Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/user/windowsphone
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use some marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Aerik said:
Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use your marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
And really, continually bringing up the lack of google applications on WP7 is pointless, why not ask google why they block WP7 users from their services? MS just released Hotmail for android, why isnt google as considerate of their services USERS and provide their services to all smartphone platforms, rather than try and punish users of WP7? Gits.
ammarmalik said:
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I so would've bought windows after seeing this advertisement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sforhbLiwLA&feature=related
And let's be frank everyone else would after seeing Ballmer's performance. More iconic than developers developers DEVELOPERS
efjay said:
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Local scout, only works as advertised in the US.
You also have to change all your settings to US on your phone in order to perform bing map searches outside of NA and UK. Pretty user friendly.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xbox Live functionality is not a 'critical' feature I was referring to. I'm talking about things like transit directions, worldwide map search support, audio file support, email inbox search, etc.
Also, re: "(when the app is released)" - my understanding is people don't buy phones based on what apps it may have 6-12 months from now.
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
madmaximillian said:
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Improving its service availability in the world is already their best marketing stratergy.
henry084 said:
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Madmaxmillian, I didn't know that. Thanks.
No problem
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
madmaximillian said:
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better maps is already better than maps with limited information, now Bing maps is still rather empty in East Asia region. (They have just fixed the Japan ones recently.) I hope they can combine those two together to form a better one.
For me, like Mango which can filter your contact lists is already fine as far as I can filter out the phone list for use, since a smartphone is still a phone. I have my facebook acc, e-mail acc, and dial lists. I don't want to search things in a mixed pool as it is inefficient, also I don't want to reconstruct the whole list as the work is enormous. (Just imagine when you have 500 entries in your Facebook account, 200 entries in your e-mail/MSN account and 150 entries in your phone book, then you will know how painful it can be.)
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------
Wyn6 said:
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell, without the backup of such services can be fatal to a smartphone, esp. when people are relying on maps and search engines nowadays. iOS and Android can success because of this. MS would fail if they are still limiting their services in US, and WP7 would be just an American pride, like the sports car Corvette.
I think what Microsoft really should rely on is the features that are directly built in Windows Phone. Sure, Android and iOS can do a lot, most definitely still more than WP7 can do. But they heavily depend on apps. You need apps for every single **** you wanna do with these devices. The out of the box experience is pretty low in my opinion. That's where WP7 makes the difference. And that's what Microsoft should show people.
I'm a new Note 4 user, and generally like the phone. Like anything complex, though, there are a handful of things that I'd prefer to be different. I'll spare everyone from my litany of pet peeves, and just get to the question:
QUESTION: What is the best way to send feedback to Samsung regarding new features / fixes / etc. for the Note 4?
I went to their web site and found various technical/customer support options, but I'm looking for something more focused for enhancement requests. TIA.
I wouldn't waste the time, they are to concerned with jamming their sub par software and applications into their devices just to have their branding and signature on everything you see or interact with to concern them selves with anyone's logical or rational suggestions. Just look how Samsung operates in total perspective, they make TVs and monitors, that's their bread and butter, its where the majority of their most profitable pattens reside. To put this into the most transparent terms possible, they sell more TVs each year than there are phone subscribers with access to their devices in the entire global cellular phone market.
However for some reason to prove to them selves or whoever it is they think they are impressing or competing with, they chose to build garbage on top of googles already 1st class, free operating system and interface, they waste millions of dollars doing so and for some odd reason continue to think that they will one day create a better user experience than Google the company whos bread and butter is development and let's not forgot the company who designs every operating system for every phone they sell.
Until Samsung learns to stop wanting so much counterproductive attention on their products and realizes they would make more money hand over fist buy just selling their products as is with free standard android OS, they will continue to just shovel crap onto their mechanically awesome products rendering them to nothing but bright HD displays running ads that say how stupid they are.
In my personal opinion Samsung just looks stupid next to every other electronics company. And Google needs to grow a pair and say no android OS if you modify a single thing on it. I can't be the only person who sees this flawed business model am I? When's the last time you used an HP, Dell, or Gateway computer that had System modifications of any kind on Windows? You can go out on the limb and applaud HTC for their modifications because they are cell phone company that's all they do, but for Samsung a company that specializes in displays and makes no mobile hardware of their own worth noting, they somehow get the green light on damaging Android OS with their cut rate software, and continue to make the end user of their products disappointed. The worlds gone mad.
Whoa!
