I and many many others on this forum and others are tired of waiting for HTC to release the HERO kernel source.
So i have created an online petition, to try to add some pressure on HTC to release it sooner, rather than later.
This is just one of many things we can do to add some pressure,
if you got ideas and suggestions to what we can do to add pressure, share it...!
The petition is located at:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/herokernel/
i really don't think it will make any difference...but good luck trying!
Please sign anyway, as it can't possibly hurt the cause.
Other ways to put pressure on HTC is to make a formal request for the kernel source @ http://www.htc.com via the "Support" pages, and/or tweet @HTC asking why the kernel source is not available.
Whatever you do, you need to make it clear that a response saying that it "will be available on the website shortly" is not acceptable, because we've been hearing that for weeks now.
The GSM Hero has been shipping for months now, and the kernel sources should've be available, by request, on day one!
Regards,
Dave
Just tweet this:
Retweet this! @HTC release the #HTC Hero kernel source! #gplviolation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've signed, forgot about the GPL....
signed and twittert too
signed and twittert
why not just contact the FSF via GPL-Violations.org themselves? they are the authority in enforcing GPL violations after all, and I would be interested in what they think about companies that take ages to release the source.
I would think that it is not actually gpl violation, since they(htc) would argue that the code does not exist in a usable form, so they(htc) have no compulsion to give it out.
(Can't distribute something that doesn't exist)
But i'm not lawyer
And as an aside, i've just been looking at skining the hero, and it seems like the rosie skin added a whole heap of extra stuff not in stock android, so i'm inclined to think that htc might actually just be taking a while to get it sorted
Branwen said:
since they(htc) would argue that the code does not exist in a usable form
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That in itself would be a breach of the GPL! If you ship a product containing GPL'd code, you must be able to supply the modified GPL'd code when the product ships.
And as an aside, i've just been looking at skining the hero, and it seems like the rosie skin added a whole heap of extra stuff not in stock android, so i'm inclined to think that htc might actually just be taking a while to get it sorted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are only talking about the GPL'd kernel source here. I would imagine that most of the HTC apps, including Sense UI (Rosie), are not open source, and therefore HTC is not required to divulge it.
Regards,
Dave
New device new petition. Quick question, have petitions accomplished anything in the pocket pc world? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure HTC hasn't acted on any.
notrock said:
New device new petition. Quick question, have petitions accomplished anything in the pocket pc world? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure HTC hasn't acted on any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A petition is a begging letter. You use them when you have no legal or moral authority.
I think in this case it makes light of soundly based legal and moral authority.
Sam
emailed support, hope it helps....
i just wished devs switch to galaxy instead of htc......... i hate htc anyways
I guess this has reached HTC fast enough, they have already tweeted asked for patience
http://digg.com/gadgets/HTC_Dragging_Feet_On_GPL_Source
I know that there was one earlier Digg, but it was not to an actual Slashdot story. This one is.
slimfady said:
I guess this has reached HTC fast enough, they have already tweeted asked for patience
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'll be all the tweets they received on the subject. Asking for patience, when we've been patient for months is weak!
Regards,
Dave
http://twitter.com/htc/status/4928377685
that's the same answer given on the android 1.6/donut question on the hero.
http://twitter.com/htc/status/4815765882
I don't get why they can't say anything, trust me, if HTC would be saying the hero will be getting the new android rom it will only help them sell more phones
on the kernel sources, they are in violation of the GPL, period.
P.S.
For the people tweeting HTC, share the love and also tweet the EU version of HTC
http://twitter.com/htc_eu
As an open source advocate myself I am eager to see the kernal source released as quickly as possible by HTC. However I am concerned that the FSF putting them under pressure to do do so would be counter productive to the evolution of not only the Android platform but F/OSS itself.
I feel that perhaps it would be better to give HTC a gentle nudge in the right direction and ensure that they fully understand the legal obligation when using modified GPL'ed code on their devices.
namzuf9 said:
I feel that perhaps it would be better to give HTC a gentle nudge in the right direction and ensure that they fully understand the legal obligation when using modified GPL'ed code on their devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is essentially what we've been doing!
Regards,
Dave
signed and twittert too but no paypal donation
Related
This looks like an XDA Developer ROM? Is this guy profiting off this site or is he legit?
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-Upgrade-For...kparms=72:552|39:1|65:12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
yea thats not right on whats hes doing
discussion thread on more ebay ripoffs...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=391615
Anyone who hasn't unlocked orHard SPLed their hermes runs the risk of bricking it.. Wonder what the legal ramifications are of that as he hasnt put on the site that he takes no responsibility for bad flashs... Uh-oh...
Been SUCH a great fan of all the hard work you guys put in to cook a ROM and then see THIS!!!!!!!!
WOT a (put your own word in!!) !!!!!
the name of the seller matches the name on the rom so it could be the rom maker posting it unless he is impersonating the maker.
Read - Face The True
What's up with You guys!
It's my own work - I develop it!
I will never post any of My ROMs on XDA because off Your all attitude - it's such a bad
I don't steal any other work! And if YOU don't know - don't speak.
P.S. I use some software what I can get on this forum, but that's all and we all do it!
Have a nice DAY!
Personally, if Spiaatie cooks his own ROM (and isn't stealing another cook's ROM, as happened to Dutty and others) and doesn't involve XDA in any way, shape or form I have no problem concerning this. Evidently he's got good feedback on eBay and everything seems to have his labels.
