Develop Bugs

Windows Phone 7... WTF

Anyone seen the article at PPCGeeks.com about Windows Phone 7??
I cant believe the crap Microsoft is trying to pull...
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive”
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like I will be making my next phone purchase based on WinMo6 and Android... Prob wont ever go to WinMo7...

i wouldnt believe any rumors that come out until microsoft confirms it. there have been so many different rumors from respectable sources and they all contradict each other. who to believe? no one

I don't want an iPhone from my Windows phone!

lol. I may use Android but I was looking at WM and thinking "That is a way better work phone than a Blackberry." but after reading those new rumors I am starting to doubt that.
I hope they are wrong since we don't need another iFail on the market but I can tell you one thing. HTC won't stand for that. They will mask all the ugly with their gorgeous HTC SENSE.

Yes but if u read that
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? I think we will see, because HD2 is running with sense, and i don't thing that official update to WM 7 will be something like that.

Oh whatever!...
honestly, why are you surprised?
Look at the success of the other companies and OS's who use similar strategies.
Lock down the device = enhanced and specific support for hardware, and etc., specifically hardware.
ZuneHD is a perfect example. I thought about getting one (for about 5 minutes) because of that sweet'n'sexy little tegra chip. MS couldn't have made that run as smooth & efficiently on a CE5.x base.
I will probably not get one of these phones either (unless they've not leaked some amazing feature like a free MS Surface Table with purchase of every WinPhone7, haha).
Though, I do wish MS the best of luck trying to deliver Proprietary content and software in a prettier way than Apple. I mean lets face it: Apple tends to slap handcuffs on it's customers and they still wanna dance. Hope MS's mobile department has been talking to the Xbox360's marketing Dept.

-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the many things I love about my phone is that I can change interfaces, get unique interfaces, and duplicate other phone's interfaces. lets hope this is only one version of Windows 7. It looks they are taking the iphone direction - make the phone idiot proof and lock it down

Haha sounds like someone is making fun of us and posts all that sucks on the iPhone OS:
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not
enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.

WM7
Hmm.. I see Microsoft Iphone

Well if that is true then I will be staying with winmo 6.1/6.5 and Android forever The HD2 is such a powerful beast, I hope Android will be fully ported to it...
Imagine dual booting WM6.5 & Android on the HD2 with it's powerful cpu & large clear capacitive screen!! Then WinMO 7 can go and die a slow death, I wouldn't care

UGH
I fear the future also, as many do. (of the wm os) Microsoft ~ Windows Mobile has a niche for getting things wrong pretty much all the time. I read a rather creditable article that the new sync software was to be the Zune software? WTF my Zune syncs wrong almost all the time especially this last time and the other last time...UGH I fear the future of Windows Mobile and hope they get there heads out of there A$$ and step it up. I've had to call Zune support multiple times and also have to yet to date. (again ugh)
~Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.....?????
~DJyoSNOW~
~PLUR~ Peace Love Unity Respect

If it becomes true, then I will stick on WM 6.5 on the HD2. However, things may change, it could be fake, it could be hackable.

this looks fake... in fact i agree that someone listed all the things that suck on the iphone and wrote "windows phone 7" all over it.
these points look like from an US-centered point of view. i mean - marketplace?! it's crap all over the world and nearly empty, EXCEPT in the US. zune?! it has been released only where? exactly, again the US.
no OEM-gui allowed? if that were to be true, htc would've already announced to stop making winmo-phones.
nah, this is fake...

Just a Rumor
We still need to wait and see, this is a rumor. I think most people on here would not stand for an Iphone like OS and would move to android instead if Windows did that. I kinda believe they will have a duel os model and this description would fit the model for the media targeted devices. A professional-like version would keep alot of what we love alive and give us some of what we are hoping for.

Look what Apple did and how successful they are with those iPhone and iPod Touch.
But I doubt it is true, those rumors are (at least half of them) fake .

omg!!! no multi-task..

I don't think Microsoft will do this.
They must be crazy to.. If they do this, the 'enthusiast' users (the people currently still holding up Windows Mobile on their hands) will drop the new OS and MS would have to start all over again. Why would users choose for their OS while there are no advantages any longer?
Maybe this is the spec of some limited media/Zune version of the OS, not the PRO version, if these are actually true.
Might aswell be some bashing done by an iPhone/Andoid fanboy that got picked up further down the pipe.

