bigger 3400 mah of 3T for 3 - OnePlus 3 Questions & Answers

Can it be done as..? As their is no physical dimension changes.. Can we assume that bigger battery could be installed in our op3....?

They said no many times over.

They use the same sized battery, but charge it to a higher voltage, thus giving it more capacity.

Daemos said:
They use the same sized battery, but charge it to a higher voltage, thus giving it more capacity.
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note7 the 2nd...? Sounds a bit daft to charge to a higher voltage. If it was this easy wouldn't all manufacturers max out the batteries?

I was wondering the same if its possible from the software side?

G0dofWar said:
I was wondering the same if its possible from the software side?
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bonerp said:
note7 the 2nd...? Sounds a bit daft to charge to a higher voltage. If it was this easy wouldn't all manufacturers max out the batteries?
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No its a total different battery. If we charge it to 4.4 we will ruin the cells. And no it won't explode.

WTF are you talking?! The capacity of the battery has NOTHING to do with the voltage. The voltage only depends on the used (cathode) materials of the battery. The capacity can only be increased by making the battery (cells) bigger or with a higher density like Lithium Polymer batteries. You can't just load a battery to a voltage you want. Every material has it's rated voltage and charge end voltage.
What do you learn at school guys? That's absolutely embarrassing.

But you can reduce the voltage you take out from the battery.
Use fairpark governor, you'll get 10 hrs screen on time out of which 90 percent of the time you won't feel it's slow.

darshakjust4u said:
But you can reduce the voltage you take out from the battery.
Use fairpark governor, you'll get 10 hrs screen on time out of which 90 percent of the time you won't feel it's slow.
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Most certainly you will

Gerrit507 said:
WTF are you talking?! The capacity of the battery has NOTHING to do with the voltage. The voltage only depends on the used (cathode) materials of the battery. The capacity can only be increased by making the battery (cells) bigger or with a higher density like Lithium Polymer batteries. You can't just load a battery to a voltage you want. Every material has it's rated voltage and charge end voltage.
What do you learn at school guys? That's absolutely embarrassing.
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Well, the voltage is in fact raised. Did they change materials? Maybe, we don't know and frankly we don't care.
All we know is that the batteries are physically the same size and that those in OP3 run at 4.35V and those in OP3T run at 4.4V.
Clearly there has to be more differences (density, that you mentioned).
Sent from my OnePlus 3 using Tapatalk

Explorer23 said:
Well, the voltage is in fact raised. Did they change materials? Maybe, we don't know and frankly we don't care.
All we know is that the batteries are physically the same size and that those in OP3 run at 4.35V and those in OP3T run at 4.4V.
Clearly there has to be more differences (density, that you mentioned).
Sent from my OnePlus 3 using Tapatalk
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OnePlus did confirm that the chemical composition is different. I know swapping is recommended, but theoretically, would it be possible ?

Hmm, that's very interesting! I'd be willing to try, if the parts are readily available.
However, I'm pretty sure the connector from the old to the new battery isn't the same. Apple changed this with every iteration, to prevent this exact thing.

Even if you changed the battery. The charging circuit in the op3 would still cut off at the voltage for the standard op3 battery.
Then there is the possibility that the batteries have different charging requirements so you could damage the new battery by charging it incorrectly with the op3 circuit.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Y'all. You're all right. They increased the size of the battery AND the voltage outputted. The phone uses more power than the OnePlus 3, it needed a bigger battery to have the same screen-on-time while having a higher voltage. There's no way you'd ever put this battery in the OnePlus 3 without frying half the phone.

Err, from what I understood when reading all info made public on this, is that they changed neither the size nor the density of the battery. They just made a slight chemical change to make the battery more stable, allowing them to increase the safety voltage threshold from 4.35 to 4.4.
Basically, on 1+3 the battery connector on the phone doesn't allow charging over 100% which is equivalent to the limit of 4.35 safe maximum voltage.
On the 3T, it allows to charge up to on what would be 113% on the 1+3, because it allows charging till it reaches the new maximum safe voltage of 4.4... which just happens to be an extension of 13% in charge.
The absolute top limit capacity of both batteries are the same, but that is highly unsafe overvoltage territory, where the probability of either batteries burning like molten lava would be almost guaranteed (it is how lithium Ion batteries ignite, they don't explode like a grenade, unless you seal them up inside a strong solid structure where internal pressure would skyrocket, which is not the case with phones).
If you changed batteries, most likely it wouldn't make a difference on the 1+3 since the connector there stops charging the battery when it reaches 4.35 volts.

A volt isn't a measure of the amount of power in a battery. Let's use the analogy of a jug of water - volts would be the rate that water comes out of the jug, or more specifically, the water pressure. Amps (milliamps in this case) would be the size of the hole, and mAh would be the amount of water in the jug. Voltage was raised .05 volts - more water coming out would drain the jug faster, so they put more water in the jug to compensate. The system draws more power - they were just compensating. I don't know the actual screen-on-time, but I would expect them to be pretty much the same.

now that's a something bigger battery is limited to software hmm... Thanks Jerry for awesome work..

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Lets try to keep this civil guys. Do not disrespect each other on this site. If you have something constructive to contribute then by all means post but if all you can do is name call then just dont reply.
Thanks
Wolf

Just to add this to the discussion. A 0,05V delta is even for micro-electronics a quite small difference. As I own like 20 or even more lithium-ion batteries for modelmaking for example and a really good charger which is precise to 0.01V that same models of batterys can have up to 0.1V voltage difference or sometimes even more. Furthermore the voltage drops from degeneration. I can assure you that battery would work on the OnePlus3. It might not fully charge because the charging electronics think it's the other battery but it would work...
---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------
SynisterWolf said:
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Lets try to keep this civil guys. Do not disrespect each other on this site. If you have something constructive to contribute then by all means post but if all you can do is name call then just dont reply.
Thanks
Wolf
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Thanks

The OP3T battery should work. It just won't fully charge. You need to change the end voltage trigger from 4.35 to 4.4
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app

