Develop Bugs

[Q] WP7 is doomed to fail???

It's official! WP7 is set to launch on Oct. 11. Now, do you think WP7 will fail as some do think so? If yes, then why would it fail? If not, what are the reasons that it would NOT fail?
Personally, I don't like the way how the GUI of WP7 looks. That's my main turn-off. Also, I don't find the startscreen so useful. Everything that small (those live tiles) can't provide you sufficient info when staring the startscreen at a glance. And yes, I don't know much about it 'cause it's not even launched yet. But based on all the previous videos I've seen until now, I can say that the final version of WP7 will more or less be the same as those on the test units. So now, this is just my opinion.
Again, sum up your reason(s) why WP7 would (NOT) fail.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I have nothing against anyone who likes WP7. This is just a topic. So remember to have respect for every XDA-member!!!
AND IGNORE POST #2, MY THREAD HAS A POLL, SO IS DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME!!

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=797409

I don't think it is gonna fail. It will just lose some of its base of advanced tech-users, but bring on board far more people who have never used a smartphone before or those who are changing to WinMo from another OS.

It won't fail because it has the advantage of the iOS' closed ecosystem (meaning every app will work for every WP7 handset, while offering people hardware choices)
The main reason the people I know bought an Android device over an iOS device, was purely because they did not want to look like 75% of the population with an iPhone, and basically wanted something 'different'. Most are regretting it because they think Android, overall, just looks and feels cheap. The overall user experience and apps/games don't seem to look that good compared with iOS offerings.
While WP7 will NOT have some features like copy&paste, tethering missing, majority of consumers will hardly use it anyway (iPhone is a good example).
edit: 'NOT' in last sentence lol

I have no idea.
I think the idea that the platform will 'fail' is just silly (mostly for the stupid reasons people give) but I'm not 100% certain that it will catch on with the general public yet. I could definitely be convinced, but I'll wait until Monday for that.

Why would it fail?
I think people want it to fail because it's Microsoft and they are not Apple!!!
I for one will wait until it's released and will make up my own mind, although judging by what I have seen of it so far, it shows a lot of promise.

Brainio said:
I think people want it to fail because it's Microsoft and they are not Apple!!!
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Here on xda it's rather Google, not Apple. Being an Apple fanboy is lowly for a nerd, so local fanboys go for Google.

vangrieg said:
Here on xda it's rather Google, not Apple. Being an Apple fanboy is lowly for a nerd, so local fanboys go for Google.
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Well, it's still the same "It's Microsoft, they are evil, and everything they create sucks..." thinking.

It is doomed to fail at least for me. Having read the specs it's too similar to the IOS (the earliest versions - no copy/paste?!?) and they will be competing directly with Apple for the same market. iPhone has been and will be the user's phone (you can't do anything wrong with it simply because you can't do anything with it) and those people would never go with Microsoft. With WM7 Microsoft will loose the majority of its advanced users to Android and will gain just a few from Apple. Not because WM7 phones will be worse than iPhone, but because they can't market their product like Apple does. They almost had me believe that Apple invented videocalls... over WiFi

It's not going to fail.
The phones are good, the most important apps (except navigation) will be there and the OS is okay.
They'll need good marketing, but Microsoft can afford that.
It won't surpass Android (which simply is the better OS and has a big head start), but it will surpass the proprietary operating systems.
If WP7 becomes #2 that's a success. I definitely think it has the potential, because the market is still growing like crazy and the proprietary systems can't satisfy the demand for hardware choice, availability etc.

crow26 said:
It's not going to fail.
The phones are good, the most important apps (except navigation) will be there and the OS is okay.
They'll need good marketing, but Microsoft can afford that.
It won't surpass Android (which simply is the better OS and has a big head start), but it will surpass the proprietary operating systems.
If WP7 becomes #2 that's a success. I definitely think it has the potential, because the market is still growing like crazy and the proprietary systems can't satisfy the demand for hardware choice, availability etc.
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I believe WP7 post release progress is going to be very enthralling to follow.
I agree that the absolute essential apps are there but not that much choice of apps all together compared to the competition.
Phones are good but also the competition is good and for some reason I don't believe MS is aiming at surpassing the proprietary OSs ( Dumb-phones if got this right). I think they want to compete with Apple and Google.
The issue is that although less capable WP7 cannot get substantial developer support while its unreleased. So MS is releasing it to start a community going while they upgrade and improve on the go, post release. The catch is that the available competition is currently more attractive in general. As such I believe MS will have to somehow keep WP7 alive in its beginning stages with the potential of loss up until the moment they are on parr with the features, apps and a Market substantially large to self propel the OS.
I have my pocorn ready and I am ready to see how things go

Proprietary OSs are iOS, Blackberry, webOS. WP7 has the potential to surpass them, which would be a success (i.e. not fail).
If WP7 fails, Android will own the market similar to Windows on PCs.

