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I want to know what is the difference of charging using the cradle and charging using the adaptor. Which will full charge the battery faster? Which is advisable for frequent use?
I belive USB porst can only supply more or less 300 mA and as stated in the adaptor it can provide upto 2A. I want to know what is the effects on the different ampere rating and how the XDA manage it? Also want to know if the XDA have a over charging protection circuit and where is it located (at the unit or at the battery).
unless you connect the psu to your cradle
then the 12volt 500mA that the usb port can give
will mean it takes a longer time to charge
but you can just connect the psu to the cradle and it's the same
cradle vs power supply
Power supply charges the battery faster than cradle, but does it have an effect on the battery life? which is better to use to prolong battery life, the cradle or the power supply? Or may it is just the same?
My Alpine has a Lithium Ion battery - Li-ions don't suffer from the same 'memory effect' which NiCads and NiMHs do, so don't worry about having to full discharge the battery every time, or charge the battery up to a full charge when you first get it - just plug it in and go, to be honest.
I can't see any reason for a variation in input voltage or current having any discernable effect on the life of the battery, it'll just take a little bit longer to charge, that's all (when the battery starts to get full, the voltage drops right down and the unit 'trickle charges' the battery anyway, so slightly less current won't matter anyway).
I've notice many ppl discuss about their aftermarket battery were unable to
reach 100% when using standalone aftermarket charger.
Just to point out that the S3's battery is using 4.35v cell instead of the usual 4.2v cell.
Most standard charger stops at 4.2v thus they'll stop at around 90%.
If you're looking for standalone charger. Best to look for charger rated at 4.35v.
(I rooted and change kernel to undervolt the CPU. the result is excellent, anyone who want longer run time should do it)
Every charger is 5 volts. The phone sets the charge voltage, not the charger, which is 5 volts.
The OP is referring to the voltage of the battery cells, not the USB charger (which is always 5V). The battery on the GS3 is in fact a higher voltage than most other phones (like the GS2). If you use an offline/standalone battery charger that does not charge to the full voltage of the GS3 battery the battery will show about 90% charged when you place it in the phone.
i wrote a review a few days ago on a stand alone charger i bought.
so far no problems with it charging my battery to 100%.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1924706
This is going to sound ridiculous, but I have to say it anyway.
I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 (SGH-i777), and I have two charging cables. A U9, and a U2.
When I charge the phone overnight with the U9 cable, I get a 100% rating on the charge, but the battery dies VERY fast. I unplug the phone at 7am, and it's down to 70% by 10am with very little use.
When I charge the phone overnight with the U2 cable, I get a 100% rating on the charge as well, but then the battery dies very slowly, the way I prefer it. I can use the phone moderately all day, and still have a good 30-40% when I get home after 5pm.
Clearly, I use the U2 cable, as this achieves my goal. My question is, why does it work this way? Is there something wrong with the U9 cable? Does it charge the battery differently than the U2?
Check what kind of charging the phone recognize "USB" or "AC". If it is USB the charging is slower (450mA) when AC is faster (650mA).
flash608 said:
Check what kind of charging the phone recognize "USB" or "AC". If it is USB the charging is slower (450mA) when AC is faster (650mA).
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I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is there a place in the menu of the phone to check for this?
I used to use the wall-outlet adapter with the U9 cable. Now I am using the same wall-outlet adapter with the U2 cable.
It`s hidden in Settings -> About Phone -> Status -> Battery Status (AC/USB)
Shibblet said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is there a place in the menu of the phone to check for this?
I used to use the wall-outlet adapter with the U9 cable. Now I am using the same wall-outlet adapter with the U2 cable.
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When you connect the usb cable the phone says that is connected like a media device and a usb symbol appear in status bar and notification area, it means that are charging at 450 mAh (like usb connected to PC), but if only see a charging battery indicator then is charging at 650 mAh (like Power AC Adapter).
But I really dont know if the charge duration is affected, maybe is overcharging your battery. Try this, charge until 100% with both, but disconnect it when the phone says that charge is complete and try. Maybe with the time the battery is overcharged and has more battery with one of the cables.
At a molecular level, the slower charging is more thorough and actually deposits more charge (energy) into the battery, which is why a slow charge rate results in a better performing cell or battery. Remember, batteries (or cells; a battery is just a collection of cells) change energy from chemical to electrical when providing power, and accept energy when being charged by converting electrical energy to chemical energy. That chemical change doesn't happen instantaneously, and is why a slow charge can actually raise a cell or battery's energy level higher.
Generally, the charger measures the charge state of the battery by the voltage of the cell or battery, and charging slowly allows the charge to more thoroughly dissipate through the cell. Rapidly charging, on the other hand, builds potential (voltage) quickly, but the quick charging doesn't allow the chemical change to occur thoroughly throughout the cells, and misleadingly indicates a higher voltage (charge state) than has actually occurred.
