Develop Bugs

Windows Mobile 7 Details Released

http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com/archives/2008/01/06/exclusive-windows-mobile-7-to-focus-on-touch-and-motion-gestures/
Here are the details of the new Windows Mobile 7 due to be released on Devices in 2009.
Seems that some of the new technology may require new hardware, but we will see if it's compatible with the Hermes.

Awesome !!!

Maybe a little too awesome. Something like this is just fine for tweakers like us, but something tells me that having to remember what all these different shakes and gestures mean is going to baffle everyday users.
That being said though, the scrollbars, pan arrows and zoom boxes are genuis.

sacwoo said:
Seems that some of the new technology may require new hardware, but we will see if it's compatible with the Hermes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a lot of faiths to the genius developers here in this forum. Having said that, I think I would probably have replaced my Hermes by then.

i would love to have this on my Phone!!! i will tell my brother to shuv his iPhone up his Asssssss

It's really nice locking windows but I think it's not gonna be compatible with Hermes

ViktorX said:
It's really nice locking windows but I think it's not gonna be compatible with Hermes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? Or just a feeling?

I can see this, people walking around and all of a sudden, you see someone just shake their phone. The looks you would get from non tech savvy people.

PaY87 said:
Why? Or just a feeling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a feeling I think that Hermes don't have enough RAM and ROM for this windows and processor may be to slow (or not)!

at least any wm6.1 around? Just waiting to see next wm6.1 on my hermes, WM7 is still far away ...

This is something that should be launched by Xmas 08 as 6.1 or 6.5. If Samsung can release a bespoke touch phone interface by this Xmas 07 (F700) - what the hell have M$ been playing at?
Sitting on the dubious laurels of WM spring to mind. The fact is that companies like Samsung (i600) and HTC (their touch software/hardware) have done about a million times more to keep WM usable than MS have done.
Remember 09 they will likely be competing with a 2nd or 3rd generation 3G iphone, probably App Unlocked in some ways, and probably Me-Too phones from all the Major phone makers.
Too little too late is my thought.
Another thought does this blog have a legit history of predictions?

yes
hope to have something before 2009
http://www.zooomr.com/photos/[email protected]/

WM7 on our excalibur?

what is this? theme? custom rom?
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/04/06/windows-mobile-7-features-demonstrated-on-video.html

smjfosho said:
what is this? theme? custom rom?
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/04/06/windows-mobile-7-features-demonstrated-on-video.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently they are using our dash as a testbed for windows 7 platform (not a full rom), it definitely looks greats, probably we can see this early next year since WM is loosing a lot of ground with android.

If that is true, then we can hope that we will have funcional WM7 ROM with so many great chefs here.
Moto MPx200 was used for testing WM5, and it got funcional WM5 ROM.

Carebear85 said:
If that is true, then we can hope that we will have funcional WM7 ROM with so many great chefs here.
Moto MPx200 was used for testing WM5, and it got funcional WM5 ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don´t know if it will be possible, given the hardware´s age. In fact, you should take a read on this article from WMexperts saying that no device available today is (or will be) able to run WM7.
Regards

i sold my Motorola Mpx200 with WM5 operating ROM, it needed the SD card ALLWAYS in the phone cause system files where there!!
regards

Mr. Clown said:
Apparently they are using our dash as a testbed for windows 7 platform (not a full rom), it definitely looks greats, probably we can see this early next year since WM is loosing a lot of ground with android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey senor clown

windows mobile 7 thumbs down
Mr. Clown said:
Apparently they are using our dash as a testbed for windows 7 platform (not a full rom), it definitely looks greats, probably we can see this early next year since WM is loosing a lot of ground with android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i truly agree with u all people talk bout is android iphone an blackberry i used to have a blackberry i dont see wat so great with it WM has ton more apps and customization u can do to the phone and i just think windows dug a deeper hole with there WM7... nothing against windows i still bought the hd2 probably last window phone ill buy unless they step up an make a phone that compete with iphone and android...
just my preference

i would love to hav this even if its not fully functional just to see what w7 feels like

bgtvfr said:
i truly agree with u all people talk bout is android iphone an blackberry i used to have a blackberry i dont see wat so great with it WM has ton more apps and customization u can do to the phone and i just think windows dug a deeper hole with there WM7... nothing against windows i still bought the hd2 probably last window phone ill buy unless they step up an make a phone that compete with iphone and android...
just my preference
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hd2 is a great device, it will be the first device capable of running 3 OS (WM, Android and WM7). I'm still sticking with WM for a while but will definitely get an android phone in the near future. Regarding the dash with WM7, I really doubt we can see something since hardware will not allow...but a theme can be a possibility.

