Develop Bugs

Time for action!

I and many many others on this forum and others are tired of waiting for HTC to release the HERO kernel source.
So i have created an online petition, to try to add some pressure on HTC to release it sooner, rather than later.
This is just one of many things we can do to add some pressure,
if you got ideas and suggestions to what we can do to add pressure, share it...!
The petition is located at:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/herokernel/

i really don't think it will make any difference...but good luck trying!

Please sign anyway, as it can't possibly hurt the cause.
Other ways to put pressure on HTC is to make a formal request for the kernel source @ http://www.htc.com via the "Support" pages, and/or tweet @HTC asking why the kernel source is not available.
Whatever you do, you need to make it clear that a response saying that it "will be available on the website shortly" is not acceptable, because we've been hearing that for weeks now.
The GSM Hero has been shipping for months now, and the kernel sources should've be available, by request, on day one!
Regards,
Dave

Just tweet this:
Retweet this! @HTC release the #HTC Hero kernel source! #gplviolation
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I've signed, forgot about the GPL....

signed and twittert too

signed and twittert

why not just contact the FSF via GPL-Violations.org themselves? they are the authority in enforcing GPL violations after all, and I would be interested in what they think about companies that take ages to release the source.

I would think that it is not actually gpl violation, since they(htc) would argue that the code does not exist in a usable form, so they(htc) have no compulsion to give it out.
(Can't distribute something that doesn't exist)
But i'm not lawyer
And as an aside, i've just been looking at skining the hero, and it seems like the rosie skin added a whole heap of extra stuff not in stock android, so i'm inclined to think that htc might actually just be taking a while to get it sorted

Branwen said:
since they(htc) would argue that the code does not exist in a usable form
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That in itself would be a breach of the GPL! If you ship a product containing GPL'd code, you must be able to supply the modified GPL'd code when the product ships.
And as an aside, i've just been looking at skining the hero, and it seems like the rosie skin added a whole heap of extra stuff not in stock android, so i'm inclined to think that htc might actually just be taking a while to get it sorted
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We are only talking about the GPL'd kernel source here. I would imagine that most of the HTC apps, including Sense UI (Rosie), are not open source, and therefore HTC is not required to divulge it.
Regards,
Dave

New device new petition. Quick question, have petitions accomplished anything in the pocket pc world? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure HTC hasn't acted on any.

notrock said:
New device new petition. Quick question, have petitions accomplished anything in the pocket pc world? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure HTC hasn't acted on any.
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A petition is a begging letter. You use them when you have no legal or moral authority.
I think in this case it makes light of soundly based legal and moral authority.
Sam

emailed support, hope it helps....
i just wished devs switch to galaxy instead of htc......... i hate htc anyways

I guess this has reached HTC fast enough, they have already tweeted asked for patience

http://digg.com/gadgets/HTC_Dragging_Feet_On_GPL_Source
I know that there was one earlier Digg, but it was not to an actual Slashdot story. This one is.

slimfady said:
I guess this has reached HTC fast enough, they have already tweeted asked for patience
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That'll be all the tweets they received on the subject. Asking for patience, when we've been patient for months is weak!
Regards,
Dave

http://twitter.com/htc/status/4928377685
that's the same answer given on the android 1.6/donut question on the hero.
http://twitter.com/htc/status/4815765882
I don't get why they can't say anything, trust me, if HTC would be saying the hero will be getting the new android rom it will only help them sell more phones
on the kernel sources, they are in violation of the GPL, period.
P.S.
For the people tweeting HTC, share the love and also tweet the EU version of HTC
http://twitter.com/htc_eu

As an open source advocate myself I am eager to see the kernal source released as quickly as possible by HTC. However I am concerned that the FSF putting them under pressure to do do so would be counter productive to the evolution of not only the Android platform but F/OSS itself.
I feel that perhaps it would be better to give HTC a gentle nudge in the right direction and ensure that they fully understand the legal obligation when using modified GPL'ed code on their devices.

namzuf9 said:
I feel that perhaps it would be better to give HTC a gentle nudge in the right direction and ensure that they fully understand the legal obligation when using modified GPL'ed code on their devices.
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That is essentially what we've been doing!
Regards,
Dave

signed and twittert too but no paypal donation

Anyone have more info on the GPL Violating HDMI App?

