Hello,
As the battery can not be removed I am investigating the ways to make it live the long as I can. One is making your daily use long a lot, dissabling wifi, 3g or things you dont use.
The other way, the like I want to discuss here, is how to make proper charges. Actually, LG support two types:
- USB, at 500mA
- Wall charger (the one from LG), at 1200mA as it says.
I have investigated and read the less mA, the better for your battery, altought it takes longer to arrive to 100% charge.
So, the first question that comes to my mind is: when I like to use a wall charger, shouldn't it be better to use another wall charger with less mA? I own a Samsung charges that says 700mA so maybe it could be better to use it.
Do you think is a good idea?
What the best way to charge battery in order to give it a long live? Is it better to always charge it with pc-usb?
Thanks.
Fer
Use the original charger the phone came with.using other chargers,with different specs,may damage the battery on long terms.
Using a charger with lower intensity(700mAh) will charge the battery slower and for a while it will look like the battery will last longer,but in time it will affect the battery.
Using a higher intensity charger(1500 mAh for example),will charge the battery faster,but in time it will also affect the battery.
Best way is to make complete cycles of discharging/charging,avoid using the phone while is charging.
This is for the battery health.
To increase daily battery life,deactivate auto sync,set weather sync to min 1h,turn off fps/data/wi-fi when you don't need them.
The battery on the phone is guaranteed for about 850 cycles.so,even if you charge the phone every day,you have more than 2 years warranty for the battery to work on parameters.
Then,why worry that much?
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
The battery on the phone is guaranteed for about 850 cycles.so,even if you charge the phone every day,you have more than 2 years warranty for the battery to work on parameters.
Then,why worry that much?
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Because I want my device last more than two years. My last phones last near four years each one. it will be a pitty if I had to forget a good phone only because battery is age-worn.
Given that you propose only charginr with original charger (with make sense to me), what about USB-PC port charge? it is better to use one or the other? both methods are supported by LG and mentioned in the manual, and supposed one of them would be desirable.
Nope,it's better to avoid charges fom usb.in fact,if you have files to copy to/from pc,after you finish i recommend to plug it out.
And those 850 cycles i mentioned are not the end of the battery.it means the battery will keep it"s properties.in time,it's normal for any electric/electronic component to show signs of fatigue.anyway,2+ years for a battery it's great.technology is evolving.you didn't mention,your last phone you had for 4 years,with same battery?and it was in the same parameters?well,it's hard to believe.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
Nope,it's better to avoid charges fom usb.in fact,if you have files to copy to/from pc,after you finish i recommend to plug it out.
And those 850 cycles i mentioned are not the end of the battery.it means the battery will keep it"s properties.in time,it's normal for any electric/electronic component to show signs of fatigue.anyway,2+ years for a battery it's great.technology is evolving.you didn't mention,your last phone you had for 4 years,with same battery?and it was in the same parameters?well,it's hard to believe.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
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what is the "scientific" or "logical" reason to prefer the wall charger to usb-pc? I read it before it is better to charge into usb because 500mA are better for battery, less heat altought it takes longer to arrive to 100%.
My SGS last near 4 years, and I mainly I charged it from usb 50% and official charger 50%, and with Llama (and manually) I was very stricted in what features I turn on and off. In fact the battery and the phone is still in use for other person and the battery "looks" like the first use.
Well,it's not empirical,it's science.maybe i don't know how to put it in english that good,but i'll try.
As we all know,the electricity is measured within some parameters : tension(volts),in intensity(amps) and frequency(herz).
In your case,the wall charger provides 5 volts at the intensity of 1200 miliamps per hour.this is the standard value,made by lg for the g battery.if you provide less than half of that specified intensity(500mAh),the battery will charge alot slower,and it will "struggle" to align the electrons onto the battery layers.you shouldn't have a difference higher than 20%.for a period,it will look like the battery will last longer,but in the same time it will lose it's properties faster than the normal charging.
Today,batteries are not simple electric storages,but smart components themselves.if you mess up their function parameters,you will notice it in time.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
Well,it's not empirical,it's science.maybe i don't know how to put it in english that good,but i'll try.
As we all know,the electricity is measured within some parameters : tension(volts),in intensity(amps) and frequency(herz).
In your case,the wall charger provides 5 volts at the intensity of 1200 miliamps per hour.this is the standard value,made by lg for the g battery.if you provide less than half of that specified intensity(500mAh),the battery will charge alot slower,and it will "struggle" to align the electrons onto the battery layers.you shouldn't have a difference higher than 20%.for a period,it will look like the battery will last longer,but in the same time it will lose it's properties faster than the normal charging.
Today,batteries are not simple electric storages,but smart components themselves.if you mess up their function parameters,you will notice it in time.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
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Kimitza, thank you very much for your support. One more question?. What specifications do you recomend for a car charger? (having in mind I don't use the smarthphone in the car, excep for GPS-maps sometimes. Most time I only charged it)
I have seen in the shop there a vary range of car charges that goes from 750mA to 2100mA.
And other one: is it advisable to use the device while charging?
I have an energizer car charger,rated at 1000mAh.
So,anything between 850-1300mAh should be ok.
My advice is not to charge the phone while using it in car,especially as gps,unless you have to.why?let's see,using the gps will cause the phone to heat more than usual.another heating reason,i'm sure you have a car mount sticked to the front glass of the car,exposed to direct sun.add to these 2 reasons the heat created by the charging itself and you will have yourself a veeeery hot optimus g.oh,forgot about the case.if you have one,especially silicon case,you'll end up with a frying pan.
If you can eliminate some of those heating sources,it would be great.
I found a car mount fitting on an AC blow hole.it's handy in the summer time.for winter,i stick my normal mount on front glass.
On long trips i try to avoid using it as gps when i'm on the highway.i use only in cities.
I remove the silicon case to provide extra air.
And,if i use as gps,i don't charge it.i plan my trip in such way i charge the phone while i'm on highway(if needed of course).i never spent that much time in car wondering in major cities to empty my phone.
Only if i really must i charge the phone while using it.
Feel free to follow or not my guide.
But i think it makes sense.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
I like your advices. I was also asking if you use the phone while in wall-charging??
thanks
Sometimes i do,but,like i said, i try to avoid it. Depending on the activity.
Sometimes i find myself searching for the plug when i'm caught in a game and i want to continue )..
But this phone gave the beste ratio gaming/battery i saw . One day i played 4.5 hrs of Real Racing 3,before charging the phone.So,it's great.
I was so into that game i didn't wanted to end,so yea, i played while charging.Just don't make a habbit out of it .
And sometimes you can't use the phone without charging it....for example,when i play a movie on my 32" tv. The mhl adapter will not work without the phone pluged.
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
cickvoa said:
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
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but the question was not what current is needed, but what is the ideal current (charging velocity) in order to make battery life last longer. what is your opinion ?
cickvoa said:
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
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Well,another specialist.I never mentioned the Voltage,which is the same for almost all mobile devices.I was talking about intensity,this makes the difference. And since you mentioned it, it's not just an adapter,it's more,because this piese of electronic equipment CONVERTS one kind of electricity(alternative current),with some specs(110-220V), to another kind of electricity(dirrect current),with other specs(5V). All this, guess what,to provide enough DC to CHARGE the battery.the standard in mobile industry has been set to 5V on wall chargers and 3.7 V output batteries.
These are the most common and used. The difference is made by the capacity of the batteries and the capability of chargers to supply an amount of electric intensity in a period of time. Again, the standard has been set to mAh,which is milliamps per hour. So,to be exact, a charger rated 5v - 1200mAh will provide a 5V current,at 1200 milliamps per hour.
On the other hand,the battery specs say : 3.7 V, 2100 mAh. This means the battery can provide an output current of 3.7V, at the max intensity of 2100mAh. Didn't measured the G max consumption, but i can tell you for sure, the maximum intensity used by my previous Galaxy note was 800 mAh,on some heavy gaming. And this measurement was made in a lab,with proper tools.You can do an estimative measurement home quite easy,but not that accurate,just to have an idea. How?Well, charge the battery to full, then start an app, a game. play that game until the battery is empty,then make a simple math(battery capacity / time) .It's not the most accurate result,but....