I don't believe all of it. I think those are just rumors from the anti-MS people.
If MS ever wanted to make Windows to be like a MAC OS, they would have done it long ago. I don't think they will do such thing in the Mobile branch neither.
I would think(hope) it will be something like:
Windows Phone = Windows 7 Home (for the grandpas)
Windows Phone Pro = Windows 7 Ultimate/Pro (for the enthusiasts/geeks)

i doubt that there is not going to be any Multi-Tasking. thats what "Windows" is all about. probably all BS

OndraSter said:
Look what Apple did and how successful they are with those iPhone and iPod Touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, but just take a look why ppl are still sticking with the pretty outdated windows mobile. Because of an open system, not this closed sh*t. Seriously, why should anybody pick Windows Mobile 7 with the same shortcomings as the iPhone, when the iPhone got perfected for 4 years prior to the new MS OS ... with a whole more of useful apps.
But since android is a nice alternative with lots of customization-options and multitasking, I don't really care about MS f*cking up Windows Mobile 7. Would be nice if they didn't though ...

Microsoft to WinMo 6.5 devices: You want WinPho 7? You can’t handle WinPho 7!

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Earlier this week we told you guys that Windows Mobile 6.5 was going to stick around after Windows Phone 7 hits the masses. It would even take on a new name — Windows Phone Classic. With everyone sticking around and playing nice at this party, you’d think that maybe current WinMo 6.5 handsets might get a little Windows Phone 7 love. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Microsoft Mobile Communications Business Director Aaron Woodman told CNET Asia, “I don’t know if any Windows Mobile 6.5 device today meets those specifications.” It sounds like your average Microsoft move: if you want the new software, you’ll also have to get new hardware because your old junk just isn’t gonna cut it, baby.
The new handsets are getting primo parts such as Qualcomm’s 1GHz Snapdragon processor (no Tegra, sorry). WinPho 7, being a fresh OS and more intensive than its predecessors, will undoubtedly need hardware resources that most 6.5 devices just don’t have, but don’t fret. Unlike everyone staying on Windows XP when Vista came out, upgrading to WinPho 7 out of WinMo 6.5 is definitely a move in the right direction. WinMo 6.5 is going to stick around for enterprise and developing countries, so unless you’re tied to the OS for those reasons, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind ditching your current 6.5 handset for a shiny new WinPho 7 device when it comes out.
​

