Develop Bugs

Breaking! - winmo 7 is not based on wince at all

CASE SOLVED, GO HERE OR LOOK AT PAGE 13
NOTE: Typo in poll, CE 7.0, NOT 6.0
I was in Bett 2010, an official rep there said that winmo 7 WAS NOT BASED ON CE AT ALL!!! No more infomation was given, my source is based in an office next door to the winmo development centre, he says that there is no CE BUILD USED AT ALL!!! He didn't anything else, if this is the case, we may have a serious problem, sorry to break the bad news
Will answer any questions i can
Badwolve1

Don't mean to be harsh, and thanks for informing the community,
but... so what? if it were true, why would it be a bad thing?

Why a bad thing?
Maybe because all our programs will become a unusable piece of ce code?

jfrm said:
Why a bad thing?
Maybe because all our programs will become a unusable piece of ce code?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Cab files and all that would be a thing of the past and we'd all have to start over from square 1 and re-learn everything.
dwizzy130

How about not being able to use all those apps you may have purchased that are based on CE. (Unless of a compatibility feature/how'd that work with vista? lol) May have to wait till software developer creates new version (if they decide to port).

I seriously don't doubt that in this case there will be some compatibility functionality. It just would not make sense business-wise if microsoft didn't, so I still don't see why it's a bad thing...

Survey says....... thats a lie.
how do I know?
Simple, we would've seen OEM software i.e. HTC, LG, Samsung leak something totally unfamiliar to us.
WM7 rumors get crazier by the year.

Unless Microsoft has suddenly turned into Apple, they will provide backwards compatibility.

vetvito said:
Survey says....... thats a lie.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you in that survey.lol
dwizzy130

Badwolve1 said:
I was in Bett 2010, an official rep there said that winmo 7 WAS NOT BASED ON CE AT ALL!!! No more infomation was given, my source is based in an office next door to the winmo development centre, he says that there is no CE BUILD USED AT ALL!!! He didn't anything else, if this is the case, we may have a serious problem, sorry to break the bad news
Will answer any questions i can
Badwolve1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please, give us more information if you can. Because if that is true, then it would confirm a very interesting theory that I thought about, based on things I've heard.
So please, try to find out more! Most important, try to find out information about the next CE based version (WM6.6?).
EDIT: By the way, I think this is in the wrong forum, shouldn't it be in General?

As far as I know, WM7 will be based on CE7. That means we'll need new bootloaders etc. There's also some stuff that seems to point to CE5.2 (WM5+) code not running on the CE7 base (the CE6 Zune HD things won't run on CE5.2 and I think the reverse is true), but I heard there was an emulation layer much like the way you can run programs in XP mode on W7.

CE7
Could this be the new WM7?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq02FFo-lOI&feature=player_embedded#

Given that the memory model changed in CE6 and that WinMo 7 apparently has a HAL (http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=12103) it's likely that a lot of CE5.2 apps won't run on WinMo 7
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if apps built in .NET CF can simply be recompiled to run on WinMo 7 - it would be very unlike Microsoft to not provide some sort of backwards compatibility

Ut0p1a said:
Could this be the new WM7?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq02FFo-lOI&feature=player_embedded#
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats Schaps project. He has been working on it for a while, and looks like he is back...!

Ut0p1a said:
Could this be the new WM7?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq02FFo-lOI&feature=player_embedded#
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411836

Theres a wm7 wince 5.2 bsp thats all i can say =]

Badwolve1 said:
I was in Bett 2010, an official rep there said that winmo 7 WAS NOT BASED ON CE AT ALL!!! No more infomation was given, my source is based in an office next door to the winmo development centre, he says that there is no CE BUILD USED AT ALL!!! He didn't anything else, if this is the case, we may have a serious problem, sorry to break the bad news
Will answer any questions i can
Badwolve1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't be true at all. The major advantage MS currently has in mobile segment is its vast application base. MS won't like commit a suicide by deciding to make WM7 not backward compatible.
WinCE has been around since ages now, by dumping WinCE, MS will lose it's market share in mobile/embedded devices sector. And if they are continuing with WinCE, then why not using it in their mobile OS, instead of creating a new kernel from the scratch.
Unless MS has decided to make PC and Mobile software compatible to each other natively.

