Related
Hi all,
I'm just a junior member and have no autual authority in the XDA-Developers Community so I hope this is the right place to put this thread. Moderators, please move it if I've got that wrong. I've just read this thread in the Development and Hacking forum:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=425167
and it raised some concerns in my mind which could present some fairly serious threats to the nature of this forum (i.e. developers' willingness to get involved). Here's a copy of what I posted, entitled "We NEED to see the bigger picture":
OK, I have read through this thread fairly quickly and I have some observations and some suggestions to make. Let me say that I am more of a “user” than a developer but I have made a few very small contributions on XDA-Developers. Please check my stats if you want to. Let me also say that I always look at the “bigger picture” in these situations.
Unfortunately what has happened to A_C over S2U2 is a consequence of capitalism. Businesses exist for the purpose of making money and extending their business. It is not so much a matter of trust or character but that the very purpose of a business is to make money and nothing else. The situation we’ve been presented with does however raise some concerning issues.
There are technicalities and more technicalities which people will continue to use to make money out of products and items of value they did not produce themselves. I don’t think anything we can say to businesses will prevent them doing this. For all the arguments we can present, they will have others and there would be little we can do to stop them TRYING to use freely developed software in this way. Businesses will have more money than we have to promote “their” products, and as we’ve already seen, unless we have a pro-bono lawyer, they will have more money for to defend their business and sales through the law and search engine optimisation (which is a very big business by the way!).
The point I am trying to make is that while this may be an isolated incident right now, there’s nothing to stop this happening again and again. We may well have “lost” A_C despite all the genuine and heart felt encouragement directed towards him so it seems to me that if we want to protect what we have, an environment where developers feel free to develop software for themselves and “us” with our support, we need to do more. What can we do?
We do have two critical factors on our side:
1) Community
2) Technical Expertise
Community - A community has a much greater power to change it’s destiny than any one individual – as demonstrated by the unfortunate situation A_C finds himself in. If we all pull together, or even just those of us more committed to this community, we will be able to overcome much more than we currently realise.
Technical Expertise – As stated above, I am not a developer but I am convinced that there is more technical ability available to this community than many software businesses could pay for with their entire budget, or even turnover.
I believe we must make use of these two strengths or suffer the consequences.
My basic suggestion is that a working group is set up from developers who contribute to this community with the sole purpose of writing a code which can be inserted into any ROM or software which clearly states that the software/ROM has been developed free of charge, and that if the “customer” has paid for it then they should ask for a refund and contact XDA-Developers to report the licence violation and receive the full free version of the software. Once developed this code can then be made available, with instructions, to any new developers who start to submit work to the community so that they don’t fall foul of the same experience as A_C.
Additionally could this code be hard coded into the software/ROM so that unscrupulous software sales companies can’t take it out (I.E. not just a .gif or .jpg splash that can be changed or removed)?
As this is a forum, the next step would be for people to share their views on these suggestions and we’ll see what happens!
Best wishes to A_C – hope you’re not feeling too bad.
I’m going to post this in the general forum as a new thread if there’s not one there already.
andrew-in-woking
I hope that this thread will engender some constructive discussion and lead to a better community for all of us.
Best wishes,
andrew-in-woking
the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk. the classic example is Cubase audio software, where it is estimated that 50% of cpu power can be wasted in it constantly checking it's protection; and even this has been cracked by geniuses, though i think they have since 'retired' from the scene. anyway, i digress. with space at a premium with phones, getting into copy protection, nag screens, etc. is removing that space. plus from own experience and feedback from users, nag screens and reporting fraud options will get ignored. as 9 times out of 10 they have seeked the software out through unscrupulous sources. add to that, a developer has spent months streamlining their code, only to bolt on some fugly security, kinda depressing.
i dont think there is or will ever be a clear cut solution to copyright im afraid, i mean, look at windows lol.
I had no idea this was happening. Thanks for the heads up.
badaas said:
the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk...
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I think the OP's suggestion is a good one. It doesn't need to be anything complicated or over the top. Simply text in the About screen will suffice.
I.e.
