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Hi,
Please participate to petition, otherwise it becomes soon boringly here.
XDA Developers Petition
MfG
S64
Not much info in this post, but the link is to the petition to allow XDA-Developers to host ROMs again. MS banned them from hosting them a while back, and all it did was make people use File-Sharing websites instead.
Personally, I think having them held on XDA-Dev and moderated is a much more secure method than having to store them on file sharing.
If you want XDA-Dev to be able to host ROMs, sign the petition. If you don't, don't!
Thanks Stu for clarifying this thread! Interesting petition...I'll check it out.
thanks sign and put in sig
perhaps a better name for this petition would be "Dear Microsoft, my name's XXX and I like stealing your software"
That does not have to steal only change nothing also.
Everyone, which any HTC of the telephones possesses, the software already paid.
Hoping are not still more people of your opinion.
We all profit from forums like this.
Everyone that that does not please, can dissolve its account here.
I have absolutely nothing against xda-developers's roms, i've used many of them and I think they're great.
I do, however. think that it's slightly naive to tell a notoriously litigious company that you enjoy stealing their products.
Onto my soapbox
I do not, and never have, considered what XDA Dev does to be stealing. We take released ROMs, and make the best ones we can from the best bits. To my mind, it's very similar to taking a load of Ford cars (say) and making a car with the best bits - so some ROMs have the space of a people carrier (Dutty), some have the performance of a GT (TNT) and some have the customisability of a Focus ST (Pandora). Ford have then come along and told us we cannot hold these finished cars on our yard, so we're making them and distributing them via all the local dealerships!
To my mind, it's much easier to keep dangerous ROMs off the streets (and hence lower "warranty" claims) if we're just allowed to host the ROMs again. That'll give the chefs and mods a lot more control and simplify the current stupid situation of having to use file sharing sites.
Apologies for the analogy (and I know everyone will disagree with the cars/manufacturer/ROMs parrallels, but it was only a hastily thrown together example) but this is just my two cents worth.
unfortunately software is not like a car, it is one of those lovely bits of intangible IP that allows the manufacturer to have enduring rights over it - it doesn't matter what we consider to be stealing, it's not our consideration to make.
tbh i think that xda-devs would be a great help to certain phone companies (just look how awful the first vario II rom was compared to some of the roms that have come out of here), but you may as well petition the RIAA to allow you to download music for free because you're really good at remixing
I do not understand your point. We do not "ask for free music" we already paid for it. As far as i know, our hermes came with a valid licence no? And as far as i know, htc is giving us the ability to download wm6 without paying once more for it...
HTC pay M$ for a license to allow them to create device specific roms, these roms are either distributed to people who bought direct from HTC or are distributed via providers such as tmobile (who license the software from HTC/M$ and develop it further). Similarly, a person who wished to cover or remix a song must obtain the right to do it from the original creator/owner of the intellectual property that is the music/words/etc.
HTC and providers try to protect the money they have paid for licenses by making it necessary to enter IMEI/serial numbers in order to download rom updates and provide them only for their customers.
Xda developers do not license the right to develop roms from M$ or HTC
Umm, You all do know that you're quite a few months late on this whole spreading the word on the petition thing...right?
I did sign the petition...long ago, but myself..I don't see what the fuss is about, Im sure I have missed a couple posts, but so far in this wm6 section, I have only seen one person with a bogus ROM they had got, and were asking about, also Im pretty sure they said that came from a torrent.
The ftp here isn't known to be the cleanest, as far as bogus files etc, and yes I know there is a locked down section..once the file is approved or whatever the word used in this case might be, but that requires mod's to constantly stay ontop of, and files are shared before they get there.
Also, I don't know how fat the pipe is here, but all this hosting on the fileshare sites has to be helping..I would think, cause the number of HTC devices increases, along with the numbers of cooked ROM's, Im sure even now, the number of downloads for all the cooked roms just in this section has to be outrageous.
I'm really getting sick and tired of waiting for HTC to release the kernel source, it's simply not on that they can release the EVO's kernel about 2 days after it's released and the Desire is still as of yet without any source code released. Stock kernels =
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/desiresrc/
I vote for starting a petition.
HTC is obliged to release the kernel sourcecode in a timely fashion when formally request under the GNU public license.
I've e-mailed them a few times about it, they gave me the run-around by saying 'oh, we can help you with that. Check developer.htc.com!'
D'oh. I hate them playing dumb.
I'd be up for signing a petition. Get one started and we can do this properly. I want overclock etc on Sense roms plz!!!
Oh and it will help us to add trackpad unlock as trackpad wake is pointless without it!!!
why wouldn't google do something about it?
after all it's their OS rite?
Just keep e-mailing them, they're legally obliged to release it.
