Develop Bugs

Upgrading beyond native OS's

I've just successfully upgraded my UK Orange SPV M700 to AX3L's WM6 ROM, and enjoying it. However, the relative ease of re-writing a ROM has led me to other questions of a more speculative nature.
I'd like forum members to know that I am not a genius in the mobile OS field, so apologies if my enquiry is 'common knowledge' so to speak, and that my question is purely speculative. I wouldn't be interested in carrying out the modifications to my own handset.
My question is this:
Given the relative ease of modifying and/or installing a new ROM on a Windows Mobile handset, would it be possible to install a non native OS onto a Windows Mobile handset. For instance, the UIQ version of Symbian, used on the P series handsets from SE, and perhaps installing Symbian Series 60 3rd Edition on non touchscreen handsets?

an os are binary files made for the cpu in the device
for an os to be able to boot
the bootloader have to be compatible with the format of the rom
and the rom have to be native binary cpu
and some drivers are required to be present for the device to boot at all
nobody i know off have 100% transfered a rom from one device to another
core kernel and driver related things have to be kept for the device to boot
upgrading a rom to another rom for the same htc device type is easy
upgrading a device to another and newer version of the os but keeping the core of the os and only add the shell and program changes is alot more work for the rom maker

To correct my previous post, Im not sure if using Windows Mobile device to run Symbian UIQ could be considered 'upgrade' more like 'sidestepping' ;-)
I understand the comments about specific programming for the device CPU. But couldn't a software workaround bypass this?
I think the same could be said for Mac and PC. In theory, you could use a G5 to run Windows (not Boot Camp). By just using the physical hardware of RAM, Hard drive and BIOS, (and of course, a CPU workaround, maybe not so much a problem with the newer Intel Macs) surely you could format the Mac structure enough to run Windows XP, and vice versa. And you could surely apply the same theory to a Pocket PC. IF you 'format' the system enough, so its basically just an empty shell, or a blank canvas if u will, you could use it for pretty much anything.
If an iPod can run a version of Linux and even Doom, then, if you so wished and had the inclination to do so, it could run the Creative Zen (or even Zune!) software.
All of these speculative suggestions are of course subject to the physical human interface. But then, the IT guy at work runs a Mac keyboard and mouse on a Dell PC at work..

ianrendall said:
To correct my previous post, Im not sure if using Windows Mobile device to run Symbian UIQ could be considered 'upgrade' more like 'sidestepping' ;-)
I understand the comments about specific programming for the device CPU. But couldn't a software workaround bypass this?
I think the same could be said for Mac and PC. In theory, you could use a G5 to run Windows (not Boot Camp). By just using the physical hardware of RAM, Hard drive and BIOS, (and of course, a CPU workaround, maybe not so much a problem with the newer Intel Macs) surely you could format the Mac structure enough to run Windows XP, and vice versa. And you could surely apply the same theory to a Pocket PC. IF you 'format' the system enough, so its basically just an empty shell, or a blank canvas if u will, you could use it for pretty much anything.
If an iPod can run a version of Linux and even Doom, then, if you so wished and had the inclination to do so, it could run the Creative Zen (or even Zune!) software.
All of these speculative suggestions are of course subject to the physical human interface. But then, the IT guy at work runs a Mac keyboard and mouse on a Dell PC at work..
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well, if you could compile the os for the type of chip in use, write all the drivers , you could in theory get it to work....
there was a project bsck in '05 to run win 95 and 98 on a ppc and they succeded in that
and then we ave linux releases for some ppcs

also got it from some macosX developers that the system being based
on a BSD kernel which was more mature on x86 then on motorola platform
the whole macosX was first developed on pc's but never released
what you ask could be don but it would most likely time more manhours then it would be worth
and could also result in a law suit from the symbian people
you're the only person i've seen to request this i've seen so far
maybe an emulator would be the way to handle it

I'm not actually interested in doing any of this, as you say, it would be pretty pointless and legally troublesome. Just interested in the science of it.

Virtual or Emulated PC engine on Winmo?

we all know we can Run virtual winmo on a PC based machine.
but can we run an emulated PC on a winmo?
not really the whole OS. but something like STYLETAP where you can run some PPC apps on symbian and UIQ devices.
i know some of us wants to run Apps desiged for PC that doesnt have a mobile version yet.

and while we're at it, I'd like to drive my car with my phone, too
oh and make dinner with it as well

Miracles happen at Christmas ...

What about this: http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
I personally do not use it, but some guys got an original Win95 up and running with this on PocketPC.