There's nothing wrong from profitting from your own work, just leave us (read:XDA) completely out of it.
I totally agree with Dr P. It seems like he has developed his own 6 ROM for other devices and his customers seem happy. It looks like at least one person has bricked his phone but caveat emptor!
Wow. This is cool. Selling pirated software. I bet [email protected] would love to know about this, you know - so they can get you to pay the appropriate license fees etc required to distribute WM builds for profit...
While I don't care that the work is his own, it would be very unwise to sell any pirated or non-legit software on any forum (here or ebay).
EDIT: Oh, and it also violates this section of eBay's policy for listing software for digital download:
"The seller must be the owner of the underlying intellectual property, or authorized to distribute it by the intellectual property owner."
Seeing as I highly doubt you have authorisation to distribute Microsoft Intellectual Property, then you are:
1) Profiting from the distribution of copyright material.
2) Violating ebay policy
3) Probably breaking numerous IP, copyright and distribution laws.
I highly suggest you discontinue this before someone catches on what you're doing.
Totally agree CRCinAU. Saw more than a few IT consulting businesses here in So Fla get busted for selling pirated Novell and Microsoft, not a good thing. It's his a$$, we can't control it. As long as he sh1ts in his own backyard and not ours...
Myself, I'd never draw attention to myself that way, one WILL get noticed... maybe get a visit from Guido and Moose... which would be preferable to Dewey, Cheatem & Howe, PA, ehehehe!
Spiaatie said:
What's up with You guys!
It's my own work - I develop it!
I will never post any of My ROMs on XDA because off Your all attitude - it's such a bad
Have a nice DAY!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, going by your post it seems like you might fit right in. You may need an attitude adjustment yourself man.
Oh, and you are selling other people(s) work as your own (i.e: microsoft).
CRCinAU said:
Wow. This is cool. Selling pirated software. I bet [email protected] would love to know about this, you know - so they can get you to pay the appropriate license fees etc required to distribute WM builds for profit...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like all the other ROM modifers here are doing. You'd love to have this pulled would you? Grow a frickin' brain.
sanquar said:
Just like all the other ROM modifers here are doing. You'd love to have this pulled would you? Grow a frickin' brain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a difference between doing this and giving away your resulting ROM, and doing this and selling the resulting product. That is also what makes or breaks copyright cases - if money was made as a result of the infringements.
CRCinAU said:
There is a difference between doing this and giving away your resulting ROM,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no difference at all. For one there is reverse engineering going on. This just happens to be illegal. Have you read the Microsft EULA? I suggest you do.
As for not selling the ROMS, the people here have donation links, you included. You even mention what the donations will be used for. Get off your morally high horse here. Cooks ask for donations for modifying other people's (MS) code illegally.
I'm not hear to rain on the parade but to think the cooks here are the shining white knights in the eyes of the law, you need a long hard look at yourself.
You are arguing over what criminal activity is right. One just demands payment for the illegally modified ROM, one makes it optional.
cheers,
sanquar said:
One just demands payment for the illegally modified ROM, one makes it optional.
cheers,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this true?
sanquar said:
There is no difference at all. For one there is reverse engineering going on. This just happens to be illegal. Have you read the Microsft EULA? I suggest you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe if you live in the USA - however here in Australia, reverse engineering is quite legal. Remember the lawsuit where Microsoft tried to get the modchip for the Xbox declared illegal? Yeah - they lost. Oh, and DVD players that play multi-region DVDs? Yeah, the media companies lost that law suit too. I guess what I'm saying is don't take some crappy American laws for gospel - most of them don't affect you or me. As for the EULA? I haven't seen one for Windows Mobile in the 4 years I've been using Windows Mobile devices...
As for not selling the ROMS, the people here have donation links, you included. You even mention what the donations will be used for. Get off your morally high horse here. Cooks ask for donations for modifying other people's (MS) code illegally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no morality involved here. If you have read into copyright cases, one of the key factors involved is if there is a direct payment for copyrighted material being sold (at least in Australia). If you must pay a fee to use a ROM (ie via eBay) then that can easily be proven. Donations are just that - donations. They are not a direct payment for an infringing works.
I'm not hear to rain on the parade but to think the cooks here are the shining white knights in the eyes of the law, you need a long hard look at yourself.
You are arguing over what criminal activity is right. One just demands payment for the illegally modified ROM, one makes it optional.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody said what you imply here. Just be aware that there is black and white law that says charging for copyright material is a crime in Australia. In the rest of the world, it might be different - but that doesn't affect you and me as Australians...
Does this thread need to continue?
@CRCinAU - good research brother.
Dr Puttingham said:
Does this thread need to continue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope!!!!
Dr Puttingham said:
Does this thread need to continue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RIP RIP RIP.....
*edit: as many people suggested in the posts. a new single forum for other manufacturers with 1 single subforum per maker might be a better idea than whats suggested in this post**
the mods have explained several times why they are not willing to support other non-HTC devices for various reasons over here so im not gonna ask that. i will however ask that the admins to consider spinning off another site to do that.
there are some other sites that try to do that but they ALL fail miserably because they dont have the ridiculously high number of smart users registered to them. to solve this major problem, i propose that the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site.
the new site may look something like
- windows mobile support and development forums
- htc built devices like palm,xperia...etc
- 1 subforum per device (more if its a very popular devices like xperia X2,omnia, toshiba tg10...etc)
I wasn't aware of the reasoning for no non-HTC device forums. You have a link?