You said the charging unit will take the needed current,right?Who said something else?I said there are differences in charging times,caused by the ELECTRIC INTENSITY.If you say it doesn't matter,because it's all 5V tension,then i guess i could extrapolate and say Amazon river and a mountain spring it's the same for you,because they both are flowing waters,right?It doesn't matter all other parameters,just the flow.
I could go more into details and i'm not a specialist.I just like to know how things are working,just to satisfy my curiosity. I have alot of electronic tools/gadgets, i have my own semi-proffesional soldering station,professional digital multimeter and more. I could say new generation batteries have their own processing unit,making them smart batteries(that's why you can't just exchange batteries from one phone to another,although they have same specs).I could also say Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries are charged by impulses and not real DC.But these are details,and no one here cares about them.They just want to know the basics on how to get a better battery life and how to proper use them.
And since we don't know the basics of electro-technics,could you share your vaste knowledge,but without copy-pasting it from wiki?
Addapter is voltage source. Charging unit is inside mobile phone and it takes amout of current what it needs, ofc has max current limit. When u have voltage source, only way to control current is by resistance that is connected on it. That is.ohms law, basic of electric. Engineers who designed and made charging unit knows their job. Period
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
only voltage?care to do a small experiment?I could provide you a 5v adapter with 10 amps intensity. will you plug it into your phone?Just for the fun of learning?
Yes i would. Because adapter IS VOLTAGE SOURCE, so voltage is constant, and current depends on resistant attached to adapter.
If you would give me CURRENT SOURCE of 10A than I wouldnt connect it, because there is constant current and variable voltage. Pls do not go further, your post shows that this is not your area of knowledge.
Just as notice, Im master if science in EE, in which these types of adapters which is use for mobile phones is basic of industrial electronic, so......
Edit: your big post shows that you dont understand electrotechnic, when i come home on a computer ill give you detail review of your post and mistakes
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
cickvoa said:
Yes i would. Because adapter IS VOLTAGE SOURCE, so voltage is constant, and current depends on resistant attached to adapter.
If you would give me CURRENT SOURCE of 10A than I wouldnt connect it, because there is constant current and variable voltage. Pls do not go further, your post shows that this is not your area of knowledge.
Just as notice, Im master if science in electric motor drives and automation, in which these types of adapters which is use for mobile phones is basic of industrial electronic, so......
Edit: your big post shows that you dont understand electrotechnic, when i come home on a computer ill give you detail review of your post and mistakes
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
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Please, also post your opinion about what is the best specifications for "wherever you call it the charger" for prolong battery life. The max A I suppost mark a limit for the phone, if current max is below the ideal charging value the that charger would be worse. Or any charger is OK?
I will im drinking now lol hehe, no prob, just spoke with friend, he has MD in electronics
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
kimitza said:
Well,another specialist.I never mentioned the Voltage,which is the same for almost all mobile devices.I was talking about intensity,this makes the difference. And since you mentioned it, it's not just an adapter,it's more,because this piese of electronic equipment CONVERTS one kind of electricity(alternative current),with some specs(110-220V), to another kind of electricity(dirrect current),with other specs(5V).
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First of all, why are you mentioning intensity?
Second, “direct current with 5 V specs“. Man, you got totally wrong there.
kimitza said:
All this, guess what,to provide enough DC to CHARGE the battery.the standard in mobile industry has been set to 5V on wall chargers and 3.7 V output batteries.
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„provide enough direct CURRENT … to set to 5 V“. you are doing it again sir, VOLTAGE is measured in VOLTS, CURRENT is measured in AMPERS !!!!!
Second, you must have larger potential form charger to battery, because current wouldn’t flow. Since max battery has 4,2V, it is set to 5V (don’t know why 5, but it is bigger than 4,2)
third, 3,7V is not standard, it is potential difference on Lithiom batteries, as it is 1,5V on CoZn batteries (usual called "Alkaline" or 1,2V on Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries
kimitza said:
These are the most common and used. The difference is made by the capacity of the batteries and the capability of chargers to supply an amount of electric intensity in a period of time. Again, the standard has been set to mAh,which is milliamps per hour. So,to be exact, a charger rated 5v - 1200mAh will provide a 5V current,at 1200 milliamps per hour.
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Standard with mAh is wrong, Wh (watthour) is more correct, but OK, lets go with mAh.
Second, since we are talking about mAh's, mAh is measuring unit for capacity. If you find me charger that can store 1200mAh of capacity good for you (it is called battery, to be precise)
kimitza said:
On the other hand,the battery specs say : 3.7 V, 2100 mAh.
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Again, Li-ion cell at full charge is around 4,2 V and „empty“ is around 3,4 V.
kimitza said:
This means the battery can provide an output current of 3.7V, at the max intensity of 2100mAh.
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Again, totally noob. Sir, V O L T S are for V O L T A G E, A M P E R S are for C U R R E N T, M I L I A M P E R H O U R S are for C A P A C I T Y !!!!!!! If you tell sentence like that to some specialist, he/she would start to LOL to you. If you tell that on some exam, believe me, you wouldn’t pass this year.
kimitza said:
Didn't measured the G max consumption, but i can tell you for sure, the maximum intensity used by my previous Galaxy note was 800 mAh,on some heavy gaming. And this measurement was made in a lab,with proper tools.You can do an estimative measurement home quite easy,but not that accurate,just to have an idea. How?Well, charge the battery to full, then start an app, a game. play that game until the battery is empty,then make a simple math(battery capacity / time) .It's not the most accurate result,but....
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Bad sentence… only thing you can measure from battery is voltage and currently current. Other, such as mAh, you can calculate. For ex. If you say that during 1 h of measuring average current was 800mA, than you can say, OK my battery gave me 800mAh. Period. If you want to be more precise, or say it in correct measuring units, that you go like this: “my battery gave me 800mA in 1 h. OK, I have 800mAh. BUT, my battery is rated to 3,7 V (average voltage), than you say OK, capacity of this battery is 800mAh*3,7V=2,96mAhV. Since electric power in DC systems is calculated as P=U*I (in watts), so W=V*A, you say that battery has 2,96Wh of capacity.”
Then you look at battery (my O4X) and look, it is written “2150 mAh/8,2Wh”. LG made this good
kimitza said:
You said the charging unit will take the needed current,right?Who said something else?I said there are differences in charging times,caused by the ELECTRIC INTENSITY.If you say it doesn't matter,because it's all 5V tension,then i guess i could extrapolate and say Amazon river and a mountain spring it's the same for you,because they both are flowing waters,right?It doesn't matter all other parameters,just the flow.
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Again, volts and stuff, you do not have idea what are you talking about
kimitza said:
I could go more into details and i'm not a specialist.
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Yes, I could tell that by reading first few words of your post mister
kimitza said:
I just like to know how things are working,just to satisfy my curiosity. I have alot of electronic tools/gadgets, i have my own semi-proffesional soldering station,professional digital multimeter and more. I could say new generation batteries have their own processing unit,making them smart batteries(that's why you can't just exchange batteries from one phone to another,although they have same specs).I could also say Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries are charged by impulses and not real DC.But these are details,and no one here cares about them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct Liions are charged in impulses. BUT adapter does not provide impulses on its output, it provides 5V (as it is voltage source) and current [0, RATED] A. (those [] means that 0 and rated are included, in case you do not know math too, and that is called interval)
For impules, there is charging unit inside phone.
kimitza said:
They just want to know the basics on how to get a better battery life and how to proper use them.
And since we don't know the basics of electro-technics,could you share your vaste knowledge,but without copy-pasting it from wiki?