Not that anybody would even think it and i'm probably pointing out the obvious, but there's no hope for microsoft even bringing out 7 updates for even the latest phones, which is sad. The HD2 wasn't allowed one because it apparently didn't have the right button layout. (I mean come on.) I wish microsoft would just release some of this software for dated phones like the Dash, just for us to have a play around with.

try this theme

veveve said:
try this theme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that does the same also lie
Only WM7 skin

awesome theme, great job
now just need to find someway to get zune in WM 6.5 and update titanium weather to latest build

Tilt 2 and WM 7 ?

Hello everyone. Can I have some expert opinion please? Do we think that the tilt 2 which was just released last Oct. and I just got mine last week, will be able to support windows mobile 7? Do we think that AT&T will upgrade the OS when it comes out? Being and owner of win mo phones since the 8125 first came out, I know how slow AT&T is to release updated OS's.

This is by no means an "expert" opinion. But the general consensus nowadays is that only the HD2 is confirmed to support WinMo7 and our TP2 will not.
But, consider this:
-WinMo 6.5 was not meant to be on the Touch Diamond.
-WinMo devices were not meant to run Android.
-Sense 2.5 was not meant to come to our TP2.
Yet all the above are happening thanks to the great minds of XDA developers...

I'm not an expert at all...
But it seems like it's one thing for W7 to be somehow cooked to run on the TP2, but another thing for it to run well, without excessive lag (for example).

ohyeahar said:
This is by no means an "expert" opinion. But the general consensus nowadays is that only the HD2 is confirmed to support WinMo7 and our TP2 will not.
But, consider this:
-WinMo 6.5 was not meant to be on the Touch Diamond.
-WinMo devices were not meant to run Android.
-Sense 2.5 was not meant to come to our TP2.
Yet all the above are happening thanks to the great minds of XDA developers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great point. Whenever someone dares to mention WinMo7 on the TP2, you get flamed and the spec impossibilities yelled at your face. But exactly my point about what people said "couldn't" be done!

It definitely won't be easy, but as long as the OS is cook-able, somebody will take on the task.
What worries me is though, WM7 may not be WM at all! Several reports told something about Zune OS being used instead, and being incompatible with any of the old applications. I hope not

sukru said:
It definitely won't be easy, but as long as the OS is cook-able, somebody will take on the task.
What worries me is though, WM7 may not be WM at all! Several reports told something about Zune OS being used instead, and being incompatible with any of the old applications. I hope not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Zune OS is based off of the Windows CE kernel, which is also the base for Windows Mobile, so there wouldn't be complete incompatibility as some of the false rumors lead you to believe. There are a lot of blatantly false rumors floating around on even the most respected WM sites, so take every unconfirmed rumor you read about WM 7 with a grain of salt.
Though I would love Windows Mobile 7 on the Touch Pro2, I have to say that it's pretty unlikely it'll happen. First, to everyone who gives the example of WM6 running on WM5 devices and WM6.5 running on WM 6.x/5.x devices, the reason this is easy is because all these operating systems (WM5-WM6) run the same Windows CE 5.2 kernel. It's a lot easier to backport an OS when it uses the same kernel. Windows Mobile 7 is going to be based off Windows CE 6 or 7, and it'll likely take a hell of a lot of low-level work to get WM7 on the Pro2.
If you don't believe me, look in this thread at PPCGeeks, where some of the most technical people discuss this issue in more detail. It seems to me that we'll need a new everything, from the SPL and bootloader to new hardware drivers (since it's extremely unlikely that WM7 will support the Qualcomm MSM series considering the rumored WM 6.5.x and WM 7 coexistance scheme, where only 6.5 supports lower end devices and hardware like the MSM series).
I'm not saying I don't want WM 7 on the Rhodium, since I really do, but I am trying to be realistic here, so I'm gonna say it's likely no to WM 7 on the Pro2.

one guy from htc russia announced WM7 minimal requirements: 8Gb onboard, CPU1GHz,FM, 5Mpx,compass,G-sensor,3,6",WVGA.
but of course its not true

My Universal (2005) came with wm5!
Then upgraded to wm6, then to wm6.1 and I got it working with wm6.5
I´m sure the great chefs here will manage something so we can have wm7 for sure!

CE6 or CE7?

There still seems to be some disagreement as to whether WP7 is based on Windows CE 6 or CE 7. Any chance of a definitive answer?

CE7
10 chars limit

As Engadget once heard from a Microsoft interview, WP7S is based on the same core as the Zune HD (CE6). Plus CE7 isn't even released yet, which means that it wasn't available for use in WP7S last year, when development began. This is just what I've heard.

You see what I mean about disagreement.