Personally I think we should have subforums for the popular non-HTC devices like i780, Omnia, Epix, SG01, Asus devices, etc. But who am I?
there are many http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=464635
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=463252
and the reasoning is that "jack of all trades is a jackass" or something like that
THE GRIZZ said:
mods: please drop your whack-a-mole hammers and consider this
the mods have explained several times why they are not willing to support other non-HTC devices for various reasons over here so im not gonna ask that. i will however ask that the admins to consider spinning off another site to do that.
there are some other sites that try to do that but they ALL fail miserably because they dont have the ridiculously high number of smart users registered to them. to solve this major problem, i propose that the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site. all that is needed is for the user to confirm the newly created account in the new site (in case some of the users explicitly dont want to register)
the new site may look something like this
- windows mobile support and development forums
- htc built devices like palm,xperia...etc
- 1 subforum per device (more if its a very popular devices like xperia X2,omnia, toshiba tg10...etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, title is misleading.
Second, it's never gonna happen (another site needs more resources, which this site is struggling with.
Third, I give you one day before this thread gets closed.
Cheers
THE GRIZZ said:
mods: please drop your whack-a-mole hammers and consider this
the mods have explained several times why they are not willing to support other non-HTC devices for various reasons over here so im not gonna ask that. i will however ask that the admins to consider spinning off another site to do that.
there are some other sites that try to do that but they ALL fail miserably because they dont have the ridiculously high number of smart users registered to them. to solve this major problem, i propose that the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site. all that is needed is for the user to confirm the newly created account in the new site (in case some of the users explicitly dont want to register)
the new site may look something like this
- windows mobile support and development forums
- htc built devices like palm,xperia...etc
- 1 subforum per device (more if its a very popular devices like xperia X2,omnia, toshiba tg10...etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And add ponderous, overlarge, and un navigatable
sa2.14 said:
And add ponderous, overlarge, and un navigatable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just vote no and spare us your silly negativity. i was merely asking for them to consider it. if its a bad idea it will show from their replies and from the poll.
Third, I give you one day before this thread gets closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
stop suggesting them ideas. and they wont
Its so much easier to add a single "other devices" subforum (not even full section like what they are doing now for every single device device).
this way we all get the advantags of having non-htc devices without the extra work and headache that goes with creating full website page.
i like the " the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site" part though
My opinion is to leave XDA as it is now
Do not add more non HTC forums!
It will just make it slower
Should be around the net good forums for other brands
When have you saw a site together between reebok and nike?
Every one has its own stores
Just my 3 cents
i had the same idea when i bought my omnia
http://winmodevelopers.co.cc
this site deals with all of the non htc devices
((although may i remind you its no way affiliated with this site it just served as inspiration))
it already has a few roms and a marketplace was opened in january, and yes were stuggling with resources but thats the way it is in the shadows lol
any non htc winmo device can be added, although smartphones will be added through poularity
also we are moving the entire site soon to a dedicted server soon courtisy of QUICKSITE and this will take time but feel free to add your nuggets of info to winmodevelopers.co.cc
also take note its a very fimiliar format to xda so u wont get lost
(disclaimers : winmodevs is not an affiliate of xda-developers.com, the onlt connection is certain members including me who frequent both sites)
I think that would be really cool! The TG01 needs to have support from the wonderful ppl @ xda!
ive already got the tg01 there and now ive just installed a chatrrom for geeks
THE GRIZZ said:
just vote no and spare us your silly negativity. i was merely asking for them to consider it. if its a bad idea it will show from their replies and from the poll.
I apologize for your dismissiveness. Only thing I would point out; is that in any enterprise, diminution of effort is really a bad thing. Take the examples of the car cos. just to name a couple. Orb3000 has it right, I've got a motorola device. Found forums that are exclusive to that. I believe that works out the best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jayjay8585 said:
ive already got the tg01 there and now ive just installed a chatrrom for geeks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! Where did you get the TG01 from and for how much?
And guys, let's not be dismissive or overly negative like that please, we should try to be friendly.
jayjay8585 said:
i had the same idea when i bought my omnia
http://winmodevelopers.co.cc
this site deals with all of the non htc devices
((although may i remind you its no way affiliated with this site it just served as inspiration))
it already has a few roms and a marketplace was opened in january, and yes were stuggling with resources but thats the way it is in the shadows lol
any non htc winmo device can be added, although smartphones will be added through poularity
also we are moving the entire site soon to a dedicted server soon courtisy of QUICKSITE and this will take time but feel free to add your nuggets of info to winmodevelopers.co.cc
also take note its a very fimiliar format to xda so u wont get lost
(disclaimers : winmodevs is not an affiliate of xda-developers.com, the onlt connection is certain members including me who frequent both sites)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the site in your signature has more forum sections than actual posts or members. in its current status, it cant complement xda-devs in any way
orb3000 said:
When have you saw a site together between reebok and nike?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well as I understood HTC as a company has nothing with this forum?
And I'm sure reebok and nike wouldn't make site together because each of them want to sell it's sports equipment.
But, if some sport equipment lover make site about sport equipment I'm pretty sure there would be nike and reebok and many others.
I have HTC so I selfishly don't care if there are other devices on XDA-developers.