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Click to collapse
Wiki...well, you could read it a little, on en.wiki infos are correct, ive checked.
you have some bad attitude. but i understand, attack is the best defence. Enjoy your studying a little and do not embarrass yourself anymore. It is not problem if you do not know, okay, but if you are forcing me, and have no idea abaut basics (such as measuring units), cmon mister. do your homework.
Okay, this is review of your post. I am little hangovered, so if I sound a little uninterested or rough, forgive me
now, lets talk little about basics. Im not in the mood to write equasions and upload some schemes, so ill just put it on paper by hand and upload.
View attachment sl002.rar
cickvoa said:
First of all, why are you mentioning intensity?
Second, “direct current with 5 V specs“. Man, you got totally wrong there.
„provide enough direct CURRENT … to set to 5 V“. you are doing it again sir, VOLTAGE is measured in VOLTS, CURRENT is measured in AMPERS !!!!!
Second, you must have larger potential form charger to battery, because current wouldn’t flow. Since max battery has 4,2V, it is set to 5V (don’t know why 5, but it is bigger than 4,2)
third, 3,7V is not standard, it is potential difference on Lithiom batteries, as it is 1,5V on CoZn batteries (usual called "Alkaline" or 1,2V on Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries
Standard with mAh is wrong, Wh (watthour) is more correct, but OK, lets go with mAh.
Second, since we are talking about mAh's, mAh is measuring unit for capacity. If you find me charger that can store 1200mAh of capacity good for you (it is called battery, to be precise)
Again, Li-ion cell at full charge is around 4,2 V and „empty“ is around 3,4 V.
Again, totally noob. Sir, V O L T S are for V O L T A G E, A M P E R S are for C U R R E N T, M I L I A M P E R H O U R S are for C A P A C I T Y !!!!!!! If you tell sentence like that to some specialist, he/she would start to LOL to you. If you tell that on some exam, believe me, you wouldn’t pass this year.
Bad sentence… only thing you can measure from battery is voltage and currently current. Other, such as mAh, you can calculate. For ex. If you say that during 1 h of measuring average current was 800mA, than you can say, OK my battery gave me 800mAh. Period. If you want to be more precise, or say it in correct measuring units, that you go like this: “my battery gave me 800mA in 1 h. OK, I have 800mAh. BUT, my battery is rated to 3,7 V (average voltage), than you say OK, capacity of this battery is 800mAh*3,7V=2,96mAhV. Since electric power in DC systems is calculated as P=U*I (in watts), so W=V*A, you say that battery has 2,96Wh of capacity.”
Then you look at battery (my O4X) and look, it is written “2150 mAh/8,2Wh”. LG made this good
Again, volts and stuff, you do not have idea what are you talking about
Yes, I could tell that by reading first few words of your post mister
Correct Liions are charged in impulses. BUT adapter does not provide impulses on its output, it provides 5V (as it is voltage source) and current [0, RATED] A. (those [] means that 0 and rated are included, in case you do not know math too, and that is called interval)
For impules, there is charging unit inside phone.
Wiki...well, you could read it a little, on en.wiki infos are correct, ive checked.
you have some bad attitude. but i understand, attack is the best defence. Enjoy your studying a little and do not embarrass yourself anymore. It is not problem if you do not know, okay, but if you are forcing me, and have no idea abaut basics (such as measuring units), cmon mister. do your homework.
Okay, this is review of your post. I am little hangovered, so if I sound a little uninterested or rough, forgive me
now, lets talk little about basics. Im not in the mood to write equasions and upload some schemes, so ill just put it on paper by hand and upload.
View attachment 2044470
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Click to collapse
cickvoa, thank you very much for your contribution, opinion and paper. Very valuable.
Related
Hello everybody,
Since the best phone ever died (or better: drown) on me (HTC Universal OFCOURSE!). I had to look for a replacement and TP2 seemed like the best of bad things. LOL!
I noticed that the wall charger had a 5V -1A(mpere) output. My (standard) car charger has a 5V - 0,5 A output. So I got the notice "your current power supply... not enough ...close some ...."
Besides the fact that e.g. tomtom uses more than the charger can give, i was wondering :
is it BAD for my battery charging at 0,5A instead of 1A ?
how much A does a laptop give when charging my TP2 trough USB port?
HAs this got sth to do with the fact that in some programs there is an option like "do not charge while connected to PC?"
I know this is more of an offtopic question, but I hope there is somebody with enough electrical knowledge to help me out! I posted it also in the general section, but since it is an TP2 issue maybe it is better placed here.
Sorry for possible inconvenience!
THX!
Kjoere
Each USB port churns out 5V at 500mA max (i.e., 0.5A).
Thank you mesquire,
Do you have any idea what the effect is of charging with different AMpere?
E.g. my BT-earphone has 180mA - so better not charge this through laptop I suppose (too much is never a good thing) - but the otherway charging with less A, that I haven' got a clue ...
C.
You can face problems that it starts to charge, but stops after x minutes.
I have replaced my carcharger with the original HTC CC C100 which delivers 1Amp.
Never had any charging problems with that one.
Hi ronh,
replacing is ofcourse an option, but I was mainly wondering what the possible effects could be on the battery. On a Dutch site I found that Lithium-Ion batteries have no memory effect so all ampères below should be "theoretically" be ok.
Greetz,
C.
Curehead said:
Thank you mesquire,
Do you have any idea what the effect is of charging with different AMpere?
E.g. my BT-earphone has 180mA - so better not charge this through laptop I suppose (too much is never a good thing) - but the otherway charging with less A, that I haven' got a clue ...
C.
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You can expect longer charge times through USB port than with the supplied charger.
A USB flash drive draws only about 100mA from the port, so the port should provide just enough power to charge your Bluetooth handsfree (but do make sure the device needs 5V to operate or you could fry it).
Hi mesquire,
thanx again, but I am still in the dark. You seem to make a difference between a USB port (500mA) and a USB flash drive (100mA), but i don't understand this (maybe my english isn't good enough ).
Do i understand you correctly is i say that the device connected also has sth to say in how much power comes out?
I thought the ampere is sth like a 'flow of current' and when more comes out than wanted by the receiver, it euh likes ... flood (too much current) the device (and does damage). Does this make any sense?
Ciao,
Kjoere
Your device will only pull the amount of amps required,
as long as the input voltage is the same you should be fine.
you will be OK to charge the phone at 500ma however this will take longer to charge,
I charge mine using my laptop regularly - that matches your car charger at 500ma,
you may find however, when using gps etc, that you are draining more power than being supplied by the charger and the battery will begin to discharge.
hope this makes sense,
Steve
Curehead said:
Hi ronh,
replacing is ofcourse an option, but I was mainly wondering what the possible effects could be on the battery. On a Dutch site I found that Lithium-Ion batteries have no memory effect so all ampères below should be "theoretically" be ok.
Greetz,
C.
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Click to collapse
they do have a memory, but the software/charger will not let you damage the battery.
anyway, assuming the battery can be charged at 1C (up to 2C is possible with some batteries, but can adversely affect battery life) you can theoretically charge the battery at a maximum of 1.5 amps safely. (assuming 1,500Mah battery)
TP2 doesn't have li-ion, it's a LiPo which doesn't have memory. They do have a limit on how many times they recharge as well as a shelf life, figure on buying a replacement every 1-2 years I'd guess.
fraser said:
TP2 doesn't have li-ion, it's a LiPo which doesn't have memory. They do have a limit on how many times they recharge as well as a shelf life, figure on buying a replacement every 1-2 years I'd guess.
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are you sure ?? i went to the power settings and it says main battery: Li-ion
which i presume stands for lithium ion ?
Lithium Ion doesn't have memory.
Nickel Cadmium and Nickel MetalHydride have meory: i.e. if you charge it when it's at 70%, the next time it gets down to 70% it will think it's empty as it "remembers" that as the charging point.