Shasarak said:
You see what I mean about disagreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol im 99% sure its CE7 i think i seen it somewhere on a wp7 dev site or blog ill look for it tho..give me a sec im bout to leave

CE6 r3, same as the Zune HD.
Microsoft will not build a new product without using a stable base.

No, it's CE70 I am sure 100%.

so did you make up your minds?!

Morpheus Phreak said:
Microsoft will not build a new product without using a stable base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What qualifies something as "stable"?

Based on past history, MS has released a version of CE long before using it in the Windows Mobile/Windows Phone line. So based on that fact and a lot of reading I've done, I think it's CE 6.0 R3 like the Zune HD. But until Microsoft says it, there's no way to know for sure. Perhaps it's an evolution of CE 6.0 (R4?) and they are going to call it CE7. Who knows.

chambo622 said:
Perhaps it's an evolution of CE 6.0 (R4?) and they are going to call it CE7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like how they called NT 6.1 "Windows 7"?
; )

Spike15 said:
Like how they called NT 6.1 "Windows 7"?
; )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure But I love Windows 7, they can call it whatever they want. WP7S, not so much (yet).

nvm It's based on the Windows CE 6 kernel according to engadet in the basic facts section...guess i was wrong
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/18/windows-phone-7-series-the-complete-guide/

Cotulla said:
No, it's CE70 I am sure 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not necessarily doubting you, but could you cite some sources to back that up?

Mozilla seems to think its running on CE6

I've added a poll so we can try and establish the facts democratically. (rotfl)

Ganondolf said:
Mozilla seems to think its running on CE6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah they thought so when they informed people that they are working on firefox mobile for next generation which they said was based on CE6 but now they are saying that WM is no good and they are focusing on other platforms.
So I think that after many rumours that WM7 is CE6 they believed it and decided to start developing proper version even before official premier of new windows phone and now they learned something is not how they thought it would be so they're unhappy about it.
I would say it is based on CE7. Why? Because some time ago Da_G confirmed that WM7 is based on CE7 for a long time already and I believe his words. Besides just because they haven't released CE7 doesn't mean it can't be used for WP7. For all its worth they could be both developed simultaneously...

If their products are any indication, Mozilla Foundation don't know squat about mobile systems.

Wishmaster89 said:
So I think that after many rumours that WM7 is CE6 they believed it and decided to start developing proper version even before official premier of new windows phone and now they learned something is not how they thought it would be so they're unhappy about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stopped developing for WM because windows phone 7 will not allow native code for third-party-studios. That has nothing to do with ce though.

TheGoD said:
The stopped developing for WM because windows phone 7 will not allow native code for third-party-studios. That has nothing to do with ce though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah you're right but my point was that they thought that next windows will be based on CE6(this is something they said 8 months ago) and they developed for it but now they learned that WP7 is completely different from what they expected and it doesn't allow native code.
So yes it has something to do with CE cause as I said Da_G confirmed that WM7(internal name for windows phone that you can find in emulator) is based on CE7 and that was almost a year ago...

Windows Phone OS 7 Guides [Development::Architecture::Customization]

Some additional information about Windows Phone OS 7. These guides cover technical information about the new OS consisting of
Download the documents here
- Application Development Guide
The OEM and MO Application Guide for WP7 provides guidance on developing applications for a Windows Phone.
- WP7 Architecture Guide
The Architecture Guide provides fundamental technical information about WP7. It serves as a roadmap to the components and core fundamentals of the WP7 architecture.
- WP7 Customization Guide
The Customization Guide for WP7 provides information about customizing the user interface and other system functionality.
Have fun reading, thanks to Tom Codon.

Thanks. Do you have a linkable source?
Casey

Casey_boy said:
Thanks. Do you have a linkable source?
Casey
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be post #1

love all the info you guys are digging up... keep em coming... now any one got a spyshot for the HTC Mondrian

The architecture article must be very outdated. It tells about CE6, but afaik, CE6 has been replaced by CE7 during development.

It says "Ferburary 2010".

vangrieg said:
It says "Ferburary 2010".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah so that's the weird thing about it.

vangrieg said:
It says "Ferburary 2010".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was reading some of the architecture guide and some way down it says something(cant remember what) will be ready for the end of 2009.
So I think that it was written in late 2009 for feb 2010. Also some of the information has been changed like it says one one of the guides that you can have external storage which we know MS was now removed.

[ElCondor] said:
The architecture article must be very outdated. It tells about CE6, but afaik, CE6 has been replaced by CE7 during development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe someone is MS has said it is based on CE6 with features of CE7 added, so its probably somewhere between the two.
MS probably did this as CE7 was not finalised when the started making WP7 so they used CE6 and added features of CE7 that was being made for CE7 by the CE team (dont know what department makes the CE stuff).
I expect that MS could update to the full version of CE7 with a system update (I expect MS to have a major update each year like apple does).