But if I buy some other non-HTC device some day I would really love to have support for it from great site like xda-developers
cheers
Can someone please explain to me how operating a forum with the amount of members and posts is not a profitable business?
THE GRIZZ said:
the site in your signature has more forum sections than actual posts or members. in its current status, it cant complement xda-devs in any way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well firstly
Board Statistics
Our members have made a total of 272 posts
We have 341 registered members
and theres only bout 23 or 24 forums so that makes ur stateate very brash
secondly you think anything you start now will imediatly get 1.5 million members and chefs will flock and devs will batlle to host there crap on ur site, it doesnt work that way
ive worked really hard to get to the site in it urrent state and itll only get bigger
also you have to take into account everyone is eih ergreedy or impatient so if theres question asked on wimnmodevs then nobody sticks around too long because they wont answers now
so see as many little members there is that brilliant going when u rememerb the site only been opened for 6 months and xda has been going for years
but then again u sdont have to use it, thee are a few who are. but i mean if you really dont like it and if its that bad feel free to trawl around xda asking bout it when theres one there
btw this wasnt meant to sound *****y if it did i apologise im just saying if u want a new site at the drop of a hat that has this much support then it not happening im afraid site like this take time
Ok then. Whoever is willing to pay for the major bandwith and whatnot step right up and pay.
Usually I have never comment on those post ”we should get additional None HTC device listed here” but now I will give my 2 cents on this subject. THIS IS MY PERSONALY OPIONIEN I DON’T MEAN TO INSULT ANYONE!!!!:
I NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY WE SHOULD NOT LIST NONE HTC DEVICES.
This forum has started to developt WinMo and during that time HTC were first manufucturer of such device. However this forum became so famous in last 8-10 years so that when you type anything WinMo related word in Google or any other search engine it leads you at least few times back to this forum. So with Such search engine power many old and new brilliant people come here to meet and share their knowledge. With Such knowledge base and information the searchengine crawlers are as I believe the most band wide consumer.
Now been this site so famous and this site been only on HTC devices, gives actually VERY BIG Marketing advantage to the “Company HTC” As I believe over the years HTC owns some of their popularity to this forum but DOESN’T HAS TO PAY SINGLE CENTS. I mean many other companies paying hard cash to make their names and their products popular in the search engines so that consumers can find them easily.
Furthermore we all here given so much feedback on our Dream devices or find so many mistakes on the current device models so that HTC itself can learn and align them self for future devices or even make correction on next produced patch for devices that are still in production. Again all these are for free of charge and without making expensive surveys. I assure you for HTC it is a kind of Gold mine here.
I personally believe competition amount of the manufacturer can bring only advantage to the consumer. This is for price and for quality!!!
Therefore As I believe continuing supporting only HTC devices here in XDA_DEV gives HTC big advantage on the mentioned COMPETITION and hurt as Consumer!!!
Be frank I don’t believe on those sister forums or what so ever (again I don’t wanted insult anyone’s idea it is just my opinion)
my simple mathematic is:
A forum based of people…people brings Knowledge/information…Knowledge/information brings search engines…. Search engines bring people.
From my experiences building a forum and been successful (popular) is very very Long and hard job
[FONT="]Conclusion of above I would say we should Support here also none HTC devices[/FONT]
redbandana said:
Can someone please explain to me how operating a forum with the amount of members and posts is not a profitable business?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look arround you will obviously see that this forums attention is not making money!!! But I do fully agree with you that there is alot of opertunity to turn this site to BIG CASH...
However according the websiteoutlook (http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.xda-developers.com) it stands not to bad there:
Net Worth $1.04 Million Daily Pageview 474342 Daily Ads Revenue $1425.48
I'm really getting sick and tired of waiting for HTC to release the kernel source, it's simply not on that they can release the EVO's kernel about 2 days after it's released and the Desire is still as of yet without any source code released. Stock kernels =
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/desiresrc/
I vote for starting a petition.
HTC is obliged to release the kernel sourcecode in a timely fashion when formally request under the GNU public license.
I've e-mailed them a few times about it, they gave me the run-around by saying 'oh, we can help you with that. Check developer.htc.com!'
D'oh. I hate them playing dumb.
I'd be up for signing a petition. Get one started and we can do this properly. I want overclock etc on Sense roms plz!!!
Oh and it will help us to add trackpad unlock as trackpad wake is pointless without it!!!
why wouldn't google do something about it?
after all it's their OS rite?
Just keep e-mailing them, they're legally obliged to release it.
HTC is in serious violation of copyright law at the moment by distributing the software but refusing to release source code to the kernel. An indefinite 'they'll get around to it' doesn't make it legal.
Screw a petition.
Someone needs to take them to court. Or at least send a letter with loads of legal mumo jumbo reminding them of their obligations...
Any lawyers here with a bit of spare time...if there are I'm sure we will all give in a good word when we get to heaven for you (sorry) if you can help us.
As many users as possible should report HTC http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
bradputt said:
why wouldn't google do something about it?
after all it's their OS rite?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not. in truth it's everybody's OS but it belongs most to Linus Thorvalds if it belongs to anyone at all
Juggalo_X said:
As many users as possible should report HTC http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best point of action.
The GPL v2 basically says that if you distribute a binary (i.e. the kernel) you must distribute with it the source code, or provide a written offer to produce the source code on request for at least three years. If you don't meet those requirements you have no right whatsoever to distribute the code, and it's blatant copyright infringement (Linux may be free of charge, but it's copyrighted code).