Was the app built on top of open sourced code? Is it coming back? I've got a bad feeling, like we're not going to see a properly functioning HDMI app any time soon ...

not sure what the issue is but the official thread is here
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc...llhdmi-official-fullhdmi-beta-discussion.html

xeren said:
Was the app built on top of open sourced code? Is it coming back? I've got a bad feeling, like we're not going to see a properly functioning HDMI app any time soon ...
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From what I've gleaned the only open source stuff he modified had to do with the HDMI chip in the kernel. As far as I know he has released source to those particular bits.
He _NEVER_ has to release the source to the APK if he doesn't want to. (As more than likely it is an "in-house" effort.)
Fair & square, he did the work.
If he wants cash, he'll get it.
If he wants reputation, he'll get it.
(Although I doubt it will take people very long to see what he's doing and release an entirely free implementation IF he has in fact released the source for the kernel modifications he made. If not, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html is one click away.)
Supply and demand
EDIT: Just checked and as of 3/3/11 at 10:03 PM central time, he has _NOT_ released his kernel source modifications (gee, wonder why) and is in direct violation of the GPL.
Even androidcentral has forced him to take his links down to his "illegal" kernels.
In my opinion, this guy needs to get his act together. He's pulling a solo-Samsung and doing nothing but hurting the development community.
Here's a quick page for everyone to digest to understand what exactly he is doing that is against the GPL and its terms and could put him at the peril of a lawsuit: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2721290/propietary-modules-within-gpl-and-bsd-kernels
To sum everything up, I see one of four things happening from this current scenario:
A) He releases the source modifications, and goes on living a semi happy life that will always be plagued with people remembering his defiance to follow the GPL.
Within weeks of his modifications being released I predict another individual developer will code up some hooks to link in with his kernel modifications, and bam: Free (hopefully) HDMI output app for everyone from a past or new XDA dev, and paid app for the chumps that support GPL violators or people that truly believe what he was doing is correct.
B) He realizes that once his kernel modifications are out that his apk will be useless, so he chooses not to release the mods at all thus ending this chapter in HDMI development. (And possibly ending litigations against him that may have been initiated at the request of people notifying the GNU foundation on him. Although it is rare that they would file suit against someone not CURRENTLY taking payments for GPL'd code (note he hasn't "released it" for pay yet))
C) He pulls an nvidia/samsung with his kernel module, creating two portions. One LGPL that he releases the source to and must be compiled alongside the kernel, and he includes a binary kernel module that MAY or may not kernel panic your kernel when you attempt to modprobe it. (But I don't think he can do that as he didn't create the entire work of the HDMI driver source. The license for that particular file is GPL, so he MUST release it as far as I can see.)
There is also an option D - he mans up and releases _ALL_ of his work and is revered & cheered for being a good soul. Although he will still suffer from some discredit because of his GPL folly.
In my opinion, the only reason he is not releasing the kernel modifications is because once they are released, ANYONE will easily be able to make an apk to control the output, thus ending any form of possible revenue from this "project" for him.
My gut feeling says he intended to release the kernel modification source AFTER he had racked up some sales. (Which would have been atrociously dumb from a legal stand point)
Whew!

I have been following all of his work, and he did attempt to make the modified kernel drivers public to any kernel devs that wanted to use them and incorporate them into their kernels. Not realizing that it was a violation to modify without posting source code, he soon after voluntary removed the kernel link. He has been very busy developing his work and will release source code with all the new kernels in his next free public beta release due out very soon. If you want to know more you can read the op posted on A/C.
Sent from my mobile HDMI device

HTC dragging their feet??

