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Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
EDIT
Sorry, I should have elaborated. I basically want a phone that's good for texting (software keyboard on WP7 is great), fast in general (specifically the browser), has a few good time passing games (more heavy gaming would be done on my Playstation), good facebook support (which WP7 seems to support immensely), good for music/videos, good camera/video quality (I like the iPhone's HDR option, is there an app for that on WP7?) and good call quality/reception. I must admit I like apps, but not to the point that I have withdrawals for not having the same ones on each platform. It seems app development is picking up on WP7 with 100 apps a day and there are already some decent apps I would be using (flixster, IMDB, shazam, etc).
The iPhone has all these things and does them really well, but I feel like iPhone's are becoming a dime a dozen nowadays so I kinda want something that is a little bit different (has to be good though).
Someone asked why I don't like Android and BlackBerry so I guess I will explain (please don't get mad, its just my personal opinion). I've used Android on numerous occasions, but I don't like how it feels for some reason, nor do I like how the carriers customize its phone's interface with crappy skins and fail to update it promptly. I know you can do a lot with rooting, but it being my personal phone I would rather not risk losing data by tempering with it. Regarding BlackBerry's I need a phone with a touchscreen and I think the only BlackBerry at AT&T with a touchscreen is the BlackBerry Torch. When I used it, it just seemed so much slower and more bothering then it was fun to use. I'm not a corporate executive (I'm a senior in high school) that needs a phone to handle 100's of emails perfectly so I would rather not purchase one.
Hey man,
It really depends on what you want to use your phone for. It also depends on whether or not you want to make calls with your left hand (ha).
Seriously, though, I've got a WP7 device and my brother has an iPhone 4. For me, the biggest difference between the two is convenience. I have my upcoming appointments, weather, latest photos, facebook updates, emails and texts all on my homescreen, and most of the information I need day-to-day is available without having to dive into an app. When I had an iPhone, the homescreen's lack of functionality really began to frustrate me, and doing a lot of tasks became laborious.
That said, though, try both and see which you like. Obviously, the iPhone has the edge in apps but if you've got an iPad you can take advantage of iOS's huge store. Of course, the vastness of that store can be a blessing and a curse - in my experience WP7 apps tend to be of a higher standard, visually and functionally.
Basically, I don't see how you can go wrong with this choice. Both are great devices. I'd recommend Wp7 because for me it's more useful, and if you've got an iPad you can still get your angry birds fix. Anyway, try both and you can't go wrong.
Cheers
ErikWithNoC said:
Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Depends on what you want out of your phone. Without that information, the best advice I can give/ way to frame this is that it boils down to one important aspect:
Do you want variety? If you get an iPhone4, you are basically getting a smaller iPad (I own an iPad, so not knocking just saying), but you also get to share apps between the two, music, etc. If you get a WP7, you are getting and entirely new experience and platform. You will be getting duplicates of apps and in many cases music, etc.
For me, I love variety. I have several Android phones, a couple BBs, an iPad, and am getting an HD7 very soon. But I am also a cell phone salesman, so knowing every OS is vital to helping customers get the right phone. I am also a tech geek, so having different gadgets is exciting. Lastly, I am a curious person by nature and don't like not knowing first hand.
So, do you want variety (with the caveat of not having a unified experience) or do you want a unified experience across all your gadgets?
zuka right, it is about what your needs are.
I have the LG Quantum, i am in love, i need the keyboard, and i really like the "spell check" in it, i also have used the camera button more than once. WP7 has a flow to it and after using it for a bit you will like having that back button, i use it alot when my girlfriend txts me in the middle of something and i dont have to think about where i was in the UI. the iPhone is great but the GUI is feeling a little dated to me.
MartyLK said:
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
It is all comes down to the personal choice.
All WP7 devices are built around the same specs pretty much, what makes Focus stand out is its screen IMHO. I do not own neither iPhon4 nor WP7, but I have a Galaxy S with the same screen as the Focus, believe me it is a joy to have it.
iPhone4 retina display is another marvel on its own, but I think 4" screen on Samsung is the balance between real estate and the visual quality.
Of course coming here you will get more favorable opinions towards WP7, but do your research on the choices you might have. AT&T is not big on the Android offerings, but Captivate offers the same screen as Focus, but in different OS implementation.
Good luck on your choice!
pjcforpres said:
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
juist out of interest, OP, why don't you like android or blackberries?