Someone write to them with that information and request it then
Also right here
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html
The more bad press and and the more GPL type calls they get from other organizations will force them to comply with the GPL or be sued so i say we all get on it. The more users who report the more HTC gets the pressure put on. This is getting rediculous. The Incredible and the Evo had the source out with in hours of the RUU release.
Maybe if someone could write a simple piece of text on here that we could "copy and paste" maybe that would help for the links to GPL violations?.
I am all up for putting a complaint in but i wouldnt have a clue how to word it correctly to get the desired (Excuse the pun) outcome.
Just a thought
I've e-mailed [email protected] and asked politely to make HTC release the code
Keep the mail adresses comming and we'll make sure that the problem gets acknowledged!
HTC's well aware of its legal obligation and frequently breaks the law anyway. Its EULA states:
Until the date that is three years after you acquired the Software, you
may obtain a copy of the source code corresponding to the binaries for
GPL-licensed file by sending a request to HTC customer service at www.
htc.com, and HTC will send you a link to such source code.
That's not actually satisfactory under the GPL (though most people would be happy with it in practice), but they don't actually do that. Requests are ignored or given a 'go to this site' response, where there's no code.
Users should be email HTC as well to put the pressure on.
They don't want to release source code because they don't want us to mess with the frequencies (most likely). That doesn't matter though, no matter how big you are, you still have to obey the licenses.
GPL says they have 60 days after public release of software.
So... wait until days 55-60 before pulling the torches.
They did the same thing for the nexus source.
JCopernicus said:
GPL says they have 60 days after public release of software.
So... wait until days 55-60 before pulling the torches.
They did the same thing for the nexus source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are they not supposed to supply it uppon request even though.
trock79 said:
Did you have permission from the original devs? I don't think so. I understand Jdkoreclipse is not a member here but there were others that were involved including myself. It is not wise to release something you did not ask permission for and obviously did not know what was put into it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
trock79 said:
Where is the credit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
r2DoesInc said:
Should have asked bro. That's all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
synisterwolf said:
Stealing stolen work is still not ok...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have got to be kidding me? Are you serious? Permission from who? Surely not from you or any other half-assed, want to be, developer who, technically, has stolen work from Google, HTC, Motorola, Acer, Samsung, LG, etc. Just because you have altered someone else's work to get it to function on a device that it was not intended for doesn't entitle you to anything. We're talking about files that real devs worked their asses off to get working on specific phone models. In no shape, form, or fashion, have you done any of this on your own. So stop *****ing about something that you didn't earn nor deserve! I hope you don't think that decompiling, tweaking, and then recompiling the actual dev's work makes you special. Can you show us, the community, the permission which you received from any of the developers or manufacturers to use their **** in the first place? If the answer to that question is "no", then you or anybody else who "helps" out in the modification of somebody else's actual work should not receive credit from anyone until you prove that you were given the same permission, regarding the files, that you are asking for in return.
inb4 ****storm
REMOVED.........
I'm so confused right now...
I understand the sentiment behind this topic, but you're presenting it in a very abrasive manner.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
NilsP said:
Well, As much as I enjoy it, I was looking for a good reason to quit "developing" ROM's.
Since your summary of what a "developer" is was so good it convinced me I am just a "hack" so I guess I have a good reason now.
Plus, now that I know I am just a common thief because I never asked Google or even HTC's permission I have even more reason.
Thanks for your help....
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Click to collapse
Truthfully Nils, I don't know how you guys do it anyway. Every thread I've been in on here (with the exception of MIUI and IncROM) has been a bunch of morons screaming for updates and bug fixes, as if the only thing in ya'll's life that should matter is getting their pathetic asses a new ROM fix. I would have blown up long ago if I were you, so you're a much better man than me.
NilsP said:
Well, As much as I enjoy it, I was looking for a good reason to quit "developing" ROM's.
Since your summary of what a "developer" is was so good it convinced me I am just a "hack" so I guess I have a good reason now.
Plus, now that I know I am just a common thief because I never asked Google or even HTC's permission I have even more reason.
Thanks for your help....
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Click to collapse
NilsP, this wasn't aimed at you, but to each their own. Sounds like your mind was already made up. That's solely your decision.
@raptir, I wasn't trying to come off as abrasive. I just wanted to put a few things in perspective. No one should make that big of a deal over files that didn't belong to them originally. It doesn't matter how a person modifies the original file, the idea was someone else's from the jump. It's sickening to watch a new cook get ganged up on by people who wouldn't even have a clue if the original file didn't exist to begin with.
The thread in which I quoted the three people from was going fine up until trock79's post. When a person feels as if the world owes them something, it becomes a situation. Members of the forum need to address crap like this immediately, if only to let people like he/she know that we (the community) is all that matters. Without us, there would be nothing.
justsayinbro said:
You have got to be kidding me? Are you serious? Permission from who? Surely not from you or any other half-assed, want to be, developer who, technically, has stolen work from Google, HTC, Motorola, Acer, Samsung, LG, etc. Just because you have altered someone else's work to get it to function on a device that it was not intended for doesn't entitle you to anything. We're talking about files that real devs worked their asses off to get working on specific phone models. In no shape, form, or fashion, have you done any of this on your own. So stop *****ing about something that you didn't earn nor deserve! I hope you don't think that decompiling, tweaking, and then recompiling the actual dev's work makes you special. Can you show us, the community, the permission which you received from any of the developers or manufacturers to use their **** in the first place? If the answer to that question is "no", then you or anybody else who "helps" out in the modification of somebody else's actual work should not receive credit from anyone until you prove that you were given the same permission, regarding the files, that you are asking for in return.
