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Give me a break...
Charlie Kindel
http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsphone/archive/2010/03/18/know-your-audience.aspx
Wow, MIX10 rocked. I’ve lost my voice which made it pretty hard to do a podcast interview this morning; I’m glad I had the morse code app someone coded up at MIX for Windows Phone 7 Series using the tools we made available there!
If you didn’t get a chance to see the day 1 keynote for the conference you missed an amazing presentation of not only the Windows Phone 7 Series user experience & developer experience but a bunch of amazing 3rd party app demos as well. You can watching it online here.
I had a great time talking with developers and designers about the new development platform at MIX. You’d be amazed how much planning went into delivering these keynotes, demos and sessions. I’ve been doing these shows for years, and the first thing I was taught was to know your audience. For me MIX has been all about exciting developers and designers, but I appreciate that there are people watching online or reading press articles who see things through a different lens. With that in mind, I’d like to clarify a few things.
I’ve talked at length on my developer focused blog and in other forums about our commitment to designing a platform that prioritizes end user experience. Creating and then preserving an incredible customer experience is priority one for Windows Phone 7 Series. We make this point in every session. To illustrate the point we often remind developers that the vast majority of phones are purchased at retail, which means the “end user” we are focusing on is often referred to as a “consumer”. This is not to say that phones or Windows Phone 7 Series in particular are less valuable to business or corporate scenarios; it’s simply a comment on purchase behavior.
We are building a phone focused on the end-user. We are building a phone that will be, primarily, purchased by end-users. We know those end-users have busy personal & business lives. We are building a phone that will be GREAT for helping end-users deal with BOTH their personal & business lives.
Windows Phone 7 Series will be a great business phone. We applied the same end user focus to designing the phone’s business capabilities that we did with every other element of the phone. We asked people and even IT administrators what they need from a phone. The answer was consistent. They want a single device that excels at core business functions like email, reading and editing Office documents and collaboration, while also offering rich features and capabilities that help people stay on top of the different parts of their lives, at home and at work.
We expect Windows Phone 7 Series to appeal to people who are active, connected and working, so Exchange & SharePoint integration and the features within the new Office hub are core to the phone’s value. Similarly, we know that people add these phones to corporate networks and that we need to make that process easy for administrators. Interestingly, when we talk to corporate IT staff and business decision makers they ask us to give them a compelling phone that will not only improve productivity, but also appeal to the end user’s “whole life,” as people wish to carry only one Smartphone to meet both business and personal needs. We think Windows Phone 7 Series will do this better than any other phone on the market today. WHICH BUSINESSES ARE YOU TALKING TO!?!?!?!?!?!
For us, it’s not a matter of “consumer” OR “corporate.” We view our target customer as the kind of person who is looking to technology as a helper in their lives, and we find this kind of person in small businesses, all the way to the largest corporations. Whichever end of the spectrum they are in, we are building a phone that works for them, in their environment.
So when we tell developers and designers that we’ve built a platform for consumers / end users / people, we simply mean that experience is the high order bit – not quantity of features, range of form factors or anything else.
How we tell our story may vary by audience or event, but our singular focus on creating and preserving a great experience for the people who carry a Windows Phone is consistent.
Cheers,
Charlie Kindel
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This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
Like those "typical" households they used to test Vista...facepalm.
rorytmeadows said:
This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
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I don't mean to sound like I'm defending Microsoft's actions with WP7S -- I definitely am not, and am outspoken about my views regarding WP7s -- but the article said they talked with IT staff and management.
I work in IT, and there's a big difference between us and the management. People at the business use company PCs on the company network to go on Facebook and a variety of other personal sites. People use their company-issued BBs to do personal things.
As IT staff members, we don't care. It's business management that cares. My boss -- manager in charge of technical services -- just shrugs off the Facebook network traffic -- it's not his problem, he just keeps the network running.
Modern IT staffs -- in general -- are very liberal. It's the business management that cracks down on stuff like that.
Also, while management may be deep-rooted in a control, all work no fun philosophy, whether they like it or not, they're waking up to the fact that this generation of worker likes to be liberated. It's being pushed to them by speakers and writers and pundits everywhere.