Related

Any way of posrting one x + battery

As most of the config are same is there any possibility we can port one x + battery in to our one x by changing the case or by using the same case. That's the only one I need from one x +
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Hi
forumhookersdotcom said:
As most of the config are same is there any possibility we can port one x + battery in to our one x by changing the case or by using the same case. That's the only one I need from one x +
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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It depends. If the battery isn't the same size then no it isn't going to be possible as physically it will not fit.
Even if the same size, the charging circuit may not fully charge the battery so the extra capacity isn't realised easily in the current model.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
Even if the same size, the charging circuit may not fully charge the battery so the extra capacity isn't realised easily in the current model.
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That's not how battery charging works. It would charge fine.
Hi
BenPope said:
That's not how battery charging works. It would charge fine.
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Not if the maximum voltage for a full charge is different. Typically lithium ion charges to 4.1 to 4.2 volt depending on the battery and design, the lower full charge voltage will favour longevity over capacity, the higher voltage utilises the full capacity of the cell but stresses the cell more lowering it's life time.
If the HTC One X+ battery is designed to be pushed to a slightly higher voltage to achieve the higher capacity fully, and/or being allowed to drop to a lower voltage during it's duty to get the extra, then the charging circuitry in the HTC One X will not realise the full extra capacity, it will charge fine, but the extra capacity will not be seen.
If the max/min duty voltages are the same, then it will charge just fine to full capacity, assuming the data connections are identical between the cell and the phone that is. However in this case it is more likely the extra capacity is then achieved by a bigger battery, so it will not fit. The FCC information already shows a different placement arrangement for the antennas so the internals are arranged differently and what we are probably looking at is a slightly bigger battery.
Another issue if it fits and works is the charging will take longer. For safety the charging circuit in the phone has a safety timer calibrated to work with the original battery, if the charging takes longer than expected (as it would with the higher capacity battery) the charging is halted to avoid the potential for an explosion, so unless this timer is also changed, or is set automatically by data supplied from the inbuilt battery protection circuit, it might prove problematic charging the higher capacity battery, especially from flat to full, as the safety timer will terminate the charge before the battery is fully charged.
Regards
Phil
I strongly suspect that the charge voltage is the same and any timer is unlikely to kick in as it will have plenty of headroom.
The difference is most likely due to physical size or perhaps an improved charge density.
We can order one x+ battery and case if it charges well and works good right . Are you sure it won't works ?
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
BenPope said:
I strongly suspect that the charge voltage is the same and any timer is unlikely to kick in as it will have plenty of headroom.
The difference is most likely due to physical size or perhaps an improved charge density.
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I have doubts that htc will make the battery interchangeable as they would suspect that one x owners would attempt a battery swap.
Anyhow the battery will not be, at least theoretically, interchangeable, as you aren't supposed to open the housing.
So that wouldn't be a worry.
Phil, what you say regarding a timer is total nonsense.... If u keep your phone plugged in and play a game in the meantime, charging can take also the whole day, because you're using the battery in the meantime.. BUT it is charging!! Charging does not interrupt after a specified amount of time..
What the phone, and also any other phone has, is a circuit which is stopping the charge when battery is full. How does it know the battery is full? This circuit is not in the phone but in the battery
Regarding the charging voltages and so - again nonsense... The voltage of a battery is fixed. It does not vary at all or if it does it is a measuring error. Nor does the charging voltage. This is again fixed.
(of course nothing is perfect, they can vary, but with 1% or even less, must be a tolerable error.)
When charging a battery what may vary and it depends on the charger is the electrical current's intensity (measured in amperes).
Putting a battery with a higher capacity in the phone will have the following results:
1. Longer battery life
2. Slower charge
But if the battery has the same voltage (and i think it does) it will work, and it will charge fully!!
Most probably htc is using the same voltage on all their phones...
If this is true, the only thing that could stop us from changing the battery will be the form factor of it....
Sent from my HOX InsertCoin using xda app-developers app
Charging lithium ion batteries is two phase; firstly, constant current, where the voltage is variable, and then constant voltage, where the current is variable.
Thx mate well still... From experience with other phones where i changed my battery- i don't think the charging process will be an issue... Usually a manufacturer uses the same process of charging with all phones or at least similar models.... I swapped li-ion batteries with li-pol and had no issue at all
So if form factor will be the same, in my opinion it will work!
Sent from my HOX InsertCoin using xda app-developers app
Let me know if any one tried swapping
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Battery issue