HTC is in serious violation of copyright law at the moment by distributing the software but refusing to release source code to the kernel. An indefinite 'they'll get around to it' doesn't make it legal.
Screw a petition.
Someone needs to take them to court. Or at least send a letter with loads of legal mumo jumbo reminding them of their obligations...
Any lawyers here with a bit of spare time...if there are I'm sure we will all give in a good word when we get to heaven for you (sorry) if you can help us.
As many users as possible should report HTC http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
bradputt said:
why wouldn't google do something about it?
after all it's their OS rite?
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No it's not. in truth it's everybody's OS but it belongs most to Linus Thorvalds if it belongs to anyone at all
Juggalo_X said:
As many users as possible should report HTC http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
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Best point of action.
The GPL v2 basically says that if you distribute a binary (i.e. the kernel) you must distribute with it the source code, or provide a written offer to produce the source code on request for at least three years. If you don't meet those requirements you have no right whatsoever to distribute the code, and it's blatant copyright infringement (Linux may be free of charge, but it's copyrighted code).
Someone write to them with that information and request it then
Also right here
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html
The more bad press and and the more GPL type calls they get from other organizations will force them to comply with the GPL or be sued so i say we all get on it. The more users who report the more HTC gets the pressure put on. This is getting rediculous. The Incredible and the Evo had the source out with in hours of the RUU release.
Maybe if someone could write a simple piece of text on here that we could "copy and paste" maybe that would help for the links to GPL violations?.
I am all up for putting a complaint in but i wouldnt have a clue how to word it correctly to get the desired (Excuse the pun) outcome.
Just a thought
I've e-mailed [email protected] and asked politely to make HTC release the code
Keep the mail adresses comming and we'll make sure that the problem gets acknowledged!
HTC's well aware of its legal obligation and frequently breaks the law anyway. Its EULA states:
Until the date that is three years after you acquired the Software, you
may obtain a copy of the source code corresponding to the binaries for
GPL-licensed file by sending a request to HTC customer service at www.
htc.com, and HTC will send you a link to such source code.
That's not actually satisfactory under the GPL (though most people would be happy with it in practice), but they don't actually do that. Requests are ignored or given a 'go to this site' response, where there's no code.
Users should be email HTC as well to put the pressure on.
They don't want to release source code because they don't want us to mess with the frequencies (most likely). That doesn't matter though, no matter how big you are, you still have to obey the licenses.
GPL says they have 60 days after public release of software.
So... wait until days 55-60 before pulling the torches.
They did the same thing for the nexus source.
JCopernicus said:
GPL says they have 60 days after public release of software.
So... wait until days 55-60 before pulling the torches.
They did the same thing for the nexus source.
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Are they not supposed to supply it uppon request even though.
I'm looking for people who are experienced phone hackers to start a new community project; as an alternative to ChevronWP7, which no longer works on the 'NoDo' update, and it seems that the ChevronWP7 team was either sold out, or encountered legal trouble. The need for a new hacking team is clearly visible. We need an alternative to ChevronWP7! Anyone with me?
IDWMaster said:
I'm looking for people who are experienced phone hackers to start a new community project; as an alternative to ChevronWP7, which no longer works on the 'NoDo' update, and it seems that the ChevronWP7 team was either sold out, or encountered legal trouble. The need for a new hacking team is clearly visible. We need an alternative to ChevronWP7! Anyone with me?
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while the intent of the posting is good, in general the argument is lol
chevron was not bought out and as far as legal trouble goes, none of that. In fact, microsoft has taken a very positive stance on development and hacking - even going as far as speaking on ppcgeeks about it
domineus said:
while the intent of the posting is good, in general the argument is lol
chevron was not bought out and as far as legal trouble goes, none of that. In fact, microsoft has taken a very positive stance on development and hacking - even going as far as speaking on ppcgeeks about it
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True, but looking at this problem from a business stance; why would Microsoft want to allow homebrew development on their platform, and how do we know that they will honor their word? There hasn't been a single post from the ChevronWP7 team since January, and Microsoft hasn't mentioned a word about it since then either. How can we be sure that Microsoft hasn't used a "legal muscle", and settled the legal matters behind the scenes, while keeping it secret to the public?
IDWMaster said:
True, but looking at this problem from a business stance; why would Microsoft want to allow homebrew development on their platform, and how do we know that they will honor their word? There hasn't been a single post from the ChevronWP7 team since January, and Microsoft hasn't mentioned a word about it since then either. How can we be sure that Microsoft hasn't used a "legal muscle", and settled the legal matters behind the scenes, while keeping it secret to the public?
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as far as group chevron is still working
and I still talk to chris and rafael (less of him) on twitter frequently. Chevron team is not hard to find and generally pretty talkative and helpful. Microsoft seems to understand the power that homebrew does have on development and while we don't know specifically the plans of it, I think by not taking an apple, google, or sony stance, it will only benefit them.