Q&A: Microsoft on Windows Phone 7 Series
CNET Asia
BARCELONA--You didn't hear? Microsoft has at long last announced the Windows Phone 7 Series at Mobile World Congress. Forget whatever impressions you have of the current Windows Mobile operating system as the new 7 Series is unlike anything we've seen. The user interface has been completely reworked to feature live tiles, panoramic screens and enhanced gaming and music experiences. Microsoft knew it had to deliver something with pow at the annual mobile tradeshow, and it did deliver. While the first devices aren't expected until the year-end holiday season, there's still a lot to know about the new software.
The new Windows Phone 7 Series interface looks nothing like its predecessors'.
We sat down with the director of Mobile Communications Business, Aaron Woodman, the general manager for Asia in the Mobile Communications Business, Natasha Kwan, and the head of Mobile Services, Manish Ladha, to discuss everything, from the software to hardware and services.
Windows Phone 7 Series
What is the Windows Phone 7 Series and is there a particular significance with the number 7 or the new naming convention? Do you think the new name will confuse users?
Woodman: There were four big pieces of news yesterday [Monday]. The biggest was Windows Phone 7 Series and all the changes in the product around smart designs, integrated experiences and the Windows Phone hubs. The second was we brought Xbox Live and Zune to Windows Phone for the first time and we will take that internationally. The third was about a specific set of partners, mobile operators and OEMs that have committed to be early launch partners. The last piece of news was on the Q4 holiday time frame launch in time for the seasonal push.
We started changing the brand strategy with Windows Mobile (WM) 6.5. We announced the new brand as Windows Phone and the OS will remain consistent in terms of naming structure, which is Windows Mobile 6.5. That actually was significant for us because it was really the first time we wanted to market software directly to consumers. So we started Windows Phone and we really shipped two products--MyPhone and Windows Marketplace--which helped us start to have a direct relationship with the customer. That was a big step because prior to that, we simply shipped the operating system, while the OEMs and mobile operators had a relationship with the customer. So WM6.5 was a very small incremental step to start that process.
Windows Phone 7 Series is us front center trying to interact with the customers to solve their needs and ultimately taking accountability. I don't think it's confusing. I think it's a change. There are a lot of changes and this is just one of many. In terms of 7, there is no particular significance around 7. There is particular emphasis on Series knowing that we're going to have a selection of phones running a single version of the product.
What took Microsoft so long to publicly announce Windows Phone 7 Series?
Aaron Woodman: I don't know whether I would say it took us so long to announce it. We started to see a pretty significant change in the market place three or four years ago and that was driven by three things. The first was customer expectations. Customers have changed pretty dramatically over the last few years. If you looked at the prices of phones and data plans in the late 1990s and early 2000s, it was the businesses that could afford those. There wasn't a lot of end-consumers out there and usage of the product.
The second was technology--what was fundamentally possible on the device and at what price points. We started to see processors, chipsets and price points of data plans come down pretty dramatically. The third was competition. There are two types of competitors. Vertical competitors are people who have the ability to achieve quality entirely because they have the software and can achieve economies of scale to drive down component prices. And also people integrating data.
These three things came together at a time which brought a lot of emphasis on how we had to change to be competitive. That change started over two years ago with a shift in leadership. The result was a strategy behind the 7 Series. There are not a lot of companies that have the ability to step back from what I would argue was a successful strategy in the mobile phone space. Today, we still sell a ton of phones.
So I don't feel late with it. I always wished I had more innovations sooner, but I think we definitely stepped back, took our time and were willing to make some pretty dramatic changes.
Dramatic it is, since the interface is unlike anything we've seen before. But how do you intend to keep up with the competition since the first devices on the new OS aren't expected until Q4 2010?
Woodman: I think we have a very unique perspective on the business. What we've seen is that most of our competition focuses on just bringing applications to the forefront. They use a very classic design language that we pioneered with a lot of our work on the desktop. Our perspective puts us into a different place because we focus much more on the customer end of the tasks and the ability to complete what you want to do. We fully expect apps to participate in that new design language. That perspective, I would argue, is quite unique to the marketplace today, and that's what results in such a different look and feel of the product. And then we brought some differentiation that I would argue most phone or phone software providers simply don't have. Xbox Live is a social game backbone with a community of over 23 million. That's not something Nokia and Apple has. They need to have a partner to do that and that makes it more difficult to do deep integration.
I would also argue that the search engine and data behind that allows us to do a very unique implementation of things like maps, search and results. If you look at the competition, there is only one provider which has that same product and that's Google. If you look at the music space, we have the PC desktop software and the ability to think about the rich integration between the PC and the phone, and the only one that kind of does that today is Apple. If you start to add these pieces together, you can identify unique competitors like MyPhone, MobileMe and Ovi. As a whole , there are very few people who have these assets. What I can say about our competitors is that they are very respectful and have great products, but I feel very good about my ability to differentiate both in the short and long term.
Why would anyone want to buy a 7 Series device over an iPhone, Android, Nokia or a BlackBerry?
Woodman: I think there are two reasons, and probably the biggest reason is that people will be drawn to the design. I really do think that's the case when you start focusing on things like the task rather than the applications. I think people will be drawn to the fact that they are able to see their information quickly, easily and in a readable fashion. Also, we thought about the design in terms of the motion and transitions where you see things fly in and out in a very dynamic fashion.
The second thing people will be drawn to is the idea of taking the most common tasks and bringing them together. People are a great example where today you really get fragmented in the people experience. And we start to see some people do some very, very lightweight integration of social networking. We think we are going to deliver that in a way that is going to be quite unique.
What operating system does Windows Phone 7 Series run on? Is there a name for it?
Woodman: There's product brand and product line. The brand is Windows Phone and Windows Phone 7 Series is the product line. The OS will be Windows Phone OS 7.
Are the codes different from the current CE codes?
Woodman: Yes, all the software was revisited when we built Windows Phone 7 Series. Nobody felt like an incremental change was going to get us to a point where we felt we would be competitive over the next several years. Across the board, I don't think anyone felt restrained to stay inside our current development model. We'll come back again and talk about that at MIX (a Microsoft Web design/development event) in March.
How can manufacturers differentiate their products?
Aaron Woodman: You'll see mobile operators and OEMs bring differentiation into the software experience through unique access to some tools. That said, you won't see any user experience on top of Windows Phone 7 Series. You won't see any skinning and those sort of things. There is so much fragmentation where the ecosystem is kind of butting heads against the same innovation. You won't see any opportunity for any OEM or third-party app developer to take over the user experience.
Hardware
What has Microsoft done since the acquisition of Danger? Are there any developments on that front and what are the company's plans for Danger?
Woodman: What I will tell you is that the number one thing we got from Danger is really about people and their expertise in the mobile phone space. You'll see a lot of benefits here as we start to think about how to structure hardware and work with hardware partners.
Can you give a straight answer on whether Microsoft will release a consumer phone line?
Woodman: Just answer this straight? [Exasperated laughter] The answer is, I don't really know. And the reason I don't know is we have mobile as a strategy as a company and I will tell you the company is not aggressive in that marketplace. If we felt like there was an opportunity to do something really compelling and different, we would do it. That said, Microsoft has a partner-driven model and we believe in the benefits of partnerships.
What are the hardware specifications Microsoft is laying out for OEMs?
Woodman: We will provide the OS primarily to software developers in March. Every 7 Series device will have a Qualcomm chip. It will be touch-based. There won't be any non-touch, but that's not saying there won't be any keyboard devices, so they will all be touch and capacitive. There is a single aspect ratio. It will have Wi-Fi and GPS and other services which we will talk about soon.
Can the users of the current Windows Mobile software upgrade to the new one when it comes out?
Woodman: I don't know if any Windows Mobile 6.5 device today meets those specifications.
How many 7 Series devices can users expect this year?
Woodman: A billion! No, I don't know. You saw the announcement of the OEMs and it's really up to them in terms of how many devices they release in the different markets.
Windows Mobile 6.x
What happens now to Windows Mobile 6.5, or even 6.5.3? Are you going to completely phase out the current WinMo or will it continue with a different proposition?
Woodman: We don't have a specific timeline for Windows Mobile 6.5. It still has a lot of demand and value for both OEMs and customers today. The reality is that demand will determine the lifespan of Windows Mobile 6.5. So as long as OEMs and customers find value there, we'll continue to support and sell the product.
Are there going to be new devices coming out this year?
Kwan: Yes. When we announced Windows Mobile 6.5 in October last year, we said we will continue to have updates. WM6.5.3 is an update in terms of added feature functionality. In the WM6 platform, there were a lot of legacy applications that were written with the stylus in mind. So we have the magnifier to enhance the touch experience for these apps. We also anticipate 14 new devices out in Asia in the next six months.
Are the target user groups of Windows Mobile 6.5, 6.5.3 and Windows Phone 7 Series different?
Kwan: The target audience is similar. Internally, we call it the life maximizer, but that's really about the 23-35 age group. We are talking about a group of people who are actually quite settled in what they do. They are confident people. They have a lot of priorities to juggle at work and in personal lives. Yet, they also want their phone to be able to help them obtain information to make their decision.
With Windows Phone 7 Series, we have built the OS from the ground up. We really want to take a lot of accountability in the user experience. We want to ensure that we build greater quality and consistency with the phone and have an integrated experience. For WM6.5, it is going to be the platform where we allow OEM partners to continue to have their unique user interfaces. It is also a platform today where a lot of enterprise business apps are being built. More and more, we are seeing that the phone is critical for a lot of these enterprise apps. That's where WM6.5 continues to hold a lot of strength in a managed enterprise environment.
Services
Will the entire suite of Live services be available on Windows Phone 7 Series?
Ladha: We will continue to provide the existing experience even as we go into the 7 Series. It's not really classified as Windows Live, but within the People Hub, there will be updates coming from Windows Live or Facebook. Essentially, it's getting all your communication in one place.
Will there be Live services specific to 7 Series?
Ladha: Xbox Live and Zune are new to Windows Phone 7 Series. On WM6.5, you have Marketplace and MyPhone, and that will continue on for the 7 Series.
...