Dunno how to say it in English but physically my battery is getting bigger, and when on battery low, it gives me the notification and the phone just turns of on the same second.
The battery is starting to be like a balloon and and hardly fits in the phone, can anyone tell me what's happening?
btw, I'm using the stock ROM now.
Your battery is bloated. Congratulations. To fix this, there is only one solution. Change your battery.
Sent from my 4.1 running Galaxy W.
Great
iDelta said:
Your battery is bloated. Congratulations. To fix this, there is only one solution. Change your battery.
Sent from my 4.1 running Galaxy W.
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Thanks for the reply, but does anyone knows why did this happen? My device is 1 year old last week, it shouldn't happen that fast I guess.
Osoris said:
Thanks for the reply, but does anyone knows why did this happen? My device is 1 year old last week, it shouldn't happen that fast I guess.
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there are many reasons why your battery is bloated .......... one of charging too much time away from his proper time, time you charge the phone you are using (playing games) .....
sorry with my english
Correct
hazikh said:
there are many reasons why your battery is bloated .......... one of charging too much time away from his proper time, time you charge the phone you are using (playing games) .....
sorry with my english
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I use it a lot while charging specially for games, and lots if times I had to charge it while it's still have more than 40%. OK lesson learned and the new battery will be treated differently. Thanks.
Osoris said:
I use it a lot while charging specially for games, and lots if times I had to charge it while it's still have more than 40%. OK lesson learned and the new battery will be treated differently. Thanks.
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Hi, found this on eHow and as automobile electrician dealing sometimes also with batteries i cannot confirm that your battery was bloated just because of playing games an charge phone at same time. Li-Ion cells don't like to be fully discharged. When u charge them before they go out of power is the best you can do to preserve their capacity.
Don't use your phone with silicon case when gaming because it can prevent air ventilation in the phone and cause it to heat up more when placed under heavy load like when playing games.
And now what can contibute to a battery bloatup:
Battery Components
• Most cell phone batteries contain a lithium-ion mixture. Lithium is an alkaline metal, and its ion simply has more electrons than protons. The battery also contains a positive and negative electrode, and when you use the battery, the lithium ions move from one to the other, creating an electric charge. Under normal circumstances, the lithium ions can continue to absorb and dissipate energy. However, if you expose the battery to certain conditions, its chemistry can change, causing undesirable effects.
Water Damage
• Your cell phone battery is extremely sensitive to water. The plastic casing provides some protection; however, if you expose the metal electrodes to water, they can corrode and become ineffective. Water leaking into the batteries case can cause it to appear bloated. Discard such a battery immediately because the lithium solvent can be harmful if you come into contact with it. If the phone has been submerged in water, this is usually enough to cause water damage to the battery if there is not a tight seal between the battery and the phone.
Heat Damage
• The lithium solvent that carries the charge from electrode to electrode is extremely sensitive to heat. If you expose the phone to temperatures that considerably exceed 77 degrees Fahrenheit, the battery may lose its ability to hold a charge over time. This is considered normal. However, if you consistently expose it to higher temperatures, then you can cause the lithium-ion mixture to rupture the cell, which can cause the battery to appear bloated. Most lithium-ion batteries contain fail-safes that prevent them from operating in extreme temperatures, but there is no guarantee that these will work in every case.
Prevention
• Prevent damage of this sort from occurring by not exposing your phone to extreme temperatures and unsafe environments. For example, do not bring your mobile phone near pools or inside of saunas. On hot summer days, keep the phone and other electronics out of direct sunlight.
try doctor battery, its available at the store free,
bhun said:
Hi, found this on eHow and as automobile electrician dealing sometimes also with batteries i cannot confirm that your battery was bloated just because of playing games an charge phone at same time.
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But I can confirm this. I´m having actually here 4 batteries for the SGW and one of them is bloated due to heavy usage while charging the battery. This battery was my best battery but now it´s just a paperweight. It´s still working well though it´s bloated, but I´m not going to risk anything.
You can´t simply compare a car with its lead battery to this device, because in the car the battery is just needed to start the car. Once the engine is running the battery is not needed as the generator is producing enough electricity for the entire car and to charge the not needed battery.
You can even remove the lead battery completely and just connect the car to a powerfull enough source to get it started. Onec its running, you can remove the source too and it will continue to run.
With the SGW and its LI-Ion battery things are a bit different. You for example can´t simply plug in the charger and turn the device on without the battery. The battery is still neeeded to power on the device for two reasons. First is the charger might be not strong enough to offer enough power but the obvious one is, the circuit inside the phone reduces the charging current to a max. level and the voltage to be 4.2V max. It acts like a constant current and constant voltage source where the preset max limits can´t be exeeded. The real charging current and voltage are depending to the charging level and the battery resistance, but will never exeed the max limits in a proper working circuit.
Additionally this circuit is feeding the battery directly, so the current is floating first into the battery and then the battery is feeding the entire device. So at heavy usage the power offered by the circuit will be not enough to be simply passed to the device and so the battery will be stressed twice, as it´s charging and discharging at the same time.
This is still a simplyfied explanation to what is really going on, but explains a little bit why you can´t compare a car with it´s battery to this device.
Also, the batteries for the SGW do not offer it´s own protection circuit. The only circuit that protects the battery is build in into the phone.
So the best advice that can be given here is to avoid heavy usage while the battery is being charged. Better charge it first, use it then and recharge when not in use.
bhun said:
Lithium is an alkaline metal, and its ion simply has more electrons than protons.
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I´m not sure where you digged this out, but this is simply not the full truth. In neutral stage each element is having as much electrons as much protons it has. Ions are either having temporaly more or less electrons. They can be ionized positive or negative.
In a normal Li-Ion battery it´s the anode that consists of lithium and is having positive lithium ions, so less electrons than protons.
In a lead battery both, the anode and the cathode consist of lead. One is positive ionized and the other one negative.
honeyx said:
But I can confirm this. I´m having actually here 4 batteries for the SGW and one of them is bloated due to heavy usage while charging the battery. This battery was my best battery but now it´s just a paperweight. It´s still working well though it´s bloated, but I´m not going to risk anything.
You can´t simply compare a car with its lead battery to this device, because in the car the battery is just needed to start the car. Once the engine is running the battery is not needed as the generator is producing enough electricity for the entire car and to charge the not needed battery.
You can even remove the lead battery completely and just connect the car to a powerfull enough source to get it started. Onec its running, you can remove the source too and it will continue to run.
With the SGW and its LI-Ion battery things are a bit different. You for example can´t simply plug in the charger and turn the device on without the battery. The battery is still neeeded to power on the device for two reasons. First is the charger might be not strong enough to offer enough power but the obvious one is, the circuit inside the phone reduces the charging current to a max. level and the voltage to be 4.2V max. It acts like a constant current and constant voltage source where the preset max limits can´t be exeeded. The real charging current and voltage are depending to the charging level and the battery resistance, but will never exeed the max limits in a proper working circuit.
Additionally this circuit is feeding the battery directly, so the current is floating first into the battery and then the battery is feeding the entire device. So at heavy usage the power offered by the circuit will be not enough to be simply passed to the device and so the battery will be stressed twice, as it´s charging and discharging at the same time.
This is still a simplyfied explanation to what is really going on, but explains a little bit why you can´t compare a car with it´s battery to this device.
Also, the batteries for the SGW do not offer it´s own protection circuit. The only circuit that protects the battery is build in into the phone.
So the best advice that can be given here is to avoid heavy usage while the battery is being charged. Better charge it first, use it then and recharge when not in use.
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Sorry if it souded as i would compare a Li-Ion to a lead battery. I was actually not doing that. By that i meant that i understand somewhat of batteries. I've learned about batteries (how different types work) back in school. All Li-Ion based batteries have their own protecting circuit. It is not depending on the phone. This circuit built in every Li-Ion based battery prevents it from beeing overcharged, wich would result in the battery exploding. It also gives the phone a limited feedback on battery charge status, and perhaps somewhat potecting the battery to be fully drained wich would result in irreversible damage to the cells. I agree with you that it is better to charge when not using them, but in real life this is not easy to do when you (by what cause ever) want or have to use your device. I am not a gamer so i am not using my phone that way.
Since i am using my phone lots of times plugged on a charger, making phonecalls and doing other stuff like email, surfing the web, watching videos and so on, and never get close to that issue (battery is almost 2 years old) i still don't think that that would be the biggest problem.
On hot days is it not recommended to use our devices with heavy loads, ofcourse you could climb into the fridge (may not be a problem then), and it is also advised to avoid humidity. That's all i know for now, that it would contribute to a bloated battery.
Sorry if i unattendedly caused some confusion.
bhun said:
Sorry if it souded as i would compare a Li-Ion to a lead battery.
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No problem, I´m just trying to clarify this
but with this I have to disagree
bhun said:
All Li-Ion based batteries have their own protecting circuit. It is not depending on the phone. This circuit built in every Li-Ion based battery prevents it from beeing overcharged, wich would result in the battery exploding. It also gives the phone a limited feedback on battery charge status, and perhaps somewhat potecting the battery to be fully drained wich would result in irreversible damage to the cells
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Not all Li-Ion batteries have their own protection ciurcuit. Only the protected ones. Do a search on google about protected and not protected Li-Ion batteries.
In cellphones most batteries are not protected ones because of the circuit taking to much space and so incrasing the battery size a lot. Therefore the protection circuit gets moved into the phone but the battery itself is not protected at all. In most batteries the feedback you will only get is the temperature. It´s mostly a simple thermistor either being somwhere close to the battery or inside the battery. The rest is calculated by knowing the capacity and monitoring the voltage and current drain.
So the only circuit you will find in not protected batteries is the one for reading the thermistor, if there is one build in. But this circuit will not protect the battery against a short circuit.
Just to not confuse about this. There are of course protected batteries for cellphones as long the circuit can fit into the part where the connections are.
But the truth is this circuit can fail to disconnect the battery from a short circuit and there are even batteries with fake protection. So there is a pcb with a circuit, but this is just fake and doing nothing.
However regarding this discussion about bloated batteries it doesn´t matter the battery has a protection circuit or not. The protection circuit only disconnects the battery if a short circuit occurs or the battery voltage drops below 3V.
Buy a new battery.
Sent from my GT-I8150 using xda app-developers app
iDelta said:
Your battery is bloated. Congratulations. To fix this, there is only one solution. Change your battery.
Sent from my 4.1 running Galaxy W.
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That is the best answer for your problem, maybe to alot of overcharge :angel:

[Q] What charger to use. Make your battery last longer.