Hasn't it been a month since the 2.3.3 update? Where's the kernel source code? I know I'm impatient, I'm just dying for a custom kernel... Has anyone heard anything about when it will be released or how they can hold onto it for more than a month? I just thought that was one of the binding open source deals... Thanks
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Yes and root FWIW. My girl just got a brand new one and it came that way.
Sent from my world viewed in 3D with my Evo.

Just wait, it will come...
I bought my Evo 4G with 2.2. and my dumb ass hit the OTA update button and guess what?
I'm now playing the waiting game like the rest of the people stuck with an unrooted 2.3.3 phone...

He's talking about kernal source code not root u guys. By law HTC had to release this code one month after official release.

Papa Smurf151 said:
He's talking about kernal source code not root u guys. By law HTC had to release this code one month after official release.
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1+ true, perhaps they haven't released it because they know once they do..the phone will get rooted and bootloader might get unlocked?

someonenewhere said:
1+ true, perhaps they haven't released it because they know once they do..the phone will get rooted and bootloader might get unlocked?
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Good point.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

Email response to support ticket
I appreciate your interest in the kernel source code for the software upgrade to Gingerbread for the HTC EVO 4G. We will typicallypublish theKernel open source code on http://developer.htc.com for recently released devices as soon as possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community.
If you feel you need more information about this issue, you are welcome to send us another email for further troubleshooting or you can contact the HTC Technical Support team at 1-866-449-8358 daily from 6:00AM until 1:00AM eastern.

First off, I know of no requirement that they have to release the source within 30 days. I would personally be surprised if they released the source anytime soon, as it obviously has some serious bugs right now. Just guessing, but it wouldn't surprise me if we don't see the source released until after we get another update that fixes all or most of these problems.

wfrandy said:
First off, I know of no requirement that they have to release the source within 30 days. I would personally be surprised if they released the source anytime soon, as it obviously has some serious bugs right now. Just guessing, but it wouldn't surprise me if we don't see the source released until after we get another update that fixes all or most of these problems.
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GPL v3 gives a 30 day grace period for the release of source upon written request. History has shown HTC is notorious for violating this.

HTC said:
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
I understand the importance of having the source code for the Android 2.3 (Gingerbread) update for the HTC EVO 4G. I have located the GPL version 2 here: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html
What I beleive that you are refferencing is Section 3, Subpart A of the Terms and Conditions of the GPL version 2 license. This states that one of the options when distributing a Program is to include a copy of the Source code. I.E. to include a copy of the source code with "the complete corresponding machine-readable source code" e.g. phone.
HTC has chosen instead to go with option (Subpart) B of Section 3. This states that we can "Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange."
This again, does not include any terms or conditions that require us to immediately release the source code. It clearly indicates the that the offer must be valid for up to three years and that we must "give" a copy to "any third party." It does not say that the source code must be given immediately upon request from said third party.
Section 3 of the Terms and Condtions also states that "If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering access to copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent access to copy the source code from the same place counts as distribution of the source code, even though third parties are not compelled to copy the source along with the object code. "
This is again the method that we are chosing to supply the source code in. This part of the license clearly states that this distribution can be "made." HTC is currently in the process of making said distribution; that is to say writing and formating the source code (kernal) in such a way as to make it readily and easily (as is a requirement of the license) accessible from our developer website.
We are not choosing to not supply you with the source code. We are simply unable to provide it to you at this time as it is not currently in an easily accessible format.
If you beleive that the GPL entitles you to receive the source code immediately upon request, as opposed to the first available oportunity at the best of our abilities, please provide a quotation of the actual license that states that the source code must be provided immediately upon request and not just "given."
When the code is available, you will be able find it at http://developer.htc.com. I do apologize for any incovnenience.
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HTC said:
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
Thank you for your response.
Please also keep in mind that the software is also under the Apache license. You can read more about why Google choose the Apache License instead of GPLv2 on the following website: http://developer.android.com/resources/faq/licensingandoss.html.
Also, I would like to escalate your issue so that you may receive a call regarding this matter. In order to do this, I will need to know a Contact number that you can be reached at, a time that you can be reached and the time zone you are currently in. I would also like to know the IMEI number of your device. This can be found by going to Home>Menu>Settings>About>Phone Identity. Once I have this information, I will be glad to send it up so that you can receive a call.
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Why would they need this info to give me a link to the kernel?