With Lithium Ion you can charge them at any moment, ergo no charge. Adn they too have a life of about 500 charges.
fraser said:
TP2 doesn't have li-ion, it's a LiPo which doesn't have memory. They do have a limit on how many times they recharge as well as a shelf life, figure on buying a replacement every 1-2 years I'd guess.
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The battery in my TP2 says LI-ION on the back, so perhaps some are LI-Po and some LI-ion? may go some way to explaining why some people are happy with their battery life and some not so.
Tom
Shouldn't really matter truth be told. As long as they have a rating of 1500mah they should last the same amount.
frogfoot said:
The battery in my TP2 says LI-ION on the back
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Are you sure it doesn't say "Li-ion Polymer"? There is a distinction, particularly in cost!
fraser said:
Are you sure it doesn't say "Li-ion Polymer"? There is a distinction, particularly in cost!
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my australian TP2 says Li-ion in big letters, and Li-ion Polymer in the fine print
The difference is in cost, and weight, but the end result in a cell phone or pda is more or less the same due to the low power demands.
My TP2 battery says Li-ion on the actual label itself.
thanx
rosebud said:
Your device will only pull the amount of amps required,
as long as the input voltage is the same you should be fine.
you will be OK to charge the phone at 500ma however this will take longer to charge,
I charge mine using my laptop regularly - that matches your car charger at 500ma,
you may find however, when using gps etc, that you are draining more power than being supplied by the charger and the battery will begin to discharge.
hope this makes sense,
Steve
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Click to collapse
Hi Steve,
Thx man! So now i Know i only have to worry about voltage. So I can charge my earphone in my car (which only wants 180mA) and my phone (1A). You are right that it sometimes (navigation, BT) uses more power than it gets (500mA), I get some message saying that by the way.
Any way thanx a lot !
Cureheaded
Reference Thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=833602
Apparently, according to the above research, although the EVO charging cable is rated at 1 amp, the phone is only charging at 650 ma. This adds an extra 45 minutes or so to full charge times.
This would make sense in the same way that 3 ghz cpu's can easily be pushed to 4 ghz by those who know what they are doing. The 650 ma is just to "idiot" proof the battery and to provide some wiggle room for "defective" batteries to still function safely.
HERE'S MY QUESTION:
Is this a hardware based limitation or software based? Could someone write a kernel or app that would disable this limitation allowing us to charge at full speed? I am NOT a programmer so have no idea if this is feasible but would appreciate input from those who would know.
Thanks in advance.
mitchellvii said:
Reference Thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=833602
Apparently, according to the above research, although the EVO charging cable is rated at 1 amp, the phone is only charging at 650 ma. This adds an extra 45 minutes or so to full charge times.
This would make sense in the same way that 3 ghz cpu's can easily be pushed to 4 ghz by those who know what they are doing. The 650 ma is just to "idiot" proof the battery and to provide some wiggle room for "defective" batteries to still function safely.
HERE'S MY QUESTION:
Is this a hardware based limitation or software based? Could someone write a kernel or app that would disable this limitation allowing us to charge at full speed? I am NOT a programmer so have no idea if this is feasible but would appreciate input from those who would know.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well from my bit of micro-electronics experience, it is usually hardware done for this sort of thing, but until someone really checks all possible routes it is hard to tell.
SUPER EDIT:
All hail pete...
spankmaster said:
I noticed the R/C guy posting later in the thread saying there is no reason not to charge them faster. There is no reason to trust me over him but i can assure you he is wrong. There are at least 2 threads already here about people wanting 1 amp chargers, getting them, and then complaining about how battery their battery life becomes. So take whatever advice you'd like, but id recommend saving the life of your battery over 45 minutes.
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Let's see if I understand this correctly: You've read in a couple of threads that other people have claimed that they've suffered a loss of capacity because they've charged their Evo batteries with a 1A (1000mA) charger, am I right so far? And because you read this you know enough to tell someone who has years of hands-on experience with LiPo batteries and chargers that he's wrong. Did I get that right?
Whatever, dude. I certainly don't need to argue with you, but I'm compelled to point out a couple of things for other people's sake like the simple fact that the HTC wall wart that comes in the box with a new Evo has a 1A output.
And then there's the fact that a 1C charge rate is the de facto standard in the battery industry for LiPo batteries. Rather than make you do the math, a 1C charge rate for a 1500mAh battery is 1.5A and a 1C charge rate for a 3500mAh battery is 3.5A so charging either of 'em with a 1A rate is well below the most recognized charge rate in the industry.
But I must be wrong if you say so. And if I'm wrong then all the scientists and engineers who design LiPo batteries and chargers must be wrong too.
So I'm in some pretty good company, don't you think?
Pete
well, looks like my ass has been handed to me by science lol Sorry if i sounded insulting, you obviously know more than I. Just trying to give my best 2 cents from what ive heard, and i honestly have heard from a relatively large crowd that 1 amp charging does seem to hurt they're batteries. I thought maybe 1 amp or faster would be fine for the larger cells, maybe 2500 or 3500 or up, but maybe just the smaller cells like in most cell phones couldnt handle that fast a charge as well. No reason to argue with the science of it all though. Also, i do know that the wall charger that comes with the phone is 1 amp output, but many chargers say that but dont always output it depending on the device hooked up (the device not pulling that much, obviously not saying it knows whats plugged in). Does the evo actually charge a full 1 amp from it?
Although I appreciate everyone's input I think you are missing the point of my question. It is not "should we charge at 1 amp?", but "why are our 1 amp chargers only charging at 650 ma?".
If EVO's are rated to charge at 1 amp and the charger is 1 amp, why is it charging at much less. This sounds more like a software thing than a hardware thing. Why would EVO publish that its rated to charge at 1 amp when it cannot physically do so?
mitchellvii said:
Although I appreciate everyone's input I think you are missing the point of my question. It is not "should we charge at 1 amp?", but "why are our 1 amp chargers only charging at 650 ma?".
If EVO's are rated to charge at 1 amp and the charger is 1 amp, why is it charging at much less. This sounds more like a software thing than a hardware thing. Why would EVO publish that its rated to charge at 1 amp when it cannot physically do so?
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Well one semi logical explanation is they limited it to keep the heat levels down to keep components such as the processor from overheating while charging, or they just wanted to do it to piss some people off.
mitchellvii said:
Although I appreciate everyone's input I think you are missing the point of my question. It is not "should we charge at 1 amp?", but "why are our 1 amp chargers only charging at 650 ma?".
If EVO's are rated to charge at 1 amp and the charger is 1 amp, why is it charging at much less. This sounds more like a software thing than a hardware thing. Why would EVO publish that its rated to charge at 1 amp when it cannot physically do so?
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Click to collapse
I want to be real clear about something before I throw any more info into the mix: My info is based on a mixture of my experience with LiPo batteries and charging circuits, my own observations during the time I've owned my Evo, and anecdotal evidence I've collected in this and other forums about the Evo. In other words, my info is based on educated guesses rather than hard facts and with that in mind ....
The Evo does seem to regulate the charging current (rate) to the battery to around 650mA. If you use a power supply that is incapable of supplying 650mA (like a USB port on a computer) then the charging rate will be less, but I haven't read any reliable evidence that suggests that a more powerful power supply will increase the charge rate. My own experiments seem to support that conclusion: I've charged my own Evo with my computer, the HTC 1A charger, a USB hub which can supply 2A, and a mobile charger rated at 850mA. The 850mA, 1A, and 2A supplies all take the same amount of time to recharge my Evo and the computer takes a little longer.
I've also read plenty of reports which suggest that the Evo also uses a mAh cap to limit the amount of charge it will accept before it terminates the charge cycle. It's important to understand the difference between charge amount and charge rate for this to make sense: A parallel example is gallons and gallons-per-hour: Gallons is an amount and gallons-per-hour is a rate. In the Evo's case, mAh (milliamp-hours) is the amount and mA (milliamps) is the rate.
