Hey guys,
I've used my HP touchpad charger a couple times now and it seems to drastically speed up charging. I thought I'd see if anyone else had experienced this as well.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
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That's not right. The charging speed is limited by the battery and their charging managemend, not by the charger. If the battery management is configured at 1A it is charging with 1A even if you use a 2A charger.
If you can charge the HTC One with a bigger charger faster than it is not negative for the battery because it's allowed by the battery management. But I don't think, that it is really faster. I will test it for myself later with the 2A Charger from the ipad.
jhonsok said:
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
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I do know where this is coming from but just isn't the case anymore. All batteries made for cells phones in the last 2 years have smart charging chips in them. Meaning they can not overcharge, charge too fast, or discharge too much. These batteries have tech built in that could charge them in about a hour. People think this was disabled to help prolong the life of the battery. This is also false. Fast charging does have a slightly negative effect but we are talking about 2% negative. So if the battery would have went through 2000 charge cycles normally than with a fast charge it would only last around 1180 charge cycles. It's a non difference. It is the reason people have been saying that the fast charge feature is disabled but they have no idea and it sounds good so the community here has decided it to be true.
Now technically it should not matter what amp charger we plug in as the phone should only take a certain amount. Now I know this is false as I also use the 2amp Touchpad charger and can confirm it does charge around 30% faster.
Can someone explain why the power capability of the charger makes any difference?
Rules of electronics. V = IR or in this case I = V/R Current = Voltage / Resistance
By definition if too much current is drawn from the power supply the voltage will collapse. Similarly, at any given voltage and input resistance, the current will never exceed a certain level.
So the worst that can happen is you damage a power supply trying to charge a greedy iPad with an under spec'd power supply.
But I see certain devices that say, never use a 2A charger as it can damage the device? Why? By definition it will never draw more current than the circuit is designed for.....what am I missing?
jonstatt said:
Can someone explain why the power capability of the charger makes any difference?
Rules of electronics. V = IR or in this case I = V/R Current = Voltage / Resistance
By definition if too much current is drawn from the power supply the voltage will collapse. Similarly, at any given voltage and input resistance, the current will never exceed a certain level.
So the worst that can happen is you damage a power supply trying to charge a greedy iPad with an under spec'd power supply.
But I see certain devices that say, never use a 2A charger as it can damage the device? Why? By definition it will never draw more current than the circuit is designed for.....what am I missing?
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Nothing at all :cyclops:
Now if you use a .5 amp you do run the risk of burning it out as the device will try and pull more than .5amp and will succeed putting too much strain on the charger.
AFAIK the charging voltage/amperage is dynamically controlled by software(kernel). Starting from empty the voltage will be higher, but decreasing when battery is getting fuller.
VeixES said:
AFAIK the charging voltage/amperage is dynamically controlled by software(kernel). Starting from empty the voltage will be higher, but decreasing when battery is getting fuller.
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The voltage of the power supply should be a controlled 5V (I know some poor supplies are not so perfect). The only way of changing the current being drawn is to change the resistance , but that would be a constant as determined by the battery itself (its current draw will change depending on how full it is at the time). If there was actually a charge controller circuit in the phone itself, then it should not matter whether you have 2A, 5A or 50A, because it should only ever draw the power it needs. Also if there was effectively a "short circuit" and you tried to draw 2A from a 1A power supply, the power supply voltage would collapse and charging would simply stop. Therefore the charging circuit will have been designed with an expected current flow. As voltage is 5V and the input resistance always remains constant, the charging current can never be more or less than what was intended by design! Of course if the power supply outputs 10V instead of 5V, then it WILL draw more current and do lots of damage!
Think of it this way. If you run at 5 mph, it doesn't matter whether you are 3 feet tall or 6 feet tall, you will still arrive at the destination at exactly the same time.
There are different cables that can be purchased that essentially have just the positive and negative connections in use. This removes the control connections that allow the phone to regulate the amount of power so it allows the device to charge at a faster rate.
I have used these cables for years on many devices and have never had a problem but it is worth noting that I only use them sparingly and the vast majority of the time I use the standard chargers that come with the devices.
MG
Stop with the FUD people, the only thing that matters is the voltage of the charger. It needs to be 5V or else it will damage the phone. Otherwise, the phone will self limit the amount of charge taken in.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
fast charging batteries is not as good as slow charging for the batteries. It's not terrible, but it is worse for their health.
the smart chips in the phones are allowing to be faster charged = faster charge times. HTC probably allowed this because they knew it would pacify complaints about their slow charge.
The htc engineers saw it fit to include the charger they did, they know its charges slow, it's for a reason.
nullkill said:
Fast charging does have a slightly negative effect but we are talking about 2% negative. So if the battery would have went through 2000 charge cycles normally than with a fast charge it would only last around 1180 charge cycles. It's a non difference. It is the reason people have been saying that the fast charge feature is disabled but they have no idea and it sounds good so the community here has decided it to be true.
Now technically it should not matter what amp charger we plug in as the phone should only take a certain amount. Now I know this is false as I also use the 2amp Touchpad charger and can confirm it does charge around 30% faster.