Received phone call from HTC support regarding Kernel

Hey guys. I posted in a different thread (can't remember which) that I emailed the HTCDev support team basically pitching a b*tch about the fact that Verizon's source has yet to be posted and that HTC is in violation of GPL. I was told it would be escalated and that was roughly a week ago.
I just received a call from HTCDev Support and they have informed me that Verizon's kernel source should be posted on HTCDev in the next day or so. Huzzah! Who said sending random b*tchy emails about stuff doesn't result in anything?
There ya go devs! official kernel source. Have at it! :good:

BreakingVZW said:
Hey guys. I posted in a different thread (can't remember which) that I emailed the HTCDev support team basically pitching a b*tch about the fact that Verizon's source has yet to be posted and that HTC is in violation of GPL. I was told it would be escalated and that was roughly a week ago.
I just received a call from HTCDev Support and they have informed me that Verizon's kernel source should be posted on HTCDev in the next day or so. Huzzah! Who said sending random b*tchy emails about stuff doesn't result in anything?
There ya go devs! official kernel source. Have at it! :good:
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Great news...let's hope nothing holds it up again.

Verizon's network is fantastic but they really, really, really suck at everything else. Okay, maybe not everything, customer service is pretty decent too.

You know what you must do now with your new found power?
Call everyone Congressman and Senator and tell them to pull their heads out off their asses because they are all violating the constitution in some form, or....let the tv networks know that sex is better than violence and they now have to show full frontal or resign.
THE CHOICE IS YOURS, CHOOSE WISELY MY SON/DAUGHTER.
Sent from my HTC's darkside.

Awesome, I sent them an email as well last night. They must have had yours and mine tipped them over. As soon as we get it, I should have something for everyone.
Sent from my Oney Bone.

I'm sure it will be posted right after we get the 4.3 update...
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

kdj67f said:
I'm sure it will be posted right after we get the 4.3 update...
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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They are violating the GPL right now, so they better get it up ASAP.

can't wait to have sweep2wake/sleep and to be able to use the stupid htc logo as a button.

I remember they said the same thing about the bolt years ago and still took forever to get them to release it. It's just a generic response to tell you what you want to hear. So you will leave them alone.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

I just emailed them again saying that it still hasn't been posted after I received a phone call stating it would be "presently" and I made sure to inform them of the GPL violation again. If it isn't there by the time I get off work today (5 EST) then I am going to call the rep I spoke with and ask her what is taking so long. I made sure to get a direct contact number to the rep I spoke with. I'm a little pissed it still isn't there. 5 EST will be exactly 24 hours since I was told it would be posted and since she did say it could take a day I figured I'd give them at least 24 hours before I call and b*tch.

Edit: Delete

BreakingVZW said:
What's with the smart ass response? I wasn't bragging man. Just informing everyone of the news.
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I think it was just a joke...
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

Sorry Breaking, it was only meant as a joke, I wasn't trying to mess with you. I was just surprised that you got an actual response from HTC that appeared that they were listening to their customers for once, and not just the typical form letter response you usually get.
If it rustled your feathers my bad.
Sent from my HTC's darkside.