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
Micro$oft = Apple in disguise. They are following Apple to get the BIG BUCKS now.
hidden_hunter said:
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
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Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Yep pretty much, if the work's being done you could sit on facebook all day as far as my boss is concerned
hidden_hunter said:
Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
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As someone that was fired from a job because of LiveJournal content, I don't think I can agree with that statement.
rorytmeadows said:
Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
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As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
rorytmeadows said:
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
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Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
Spike15 said:
As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
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Well, I understand where you're coming from and I can definitely see that productivity would work with that kind of management there. But in a lot of companies, like mine, your workforce isn't bright enough to respond in that manner. I am a therapist at a day program that employs high school graduates (some of which who knows how they made it through high school) and thus, it's a battle to get the work done. They can be gotten rid of, but then replaced by a workforce of the same caliber. Such is my field. Then because of that dominate culture, the "laziness" rubs off on the educated some that also share the space. I don't want any of them on their Facebook accounts at work.
Most of the companies in this country are full of a workforce that can't spell the word workforce. You're entrusting them to these same philosophies of management? You don't have very good odds doing so.
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
rorytmeadows said:
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
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I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
Spike15 said:
I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
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I agree completely. You cannot get the poweruser features that IT specs and nerdy hobbiests like me without buying some application, or at least hacking the phone. You don't have to hack Windows 7 to browse the files or edit the registry. It's part of the OS, as expected.
Spike15:
Well said! I agree 100%.
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
Spike15 said:
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
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Click to collapse
gogol said:
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
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Well, I guess a slate phone is the answer.
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
eaglesteve said:
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
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Because, even jailbroken, it still doesn't have SD card, removable battery, customization is poor, no hardware keyboard, not enough serious apps (lots of iFart, iBoobs i****...) etc.
gogol said:
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
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Last chart I saw suggested that apple market share has been stuck at 25% for the last 3 months. I'm hoping that's not a one time occurrence, and is rather part of a trend. RIM is at 50%+ and increased a 1-2% during the same time (was expected to fall). Android moved up 5%, WinMo down 3-4%, Palm down 1-2%.
I'm hoping this is a trend so we get away from this idea that a phone does not need advanced features, and that people realize that devices that force vendor lockin is not a good idea.
I like marketplaces, but I don't like artificial enforcement of the marketplace. It's my device, I want to use it as I please. Generally, Freedom = good, artificial restriction = bad.
You can put a nice user-friendly candy-coated UI on something without ripping out the advanced features.
As for wp7, I am liking it better than the iphone experience, I don't think MS will prove to be as restrictive as Apple, so I hope it does well. However, I'm still undecided about what my next OS will be.
But I hope the market starts to swing more open and tech oriented with intuitive UIs on top of powerful open devices. And I hope this makes Microsoft open up their policies a bit as a result.
Mod Edit: Thread closed. Please do not post job offers onto xda.
Thanks!
fahim5001 said:
Hi there,
I am looking for a developer who can code me a simple app, the app will be similar to rat on PC.
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You're not asking for a RAT that the user knows it's existence, what you are asking for is a hacking tool, unless it's made for a company so its monitor its (WORK DEVICES) like work computers to make sure the employees are not on Facebook and are actually working, what you're asking for is pretty much illegal and against the law specially that it's a personal device. spying on call logs is a federal felony If you want to "purchase a RAT" for hacking which is pretty much what you are asking for, XDA is not the place for that.
Hell Guardian said:
You're not asking for a RAT that the user knows it's existence, what you are asking for is a hacking tool, unless it's made for a company so its monitor its (WORK DEVICES) like work computers to make sure the employees are not on Facebook and are actually working, what you're asking for is pretty much illegal and against the law specially that it's a personal device. spying on call logs is a federal felony If you want to "purchase a RAT" for hacking which is pretty much what you are asking for, XDA is not the place for that.
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well maybe you got me wrong, its for small company of mine. i provide local small package shipping solution. i have 5 employees who handle delivery via cycle. they pickup packages and get senders information and receivers information, since we are local company we dont take much information from our clients. we do not ask our clients whats inside the package, but when the receiver picks the package we take 2 pictures. 1 picture of receiver and 1 picture of receivers photo identity card. but this isnt the reason for the software i require.