It depends OP. Are you interested in participating in an Open Beta? If so.. WP7 is for you.
lqaddict said:
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
pjcforpres said:
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
lqaddict said:
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
pjcforpres said:
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
lqaddict said:
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and my point is that it is already present in the current offerings, no need to beat the old horse, we are not in 2007 anymore where WP7 seem to be stuck at the moment.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you are saying is, the technology was invented years ago, but MS is too ignorant to understand it and port it?
By the way, please stop going off topic. The OP asked for user experience, I gave my experience. Your other post was completely uncalled for and off topic.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from kindle says it is a universal c&p system for both third party and microsoft proprietary programs
I think a lot of people are being very hard on microsoft right now. There are features that the OS does not provide but it doesn't make me want to go back to any other OS because the experience is poor. I think microsoft has a pretty good 1.0 base with the initial update, I feel surpassing google g1 and android 1.5. there are things I still want from the OS but so far not too shabby
Jesus, can't you guys go one thread without desolving into an android vs wp7 flame war?
Just try and be constructive and answer the guy's question.
The answer to OP is:
Search and browse a lot, see reviews and criticisms of the gadget, then try to "take in the hand" and finally choose.
Avoid opening in this thread. Only generates flame.
Closed Thread.
You know back in the day I use to rely on cnet reviews in order to assist in my hardware purchases. That was a very long time ago. That being said I subscribe to Google Tech News and ran across this gem. http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol This is by far the most hilarious review of Windows Phone I've come across yet. I mean seriously this woman spent two weeks with the phone and got out of it what an average person may have in the first 3 hours. Absolutely priceless and comical if you regularly use this device and have a 3 digit IQ. After reading this thing I feel like a rocket scientist for being able to find my Skydrive Camera Roll in my Pictures Hub. Yes, it's that good.
P.S. - Considering there are people like this out there and dare I say they are the majority perhaps Microsoft should consider building a better introduction of features into the intial boot of the phone.
The WP7 UI is already simple and intuitive, shouldn't be really hard to use. But yeah, there should be a quick guide after phone setup since most people (including this woman) probably don't read the quick start guide first before using the product.
If you read the first part of the review, or any of her previous articles, you'll find she's actually closer to an Android power user. She is not dumb in any way.
Sorry but you can't blame the user on this one; if she couldn't find stuff in 2 weeks, it's because the OS is at fault.
well, i'm sure brandon watson wouldn't mind donating that 1k anyway
a better PR move will be to donate that 1k, after the user tried it, regardless of whether he/she likes it or not
creates positive publicity at the end
Aphasaic2002 said:
If you read the first part of the review, or any of her previous articles, you'll find she's actually closer to an Android power user. She is not dumb in any way.
Sorry but you can't blame the user on this one; if she couldn't find stuff in 2 weeks, it's because the OS is at fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
And her comments regarding Bing Map, Turn-by-turn navigation and Skyfire are unfortunately valid.
She did note that she didn't bother search for anything. She just tried to use the phone without digging into anything.
She didn't know what the hotmail email icon was or how to turn it off.. when it is only 3 taps away.
She couldn't find facebook chat even though it is integrated into messaging.. she just didn't *look* for anything.
Her primary criticisms are completely valid, though.
1. Turn by Turn should not require user interaction after a course is set
2. speech to text should be built more into the OS instead of limited to a few basic functions
3. it is difficult to access skydrive if you're not using it to open office documents or browse pictures. There's no universal cloud access for general purposes made available in the OS.. which is also a valid complaint.
4. It's not very simple to make a playlist in the Zune player.. you can't just long press on a song or an album and add it to a playlist.. you can only generate a playlist from your "now playing" internal playlist (you can save this as a new playlist) or using SmartDJ.
Most of these things aren't a big deal to me. Thankfully there is a "how to" section included in build 7720 for new users to go over the basic functions.
It's very easy to use, imo.. and is laid out in a way that makes sense.. but the average user isn't going to find every single little feature without help.
Andrmgic said:
She did note that she didn't bother search for anything. She just tried to use the phone without digging into anything.
She didn't know what the hotmail email icon was or how to turn it off.. when it is only 3 taps away.
She couldn't find facebook chat even though it is integrated into messaging.. she just didn't *look* for anything.
Her primary criticisms are completely valid, though.
1. Turn by Turn should not require user interaction after a course is set
2. speech to text should be built more into the OS instead of limited to a few basic functions
3. it is difficult to access skydrive if you're not using it to open office documents or browse pictures. There's no universal cloud access for general purposes made available in the OS.. which is also a valid complaint.
4. It's not very simple to make a playlist in the Zune player.. you can't just long press on a song or an album and add it to a playlist.. you can only generate a playlist from your "now playing" internal playlist (you can save this as a new playlist) or using SmartDJ.