Dont know about others but I intend to actually enjoy my device for what it does when I get it and not sit around pondering whether it is doomed or not. Too many people are sitting around thinking about success and failure, probably wont even get past the start screen.

I dont think it will fail, only The sd card missibg thing is ****

I believe it won't fail to the general public (Non-Smart phone people) for the simplicity and the power behind these devices.
But personally it will fail me and most of the people I know who have actually had experience with a smart phone for one simple reason, they enjoy the ability to make it theirs, unlike an Iphone and the soon to be WP7. In my opinion I think that Jobs and Gates are trying to compete to see who can have their Phones look like their MP3 players the most, in the sense of the UI.
Although I do not like the UI if there was a possibility of downgrading the UI to WM 6.5, I would jump on it But that's most likely not possible. So I'd either buy an Android phone or wait to see if you can port Android off of WP7...Either way it should be interesting to see.

So when all smartphones look like mp3 players, you prefer the crappiest cheapest looking one. That's logic.

Very good post, twitch.
@vangrieg get yourself a brain and then go to school and learn how to read.

Who cares if its got a poll
powersquad said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=797409
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tonytonitone said:
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What a pathetic guy, your are!

So, 15 vote "YES" and 36 vote "No". Temporary conclusion: roughly 1/3 of the people say WP7 will fail. So this mean WP7 surely will not surpass Google's Android mobile OS, along with the fact that Android is gaining momentum very rapidly. It's gonna be a pity for MS.

comparing wp7 to release versions of ios and android justified

I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .

I agree.
But it won't change anything.
Comparing RTM Releases is more than valid, becaue in every case the OS was so far behind what was already on the market (Android/iOS vs. WinMo/Symbian) that it wasn't even funny.
WP7 isn't anything near as far behind Android/iOS as those platforms were compared to the aformentioned upon release. It has nothing to do with hardware, either.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it

N8ter said:
I agree.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
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yes i think you have seen the post that pushed me to start this thread lol.

lumpaywk said:
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
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Yes. When both iOs and Android were introduced, they were immediately compared to everything else.
Whatever IS released on market, out of Beta and RTM - should be compared.
Whatever is sold to customer.
And trust me, that is what MS wants too. Compare and eventually win.
And very valid point - as well as Apple and Google were having DEBUTS on the market,
MS was on the market for 10 fuc....ng years.
I wait to judge finally for the first upgrade.
You know what is the thing with WP7?
It gives such a big promise it creates huge frustration for some.
I want it but only if I will not loose any of the things I need in my live.

Id be inclined to say Android left its beta stage with the release of 2.1. Before that, it didnt even support multitouch. The interface is still nowhere near that of wp7 or iphone in terms of smoothness. WP7 is way too polished to be a beta, but there are just a few things I wish it had to make it perfect. Android was launched over 2 years ago and it was a dud until verizon picked it up.. an unpolished one at that. I still dont understand why people want to use it other than verizon didnt have the iphone at the time.

OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.

being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.

palm's current OS is not their first attempt at a phone os either.
but whats the point in comparing the different OS .. if it meets your needs then its good ... if it doesn't then it needs work ...

The Gate Keeper said:
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
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Good point about it being a new brand, I think one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes is branding of Windows Phones. In my opinion they really should have tried to distance themselves from Windows Mobile as WM has a stigma associated with it seems.
But I still think there's plenty of room in the market for Windows Phone to do well. Even if sales aren't great now, I think Microsoft has a great product and if they continue to build on it I don't see why it wouldn't do well. Remember; 70% of people in the US don't own smartphones yet.
Either way, why do we need to compare this launch feature-to-feature with previous launches? Does that matter when considering a new phone? If you like the phone, buy one. If not, don't.

yeah I agree, comparing an RTM now to over 3 years ago is just inane.
They've had that time to see how to build a successful OS and they opted to use an iOS model that's closed off and tailored for people who don't want too many choices, just easy access to facebook and texting and such.
no copy/paste is pretty stupid I don't care what year it is...
but yeah, comparing an RTM now to then is a world of difference. iOS now does a lot more than WP7, and we all knew the limitations of WP7 months ago, plenty of time for MS to fix this stuff, they have no excuse.

vetvito said:
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
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How long have you used WinMo???
Really, when has that experience been anything but frustrating out of the box???

I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.

N8ter said:
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
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"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.

SMH at N8ter, yet again with the personal attacks. How about staying on topic.

N8ter said:
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
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You spoiled most of threads with hate to the people who have different views than yours, and with your forceful promotion of WP7.
Just let other's speak. Why do you flame here all the time?
We can discuss here what we don't like, can't you just accept it?
If it's too hard, just start yor won thread.