...
What kind of gaming experience can users look forward to on the 7 Series devices? And what do developers have to look out for?
Ladha: That's still evolving and we will be discussing that in the next conference. You can see your avatars on your Windows Phones. You will get the same experience as on the Xbox, but this question of which games and to what extent is still being defined.
Assuming I have an Xbox and some games, do I have to repurchase the games to play on the handset?
Ladha: The actual mechanics in terms of which games and the payment process will be disclosed at a later stage.
Which version of the IE browser is it?
Ladha: The IE browser on the 7 Series is not really IE7 or IE8 from the PC but is built specifically for the mobile device. Previously, on WM6.5, we had Pocket IE, so it's an evolution of that. But it also has a lot of elements from the IE7 and IE8 in terms of the experience.
What is the name of this IE browser?
Ladha: We are not disclosing that right now.
It was said during the press conference that every 7 Series device is a Zune. Does that mean there won't be anymore dedicated Zune media players?
Ladha: We won't be commenting on that right now. Each and every 7 Series device will have the entire Zune experience in terms of playback and user interface currently available on the Zune HD.
What's the portfolio of Live services?
Ladha: Hotmail, Messenger and Photos are the more popular ones. There's also Spaces, but it's not that prominent. SkyDrive is a very popular service on the PC. However, we have a similar service which is called MyPhone.
It seems there's some duplication of services. Does Microsoft plan to combine them moving forward?
Ladha: I won't call it duplication of features. It's just that on the phone, there is no Windows Live SkyDrive for mobile. Instead, it's MyPhone. So it's ultimately performing the same actions.