Im not sure if anyone outside of MS knows the answer to this question but would like your views on what you think the answer could be.
I the Customization guide it say that OEM can only add 6 apps that together are no larger that 60mb.
So can a company this Asus who make the Garmin-Asus phones make a wp7 handset with the satnav built-in? (this would be a lot larger than 60mb)

Maps can be a separate download.

Ganondolf said:
I believe someone is MS has said it is based on CE6 with features of CE7 added, so its probably somewhere between the two.
MS probably did this as CE7 was not finalised when the started making WP7 so they used CE6 and added features of CE7 that was being made for CE7 by the CE team (dont know what department makes the CE stuff).
I expect that MS could update to the full version of CE7 with a system update (I expect MS to have a major update each year like apple does).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I heard too.

Ganondolf said:
I believe someone is MS has said it is based on CE6 with features of CE7 added, so its probably somewhere between the two.
MS probably did this as CE7 was not finalised when the started making WP7 so they used CE6 and added features of CE7 that was being made for CE7 by the CE team (dont know what department makes the CE stuff).
I expect that MS could update to the full version of CE7 with a system update (I expect MS to have a major update each year like apple does).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Da_G explained it in a previous thread.

RustyGrom said:
Da_G explained it in a previous thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was speaking about the quote from the microsoft guy, as i feel his explanation of why there is confusion if its CE6 or CE7 is better for us to get a understanding of the situation.
vangrieg said:
Maps can be a separate download.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes but that would mean that we would have to download a gig or so of maps to the handset or zune software after purchase.
Also does anyone know how big a satnav software is without the maps and voices as i still think it would be large and the OEM only has a cobined total of 60mb for all 6 apps.

Ganondolf said:
I was speaking about the quote from the microsoft guy, as i feel his explanation of why there is confusion if its CE6 or CE7 is better for us to get a understanding of the situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right but it's rather unlikely that MS would ship WP7 with a pre-production OS. It just wouldn't really make much sense. What Da_G said, and I agree with, is that MS will likely RTM both at the same time (or close). MS has talks planned at their Tech Ed conference next month on things like "WEM308 | Windows Embedded Overview: Demos of the Latest and Upcoming Releases". They haven't announced CE7 but it sounds like they will before then or at TechEd.

RustyGrom said:
Right but it's rather unlikely that MS would ship WP7 with a pre-production OS. It just wouldn't really make much sense. What Da_G said, and I agree with, is that MS will likely RTM both at the same time (or close). MS has talks planned at their Tech Ed conference next month on things like "WEM308 | Windows Embedded Overview: Demos of the Latest and Upcoming Releases". They haven't announced CE7 but it sounds like they will before then or at TechEd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could be true but its best to remember that CE is not the WP7 OS but only the code the OS is built on so its very possible they could release the WP7 OS like it is now (CE6 + extra code) and then add extra code later (Full CE7).
In the end i dont think it will make a lot of difference to the end user as if they change it to full CE7 they wont have enough time to add the features launch so the added code wont change anything to the next update (around a year later if they go the apple route).
We will have to wait and see what code the finished launch roms use.

I believe Windows Phone 7 is actually based on the Windows CE 6 core with custom add-ons. This would make sense as CE7 is not reached RTM yet and from a development perspective it wouldn't be good to base your new Phone experience on an unfinished base OS. It would also make synchronization of the development between the two teams very complicated.

RustyGrom said:
Right but it's rather unlikely that MS would ship WP7 with a pre-production OS. It just wouldn't really make much sense. What Da_G said, and I agree with, is that MS will likely RTM both at the same time (or close). MS has talks planned at their Tech Ed conference next month on things like "WEM308 | Windows Embedded Overview: Demos of the Latest and Upcoming Releases". They haven't announced CE7 but it sounds like they will before then or at TechEd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't put it past them. They shipped Windows ME with a late beta build of IE5.5. While I hope they do it right from the start, it also wouldn't surprise me if they rely on that Microsoft-controlled update service a lot in order to get WP7 out the door so they can continue development and update the OS between the time it RTM's and carriers begin selling the phones to consumers. And don't get me wrong, I can't wait for WP7 regardless. Barring some major setback, I am 95% sure I will be in line to pick up a WP7 phone during the first weeks of its release.

Sorry but that is incorrect, CE7 is due to RTM in July, with WP7 due to RTM in October. That is why they are using it now... Its to make sure the CE7 core is bedded down properly, which should help with perf moving forward.
The core is and has always been CE7.

walshieau said:
The core is and has always been CE7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so what your trying to say is that Microsoft was wrong when they said it is using CE6+ added bits from CE7 and you are right lol.