My company also provides a special "emergency pickup" service when the client needs fast delivery. they directly call one of my employees and they take care of everything and take cash money from clients and bring it to company house.
but i have a huge sales drop for last 2 months but my employees are working same as before. i need to track this sales, then i came up with an idea of having a app which can track but my employees wont know what i am tracking, they will know that i am tracking them.
I'm a new Note 4 user, and generally like the phone. Like anything complex, though, there are a handful of things that I'd prefer to be different. I'll spare everyone from my litany of pet peeves, and just get to the question:
QUESTION: What is the best way to send feedback to Samsung regarding new features / fixes / etc. for the Note 4?
I went to their web site and found various technical/customer support options, but I'm looking for something more focused for enhancement requests. TIA.
I wouldn't waste the time, they are to concerned with jamming their sub par software and applications into their devices just to have their branding and signature on everything you see or interact with to concern them selves with anyone's logical or rational suggestions. Just look how Samsung operates in total perspective, they make TVs and monitors, that's their bread and butter, its where the majority of their most profitable pattens reside. To put this into the most transparent terms possible, they sell more TVs each year than there are phone subscribers with access to their devices in the entire global cellular phone market.
However for some reason to prove to them selves or whoever it is they think they are impressing or competing with, they chose to build garbage on top of googles already 1st class, free operating system and interface, they waste millions of dollars doing so and for some odd reason continue to think that they will one day create a better user experience than Google the company whos bread and butter is development and let's not forgot the company who designs every operating system for every phone they sell.
Until Samsung learns to stop wanting so much counterproductive attention on their products and realizes they would make more money hand over fist buy just selling their products as is with free standard android OS, they will continue to just shovel crap onto their mechanically awesome products rendering them to nothing but bright HD displays running ads that say how stupid they are.
In my personal opinion Samsung just looks stupid next to every other electronics company. And Google needs to grow a pair and say no android OS if you modify a single thing on it. I can't be the only person who sees this flawed business model am I? When's the last time you used an HP, Dell, or Gateway computer that had System modifications of any kind on Windows? You can go out on the limb and applaud HTC for their modifications because they are cell phone company that's all they do, but for Samsung a company that specializes in displays and makes no mobile hardware of their own worth noting, they somehow get the green light on damaging Android OS with their cut rate software, and continue to make the end user of their products disappointed. The worlds gone mad.
Whoa!
:laugh:
I can't say I entirely agree nor disagree with the long post above. I don't hate Samsung, nor am a fanboy of theirs. I just needed a large phone with a stylus, and my previous phone, while large and I LOVED it, didn't have a stylus which was highly needed. All I'm going to say is this:
Most of the time, a large corporation who sells many different devices within a market (ie, phones) wouldn't care about a single consumer's opinion. You are but a single-celled organization to them. They know you're there, but you aren't big enough to see as an individual. In addition, what changes you'd like to see or need- or whatever- most likely won't be what these corporations think their consumer market wants and will buy.
So in other words, if you send them feedback, all you'll get in response is a prewritten thank you letter saying (in summary), "Thanks, we appreciate the feedback and will keep it mind," (but wont).
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 (sm-910a) using Tapatalk
So, it sounds like Samsung doesn't have an email address, web form, forum, etc. for enhancement requests?
On the parallel topic of big evil companies, and with respect to the folks who have offered their opinions on that subject so far, my experience has been quite the opposite - I find that most successful companies do care what their users think about their products. I work in the software industry, and the products I use most on a day-to-day basis invariably offer some sort of channel for sending feedback to the developer. Every app on the Google Play store has a "Send email" link at the bottom of it's page - in addition to many companies monitoring and responding to written feedback in the ratings section. QuickBooks has a "Send Feedback Online" option under the help menu - and even offers different options for sending comments onenhancements, bugs, and doc. A large software company that I used to work for recently implemented a suggestions forum where users can vote on enhancements, actively prioritizes work on new releases based on this feedback, and publicizes the heck out of the results in conferences, doc, and webinars. Every year I see literally thousands of people give standing ovations at one of their conferences because the developer added better Excel integration, or trimmed two clicks from a common workflow. Perhaps the best example is Atlassian, whose products many in these forums no doubt use. They are laser-focused on the people who use their tools - developers - and have been extremely successful at growing into small and large companies alike by inspiring grass roots adoption.