As far as the conspiracy theory, chevron members are still working so don't worry
domineus said:
as far as group chevron is still working
and I still talk to chris and rafael (less of him) on twitter frequently. Chevron team is not hard to find and generally pretty talkative and helpful. Microsoft seems to understand the power that homebrew does have on development and while we don't know specifically the plans of it, I think by not taking an apple, google, or sony stance, it will only benefit them.
As far as the conspiracy theory, chevron members are still working so don't worry
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That's good to know
chevron has been compromised
sure microsoft plays nice, the best they can do is accept that such things as piracy and homebrew exist. and thats what they did.
i mean cmon, they gave them guys tshirts.
did they offer them jobs? why are these guys not working for the dev team already if they have not done something big and special.
as far as i know the chevron unlock was a rather simple hack.
they used the official developer unlock application
wiresharked the data which is send to and from ms when u unlock the phone.
they noticed that the unlock is done by some simple registry entry
you then spoof the ms dev server and send the reg strings to your phone.
and bang, phone was unlocked...
now i dont know how they got the certificate which is needed.
maybe we need a new one.
did anyone actually try to install the old certificate on the nodo ?
i just wonder, will the official developer unlock for $99 allow me to side-load apps? i really want them LG Apps back!
but hey, do you really think microsoft will allow homebrew or better said, side-loading?
you homebrew already with the sdk if you registered
and side-loading? will be called piracy sooner or later
Unreliable
With all due respect, and they did break new ground, this application did not have the bugs worked out. Just read through the hundreds of posts on their site and you will find that half the posters had communications issues and could not unlock, and the devs do not appear to have a handle on the issues nor were they responsive to those issues. This app needs lots of work before it can be considered usable for the vast majority of people who would want to use it. Rework it completely would be my suggestion.
being realistic even users were having issues legitimately registering their devices with windows phone developer...even the sprint arrive has that same issue...
All you need to do is to find a new way to edit the registry keys. LG phones can do this natively. WP7 unlocks are by far the easiest of any device OS.
I wanted to bring up a very important topic that seems to be brought up recently. There have been reports that people copy and steal other people's works. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. For one, android is open source and everyone can use it without asking permission. For another, if you are defending your case by saying that it takes hours and days to compile your Rom, then what about those people at HTC and Google who developed the original Roms? They spent years studying and developing Roms. Do you ask permission? You don't. In theory, you should all be banned and discontinued because you didn't ask permission from HTC or Google. Now stop acting like a bunch of Steve Jobs. And while you're at it try and Patent your Rom so other people can't use it. This is probably the reason Android Development will fall and iOS development will rise.
First in before the bashing starts
Sent from a dream.
So...this wasn't so much a "question" as much as a rant.
HTC and Google devs get recognition: they get paid, and they get the experience to put on their resume. Our devs don't. They work for free. For hours. The only recognition they get is here, from the very grateful leechers (of which I am one). I don't think it's too much to ask to just get recognized for that work. Most give permission IF ASKED. If I was in fact one of those devs, someone stealing would completely turn me off from developing. And then where would us leechers be? Cooks are nice and all, but without true devs we would all still be on stock.
This has nothing to do with open source law and everything to do with basic human interaction. This is not law school. This is not a courtroom. This is a place where the generous share with the many, and I hope it stays that way.
I would also like to point out, when people complain about "dev wars" they say that they only "hurt the community." I would guess that in many cases, "hurt the community" is a synonym for "I personally don't get to have my Frankenstein ROM." All the high and mighty lingo doesn't hide that simple fact.
Apologize for my ignorance but I do understand my point. I put it in the Q&A since it did have question on the topic title so I thought the mod would move this post to Q&A anyway. It isn't too much to ask for recognition but there have been some instances in other device thread where it literally becomes a crazy nuclear war with people banning threads if a small piece of code is implemented which is ridiculous especially when that code is not device exclusive or Rom exclusive (or pure coincidence). Thanks for the quick and clarifying and mature response.
Thankfully, I haven't seen that our devs are like that, or that our mods have stood for that kind of behavior. So let's just keep enjoying our lovely Ace ROMs.
Have a read about AOSP License
Basically, while Google prefers everything AOSP related to be open source, anyone implementing Android can choose whether they would like to make their source code publicly available or not.
This is also one reason why OEMs are required to provide the kernel source code to the public (the kernel is under GPL) but not the source code to their ROMs.
Obviously, this is concerning. BUT...