Under normal conditions a LiPo charge cycle is terminated when the battery voltage reaches 4.2V per cell, but due to the volatile consequences of overcharging LiPos engineers usually build additional redundant safeguards into consumer electronics to protect consumers from themselves and a charge rate limit and a charge amount limit are often used together to that end.
So I'm not at all surprised to see evidence that both are used in the Evo, although I do think they erred a little too far on the side of caution.
Now if I had to guess (and I do), I'd say the ~650mA charge rate is hard-wired into the charging circuit and I'll be surprised if that can be changed with anything short of a hardware revision. The charge amount limit is another story, though. That is probably coded into the software.
And on that note, I'm done guessing.
Pete
Confuscius say ...
"It is better to guess and be found right, than to pontificate and be found wrong..."
EVO specs show that it should charge at 1 amp. The charger they give you with a new phone is a 1 amp charger and yet, in numerous threads we learn that people are only getting about a 650 ma charging rate.
THE CONSPIRACY THEORY (don't get excited, just tossing out ideas here - just because you are paranoid doesn't mean everyone really isn't out to get you )
There is something going on here that doesn't add up. Could it be that HTC could not get enough high quality batteries in time to ship and yet, all the specs had already been published? So they shipped some units with "non-binned" batteries and set the charge rate at 650ma to make sure they didn't blow up (lowest common denominator)? They also shipped the 1 amp chargers because they had already manufactured those with the idea the average Joe would never know the difference?
Think about it. It makes sense. Why else tell us it will charge at 1 amp with a 1 amp charger then limit it to 650 ma?
Could this be the reason why so many people with "identical" phones get such wildly different battery results? If this is true, HTC would be looking at one hell of a class action lawsuit.
Just noticed this:
mitchellvii said:
Why would EVO publish that its rated to charge at 1 amp when it cannot physically do so?
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I don't believe that HTC or Sprint has published anything about charge rates. The only thing (that I've seen) that even remotely suggests a rate is the fact that the wall charger they include with the Evo has a 1A output.
There are lots of reasons why a device like a LiPo-powered cell phone needs to internally regulate the charging rate and human folly is right at the top of the list. Imagine how many people would charge their phones at higher and higher rates without ever even considering the consequences of doing so if all they had to do was buy more powerful wall warts. Imagine how many people have already tried!
And I should add that the consequences of charging LiPo cells at excessive rates includes big balls of fire. Go to YouTube and do a search for "lipo fire" if you'd like to see for yourself.
The other major consideration is the amount of electrical current that the circuitry and components in the phone can handle. Push too much current through 'em and they become heaters. Push a little more and circuit board traces start popping like fuses if the components don't fail first.
I imagine you're asking yourself why HTC would supply a 1A charger if the phone will only charge at 650mA (note: you folks are so predictable ) and the answer to that is pretty simple too: The phone can use that extra power (overhead) to power the phone while it's charging the battery. Without that overhead you'd never be able to charge the battery at the regulated rate without turning the phone off.
And that isn't guessing.
Pete
But Pete,
To my understanding, the EVO runs off the battery even when it is being charged. Any overhead from a 1 am charger would not power the phone but just not be used at all. The reason the phone charges during heavy use with a more powerful charger is simply that it is charging faster than the battery is draining.
No power goes directly from the charger to the phone. Try plugging your charger in with no battery and see if it works
mitchellvii said:
But Pete,
To my understanding, the EVO runs off the battery even when it is being charged. Any overhead from a 1 am charger would not power the phone but just not be used at all.
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Click to collapse
I saw a lot of evidence of that in Evo forums before I got my phone and I initially hypothesized that it was why some people were experiencing the rapid ~10% battery drop off if they didn't take the phone off the charger as soon as the light changed from amber to green. And that may, in fact, be true for some Evos but I've seen no evidence whatsoever that my phone works that way. I put my phone in the charging cradle at night with no regard to the charge level and I grab it at whatever random time I happen to need it the next day, and my battery is always fully-charged and I've never experienced the quick drop-off.
My phone also seems to take the same amount of time to top off the battery from a known charge level regardless of whether I leave 4G, WiFi, Bluetooth, and GPS on or turn them all off as long as I use the 1A wall wart.
Those two things have given me reason to question my own hypotheses. In fact, they seem to provide ample evidence to prove it wrong.
No power goes directly from the charger to the phone. Try plugging your charger in with no battery and see if it works
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Click to collapse
I've actually thought about trying that, but my job requires that I'm "reachable" at all times and I can't afford to experiment with my phone in ways which might brick it, regardless of how remote the chance is.
And the fact that the phone won't work via external power without a battery in it isn't hard evidence that the external power can only charge the battery. There are many reasons why it might not work including the possibility that the entire power management circuit in the phone requires some exciter voltage from the battery to work. That's actually a pretty common safeguard.
But the truth of the matter is I'm back to guessin' again.
Pete
spankmaster said:
The 1amp charging thing has been discussed many many times. its not a kernel limitation, but sort of a hardware thing. The evo has to be able to tell whether its being charged by a wall charger or a usb charger hooked up to a computer because usb ports CANNOT output a full amp. So on wall chargers and car chargers , even the ones with usb ports, there is a data lines are hooked together sending a signal to the phone that its charging from a more powerful source.
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I think i might have actually answered your question there lol. Ever heard how weird ipod/iphone chargers are? its cause they have resistors on the data lines to signal the phone to charge, and chargers without them will not charge it. Similarly from what ive gathered, if you open up the charger you want to use, say a wall or car charger, you can bridge the two data lines together, and that will signal the Evo to charge at a full amp. you can use Spare Parts to see that it says charging via A/C to validate this. this has been the solution decided on so far and its very easy. hope i helped!
spankmaster said:
this has been the solution decided on so far and its very easy. hope i helped!
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Click to collapse
Where are you getting this information, spankmaster? Who has decided on this solution? I'd genuinely like to know because I'd like to follow the threads myself.
Have you tried this yourself with an Evo or are you hoping one of us will and let you know how it goes?
And FWIW, I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I really am interested in this but I must say that I'm a bit skeptical.
Pete
PGRtoo said:
Where are you getting this information, spankmaster? Who has decided on this solution? I'd genuinely like to know because I'd like to follow the threads myself.
Have you tried this yourself with an Evo or are you hoping one of us will and let you know how it goes?
And FWIW, I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I really am interested in this but I must say that I'm a bit skeptical.
Pete
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heres the thread my friend!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=767961&highlight=car+charger
The OP has some good info as well. And i did this myself about an hour ago to test and it indeed works.
spankmaster said:
heres the thread my friend!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=767961
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Click to collapse
That's a good find, spankmaster, but evidence still points to a a charging rate which is internally limited to around 650mA even when the phone detects an AC charger. Here's why I say that:
The majority of my own testing has been done on a Seidio Desktop Charging Cradle powered by a Seidio Micro-USB High Output Folding Travel Charger which I just now discovered has a 1.25A instead of a 1A output. Spare Parts already indicates (without any modification) Battery status: Charging (AC), Power plug: AC when I put my phone in the dock.
Now if this "Charging (AC)" condition would allow my phone to charge at the full 1.25A of the charger then it should take ~1.2 hours to charge a depleated 1500mAh battery. At just 1A it would take ~1.5 hours however the two times I deliberately did that as a test it took almost 2.5 hours to charge in the above-mentioned dock.
1500mAh divided by 2.5 hours = a 600mA average charging current but the actual current tapers off as the battery nears 4.2V so the maximum charging current over that 2 hour period was probably somewhere in the 640-660mA range.
The bottom line, at least as I see it, is that shorting the D+ and D- pins may cause USB chargers to charge at AC charger rates, but it doesn't seem to help AC chargers exceed the ~650mA maximum which is apparently hard-wired into the Evo.
The math says it.
I believe it.
That settles it.
'Course I'm still open to new ideas and I still have a glimmer of hope that there's a solution banging around in someone's head just waiting for the right "AHA!" moment.