Intresting...but I am calling it fake news..

the0ne said:
Intresting...but I am calling it fake news..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
This shouldn't be called news unless it is really news! it can be called a rumor at best
WM7 is still a mystery, i have heared it will be based on Silverlight but who knows! i know MVPs who don't know anything about it. MS is NOT and i repeat NOT allowing anything to be leaked!
30 days 4 hours 4 minutes left till Windows Mobile 7.
http://msmobiles.com/wm7.php

anaadoul said:
+1
This shouldn't be called news unless it is really news! it can be called a rumor at best
WM7 is still a mystery, i have heared it will be based on Silverlight but who knows! i know MVPs who don't know anything about it. MS is NOT and i repeat NOT allowing anything to be leaked!
30 days 4 hours 4 minutes left till Windows Mobile 7.
http://msmobiles.com/wm7.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look here:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/8902.html
dwizzy130

Game over, Microsoft said HD2 is not upgradeable to WP7S

http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
Owners of HTC’s highly-praised HD2 touchscreen smartphone will be unable to upgrade the device to Microsoft’s new Windows Phone 7 software when the OS is released towards the end of the year.
Despite the HD2 meeting many of the criteria laid down in Microsoft’s ‘Chassis 1’ spec – including a 1GHz Qualcomm processor, high-res capacitive touch display, 5 megapixel camera and 3.5mm headphone jack – the phone will be ruled out for the simple reason that it has five buttons instead of the three mandated for all Windows Phone 7 devices.
That’s the official line from Microsoft, at any rate. Natasha Kwan, General Manager for Microsoft’s Mobile Communications Business in the Asia-Pacific region, told APC that the HD2 “doesn’t qualify because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
And there is still hope this will be negated on the next MIX10 .... Microsoft will say "That's not true, HD2 is upgradeable to WP7S and here is the beta ROM you can put and test"

This .. its just... don't have words 4 this..
Now its all up to the devs..

That well and truly Sux ....
But i have very little to worry about
We're at XDA's !!!!!!!!

gogol said:
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.

I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?

Hmm, there's some more stuff in the linked article that the original poster doesn't quote:
There could be more to this than just the sin of having two buttons too many, however: Tony Wilkinson, Business Operations Director for Microsoft Australia, told APC that “there are some hardware components that the HD doesn’t have”.
We’re not sure what those are because Microsoft has not revealed its complete recipe for Windows Phone 7 devices – that’s due to take place at this month’s MIX developer conference in Las Vegas – but we’ve heard that a pixel-pushing graphics chip might be on the checklist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming that it's not just a matter of buttons, I'd say that makes even an unofficial HD2 port a bit less likely, but we'll see.

Completely understood.
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
There are many amazing things which were unthinkable done by XDA devs here. They just too many to mention here ... HTC Kaiser missing drivers, WM6.5 on <insert HTC devices>, Android on WM, etc.
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Ruudfood said:
I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
gogol said:
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
gogol said:
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.

I bet the "5 buttons" reason is a bad excuse to not having to reveal more info prior to MIX.
My guess that this reason is BS because of the announcement of LG's first WP7 phone, this is taken from the article about it on neowin:
The device sports a QWERTY slide-out keyboard as well as a touch screen and the three standard Windows Phone 7 prescribed buttons: back, home and search. Other buttons include power, camera and volume controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source:
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-reveals-first-windows-phone-7-series-handset-from-lg
Obviously this phone has more buttons than the HD2 and will be running WP7.

Shasarak said:
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No comment on this he he he
Shasarak said:
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct, but I also said:
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
What I mean with hope is for "current owner" of HD2
Shasarak said:
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fully understand. But do you think all the hardware components would be exactly different?
Learning from past experience, most if not all past devices still have the same hardware components. That's why XDA can still port WM6.5 to some of old devices.
Why would suddenly the hardware is now totally differents?
Even if it is new hardware component, I would think it will be backward compatible with the old hardware.
Well, it could be that the new OS requires to use "new drivers format" for that "old hardware" (HD2) ...
That is quite obvious.
So, either the new WP7S devices are still using most the same hardware components, which means the WP7S drivers will be somehow backward compatible with old hardware.
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?

I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
gogol said:
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.

reverse-engineering drivers? just look at the problems present in android-development... ^^ the problem is you need exact (!) specifications of the hardware to start with - and that's closed-source. even after that it's not easy.
but even IF some magician would pull this off, i have learned one thing with the x1: not having an official firmware adapted to the OS you want to use deprives you of a stable base, it will always be patchwork at best. (and i'm talking 6.1 -> 6.5 here, where the difference isn't that big)

I was going to buy a touch hd2 for 425 off craigslist with the complete idea that this phone would be wp7s. Seeing that it won't has left me stay with my reliable tp2...
its a shame actually I wanted the hd2 to be wp7s for obvious reasons

If this is true I will sell my hd2 soon!
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Then the "russian twitter" thing was only marketing to sell a phone with dead OS..
But I still don't realy believe this.. windows [email protected] told that "there 'may' be information next month".. well it is " next month" but the hd2 wasnt mentioned directly as far as I can see..
Cheers

If the buttons are the culprit, I bet the problem isn't the extra buttons, but lack of the Search button. Sure the Home one could be remapped, but what about consistency, ease of use for consumers etc.?