BreakingVZW said:
I just emailed them again saying that it still hasn't been posted after I received a phone call stating it would be "presently" and I made sure to inform them of the GPL violation again. If it isn't there by the time I get off work today (5 EST) then I am going to call the rep I spoke with and ask her what is taking so long. I made sure to get a direct contact number to the rep I spoke with. I'm a little pissed it still isn't there. 5 EST will be exactly 24 hours since I was told it would be posted and since she did say it could take a day I figured I'd give them at least 24 hours before I call and b*tch. The thing they don't know is I recorded our conversation for proof I was informed of kernel source release just in case.
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Hey dude just wanted to let you know in some places it may or may not be illegal to record a conversation without the other parties consent.
In like two minutes of Google research I have come up with (Assuming you live in the US) that there are about 12 states that require the consent of both parties and about 38 states + D.C only requiring one party to consent.

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/google-taking-aim-at-device-modders-in-android-4-4-kitkat/
This concerns me greatly as a kernel modder...
I am worried they aren't going to release the source code until the One gets the Kit-Kat update, thereby enforcing this dm-verity feature...my only hope is that there is a toggle for it in the source. We shall see.
Still havent heard back from HTC yet on my end, just this: "Thank you for providing this information. I have forwarded your request for the Kernel Source Code to our Specialist. They should be in contact with you within 7-10 business days. They may be in touch with you sooner. It just depends on their current work load as they work on a first come first serve basis. In the meantime, Bryan, I hope you enjoy your week!"

megaorange1 said:
Hey dude just wanted to let you know in some places it may or may not be illegal to record a conversation without the other parties consent.
In like two minutes of Google research I have come up with (Assuming you live in the US) that there are about 12 states that require the consent of both parties and about 38 states + D.C only requiring one party to consent.
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The issue with that is when they record conversations from customers calling in they don't ask for consent right? They just do it. I'm sure it's probably frowned upon. At this point, with how long they've basically not cared about violations of GPL with their refusal to release source, I don't care. Any excuse they try to give us will be BS. T-Mo and AT&T released source for their one. Both 4.1 and 4.1.2. When any of us email to complain about it we always get the same canned "We understand that kernel source code is valuable and essential for all developers..." blah blah blah. They know but they don't care enough to release it. I'm tired of it. I appreciate the warning and I will delete the part about me recording the convo but honestly I shouldn't have had to even felt the need. I had a feeling it was possible they would try to blow smoke up my @$$ and attempt to placate me and say it was being released soon so I wanted documentation. They don't offer transcripts of the conversations freely when you speak to them. Essentially they can say anything they please and not be held accountable for it and that is the exact opposite of customer service and support that HTC likes to claim they pride themselves on. Customer service and support doesn't end at device purchase. You can't claim to be developer friendly and then deny the very thing developers need to develop on the platform.
HTC clearly made one of the best android smartphones of all time. I just wish they would actually support the dev community since, you know, they're "Developer Friendly". Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of waiting... and waiting... and receiving "we know it's important" email responses.

brymaster5000 said:
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/google-taking-aim-at-device-modders-in-android-4-4-kitkat/
This concerns me greatly as a kernel modder...
I am worried they aren't going to release the source code until the One gets the Kit-Kat update, thereby enforcing this dm-verity feature...my only hope is that there is a toggle for it in the source. We shall see.
Still havent heard back from HTC yet on my end, just this: "Thank you for providing this information. I have forwarded your request for the Kernel Source Code to our Specialist. They should be in contact with you within 7-10 business days. They may be in touch with you sooner. It just depends on their current work load as they work on a first come first serve basis. In the meantime, Bryan, I hope you enjoy your week!"
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Yeah I saw that when that story broke on the main XDA page. It seems very anti android. I found it odd Google would be taking that stance.
The response is the first response I received. Then it was exactly a week and I received that phone call last night saying it would be released. I just checked AGAIN and it has yet to be uploaded to HTCDev. I will be calling them and inquiring about it after I get off work as that would be exactly 24 hours since I received their call. Not happy.

res0prw2 said:
Sorry Breaking, it was only meant as a joke, I wasn't trying to mess with you. I was just surprised that you got an actual response from HTC that appeared that they were listening to their customers for once, and not just the typical form letter response you usually get.
If it rustled your feathers my bad.
Sent from my HTC's darkside.
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No man it was my fault. I reacted poorly. I took it the wrong way. Sorry.