Pete
ah ha, thats wierd. I think ill conduct a similar test of my own with the charger modified as they specified and see what my results hold. in the same thread there are people, or at least one or two guys, claiming to get a 45 minute charge, so their still might be something to it, or people are just being ridiculous lol. ill post back with my results!
spankmaster said:
in the same thread there are people, or at least one or two guys, claiming to get a 45 minute charge, so their still might be something to it, or people are just being ridiculous lol.
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To charge 1500mAh in 45 minutes would take a bare minimum of a 2A charge current. That's dangerously over a 1C charge rate and if they actually can charge at that rate they stand a good chance of making a smoking hole in something. And If they are doing that and getting away with it they're definitely reducing the number of charge-discharge cycles they'll get from their batteries by a huge amount.
Realistically, I don't think it's possible to force an Evo to charge at rates like that so they're either spreading fertilizer or the batteries were more than half-charged when they started.
Pete
ya, i thought the same thing about 45 minutes. i brought my battery (stock) down to 15% and plugged it into my modified charger and am gonna stay up to see how it does. Its a 99.9% chance its gonna charge exactly like you said. But i was just thinking about the thing about the ipod charging as well, cause the ipod will only charge with the resistors in the lines, but different resistances will tell it to charge at different rates, so im just checking for the .1% chance that bridging the two data lines might signal the phone ever so slightly different then the pre made chargers your using. like I said, one and a million, buts its always worth exploring, if not even just to prove your brilliance
1 HOUR RESULTS: at a solid hour it looks like a got to 65% indicating a 50% charge. so the the moment im at a 750mah average charge rate. but as you stated before, as the battery comes closer to a full charge, it tapers so it looks like it'll probably average out. ill update again for the Hour and a half point.
1.5 HOUR RESULTS: solid 80% after 1.5 hours (again, starting with 15% charge so a total of 65% charge during testing time). Thats 975 mA in 1.5 hours which puts us right on the money at 650mAh charging rate! (SHOCK AND AWW! Lol)
Conclusion, bridging the data lines didnt do diddly SQUAT! i mean, i didnt test the rate before hand, but it certainly isnt giving anyone any 1 amp charging.
And brain blast, wouldnt it be just as effective a method to test charger output by cutting open the cable and hooking a multimeter in the circuit? Actually, imma try that right now!
Hokay, so hooking up the multimeter in line made things really screwy, evo stopped charging and the current on the meter was going way up and down. Either im even MORE retarded than i though and forgot how to use my multimeter or this charger is dangerous and i dont wanna use it anymore cause that shouldn't happen like that lol.
So, back to the OP's question.....
no clue mi amigo! good luck though!
spankmaster said:
Hokay, so hooking up the multimeter in line made things really screwy, evo stopped charging and the current on the meter was going way up and down. Either im even MORE retarded than i though and forgot how to use my multimeter or this charger is dangerous and i dont wanna use it anymore cause that shouldn't happen like that lol.
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Did you place the meter in series (in-line) or in parallel (across) the +5/Gnd cables? For measuring current, it needs to be in series and you can fry circuits by placing it in parallel as it will present near-0 resistance, shorting all the voltage through the meter and straight back to the supply.
I recently got a Seido extended battery case and I thought I could fit two regular batteries in order use one battery and have another battery there in the unit as a spare. As I thought about this however, why beat the bush?
Why not think of a way to connect the two batteries with a piece of electrical tape and have a cheap ~$6 3000mah battery. Thoughts?
Well..you could always wire the contacts together, that way the contacts on the phone hit both of them at the same time. However, you would have to worry about over powering the phone (too much current to it). So..probably wouldn't be worth it. However, if you have insurance you could always try it...
I actually thought of this before and was about to run to radioshack when I ran into a snag....
I was going to wire them up using a relay so when there was no charge on the original battery it would auto switch to the other. E.g. only one battery connected at a time.
Problems:
1. Phone would shutdown when the relay switched, not too big of an issue as you would just turn phone back on.
2. I think phone would shut off before relay would switch, due to Android turning phone off before battery is truely dead
3. Charging would be an issue due to relay
4. All the relays I found were pretty big
As far as wiring two batties at once to increase capacity. There's only 2 ways to do it:
1. Parralell (Wiring + to + and - to - and one battery entirely to load) which will end up with the same voltage as one battery but twice the amps!
2. Series (wiring - from one battery to load, + from other battery to load, then remaining - and + together) which will double the volts but the amps will be the same!
P.S. I'm not a licensed electrician...
Well ur gonna have to do alot of thinking. What ur gonna have to do is hok up 2 battery's to 1 circuit board otherwise you will blow up the battery's and fry your phone. So be careful and solder right. Do a good job and don't mess it up completely.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Kept thinking about it and here is the easiest way to do it...and the reasoning why it will work.
1. If you are to do it you will need 2 identical batteries. Same make, model, and age...preferably new. Otherwise one will degrade.
2. Running in parallel WILL double mAh or discharge rate. I didn't think so at first but it will.
3. Since we can't supply the phone with more volts than it can handle we cannot wire the batteries in series.
4. So we must wire them in parallel, this will double batteries mAh, volts will remain equal to one battery, and double the amps.
5. Doubling the amps should not hurt phone as it will only use what it needs. It is bad to have less amps but not more.***
So, according to my original battery specs if I were to wire two together the end result would be:
3000mAh 3.7V @ 2A
To my knowledge this should work fine.
There is only 2 things that should be verified by an electrician - i.e. not me.
***1. I know more amps is OK, but doubling them I am not sure about. The phone SHOULD only draw at 1A regardless.
2. Charging with the batteries connected together should be OK, this is why I said to make sure their identical. But I would still recommend charging them separately as this is where most damage can be caused to batteries.
You would be fine with them in parallel, amperage is a nonissue as amps are pulled not pushed, charging I'm not sure about I don't know how the charging circuit works in these phones.
Ps I am a licensed electrician
If you ever take one of those cheap Chinese 3500 mah batters apart its just two smaller batteries hooked together and wrapped up.
Well that is all any battery is, a groping of cells. And the cells inside of a single battery are paired to match the exact specs the phone requires.
P.S. I actually have another battery on its way in the mail. I had my warranty send me one so I have a spare. If it is identical to my current one, which it should be, I will test this idea out.
Wouldn't it be easier to order an extended battery with the battery cover from eBay for like $7.50 delivered? Or is this something you wanna do just to see if you can? I don't see why anyone would take the risk of blowing up their phone for this.
rugedraw said:
Wouldn't it be easier to order an extended battery with the battery cover from eBay for like $7.50 delivered? Or is this something you wanna do just to see if you can? I don't see why anyone would take the risk of blowing up their phone for this.
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More or less just to do it, and I have warranty with no down payment so I can get new phone.
rugedraw said:
Wouldn't it be easier to order an extended battery with the battery cover from eBay for like $7.50 delivered? Or is this something you wanna do just to see if you can? I don't see why anyone would take the risk of blowing up their phone for this.
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This ^
Why spend the time and risk damaging your phone?
I can understand the curiosity, as this has crossed my mind before as well, but i figured it simply wasn't worth the time/money/effort
dowmace said:
You would be fine with them in parallel, amperage is a nonissue as amps are pulled not pushed, charging I'm not sure about I don't know how the charging circuit works in these phones.
Ps I am a licensed electrician
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I'm an electrical engineer and this is correct. The circuit (phone) will draw the amperage needed to run regardless of capacity.
This is the same deal if you get a laptop charger. If your laptop takes 12VDC at 5A and you use a 12VDC that is capable of 12A, you won't hurt your laptop, as the laptop will only pull 5A max from the charger. If you use a 14VDC at 5A you will probably fry something on your mainboard.
Similarly, if your phone takes a 5V .5A charger and you use a 5V 1A you don't fry your phone.
Can it be done as..? As their is no physical dimension changes.. Can we assume that bigger battery could be installed in our op3....?
