This is going to sound ridiculous, but I have to say it anyway.
I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 (SGH-i777), and I have two charging cables. A U9, and a U2.
When I charge the phone overnight with the U9 cable, I get a 100% rating on the charge, but the battery dies VERY fast. I unplug the phone at 7am, and it's down to 70% by 10am with very little use.
When I charge the phone overnight with the U2 cable, I get a 100% rating on the charge as well, but then the battery dies very slowly, the way I prefer it. I can use the phone moderately all day, and still have a good 30-40% when I get home after 5pm.
Clearly, I use the U2 cable, as this achieves my goal. My question is, why does it work this way? Is there something wrong with the U9 cable? Does it charge the battery differently than the U2?
Check what kind of charging the phone recognize "USB" or "AC". If it is USB the charging is slower (450mA) when AC is faster (650mA).
flash608 said:
Check what kind of charging the phone recognize "USB" or "AC". If it is USB the charging is slower (450mA) when AC is faster (650mA).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is there a place in the menu of the phone to check for this?
I used to use the wall-outlet adapter with the U9 cable. Now I am using the same wall-outlet adapter with the U2 cable.
It`s hidden in Settings -> About Phone -> Status -> Battery Status (AC/USB)
Shibblet said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is there a place in the menu of the phone to check for this?
I used to use the wall-outlet adapter with the U9 cable. Now I am using the same wall-outlet adapter with the U2 cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you connect the usb cable the phone says that is connected like a media device and a usb symbol appear in status bar and notification area, it means that are charging at 450 mAh (like usb connected to PC), but if only see a charging battery indicator then is charging at 650 mAh (like Power AC Adapter).
But I really dont know if the charge duration is affected, maybe is overcharging your battery. Try this, charge until 100% with both, but disconnect it when the phone says that charge is complete and try. Maybe with the time the battery is overcharged and has more battery with one of the cables.
At a molecular level, the slower charging is more thorough and actually deposits more charge (energy) into the battery, which is why a slow charge rate results in a better performing cell or battery. Remember, batteries (or cells; a battery is just a collection of cells) change energy from chemical to electrical when providing power, and accept energy when being charged by converting electrical energy to chemical energy. That chemical change doesn't happen instantaneously, and is why a slow charge can actually raise a cell or battery's energy level higher.
Generally, the charger measures the charge state of the battery by the voltage of the cell or battery, and charging slowly allows the charge to more thoroughly dissipate through the cell. Rapidly charging, on the other hand, builds potential (voltage) quickly, but the quick charging doesn't allow the chemical change to occur thoroughly throughout the cells, and misleadingly indicates a higher voltage (charge state) than has actually occurred.
Think of the game of Tetris: When the blocks (incoming electrons) are falling slowly, it's easy to pack them tightly and fit more into the play area (battery). When they're coming in quickly, eventually you become unable to fit them all tightly without leaving voids, and the height of the stack (perceived charge level, or voltage) reaches the threshold without being fully packed (charged).
I hope this helps, four years after the question --Mike Jernigan, Greensboro
EightOhMike said:
At a molecular level, the slower charging is more thorough and actually deposits more charge (energy) into the battery, which is why a slow charge rate results in a better performing cell or battery. Remember, batteries (or cells; a battery is just a collection of cells) change energy from chemical to electrical when providing power, and accept energy when being charged by converting electrical energy to chemical energy. That chemical change doesn't happen instantaneously, and is why a slow charge can actually raise a cell or battery's energy level higher.
Generally, the charger measures the charge state of the battery by the voltage of the cell or battery, and charging slowly allows the charge to more thoroughly dissipate through the cell. Rapidly charging, on the other hand, builds potential (voltage) quickly, but the quick charging doesn't allow the chemical change to occur thoroughly throughout the cells, and misleadingly indicates a higher voltage (charge state) than has actually occurred.