Think of the game of Tetris: When the blocks (incoming electrons) are falling slowly, it's easy to pack them tightly and fit more into the play area (battery). When they're coming in quickly, eventually you become unable to fit them all tightly without leaving voids, and the height of the stack (perceived charge level, or voltage) reaches the threshold without being fully packed (charged).
I hope this helps, four years after the question --Mike Jernigan, Greensboro
EightOhMike said:
At a molecular level, the slower charging is more thorough and actually deposits more charge (energy) into the battery, which is why a slow charge rate results in a better performing cell or battery. Remember, batteries (or cells; a battery is just a collection of cells) change energy from chemical to electrical when providing power, and accept energy when being charged by converting electrical energy to chemical energy. That chemical change doesn't happen instantaneously, and is why a slow charge can actually raise a cell or battery's energy level higher.
Generally, the charger measures the charge state of the battery by the voltage of the cell or battery, and charging slowly allows the charge to more thoroughly dissipate through the cell. Rapidly charging, on the other hand, builds potential (voltage) quickly, but the quick charging doesn't allow the chemical change to occur thoroughly throughout the cells, and misleadingly indicates a higher voltage (charge state) than has actually occurred.
Think of the game of Tetris: When the blocks (incoming electrons) are falling slowly, it's easy to pack them tightly and fit more into the play area (battery). When they're coming in quickly, eventually you become unable to fit them all tightly without leaving voids, and the height of the stack (perceived charge level, or voltage) reaches the threshold without being fully packed (charged).
I hope this helps, four years after the question --Mike Jernigan, Greensboro
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4 year? You waited 4 year ???
Hey guys,
I've used my HP touchpad charger a couple times now and it seems to drastically speed up charging. I thought I'd see if anyone else had experienced this as well.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
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That's not right. The charging speed is limited by the battery and their charging managemend, not by the charger. If the battery management is configured at 1A it is charging with 1A even if you use a 2A charger.
If you can charge the HTC One with a bigger charger faster than it is not negative for the battery because it's allowed by the battery management. But I don't think, that it is really faster. I will test it for myself later with the 2A Charger from the ipad.
jhonsok said:
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
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I do know where this is coming from but just isn't the case anymore. All batteries made for cells phones in the last 2 years have smart charging chips in them. Meaning they can not overcharge, charge too fast, or discharge too much. These batteries have tech built in that could charge them in about a hour. People think this was disabled to help prolong the life of the battery. This is also false. Fast charging does have a slightly negative effect but we are talking about 2% negative. So if the battery would have went through 2000 charge cycles normally than with a fast charge it would only last around 1180 charge cycles. It's a non difference. It is the reason people have been saying that the fast charge feature is disabled but they have no idea and it sounds good so the community here has decided it to be true.
Now technically it should not matter what amp charger we plug in as the phone should only take a certain amount. Now I know this is false as I also use the 2amp Touchpad charger and can confirm it does charge around 30% faster.
Can someone explain why the power capability of the charger makes any difference?
Rules of electronics. V = IR or in this case I = V/R Current = Voltage / Resistance
By definition if too much current is drawn from the power supply the voltage will collapse. Similarly, at any given voltage and input resistance, the current will never exceed a certain level.
So the worst that can happen is you damage a power supply trying to charge a greedy iPad with an under spec'd power supply.
But I see certain devices that say, never use a 2A charger as it can damage the device? Why? By definition it will never draw more current than the circuit is designed for.....what am I missing?
jonstatt said:
Can someone explain why the power capability of the charger makes any difference?
Rules of electronics. V = IR or in this case I = V/R Current = Voltage / Resistance
By definition if too much current is drawn from the power supply the voltage will collapse. Similarly, at any given voltage and input resistance, the current will never exceed a certain level.
So the worst that can happen is you damage a power supply trying to charge a greedy iPad with an under spec'd power supply.
But I see certain devices that say, never use a 2A charger as it can damage the device? Why? By definition it will never draw more current than the circuit is designed for.....what am I missing?
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Nothing at all :cyclops:
Now if you use a .5 amp you do run the risk of burning it out as the device will try and pull more than .5amp and will succeed putting too much strain on the charger.
AFAIK the charging voltage/amperage is dynamically controlled by software(kernel). Starting from empty the voltage will be higher, but decreasing when battery is getting fuller.
VeixES said:
AFAIK the charging voltage/amperage is dynamically controlled by software(kernel). Starting from empty the voltage will be higher, but decreasing when battery is getting fuller.