:laugh:
I can't say I entirely agree nor disagree with the long post above. I don't hate Samsung, nor am a fanboy of theirs. I just needed a large phone with a stylus, and my previous phone, while large and I LOVED it, didn't have a stylus which was highly needed. All I'm going to say is this:
Most of the time, a large corporation who sells many different devices within a market (ie, phones) wouldn't care about a single consumer's opinion. You are but a single-celled organization to them. They know you're there, but you aren't big enough to see as an individual. In addition, what changes you'd like to see or need- or whatever- most likely won't be what these corporations think their consumer market wants and will buy.
So in other words, if you send them feedback, all you'll get in response is a prewritten thank you letter saying (in summary), "Thanks, we appreciate the feedback and will keep it mind," (but wont).
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 (sm-910a) using Tapatalk
So, it sounds like Samsung doesn't have an email address, web form, forum, etc. for enhancement requests?
On the parallel topic of big evil companies, and with respect to the folks who have offered their opinions on that subject so far, my experience has been quite the opposite - I find that most successful companies do care what their users think about their products. I work in the software industry, and the products I use most on a day-to-day basis invariably offer some sort of channel for sending feedback to the developer. Every app on the Google Play store has a "Send email" link at the bottom of it's page - in addition to many companies monitoring and responding to written feedback in the ratings section. QuickBooks has a "Send Feedback Online" option under the help menu - and even offers different options for sending comments onenhancements, bugs, and doc. A large software company that I used to work for recently implemented a suggestions forum where users can vote on enhancements, actively prioritizes work on new releases based on this feedback, and publicizes the heck out of the results in conferences, doc, and webinars. Every year I see literally thousands of people give standing ovations at one of their conferences because the developer added better Excel integration, or trimmed two clicks from a common workflow. Perhaps the best example is Atlassian, whose products many in these forums no doubt use. They are laser-focused on the people who use their tools - developers - and have been extremely successful at growing into small and large companies alike by inspiring grass roots adoption.
The list goes on. From what I've seen, companies who listen to their users do well as a result.
That said, not every company is as open to feedback as the ones in the examples above. I've found it difficult to provide feedback to Microsoft, for instance, without being part of a beta program. That said, they have robust forums that are well-attended by their internal staff. I can't say for sure, but I have to assume that the most common squeaky wheels get at least I little grease in future releases.
I don't know Samsung very well, which is why I'm asking about feedback options. It would seem odd to me that they don't have some way for users to weigh in on their Android implementation. Collectively, we buy new phones too frequently and switch vendors too easily for them not to care what we think. I like my Samsung phone, but not because it's a Samsung - it just has the features that I want. They obviously do their research into what's likely to sell. I'm hoping that there's some channel where they're actively soliciting input for improvements.
Like spexwood said, I'm not going to waste my time sending a letter to the president of Samsung and get some generic form letter in return. I know that that doesn't work. I also don't expect that Samsung will care about my suggestions, per se, even if they do have some feedback form. But, I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses text messages because the [email protected]#$ing notification beep doesn't fire when a thread is already on the screen (for example), so if mine is one of 10K voices complaining of the same thing, it would behoove them to listen - or maybe next time I'll switch to that nice LG G3 that I almost bought instead of this Note 4.
Anyway, I'm still interested in practical options for sending OS-related feedback to Samsung. Otherwise, I can just rant about stuff xda-developers and hope that someone at Samsung is watching.
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
mcmannion said:
[Samsung] obviously do their research into what's likely to sell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
mcmannion said:
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost waited for the S6, then saw the final specs on it, yep not gonna happen no water Resistance no dust resistance and by the way the metal case most likely will have the same issue with scratches that the bezel on the note 4 has. not to mention an octocore 64bit processor that is hobbled at 32bit.
I still might go check it out once my local AT&T store gets them in stock. just to see
There are plenty of devices around, but we are lost with a simple task - how to get a device with steps, hr and sleep data accessed directly from a device?
In general we wish to find a device with a very simple developers' manual where there is a description how to get a specific data from a device using only a BT. So no additional apps need to be installed on Android, no cloud solutions sending data somewhere to USA, China and similar.
We tried:
1. Angel sensor wristband - they closed their business
2. Microsoft band 2 (they have their own app, but still..) - they abandoned the product
3. Pebble watch HR - you know the story
4. Mi band
Now we are w/o options and I really wonder:
1. Why every device maker provide their own application (usually with very low quality) which sends data to cloud? Is it:
1.1. because they analyze the data and sell it to some advertisers?
1.2. because they wish to establish Apple like - echo system? C'mon if Apple did it there is no proof that FitBit, Jawbone, Misfit or .. (put a name into it) will do it.
So my question is: is there any device with a small direct access description? We do not need an API, we just need a protocol description..
Why we need that - there are some regulations which forbid to send data somewhere w/o control (like seniorscare, eHealth, military). It is frustrated that we can support more than 100 sensors with out iotool.io smartphone IoT gateway, but no wearables
Any suggestion?