Hello,
As the battery can not be removed I am investigating the ways to make it live the long as I can. One is making your daily use long a lot, dissabling wifi, 3g or things you dont use.
The other way, the like I want to discuss here, is how to make proper charges. Actually, LG support two types:
- USB, at 500mA
- Wall charger (the one from LG), at 1200mA as it says.
I have investigated and read the less mA, the better for your battery, altought it takes longer to arrive to 100% charge.
So, the first question that comes to my mind is: when I like to use a wall charger, shouldn't it be better to use another wall charger with less mA? I own a Samsung charges that says 700mA so maybe it could be better to use it.
Do you think is a good idea?
What the best way to charge battery in order to give it a long live? Is it better to always charge it with pc-usb?
Thanks.
Fer
Use the original charger the phone came with.using other chargers,with different specs,may damage the battery on long terms.
Using a charger with lower intensity(700mAh) will charge the battery slower and for a while it will look like the battery will last longer,but in time it will affect the battery.
Using a higher intensity charger(1500 mAh for example),will charge the battery faster,but in time it will also affect the battery.
Best way is to make complete cycles of discharging/charging,avoid using the phone while is charging.
This is for the battery health.
To increase daily battery life,deactivate auto sync,set weather sync to min 1h,turn off fps/data/wi-fi when you don't need them.
The battery on the phone is guaranteed for about 850 cycles.so,even if you charge the phone every day,you have more than 2 years warranty for the battery to work on parameters.
Then,why worry that much?
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
The battery on the phone is guaranteed for about 850 cycles.so,even if you charge the phone every day,you have more than 2 years warranty for the battery to work on parameters.
Then,why worry that much?
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Because I want my device last more than two years. My last phones last near four years each one. it will be a pitty if I had to forget a good phone only because battery is age-worn.
Given that you propose only charginr with original charger (with make sense to me), what about USB-PC port charge? it is better to use one or the other? both methods are supported by LG and mentioned in the manual, and supposed one of them would be desirable.
Nope,it's better to avoid charges fom usb.in fact,if you have files to copy to/from pc,after you finish i recommend to plug it out.
And those 850 cycles i mentioned are not the end of the battery.it means the battery will keep it"s properties.in time,it's normal for any electric/electronic component to show signs of fatigue.anyway,2+ years for a battery it's great.technology is evolving.you didn't mention,your last phone you had for 4 years,with same battery?and it was in the same parameters?well,it's hard to believe.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
Nope,it's better to avoid charges fom usb.in fact,if you have files to copy to/from pc,after you finish i recommend to plug it out.
And those 850 cycles i mentioned are not the end of the battery.it means the battery will keep it"s properties.in time,it's normal for any electric/electronic component to show signs of fatigue.anyway,2+ years for a battery it's great.technology is evolving.you didn't mention,your last phone you had for 4 years,with same battery?and it was in the same parameters?well,it's hard to believe.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
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what is the "scientific" or "logical" reason to prefer the wall charger to usb-pc? I read it before it is better to charge into usb because 500mA are better for battery, less heat altought it takes longer to arrive to 100%.
My SGS last near 4 years, and I mainly I charged it from usb 50% and official charger 50%, and with Llama (and manually) I was very stricted in what features I turn on and off. In fact the battery and the phone is still in use for other person and the battery "looks" like the first use.
Well,it's not empirical,it's science.maybe i don't know how to put it in english that good,but i'll try.
As we all know,the electricity is measured within some parameters : tension(volts),in intensity(amps) and frequency(herz).
In your case,the wall charger provides 5 volts at the intensity of 1200 miliamps per hour.this is the standard value,made by lg for the g battery.if you provide less than half of that specified intensity(500mAh),the battery will charge alot slower,and it will "struggle" to align the electrons onto the battery layers.you shouldn't have a difference higher than 20%.for a period,it will look like the battery will last longer,but in the same time it will lose it's properties faster than the normal charging.
Today,batteries are not simple electric storages,but smart components themselves.if you mess up their function parameters,you will notice it in time.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
Well,it's not empirical,it's science.maybe i don't know how to put it in english that good,but i'll try.
As we all know,the electricity is measured within some parameters : tension(volts),in intensity(amps) and frequency(herz).
In your case,the wall charger provides 5 volts at the intensity of 1200 miliamps per hour.this is the standard value,made by lg for the g battery.if you provide less than half of that specified intensity(500mAh),the battery will charge alot slower,and it will "struggle" to align the electrons onto the battery layers.you shouldn't have a difference higher than 20%.for a period,it will look like the battery will last longer,but in the same time it will lose it's properties faster than the normal charging.
Today,batteries are not simple electric storages,but smart components themselves.if you mess up their function parameters,you will notice it in time.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
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Kimitza, thank you very much for your support. One more question?. What specifications do you recomend for a car charger? (having in mind I don't use the smarthphone in the car, excep for GPS-maps sometimes. Most time I only charged it)
I have seen in the shop there a vary range of car charges that goes from 750mA to 2100mA.
And other one: is it advisable to use the device while charging?
I have an energizer car charger,rated at 1000mAh.
So,anything between 850-1300mAh should be ok.
My advice is not to charge the phone while using it in car,especially as gps,unless you have to.why?let's see,using the gps will cause the phone to heat more than usual.another heating reason,i'm sure you have a car mount sticked to the front glass of the car,exposed to direct sun.add to these 2 reasons the heat created by the charging itself and you will have yourself a veeeery hot optimus g.oh,forgot about the case.if you have one,especially silicon case,you'll end up with a frying pan.
If you can eliminate some of those heating sources,it would be great.
I found a car mount fitting on an AC blow hole.it's handy in the summer time.for winter,i stick my normal mount on front glass.
On long trips i try to avoid using it as gps when i'm on the highway.i use only in cities.
I remove the silicon case to provide extra air.
And,if i use as gps,i don't charge it.i plan my trip in such way i charge the phone while i'm on highway(if needed of course).i never spent that much time in car wondering in major cities to empty my phone.
Only if i really must i charge the phone while using it.
Feel free to follow or not my guide.
But i think it makes sense.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
I like your advices. I was also asking if you use the phone while in wall-charging??
thanks
Sometimes i do,but,like i said, i try to avoid it. Depending on the activity.
Sometimes i find myself searching for the plug when i'm caught in a game and i want to continue )..
But this phone gave the beste ratio gaming/battery i saw . One day i played 4.5 hrs of Real Racing 3,before charging the phone.So,it's great.
I was so into that game i didn't wanted to end,so yea, i played while charging.Just don't make a habbit out of it .
And sometimes you can't use the phone without charging it....for example,when i play a movie on my 32" tv. The mhl adapter will not work without the phone pluged.
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
cickvoa said:
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
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but the question was not what current is needed, but what is the ideal current (charging velocity) in order to make battery life last longer. what is your opinion ?
cickvoa said:
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
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Well,another specialist.I never mentioned the Voltage,which is the same for almost all mobile devices.I was talking about intensity,this makes the difference. And since you mentioned it, it's not just an adapter,it's more,because this piese of electronic equipment CONVERTS one kind of electricity(alternative current),with some specs(110-220V), to another kind of electricity(dirrect current),with other specs(5V). All this, guess what,to provide enough DC to CHARGE the battery.the standard in mobile industry has been set to 5V on wall chargers and 3.7 V output batteries.
These are the most common and used. The difference is made by the capacity of the batteries and the capability of chargers to supply an amount of electric intensity in a period of time. Again, the standard has been set to mAh,which is milliamps per hour. So,to be exact, a charger rated 5v - 1200mAh will provide a 5V current,at 1200 milliamps per hour.
On the other hand,the battery specs say : 3.7 V, 2100 mAh. This means the battery can provide an output current of 3.7V, at the max intensity of 2100mAh. Didn't measured the G max consumption, but i can tell you for sure, the maximum intensity used by my previous Galaxy note was 800 mAh,on some heavy gaming. And this measurement was made in a lab,with proper tools.You can do an estimative measurement home quite easy,but not that accurate,just to have an idea. How?Well, charge the battery to full, then start an app, a game. play that game until the battery is empty,then make a simple math(battery capacity / time) .It's not the most accurate result,but....
You said the charging unit will take the needed current,right?Who said something else?I said there are differences in charging times,caused by the ELECTRIC INTENSITY.If you say it doesn't matter,because it's all 5V tension,then i guess i could extrapolate and say Amazon river and a mountain spring it's the same for you,because they both are flowing waters,right?It doesn't matter all other parameters,just the flow.
I could go more into details and i'm not a specialist.I just like to know how things are working,just to satisfy my curiosity. I have alot of electronic tools/gadgets, i have my own semi-proffesional soldering station,professional digital multimeter and more. I could say new generation batteries have their own processing unit,making them smart batteries(that's why you can't just exchange batteries from one phone to another,although they have same specs).I could also say Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries are charged by impulses and not real DC.But these are details,and no one here cares about them.They just want to know the basics on how to get a better battery life and how to proper use them.
And since we don't know the basics of electro-technics,could you share your vaste knowledge,but without copy-pasting it from wiki?
Addapter is voltage source. Charging unit is inside mobile phone and it takes amout of current what it needs, ofc has max current limit. When u have voltage source, only way to control current is by resistance that is connected on it. That is.ohms law, basic of electric. Engineers who designed and made charging unit knows their job. Period