Blade0rz said:
I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it looks like nothing is set in stone yet:
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010...-because-of-hardware-buttons-dont-be-so-sure/

chris5932 said:
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.

I'm not giving up hope yet though. They've already announced the button requirement. If the HD2 was going to be disqualified for this reason why not say so? I don't think this is over. She's all the way on the other side of the planet from Redmond and most likely less 'in the know' just for this reason. Just this Saturday a much more knowledgeable MS rep said 'Wait for MIX' in regards to the HD2 getting an upgrade.
The statement leads me to believe that the MS rep in a far flung region is just interpreting the 3 button requirement to automatically mean that MS won't allow any current devices to get the upgrade and not them having actual info that the HD2 will specifically not get the upgrade. That and MS will need to get some sort of hardware in devs hands before official availability. An emulator is nice and all but real hardware is key. The HD2 is supposedly launching here in the States right after MIX. Coincidence? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but fingers crossed nonetheless.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're making some assumptions that aren't fair to make at this point in time. If the hardware is nearly identical to the HD2 (which it will be) why would it need an entirely new bootloader as compared to other WP7 devices? #2 (and therefore 3 as well) doesn't even make sense as they're developing this on CE. It's not like they're going to change CE versions mid-dev. The driver architecture won't change. MS has stated that they're doing all the driver dev, not the OEMs. As long as the HD2 matches the chassis specs, there's no reason it will need different drivers. The only thing that concerns me is the bootloader as it's my understanding that it's unique per device and likely a WM6 bootloader won't be able to boot WP7.

Shasarak said:
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I agree with most ppl here.. lets just wait til MIX..
There are severall things said that fight each other!
MS:"info for hd2 may next month","no upgrade for WinM 6.X phones"
HTC:"HD2 is able to run WP7's",
HTC twitter:"HD2 will get an upgrade" ..
I think the chances are still as before the article but make ur own guess.
Cheers

I wonder if microsoft is using some sort of qualcomm system on chip like there new MSM7x30 soc. As microsoft is only letting snapdragon devices, im sure they have a certain gpu that they have to use so the performance is the same on all handsets. so a SOC would make sense and that might be why the hd2 does not meet the specs.
Also i dont think the hd2 has 4 point multi touch.
Also i think microsoft wont let them upgrade as they wont 3 buttons only on the front so to let the hd2 have a upgrade on to wm7 makes a mockery of wm7 requirements.

CE6 or CE7?

There still seems to be some disagreement as to whether WP7 is based on Windows CE 6 or CE 7. Any chance of a definitive answer?

CE7
10 chars limit

As Engadget once heard from a Microsoft interview, WP7S is based on the same core as the Zune HD (CE6). Plus CE7 isn't even released yet, which means that it wasn't available for use in WP7S last year, when development began. This is just what I've heard.

You see what I mean about disagreement.

Shasarak said:
You see what I mean about disagreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol im 99% sure its CE7 i think i seen it somewhere on a wp7 dev site or blog ill look for it tho..give me a sec im bout to leave

CE6 r3, same as the Zune HD.
Microsoft will not build a new product without using a stable base.

No, it's CE70 I am sure 100%.

so did you make up your minds?!

Morpheus Phreak said:
Microsoft will not build a new product without using a stable base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What qualifies something as "stable"?

Based on past history, MS has released a version of CE long before using it in the Windows Mobile/Windows Phone line. So based on that fact and a lot of reading I've done, I think it's CE 6.0 R3 like the Zune HD. But until Microsoft says it, there's no way to know for sure. Perhaps it's an evolution of CE 6.0 (R4?) and they are going to call it CE7. Who knows.

chambo622 said:
Perhaps it's an evolution of CE 6.0 (R4?) and they are going to call it CE7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like how they called NT 6.1 "Windows 7"?
; )

Spike15 said:
Like how they called NT 6.1 "Windows 7"?
; )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure But I love Windows 7, they can call it whatever they want. WP7S, not so much (yet).

nvm It's based on the Windows CE 6 kernel according to engadet in the basic facts section...guess i was wrong
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/18/windows-phone-7-series-the-complete-guide/

Cotulla said:
No, it's CE70 I am sure 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not necessarily doubting you, but could you cite some sources to back that up?