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The voltage of the power supply should be a controlled 5V (I know some poor supplies are not so perfect). The only way of changing the current being drawn is to change the resistance , but that would be a constant as determined by the battery itself (its current draw will change depending on how full it is at the time). If there was actually a charge controller circuit in the phone itself, then it should not matter whether you have 2A, 5A or 50A, because it should only ever draw the power it needs. Also if there was effectively a "short circuit" and you tried to draw 2A from a 1A power supply, the power supply voltage would collapse and charging would simply stop. Therefore the charging circuit will have been designed with an expected current flow. As voltage is 5V and the input resistance always remains constant, the charging current can never be more or less than what was intended by design! Of course if the power supply outputs 10V instead of 5V, then it WILL draw more current and do lots of damage!
Think of it this way. If you run at 5 mph, it doesn't matter whether you are 3 feet tall or 6 feet tall, you will still arrive at the destination at exactly the same time.
There are different cables that can be purchased that essentially have just the positive and negative connections in use. This removes the control connections that allow the phone to regulate the amount of power so it allows the device to charge at a faster rate.
I have used these cables for years on many devices and have never had a problem but it is worth noting that I only use them sparingly and the vast majority of the time I use the standard chargers that come with the devices.
MG
Stop with the FUD people, the only thing that matters is the voltage of the charger. It needs to be 5V or else it will damage the phone. Otherwise, the phone will self limit the amount of charge taken in.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
fast charging batteries is not as good as slow charging for the batteries. It's not terrible, but it is worse for their health.
the smart chips in the phones are allowing to be faster charged = faster charge times. HTC probably allowed this because they knew it would pacify complaints about their slow charge.
The htc engineers saw it fit to include the charger they did, they know its charges slow, it's for a reason.
nullkill said:
Fast charging does have a slightly negative effect but we are talking about 2% negative. So if the battery would have went through 2000 charge cycles normally than with a fast charge it would only last around 1180 charge cycles. It's a non difference. It is the reason people have been saying that the fast charge feature is disabled but they have no idea and it sounds good so the community here has decided it to be true.
Now technically it should not matter what amp charger we plug in as the phone should only take a certain amount. Now I know this is false as I also use the 2amp Touchpad charger and can confirm it does charge around 30% faster.
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Your numbers are a little off i'm afraid. If its only a 2% issue from 2000 charges.. you show 1180 to be then new charge..thats almost 50%. 50% would be 1000 charges.. 2% from 2000 would be 1960 Better number for your point
the_scotsman said:
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
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Yeah it will degrade it quicker, but not significantly. I agree with the previous posts. Its fine to use a charger with higher amps than needed but its not good to use lower amps. (lower than 500ma) Lower amps will kill chargers quick. If usb is 500ma then these phones must be fine with variable amps (within its limits) I dont know what the variable numbers are but say its 500ma min, 2A max.. using a 3A charger or a 5A charger shouldnt make a difference in charge speed. It'll only draw 2A. (again hypothetical 2A here, 1.5 may be the max.) That being said... i wouldnt use a 2A as your primary or overnight charger though(unless you only sleep 3 hours ), no need for it..Since these phones dont have a replaceable battery your overnight charger should probably be 1A. Use a 2A during the day if you need a quick boost.
nugzo said:
Yeah it will degrade it quicker, but not significantly. I agree with the previous posts. Its fine to use a charger with higher amps than needed but its not good to use lower amps. (lower than 500ma) Lower amps will kill chargers quick. If usb is 500ma then these phones must be fine with variable amps (within its limits) I dont know what the variable numbers are but say its 500ma min, 2A max.. using a 3A charger or a 5A charger shouldnt make a difference in charge speed. It'll only draw 2A. (again hypothetical 2A here, 1.5 may be the max.) That being said... i wouldnt use a 2A as your primary or overnight charger though(unless you only sleep 3 hours ), no need for it..Since these phones dont have a replaceable battery your overnight charger should probably be 1A. Use a 2A during the day if you need a quick boost.
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I used a Samsung 0.7A OEM charger for a while for my previous phones and always thought that the power is capped by the output of the adapter. If it's rated 0.7A the adapter can output up to what it was rated for; That is wrong on that assumption. Using Current Widget app also appear to support this as well as it was drawing on my S3, 0.999 mA when this adapter as in. I have switched to the 1A adapter because of that; the read outs using the app still shows up as 0.999 mA.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=40630411#post40630411
If using a higher one is no good like 2A, I guess we would be able to see what Current Widget saids as well. Supposedly the phone pulls what it needs to my understanding.
the_scotsman said:
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
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I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
banksc said:
I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
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here's a source. HTC engineers decided to include the charger they did.
bob13bob said:
here's a source. HTC engineers decided to include the charger they did.
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Wow, aren't you a helpful one. There is much more to the H/W selection than what the charging circuit is capable of... Chargers don't "force" a current on the battery. The charging circuit draws what it needs from a charger, assuming it can supply what is drawn. A well designed charging circuit will draw no more than what the battery is capable of without damage. The only factor is heat, which should be accounted for at a nominal level. If heat was't properly accounted for, or they short changed the charging circuit (like the charger) there could be an issue long term.