"according to videocardz, the hackers gained access to"
- source code for every Trusted Applet (TA) installed in Samsung’s TrustZone environment used for sensitive operations (e.g. hardware cryptography, binary encryption, access control)
- algorithms for all biometric unlock operations
- bootloader source code for all recent Samsung devices
- confidential source code from Qualcomm
- source code for Samsung’s activation servers
- full source code for technology used for authorizing and authenticating Samsung accounts, including APIs and services"
So they have the bootloaders...and COULD help the devs unlock them for rooting.
* fingers crosses *
Lol, to plug all the new holes most will panic update as soon as Samsung releases the updates.
On the top of the Sammy holes to plug list will be a new bootloader lockout strategy, more difficult then ever before.
"You have attempted to unlock the bootloader.
This Samsung will self-destruct in 10 seconds.
Good luck, Mr. Phelps."
These hackers serve no one but themselves; thieves stealing not just from Samsung but Samsung's customers as well.
Our net gain is not just zero, it's a huge net loss because of Samsung's bumbling incompetence.
blackhawk said:
Lol, to plug all the new holes most will panic update as soon as Samsung releases the updates.
On the top of the Sammy holes to plug list will be a new bootloader lockout strategy, more difficult then ever before.
"You have attempted to unlock the bootloader.
This Samsung will self-destruct in 10 seconds.
Good luck, Mr. Phelps."
These hackers serve no one but themselves; thieves stealing not just from Samsung but Samsung's customers as well.
Our net gain is not just zero, it's a huge net loss because of Samsung's bumbling incompetence.
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People will ABSOLUTELY update ASAP. Fair reasoning, but also Sammy WILL plug that possible loophole.
Just sayin, MAYBE a hacker in the XDA community...possible.
dirtybudha said:
People will ABSOLUTELY update ASAP. Fair reasoning, but also Sammy WILL plug that possible loophole.
Just sayin, MAYBE a hacker in the XDA community...possible.
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Who knows? There's no telling if the code has been altered. The source is a big not to be trusted red flag.
Personally I wouldn't touch that hot potato.
This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Well people can ask questions about the leak, could it lead to this or that getting hacked etc (Knox etc) and theoretical discussions can take place.
BUT, we are not here to participate in a high profile hack and sharing of stolen data. For all I know these hackers have some of my data along with that of thousands of our members. Even Knox security is a concern to everyone here.
Now if this were just a matter of hacking that allows access to a device, root etc., then we have always argued that as owners of devices we should have a right to get the most from our own devices. That does not include sharing personal data, sharing illegally obtained security information or coding that very clearly would be illegal to share.
We have sometimes allowed information that is freely available on the net to be used to allow individual users / developers to get better access to their own devices, but this leak potentially goes way beyond finding a way for individuals to root their phones and XDA must not be used to share indiscriminate mass amounts of data which would breach laws in most countries and likely includes personal individual information.
XDA is like this.................
"After examining a door lock I have found a way you can pick your front door lock, try it if you like, it might help you if you lose your key."
XDA is not like this ...
"After examining a door lock, I have found a way to pick locks and I got into a shop and stole thousands of things. Would you like some? Also, would you let me come into your house and invite people in so I can tell them where to get stolen goods?"
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Thank you: Badger50 FSM
Badger50 said:
This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Thank you: Badger50 FSM
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most of us is really just looking to unlock the bootloaders to grant access to certain parts of the phone and reduce samsung e waste, but i get it, ethics and all...
Not sure that such a strong stance on this is right here. Given that development in the past has often benefitted from leaks and "illegally acquired" information. To say that none of the leak will ever make it's way here is just like trying to deny the inevitable.
I personally look forward to seeing what this brings.
And to be honest no one is using anything just discussing
Badger50 said:
This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Thank you: Badger50 FSM
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if someone uses this info to unlock bootloaders for us, you want us to snitch on them? what about all the threads have ever existed where insiders allow us to pay them for unlock tokens? all the threads where exploits that have been found from illegal leaks?
diabl0w said:
if someone uses this info to unlock bootloaders for us, you want us to snitch on them? what about all the threads have ever existed where insiders allow us to pay them for unlock tokens? all the threads where exploits that have been found from illegal leaks?
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Couldn't agree more sir!
Badger50 said:
This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Thank you: Badger50 FSM
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Click to collapse
Maybe lookup how XDA developers was formed and what the XDA was and how everything was possible to publish those days.... People were reverse engineering handhelds and stuff
DaanNL said:
Maybe lookup how XDA developers was formed and what the XDA was and how everything was possible to publish those days.... People were reverse engineering handhelds and stuff
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There is a huge difference between reverse engineering and posting stolen information. We also still actively encourage and host threads of reverse engineered "stuff", how else do you think we have TWRP, ROMs, Root, etc..?
It will be extremely difficult to find out, how much reverse engineering or stolen information is in a future bootloader hack ...