Mozilla seems to think its running on CE6

I've added a poll so we can try and establish the facts democratically. (rotfl)

Ganondolf said:
Mozilla seems to think its running on CE6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah they thought so when they informed people that they are working on firefox mobile for next generation which they said was based on CE6 but now they are saying that WM is no good and they are focusing on other platforms.
So I think that after many rumours that WM7 is CE6 they believed it and decided to start developing proper version even before official premier of new windows phone and now they learned something is not how they thought it would be so they're unhappy about it.
I would say it is based on CE7. Why? Because some time ago Da_G confirmed that WM7 is based on CE7 for a long time already and I believe his words. Besides just because they haven't released CE7 doesn't mean it can't be used for WP7. For all its worth they could be both developed simultaneously...

If their products are any indication, Mozilla Foundation don't know squat about mobile systems.

Wishmaster89 said:
So I think that after many rumours that WM7 is CE6 they believed it and decided to start developing proper version even before official premier of new windows phone and now they learned something is not how they thought it would be so they're unhappy about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stopped developing for WM because windows phone 7 will not allow native code for third-party-studios. That has nothing to do with ce though.

TheGoD said:
The stopped developing for WM because windows phone 7 will not allow native code for third-party-studios. That has nothing to do with ce though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah you're right but my point was that they thought that next windows will be based on CE6(this is something they said 8 months ago) and they developed for it but now they learned that WP7 is completely different from what they expected and it doesn't allow native code.
So yes it has something to do with CE cause as I said Da_G confirmed that WM7(internal name for windows phone that you can find in emulator) is based on CE7 and that was almost a year ago...

backwords compatible?

Hey Guys,
just starting a new threat to look for info and ideas about the next subject:
I am going to get a new phone in the next few months. Probable looking for an HTC with WP7.
I dont know if I will like it and I am wondering if these new phones could be flashed back to WM6.5.
Of course I would be willing to help with all kinds of WP7 ideas an tests, even though I am not a developper myself.
So, the statement for the new threat:
--Would it be possible/worhty to make 6.5 roms for WP7 hardware?--

Possible, sure. Likely, no. WM6.5 is, for most intents and purposes, dead. Highly unlikely that anyone puts in the time and effort needed to hack the bootloader, etc of specific devices in order to backport the old OS.

Sander101077 said:
Hey Guys,
just starting a new threat to look for info and ideas about the next subject:
I am going to get a new phone in the next few months. Probable looking for an HTC with WP7.
I dont know if I will like it and I am wondering if these new phones could be flashed back to WM6.5.
Of course I would be willing to help with all kinds of WP7 ideas an tests, even though I am not a developper myself.
So, the statement for the new threat:
--Would it be possible/worhty to make 6.5 roms for WP7 hardware?--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think u can buy a 6.5phone now

If you're looking for backwards compatibility Windows Embedded Handheld 7 (based on WM6.x) is scheduled for the second half of 2011.

I've been following the conversations backstage and I don't think WM6.5 is dead at all. WP7 has a lot of shortcomings when it comes to business use. No copy/paste, less customization, etc. In fact, it is a dumb smartphone which is more geared for the iphone type consumer...those who would gladly trade endless customization and features for simplicity. Those who look at phones as fashion accessories and toys rather than something designed to get work done more efficiently. Sadly, the market for this is much much larger than the market for serious smart devices. Steve Jobs figured this out which is why the iphone is such a big hit, but most of us here have been looking at these folks going "wow, you can copy/paste now? Neat. I've been doing that for years!".
I had a list at one point which detailed all the things that WP7 does NOT do that 6.5 does and I can tell you that enterprise customers will not accept WP7 as a replacement to WM6.x. Many large companies out here are Microsoft partners with exchange servers, sharepoint, Office suitefor all employees and as a matter of IT support, they only support Windows Mobile so that their IT departments only have to manage MS products. If hey were to cut off SM6.x entirely while rolling out WP7, purchasing departments across the country would make a huge shift to blackberry. I'm certain that this is why RIM decided to go forward with plans for a new OS and why HP purchased Palm with their WebOS. They are both counting on MS doing this.
However, through conversations with various insiders at MS, it appears these fears are unfounded. Windows 6.5 is expected to continue being developed even into next year with possible future upgrades to the OS itself. WP7 will not support skins such as the HTC Sense interface, and because of the business users with business devices - particularly full qwerty devices like the Treo, Glisten, etc - they do expect to continue development.
I have heard rumors that there is actually a long development cycle planned for WM which involves the next iteration of Windows Mobile which will be renamed Windows 7 Professional. This would be in line with MS and their way of doing things and matches up nicely with Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7. I don't know how much of this part is true and how much is just rumors floating around backstage, but it makes a lot of sense.