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Your numbers are a little off i'm afraid. If its only a 2% issue from 2000 charges.. you show 1180 to be then new charge..thats almost 50%. 50% would be 1000 charges.. 2% from 2000 would be 1960 Better number for your point
the_scotsman said:
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
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Yeah it will degrade it quicker, but not significantly. I agree with the previous posts. Its fine to use a charger with higher amps than needed but its not good to use lower amps. (lower than 500ma) Lower amps will kill chargers quick. If usb is 500ma then these phones must be fine with variable amps (within its limits) I dont know what the variable numbers are but say its 500ma min, 2A max.. using a 3A charger or a 5A charger shouldnt make a difference in charge speed. It'll only draw 2A. (again hypothetical 2A here, 1.5 may be the max.) That being said... i wouldnt use a 2A as your primary or overnight charger though(unless you only sleep 3 hours ), no need for it..Since these phones dont have a replaceable battery your overnight charger should probably be 1A. Use a 2A during the day if you need a quick boost.
nugzo said:
Yeah it will degrade it quicker, but not significantly. I agree with the previous posts. Its fine to use a charger with higher amps than needed but its not good to use lower amps. (lower than 500ma) Lower amps will kill chargers quick. If usb is 500ma then these phones must be fine with variable amps (within its limits) I dont know what the variable numbers are but say its 500ma min, 2A max.. using a 3A charger or a 5A charger shouldnt make a difference in charge speed. It'll only draw 2A. (again hypothetical 2A here, 1.5 may be the max.) That being said... i wouldnt use a 2A as your primary or overnight charger though(unless you only sleep 3 hours ), no need for it..Since these phones dont have a replaceable battery your overnight charger should probably be 1A. Use a 2A during the day if you need a quick boost.
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I used a Samsung 0.7A OEM charger for a while for my previous phones and always thought that the power is capped by the output of the adapter. If it's rated 0.7A the adapter can output up to what it was rated for; That is wrong on that assumption. Using Current Widget app also appear to support this as well as it was drawing on my S3, 0.999 mA when this adapter as in. I have switched to the 1A adapter because of that; the read outs using the app still shows up as 0.999 mA.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=40630411#post40630411
If using a higher one is no good like 2A, I guess we would be able to see what Current Widget saids as well. Supposedly the phone pulls what it needs to my understanding.
the_scotsman said:
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
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I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
banksc said:
I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
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here's a source. HTC engineers decided to include the charger they did.
bob13bob said:
here's a source. HTC engineers decided to include the charger they did.
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Wow, aren't you a helpful one. There is much more to the H/W selection than what the charging circuit is capable of... Chargers don't "force" a current on the battery. The charging circuit draws what it needs from a charger, assuming it can supply what is drawn. A well designed charging circuit will draw no more than what the battery is capable of without damage. The only factor is heat, which should be accounted for at a nominal level. If heat was't properly accounted for, or they short changed the charging circuit (like the charger) there could be an issue long term.
As an application side note, I had a 2 or 2.1A charger on my Atrix 4G for the 2+ years I owned it and still on the original battery that will last me an 18hr day. You don't do anyone favors talking about stuff you don't know anything about.
banksc said:
Wow, aren't you a helpful one. There is much more to the H/W selection than what the charging circuit is capable of... Chargers don't "force" a current on the battery. The charging circuit draws what it needs from a charger, assuming it can supply what is drawn. A well designed charging circuit will draw no more than what the battery is capable of without damage. The only factor is heat, which should be accounted for at a nominal level. If heat was't properly accounted for, or they short changed the charging circuit (like the charger) there could be an issue long term.
As an application side note, I had a 2 or 2.1A charger on my Atrix 4G for the 2+ years I owned it and still on the original battery that will last me an 18hr day. You don't do anyone favors talking about stuff you don't know anything about.
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It's already documented that other chargers charge the phone faster. HTC included a slow charger for a reason. You don't know more about battery technology then they do. Fast chargers are like $5 for us on amazon. htc can buy them for a $1. There reason is not cost. Why do you think HTC inclduded the charger they did.
There is no perfect battery with unlimited recharge cycles no matter how perfectly designed. Fast charging won't cause you device to explode, but it will accelerate the regular degradation process.
Htc knew people would complain about slow charging, so they allow other chargers to charge the battery faster on case by case, even if it means degradation (slight to moderate) of the battery over time.
You read more about fast charging vs slow charging in the battery geek forums.
banksc said:
I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
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It comes from my own knowledge and experience. These are facts. If you choose not to believe them that's fine. And yes, I mentioned heat if you look back. And no, these are not properly designed systems.
The HTC One definitely takes a while to charge. What’s interesting however is that the charge curve gets the One to 85–90 percent under the normal 3 or so hours, it’s that last ten percent that takes forever. I also have confirmed that Qualcomm’s Quick Charge is not being used on the HTC One, for whatever reason, possibly to maximize compatibility with the portable USB battery chargers that are now proliferating. The PMIC is there, it just isn’t enabled. My guess would be that HTC wants to prioritize battery longevity and minimize any even potential extra wear since the battery on the One is sealed inside.