When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.

fb401 said:
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
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That's a good point.

orangekid said:
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
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I have owned a Captivate and a Focus, one is Hummingbird the other is Snapdragon. I get atleast 20% more battery life with the Focus than I did on the Captivate. I don't remember if the Captivate had a smaller battery though, the Focus is 1500mah
orangekid said:
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
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The UI on Android seems like Windows XP in a Windows 7/OSX world to me. It's not bad, but it is definitely not as "slick" or "fluid" as WP7 or iOS.
Exchange support on Android is getting better, but it is still pretty basic. Even with 3rd party apps, it is less than perfect. The 3rd party apps do not integrate contacts with the phone address book very well.
orangekid said:
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
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If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then the X10a (with generic ROM and all bloat removed) vs the WP7 devices is the best comparison to make. I have an X10a (a=North America version) and the Focus. The Focus is definitely snappier. This is on essentially equal hardware, so it appears the WP7 is more optimized than Android 2.1. I have not used 2.2 on the X10a (mostly because there is no NAND loadable version yet) so it may be more on par with 2.2.
orangekid said:
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
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To say there is no choice on anything is not 100% true. You do get to choose which live tiles to use (essentially like widgets) but you are stuck with the as-designed home screen. This is in my opinion a good decision by Microsoft. As much fun as it is to tinker with different home replacements on Android, it is not something that is good for most users. The UI should be consistent across devices so that the overall experience is consistent.
orangekid said:
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
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Agreed!
orangekid said:
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
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I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.

"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
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Maybe in some fantasy world where the only people who use smartphones are XDA forum posters.
HD2s get better battery life than Vibrants out of the box (I had both and used both for months before I sold the HD2 - actually used the HD2 more since all my media and documents were stored on it) and it has a smaller battery. There are Efficient ROMs for WinMo devices, IIRC, which give better battery life (I use only stock ROMs).
An Android handset cannot even compete with a Nokia for battery life. WP7 gives better battery life than Android.
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
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I've already said this more than twice in two different threads. I've tried saying it in different ways. I can say it in French if they want, my French is respectable...
I still don't think they'll get it, though...
These types of comparisons are made all the time.
Exchange support on Android is not *fine*. If you think it is, then you have not used an WinMo, iPhone, or Symbian phone against an Exchange server, especially on a device used for business. Exchange ActiveSync has existed for almost a decade... To have such poor support (compared to competing products) after being on the market 2 years... Well, it's terrible. TouchDown and other clients are buggy or have unacceptable workarounds for some of the shortcomings in the Android OS. They are not usable in all use cases - not to mention they're expensive as hell.
Better off just getting an N8 and buying SPB Mobile Shell. You'll get more bang for your buck, that way, IMO (due to better Business features, battery life, and support for more DRM and Media Types + offline navigation capabilities on top of a pentaband radio).
Captivate has a 1500mAh battery. Battery life on Android is worse than on other platforms. That is why Google is still trying to make improvements IRT battery life.
The user interface on Android is terrible compared to WP7 and iOS, especially when it comes to applications. Go to http://www.TweetDeck.com and compare the Android and iOS user interfaces. As far as the OS user interface... It's worse than 3rd party replacements like SPB Mobile Shell, and the reason why there's a market for this is because the Android UI is terrible. If it was "fine," then Manufacturers wouldn't spend the kind of cash and resourecs they do defacing it as if it was another version of Symbian OS or Windows Mobile.
The Sony Ericson devices probably the the most attractive Android skins on them. I was in Best Buy on Black Friday playing around with one. I didn't even know what the hell it was until I dug around in the menus, either. It was very attractive, performant, and intuitive. Unfortunately, only a minority of Android devices have this sort of user experience.

N8ter, I hope none of that was directed at me. I am in almost complete agreement with your statements.

WP7 Too little, too late.

I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.

The Windows Phone 7 team isn't that big actually. Besides, the iPhone idea began in 2005 and took 2 years to come to life.
Of course, I agree that the lack of update so far is disturbing.

They're basic things but not necessary things. My WP7 gets along much better than any iphone or android without those things but of course I dont use mine as a business device. As a media device it is second to none, I used android for 2 years and never once used c&p or put my phone on anything lower than vibrate. As for multi-tasking if apps were built the way they were supposed to be then they wouldn't need it. They have showed vodeos of how some apps were built to go back to the exact same point when hitting the back button. This is likely to keep it from running slow and becoming unresponsive. Sort of like android which is what I will always consider a "brick-phone."

Purple11 said:
It was released 4 months back
...
and now its almost 5 months since its release
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So which is it? Four or five? Oh wait, it's actually three months and a day since it was launched.
Crawl back under your rock please.

Not again
Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
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How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.

You can say somebody didn't use a search button and didn't post this in existing threads.
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
Better ask MS to push any update soon than moan about people who spend their cash and get disappointed by some MS logic.

doministry said:
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
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Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.