kfreels said:
I've been following the conversations backstage and I don't think WM6.5 is dead at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..not dead....dying. The next iteration of 'WM' is BASED on 6.5.x and then in 2011 a version (based on WP7) with XNA and silverlight support is due.
Here's some info on the next 'WM' release....~note...this is not a 'WP' release so doesn't fall under the 'Windows Phone' umbrella, it's a new version of Windows Mobile - Embedded and it;s backwards compatible.
http://www.fiercemobilecontent.com/press-releases/microsoft-outlines-commitment-future-enterprise-handheld-devices
..also mentioned here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6917106&posted=1#post6917106

Moving to General .
I will delete this post with in a week or two, so it doesn't clutter.

kfreels said:
WP7 has a lot of shortcomings when it comes to business use. No copy/paste.
Click to expand...
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God, I'm so tired of hearing this. There will be copy&paste, they said it often enough...
I had a list at one point which detailed all the things that WP7 does NOT do that 6.5 does and I can tell you that enterprise customers will not accept WP7 as a replacement to WM6.x. Many large companies out here are Microsoft partners with exchange servers, sharepoint, Office suitefor all employees and as a matter of IT support, they only support Windows Mobile so that their IT departments only have to manage MS products.
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All the products you name (Office, Sharepoint, Exchange) are natively supported by WP7. Have you seen ANY WP7 demo video lately?

Gee thanks

No upgrade to WP8, even though WP8's core will support a much wider variety of devices from low to high end. Even though it supports the same screen resolution etc etc.
Wasted 200$ on a dev account and a dead-end phone with a programming API that's now obsolete. I think I'll stick to desktop programming from now on

Don't worry, Someone always comes along and develops a hack, At some stage there will be WP8 running on WP7 hardware, People used to think WP7 on the HD2 was a pipe dream and moaned because of no update from WM 6.5, Anything is possible on here thanks to the hardworking Devs

AndyFZ1S said:
Don't worry, Someone always comes along and develops a hack, At some stage there will be WP8 running on WP7 hardware, People used to think WP7 on the HD2 was a pipe dream and moaned because of no update from WM 6.5, Anything is possible on here thanks to the hardworking Devs
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Thats not the point.... Ive been purchasing windows phone 7 devices for my work over a year now, thinking MS wont screw us over for a third time.
Mind you should have know they did the same with wm2003 to wm5 to wm6 now wp7 to wp8.
Tomorrow im gonna be pulling WP7 devices from our internal pages.
I feel sorry for all those poor people that just got the Lumia 900, i can be seeing loads of returns in the next couple of days. No point in keeping a device for 6 months then have people stop developing apps as they will be moving to wp8. At least wp7.5 apps will run on wp8 geeee thanks a bunch.
THANK YOU FOR SCREWING US OVER AGAIN MS.

Hopefully this is true.
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/06/20/w...siasts-btw-this-is-a-wp8-lumia-already-right/

how on earth does that page twist this
Microsoft today said that it plans to make Windows Phone 8 available to users who want to install it on their Windows Phone devices, even if their carrier and/or device manufacturer won't officially support the update. Specifically, this will apply to Windows Phone 8 devices only. So if a given WP8 device is not being updated by the carrier/manufacturer in an timely manner, Microsoft will provide an unapproved version of WP8 to those who don't want to wait for official updates/builds. Microsoft said the offering is meant to help appease enthusiasts and developers. Microsoft has yet to decide exactly how it will distribute the platform to such enthusiasts, and has not yet set guidelines for how the program will work. Microsoft said more details about the program will become available in the coming months. This update program does not apply to Windows Phone 7/7.5
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to
For current Lumia owners, if you’re an enthusiast, you won’t have to wait for WP7.8 which brings in the new homescreen and some other WP8 features.
You can apparently get WP8 unofficially.
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Microsoft said nothing of that sort. What they are talking about is allowing wp8 users to get updates without their carrier (unlike 7series)

So many duplicate threads!
Sorry guys, please continue this discussion in one of the others.
Closed.