I went to the HTCDEV website and looked for kernel source code but wasn't able to find ANYTHING for Verizon's HTC One. I think they just said that as a blanketed response. Hopefully we get the source code this month when they release 4.3

AznInertia said:
I went to the HTCDEV website and looked for kernel source code but wasn't able to find ANYTHING for Verizon's HTC One. I think they just said that as a blanketed response. Hopefully we get the source code this month when they release 4.3
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If that's the case it doesn't make sense. If that's all they were going to do then why even call period? It's a waste of their time and mine. That's an asinine method of customer support. I'd rather them not even call. I didn't expect a call. I expected the "escalation" to be the end of it. This is frustrating as hell. I'm calling them this evening and I will point-blank ask if they ever truly intended to release source or if they were just telling me what I want to hear to shut me up. That line of thinking is idiotic. You tell someone that, when honestly you don't have to (even if HTC wants them to it makes no sense), they are going to follow up.

Open letter to Huawei about releasing the kernelsource for KK

Hello,
while searching through the web I've found a pretty interesting letter, about releasing the ICS-Kernel-source for the HTC Desire S.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1767801
In this letter the community tried to get HTC to release their sourcecode, and finally they won and HTC did release it's source.
In my opinion we should try to make our own letter and send this to Huawei, maybee KanocX allows us to modify their letter and send this to Huawei.
Edit: I have asked KanocX and he gave me permission to use his letter as base.
Dear Huawei,
We appreciate the good quality, look and feel and the design of the Huawei Ascend P6. That’s why our developers have created many ROMs for the phone.
But without the Kit Kat Kernel source code, we are not able to take advantage of all the functions, which need to be implemented to the Kernel.
It’s been a long time since the official Kit Kat was released. Yet the huawei.com website has still not been updated with the kernel source. Also the last firmware source code was in August 2013.
Android is an open-platform and is based on the GNU/Linux Kernel. The Linux kernel is licensed under GNU General Public License v2 or GPL (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html), which means that you are legally obligated to release the source code for any derivative work within a reasonable time frame. This code is free software (free as in free speech) and this means that it is developed by volunteers around the world. They do not wish to earn money with this code, only that it spreads the great idea of freedom and free software. We want to make the software as good as possible and improve what you have currently done.
Developers are working hard to bring new ROMs and continue support to your devices, which many of your customers are eager to use
By releasing the kernel source code you can improve our experiences with the device and with Huawei as a company. The very openness of Android is intended to draw many people and by withholding kernel source code you are ultimately alienating your customers who may move on to purchase devices made by a different company (e.g. a Google Nexus device with pure and newest Android).
Furthermore we know that we can and will lose the phone’s warranty by installing unofficial phone updates, but we, the developers, know what we are doing with the device, so it doesn’t restrict the usage of the phone nor does it affect Huawei in any way.
We are aware that this device is from a previous hardware generation and we are grateful that you are continuing to support it, but we would all be happy if your continued support is not only directed at your customers, but also as required by copyright law.
Please do the right thing and release the Huawei Ascend P6 Android 4.4 kernel source. Thank you.
Sincerely yours, The xda-developers community.
This letter was written and is signed by the xda-developers community.
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Please give me review on this letter and contribute to this, so that we will have a really good letter, which we can send to Huawei.

+1000
Thats a really really good idea, will you write to him to ask if we can use their letter?
Hope they will do that
Here we discussed this also a little bit: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2711870
Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI P6-U06

Yes, I wrote him already
sorry, I had no idea that there is a tread already

+2000
Brilliant ideea.
Count on my signature.

Shutting this, and asking all to go here...http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2711870