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
only voltage?care to do a small experiment?I could provide you a 5v adapter with 10 amps intensity. will you plug it into your phone?Just for the fun of learning?
Yes i would. Because adapter IS VOLTAGE SOURCE, so voltage is constant, and current depends on resistant attached to adapter.
If you would give me CURRENT SOURCE of 10A than I wouldnt connect it, because there is constant current and variable voltage. Pls do not go further, your post shows that this is not your area of knowledge.
Just as notice, Im master if science in EE, in which these types of adapters which is use for mobile phones is basic of industrial electronic, so......
Edit: your big post shows that you dont understand electrotechnic, when i come home on a computer ill give you detail review of your post and mistakes
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
cickvoa said:
Yes i would. Because adapter IS VOLTAGE SOURCE, so voltage is constant, and current depends on resistant attached to adapter.
If you would give me CURRENT SOURCE of 10A than I wouldnt connect it, because there is constant current and variable voltage. Pls do not go further, your post shows that this is not your area of knowledge.
Just as notice, Im master if science in electric motor drives and automation, in which these types of adapters which is use for mobile phones is basic of industrial electronic, so......
Edit: your big post shows that you dont understand electrotechnic, when i come home on a computer ill give you detail review of your post and mistakes
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
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Please, also post your opinion about what is the best specifications for "wherever you call it the charger" for prolong battery life. The max A I suppost mark a limit for the phone, if current max is below the ideal charging value the that charger would be worse. Or any charger is OK?
I will im drinking now lol hehe, no prob, just spoke with friend, he has MD in electronics
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
kimitza said:
Well,another specialist.I never mentioned the Voltage,which is the same for almost all mobile devices.I was talking about intensity,this makes the difference. And since you mentioned it, it's not just an adapter,it's more,because this piese of electronic equipment CONVERTS one kind of electricity(alternative current),with some specs(110-220V), to another kind of electricity(dirrect current),with other specs(5V).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, why are you mentioning intensity?
Second, “direct current with 5 V specs“. Man, you got totally wrong there.
kimitza said:
All this, guess what,to provide enough DC to CHARGE the battery.the standard in mobile industry has been set to 5V on wall chargers and 3.7 V output batteries.
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Click to collapse
„provide enough direct CURRENT … to set to 5 V“. you are doing it again sir, VOLTAGE is measured in VOLTS, CURRENT is measured in AMPERS !!!!!
Second, you must have larger potential form charger to battery, because current wouldn’t flow. Since max battery has 4,2V, it is set to 5V (don’t know why 5, but it is bigger than 4,2)
third, 3,7V is not standard, it is potential difference on Lithiom batteries, as it is 1,5V on CoZn batteries (usual called "Alkaline" or 1,2V on Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries
kimitza said:
These are the most common and used. The difference is made by the capacity of the batteries and the capability of chargers to supply an amount of electric intensity in a period of time. Again, the standard has been set to mAh,which is milliamps per hour. So,to be exact, a charger rated 5v - 1200mAh will provide a 5V current,at 1200 milliamps per hour.
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Standard with mAh is wrong, Wh (watthour) is more correct, but OK, lets go with mAh.
Second, since we are talking about mAh's, mAh is measuring unit for capacity. If you find me charger that can store 1200mAh of capacity good for you (it is called battery, to be precise)
kimitza said:
On the other hand,the battery specs say : 3.7 V, 2100 mAh.
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Again, Li-ion cell at full charge is around 4,2 V and „empty“ is around 3,4 V.
kimitza said:
This means the battery can provide an output current of 3.7V, at the max intensity of 2100mAh.
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Again, totally noob. Sir, V O L T S are for V O L T A G E, A M P E R S are for C U R R E N T, M I L I A M P E R H O U R S are for C A P A C I T Y !!!!!!! If you tell sentence like that to some specialist, he/she would start to LOL to you. If you tell that on some exam, believe me, you wouldn’t pass this year.
kimitza said:
Didn't measured the G max consumption, but i can tell you for sure, the maximum intensity used by my previous Galaxy note was 800 mAh,on some heavy gaming. And this measurement was made in a lab,with proper tools.You can do an estimative measurement home quite easy,but not that accurate,just to have an idea. How?Well, charge the battery to full, then start an app, a game. play that game until the battery is empty,then make a simple math(battery capacity / time) .It's not the most accurate result,but....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bad sentence… only thing you can measure from battery is voltage and currently current. Other, such as mAh, you can calculate. For ex. If you say that during 1 h of measuring average current was 800mA, than you can say, OK my battery gave me 800mAh. Period. If you want to be more precise, or say it in correct measuring units, that you go like this: “my battery gave me 800mA in 1 h. OK, I have 800mAh. BUT, my battery is rated to 3,7 V (average voltage), than you say OK, capacity of this battery is 800mAh*3,7V=2,96mAhV. Since electric power in DC systems is calculated as P=U*I (in watts), so W=V*A, you say that battery has 2,96Wh of capacity.”
Then you look at battery (my O4X) and look, it is written “2150 mAh/8,2Wh”. LG made this good
kimitza said:
You said the charging unit will take the needed current,right?Who said something else?I said there are differences in charging times,caused by the ELECTRIC INTENSITY.If you say it doesn't matter,because it's all 5V tension,then i guess i could extrapolate and say Amazon river and a mountain spring it's the same for you,because they both are flowing waters,right?It doesn't matter all other parameters,just the flow.
Click to expand...
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Again, volts and stuff, you do not have idea what are you talking about
kimitza said:
I could go more into details and i'm not a specialist.
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Yes, I could tell that by reading first few words of your post mister
kimitza said:
I just like to know how things are working,just to satisfy my curiosity. I have alot of electronic tools/gadgets, i have my own semi-proffesional soldering station,professional digital multimeter and more. I could say new generation batteries have their own processing unit,making them smart batteries(that's why you can't just exchange batteries from one phone to another,although they have same specs).I could also say Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries are charged by impulses and not real DC.But these are details,and no one here cares about them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct Liions are charged in impulses. BUT adapter does not provide impulses on its output, it provides 5V (as it is voltage source) and current [0, RATED] A. (those [] means that 0 and rated are included, in case you do not know math too, and that is called interval)
For impules, there is charging unit inside phone.
kimitza said:
They just want to know the basics on how to get a better battery life and how to proper use them.
And since we don't know the basics of electro-technics,could you share your vaste knowledge,but without copy-pasting it from wiki?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wiki...well, you could read it a little, on en.wiki infos are correct, ive checked.
you have some bad attitude. but i understand, attack is the best defence. Enjoy your studying a little and do not embarrass yourself anymore. It is not problem if you do not know, okay, but if you are forcing me, and have no idea abaut basics (such as measuring units), cmon mister. do your homework.
Okay, this is review of your post. I am little hangovered, so if I sound a little uninterested or rough, forgive me
now, lets talk little about basics. Im not in the mood to write equasions and upload some schemes, so ill just put it on paper by hand and upload.
View attachment sl002.rar
cickvoa said:
First of all, why are you mentioning intensity?
Second, “direct current with 5 V specs“. Man, you got totally wrong there.
„provide enough direct CURRENT … to set to 5 V“. you are doing it again sir, VOLTAGE is measured in VOLTS, CURRENT is measured in AMPERS !!!!!
Second, you must have larger potential form charger to battery, because current wouldn’t flow. Since max battery has 4,2V, it is set to 5V (don’t know why 5, but it is bigger than 4,2)
third, 3,7V is not standard, it is potential difference on Lithiom batteries, as it is 1,5V on CoZn batteries (usual called "Alkaline" or 1,2V on Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries
Standard with mAh is wrong, Wh (watthour) is more correct, but OK, lets go with mAh.
Second, since we are talking about mAh's, mAh is measuring unit for capacity. If you find me charger that can store 1200mAh of capacity good for you (it is called battery, to be precise)
Again, Li-ion cell at full charge is around 4,2 V and „empty“ is around 3,4 V.
Again, totally noob. Sir, V O L T S are for V O L T A G E, A M P E R S are for C U R R E N T, M I L I A M P E R H O U R S are for C A P A C I T Y !!!!!!! If you tell sentence like that to some specialist, he/she would start to LOL to you. If you tell that on some exam, believe me, you wouldn’t pass this year.
Bad sentence… only thing you can measure from battery is voltage and currently current. Other, such as mAh, you can calculate. For ex. If you say that during 1 h of measuring average current was 800mA, than you can say, OK my battery gave me 800mAh. Period. If you want to be more precise, or say it in correct measuring units, that you go like this: “my battery gave me 800mA in 1 h. OK, I have 800mAh. BUT, my battery is rated to 3,7 V (average voltage), than you say OK, capacity of this battery is 800mAh*3,7V=2,96mAhV. Since electric power in DC systems is calculated as P=U*I (in watts), so W=V*A, you say that battery has 2,96Wh of capacity.”
Then you look at battery (my O4X) and look, it is written “2150 mAh/8,2Wh”. LG made this good
Again, volts and stuff, you do not have idea what are you talking about
Yes, I could tell that by reading first few words of your post mister
Correct Liions are charged in impulses. BUT adapter does not provide impulses on its output, it provides 5V (as it is voltage source) and current [0, RATED] A. (those [] means that 0 and rated are included, in case you do not know math too, and that is called interval)
For impules, there is charging unit inside phone.
Wiki...well, you could read it a little, on en.wiki infos are correct, ive checked.
you have some bad attitude. but i understand, attack is the best defence. Enjoy your studying a little and do not embarrass yourself anymore. It is not problem if you do not know, okay, but if you are forcing me, and have no idea abaut basics (such as measuring units), cmon mister. do your homework.
Okay, this is review of your post. I am little hangovered, so if I sound a little uninterested or rough, forgive me
now, lets talk little about basics. Im not in the mood to write equasions and upload some schemes, so ill just put it on paper by hand and upload.
View attachment 2044470
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Click to collapse
cickvoa, thank you very much for your contribution, opinion and paper. Very valuable.