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Click to collapse
Its just the way it is boss. But every now and then you'll find some cool dudes who don't care about the forks and kangs because they just do this for fun (coincidentally those are the dudes who are so good at what they do that they even know they're gonna get kanged). Stick around and you'll see...
REMOVED.........
I haven't asked HTC, Google's nor VZW permission for any of the files I have posted here and across many forums. While I do not edit the files I guess this would just make me a thief and I shoud pull them all.
How about open source code (which makes up Android and the released code from the hardware manufacturers)?
justsayinbro said:
You have got to be kidding me? Are you serious? Permission from who? Surely not from you or any other half-assed, want to be, developer who, technically, has stolen work from Google, HTC, Motorola, Acer, Samsung, LG, etc. Just because you have altered someone else's work to get it to function on a device that it was not intended for doesn't entitle you to anything. We're talking about files that real devs worked their asses off to get working on specific phone models. In no shape, form, or fashion, have you done any of this on your own. So stop *****ing about something that you didn't earn nor deserve! I hope you don't think that decompiling, tweaking, and then recompiling the actual dev's work makes you special. Can you show us, the community, the permission which you received from any of the developers or manufacturers to use their **** in the first place? If the answer to that question is "no", then you or anybody else who "helps" out in the modification of somebody else's actual work should not receive credit from anyone until you prove that you were given the same permission, regarding the files, that you are asking for in return.
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Dude google's code is meant to be shared... That's why they release SDKs to the masses. It's not stealing. From what I gather from your post and tone of it. You're the thief and call out all the other devs shows the lack of respect you have for them.
justsayinbro said:
You have got to be kidding me? Are you serious? Permission from who? Surely not from you or any other half-assed, want to be, developer who, technically, has stolen work from Google, HTC, Motorola, Acer, Samsung, LG, etc. Just because you have altered someone else's work to get it to function on a device that it was not intended for doesn't entitle you to anything. We're talking about files that real devs worked their asses off to get working on specific phone models. In no shape, form, or fashion, have you done any of this on your own. So stop *****ing about something that you didn't earn nor deserve! I hope you don't think that decompiling, tweaking, and then recompiling the actual dev's work makes you special. Can you show us, the community, the permission which you received from any of the developers or manufacturers to use their **** in the first place? If the answer to that question is "no", then you or anybody else who "helps" out in the modification of somebody else's actual work should not receive credit from anyone until you prove that you were given the same permission, regarding the files, that you are asking for in return.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read the thread and I remember thinking pretty much what you wrote, but I give you credit for coming out and saying it. I doubt you will find much support though as some people have huge egos that need to be stroked.
justsayinbro said:
NilsP, this wasn't aimed at you, but to each their own. Sounds like your mind was already made up. That's solely your decision.
@raptir, I wasn't trying to come off as abrasive. I just wanted to put a few things in perspective. No one should make that big of a deal over files that didn't belong to them originally. It doesn't matter how a person modifies the original file, the idea was someone else's from the jump. It's sickening to watch a new cook get ganged up on by people who wouldn't even have a clue if the original file didn't exist to begin with.
The thread in which I quoted the three people from was going fine up until trock79's post. When a person feels as if the world owes them something, it becomes a situation. Members of the forum need to address crap like this immediately, if only to let people like he/she know that we (the community) is all that matters. Without us, there would be nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the xda rules that we all agreed to abide by before posting here...
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
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Noticed all the quotes are from my thread, so thought I'd comment.
You make a point, but in the wrong manner. While I agree that you shouldn't say others don't have permission if you yourself don't, you should be able to claim some territory. Such as for the fixes that got it working on a particular device. The reason I did not in my thread is because I didn't use any fix from someone, when I mentioned what it was based from, I only used the Motorola software included. The new rebuilt one is from a friend's Droid X. He let me root it and use the system dump of it. So to a certain degree, a can agree with what you are saying, but not completely.
Point of view
Nobody asked for your opinion, yet you give it anyway.
Nobody asked for any of the "devs" to do their work, yet they did it anyway.
Nobody asked Linus Torvalds if they could use his work to build on open source operating system.
Nobody likes it when you steal their work and claim it as their own.
Everyone appreciates when you give credit where credit is due.
Everyone likes it when their hard work is recognized.
Everyone has paid for their device and has the right to modify it in any way they see fit.
You have made your point.
You could make a far more effective point if you used a little character, acumen and respect.
Much love my friends
Sounds like your yelling at r2doesinc OP... uses everyone's work he does...
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Hi everyone,
I started this on Sammobile yesterday (where it is already a sticky). Also, german site Badania has wrote about it now, too. The petition is not started yet, this is only for collecting ideas and knowing about your opinions. Recently there was some 'news' saying that the Wave 3 source code was made open source, which turned out to be untrue (the file released by Samsung was only 130kB big). Big letdown for many of us, and Wave 1/2 source codes were not even mentioned.