Think of the game of Tetris: When the blocks (incoming electrons) are falling slowly, it's easy to pack them tightly and fit more into the play area (battery). When they're coming in quickly, eventually you become unable to fit them all tightly without leaving voids, and the height of the stack (perceived charge level, or voltage) reaches the threshold without being fully packed (charged).
I hope this helps, four years after the question --Mike Jernigan, Greensboro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4 year? You waited 4 year ???
Related
I want to know what is the difference of charging using the cradle and charging using the adaptor. Which will full charge the battery faster? Which is advisable for frequent use?
I belive USB porst can only supply more or less 300 mA and as stated in the adaptor it can provide upto 2A. I want to know what is the effects on the different ampere rating and how the XDA manage it? Also want to know if the XDA have a over charging protection circuit and where is it located (at the unit or at the battery).
unless you connect the psu to your cradle
then the 12volt 500mA that the usb port can give
will mean it takes a longer time to charge
but you can just connect the psu to the cradle and it's the same
cradle vs power supply
Power supply charges the battery faster than cradle, but does it have an effect on the battery life? which is better to use to prolong battery life, the cradle or the power supply? Or may it is just the same?
My Alpine has a Lithium Ion battery - Li-ions don't suffer from the same 'memory effect' which NiCads and NiMHs do, so don't worry about having to full discharge the battery every time, or charge the battery up to a full charge when you first get it - just plug it in and go, to be honest.
I can't see any reason for a variation in input voltage or current having any discernable effect on the life of the battery, it'll just take a little bit longer to charge, that's all (when the battery starts to get full, the voltage drops right down and the unit 'trickle charges' the battery anyway, so slightly less current won't matter anyway).
Hi all
Is there a definite answer to how you should charge your battery? Is it better to charge it before it gets to 40% like I have read or does it not really matter?
Also does charging it overnight do any damage?
Thanks all
Chris
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
The problem with battery care is that it has been tainted with old information that no longer applies to modern batteries.
The charging and discharging of the battery is tightly controlled by an IC to maximise life regardless of how you use it. All you need to be concerned with is making sure it doesn't sit fully discharged or fully charged for long periods (this is why when you first unbox a device it has about half charge)
Doesn't matter... just charge it when u think it s need to be charged...
High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).
Put it this way:
You will have moved on from this device long before you would notice any battery problems caused by "bump charging", charging overnight, or any other normal charging behavior.
Check the Battery University for details about charging Lithium-ion polymer.
tni.andro said:
High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gulp none of that made sense
chrisnewton said:
Gulp none of that made sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you need not worry about it. As I said, the battery is controlled by a fairly sophisticated IC, just charge it whenever you need to.
these batteries love refridgerators. you charge it when it comes to about 20-25%. I'm not compelling anyone, it's just that I've had this type of cycle since three years on my faithful ol' HTC Desire. Now its all burned, but I did have something to compare it with. My czn also got an htc desire a couple of days after i got it, and he is charge-freak. He charges his phone in his home, car, uni, bank, everywhere he can get his hands on a socket. The result: he's run down 4 batteries, and is on the brink of a 5th one. while I had only one throughout my three-year life cycle of my Desire.
So, try not to overheat your battery. Don't use it when charging. Charge it before you sleep at night, and let it rest for overnight. This overnight rest boosts battery life, and your charge will last almost 2 days. this is my personal experience speaking, and with the multitude of custom OC UV kernels out there, you might wanna go Chuck Norris with your battery.
Generally the most common way people damage the batteries is just by heat. Other charging ideals aren't really all that important in the grand scheme of things. The phone and chargers are smart enough to handle the other aspects.
Heat's a problem because the act of charging actually creates heat. So while you think it may not be too hot when it's charging in the mid-day sun in your car, it will be when it warms up from charging. It'll get so hot, in fact, that it may even refuse to charge, although you see this happen more on phones than tablets.