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source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6747/htc-one-review/3
told ya =)
Related
Hi all
Is there a definite answer to how you should charge your battery? Is it better to charge it before it gets to 40% like I have read or does it not really matter?
Also does charging it overnight do any damage?
Thanks all
Chris
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
The problem with battery care is that it has been tainted with old information that no longer applies to modern batteries.
The charging and discharging of the battery is tightly controlled by an IC to maximise life regardless of how you use it. All you need to be concerned with is making sure it doesn't sit fully discharged or fully charged for long periods (this is why when you first unbox a device it has about half charge)
Doesn't matter... just charge it when u think it s need to be charged...
High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).
Put it this way:
You will have moved on from this device long before you would notice any battery problems caused by "bump charging", charging overnight, or any other normal charging behavior.
Check the Battery University for details about charging Lithium-ion polymer.
tni.andro said:
High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).
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Gulp none of that made sense
chrisnewton said:
Gulp none of that made sense
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Then you need not worry about it. As I said, the battery is controlled by a fairly sophisticated IC, just charge it whenever you need to.
these batteries love refridgerators. you charge it when it comes to about 20-25%. I'm not compelling anyone, it's just that I've had this type of cycle since three years on my faithful ol' HTC Desire. Now its all burned, but I did have something to compare it with. My czn also got an htc desire a couple of days after i got it, and he is charge-freak. He charges his phone in his home, car, uni, bank, everywhere he can get his hands on a socket. The result: he's run down 4 batteries, and is on the brink of a 5th one. while I had only one throughout my three-year life cycle of my Desire.
So, try not to overheat your battery. Don't use it when charging. Charge it before you sleep at night, and let it rest for overnight. This overnight rest boosts battery life, and your charge will last almost 2 days. this is my personal experience speaking, and with the multitude of custom OC UV kernels out there, you might wanna go Chuck Norris with your battery.
Generally the most common way people damage the batteries is just by heat. Other charging ideals aren't really all that important in the grand scheme of things. The phone and chargers are smart enough to handle the other aspects.
Heat's a problem because the act of charging actually creates heat. So while you think it may not be too hot when it's charging in the mid-day sun in your car, it will be when it warms up from charging. It'll get so hot, in fact, that it may even refuse to charge, although you see this happen more on phones than tablets.
Also, don't leave your tablet dead for a month. That's bad. I don't think anyone does this, though, because what's the point of having a tablet if you leave it dead for a month?
Hello
I have a official nexus charger with ratings 2.0 A. My Phone was charging a bit slow so I tried different chargers with Nexus/phones to check the mA ratings with this application.
Current Widget : Battery Monitor
I am getting about 1000 mA from Nexus charger of 2 A while 750-770 mA from my phone charger which is 0.850 A.
Do you think I have a problem with my Nexus charger ?
Can anyone use the widget (drag from widgets to home while charging and set update interval at 1s) and share results what are you getting ?
I would be very thankful!
Update : My new nexus charger has 1.35 and gives 1.1A while my phone charger of .850 A gives 750mA.
Nexus 7 2012 gives 1.7-2.0 A
Hnk1 said:
Hello
I have a official nexus charger with ratings 2.0 A. My Phone was charging a bit slow so I tried different chargers with Nexus/phones to check the mA ratings with this application.
Current Widget : Battery Monitor
I am getting about 1000 mA from Nexus charger of 2 A while 750-770 mA from my phone charger which is 0.850 A.
Do you think I have a problem with my Nexus charger ?
Can anyone use the widget (drag from widgets to home while charging and set update interval at 1s) and share results what are you getting ?
I would be very thankful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try your experiment with a dedicated charging cable?
If I understand the issue correctly, using a sync cable for charging redirects some of the charging current for other purposes.
douger1957 said:
Did you try your experiment with a dedicated charging cable?
If I understand the issue correctly, using a sync cable for charging redirects some of the charging current for other purposes.
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No, I havenot. Just the official Nexus cables and Xperia Cable. Xperia has built in fast charging as far as I know
Hnk1 said:
No, I havenot. Just the official Nexus cables and Xperia Cable. Xperia has built in fast charging as far as I know
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What those cords do is short pins 2 and 3 together allowing your tablet to command more current which will charge the battery faster if you have a charging brick with more Watts (power.) Bricks like the Asus and Amazon fast chargers for instance. More Watts means more current can be supplied at the same voltage. (P=I*V)
That said, you don't want to heat that battery to much. 700mA - 800mA is a great charge. I charge my tablet in 4 hours or less with that. You can also open your brick and short the pins but the cord is cheap enough.
Sent from my Nexus 7 Flo running CM 11 4.4.2 with ElementalX Kernel using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
LinearEquation said:
What those cords do is short pins 2 and 3 together allowing your tablet to command more current which will charge the battery faster if you have a charging brick with more Watts (power.) Bricks like the Asus and Amazon fast chargers for instance. More Watts means more current can be supplied at the same voltage. (P=I*V)
That said, you don't want to heat that battery to much. 700mA - 800mA is a great charge. I charge my tablet in 4 hours or less with that. You can also open your brick and short the pins but the cord is cheap enough.