The list goes on. From what I've seen, companies who listen to their users do well as a result.
That said, not every company is as open to feedback as the ones in the examples above. I've found it difficult to provide feedback to Microsoft, for instance, without being part of a beta program. That said, they have robust forums that are well-attended by their internal staff. I can't say for sure, but I have to assume that the most common squeaky wheels get at least I little grease in future releases.
I don't know Samsung very well, which is why I'm asking about feedback options. It would seem odd to me that they don't have some way for users to weigh in on their Android implementation. Collectively, we buy new phones too frequently and switch vendors too easily for them not to care what we think. I like my Samsung phone, but not because it's a Samsung - it just has the features that I want. They obviously do their research into what's likely to sell. I'm hoping that there's some channel where they're actively soliciting input for improvements.
Like spexwood said, I'm not going to waste my time sending a letter to the president of Samsung and get some generic form letter in return. I know that that doesn't work. I also don't expect that Samsung will care about my suggestions, per se, even if they do have some feedback form. But, I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses text messages because the [email protected]#$ing notification beep doesn't fire when a thread is already on the screen (for example), so if mine is one of 10K voices complaining of the same thing, it would behoove them to listen - or maybe next time I'll switch to that nice LG G3 that I almost bought instead of this Note 4.
Anyway, I'm still interested in practical options for sending OS-related feedback to Samsung. Otherwise, I can just rant about stuff xda-developers and hope that someone at Samsung is watching.
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
mcmannion said:
[Samsung] obviously do their research into what's likely to sell.
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I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
mcmannion said:
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost waited for the S6, then saw the final specs on it, yep not gonna happen no water Resistance no dust resistance and by the way the metal case most likely will have the same issue with scratches that the bezel on the note 4 has. not to mention an octocore 64bit processor that is hobbled at 32bit.
I still might go check it out once my local AT&T store gets them in stock. just to see
Hi this is my first post. I'm looking at buying the Fire TV stick but my TV has no HDMI socket. My TV is a Panasonic Viera TH-42PE30 and I'm wanting to know what converters will work with this TV and the fire TV stick. I've been told that some converters haven't worked for some people. Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated as I'm looking at purchasing both the fire TV and the converter together.
They make HDMI to DVI and VGA cables should work fine. That's how my PC is running at the moment HDMI out of video card to DVI on my monitor. The HDMI port went bad
Keep in mind that there might be problems with the HDCP copy protection of the HDMI output. If it´s activated within the FireTV many converter may delivered only a black picture on VGA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
edit removed wrong links provided.
No comments about quality, because those things have to do a signal conversion. Its not a simple "cable", all of them are doing signal processing.
Also you might run into problems with HDMIs copy protection.
No comments about quality, because those things have to do a signal conversion. Its not a simple "cable", all of them are doing signal processing.
Also you might run into problems with HDMIs copy protection.[/QUOTE]
So do you think both of those might work?
How likely do you think it is, that I spend the 10 dollars and the effort of hooking up the Fire TV to a VGA port, just to figure out which parts of the video output amazon encrypts with HDCP?
Also - there is a hint in there what you should google next to find out how android devices usually are set up in regards to a certain form of copy protection.
Or you just spend the 10 USD and then come back to tell others - highly unlikely concept, trying something and then reporting back... Nobody does it on social platforms today. Not enough upvotes. people care about the occasional insight into a field, because it makes them feel like they are diverse in their interests, but really, the second time around, it already feels somewhat old. Ask into the aether, wait for the Answer to come back. No filter, no quality control, just random noise. And if you feel like you really want a more valid answer, just venture out and try to exploit a tech community. XDA made a video for this demographic once.
Also, just as a tip - there is a reason that I cant tell how the image quality on these things would be today - even in third world countries - and I mean this in no way demeaning - the proliferation of HDMI enabled TVs is high enough that they start to reach lower income households. Thanks to offbrands. There is absolutely no market anymore for those converters. Thats why they now are in the 10 dollar impulse buy category.