my opinion
just microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.

Sina™ said:
my opinion
microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and that will only work with the help of those users who wana change from iphone or symbian and move to winmo7. i doubt power users of android and winmo 6.5.x will prefer much of this new limited environment of winmo7.
with what they think they r providing will be gr8 for end user. i can assure that winmo7 is gonna fall like vista.
winmo 5-6.5.x has never been a sexy OS. it only worked cause most of its users know its power of customization. thats the reason winmo has been living for soo long. without that i doubt they'll b able to sustain much. i may be turned out wrong but this is what i strongly feel.

that's a good news.
microsoft will fail again & people will switch to android or iphone.
but what if xda devs fail to port android to wm 6.xx devices?

Sina™ said:
that's a good news.
microsoft will fail again & people will switch to android or iphone.
but what if xda devs fail to port android to wm 6.xx devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i doubt xda will fail at portin androind. sooner or later they will. like they have done for hd and tp2.

That's right, WP7 might not for power user ... if and only if it is quite limited in terms of customization / tweaking, just like iPhone.
But, it is early to tell that WP7 will fail.
Why?
Because power user is much more limited in terms of numbers compared to regular users.
And dont forget people JUMPING platform from iPhone, Nokia, BB, Android, others to WP7 ... just to try something new or they think it is more attractive.
You cannot rule that out.
Mr. Makk said:
and that will only work with the help of those users who wana change from iphone or symbian and move to winmo7. i doubt power users of android and winmo 6.5.x will prefer much of this new limited environment of winmo7.
with what they think they r providing will be gr8 for end user. i can assure that winmo7 is gonna fall like vista.
winmo 5-6.5.x has never been a sexy OS. it only worked cause most of its users know its power of customization. thats the reason winmo has been living for soo long. without that i doubt they'll b able to sustain much. i may be turned out wrong but this is what i strongly feel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Buying a phone should not be enforcement.
I feel sorry for you if you were forced to buy a phone / gadget
There are choices as you said, iPhone, Android, Nokia, upcoming MeeGo or even Bada OS.
Sina™ said:
my opinion
just microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i dont want new gadgets every year, i want strong 3rd party support like iphone.

Microsoft Germany: WM 6.5 is here to stay

Can you smell Microsoft getting smarter:
---
Q
Microsoft originally intended to keep WM6 alive as Windows Phone Classic. Will this still be done now that WME has been announced? If yes, for how long?
A: Windows Phone 7 and Windows Mobile 6.5 will coexist in the market for some time. Windows Mobile provides many advanced enterprise features that large customers rely on in managed environments.
---
More here:
http://tamsppc.tamoggemon.com/2010/07/07/microsofts-frank-prengel-on-windows-mobile/

Old news is old

Why would Microsoft say anything else. If they said they would ditch Windows Mobile entirely to October, people might go out and buy iPhones instead. Can't have that!

Windcape said:
Why would Microsoft say anything else. If they said they would ditch Windows Mobile entirely to October, people might go out and buy iPhones instead. Can't have that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you know that support for Windows 2000 ends on Tuesday? Microsoft isn't one to leave their enterprise customers hanging. No reason to believe that they aren't being sincere with that promise.