Sent from my Nexus 7 Flo running CM 11 4.4.2 with ElementalX Kernel using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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But try to charge N7 in car while using GPS with 700mA-800mA car adapter. You will get discharging, not charging, so you must use 2000mA. I recommend to use 2.1A for car(I am traveling a lot and never got disappointed), and normal 2.0 for AC charging.(5.0V)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
milleringer said:
But try to charge N7 in car while using GPS with 700mA-800mA car adapter. You will get discharging, not charging, so you must use 2000mA. I recommend to use 2.1A for car(I am traveling a lot and never got disappointed), and normal 2.0 for AC charging.(5.0V)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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The OP did not specify with GPS in the car. But for that I use this in the car while storm chasing http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088U4YAG/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 20 Watt 4.2 Amp. I use GPS all the time and the Asus and Amazon bricks charge just fine while using GPS.
Still the tablet has to command the Amps it wants. This is decided in part by the Watts in the charging adaptor/brick. You can have a power supply with all the current capabilities in the world and it won't mean a thing without Power, Voltage and demand for Amps from said tablet/phone.
Sent from my Nexus 7 Flo running CM 11 4.4.2 with ElementalX Kernel using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
LinearEquation said:
What those cords do is short pins 2 and 3 together allowing your tablet to command more current which will charge the battery faster if you have a charging brick with more Watts (power.) Bricks like the Asus and Amazon fast chargers for instance. More Watts means more current can be supplied at the same voltage. (P=I*V)
That said, you don't want to heat that battery to much. 700mA - 800mA is a great charge. I charge my tablet in 4 hours or less with that. You can also open your brick and short the pins but the cord is cheap enough.
Sent from my Nexus 7 Flo running CM 11 4.4.2 with ElementalX Kernel using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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I don't believe that's possible. It's my understanding that charging circuits are "smart," in that they'll "take" a voltage and current that tends to maximize battery life and endurance, with thermal limiting to guard against overheating. I think the profile is for the current and voltage to taper off a bit as the battery reaches full charge. Some devices do this better than others, but that's the basic principle.
The charger itself is regulated. The regulator maintains a set voltage, in this case 5.0 VDC. As the device's power requirements increase, the decrease in voltage at the regulator allows an increase in current to maintain the set voltage. Once the device's draw reaches the capacity of the charger, the battery takes over, because the charger can no longer maintain the required voltage. In other words, a 2 amp charger isn't constantly shooting 2 amps to the device unless the device is demanding that much current.
On the subject of chargers, we're not talking about laboratory grade here. Your 2 amp charger may or may not be able to actually produce 2 amps, much as the actual output voltage may not be exactly five volts. It's also important to note in the discussion that device batteries aren't rated at five volts, but something less. 4.5-4.7 is a common range.
Hnk1 said:
Hello
I have a official nexus charger with ratings 2.0 A. My Phone was charging a bit slow so I tried different chargers with Nexus/phones to check the mA ratings with this application.
Current Widget : Battery Monitor
I am getting about 1000 mA from Nexus charger of 2 A while 750-770 mA from my phone charger which is 0.850 A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure your Nexus charger is 2.0A? I think the 2012 charger was rated for 2A out, but my Nex7 (2013) charger lists 1.35A output on its nameplate.
Either way, could be that the 2013 Nex7 is configured not to draw a lot of current, generally this is for thermal management.
LinearEquation said:
0
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milleringer said:
1
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douger1957 said:
2
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arkolbus said:
Are you sure your Nexus charger is 2.0A? I think the 2012 charger was rated for 2A out, but my Nex7 (2013) charger lists 1.35A output on its nameplate.
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First of all,I didn't realise I was using new nexus charger (1.35A) and I thought it was the old charger (2.1A). So that cleared the doubts if my chargers were faulty.
I did few tests, asked my dad who is an Electrical Engineer and came to the following conclusions.
When I'm charging my phone/tablet ; say I'm using 1A, the power given would be around 850-900mA . The power be always less than rated.
If I'm using my phone and charging with same 1A charger, and the power used by my phone is 500mA, I would only see 350-400mA power given to battery as net because the power given would be subtracted from power being used.
Using a 2A charger would charge the battery more quicker, about 2x but it would reduce the life span of battery as well and may damage the device.
As more battery is being charged, more amounts of electrons would be present inside battery so the flow of current would start to decrease slowly . (So it would take more time to charge in the end.)
If charge power is less than usage of device, you would see discharge of device. In this case using a high power charger would charge the device but still it would damage the battery.
Basically, there is a safety factor of a device/battery. So if more current flows into it, lets say it can withstand 1.2 A and came with 1A charger. Using 1.3A or higher would damage the device/battery nonetheless.
I hope this helps and thank you for all your opinions and suggestions
Hnk1 said:
First of all,I didn't realise I was using new nexus charger (1.35A) and I thought it was the old charger (2.1A). So that cleared the doubts if my chargers were faulty.
Using a 2A charger would charge the battery more quicker, about 2x but it would reduce the life span of battery as well and may damage the device.