Now you want buying advice on that... Ask your walmart sales rep often which 10USD coffee is the best? Ask some one who worked at those specially retailers, who now go bankrupt, because they were in the business of hiring people who understood what they were selling first, and were salesmen only after that? Then buy it on amazon. You know - the difference between Rhine capitalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Albert ) and whatever form americans are living in contrast to that today.
The economy in an internet forum is really not made for such requests. You bring nothing, you've invested nothing, you take value, you learn nothing that would prevent you from needing personal treatment the next time around, then you repeat the process whenever another need comes along. You exploited others when this still was a job they were paid for by companies - now you are exploiting nameless random people on the internet.
Face it - at least to some extend. Or be happy with the "there be cables" answer, because - there is no middle ground. The economy to provide you with informed and detailed answers simply does not exist.
Do something for yourself, show engagement, search before you ask - and dont fake it, because it just makes you a person who now knowingly abuses others for their benefit.
(And please follow, click subscribe and become a premium member of my one person brand. I get 20% of the proceedings. - You know, the new type of artist, we currently all like so much. Clickingly.)
---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------
Also, this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/help/to-disable-hdcp-t2888934
Thank god for copy protection.
edit: And if you are really in need for a solution, read this: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com...magic_intensity_ps3_owners_read_here_101.html
I can sum it up for you. Just buying a cable that says HDMI to VGA will not work. You have to actually have a converter. Converters for what you are wanting to do usually cost around $40 minmum. The cables are usually used in conjunction with PCI type converters. PCI type converters will not work with the Fire TV since they only work with PCs, so you will need a converter that plugs into an electric outlet.
Actually - I learned something today.
I learned, that amazon.com now does freely sell devices that strip HDCP out of the signal into the american market. Which of course is illegal.
So search for hdmi vga dac hdcp
and read the product descriptions and or comments.
Whatever those boxes cost, they cost 16+ USD from an asia based vendor. Also - because they are this cheap in production (it doesn't count that some vendors sell them for tripple their price), your monitor better supports 1080p natively. With the correct scaling (picture not squished or cut off) and everything.
According to a german amazon post by a customer who talked to their technical support, the FIre TV (not the stick) needs at least a HDCP 1.3 compatibility - at least this was suggested by an answer regarding potential sound issues.
So whatever device you end up buying in the end, it should have the ability to strip HDCP 1.3.
Also - Im suddenly much more forthcoming, because I accidentally, initially provided two links to devices that will not fit your questions profile (just looked for the right connectors (male/female), didnt read that they still werent dac (Digital to Analog converters - which is what you need)) - so I'm in "making good" mode. Because if you are talking as harshly as I was, imho you have to be correct down to the last details.
Wow, thank you all so much. I'm not really a tech guy but I can tell you I'm very appreciative of all the information provided. I will have a look at some converters and let you know how I get on. Thank you again
Its just a very unfruitful question - because the real answer is "buy something that has a HDMI port, everything does - nowadays". The followup answer is, to achieve this your way, you need something that converts the signal. Which is not just "buying a cable" - this thing has to have a chip in it. The follow up answer to that is, that those devices commercially only make sense anymore, if they are dirt cheap, which might lead to signal quality issues (also, potential scaling issues).
The next problem is the copy protection layer (HDCP 1.3) which has to be removed so you can even convert the digital HDMI signal to analog VGA. This wasnt always possible. Also - I would not openly talk about this information, if not amazon themselves were suddenly selling those devices in their store. So I'm choosing just not to share links.
At which point you also have to take into account the different versions of HDCP (because the industry doesnt like broken copy protection standards and writes new ones) and which one you have to circumvent.
And what for? First - copy protection at a point in the signal path, where currently only game streamers rip anything. And second - all that for something that increasingly even woulndt be an issue anymore in third world markets. Because everything nowadays has a HDMI port (- supporting or stripping HDCP). So this is all theoretical, and practical for almost no one in here. Which is why "should I buy this one, or that one" is even harder to answer.
harlekinrains said:
Its just a very unfruitful question - because the real answer is "buy something that has a HDMI port, everything does - nowadays". The followup answer is, to achieve this your way, you need something that converts the signal. Which is not just "buying a cable" - this thing has to have a chip in it. The follow up answer to that is, that those devices commercially only make sense anymore, if they are dirt cheap, which might lead to signal quality issues (also, potential scaling issues).