They said no many times over.
They use the same sized battery, but charge it to a higher voltage, thus giving it more capacity.
Daemos said:
They use the same sized battery, but charge it to a higher voltage, thus giving it more capacity.
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note7 the 2nd...? Sounds a bit daft to charge to a higher voltage. If it was this easy wouldn't all manufacturers max out the batteries?
I was wondering the same if its possible from the software side?
G0dofWar said:
I was wondering the same if its possible from the software side?
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bonerp said:
note7 the 2nd...? Sounds a bit daft to charge to a higher voltage. If it was this easy wouldn't all manufacturers max out the batteries?
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No its a total different battery. If we charge it to 4.4 we will ruin the cells. And no it won't explode.
WTF are you talking?! The capacity of the battery has NOTHING to do with the voltage. The voltage only depends on the used (cathode) materials of the battery. The capacity can only be increased by making the battery (cells) bigger or with a higher density like Lithium Polymer batteries. You can't just load a battery to a voltage you want. Every material has it's rated voltage and charge end voltage.
What do you learn at school guys? That's absolutely embarrassing.
But you can reduce the voltage you take out from the battery.
Use fairpark governor, you'll get 10 hrs screen on time out of which 90 percent of the time you won't feel it's slow.
darshakjust4u said:
But you can reduce the voltage you take out from the battery.
Use fairpark governor, you'll get 10 hrs screen on time out of which 90 percent of the time you won't feel it's slow.
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Most certainly you will
Gerrit507 said:
WTF are you talking?! The capacity of the battery has NOTHING to do with the voltage. The voltage only depends on the used (cathode) materials of the battery. The capacity can only be increased by making the battery (cells) bigger or with a higher density like Lithium Polymer batteries. You can't just load a battery to a voltage you want. Every material has it's rated voltage and charge end voltage.
What do you learn at school guys? That's absolutely embarrassing.
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Well, the voltage is in fact raised. Did they change materials? Maybe, we don't know and frankly we don't care.
All we know is that the batteries are physically the same size and that those in OP3 run at 4.35V and those in OP3T run at 4.4V.
Clearly there has to be more differences (density, that you mentioned).
Sent from my OnePlus 3 using Tapatalk
Explorer23 said:
Well, the voltage is in fact raised. Did they change materials? Maybe, we don't know and frankly we don't care.
All we know is that the batteries are physically the same size and that those in OP3 run at 4.35V and those in OP3T run at 4.4V.
Clearly there has to be more differences (density, that you mentioned).
Sent from my OnePlus 3 using Tapatalk
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OnePlus did confirm that the chemical composition is different. I know swapping is recommended, but theoretically, would it be possible ?
Hmm, that's very interesting! I'd be willing to try, if the parts are readily available.
However, I'm pretty sure the connector from the old to the new battery isn't the same. Apple changed this with every iteration, to prevent this exact thing.
Even if you changed the battery. The charging circuit in the op3 would still cut off at the voltage for the standard op3 battery.
Then there is the possibility that the batteries have different charging requirements so you could damage the new battery by charging it incorrectly with the op3 circuit.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Y'all. You're all right. They increased the size of the battery AND the voltage outputted. The phone uses more power than the OnePlus 3, it needed a bigger battery to have the same screen-on-time while having a higher voltage. There's no way you'd ever put this battery in the OnePlus 3 without frying half the phone.
Err, from what I understood when reading all info made public on this, is that they changed neither the size nor the density of the battery. They just made a slight chemical change to make the battery more stable, allowing them to increase the safety voltage threshold from 4.35 to 4.4.
Basically, on 1+3 the battery connector on the phone doesn't allow charging over 100% which is equivalent to the limit of 4.35 safe maximum voltage.
On the 3T, it allows to charge up to on what would be 113% on the 1+3, because it allows charging till it reaches the new maximum safe voltage of 4.4... which just happens to be an extension of 13% in charge.
The absolute top limit capacity of both batteries are the same, but that is highly unsafe overvoltage territory, where the probability of either batteries burning like molten lava would be almost guaranteed (it is how lithium Ion batteries ignite, they don't explode like a grenade, unless you seal them up inside a strong solid structure where internal pressure would skyrocket, which is not the case with phones).
If you changed batteries, most likely it wouldn't make a difference on the 1+3 since the connector there stops charging the battery when it reaches 4.35 volts.
A volt isn't a measure of the amount of power in a battery. Let's use the analogy of a jug of water - volts would be the rate that water comes out of the jug, or more specifically, the water pressure. Amps (milliamps in this case) would be the size of the hole, and mAh would be the amount of water in the jug. Voltage was raised .05 volts - more water coming out would drain the jug faster, so they put more water in the jug to compensate. The system draws more power - they were just compensating. I don't know the actual screen-on-time, but I would expect them to be pretty much the same.
now that's a something bigger battery is limited to software hmm... Thanks Jerry for awesome work..
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Wolf
Just to add this to the discussion. A 0,05V delta is even for micro-electronics a quite small difference. As I own like 20 or even more lithium-ion batteries for modelmaking for example and a really good charger which is precise to 0.01V that same models of batterys can have up to 0.1V voltage difference or sometimes even more. Furthermore the voltage drops from degeneration. I can assure you that battery would work on the OnePlus3. It might not fully charge because the charging electronics think it's the other battery but it would work...
---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------
SynisterWolf said:
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Lets try to keep this civil guys. Do not disrespect each other on this site. If you have something constructive to contribute then by all means post but if all you can do is name call then just dont reply.
Thanks
Wolf
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Thanks
The OP3T battery should work. It just won't fully charge. You need to change the end voltage trigger from 4.35 to 4.4
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Got 2 new batteries and I want to keep them for a while, so I have a few questions:
1. Is the OEM fast-charge charger and cable okay to use every day, or will it degrade the battery faster than a slower/regular speed charger/cable?
2. Since I have 2 batteries now, which is the best way to charge them both up? charge 1 in the phone, then swap and charge the other in the phone? Or buy a battery charger (and if so, which one)?
3. Any other helps regarding the chargers and/or cables?Thank you for your help.
Faster charging will always generate more heat and put more stress on the battery, so slower charging would be better for a battery's lifespan, but I don't think you'll see a huge difference within two years.
By far the fastest way to keep going is having the second battery charged in an external battery charger and then swap when the other battery gets low, followed by charging the low battery in the external charger. Doing it this way also puts the least wear-and-tear on the phone's charging port since you'll rarely use it. I use LG's OEM external battery charging cradle (BCK-5200), but it may be hard to find nowadays. There's currently a used one up for sale in an auction by an American seller on eBay, and there are new ones from a South Korean seller for a higher fixed price. I wouldn't pay more than $25 for one. As for charging time, for me, it takes about 4 hours to charge my MaxxxJuice 4100 mAh batteries from ~5–10% to full. External chargers do not fast-charge, so you'll never put too much stress on the battery that way. Of course, swapping may not be for everyone as it may be inconvenient to take a case off and put it back on.
Unlike the older microUSB cables, bad USB Type-C cables that are not built to certain specifications can draw higher currents and destroy the devices they are charging. A few years ago, a Google engineer reviewed lots of USB-C cables on Amazon to give his view on those. If you need a third-party cable, make sure you get one from a reputable source with good reviews. My preferred USB cable is Anker's Powerline+ due to their extra strength/thickness, and I don't need much flexibility/twistability in my cables. Also, I like how the USB-C end connector is made of one single piece where you don't see any connecting lines around the middle (you can see an example here).
Other thoughts:
As long as there is a supply of extra batteries around and you can afford to buy them when the time comes, then you shouldn't worry much about how you charge your phone. In my opinion, that is one of the main selling points of having a hand-removable battery. I imagine a paranoid person on a phone with a sealed battery would be trying to keep the battery level between 40 and 80% at all times. So really, the only thing to worry about is having a decent USB-C cable and making sure the phone's charging port is clean and not worn out.