As more battery is being charged, more amounts of electrons would be present inside battery so the flow of current would start to decrease slowly . (So it would take more time to charge in the end.)
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Click to collapse
Glad we got to the root of your issue.
There are a couple of misconceptions though:
All things being equal, you are correct that charging at higher current will produce more heat and will generally reduce battery lifespan. It is not likely that you will damage the device by using a higher-capacity charger (unless it is some cheap knock-off charger, but those are dangerous regardless of capacity). The charger is not "constant current", meaning it does not always supply the full current, only what the device requests. Some of the supply current gets used to power the device, and some goes to the charging circuit.
The charging circuit limits the amount of current going to the battery based on how full the battery is (fast charge up to a certain charge % or cell voltage, then slow charge to ~100%), the battery temperature (if temperature is too high, reduce charge rate), and some maximum current (depending on the charge circuitry, battery ratings, design decisions, etc). edit: If you use a (quality) 2A charger, one of two things will happen: either your device will charge faster and you may reduce your battery lifespan, or the charging circuit will still limit the current to some lower limit (like 1.35A), and nothing will change. You are not really at any risk of causing device failure.
Also, there are not "more electrons" in the battery. The number of electrons stays the same, since current must flow in a loop. What changes is the energy state of those electrons. When slow-charging (constant voltage charging), as the battery is charged its voltage rises towards the constant charging voltage. The difference between the charging voltage and the battery voltage drives the amount of current, so as that difference gets smaller the amount of current decreases towards zero per ohm's law.
Hnk1 said:
First of all,I didn't realise I was using new nexus charger (1.35A) and I thought it was the old charger (2.1A). So that cleared the doubts if my chargers were faulty.
I did few tests, asked my dad who is an Electrical Engineer and came to the following conclusions.
When I'm charging my phone/tablet ; say I'm using 1A, the power given would be around 850-900mA . The power be always less than rated.
If I'm using my phone and charging with same 1A charger, and the power used by my phone is 500mA, I would only see 350-400mA power given to battery as net because the power given would be subtracted from power being used.
Using a 2A charger would charge the battery more quicker, about 2x but it would reduce the life span of battery as well and may damage the device.
As more battery is being charged, more amounts of electrons would be present inside battery so the flow of current would start to decrease slowly . (So it would take more time to charge in the end.)
If charge power is less than usage of device, you would see discharge of device. In this case using a high power charger would charge the device but still it would damage the battery.
Basically, there is a safety factor of a device/battery. So if more current flows into it, lets say it can withstand 1.2 A and came with 1A charger. Using 1.3A or higher would damage the device/battery nonetheless.
I hope this helps and thank you for all your opinions and suggestions
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I think that would be true... if there weren't a charging profile built into the unit. That profile has the most "juice" going to the battery below a certain charge state. It tapers off as the battery reaches the fully charged state. On some newer devices the batteries contain electronics that help things along. There is certainly thermal limits built in, and at any rate, on higher quality devices at least, only so much current is used for charging. It'll charge at whatever current level the manufacturer has designed and no more, even if more current is available.
And you're correct in that while the device is charging, some current is used for charging while surplus current, if available goes to the running device. Once the device's battery reaches a full charge, the full charger current is available to run the device. If the charger is capable of providing the current needed to serve the device's needs, life is good. Otherwise, the cycle begins again.
Generally speaking, so long as you're not flogging your device by taxing the CPU and or GPU, a 2 amp charger should be sufficient to run say, a music program and a nav program using the GPS. Plug an OTG cable in and start hanging peripherals off of the dongle and all bets are off.
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
513263337 said:
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
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You made my night... Slower charger kills battery not fast charging.. fast charge save battery to be honest. And you dont have to be worry since the batteries now are LI-lon . Go get info in google about the batteries . All i can say you got infos wrong.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Agree with previous post. But if it makes you feel better, just don't use a dash charger...
Very simple.
lummujaj said:
You made my night... Slower charger kills battery not fast charging.. fast charge save battery to be honest. And you dont have to be worry since the batteries now are LI-lon . Go get info in google about the batteries . All i can say you got infos wrong.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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OK. I didn't know.
I was speaking from my past experience with Samsung Galaxy Note 4. I bought couple of original Samsung batteries and rotate them throughout daily usage. I noticed a significant difference in battery life comparing the ones that I used fast charge on vs the ones I didn't. After that I stick to NOT using fast charge.
Of course, that's nothing scientific. And Samsung uses a different fast charge mechanism (higher voltage) than OnePlus (higher current), so there could be difference there too.
Because Dash Charge seems to be re-labeled Vooc charging from OPPO, I can tell you, that the last two years with charging minimum one times every day, there is no bad effect on the battery (still the first one).
Sent from my Find7 using XDA-Developers mobile app
513263337 said:
OK. I didn't know.
I was speaking from my past experience with Samsung Galaxy Note 4. I bought couple of original Samsung batteries and rotate them throughout daily usage. I noticed a significant difference in battery life comparing the ones that I used fast charge on vs the ones I didn't. After that I stick to NOT using fast charge.