Help>>About>>"Widget v.1.xx, Developed on XDA-Forums as FREEWARE - If you've paid for this please report the seller to the proper authorities"
i think adding in the freeware statement would be a plus i think if A_C decided to add it in down at the buttom when you first start up S2U2 where it states what verison this is and A_C name would be a good time to have it scroll. If there were some way to have it keep marqueeing while the program is running or for it to do it when the screen wakes up i think as users of A_C's product it wouldn't affect me seeing this because the programs are just that great
Hey Everyone,
I’ve been an XDA user (under another name) for a long time, but now I’ve been appointed a new role to work with Flar and the moderators to make the user experience here better. For example, some of you may have noticed that the site has gotten faster in the last several days and that there are fewer 502 gateway errors. This is no fluke—we’ve employed an expert server administrator who has been restructuring the database to allow for quicker access speeds and far fewer errors. There is still a lot of work to be done, but we’re off to a pretty good start.
Beyond improving site speed, number two on our list is to cut down on spam. We’ve already experimented with a few tactics that have had varying levels of success, and we’ll keep at it until we get it right.
We’re also working on a home page redesign (or the “portal” as some of you know it). Our goal is to make it a useful destination for finding the best content in the forums and to make it easy for users to find new information about a particular device without having to scan through dozens of threads. We are recruiting volunteers to help identify and "promote" content to the main page, which requires some writing skills (see the "news" posted to the home page in the past couple of days). If you're interested and serious about helping, send a PM to Flar; she is organizing the effort.
Finally-- and hopefully this doesn't cause a mass uproar-- we are considering the idea of selectively adding non-HTC device forums (focused on Windows Mobile and Android devices). Every day we get requests from users for this, and there's really no good reason why we cannot oblige them. Already the discussion is happening in the general forums. That said, we will only add new forums if: 1. We are confident added traffic won't cause site speed to suffer; 2. We can recruit quality moderators; and 3. The content and discussion is of high quality. The only way to know these things for sure is to try it out. So, within the next 14 days we are going to add two or three non-HTC forums. The delay is to ensure the site continues to operate at a reasonable speed and so we can figure out where to put the new forums (the forum homepage is already absurdly long and cluttered). We are open to suggestions as to deserving devices for our first non-HTC forums, so give us your ideas in this thread.
I look forward to working closely with you to bring about exciting new changes to XDA that will make the experience better for you.
Hi Svetius
I asked a while ago for a forum for the Roadster, HP iPAQ HX4700, unfortunatly i received no more information on the topic since I sent a PM to Flar, if this could be added as a new forum, i would be happy to moderate it
svetius;5335158
The delay is to ensure the site continues to operate at a reasonable speed and so we can figure out where to put the new forums (the forum homepage is already absurdly long and cluttered). We are open to suggestions as to deserving devices for our first non-HTC forums[/QUOTE said:
It's not that bad Just make a Bookmark
Thanks
Badwolve1
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XDA in 2010
Great to know about all this changes and modifications!
XDA is the number one forum on it´s genre
Personally I think adding non HTC devices could add a lot of intensive traffic and may deviate the main objectives and efforts from what this site was created, but I will support and promote any final decision made by Owners & Admin
Count with my help if required.
Just my 2 cents
Long live to XDA!!
It's great to see another Admin aboard XDA, and a very ambitious one at that! These sound like very exciting changes XDA will be going through, and some are much needed, like spam control and an update to the portal. I look forward to watching these take effect
Amen to non-HTC devices!
As a longtime HTC fan, I appreciate the great community we have here at XDA. But I'm looking to branch out, and I recenlty purchased a Toshiba TG01 that is a powerful device and I'd love to see a forum for that if there is enough demand.
The LG Expo is also poised to be a big seller here in the states; already there is work going on with that here at XDA, so perhaps that deserves a forum (it's one of the first WinMo Snapdragon devices after all).
Long live XDA!
PS Maybe a different color scheme would be nice, the yellow has been giving me lots of eye strain recently...
chambo622 said:
Amen to non-HTC devices!
PS Maybe a different color scheme would be nice, the yellow has been giving me lots of eye strain recently...
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If you use Firefox you might want to try this.
Very glad to hear XDA is dropping their completely non-sensical rule of not allowing non-HTC devices (oh, but we will allow Android on a WM-centric site? pfff)
Aside from l3v5y, none of the better known people on XDA I talk to on a regular bases agree with this rule (most think it's a really stupid move), so I'm sure a lot of people will be happy there will be change.