Notice he specifically referenced enterprise, nothing about supporting WM in the consumer space. Seems to me they are now trying to position WM as purely an enterprise OS and are ignoring the (still) millions of non-enterprise owners of WM phones.
Lets not kid ourselves, after WP7 launches you wont see any new consumer WM devices or support, only devices geared for enterprise use like rugged WM devices. Right now they are just marking time, as Windcape said if MS came out and said they are ditching WM in October their sales would plummet even faster than its currently doing.

efjay said:
Notice he specifically referenced enterprise, nothing about supporting WM in the consumer space. Seems to me they are now trying to position WM as purely an enterprise OS and are ignoring the (still) millions of non-enterprise owners of WM phones.
Lets not kid ourselves, after WP7 launches you wont see any new consumer WM devices or support, only devices geared for enterprise use like rugged WM devices. Right now they are just marking time, as Windcape said if MS came out and said they are ditching WM in October their sales would plummet even faster than its currently doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM has never been positioned as a consumer OS. It's always driven me insane as I'm a "consumer" user but that's the truth. Enterprises have need for more than just ruggedized devices, some use them for general purpose email, etc. Also, WP7 doesn't support chinese, etc so they will continue to launch new devices in those markets. Of course what really matters is the OEMs. You will probably only see a few new devices launched and they will be enterprise focused (stuff like the TP2) since they won't make any money selling consumer WM6 devices with WP7 sitting right there next to it.
The fact is, we non-enterprise WM users are a pretty small minority.

RustyGrom said:
WM has never been positioned as a consumer OS. It's always driven me insane as I'm a "consumer" user but that's the truth. Enterprises have need for more than just ruggedized devices, some use them for general purpose email, etc. Also, WP7 doesn't support chinese, etc so they will continue to launch new devices in those markets. Of course what really matters is the OEMs. You will probably only see a few new devices launched and they will be enterprise focused (stuff like the TP2) since they won't make any money selling consumer WM6 devices with WP7 sitting right there next to it.
The fact is, we non-enterprise WM users are a pretty small minority.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In all the years I have owned a WM device I have never seen it promoted as solely an enterprise OS and NOT being suitable for consumer use, in fact wasnt 6.5 promoted as being suitable for work AND consumer use? Its also hard to believe that the bulk of WM sales are to the enterprise, I doubt very much enterprises put in large orders for devices like the HD2, Diamond, Omnia. And if that really is the case they should stop direct sales of WM devices to consumers, why sell a phone which is advertised with entertainment features like the HD2 was?

efjay said:
In all the years I have owned a WM device I have never seen it promoted as solely an enterprise OS and NOT being suitable for consumer use, in fact wasnt 6.5 promoted as being suitable for work AND consumer use? Its also hard to believe that the bulk of WM sales are to the enterprise, I doubt very much enterprises put in large orders for devices like the HD2, Diamond, Omnia. And if that really is the case they should stop direct sales of WM devices to consumers, why sell a phone which is advertised with entertainment features like the HD2 was?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In more recent times, yes. But 6.5 was just a stop-gap til they could get WP7 into the market. It's still very much targeted at business use. I remember all of the marketing for the Sprint Mogul was solely business oriented. They completely ignored media, etc.
So yes, those devices were targeted at consumers but that wasn't Microsoft doing it. Even look at the ad campaign for WM6.5... it was all about taking office apps with you on the go. Yea, that's exactly what consumers care most about. WM has always been enterprise/business 1st, everyone else 2nd. So not solely for enterprise but that was the clear priority.
But getting back to the original point... MS will continue to support WM as it is today for the next few years at least. Will the OEMs make new devices? Probably in foreign markets and some business focused devices in Europe and the US. But pretty much any device that most people will want to use will be WP7. Once WP7 picks up more enterprise capabilities, I would expect it to shift.

RustyGrom said:
Did you know that support for Windows 2000 ends on Tuesday? Microsoft isn't one to leave their enterprise customers hanging. No reason to believe that they aren't being sincere with that promise.
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Microsoft released 3 new version of their server-OS product line (Server 2003, 2008, 2008 R2).
I think t's fair to call the support after ten years. I don't think Windows Mobile 1.0 is supported either today!

efjay said:
Lets not kid ourselves, after WP7 launches you wont see any new consumer WM devices or support, only devices geared for enterprise use like rugged WM devices.
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Most probably we wouldn't see great new WM devices regardless of what MS thought about it.

Windcape said:
Microsoft released 3 new version of their server-OS product line (Server 2003, 2008, 2008 R2).
I think t's fair to call the support after ten years. I don't think Windows Mobile 1.0 is supported either today!
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That's my point. There's no reason to believe MS will abandon WM6 anytime soon based off their past history.