Also, don't leave your tablet dead for a month. That's bad. I don't think anyone does this, though, because what's the point of having a tablet if you leave it dead for a month?
When I go to sleep at night, I usually leave my phone plugged in until I wake up. I need my phone to have a full battery when I awake, and this is the only option that I know of. I was wondering if there is a way to force the phone to charge a little more slowly so that it isn't sitting plugged in on the charger with a full battery for a few hours until I wake up, as I understand this can damage your battery and reduce longevity. Anyone have any suggestions?
Maybe you could use a low amperage charger?
With original charger (1.2A if I'm not wrong), it took nearly 6h for my phone to fully charge (while it was new and on factory software). Even the charger is declared as 1.2A, charging current never went over 700mA so you can safely leave it on charger, with no worries... Devices do have a overcharge protection, and simply will stop charging second battery sensor gives "Full" state (you can test that with Ampere - you'll get the charging current and see that even after 100% is reached, battery continues to charge for a while, until "Full" state is set by the sensor). Battery quality will deteriorate no matter what you do - they are made to survive some number of recharging cycles and that's it - mine suddenly started loosing capacity fast, after 2.5 years (or around 1000 cycles), out of blue, and you can just replace it. Same story with other phones I have/had: simply, after 2.5-3y their batteries start loosing capacity rapidly.
I would not recommend weaker charger (under 700mA) because our device has 250-400mA drain during idle, and if you want your phone to be full same moment you're awake, you may get a nasty surprise of "Charging" status Anything around 1A is more than enough.
Thanks so much! That answers my question.
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
513263337 said:
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You made my night... Slower charger kills battery not fast charging.. fast charge save battery to be honest. And you dont have to be worry since the batteries now are LI-lon . Go get info in google about the batteries . All i can say you got infos wrong.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Agree with previous post. But if it makes you feel better, just don't use a dash charger...
Very simple.
lummujaj said:
You made my night... Slower charger kills battery not fast charging.. fast charge save battery to be honest. And you dont have to be worry since the batteries now are LI-lon . Go get info in google about the batteries . All i can say you got infos wrong.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK. I didn't know.
I was speaking from my past experience with Samsung Galaxy Note 4. I bought couple of original Samsung batteries and rotate them throughout daily usage. I noticed a significant difference in battery life comparing the ones that I used fast charge on vs the ones I didn't. After that I stick to NOT using fast charge.
Of course, that's nothing scientific. And Samsung uses a different fast charge mechanism (higher voltage) than OnePlus (higher current), so there could be difference there too.
Because Dash Charge seems to be re-labeled Vooc charging from OPPO, I can tell you, that the last two years with charging minimum one times every day, there is no bad effect on the battery (still the first one).
Sent from my Find7 using XDA-Developers mobile app
513263337 said:
OK. I didn't know.
I was speaking from my past experience with Samsung Galaxy Note 4. I bought couple of original Samsung batteries and rotate them throughout daily usage. I noticed a significant difference in battery life comparing the ones that I used fast charge on vs the ones I didn't. After that I stick to NOT using fast charge.
Of course, that's nothing scientific. And Samsung uses a different fast charge mechanism (higher voltage) than OnePlus (higher current), so there could be difference there too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung devices are notorious for killing batteries and its more likely hardware than it is the battery itself, u will be fine
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
513263337 said:
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Samsung 1.5 Amp charger and keep my battery between 40% to 80%
I think these are best for long term usage.
repsol89 said:
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
iam_adarsh said:
I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it was my first thought, but everyone in this topic is telling me that OP works different than Samsung!
iam_adarsh said:
I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's the problem of the charger or the phone itself. thecharger is designed not to charge when the battery is full. What I want to say is you experienced an accident and sorry for you.