Battery tech - Is it really Li-Po?

Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
rodnii said:
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
ZiprLips said:
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
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Click to collapse
True. It's just my own curiosity. This can be closed if no one else is interested.
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Aeltar said:
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
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Click to collapse
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience in the field of overclocking desktop cpu's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu iirc , and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
Oh, and your comments on voltages for lithium ion batteries leads me to think you may have them confused with lithium ferrite (Li-Fe) batteries.
ZiprLips said:
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience e in the field of overclocking desktop club's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu out, and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
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Pardon me, but I'd like to correct a few details that you've overlooked.
1) I never said that one chemistry offers greater mAh, only that one offers a more stable voltage over its discharge cycle. This can be easily confirmed with a battery analyzer.
2) The li-ion pack they're using is clearly marked as 3.85v nominal. Most cells are 3.7v nominal, some are 3.6v, and some are 3.85v.
3) The voltage over discharge time is not linear; most cells operate at their nominal voltage for the largest portion of their discharge cycle, but 3.7v hardly equals 50% for most cells under most conditions.
4) Cells will not recharge in 'opposite polarity' if brought below 3.0v; the safety cutoff is actually 2.8v for most chemistries, and the safety issues with bringing them below that point is that the anode will begin to dissolve, which can cause an internal hard short if severe enough.
5) While li-po and li-ion typically offer the same nominal, maximal, and minimal voltages, the actual voltage over the discharge cycle is different between individual chemistries and constructions. Even identical chemistry (not just li-ion but IMR, also known as LiMn2O4) can differ in performance due to the material and architectural differences in the anode and cathode.
6) While the C rating is certainly relevant, I had assumed that Samsung would choose a cell that is of sufficiently high C rating to charge and discharge at and beyond typical amperage used in these phones.
7) You seem confused on the definition of Ah. Ah means amp-hours; one amp for one hour is one amp-hour. Similarly, joules are watt-seconds; one watt for one second is one joule, 60 watts for 1 second is 60 joules, and 1 watt for 60 seconds is 60 joules. However, energy is not transmitted at a rate of Ah, it is transmitted at a rate of A, or amps.
8) Desktop CPUs have little bearing on mobile CPUs. The technology used to power and construct them is entirely different. While it is extremely likely that mobile components are very low voltage, I don't have concrete knowledge regarding them, and I have no idea of the efficiency or regulation mechanism involved. I conjecture that they are very low-voltage, but while LP does indeed mean low power, power means wattage in the context of electrical engineering. You cannot extrapolate low-voltage from low-wattage due to Watt's law, which describes that you can create equivalent wattage using high voltage and low amperage or low voltage and high amperage (relatively speaking, of course, for both).
9) While mAh is mAh, the mAh given is at a specified load, typically 1C or 0.5C, and not at all indicative of performance at a higher load. There is almost no real-world use case in which you will actually be able to use the complete rated mAh of a cell, and the disparity is due to the voltage of the cell at differing loads at different points in the discharge cycle. It's trivially easy to get 1500mAh or less from a 3500mAh 18650, simply by drawing sufficient amperage. Li-Po typically offers a higher C rating for its size, compared to Li-ion which typically offers a higher capacity for its size. Because of this and the unknowns involved in power regulation inside the device, it's difficult to say whether the 3500mAh 3.85v li-ion cell used will be more or less efficient than a similarly sized and rated li-po cell, unless you happen to work with Samsung directly.
While I continue to disagree with most of your statements, I need to go to sleep, got to work tomorrow unfortunately.
I will only say that I concur with your definition of amp hours, I merely used a different cell capacity in my example. I should ha e some time at work tomorrow to continue the discussion.
There are different marketing names.
This kind of LiPo is often called a Li-HV in the hobby world.
HV for high voltage.
Instead of usual 3.7v nominal and 4.2v full, these chemistries run at 3.85v nominal and 4.35-4.4v full
Overall it should be a fairly quality cell, even if it IS made in China.... Personally I wish they sourced em from Panasonic / Sony / Sanyo etc or built em in Korea or Japan but it probably doesn't matter.
Wow, a very insightful read. Makes me want to go back and study for another degree haha..
Anyway, here is a picture of the battery from the Note7 iFixit teardown. It definitely says Li-Ion and lists nominal voltage @ 3.85V and charge voltage at 4.4V.
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/pHmgEwFNoQTnKyOY.huge
Honestly, I'm just curious, or even annoyed, because of discrepancies between what I see and what is being advertised/reported regarding tech specs. And being human, I want to get the best of what is offered, even if it's marginal. I know I shouldn't think too much about it and move on, but after seeing that photo, I can't help but wonder if there really are models out there with Li-Po or not.
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Mitha88 said:
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
rodnii said:
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure the "USB 2.0" was a typo I've seen many places list the "F" model with USB 3.1
i.e http://www.phonemore.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-note-7-sm-n930f/2708
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For RC usage (extremely high discharge) li-po is strictly superior, because it offers higher drain in a smaller package.
Our phones hardly use any power at all. Can you imagine any sort of RC device with a 1S 3.5Ah cell lasting all day?
Li-ion offers higher energy density for lower discharge applications, up to about 5-8C or so. Above that, li-po shines in terms of size compared to capacity and discharge rate.
As said previously I don't think the use of li-ion is really a letdown. It has drawbacks and benefits. I'd personally prefer li-po, but li-ion makes sense for this application as well.
I suspect the largest benefit the consumer would see from li-po in these uses, if similarly specced, would be greater overall durability (more charge cycles). Let's just hope they went with a high quality li-ion so it'll still be adequate a couple years down the road.
The fact that li-po swells slightly during normal usage is important, too. The teardowns I've seen show very packed internals; a slight amount of swelling, say, when fast charging a year down the road, could equal disaster for other components or the physical casing, or even perhaps the waterproofing.