If I might be so bold as to make a couple of device suggestions:
- Samsung Omnia 2 I8000 GSM & I920 CDMA
- Samsung Omnia Pro B7610 & Giorgio Armani II B7620 (pimped pro)
- Toshiba TG-01 (aka T-01A)
- LG Expo (aka IQ, Monaco)
- Acer F1 (aka neoTouch S200)
Of course there are lots of others but most of them are quickly getting old... At least from my perspective these are the most important devices... Then again, what do I know, ey?
Nice to hear that you guys are so busy in making the experience better on XDA.
But I think we should not include those other non-HTC phones.
Personally I hate those Omnia's, they're in my opinion just crappy phones.
Sad to see it happen but you Mods probably know what's best for the community...
Sounds great to me!
It means my SE X2 will have your support!!!
Bravo!
Chainfire:
The main reason I've been opposed to extra forums is because it would impact the rest of the fora here. If the speed of this site is the first priority, and if this site can still achieve what it was made for (it's in the name really, XDA developers) then I can't really disagree.
Also, it would make a significant increase in the workload for the existing moderators, unless we recruit more....
I think it would work well if the devices selected were only ones that pass muster and are as feature rich as their HTC counterparts (e.g. Omnia II, Toshiba TG01 etc).
I'm fairly new to here, but one thing I do like is that this site is heavily slanted towards Windows Mobile. So while I think it would be great to welcome other Windows Phones into the community, I do not think that Android devices outside of HTC phones should be accepted.
This is absolutely awesome, thanks so much. Having the support of Xda-Devs is absolutely a must when buying a phone. until today buying a Samsung-device was completely unimaginable!
Maybe you can add some JS/AJAX to the page, so all device-specific subforums are folded, except the devices the user needs (multiple devices would be nice).
And IMHO you need a really good and catchy logo.
If you want me to help with designing feel free to send me a PM
What a great Decision
I am really happy to hear this. With my second smartphone (TD) i entered the world of xda developers and found answers for every question i ever had. I think it is the best place for discussions about htc devices. When i bought my Samsung Galaxy i was i little bit f***d up because of no more xda developers and it is great to hear this news now.
...hopefuly there will be a section for Galaxy Users?
I was crazy about xda back when I had an Apache/ppc 6700. But I am also a person who likes to try new things and move on to better things. There is no reason we should be penalized for buying a MOTOTOLA DROID or SAMSUNG GALAXY. Show us some love.
Great News Indeed
Wow! Just an awesome news! I think this is a realy good idea and the right way to became thes most important source for ALL Winmo (and Android) devices.
It's not nonsensical to focus on HTC devices on a website that is FOR those devices.
Imagine people asking for help with their Honda's on a Ford Mustang Forum.
As a long time XDA user, I love this website, when I got the Wizard, then the sapphire, I was insanely grateful to have such resources available to me on this site.
Eventually I got the DROID, at which point I had to abandon this forum, and all it's resources, which sucked, but I understand this isn't the place.
With that said, I am excited to see this forum open up for non HTC devices, as I will directly benefit from it. I am worried however that the forum may suffer not just in speed, but in focus. Think about those Chinese food restaurants that sell Italian food, hamburgers, and burritos, they make everything, but they don't make any one thing well. XDA forum is the equivalent of the BEST burger shop in town, so I think it is a very good idea to run a "Trial Period" and I hope for the best!
.... and yes svetius welcome on board mate
This site keeps getting better and better, I appreciate you guys taking time to consider and address suggestions (adding other popular phones-Android and Windows based) to the site. Keep up the good work guys and gals!
samsung galaxy
Hi all
Been some time since we posted on this site....life and all that gets in the way sometimes.
Just a reminder that a while ago we got some very favorable reviews here about our products; leather holsters and cases for PDAs, cell phones and now - Smartphones.
We are still busy beavering away. If I had the space there surely is a tale worth the telling. But to keep it brief we are still providing the same style of products...and still improving our design and manufacturing techniques to meet the needs of people like you; those folk who live, breath and oft-times work through their mobile devices.