" Microsoft Germany: WM 6.5 is here to stay"
Yes... it will stay in a coffin

41:10 into this interview, Brandon Watson confirms no more work being done on WM 6.5:
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vi...-mobility-partner-panel-q-and-a/qm237zm9?from

Hi,
what more work should they do?
IMHO, the OS is fine as it is. All it needs is adjusting to new hardware, which anyways is the job of the licensee...

Windcape said:
Microsoft released 3 new version of their server-OS product line (Server 2003, 2008, 2008 R2).
I think t's fair to call the support after ten years. I don't think Windows Mobile 1.0 is supported either today!
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Click to collapse
A lot of Android and Iphone fanboys simply are yet to realize how deep Microsoft is with enterprise customers and the excellent job they have done at continuing support for legacy systems. Android has already left their early adopters eating sawdust and the system is less than 3 years old. I'm unsure on if the original Iphone was given a viable update to the new Iphone OS4 so I can't comment, but I'm pretty sure they are going to have issues in the future as the hardware demands grow for the Iphone. I think it is awesome that Microsoft is creating a brand new platform that will kick ass while still having a viable system in place for the legacy phones that are out there.

RustyGrom said:
Did you know that support for Windows 2000 ends on Tuesday? Microsoft isn't one to leave their enterprise customers hanging. No reason to believe that they aren't being sincere with that promise.
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Click to collapse
If your a large volume customer (5,000+ units, I think, I forget the exact number), you can still get support for Windows 2000. If your willing to pay for it....Pay is the key word. NT4 is still supported if you PAY for it.
Most who were on NT 4 or 2000, moved to XP anyway...if not on 7 (most skipped over vista)

Microsoft abandoning WM for WP?
Are Microsoft completley abandoning Windows Mobile for Windows Phone?
It seems to me that this would be a stupid idea since Windows Mobile is a basically a Mobile OS rather then a Mobile Phone OS.
Wouldn't it be much more logical to have 2 branches, ie a Mobile and Phone?

TheATHEiST said:
Are Microsoft completley abandoning Windows Mobile for Windows Phone?
It seems to me that this would be a stupid idea since Windows Mobile is a basically a Mobile OS rather then a Mobile Phone OS.
Wouldn't it be much more logical to have 2 branches, ie a Mobile and Phone?
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i would agree. 2 are better than one. it would also be better competition towards apple n android. lets go WM.

I doubt it. MS will continue to support WM6.X for a while yet. Now 3rd party support is another story...

No they learned this back in their parrallel solution days. When they had Windows 98/ME running in parrallel with Windows NT & 2000. They decided it was better to integrate both and offer a more robust & easier to use OS in Windows XP.
The same goes for this...they just have to learn how to integrate advanced features + Ease of use into a mobile OS.
But in the shortterm they are running Windows Embedded compact for busiess and wp7 is more consumer driven.

[Q] WM7 or iPhone dilema - small business owner

Hi, sorry if this has already been asked before.
I'm a small business owner and software developer and have been a keen Windows Mobile Developer and have several products which users currently run on WM6 iPaq PDAs.
The cost of WM6 iPAQ PDAs is currently about £240 and as they are probably no longer being manufactured they will soon become like hens teeth(very scarce).
Currently WM7 only supports Managed code with silverlight. All my apps are written using Visual MFC.
Question 1
I need to know if there is even a hint that WM7 may support unmanaged code in the near future? Can anyone tell me this.
If not then I will have to invest in porting all my apps to the iPhone platform. Why? Because then they can run on the iPOD Touch which will cost the user about £160 (My apps don't need to run on a phone)
Question 2
Does anyone know of a device that runs WM7 that is not a phone? (Like iPAQ 114).
Question 3
Does anyone else out there find themselves in my situation?
I look forward to your replies.

What's WM7?

There is no Windows Mobile 7, there's nothing after Windows Mobile 6.
Windows Phone 7 is an entirely new platform that does not support unmanaged code, hence your MFC/c++ programs will not run on it. It only supports c# and silverlight and xda for now, Microsoft hasn't been forth coming on development plans but it's highly unlikely it will support unmanaged code.
You have to rethink your business, maybe look into other platforms if you're in the mobile device software writing business, as you said windows mobile 6 is going the way of the dodo.

Jim Coleman said:
What's WM7?
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This actually made me laugh at work, now everyone knows i'm not working lol.

Get the iPhone, and don't forget MobileMe.
Spare us the trouble...
Who uses PDAs? Those iPaqs ate terrible. Better off getting an iTouch or (gasps!) Palm Pre Plus (ATT or Verizon) if your gonna stoop that low.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

don't knock him for using PDAs, they're still very commonly used in business circles as a lot of programs were written years back.
you have your answers already... at present, they don't support managed code.