The most serious threat to the battery is high temperature. OnePlus 3 reduce the charging heat by its dash charge. The dash charge pushes low voltage directly to the phone, which mitigates the heating problem by pushing high electric current and making the voltage transition process in dash charger. Most of other phones still use high voltage because they fail to create high current. recalling the physics in high school, the power is current multiplied by voltage and energy equals to power multiplied by time. than you would understand the powerful feature of dash charge
dlhxr said:
that's the problem of the charger or the phone itself. thecharger is designed not to charge when the battery is full. What I want to say is you experienced an accident and sorry for you.
The most serious threat to the battery is high temperature. OnePlus 3 reduce the charging heat by its dash charge. The dash charge pushes low voltage directly to the phone, which mitigates the heating problem by pushing high electric current and making the voltage transition process in dash charger. Most of other phones still use high voltage because they fail to create high current. recalling the physics in high school, the power is current multiplied by voltage and energy equals to power multiplied by time. than you would understand the powerful feature of dash charge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The power is current multiplied by voltage so what's the difference between high current mutiplied by low voltage versus low current multiplied by high voltage ?
2V x A = V x 2A
lapocompris said:
The power is current multiplied by voltage so what's the difference between high current mutiplied by low voltage versus low current multiplied by high voltage ?
2V x A = V x 2A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
qc3.0 uses low current and high voltage. Dash uses high current and low voltage. As a result, they have similar power and both charge quickly. However, the heating problem is more serious for qc 3.0. The difference of the battery voltage and charger voltage is the leading factor that determines the transition efficiency. The bigger the difference is, the more heat charging process generates.
So~ you could look up for qc3.0. for mi 5, it has three adaptive mode: 5V2.5A、9V2A、12V1.5A. for dash, we have 5V4A
repsol89 said:
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no problem with leaving your phone on the charger. I do this with every phone since years.
If people experience something bad with it, their phone or battery are broken. The current tech just keeps the battery at full capacity once it's full. Never had any problem.
So many "opinions" but mostly incorrect. The answer to the OPs question is that you don't have to worry about quick charge destroying your battery. It will not have significant impact on your battery capacity. I would have been more worried about breaking the usb type-c port(see point 2 below). All things considered, after 2-3 years you will probably buy a new phone anyway and also you can always buy a replacement battery cheap. But you can simply use a normal charger which delivers <3A with 5V so you don't have to worry about anything.
1- Slow charge does not damage lithium-ion chemistry batteries. You can read about lithium-ion charging here. But neither fast charge will damage lithium-ion as long as the battery temperature is not extremely high. Also temperature at different charge stages effect the capacity decrease (source) But you will be fine as long as the battery temperature is less than 45C. The charging IC should stop the charging process if it exceeds it anyway.
2- Qualcomm's quick charge is much better than voop/dash charge from an engineering standpoint. This is why also USB organization's power delivery (PD) standard uses similar scheme. The problem is the cable and the connector. The maximum allowed current at 5V is 3A with usb type-c connector (source). If you provide more current, you need to use a thicker cable(dash/vooc cables). But you can't change the connector, and it may damage your connector in the long run to use 3+A currents to charge. Because there is a contact resistance (R) and the power lost in the connector is square of current (I) times R. Meaning R*I^2, it will wear off the connector faster. This is why some companies with some engineering skills opt in to use higher voltages instead of higher currents.
3- You can't push more current to lithium-ion battery than it accepts. The maximum current is voltage delta (between charging voltage and battery voltage) divided by internal resistance. This is why you can charge empty battery much faster. If you use an app like Ampere from play store, you can see the voltage of your battery before and after you plug in your charger. If you plug in a normal charger, you will see that it goes up a little bit. If you plug a quick charger it goes up to ~4.35V
4- Yes, there is conversion inefficiencies for quick charge inside the phone, and it will warm up the "phone" and battery only indirectly. The conversion IC are normally >90% efficient (source). This does not mean that your battery will be destroyed. It is perfectly fine to charge lithium-batteries with up to 45C temperatures (source).