So,,, just a reminder here; if you do need a really good holster or case to protect your mobile device visit our website, use the search button and - if you still cannot find what you need - use the 'Liveperson' button at the top of every page to send us a message.
Oh...and if you are generous enough to purchase one of our very fine products (plug, plug) use the coupon code 'tuff02" to earn a healthy discount.
All the best to one and all.
:good::good:
I'm a new Note 4 user, and generally like the phone. Like anything complex, though, there are a handful of things that I'd prefer to be different. I'll spare everyone from my litany of pet peeves, and just get to the question:
QUESTION: What is the best way to send feedback to Samsung regarding new features / fixes / etc. for the Note 4?
I went to their web site and found various technical/customer support options, but I'm looking for something more focused for enhancement requests. TIA.
I wouldn't waste the time, they are to concerned with jamming their sub par software and applications into their devices just to have their branding and signature on everything you see or interact with to concern them selves with anyone's logical or rational suggestions. Just look how Samsung operates in total perspective, they make TVs and monitors, that's their bread and butter, its where the majority of their most profitable pattens reside. To put this into the most transparent terms possible, they sell more TVs each year than there are phone subscribers with access to their devices in the entire global cellular phone market.
However for some reason to prove to them selves or whoever it is they think they are impressing or competing with, they chose to build garbage on top of googles already 1st class, free operating system and interface, they waste millions of dollars doing so and for some odd reason continue to think that they will one day create a better user experience than Google the company whos bread and butter is development and let's not forgot the company who designs every operating system for every phone they sell.
Until Samsung learns to stop wanting so much counterproductive attention on their products and realizes they would make more money hand over fist buy just selling their products as is with free standard android OS, they will continue to just shovel crap onto their mechanically awesome products rendering them to nothing but bright HD displays running ads that say how stupid they are.
In my personal opinion Samsung just looks stupid next to every other electronics company. And Google needs to grow a pair and say no android OS if you modify a single thing on it. I can't be the only person who sees this flawed business model am I? When's the last time you used an HP, Dell, or Gateway computer that had System modifications of any kind on Windows? You can go out on the limb and applaud HTC for their modifications because they are cell phone company that's all they do, but for Samsung a company that specializes in displays and makes no mobile hardware of their own worth noting, they somehow get the green light on damaging Android OS with their cut rate software, and continue to make the end user of their products disappointed. The worlds gone mad.
Whoa!
:laugh:
I can't say I entirely agree nor disagree with the long post above. I don't hate Samsung, nor am a fanboy of theirs. I just needed a large phone with a stylus, and my previous phone, while large and I LOVED it, didn't have a stylus which was highly needed. All I'm going to say is this:
Most of the time, a large corporation who sells many different devices within a market (ie, phones) wouldn't care about a single consumer's opinion. You are but a single-celled organization to them. They know you're there, but you aren't big enough to see as an individual. In addition, what changes you'd like to see or need- or whatever- most likely won't be what these corporations think their consumer market wants and will buy.
So in other words, if you send them feedback, all you'll get in response is a prewritten thank you letter saying (in summary), "Thanks, we appreciate the feedback and will keep it mind," (but wont).
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 (sm-910a) using Tapatalk
So, it sounds like Samsung doesn't have an email address, web form, forum, etc. for enhancement requests?
On the parallel topic of big evil companies, and with respect to the folks who have offered their opinions on that subject so far, my experience has been quite the opposite - I find that most successful companies do care what their users think about their products. I work in the software industry, and the products I use most on a day-to-day basis invariably offer some sort of channel for sending feedback to the developer. Every app on the Google Play store has a "Send email" link at the bottom of it's page - in addition to many companies monitoring and responding to written feedback in the ratings section. QuickBooks has a "Send Feedback Online" option under the help menu - and even offers different options for sending comments onenhancements, bugs, and doc. A large software company that I used to work for recently implemented a suggestions forum where users can vote on enhancements, actively prioritizes work on new releases based on this feedback, and publicizes the heck out of the results in conferences, doc, and webinars. Every year I see literally thousands of people give standing ovations at one of their conferences because the developer added better Excel integration, or trimmed two clicks from a common workflow. Perhaps the best example is Atlassian, whose products many in these forums no doubt use. They are laser-focused on the people who use their tools - developers - and have been extremely successful at growing into small and large companies alike by inspiring grass roots adoption.