The current situation
The thing is, at least the Wave 1/2 users desperately need an open source release to continue enjoying their devices. Both devices are great hardware, they have a big community and developers willing to put in some ellbow grease, but, we don't have the means to fix certain stuff, only Samsung has. You might think about the trouble upgrading Samsung Apps and the trouble with push and SHP in general that many Wave users have experienced in the last few weeks and months. You might think about all the small annoyances that you users ask us CFW developers to fix everyday (but we can't). You may also think of the BadaDroid project, and the tons of work put into developing a working modem driver, still with nothing to show to the public until now.
The last official Wave 1 FW is from July (with little to none improvements over the January XXLA1 release), the last official Wave 2 FW is even older. Some of you think (and with a reason) that Samsung themselves are not willing to do any more updates or fixes for these two devices. They have, more or less officialy, abandoned these devices and are not willing to put in any more work. We, as a community, on the other hand are willing to work on these - without pay even -, but our hands and feet are bound behind our backs due to the Wave 1/2 being closed source. Don't be fooled by our recent successes (design changes, ported chinese keyboard and quickpanel) - reverse engineering is like stumbling through the dark in an unknown environment, and eventually we will come to a standstill. With Bada being closed source, we will always lag behind the likes of Android.
Samsung themselves are no strangers to the idea of openness. They plan to make Tizen an open source project, they also develop highly succesfull Android devices and they also did at least say that they are interested in releasing the Wave 3 source code. Also, they are just now planning a big company image overhaul, with a new logo and a new policy of more openness. But, if nothing is done, they will just forget about the 'old' Wave 1/2 devices - guaranteed.
So, what now?
This is where you, the users, the developers, the mods, the bloggers, everyone in the Bada community come in. I've been playing around for a while with the idea of starting a petition for exactly this: To ask Samsung to release in full the Wave 1/2/3 (or for even more Wave devices) source codes. But wait, don't rush things now!
We need a big, coordinated effort, spanning all the Bada sites around the globe.
We need the petition to operate from a site that's easy to use for everyone (that means no complicated signup and no shady stuff), and we need the petition's text to be multi-lingual, translated in all the languages of all Bada countries: german, turkish, azerbaijani, arabic, polish, czech, french, italian, spanish, and a lot that I have forgotten about. We need a great, short text (not as long as this one) for the petition, so that everyone knows even from a quick glance the why's and the uses of such a petition.
We also need supporters, people willinng to spread the word on other sites, especially the big ones such as XDA or Bada-Turkiye, but also the smaller ones. We need every voice, and we need as many people in this as possible.
We need to give Samsung the choice to either publicly let down thousands of customers, or just, finally, give us the source code that we have been waiting for for so long.
Further proceeding - my suggestion
Now, this is what I suggest now:
Don't rush things - we should be collecting ideas for at least a week until we even think about actually starting a petition.
If you're willing to support this case, spread the word or even find more supporters, let us know here.
Double points if you're also a member of some non-english-speaking Bada community .
If you have any additional ideas or concerns, also let us know - this is what this thread is for, to collect ideas and coordinate this.
We need a good short english text for the petition itself (I may come up with something later myself).
We need translations for this text in as many languages as possible. And, no, I'm not thinking about Google translations, but about the good old manual ones.
Looking forward to your opinions!
Big sorry.
But this petition can only Santa Claus make true...
1.
Samsung is not alone patent holder...
Wave 1-3 use Qualcomm Hardware AND Software...
So Qualcomm patents affected...
Nearly same stuff is in hundrets of devices from other manufacturer too, because also Qualcomm...
Not only Qualcomm... think about Quram...
Security and Compression Algos...
2.
Place holder...
Best Regards
i agree this Samsung release the source code wave 1 2 3
Maybe we should think about making the petition not only about Samsung, but also about Qualcomm and Quram. Hopes for Modem drivers and the like might be slim, but chances are we'll get a step forward, at least being able to do something more. I think Bada libraries source codes are well within the realm of possibility, and we could already do a lot with them.
Also... what else could we do now, hoping to keep the Wave 1/2 development alive?
BTW: Christmas might also be a good time to make our wishes come true .
http://www.change.org/petitions/samsung-we-want-a-good-working-bada-for-all-devices#
Why not continue this petition...
with 1,435 supporters
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best Regards
adfree said:
http://www.change.org/petitions/samsung-we-want-a-good-working-bada-for-all-devices#
Why not continue this petition...
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a good thing, but - I don't think that we will get Samsung to fix it themselves, and the petitions text is not clear about alternatives such as open sourcing. I think it's a different thing.
Hi Guys...
I am a writer from Badaforums.net.
1 month back,we planed to file petition for open source bada and we got good response.
but,after sometime we dropped the plan as we needed some reliable(and known) person to file the petition.
we have a draft ready for the petition...if u want,u all can have a look at this...
we can use this to file petition if u want...I can give the text file(only to reliable person)...
link is as below :
http ://www.badaforums.net/forums/announces/petition-request-samsung-support-bada-update-t7183.html (Refer Image)
Regards,
WaveGuru
Nice...
You mean the attached one?
I hope, it is okay, that I added your portal as Supprter at our article as official supporter...
Taxidriver05 said:
Nice...
You mean the attached one?
I hope, it is okay, that I added your portal as Supprter at our article as official supporter...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes,its OK.
I don't remember whether this is the final draft or not(have to search my machine ) ,but we can use the final one.
but,before that we need to gather support from all sites.
and BTW,Badaforums is not my portal...i am just writer of that forum
Regards,
WaveGuru
waveguru said:
Hi Guys...