The next problem is the copy protection layer (HDCP 1.3) which has to be removed so you can even convert the digital HDMI signal to analog VGA. This wasnt always possible. Also - I would not openly talk about this information, if not amazon themselves were suddenly selling those devices in their store. So I'm choosing just not to share links.
At which point you also have to take into account the different versions of HDCP (because the industry doesnt like broken copy protection standards and writes new ones) and which one you have to circumvent.
And what for? First - copy protection at a point in the signal path, where currently only game streamers rip anything. And second - all that for something that increasingly even woulndt be an issue anymore in third world markets. Because everything nowadays has a HDMI port (- supporting or stripping HDCP). So this is all theoretical, and practical for almost no one in here. Which is why "should I buy this one, or that one" is even harder to answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate its not easy to answer but thank you for trying to do anyway. You've really helped me out so thanks! I'll be sure to let you know how I get on.
Does not work. Tried it. You need a converter that has its own power source, cable or other so called converter powered by USB will not work. You need something like this:
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00AQMZI0Y/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AGP6GC0L2FALW
Most cost effective one I've seen with good reviews.
I'very tried a few others that have not worked which is why I'm confident in what I'm saying. Good thing about AMAZON, hassle free return if it doesn't work.
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
harlekinrains said:
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearly you have too much time on your hands.
harlekinrains said:
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure who this is aimed at or what you are trying to say. My gut feeling is that you're offended that I asked for some information to something. It was merely a question that I asked. For your information I have done a lot of research but am not the most technically savvy person when it comes to this. Why some people feel the need to have knowledge and not share it is beyond me, but that is your choice.I thanked you for your help, just as I have everyone else for theirs, accept it or don't, that's up to you. I did not intend to offend but am thankful for the help I have received
I agree with the post above, maybe you have too much time on your hands.
I'm using this one, you can extract the sound from the HDMI too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-HDMI-Ma...473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d40dfe01
chuandinh said:
I'm using this one, you can extract the sound from the HDMI too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-HDMI-Ma...473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d40dfe01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow I didn't think anything like this would work. I have an old Panasonic viera so I'm hoping something like this might work as would be a lot cheaper that way. Thank you for posting:good:
>Wow I didn't think anything like this would work.
If you had read amazon reviews, you' have found out that some of those models strip HDCP as well. Just saying. They advertise it as "compatible with DVD players, Playstation 3 and XBOX", because its illegal.
harlekinrains said:
>Wow I didn't think anything like this would work.
If you had read amazon reviews, you' have found out that some of those models strip HDCP as well. Just saying. They advertise it as "compatible with DVD players, Playstation 3 and XBOX", because its illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was there really any need? I have read reviews about this so stop making such a big deal about this. People are trying to help, yet you seem intent on making out what I've done is wrong. Nobody else has reacted like you, I suggest you don't post if it annoys you so much
Yes there was a need. Focusing on the form factor is harmful, when more than half of those adapters (same form factor) dont strip DHCP from the signal.
Linking to certain ebay sellers or product rebrands is solicitation. Also ebay auctions are gone within a few weeks which might induce the search for similar looking models. "I never thought it would be possible within this form factor" - without context - is drawing potentially harmful conclusions that others could copy and end up with non working devices.
Those are two reasons why It was necessary to break the focus on form factor - and focus on the stripping DHCP part again. As far as price point is concerned, 16USD from some sources also was old news. (This one is 10 USD with no mention of DHCP stripping in the product description (could still be in it) and one anonymous recommendation from someone on the internet.)
This is enough for me to feel the need to become active again.
I have been looking for a more secure _and_ private android rom and have been trying to follow CopperheadOS (CHOS) and Secure Spaces (SS) with only limited sucess. There seems to be a bit more press surrounding CopperheadOS and have heard some good things from sec oriented sites about it but at the same time SS seems to use isolation (something that quite a few sec types bring up and ref Qubes [desktop not mobile OS]) and I think that SS is used on the Blackphone (perhaps not a ringing endorsement but not bad?).