Most of these things aren't a big deal to me. Thankfully there is a "how to" section included in build 7720 for new users to go over the basic functions.
It's very easy to use, imo.. and is laid out in a way that makes sense.. but the average user isn't going to find every single little feature without help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is supposed to be a professional review. As such, there is a duty to find actual answers and solutions to problems. Sure, it is ok for her to try and do things without reading or looking for help. It is not ok to end a review without providing those answers or solutions.
This is juvenile journalism. It is sad that the current level of technology journalism has regressed instead of progressed. If our current journalists were to be compared to operating systems, they would be somewhere between DOS and Windows 3.1.
Many of the things she stated, as a journalist, were simply poor observations. The statements she made about Zune Pass should make that abundantly clear. She has no clue. I don't care if she is "considered" an Android guru. Who gave her that crown? I would love to go over her Android skills, if I only had that much time. If this review is any indication of her skills, she is a hack.
naplesbill said:
This is supposed to be a professional review. As such, there is a duty to find actual answers and solutions to problems. Sure, it is ok for her to try and do things without reading or looking for help. It is not ok to end a review without providing those answers or solutions.
This is juvenile journalism. It is sad that the current level of technology journalism has regressed instead of progressed. If our current journalists were to be compared to operating systems, they would be somewhere between DOS and Windows 3.1.
Many of the things she stated, as a journalist, were simply poor observations. The statements she made about Zune Pass should make that abundantly clear. She has no clue. I don't care if she is "considered" an Android guru. Who gave her that crown? I would love to go over her Android skills, if I only had that much time. If this review is any indication of her skills, she is a hack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen! You know this whole thing of being PC on the internet allows some pretty assnine people to become prevalent personlities in the tech scene with almost zero credibility. Just cuse some chick can find the on button on an Android device does not make her a guru.
Aphasaic2002 said:
If you read the first part of the review, or any of her previous articles, you'll find she's actually closer to an Android power user. She is not dumb in any way.
Sorry but you can't blame the user on this one; if she couldn't find stuff in 2 weeks, it's because the OS is at fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is not how a professional reviewer works. One thing is claiming that some feature or functionality is not supported on the device. Another entirely different one is to say that it is indeed supported, but it is hard to find or know how to do.
It should have been her job to make sure what she can and she cannot do on the phone, and if it was too hard to find, then say so, but DO NOT say its not supported or that it cannot be done. Shame on her for this.
I doubt she used d phone for more than an hour. Hoe can u miss out on those things when ur a techie? D article is biased and no effort was put into it whatsoever.
How ever, android is more straight forward w its 'pc' like interface.. For me, I use a PC almost 10hours a day. Don't want a phone that resembles my desktop.. That's where wp7 cones in.
Sent from my LG Optimus 7
wow
this is one DUMB broad
Alrighty then
I would never trust a review with a woman with such a freakishly large left shoulder.
The chip is weighting the other one down.
I'm using Mango 7720 and i never had random reboots on my hd7
I'm using my phone without rebooting for a week without any problems
In Germany we say: "Frauen und Technik" xD
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
shades of OJ??
I'm reminded of a certain someone trying on a pair a gloves. He didn't *want* them to fit, so he made it difficult for them to fit, thus "proving" they didn't. Molly seems to be looking for ways to make her WP experience as disagreeable as possible. She wants it to fall short of Android, so she focuses on all the ways its not Android. She's clearly lost some credibility in my eyes.
There are plenty of devices around, but we are lost with a simple task - how to get a device with steps, hr and sleep data accessed directly from a device?
In general we wish to find a device with a very simple developers' manual where there is a description how to get a specific data from a device using only a BT. So no additional apps need to be installed on Android, no cloud solutions sending data somewhere to USA, China and similar.
We tried:
1. Angel sensor wristband - they closed their business
2. Microsoft band 2 (they have their own app, but still..) - they abandoned the product
3. Pebble watch HR - you know the story
4. Mi band
Now we are w/o options and I really wonder:
1. Why every device maker provide their own application (usually with very low quality) which sends data to cloud? Is it:
1.1. because they analyze the data and sell it to some advertisers?
1.2. because they wish to establish Apple like - echo system? C'mon if Apple did it there is no proof that FitBit, Jawbone, Misfit or .. (put a name into it) will do it.
So my question is: is there any device with a small direct access description? We do not need an API, we just need a protocol description..
Why we need that - there are some regulations which forbid to send data somewhere w/o control (like seniorscare, eHealth, military). It is frustrated that we can support more than 100 sensors with out iotool.io smartphone IoT gateway, but no wearables
Any suggestion?