SenLab said:
We tried:
1. Angel sensor wristband - they closed their business
2. Microsoft band 2 (they have their own app, but still..) - they abandoned the product
3. Pebble watch HR - you know the story
4. Mi band
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the problem with Mi band and Pebble?
SenLab said:
Now we are w/o options and I really wonder:
1. Why every device maker provide their own application (usually with very low quality) which sends data to cloud? Is it:
1.1. because they analyze the data and sell it to some advertisers?
1.2. because they wish to establish Apple like - echo system? C'mon if Apple did it there is no proof that FitBit, Jawbone, Misfit or .. (put a name into it) will do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it's because a very small market. Microsoft has decided not to catch users with their bands - it shows us the value of the market for big boys.
chinesesmartwatch said:
What's the problem with Mi band and Pebble?
Pebble bankrupted. It is hard to get Pebble2 HR, no support; it is a new product, so we are not aware about possible firmware bugs etc.
Xiaomi has three wristbands - all three closed. It took us 3 weeks to support one of them . With good documentation the estimated time to make our iotool.io extension for specific sensor: a few hours.
I suppose it's because a very small market. Microsoft has decided not to catch users with their bands - it shows us the value of the market for big boys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, however there are hundreds of wristbands around from small manufacturers. Every wristband has its own application with rating on Google Play around 2/5. So it is possible to connect it to Android phone. But there is no documentation about comm. protocol. So wristband manufacturer made a bad application which is bad for business, but still don't wish to provide documentation. I think that is a bad decision (don't wish to use stronger words here )
SenLab said:
there are hundreds of wristbands around from small manufacturers. Every wristband has its own application with rating on Google Play around 2/5. So it is possible to connect it to Android phone. But there is no documentation about comm. protocol. So wristband manufacturer made a bad application which is bad for business, but still don't wish to provide documentation.
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Have you tried to contact manufacturers? It seems that another application for their wristband, which is delivered for free, should be interesting enough. But the problem is to find a proper person, who has some motivation for supporting such offers. Most chinese manufacturers are screened with relatively dumb marketing stuff and their internal bureaucracy is horrible. Aliexpress sellers sometime can provide some pieces of documentation, but it's in chinese and not complete. However, googletranslate can help to get some protocol details. Also it is useful to reverse engineer their applications, but it's very time consuming. Another problem here - how to chose a device without any idea about it's sensors quality and even about the presence of some sensors that often are just virtual things and only able to load some trash from internet.
But if you are a paid worker of iotool.io then may be it is possible to convince your boss to spend some money on a serious screening of at least some manufacturers. Some bracelets are very cheap (5$) and in case of presence of a good application the market share can be very big.
Thank you for your help. I'm a CEO of SenLab, maker od IoTool. And believe me, we invested a lot of resources into that. But, there is no real support, firmware change, models change and similar. It is not possible to support this. And, we do not wish to invest into every wristband, but to ask big players, what is in their mind? Some of applications from big and well known providers are rated around 2 on Google Play. No one wish to use them, but big players are stubborn and just follow their route.
SenLab said:
I'm a CEO of SenLab, maker od IoTool. And believe me, we invested a lot of resources into that. But, there is no real support, firmware change, models change and similar. It is not possible to support this.
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In my opinion if you have enough resources then finding a responsible manufacturer is absolutely possible. Of course, it wouldn't be a big company, but there could be a good and cheap product that requires just a better application. However, I don't know your business strategy and may be such approach is not for you.
SenLab said:
And, we do not wish to invest into every wristband, but to ask big players, what is in their mind? Some of applications from big and well known providers are rated around 2 on Google Play. No one wish to use them, but big players are stubborn and just follow their route.
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Big boys work as follows:
They look at the market, they see a successful company, they copy the company's strategy and don't care about anything else. If anybody want to convince big boys to do something then most probably they think the person wants a free lunch and just ignore him. So, you need some connections within the company or you need a well known name for them to listen to you. And it means just one thing - only small and medium sized companies can be targeted by you (if you haven't connections, of course). But you don't want to invest into every wristband, so, there's nobody left for you - big boys won't listen to you and you won't ask some little boys.
Also the logging strategy of iotool.io is not very convenient for many people. People mostly don't want just a logging of some data from some sensors. They want something more useful, like heart rate monitor or calories calculation. Sensor set is just a way to provide the final product - the really needed in real life. Good sensor set can provide better final product, but the task of deciphering of some useful conclusions from logged data is not for the majority of people. So, you need to connect the logged data with people's needs. And while there's no such connection your product will catch only the small market of enthusiast users.