			
				
Trueeeeee
bro all your researches is right and i have been working trying to find out the truth and actually you were scammed for years in every smartphone and iphone li ion batteries is a miss it cannot handle alot of voltage and almost gets 300 or 500 battery cycles and dies when it became 50 or 30 % i used two old smartphones in my house that is xiaomi note 4 li po and samsung s3 li ion those were my grandfather's and i asked him to help me in this research he used to work as a chemist in science university btw .. we left the both phones to charge with 5w charger for 3 nights and the li po phone didnot get hot and the other li ion phone was pregnant lol the back of it actually the battery were blown up i took it with a glove and got rid of it .. so that actually made me satisfied li po battery is safer to use and keeps its temp while li ion is much cheaper (i am not sure of the price) and we should maintain its temp between 25 - 55 c cause it gets damage by temp and have really bad life time i am not a scientist or hardware or software designer or any kind of these things i just noticed that .. and btw i tried this method with alot of smartphones that has li ion and li po batteries but i changed the chargers and tried higher voltage but not higher that what it does support like my note 8 only 15w charger and that surprised me li ion phones didnot survive they catch heat pretty fast they didnot blow up or anything but the battery life of them were decreased like **** but li po didnot get affected by any mean so i just have to change them that happened to my iphone 7 and samsung note 8 as well so dont try this test you well have to replace them in the store but fck money when i got to understand that companies like samsung and others were fooling us i know they have the best software and antennas and alot more good futures but what will i do with a phone that cannot charge quick like we see in others brands 40w chargers and 30w and having a bad battery life as well