SenLab said:
We tried:
1. Angel sensor wristband - they closed their business
2. Microsoft band 2 (they have their own app, but still..) - they abandoned the product
3. Pebble watch HR - you know the story
4. Mi band
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the problem with Mi band and Pebble?
SenLab said:
Now we are w/o options and I really wonder:
1. Why every device maker provide their own application (usually with very low quality) which sends data to cloud? Is it:
1.1. because they analyze the data and sell it to some advertisers?
1.2. because they wish to establish Apple like - echo system? C'mon if Apple did it there is no proof that FitBit, Jawbone, Misfit or .. (put a name into it) will do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it's because a very small market. Microsoft has decided not to catch users with their bands - it shows us the value of the market for big boys.
chinesesmartwatch said:
What's the problem with Mi band and Pebble?
Pebble bankrupted. It is hard to get Pebble2 HR, no support; it is a new product, so we are not aware about possible firmware bugs etc.
Xiaomi has three wristbands - all three closed. It took us 3 weeks to support one of them . With good documentation the estimated time to make our iotool.io extension for specific sensor: a few hours.
I suppose it's because a very small market. Microsoft has decided not to catch users with their bands - it shows us the value of the market for big boys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, however there are hundreds of wristbands around from small manufacturers. Every wristband has its own application with rating on Google Play around 2/5. So it is possible to connect it to Android phone. But there is no documentation about comm. protocol. So wristband manufacturer made a bad application which is bad for business, but still don't wish to provide documentation. I think that is a bad decision (don't wish to use stronger words here )
SenLab said:
there are hundreds of wristbands around from small manufacturers. Every wristband has its own application with rating on Google Play around 2/5. So it is possible to connect it to Android phone. But there is no documentation about comm. protocol. So wristband manufacturer made a bad application which is bad for business, but still don't wish to provide documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried to contact manufacturers? It seems that another application for their wristband, which is delivered for free, should be interesting enough. But the problem is to find a proper person, who has some motivation for supporting such offers. Most chinese manufacturers are screened with relatively dumb marketing stuff and their internal bureaucracy is horrible. Aliexpress sellers sometime can provide some pieces of documentation, but it's in chinese and not complete. However, googletranslate can help to get some protocol details. Also it is useful to reverse engineer their applications, but it's very time consuming. Another problem here - how to chose a device without any idea about it's sensors quality and even about the presence of some sensors that often are just virtual things and only able to load some trash from internet.
But if you are a paid worker of iotool.io then may be it is possible to convince your boss to spend some money on a serious screening of at least some manufacturers. Some bracelets are very cheap (5$) and in case of presence of a good application the market share can be very big.
Thank you for your help. I'm a CEO of SenLab, maker od IoTool. And believe me, we invested a lot of resources into that. But, there is no real support, firmware change, models change and similar. It is not possible to support this. And, we do not wish to invest into every wristband, but to ask big players, what is in their mind? Some of applications from big and well known providers are rated around 2 on Google Play. No one wish to use them, but big players are stubborn and just follow their route.
SenLab said:
I'm a CEO of SenLab, maker od IoTool. And believe me, we invested a lot of resources into that. But, there is no real support, firmware change, models change and similar. It is not possible to support this.
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Click to collapse
In my opinion if you have enough resources then finding a responsible manufacturer is absolutely possible. Of course, it wouldn't be a big company, but there could be a good and cheap product that requires just a better application. However, I don't know your business strategy and may be such approach is not for you.
SenLab said:
And, we do not wish to invest into every wristband, but to ask big players, what is in their mind? Some of applications from big and well known providers are rated around 2 on Google Play. No one wish to use them, but big players are stubborn and just follow their route.
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Big boys work as follows:
They look at the market, they see a successful company, they copy the company's strategy and don't care about anything else. If anybody want to convince big boys to do something then most probably they think the person wants a free lunch and just ignore him. So, you need some connections within the company or you need a well known name for them to listen to you. And it means just one thing - only small and medium sized companies can be targeted by you (if you haven't connections, of course). But you don't want to invest into every wristband, so, there's nobody left for you - big boys won't listen to you and you won't ask some little boys.