So, I can't find any comparisons, reputable or otherwise of the two Operating systems.
I like that CHOS is trying to go with the google-less ethos however there are about 3 apps I have that I think I can only get on google play (and at least one of them seems to depend on google play for some anti-piracy validation, annoying but damn good app). I am not sure if SS offers a google-less option, and even if it doesn't does that isolation make the google privacy issues a bit less of an issue? (like a space/virt-machine/qube whatever that has google stuff but is completely disconnected from the net?)
Most the individual reviews of both have been pretty superficial so its been all around disappointing that I can't find any in depth reviews not to mention comparisons!
Please tell me someone out there knows of some, or feel free to post the pros and cons of each, would make a *very* useful thread.
gaikokujinkyofusho said:
I have been looking for a more secure _and_ private android rom and have been trying to follow CopperheadOS (CHOS) and Secure Spaces (SS) with only limited sucess. There seems to be a bit more press surrounding CopperheadOS and have heard some good things from sec oriented sites about it but at the same time SS seems to use isolation (something that quite a few sec types bring up and ref Qubes [desktop not mobile OS]) and I think that SS is used on the Blackphone (perhaps not a ringing endorsement but not bad?).
So, I can't find any comparisons, reputable or otherwise of the two Operating systems.
I like that CHOS is trying to go with the google-less ethos however there are about 3 apps I have that I think I can only get on google play (and at least one of them seems to depend on google play for some anti-piracy validation, annoying but damn good app). I am not sure if SS offers a google-less option, and even if it doesn't does that isolation make the google privacy issues a bit less of an issue? (like a space/virt-machine/qube whatever that has google stuff but is completely disconnected from the net?)
Most the individual reviews of both have been pretty superficial so its been all around disappointing that I can't find any in depth reviews not to mention comparisons!
Please tell me someone out there knows of some, or feel free to post the pros and cons of each, would make a *very* useful thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing? Really?
gaikokujinkyofusho said:
I have been looking for a more secure _and_ private android rom and have been trying to follow CopperheadOS (CHOS) and Secure Spaces (SS) with only limited sucess. There seems to be a bit more press surrounding CopperheadOS and have heard some good things from sec oriented sites about it but at the same time SS seems to use isolation (something that quite a few sec types bring up and ref Qubes [desktop not mobile OS]) and I think that SS is used on the Blackphone (perhaps not a ringing endorsement but not bad?).
So, I can't find any comparisons, reputable or otherwise of the two Operating systems.
I like that CHOS is trying to go with the google-less ethos however there are about 3 apps I have that I think I can only get on google play (and at least one of them seems to depend on google play for some anti-piracy validation, annoying but damn good app). I am not sure if SS offers a google-less option, and even if it doesn't does that isolation make the google privacy issues a bit less of an issue? (like a space/virt-machine/qube whatever that has google stuff but is completely disconnected from the net?)
Most the individual reviews of both have been pretty superficial so its been all around disappointing that I can't find any in depth reviews not to mention comparisons!
Please tell me someone out there knows of some, or feel free to post the pros and cons of each, would make a *very* useful thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well spaces is actually not really an OS. it is more a feature for an OS. It is available for download only for the nexus devices (5 and 5x) but this is indeed a stock android with spaces feature included.
The blackphone is claimed to be the world's most secure phone. I had a blackphone 1, hacked it, with a remote hack, handed in POC at bugcrowd, cashed in, but David Puron the head developer has told me that they will not fix this bug anymore as they simply can't on this older version of android. The blackphone 1 has some severe software bugs (not necessarily more vulnerabilities), but development has completely stopped for that phone, and I was advised to buy the blackphone 2 instead. lol. No, thank you.
So if you want security and privacy on your device, well I guess a Nexus 5x or any other of the supported devices (I have the 5x) with copperheadOS is your best choice. CopperheadOS is not a google-less option, it is a complete open source android with no google at all, as in free software based on debian linux, that focuses on security. Fast patching!
If you want google on your device, well you know, then security and privacy are gone.