Anyone replaced battery yet

If so how did it go?
sutty86 said:
If so how did it go?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haven't done that (yet), but it was good to see that here in Singapore there is a Huawei service center that offers original battery replacement for a reasonable price.
we recently did a battery replacement for my gf's Moto G5 Plus, but so far looks like the (non-original) replacement isn't up to par...
sutty86 said:
If so how did it go?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are starred reviews on aliexpress that reflect customer experiences with battery replacement. From what I've read these customers are well content with the renewed battery strength. You might want to take a look.
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
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Click to collapse
depends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's far from accurate. There are phones with 6000 even 18,000 mah capacities. For example the Samsung Galaxy M31 has 6000 mah.
Mah numbers stated on batteries are just that, numbers. There are phones with even lower battery capacities that outlast higher battery capacity phones by several hours including the 20x as yt video showdowns between different phones demonstrate. No doubt, although a higher mah indicates greater battery life generally, relatively speaking, battery life overall depends more on what's determined by the interaction among software, voltage and hardware than what's stated on the battery.
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
jbmc83 said:
depends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your dropped battery capacity isn't surprising but natural during the course of its use. My own battery has a capacity of just shy of 4700, somewhere in the neighborhood of 4630 last time I checked.
As you stated, your battery was at one point at a full 5000 mah and lost 10% of its capacity to what's presently 4500. But just so you know, your battery is not precisely filled to 5000 mah right out the factory. In reality its always less than whats stated; the reason being is that batteries differ in capacity during manufacturing mostly to cut costs. Battery manufacturers round the numbers to the nearest hundredth or thousandth to read batteries easier. Hope this helps.
blackhawk said:
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct. This is why within the battery, cells are damaged which skip proper readings by the amount equal to the amount of juice generated by the lost, damaged cell.
Deanro said:
Correct. This is why within the battery, cells are damaged which skip proper readings by the amount equal to the amount of juice generated by the lost, damaged cell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what a typical Li polymer battery used in cell phones looks like.
There's no hard case to contain it so any internal pressure immediately becomes an issue.
Swelling in the cell it's self will distort the structure of the cell and alter it permanently.
A sealed plastic bag surrounds it to hold any vented gases or goo.
It's just one cell and it's rolled construction is similar to a capacitor.
It's alarmingly flimsy... and packed with energy.
Deanro said:
That's far from accurate. There are phones with 6000 even 18,000 mah capacities. For example the Samsung Galaxy M31 has 6000 mah.
Mah numbers stated on batteries are just that, numbers. There are phones with even lower battery capacities that outlast higher battery capacity phones by several hours including the 20x as yt video showdowns between different phones demonstrate. No doubt, although a higher mah indicates greater battery life generally, relatively speaking, battery life overall depends more on what's determined by the interaction among software, voltage and hardware than what's stated on the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry man you not right
No there is no any smartphone with 6000mAh Batteey you too naive to believe lies and fake statements from china That is complete crap what you saying that lower capacity batt will outperform battery with larger capacity.. Where do you live boy?
I will explain you about the batteries ok?
As I know about batteries. Li-ion batteries has best density
Speaking of cell density batteries there would have to be new design and new technology.
For more battery cells you obviously need larger battery ! THAT'S WHY Mate 20 X / Honor Note 10 battery is the largest from all.
Battery Size
Although higher-capacity batteries generally last longer than lower-capacity ones, they are not always suitable for use in every device. To achieve a higher capacity, battery makers often have to fit more cells into each battery. Cells are the parts of a battery in which the chemical reaction needed to generate electricity happens. Increasing a battery's cell count can in turn increase both the size and weight of the battery, making it unsuitable for use in slimline devices such as smaller cell phones and netbooks. The temperature and speed of electrical current discharge affects the overall capacity of the battery. Poorly made batteries often heat up too quickly resulting in performance issues or degraded capacity.
To calculate a battery's life, divide the capacity of the battery by the current required by the object it powers. For example, imagine that you have two batteries for your cell phone, one with a capacity of 1000 mAh and one with a capacity of 2000 mAh, and that your phone requires a current of 200 mA to function. The first battery would power the phone for five hours, as 1000 divided by 200 equals five. But the second battery would power the phone for ten hours, as it has double the capacity of the first. While a larger number indicates battery power, larger mAh batteries may not be better if it is a poor quality battery. It simply means it can store more power.
Cell phone battery life is heavily dependent on the way in which you use the phone. The more features you run at the same time on your phone, the more current your phone requires and the quicker the battery's capacity drains. This is why using WiFi or running complex games on your phone drains the battery quickly. As such, a battery with a high capacity that is used to power a smartphone might last for less time than a low-capacity battery that powers a basic device.
blackhawk said:
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The battery will most likely get swollen becuse stupid ppl will take their phones into shower where is humid and steam and it will obviously get inside phone remember 20X isn't ip68 and even ip68 phones can suffer if the phone is in humidity environment...
OR
If the phone is in freezing cold place so the frost will pass through no matter how proof device is and then when you take it to warm environment straight away inside phone and battery the freeze will turn into water and short and create battery to swollen becuse of the reaction ...
jbmc83 said:
d
epends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since summer 2019
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
The battery will most likely get swollen becuse stupid ppl will take their phones into shower where is humid and steam and it will obviously get inside phone remember 20X isn't ip68 and even ip68 phones can suffer if the phone is in humidity environment...
OR
If the phone is in freezing cold place so the frost will pass through no matter how proof device is and then when you take it to warm environment straight away inside phone and battery the freeze will turn into water and short and create battery to swollen becuse of the reaction ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right about the waterproofing, don't test it.
It might work...
In my case it wasn't abused and I was lucky it didn't take out my Note 10+'s display.
Heat and/or rapid discharging can cause it.
Or a bad copy from the factory.
Or simply accumulative damage over time and insults. I live in the desert so heat is omnipresent. I try to keep it cool especially when charging.
My phone has never been cold charged or even close to damp. Cold charging (>40°F) can trigger a run away thermal event or cause permanent damage.
Charging in temperatures under 72°F can cause Li plating which permanently degrades the cell.
blackhawk said:
You're right about the waterproofing, don't test it.
It might work...
In my case it wasn't abused and I was lucky it didn't take out my Note 10+'s display.
Heat and/or rapid discharging can cause it.
Or a bad copy from the factory.
Or simply accumulative damage over time and insults. I live in the desert so heat is omnipresent. I try to keep it cool especially when charging.
My phone has never been cold charged or even close to damp. Cold charging (>40°F) can trigger a run away thermal event or cause permanent damage.
Charging in temperatures under 72°F can cause Li plating which permanently degrades the cell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Xiaomi preparing something huge about smartphone battery so I am interested what it is gonna be...
Xiaomi to introduce revolutionary battery for Mi 11 Ultra and all-new in-house chip on March 29
The power cell will be silicon-oxygen, while the chip is likely an ISP for the liquid lens. Xiaomi is going big with its March 29 event. The company will...
www.gsmarena.com
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
Well Xiaomi preparing something huge about smartphone battery so I am interested what it is gonna be...
Xiaomi to introduce revolutionary battery for Mi 11 Ultra and all-new in-house chip on March 29
The power cell will be silicon-oxygen, while the chip is likely an ISP for the liquid lens. Xiaomi is going big with its March 29 event. The company will...
www.gsmarena.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's likely to be surging with something
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
Sorry man you not right
No there is no any smartphone with 6000mAh Batteey you too naive to believe lies and fake statements from china That is complete crap what you saying that lower capacity batt will outperform battery with larger capacity.. Where do you live boy?
I will explain you about the batteries ok?
As I know about batteries. Li-ion batteries has best density
Speaking of cell density batteries there would have to be new design and new technology.
For more battery cells you obviously need larger battery ! THAT'S WHY Mate 20 X / Honor Note 10 battery is the largest from all.
Battery Size
Although higher-capacity batteries generally last longer than lower-capacity ones, they are not always suitable for use in every device. To achieve a higher capacity, battery makers often have to fit more cells into each battery. Cells are the parts of a battery in which the chemical reaction needed to generate electricity happens. Increasing a battery's cell count can in turn increase both the size and weight of the battery, making it unsuitable for use in slimline devices such as smaller cell phones and netbooks. The temperature and speed of electrical current discharge affects the overall capacity of the battery. Poorly made batteries often heat up too quickly resulting in performance issues or degraded capacity.
To calculate a battery's life, divide the capacity of the battery by the current required by the object it powers. For example, imagine that you have two batteries for your cell phone, one with a capacity of 1000 mAh and one with a capacity of 2000 mAh, and that your phone requires a current of 200 mA to function. The first battery would power the phone for five hours, as 1000 divided by 200 equals five. But the second battery would power the phone for ten hours, as it has double the capacity of the first. While a larger number indicates battery power, larger mAh batteries may not be better if it is a poor quality battery. It simply means it can store more power.
Cell phone battery life is heavily dependent on the way in which you use the phone. The more features you run at the same time on your phone, the more current your phone requires and the quicker the battery's capacity drains. This is why using WiFi or running complex games on your phone drains the battery quickly. As such, a battery with a high capacity that is used to power a smartphone might last for less time than a low-capacity battery that powers a basic device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Youre not bright when it comes to the subject of battery and 1000% wrong yet again. The Samsung Galaxy M31 is korean which you mistakingly think is chinese and has a 6000 mah battery which I'm sure youre too afraid to verify in google. The Helio P70 has a 18000 mah battery which of course you deny since you dont operate in our reality.
Longer capacity batteries dont guarantee a longer lasting life than lower capacity ones. Case in point, the iphone xr with 2940 mah equals the note 9 with 4000 mah as this yt video proves:
Youre trying hard to be relevant by trying to edge out people's comments with your nonsense. Being negative and insulting others violate forum rules which doesnt win you friends here. I reported you to the mods btw. Guys like you dont last long here. Be educated before you look foolish again.
.
........
blackhawk said:
This is what a typical Li polymer battery used in cell phones looks like.
There's no hard case to contain it so any internal pressure immediately becomes an issue.
Swelling in the cell it's self will distort the structure of the cell and alter it permanently.
A sealed plastic bag surrounds it to hold any vented gases or goo.
It's just one cell and it's rolled construction is similar to a capacitor.
It's alarmingly flimsy... and packed with energy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very cool. I once actually saw the insides of a battery that exploded which was not a good look. The owner stopped buying that brand as a result. LMAO
Deanro said:
Very cool. I once actually saw the insides of a battery that exploded which was not a good look. The owner stopped buying that brand as a result. LMAO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you see they are somewhat fragile. I inadvertently ripped right into the active layer before I knew it after I removed the outer bag
Crazy. A fruity smelling solvent was also present. I wiped down my hands even though I sensed nothing; caustic burns are the worst.
It's a good idea to have little charge on these when >gently< removing them.
I'm not as comfortable with these packs as I was before, ignorance is bliss... until it starts smoking.

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