Of course, that's nothing scientific. And Samsung uses a different fast charge mechanism (higher voltage) than OnePlus (higher current), so there could be difference there too.
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Samsung devices are notorious for killing batteries and its more likely hardware than it is the battery itself, u will be fine
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
513263337 said:
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
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Click to collapse
I use Samsung 1.5 Amp charger and keep my battery between 40% to 80%
I think these are best for long term usage.
repsol89 said:
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
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I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
iam_adarsh said:
I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
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Well, it was my first thought, but everyone in this topic is telling me that OP works different than Samsung!
iam_adarsh said:
I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
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that's the problem of the charger or the phone itself. thecharger is designed not to charge when the battery is full. What I want to say is you experienced an accident and sorry for you.
The most serious threat to the battery is high temperature. OnePlus 3 reduce the charging heat by its dash charge. The dash charge pushes low voltage directly to the phone, which mitigates the heating problem by pushing high electric current and making the voltage transition process in dash charger. Most of other phones still use high voltage because they fail to create high current. recalling the physics in high school, the power is current multiplied by voltage and energy equals to power multiplied by time. than you would understand the powerful feature of dash charge
dlhxr said:
that's the problem of the charger or the phone itself. thecharger is designed not to charge when the battery is full. What I want to say is you experienced an accident and sorry for you.
The most serious threat to the battery is high temperature. OnePlus 3 reduce the charging heat by its dash charge. The dash charge pushes low voltage directly to the phone, which mitigates the heating problem by pushing high electric current and making the voltage transition process in dash charger. Most of other phones still use high voltage because they fail to create high current. recalling the physics in high school, the power is current multiplied by voltage and energy equals to power multiplied by time. than you would understand the powerful feature of dash charge
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The power is current multiplied by voltage so what's the difference between high current mutiplied by low voltage versus low current multiplied by high voltage ?
2V x A = V x 2A
lapocompris said:
The power is current multiplied by voltage so what's the difference between high current mutiplied by low voltage versus low current multiplied by high voltage ?
2V x A = V x 2A
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qc3.0 uses low current and high voltage. Dash uses high current and low voltage. As a result, they have similar power and both charge quickly. However, the heating problem is more serious for qc 3.0. The difference of the battery voltage and charger voltage is the leading factor that determines the transition efficiency. The bigger the difference is, the more heat charging process generates.
So~ you could look up for qc3.0. for mi 5, it has three adaptive mode: 5V2.5A、9V2A、12V1.5A. for dash, we have 5V4A
repsol89 said:
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
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Click to collapse
There is no problem with leaving your phone on the charger. I do this with every phone since years.
If people experience something bad with it, their phone or battery are broken. The current tech just keeps the battery at full capacity once it's full. Never had any problem.
So many "opinions" but mostly incorrect. The answer to the OPs question is that you don't have to worry about quick charge destroying your battery. It will not have significant impact on your battery capacity. I would have been more worried about breaking the usb type-c port(see point 2 below). All things considered, after 2-3 years you will probably buy a new phone anyway and also you can always buy a replacement battery cheap. But you can simply use a normal charger which delivers <3A with 5V so you don't have to worry about anything.
1- Slow charge does not damage lithium-ion chemistry batteries. You can read about lithium-ion charging here. But neither fast charge will damage lithium-ion as long as the battery temperature is not extremely high. Also temperature at different charge stages effect the capacity decrease (source) But you will be fine as long as the battery temperature is less than 45C. The charging IC should stop the charging process if it exceeds it anyway.
2- Qualcomm's quick charge is much better than voop/dash charge from an engineering standpoint. This is why also USB organization's power delivery (PD) standard uses similar scheme. The problem is the cable and the connector. The maximum allowed current at 5V is 3A with usb type-c connector (source). If you provide more current, you need to use a thicker cable(dash/vooc cables). But you can't change the connector, and it may damage your connector in the long run to use 3+A currents to charge. Because there is a contact resistance (R) and the power lost in the connector is square of current (I) times R. Meaning R*I^2, it will wear off the connector faster. This is why some companies with some engineering skills opt in to use higher voltages instead of higher currents.
3- You can't push more current to lithium-ion battery than it accepts. The maximum current is voltage delta (between charging voltage and battery voltage) divided by internal resistance. This is why you can charge empty battery much faster. If you use an app like Ampere from play store, you can see the voltage of your battery before and after you plug in your charger. If you plug in a normal charger, you will see that it goes up a little bit. If you plug a quick charger it goes up to ~4.35V
4- Yes, there is conversion inefficiencies for quick charge inside the phone, and it will warm up the "phone" and battery only indirectly. The conversion IC are normally >90% efficient (source). This does not mean that your battery will be destroyed. It is perfectly fine to charge lithium-batteries with up to 45C temperatures (source).
4- If overnight charging killed your battery, your battery was faulty (or you had 3rd party battery?). The battery should be capable of holding 4.35v charge. You would need to store battery at 4.35V full charge for over 3 months to loose 20% capacity (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries). Having full charge few hours overnight won't destroy it unless your battery or device is faulty.