Dennis78 said:
What about this: http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
I personally do not use it, but some guys got an original Win95 up and running with this on PocketPC.
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It's a cool experiment to run Windows 95 on your PPC, but even on a 528 MHz device like the TP2, it'll still be at best unusable for anything. Bochs is even slower than DosBox when running a full version of Windows, and it just doesn't work well.
@OP: Really, the only thing to do is wait for a full port of whatever PC apps you want to run. Alternatively, you could look into setting up a remote desktop connection, which shows your PC's screen on your phone over a network connection.

Alternatively, you could look into setting up a remote desktop connection, which shows your PC's screen on your phone over a network connection.
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As long as we're making christmas wishes, I'd love to see a new approach to remote desktop connections, for much the reason the OP has in mind. Rather than kicking the screen output straight to your mobile, your PC should reorder the contents and GUI of any particular program to the template of your choice, and then transmit THAT to your mobile. A little scripting, and you've got a perfectly mobile-friendly interface to control the desktop program of your choice. Then when you interact with the reworked interface, the desktop translates your action and carrier it out on the real program.

rorytmeadows said:
and while we're at it, I'd like to drive my car with my phone, too
oh and make dinner with it as well
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my phone makes dinner, its call dominoes.

[Q] [Question]Windows mobile coding program portable?

Hi fellow members of XDA!
I'm making this post to ask all the developers of the comunity if there's a tool able to run from a pendrive where one can code for windows mobile.
Allow me to explain my request please.
I don't spend much time at home and my netbook (an Asus EEE 901 20GB) runs on EEEbuntu. I also don't spend a lot of time at the same place, and as a result I end up using several computers to work in a day (up to 5 so far).
In order to keep my work all in one place I'm became a fan of PortableApps.com and also other (not so legit sometimes) portable applications. But I would also like to make some coding for my own windows mobile device (Samsung Omnia II), bu I can't install 4 or 5 copies of Visual Studio 2008/2005 and Winmo SDK.
So this is the justification for my question.
A program that I can run from my usb pen drive and that allows me to make coding for windows mobile.
Thank you very much.
p.s. Mod once the question is answer in a mature manner please delete the thread to save space on XDA servers

Is it possible that there's not a single person able to answer my question?

VS with WM SDK is quite a hog. Making it portable app without some awesome tool (yes, they exist) is like impossible. Not like impossible, but definitely impossible. What comes to my mind is that you have to have installed ton of SDKs and registred them to GACs and what not. Also VS always keeps your profile in AppData. Yes I know, there exist apps that convert some app to portable one, but this is too big to be loaded directly from flashdrive IMHO. (VS2008+WM6 SDK+WM6.5.3 DTK)

[Q] Anyway to run a win environment on the note? (emulator)

Hi
Been wondering if there was anyway to emulate or run a virtual win environment on our little tab?
Was thinking along the lines of Xp or Win 7...
Anyone?

DeBoX said:
Hi
Been wondering if there was anyway to emulate or run a virtual win environment on our little tab?
Was thinking along the lines of Xp or Win 7...
Anyone?
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Not possible.

Not running Windows per se, but the Microsoft RDP client on Android linked to a Windows PC works very well.
I don't think we'll ever see the Windows kernel running on the Exynos chipset TBH, at the least it would require virtualization or emulation that would require a lot of coding and in any case Windows would place a much larger overhead on the processors than Android or Linux.
Windows RT, the Microsoft "equivalent" of Android (i.e. designed to run on a low-powered chipset), has not been very well received due to its much reduced command set. It looks like Windows desktop, but it cannot run full-blown Windows desktop applications.
FWIW

Ok, figured I'd ask. I know there were a decent number of virtualisation projects a while back, but usually focused around win98 etc
Though I'd love a stripped xp version on this tab

Could always use Citrix Receiver

could you elaborate a bit?

DeBoX said:
could you elaborate a bit?
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Heres a link all the info is there most probably best to use gotomypc By the same devs though mate.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.citrix.Receiver

Well contrary to the "impossible" brigade... a VM with CPU emulation allows all kinds of impossible feats.
PearPC being an example or VirtualPC on old PPC Macs, etc etc. ! There are of course limitations. But the point is x86 & some basic HW emulation will allow you to run Windows as long as what's being emulated is of good enough spec for the version of Windows you want.
The bottleneck is almost always the speed the CPU emulation runs at, and that depends on both host and target architecture and there are different approaches with different advantages/drawbacks.
I've used BOCHS on my 10.1 (original) to run win98 (slooowly) - and others have got XP running (google is your friend) I chose 98 as it's basically DOS +GUI so I figured it might work better. I've not invested a lot of effort as the emulation and integration of UI elements isn't brilliant (yet).
There's a link here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1389700
There are other x86 emulators like DOSBOX/QEMU running on ARM but as with all emulation it's never going to be as quick as a real CPU! That said some DOS games play well I believe.
I've not tried it on my 10.1 (2014) so can't comment on how it good it is there. Can't see how it would be worse!
YMMV.