I am a writer from Badaforums.net.
1 month back,we planed to file petition for open source bada and we got good response.
but,after sometime we dropped the plan as we needed some reliable(and known) person to file the petition.
we have a draft ready for the petition...if u want,u all can have a look at this...
we can use this to file petition if u want...I can give the text file(only to reliable person)...
link is as below :
http ://www.badaforums.net/forums/announces/petition-request-samsung-support-bada-update-t7183.html (Refer Image)
Regards,
WaveGuru
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! I would, however, suggest to make this a bit shorter. People seem to be too lazy to read these times . Also, set the accent on the Open Source release and include Qualcomm in the petitions recipients list. Although this may sound pessimistic, I'm amost sure that Samsung themselves won't do any development or OS updates for the Wave 1/2 (and smaller Waves) themselves.
I guess I should give some more details. Also, for those too lazy too read the whole text: Just jump to the paragraph that answers your question.
What is this about?
We want to ask Samsung to release the source codes for the Wave 1/2/3 firmwares and Qualcomm to release the accompanying hardware drivers (the Qualcomm part is an additional proposal by me).
Why is this important? / Why should I promote this or participate?
For me personally, this is something of a last hope, especially for the Wave 1/2 devices. I should know being a CFW developer myself: With what we got now, we just don't get far, and there's tons of stuff that we just can't fix (because we don't know how it works, because we can't do any changes... etc). Also, think about the BadaDroid project, which will likely get a big boost from a source code release (modem driver, anyone?). Without the open sourcing we will eventually come to standstill, and that point is not too far in the future.
Why now? / How is this different from earlier petitions?
First of all: This is the first petition specifically made to ask Samsung to release the source code. Now is a good time for this, because Samsung is planning a complete brand makeover over thenext few weeks and months. With this brand makeover comes a new policy of openness, which can only be good for this petition to reach its goal.
"The Wave 3 Bada OS is already open source." / "They'll release anyways because of Open Source Tizen."
I can assure you, it is not. Although this news was on several big Bada news site during the last two weeks, the news turned out to be untrue. The file provided by Samsung is only 130kB big and contains something, but not the Wave 3 source code. It is worse for the Wave 1 and Wave 2 devices, cause these two will be just forgotten about if we don't act. Remember, Tizen is only planned for the Wave 3, and I'm not even sure if that is official.
"This won't work."
Of course, you won't have any guarantees this will work, even if you participate or promote this. The alternative - doing nothing of the like and just hoping for the best - won't most likely do you any good either (read the second paragraph for my personal opinion). Also, we're open to suggestions on how to do this the best way. We want the whole Bada community in this, and we want to listen to your opinions and proposals.
We already have supporters such as german site Badania.de, czech site mojebada.cz, US based site badaforums.net and we're in good hopes of getting even more of the big and smaller ones to support us. This is planned to be a big global effort.
"The modem driver is owned by Qualcomm, not Samsung."
So, you're interested in BadaDroid development specifically? That's right, and that's also the reason why I'm suggesting to add Qualcomm to the petitions recipient list.
Quram algorithms sourcecode is what they sell, so they won't publish it.
Qualcomm AMSS sourcecode - forget it.
Parts of Samsung SHP source - maybe, but from my experience with Samsung HQ I wouldn't count on much. ;P
If we all want to start with this petition,we have to start early and with full proof plan.
but,we will need support from whole bada community and many sites.
I am ready to help...with my blogging and ideas...
Regards,
WaveGuru
We of badaos.net (Iranian Bada forum) are ready to sign the petition. Our forum has 20,000 users (about 3000 active)
Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.
Rebellos said:
Quram algorithms sourcecode is what they sell, so they won't publish it.
Qualcomm AMSS sourcecode - forget it.
Parts of Samsung SHP source - maybe, but from my experience with Samsung HQ I wouldn't count on much. ;P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're 100% right about the Quram (QMG images, anyone?) source codes, and probably about the Qualcomm AMSS source code, too. But, with your new low level BadaDroid modem driver - would we even need the Qualcomm source anymore? Also, for the rest, I think anything will help, right?
k8500 said:
Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I can help too,,
I have a little group named BadaIL, we rleased 5 roms until today..
what can I do?
k8500 said:
Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What should we do as an official supporter?
k8500 said:
Thanks everyone for their support!
Waveguru and nip_miniw, can we add you to the list of official supporters? Maybe also your sites (badaforums.net and badaos.net)? And, don't think wrong if it has gotten a little bit silent here, we're still working on this! But, we also still need more supporters.
If you're willing to help, post here, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi k8500,
I am ready to help u all.I also have a plan in place.if you want,we can discuss this over PM.
but,I believe that making Bada as an open source should be one of the thing in petition.
we should also need to ask Samsung to provide us bugfree bada...as current bada firmware is not bugfree.
if we can't play HD games with current firmware...if we need to switch off our wave every time to clear ram...then its Samsung DUTY to provide us bugfree OS which they promised.
As many said that this will not change anything... Samsung will not do this...
It will be Samsung's decision whether they want to provide their customer bug free product or not ...but as a customer...as a money payer...I want to try to make Samsung realize that what they are doing is not RIGHT.
Thanks and Regards,
WaveGuru
I think...
At first we need an overview, who will officially support this petition...
We (badaNIA) will definitely do so...
Need name of plattform and contact infos...