With all this information, I would rather opt in for USB-PD/Qualcomm Quick Charge solutions than VOOC/DASH solutions. I think eventually only USB-PD will remain and everybody will use it as a standard only.
I've had my Nexus 5x for a couple months now, I bought it through amazon refurbished. (My girlfriend has the same device, she bought hers brand new. Her's is the international model though) Here's a listing of the charging cables, and chargers that I have:
Anker Quick Charge 3.0 and USB Type-C 24W USB Wall Charger http://amzn.to/2mitz3n
Anker A to C 6ft cable http://amzn.to/2lbw2HW
Anker 24W Dual Port Charger http://amzn.to/2mx16Tt
(I bought the a to c cable to be able to connect to pcs or whatever, and the charger i had for my Nexus 5 and other micro usb devices.
Standard Google Charger https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_18w_power_adapter
Obviously the middle item there doesn't charge at full speed, it isn't intended to. But my charge rate using any of those devices is still over all over the place within each of those items specifications. So it isn't likely that is a cable or charger issue which is normally the issue when someone has charging rate problems. yes i know the charging rate slows down as it reaches higher percentages to prevent over charging and other types of battery damage.
My phone can be down to 20% battery when I plug it in and it could start charging at 110mA or 2000mA+. Whatever rate it is though, it isn't going to stay that way for very long. If it starts low, then it might work its way up into the 700-900s slowly or to around 1000mA. If it starts up high 2000mA it'll likely start working its way down slowly into the 1000-1800mA range.
Sure charging at slower rates helps the battery to last longer, but when i have no control over this, and at times it discharges faster than it is even charging it is bad. I can actually deplete battery sometimes, if its charging while video chatting. Albeit very very very slowly, but still. The battery life and range seems to be very good aside from this charging issue. The connection port on the phone seems really quite solid as well and wiggling the cord doesn't seem to affect the charge rate as best as I can tell.
My girlfriends 5x charges in about half the time that mine does, or sometimes its even worse, i just have to pay attention to what it is doing when i plug it in. So my question is, is this a battery problem or is there something else going on with the phone? What is it that throttles the charge rate down as the battery % gets higher? Is there a chance this could be faulty and causing it to be all over the place like this? Any ideas about this would be very helpful thanks in advance.
Ps: I really do love the device, it works great, I have no issues with it beyond the charging rates that can be all over the place. I can go from 10% battery to 75% sometimes in half an hour or so. Then i get times where it takes well over an hour for that much.
(I use ampere to measure the charge rates)
Charge rate goes down with higher battery temperatures. Let the device cool down a bit before plugging in, also keep the screen off to allow it to charge at full speed.
The charge will also slows down as it fills up, the last 10% will take the longest.
bblzd said:
Charge rate goes down with higher battery temperatures. Let the device cool down a bit before plugging in, also keep the screen off to allow it to charge at full speed.
The charge will also slows down as it fills up, the last 10% will take the longest.
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I appreciate you taking the time to respond, since you are the only one thus far. But as I said I'm aware of the charging slowing down for those reasons, and I've got another device to compare to. It isn't the same, and the device isn't hot.
There is no problem with your battery. The phone is badly designed. Unfinished SoC combined with a small battery and a big screen. Your money is better spent on something else.
Sinistersky said:
There is no problem with your battery. The phone is badly designed. Unfinished SoC combined with a small battery and a big screen. Your money is better spent on something else.
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He's not talking about battery life. He's talking about charging times.
Personally, no issues with charging here. Always goes 15% to ~90% in 60 minutes with the stock charger.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
EeZeEpEe said:
He's not talking about battery life. He's talking about charging times.
Personally, no issues with charging here. Always goes 15% to ~90% in 60 minutes with the stock charger.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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"...So my question is, is this a battery problem or is there something else going on with the phone?"
Also, I have no problems charging it either.
Sinistersky said:
"...So my question is, is this a battery problem or is there something else going on with the phone?"
Also, I have no problems charging it either.
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Yet you talked about unfinished SoC and small battery. ? If anything, small battery would be charging faster.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Sinistersky said:
"...So my question is, is this a battery problem or is there something else going on with the phone?"
Also, I have no problems charging it either.
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I don't have any issues with my battery discharge rate. For what it is, and what I use if for I'm happy with it. And from what I've read about the usages from others I think I have no issues there compared to others. I'm just referring to the charging rates, the way it charges
EeZeEpEe said:
Yet you talked about unfinished SoC and small battery. ? If anything, small battery would be charging faster.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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But due to an unfinished and rushed SoC, it doesn't charge faster. The charge rate of this device is limited to 40% of it's intended charge rate.
Sinistersky said:
Your money is better spent on something else.
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Fairly pointless comment considering I've got one already, it isn't me asking if I should buy one. Point taken though that you aren't happy with the device
ideaman924 said:
He says he already owns the device. No point in telling him how poor his purchase decision was. And it wasn't that poor of a decision considering how good it is. It stands up fairly well to my abuse and the small screen is OK to grip.
OK, a serious question:
1. Charging speed is affected by Charger (the thing that plugs into the wall), the Cable (how long or thick it is), and the Battery (how hot, how full it is). This is the basic, moving on.