Windows 10 on RPi 2

I decided to start a new topic 'cause previous one was a complete mess.
So, finally I ran Windows 10 on my RPi 2 and was really excited by the job that MS did for this low cost computer. It was a really easy to run your UWP app on RPi with a little changes; now I'm trying to run my "DOSBox" app on this computer (but DOSBox isn't a simple and straight UWP app, some difficulties still exists).
I still have no idea about practical implementation of the RPi-based Windows 10 computer but, I believe so, it should exist (BTW, I do have very good sample of practical usage of RPi - my another one - it run self-moving web camera (former robot app ), it controlling my X10 lights and switches via web interface (yes, I do have Apache server running on this RPi), this RPi also serving my huge OPDS library.
By the way, it's a really cheap and exciting gadget (you can get it for about $22 on eBay), and the "Last of the Mohicans" UWP developers definitely should take a look to this gadget and platform! Fun guaranteed!

I.ll like to use this with cortana in the car, just for music and vocal commands.
JHey cortana, play voodoo people..... skip song, send message to Sensboston...good job buddy
Or.... https://9gag.com/gag/ad9LqQB

sensboston said:
I decided to start a new topic 'cause previous one was a complete mess.
So, finally I ran Windows 10 on my RPi 2 and was really excited by the job that MS did for this low cost computer. It was a really easy to run your UWP app on RPi with a little changes; now I'm trying to run my "DOSBox" app on this computer (but DOSBox isn't a simple and straight UWP app, some difficulties still exists).
I still have no idea about practical implementation of the RPi-based Windows 10 computer but, I believe so, it should exist (BTW, I do have very good sample of practical usage of RPi - my another one - it run self-moving web camera (former robot app ), it controlling my X10 lights and switches via web interface (yes, I do have Apache server running on this RPi), this RPi also serving my huge OPDS library.
By the way, it's a really cheap and exciting gadget (you can get it for about $22 on eBay), and the "Last of the Mohicans" UWP developers definitely should take a look to this gadget and platform! Fun guaranteed!
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Click to collapse
Great project i have about 50 low performance laptops and mini laptops its so good for them
I will try this in next year and I will tell you the result
can you port and install ppsspp on that and tell us the results ?

@augustinionut, yeah, Cortana is cool but you can do this on your handset (never tried but it should work, I believe so). I'm thinking about RPi specific scenario. Yes, I can make a blinking LEDs, it's fun but not very practical
@Ferrybigger, I can try. But I'm unsure about overall performance; it looks like RPi CPU is less powerful than L-950 (and has less memory).
P.S. I also ordered this LCD TFT touch screen on AliExpress, it will add more fun for development

sensboston said:
@augustinionut, yeah, Cortana is cool but you can do this on your handset
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Only that hey cortana dont work on lumia 640xl, and my media bluetooth button dont have win+c command.
I need an app in the background to launch listening cortana.
I found something equivalent: snowwy.

Tried to rebuild and run ppsspp: no luck at all, always getting error 0x800402200 before app's code get execution.

I prefer using Linux for such devices. It's lightweight and flexible. It's easy to use: you can draw on any display with just Bitmap and FileStream. LOTS of drivers! LOTS of programs.
Win10 IOT is not on the same level yet. But it will be someday.
P.S. RPi hardware is garbage.

Yeah, Raspbian is pretty stable and with some configuration tricks (to reduce file I/O access on sd-card) it can work seamlessly for a years (as mine), even with Apache server running on it.
However here I'm talking from the UWP developer position: ability to run your existing UWP app on the extremity low cost (mine costs me $22), portable computer is cool, I believe so.
I can't compare development difficulties for UWP and Linux but some MS public APIs are still ... maybe, not unique but really good, such as map services, easy integration with Azure, speech API and many more. Of course you can find similar packages on Linux but with UWP you already have it out of the box.
P.S. I'm still thinking about "real life" implementation of RPi with W10 but can't find any...

Windows 10 iot core is the os that runs on the raspberry pi. It started out with windows on devices edition on the intel galileo (x86) (2013). The windows on devices edition was probably microsoft's smallest os since windows 95 (only 185mb). The windows iot os has come a long way since then as they have been refactoring the os to include more and more of the apis windows developers know. You can use gdi to paint windows on raspberry pi, and i think directdraw (but have not tried it myself). Porting apps to windows iot core is difficult, but using the remote debugger you can see apis that fail because they aren't included. Once you get around the missing apis issue, you can easily create apps that work directly with hardware, which is something thag's always been difficult with windows ( you used to have to buy a development board ). Using visual c++ to remotely debug drivers is really convenient, as windbg is too difficult.