As an application side note, I had a 2 or 2.1A charger on my Atrix 4G for the 2+ years I owned it and still on the original battery that will last me an 18hr day. You don't do anyone favors talking about stuff you don't know anything about.
banksc said:
Wow, aren't you a helpful one. There is much more to the H/W selection than what the charging circuit is capable of... Chargers don't "force" a current on the battery. The charging circuit draws what it needs from a charger, assuming it can supply what is drawn. A well designed charging circuit will draw no more than what the battery is capable of without damage. The only factor is heat, which should be accounted for at a nominal level. If heat was't properly accounted for, or they short changed the charging circuit (like the charger) there could be an issue long term.
As an application side note, I had a 2 or 2.1A charger on my Atrix 4G for the 2+ years I owned it and still on the original battery that will last me an 18hr day. You don't do anyone favors talking about stuff you don't know anything about.
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It's already documented that other chargers charge the phone faster. HTC included a slow charger for a reason. You don't know more about battery technology then they do. Fast chargers are like $5 for us on amazon. htc can buy them for a $1. There reason is not cost. Why do you think HTC inclduded the charger they did.
There is no perfect battery with unlimited recharge cycles no matter how perfectly designed. Fast charging won't cause you device to explode, but it will accelerate the regular degradation process.
Htc knew people would complain about slow charging, so they allow other chargers to charge the battery faster on case by case, even if it means degradation (slight to moderate) of the battery over time.
You read more about fast charging vs slow charging in the battery geek forums.
banksc said:
I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
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It comes from my own knowledge and experience. These are facts. If you choose not to believe them that's fine. And yes, I mentioned heat if you look back. And no, these are not properly designed systems.
The HTC One definitely takes a while to charge. What’s interesting however is that the charge curve gets the One to 85–90 percent under the normal 3 or so hours, it’s that last ten percent that takes forever. I also have confirmed that Qualcomm’s Quick Charge is not being used on the HTC One, for whatever reason, possibly to maximize compatibility with the portable USB battery chargers that are now proliferating. The PMIC is there, it just isn’t enabled. My guess would be that HTC wants to prioritize battery longevity and minimize any even potential extra wear since the battery on the One is sealed inside.
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source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6747/htc-one-review/3
told ya =)
Hi all
Is there a definite answer to how you should charge your battery? Is it better to charge it before it gets to 40% like I have read or does it not really matter?
Also does charging it overnight do any damage?
Thanks all
Chris
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
The problem with battery care is that it has been tainted with old information that no longer applies to modern batteries.
The charging and discharging of the battery is tightly controlled by an IC to maximise life regardless of how you use it. All you need to be concerned with is making sure it doesn't sit fully discharged or fully charged for long periods (this is why when you first unbox a device it has about half charge)
Doesn't matter... just charge it when u think it s need to be charged...
High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).
Put it this way:
You will have moved on from this device long before you would notice any battery problems caused by "bump charging", charging overnight, or any other normal charging behavior.
Check the Battery University for details about charging Lithium-ion polymer.
tni.andro said:
High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).
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Gulp none of that made sense
chrisnewton said:
Gulp none of that made sense
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Then you need not worry about it. As I said, the battery is controlled by a fairly sophisticated IC, just charge it whenever you need to.
these batteries love refridgerators. you charge it when it comes to about 20-25%. I'm not compelling anyone, it's just that I've had this type of cycle since three years on my faithful ol' HTC Desire. Now its all burned, but I did have something to compare it with. My czn also got an htc desire a couple of days after i got it, and he is charge-freak. He charges his phone in his home, car, uni, bank, everywhere he can get his hands on a socket. The result: he's run down 4 batteries, and is on the brink of a 5th one. while I had only one throughout my three-year life cycle of my Desire.
So, try not to overheat your battery. Don't use it when charging. Charge it before you sleep at night, and let it rest for overnight. This overnight rest boosts battery life, and your charge will last almost 2 days. this is my personal experience speaking, and with the multitude of custom OC UV kernels out there, you might wanna go Chuck Norris with your battery.
Generally the most common way people damage the batteries is just by heat. Other charging ideals aren't really all that important in the grand scheme of things. The phone and chargers are smart enough to handle the other aspects.
Heat's a problem because the act of charging actually creates heat. So while you think it may not be too hot when it's charging in the mid-day sun in your car, it will be when it warms up from charging. It'll get so hot, in fact, that it may even refuse to charge, although you see this happen more on phones than tablets.
Also, don't leave your tablet dead for a month. That's bad. I don't think anyone does this, though, because what's the point of having a tablet if you leave it dead for a month?