PDA Apps will work on Windows Mobile smartphones.
They have close to no use, IMO.
I had an iPAQ (still have it, in the closet). They're obsolete for all practical purposes. Smartphones have replaced them.
Don't waste money on a PDA. A PMP, maybe (though that dubious with WP7 and iPhones out there usurping iTouches and ZuneHDs). A PDA, no.
If you want a great business device, then you can always consider a Blackberry Torch or HTC HD2, or perhaps a Nokia N8. They aren't the latest and/or greatest, but those systems [still] work great for business. If you want to work and play, then I guess you have to look to iOS or WP7.
Android phone capabilities vary by device and manufacturer. I cannot give a great hypothesis on them even though I've owned multiple Android phones.
WP7 will grow into a great business OS, but Microsoft has made consumers the focus for the launch - because smartphones aren't just for business (the way PDAs chiefly were used).

in terms of business use where you have a POS, you do not need to pay the additional $150 to $250 per device for the phone functionality. especially when you have to get a lot of them. businesses use PDAs where need be, and phones where need be.

Windows Phone 7 as far a official Microsoft information goes is not going to support unmanaged code. Deployment-wise you will face the same problem on WP7 as on iOS: everything has to go through the marketplace.
Even though you can program iOS using C++ I guess your porting will still very much result in a rewrite of most of the code. Especially if you made heavy use of MFC classes.
Taking all this into consideration I'd actually suggest you go the Android route as there are several cheap phones available that run Android. Additionally Android supports native code as an option.

i believe iOS is actually objective-C, not C++. So it's a different dinosaur all together... (but still prehistoric at that)

Gee thanks

No upgrade to WP8, even though WP8's core will support a much wider variety of devices from low to high end. Even though it supports the same screen resolution etc etc.
Wasted 200$ on a dev account and a dead-end phone with a programming API that's now obsolete. I think I'll stick to desktop programming from now on

Don't worry, Someone always comes along and develops a hack, At some stage there will be WP8 running on WP7 hardware, People used to think WP7 on the HD2 was a pipe dream and moaned because of no update from WM 6.5, Anything is possible on here thanks to the hardworking Devs

AndyFZ1S said:
Don't worry, Someone always comes along and develops a hack, At some stage there will be WP8 running on WP7 hardware, People used to think WP7 on the HD2 was a pipe dream and moaned because of no update from WM 6.5, Anything is possible on here thanks to the hardworking Devs
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Thats not the point.... Ive been purchasing windows phone 7 devices for my work over a year now, thinking MS wont screw us over for a third time.
Mind you should have know they did the same with wm2003 to wm5 to wm6 now wp7 to wp8.
Tomorrow im gonna be pulling WP7 devices from our internal pages.
I feel sorry for all those poor people that just got the Lumia 900, i can be seeing loads of returns in the next couple of days. No point in keeping a device for 6 months then have people stop developing apps as they will be moving to wp8. At least wp7.5 apps will run on wp8 geeee thanks a bunch.
THANK YOU FOR SCREWING US OVER AGAIN MS.

Hopefully this is true.
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/06/20/w...siasts-btw-this-is-a-wp8-lumia-already-right/

how on earth does that page twist this
Microsoft today said that it plans to make Windows Phone 8 available to users who want to install it on their Windows Phone devices, even if their carrier and/or device manufacturer won't officially support the update. Specifically, this will apply to Windows Phone 8 devices only. So if a given WP8 device is not being updated by the carrier/manufacturer in an timely manner, Microsoft will provide an unapproved version of WP8 to those who don't want to wait for official updates/builds. Microsoft said the offering is meant to help appease enthusiasts and developers. Microsoft has yet to decide exactly how it will distribute the platform to such enthusiasts, and has not yet set guidelines for how the program will work. Microsoft said more details about the program will become available in the coming months. This update program does not apply to Windows Phone 7/7.5
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to
For current Lumia owners, if you’re an enthusiast, you won’t have to wait for WP7.8 which brings in the new homescreen and some other WP8 features.
You can apparently get WP8 unofficially.
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Microsoft said nothing of that sort. What they are talking about is allowing wp8 users to get updates without their carrier (unlike 7series)

So many duplicate threads!
Sorry guys, please continue this discussion in one of the others.
Closed.