2. Sometimes the C port is buggy and doesn't correctly detect the maximum amount that a cable+charger combo supports. Download Ampere or some other current measuring tool like GSam (although I never bother with GSam, Ampere is awesome), and make sure the max amperage is 3000 mAh. Anything lower than that means you have a low-powered charger, a less-than-optimal cable, or a hot or near-full battery. I recommend plugging it in at around 50% to make sure the near-full charge speed drop doesn't affect anything during your tests.
3. If that doesn't work, replace the battery. Final line advice.
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He's already using Ampere to measure and has 3 chargers to compare with.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Hello guys,
To offert at my battery the best treatment I'm looking for a lower amperage wall charger for my Pixel 2XL.
Between 1 and 1.5 Amp it will be excellent. I read some interesting suties about battery life and how manage it and fast charge is part of that.
Thank you all anf have good evening.
I am sure it will charge on either one, but how fast who knows? If you are rooted and have Magisk, download the ACC module and you can control your charging that way instead.
Le_Combattant said:
Hello guys,
To offert at my battery the best treatment I'm looking for a lower amperage wall charger for my Pixel 2XL.
Between 1 and 1.5 Amp it will be excellent. I read some interesting suties about battery life and how manage it and fast charge is part of that.
Thank you all anf have good evening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Older USB chargers are mostly slow 1A chargers, like the cube Apple chargers
Droid_Nut said:
I am sure it will charge on either one, but how fast who knows? If you are rooted and have Magisk, download the ACC module and you can control your charging that way instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not rooted and I don't think I gonna it
Le_Combattant said:
Hello guys,
To offert at my battery the best treatment I'm looking for a lower amperage wall charger for my Pixel 2XL.
Between 1 and 1.5 Amp it will be excellent. I read some interesting suties about battery life and how manage it and fast charge is part of that.
Thank you all anf have good evening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am an electrical engineer, and have some knowledge about how Li batteries function.
I have always wondered this, I always see people mentioning that slower charging is better for the longevity of Li-ion batteries. There is always a trade-off here. Slower charging also means the battery takes much longer to charge, and the battery stays hotter for longer period of time, which should affect it's lifetime. Fast charging also does the same thing, but the temperature is much hotter but is exposed for shorter period of time.
Now these is merely a speculation on my part, I don't have any theoretical or experimental evidence to back this up - I think regular 5V 2A charging is a balance between those two scenarios.
Also, I recall that the peak charging current is limited in P2XL, so using the stock charger shouldn't harm that much either.
Pixel 2XL is my first smartphone who do not Come hot when it charge so...
But I know that high temperature are not the best things for battery in general.
And about the level of charge ? Some people said they stop at 80% to manage battery
suhridkhan said:
I am an electrical engineer, and have some knowledge about how Li batteries function.
I have always wondered this, I always see people mentioning that slower charging is better for the longevity of Li-ion batteries. There is always a trade-off here. Slower charging also means the battery takes much longer to charge, and the battery stays hotter for longer period of time, which should affect it's lifetime. Fast charging also does the same thing, but the temperature is much hotter but is exposed for shorter period of time.
Now these is merely a speculation on my part, I don't have any theoretical or experimental evidence to back this up - I think regular 5V 2A charging is a balance between those two scenarios.
Also, I recall that the peak charging current is limited in P2XL, so using the stock charger shouldn't harm that much either.
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Click to collapse
I use a 5 watts charger and the phone stay completely cold during the charge process.
Also there was a recent 2017 scientific paper that tested what degraded the battery. It's a really interesting read with many tested model.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...e-model-under-different-charging-stresses.pdf
Number 1 cause is high battery voltage at the end, second one is battery charging speed. Any speed faster than 1c will degrade the battery much faster.
This is why i charge at 5w plus stop charging at 80% (unless i know I'll need 100% that day, where i fully charge, but for my usage 80% is more than enough for the usual day).
von_block said:
I use a 5 watts charger and the phone stay completely cold during the charge process.
Also there was a recent 2017 scientific paper that tested what degraded the battery. It's a really interesting read with many tested model.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...e-model-under-different-charging-stresses.pdf
Number 1 cause is high battery voltage at the end, second one is battery charging speed. Any speed faster than 1c will degrade the battery much faster.
This is why i charge at 5w plus stop charging at 80% (unless i know I'll need 100% that day, where i fully charge, but for my usage 80% is more than enough for the usual day).
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I charge my phone every 48h and when it is full I unplug it from wall charger. And I charge it from 20-25% (some time I go lower because of my usage)
It's your famous amazon wall charger?
Le_Combattant said:
I charge my phone every 48h and when it is full I unplug it from wall charger. And I charge it from 20-25% (some time I go lower because of my usage)
It's your famous amazon wall charger?
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Click to collapse
I download AccuBattery and charge my phone from 25% to 80% max. The app detect directly the stock capacity of my battery (3520mAh) but after my charge, the new capacity estimated is 2982%. Is the first value is reliable or I have to do some other charges?
You have to wait for about 10 cycles. It says in the application something like that.