4- If overnight charging killed your battery, your battery was faulty (or you had 3rd party battery?). The battery should be capable of holding 4.35v charge. You would need to store battery at 4.35V full charge for over 3 months to loose 20% capacity (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries). Having full charge few hours overnight won't destroy it unless your battery or device is faulty.
With all this information, I would rather opt in for USB-PD/Qualcomm Quick Charge solutions than VOOC/DASH solutions. I think eventually only USB-PD will remain and everybody will use it as a standard only.
Hi Guys,
I am planning to use my Nexus 5X for home use only (without SIM and rooted) and want to check if Battery is good or bad (for replacement).
I dont trust that much Battery apps on play store (I Dont know what theyre doing).
So some experts here who knows when battery is bad or not (maybe voltage or something) ?
Info:
I dont have any professional electric measurement stuff or anything like that
Nexus 5x is on newest Firmware (non rooted / custom)
Battery seems ok from outside - no expanding or anything else negative
Hope, somebody can help.
nobody ?
I agree with you that the battery capacity from an App probably isn't very reliable. What I do to really test the battery is the following. On Ebay I bought this USB tester which not only shows Voltage and Current but it can track the current over time, integrate it and show the total amount of mAhrs drawn.
First, your phone's battery needs to be empty. I just use the phone until it powers itself off. Obviously this goes faster if you keep the phone active. Then when the phone has shut itself down, charge it through the USB tester. There's a button on the tester to reset it to 0000 mAhrs. Then let the phone charge. Since the USB tester is USB and not USB-C you will have to use a USB charger (pick one that can deliver 2 A or more) and a standard USB to USB-C cable. Charging may take a couple of hours. When the current on the tester shows a low value the phone is charged and you can read the capacity that was charged.
It is possible that the actual capacity of the battery is slightly larger than the value measured by the USB tester. That will be the case if the phone's charging circuit uses a switching charging regulator because then it will be able to convert the 5 V charging voltage to the 4.2 V battery voltage almost without losses and that would mean a slightly higher current at the battery. I am unsure if the Nexus 5X has such a switching charging regulator, probably it does as it would get quite hot if it didn't especially while it is fast charging.
The Nexus 5 devices I have access to measure at around 2100 mAh. If your value is close to that then the battery isn't worn out more than average.
Yep you right, didnt think about to "monitor" electrical charge from USB directly... Thanks
I know reading electrical charge out from USB dont show the exact amount of power... I mean you have power loss from the USB resistors (I think)
A friend of mine told me also: I have to test more then one "USB testers" - reason: some (not all) passthrough the quick charge signal properly -> phone charging fall back to USB charge on 500mv -> more tollerance from USB tester (If I dont misunderstood)
The USB method will always have some error. But "some (not all) passthrough the quick charge signal properly" isn't relevant, if that is the case then the phone will simply charge slower. Also the Nexus 5 can only use 5V as the USB voltage, it doesn't support 9 V or 12 V Quickcharging at all.
How accurate the USB method is depends on how the phone is designed and how you charge it. When the phone is active (switched on) it will consume some power which is added to the measurement. So I switch my phone off when testing it. Then always some energy is lost in the charging circuit. It depends on how it is implemented.
To really accurately measure the battery capacity you'd have to disconnect it from the phone and connect it to a charger (or discharger) that can measure battery capacity. But then there's the issue of what voltages to use as "empty" and "full" voltage. If you'd charge the battery to 4.3 V you get a bit more capacity but it stresses the battery more resulting in a shorter lifetime. That's why 4.1 V or 4.2 V are more commonly used as the "full" voltage. It is similar with the "empty" voltage, lower gives more capacity at the cost of stress on the battery.
All in all, battery capacity can only be measured accurately under strict and well defined conditions. But for a rough indication the USB method works well.
OK understand.
Is there any percentage, voltage or other value on liion batterys to identy it as "dead" ? I mean a "common" value to identy dead liion batterys or do they differ ?