The list goes on. From what I've seen, companies who listen to their users do well as a result.
That said, not every company is as open to feedback as the ones in the examples above. I've found it difficult to provide feedback to Microsoft, for instance, without being part of a beta program. That said, they have robust forums that are well-attended by their internal staff. I can't say for sure, but I have to assume that the most common squeaky wheels get at least I little grease in future releases.
I don't know Samsung very well, which is why I'm asking about feedback options. It would seem odd to me that they don't have some way for users to weigh in on their Android implementation. Collectively, we buy new phones too frequently and switch vendors too easily for them not to care what we think. I like my Samsung phone, but not because it's a Samsung - it just has the features that I want. They obviously do their research into what's likely to sell. I'm hoping that there's some channel where they're actively soliciting input for improvements.
Like spexwood said, I'm not going to waste my time sending a letter to the president of Samsung and get some generic form letter in return. I know that that doesn't work. I also don't expect that Samsung will care about my suggestions, per se, even if they do have some feedback form. But, I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses text messages because the [email protected]#$ing notification beep doesn't fire when a thread is already on the screen (for example), so if mine is one of 10K voices complaining of the same thing, it would behoove them to listen - or maybe next time I'll switch to that nice LG G3 that I almost bought instead of this Note 4.
Anyway, I'm still interested in practical options for sending OS-related feedback to Samsung. Otherwise, I can just rant about stuff xda-developers and hope that someone at Samsung is watching.
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
mcmannion said:
[Samsung] obviously do their research into what's likely to sell.
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I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
mcmannion said:
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
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I almost waited for the S6, then saw the final specs on it, yep not gonna happen no water Resistance no dust resistance and by the way the metal case most likely will have the same issue with scratches that the bezel on the note 4 has. not to mention an octocore 64bit processor that is hobbled at 32bit.
I still might go check it out once my local AT&T store gets them in stock. just to see
I've used the stock rom (android 10) which came on the device, and the Malaysk is what i'm currently running (not paid for as I don't agree with forced payments for roms!) and it is still very laggy and stuff doesn't seem to work.
I've not updated for about 9 months, is there any new roms available (presuming we're talking stock roms since there only seems to be two russian guys making these roms and Hal9k still only has his old Android 9 rom)
How does the Hal9k android 9 rom compare? is it better performance/less bugs etc? compared to stock 10/Malaysk ?
Thanks in advance.
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
entirely not the point, but thanks for your input.
pakoner said:
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
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I see this reply used alot; the comment avoids the OPs comments entirely and the issues around these paid roms, including things like lack of support and the fact that they do not contribute to the advancement of the forums.
Try commenting on topic, addressing the points raised instead of confirming biases.
The fact is they take others work, modify the stock rom and then charge for it.
Coming back on topic, there's generally no need for these modified roms, as the mods/issues they address are no longer an issue (e.g. use a USB OBD), or issues such as speed dependant volume, can be found in launchers or installable apps.
Well there is if people have an older rom unit and want to upgrade it with a more up to date rom with fewer bugs and more inbuilt options.
That said, newer options and features worth having are still few and far between. It seems only car manufactures are able to develop their own units with features that work which do address peoples needs.
For anyone with an older car or a car lacking a good head unit, people have few options. Of course its a far cry from tape players and a readers digest atlas. But once purchased these universal units have so little support or upgrade options people are very much at the mercy of independent developers.
Thankfully these few people are willing to share their knowledge and skill for all. While they might only tinker with what came before, their upgrades and developments are still at their own pace - and thats their choice. If they charge a few quid for some of it then so what. Be gratefull we have them still at all.
Because what really is a shame is that there are now too few skilled developers like them. And that IS the problem. A few years ago developers for phone roms were ten a penny with good healthy competition and a huge influx of ideas and knowledge.
Sadly there are more and more people today with such skills only interested in developing for cash rewards by advertisers on the back of malware or worthless apps.
Those few that do try to help such as those here in the forums, even if they make a charge, do make some progress and share with all. Remember they are also constrained and rely heavily on far more restrictive and less supportive google tools these days than they were.
The real shame is there just isn't enough of them.