Something I learned about Microsoft... never underestimate them and write them off
You don't need to look further than the Xbox series for an example.

emigrating said:
Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.
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Click to collapse
This is complete lie and disgusting excuse for not improving products.
This is indeed some kind of racism.
In fact the truth is complely opposite.
As I work with very many people through the year, I can say I have my own personal survey regarding this, with "average" consumer.
Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public.
Underestimating people and treating them like mass of idiots is disgusting.
Stop this lie.

remember this is just the first release.. sure, it has taken them a long time to make it, but that doesnt mean that the time was wasted.. Im pretty impressed with the amount of speed and fluidity MS has been able to squeeze out of our 1ghz devices
considering the animations present (even android is laggy if not overclocked)
copy paste will be released as an update, which isnt a problem coz remember this is a new OS and not that many people will just dive into it on the first release.
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool

jjblaster3 said:
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man this is just wrong.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Actually, Android don't do that. Yes, they keep using RAM in background. BUT! In Linux systems RAM is not managed the way they are in Windows.
Windows = The more free memory you have, better, faster.
Linux = Doesn't matter how much free memory you have. It will run smoothly.
So Android do the same thing. Whenever you have free memory, it will keep the App running. When you need more RAM, it will decide which app is useless or less useful and close.
Battery is not affected too.
Under the hood, Android is pretty smart, actually. I just don't like the "above the hood". The widget things and editable home is useful, tough.

jjblaster3 said:
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just dumb excuse. And not true.
Symbian UIQ devices back in 2007 could multitask without any slowdown.
My computer doesn't slow down even if I heavily multitask.
There are dozens of scenarios when we need it. Becuse current solution leads to idiotic reloading/rebooting apps and processes.
The simplest is when I'm in the Facebook app and get sms and start a short sms chat. When I finnish instead of continuing what I was doing there, I have to reboot everything and go through all the process. It's a crap.
At least IE behaves normally and Word.

Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
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Click to collapse
Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.

vbetts said:
Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buhahaha! Great one.
Because it's basics!
With this kind of attitude MS has no chance to do anything with this OS.
I just hope they don't think your way.
People expect things because a very high standard is already established.
Did you live in a cave last few years?!
The same was with processor speeds, capactive screens, big cameras.
Do you release today a smartphone with a 1,3mpx camera "because you live in a different standard"? Lol, man.

To little to late? Don't make me laugh.
WP7 launches with:
- Smooth and intuitive interface.
- Microsoft Office Integration.
- Xbox Live integration
- Zune with Zune Pas integration
- Fastest growing marketplace ever
- Fastest boot time of any OS
- Windows Live Integration
- IE7 Port from Windows
- Smart Multitasking foundation with dehydrating applications
First Update for WP7 next month brings:
- C&P support
- Better memory management for faster app launch
- Drivers for newer Qualcomm chipsets
- CDMA Antenna Support
- Phone Backups on Zune
Fall Update Mango brings:
- IE9 port from Windows
- Silverlight & HTML5 support in browser
- Trident 5 Rendering Engine
- Far Eastern Language Support
- More Unspecified Features
I fail to see how an OS with such promise can be too late in a smartphone war that isn't even close to having half of the cell phone market. User bases for smartphones are expected to double within the next few years so I guess the naysayers should tell them all that they have to choose iOS, Android, or RIM devices because smaller platforms like WP7, WebOS, and MeeGO aren't allowed to compete.

With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.

JamesAllen said:
How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said, nothing to add!
doministry said:
...Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're right with that statement. Just because all the owners of a smartphone out there don't talk about the OS on their phones doesn't mean that they don't understand the topic. I mean, I know a 60 year old man who has never been interested in such things before and who isn't interested a the moment, but he does know what Android, WP7 and iOS are...
AND: WP7 has got a silent mode! Or are you too dumb to turn off the ringing?

Most of people I know using smartphones are pretty much informed about features.
They don't use forums. But they are really disappointed by many things. This applies to all OS'es.
For instance, iPhone is faulty, not solid product. Besides people carrying this like a baby, most of users have power-button **** up...... Never read about it on any tech news portal. Etc......

doministry said:
With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the NoDo update is pretty much confirmed. C&P was showed at CES. The codename was confirmed by Charlie Kindel from MS. Paul Thurrott is more than a reliable source of anything MS so I'm willing to bet he's right especially since all of the above features are supported in WCE7.

[Q] How do you feel about Wp7?

iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?

Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.

There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.

j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.

WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.

So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!

Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.

edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"

What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.

disastrous sales of wp7 ?

pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link

I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.

mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.

imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks

I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.

i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..

imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million

Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.

Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.

Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using 2010 Data
Take out employee

TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
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Click to collapse
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.

jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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Click to collapse
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).

A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/

nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
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That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.

ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
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It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?

nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...

I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.

N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
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N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.