In case you are really interested on my detailed charging habits and related things on my V20, I discussed them while reviewing my batteries a while back on the V20 Subreddit.
Thanks!
C D said:
Faster charging will always generate more heat and put more stress on the battery, so slower charging would be better for a battery's lifespan, but I don't think you'll see a huge difference within two years.
By far the fastest way to keep going is having the second battery charged in an external battery charger and then swap when the other battery gets low, followed by charging the low battery in the external charger. Doing it this way also puts the least wear-and-tear on the phone's charging port since you'll rarely use it. I use LG's OEM external battery charging cradle (BCK-5200), but it may be hard to find nowadays. There's currently a used one up for sale in an auction by an American seller on eBay, and there are new ones from a South Korean seller for a higher fixed price. I wouldn't pay more than $25 for one. As for charging time, for me, it takes about 4 hours to charge my MaxxxJuice 4100 mAh batteries from ~5–10% to full. External chargers do not fast-charge, so you'll never put too much stress on the battery that way. Of course, swapping may not be for everyone as it may be inconvenient to take a case off and put it back on.
Unlike the older microUSB cables, bad USB Type-C cables that are not built to certain specifications can draw higher currents and destroy the devices they are charging. A few years ago, a Google engineer reviewed lots of USB-C cables on Amazon to give his view on those. If you need a third-party cable, make sure you get one from a reputable source with good reviews. My preferred USB cable is Anker's Powerline+ due to their extra strength/thickness, and I don't need much flexibility/twistability in my cables. Also, I like how the USB-C end connector is made of one single piece where you don't see any connecting lines around the middle (you can see an example here).
Other thoughts:
As long as there is a supply of extra batteries around and you can afford to buy them when the time comes, then you shouldn't worry much about how you charge your phone. In my opinion, that is one of the main selling points of having a hand-removable battery. I imagine a paranoid person on a phone with a sealed battery would be trying to keep the battery level between 40 and 80% at all times. So really, the only thing to worry about is having a decent USB-C cable and making sure the phone's charging port is clean and not worn out.
In case you are really interested on my detailed charging habits and related things on my V20, I discussed them while reviewing my batteries a while back on the V20 Subreddit.
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On that Subreddit, you mentioned you cycled a couple batteries. Did you have to do the whole fully charge and fully drain thing each time you switched to the new battery, or just when you first bought the batteries?
Would like to know the answer to ^this^ as well.
baldybill said:
On that Subreddit, you mentioned you cycled a couple batteries. Did you have to do the whole fully charge and fully drain thing each time you switched to the new battery, or just when you first bought the batteries?
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pistacios said:
Would like to know the answer to ^this^ as well.
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No, I only did the full cycle with the first battery three times, and that was it. The only reason to do that is for the Android software of the phone to get a better sense of your battery level. Of course, it won't be as accurate the longer you go swapping between batteries as undoubtedly they will differ a bit in capacity over time. But fully running down and then fully charging a battery isn't good for its lifespan if you do it too often. The only other times you'd have to really repeat the calibration is when switching to a battery with a different capacity or switching ROMs / doing a factory reset.
C D said:
No, I only did the full cycle with the first battery three times, and that was it. The only reason to do that is for the Android software of the phone to get a better sense of your battery level. Of course, it won't be as accurate the longer you go swapping between batteries as undoubtedly they will differ a bit in capacity over time. But fully running down and then fully charging a battery isn't good for its lifespan if you do it too often. The only other times you'd have to really repeat the calibration is when switching to a battery with a different capacity or switching ROMs / doing a factory reset.
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So, I got a 4000 Powerbear that I'm calibrating now.
I'm also getting a 4100 Perfine.
Are they close enough that I shouldn't have to recalibrate for the 4100?
baldybill said:
So, I got a 4000 Powerbear that I'm calibrating now.
I'm also getting a 4100 Perfine.
Are they close enough that I shouldn't have to recalibrate for the 4100?
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Most likely yes. I imagine most of these 4000–4300 mAh Lithium polymer batteries that started popping up this year are very similar, and some may just be rebranded from the same common factory source. Barring a defective battery, if the two batteries had a significant difference in capacity, you could see things like early shutdowns on the smaller capacity one or being stuck at a low percentage for an unusually long amount of time on the larger capacity one.
Great info.
So it looks like all other batteries on hand should not be put into rotation with the higher capacity batteries to avoid inaccurate readings in Android.
pistacios said:
Great info.
So it looks like all other batteries on hand should not be put into rotation with the higher capacity batteries to avoid inaccurate readings in Android.
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Pretty much this. I suppose one could try keeping separate copies of the batterystats.bin file from /data/system when rooted and swap them alongside the different batteries. But that sounds like too much of a pain to deal with, even if it works.
C D said:
Most likely yes. I imagine most of these 4000–4300 mAh Lithium polymer batteries that started popping up this year are very similar, and some may just be rebranded from the same common factory source. Barring a defective battery, if the two batteries had a significant difference in capacity, you could see things like early shutdowns on the smaller capacity one or being stuck at a low percentage for an unusually long amount of time on the larger capacity one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pistacios said:
Great info.
So it looks like all other batteries on hand should not be put into rotation with the higher capacity batteries to avoid inaccurate readings in Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
C D said:
Pretty much this. I suppose one could try keeping separate copies of the batterystats.bin file from /data/system when rooted and swap them alongside the different batteries. But that sounds like too much of a pain to deal with, even if it works.
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Just to add to this, I found your pics @C D for the charging instructions and there's a note about using 3200mah batteries along with the 4100mah batteries.
pistacios said:
Just to add to this, I found your pics @C D for the charging instructions and there's a note about using 3200mah batteries along with the 4100mah batteries.
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Does that mean that if you switch between the batteries, they'll both last as long as they should (the 4100 longer time than the orig. 3200), but the system's percent will be wrong?
My understanding is that if you calibrate the phone to recognize the full 4100mah and then use a 3200mah battery, it will shut down early (but still use the full 3200mah).
Correct. They are warning you that swapping between batteries of significantly different capacities will throw off the accuracy of the phone's battery percentage indicator at all times, especially at the high and low percent values (so an early shutdown can happen when the smaller capacity battery is used). Of course, this won't affect either battery's true capacity.
I'd pay good money for a system that can correctly handle different battery capacities of any amount, but we all know where the future of hand-removable batteries has been heading for the last 3–4 years.
Does anyone charge their phone ONLY to 80 % or so?
If so, what apps do you use to limit this? Any other tips/advice?
baldybill said:
Does anyone charge their phone ONLY to 80 % or so?
If so, what apps do you use to limit this? Any other tips/advice?
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I use AccuBattery and it has a notification sound that plays when you hit the target charge percentage, but it's still up to you to remove the phone from the charger or else it continues charging to 100%.
Since our phones have replaceable batteries, I haven't made any special effort to take care of them. I have a pair of May '17 OEM 3200 mAh batteries that are going to get switched out for a pair of new 4100+ mAh Li-Po batteries once I get my second V20 set up. Every charger I use is QuickCharge 3.0 certified except for USB on my PCs and my Pioneer Android Auto headunit USB connection in one car. The vast majority of the time, I charge via QC 3.0. Pretty much the only time I let the battery charge via PC USB is when I actually need to transfer files between the phone and computer.
Before my phone started having issues in the past month with a phantom power drain, I would let the phone charge from 30-40% to 80-90% and then remove it from the charger at night before going to sleep. In the last half year as the batteries have aged, I've let it get up to between 90-95% before unplugging. For the past month, I've been charging the phone four times a day from 40-100% to combat the power drain issue, but that comes with knowing that I don't care about these old batteries or the state of the firmware on this first V20 anymore.
As for when I swapped the two batteries I have, that entirely depended on when I actually ran one down so far that I needed a 0-100% battery swap, which could be months at a time and usually happened while on vacation or away from a charging source for a longer period of time than what my usual home/car/work routine allows.