Also the logging strategy of iotool.io is not very convenient for many people. People mostly don't want just a logging of some data from some sensors. They want something more useful, like heart rate monitor or calories calculation. Sensor set is just a way to provide the final product - the really needed in real life. Good sensor set can provide better final product, but the task of deciphering of some useful conclusions from logged data is not for the majority of people. So, you need to connect the logged data with people's needs. And while there's no such connection your product will catch only the small market of enthusiast users.
i understand the concept started in 2017, but for longevity and support, it really should have started with full Treble support.
maybe a few more rounds of hardware design refinement first (like proper usb-c compatibility and complete standard mobile feature set, maybe camera that can swivel front to back if they only put in one, and some way to use the touchscreen without opening the clamshell like maybe i dunno a slider style instead?)
and software refinement (like not including the MTKlogger spyware the FTC scolded BLU and ADUPS about earlier this month) but they get awesome points for their releasing source codes so quickly unlike the usual suspects, and even more bonus points for the linux dual boot as well.
this is all based on the reviews. (edit: and forum posts by users at oesf)
anyway, i'm looking forward to the next gen version of this to replace my CM KK Relay slider finally.
jmichael2497 said:
i understand the concept started in 2017, but for longevity and support, it really should have started with full Treble support.
maybe a few more rounds of hardware design refinement first (like proper usb-c compatibility and complete standard mobile feature set, maybe camera that can swivel front to back if they only put in one, and some way to use the touchscreen without opening the clamshell like maybe i dunno a slider style instead?)
and software refinement (like not including the MTKlogger spyware the FTC scolded BLU and ADUPS about earlier this month) but they get awesome points for their releasing source codes so quickly unlike the usual suspects, and even more bonus points for the linux dual boot as well.
this is all based on the reviews.
anyway, i'm looking forward to the next gen version of this to replace my CM KK Relay slider finally.
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Maybe you should, ummm, try it before jumping to conclusions like you just did. It's a great device.
dimex said:
Maybe you should, ummm, try it before jumping to conclusions like you just did. It's a great device.
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:laugh: that saying does not apply in this situation.
i've already looked through many pictures, read through multiple reviews across the web, read forum posts (here and oesf which has a running list of known issues) from people who have used the product.
basic science: "does it replicate? yes".
anyone that has done sufficient research on a topic will find that others have already performed the same studies and reached the same conclusions, so no need to repeat the process as it has already been verified.
anyway, back to waiting for the next gen version with the first round awkwardness worked out.
meanwhile, the "gpd win 2" that kept getting mentioned in comparison (though not android mobile device) seems kinda interesting. hopefully a "gemini 2" is a similarly notable improvement compared to the first as i'm much more a fan of Sliderrrsss.
jmichael2497 said:
:laugh: that saying does not apply in this situation.
i've already looked through many pictures, read through multiple reviews across the web, read forum posts (here and oesf which has a running list of known issues) from people who have used the product.
basic science: "does it replicate? yes".
anyone that has done sufficient research on a topic will find that others have already performed the same studies and reached the same conclusions, so no need to repeat the process as it has already been verified.
anyway, back to waiting for the next gen version with the first round awkwardness worked out.
meanwhile, the "gpd win 2" that kept getting mentioned in comparison (though not android mobile device) seems kinda interesting. hopefully a "gemini 2" is a similarly notable improvement compared to the first as i'm much more a fan of Sliderrrsss.
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Boy, you sure are a...douche
The GPD Pocket and Win2 are complete crap compared to the Gemini. I couldn't even browse the internet without major slowdowns and stuttering on the Pocket. The CPU is simply too underpowered for anything legitimate.
You're the expert though, keep holding out for the next gen sweetheart.
dimex said:
Boy, you sure are a...douche
The GPD Pocket and Win2 are complete crap compared to the Gemini. I couldn't even browse the internet without major slowdowns and stuttering on the Pocket. The CPU is simply too underpowered for anything legitimate.
You're the expert though, keep holding out for the next gen sweetheart.
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y u mad bro? insert actually applicable saying about insults being the refuge of etc.
it is generally considered common for most tech to not get things perfect on the first iteration, instead pushing alpha or beta quality something out the door that people can see, to get more money, research, field testing, and do it better the next time.
(this is why mission critical businesses tend towards the "i'll wait for sp1 to come out before upgrading the OS" mindset exists)
so if you were personally involved in the production of the device and decided to take offense, then i'm super sorry if your feelings got hurt. but you seem to be in a grumpy mood so i hope you have a good rest of your day though :fingers-crossed:
anyway, i'm gonna point the Relay users to keep an eye on this company, since they look likely to produce a promising mobile replacement (unlike the "gpd win 2", which is the only gpd device i mentioned, as i already stated is not a comparable mobile product, like apples to oranges, laptops to mobiles lolz).
(edit for typos)
jmichael2497 said:
y u mad bro? insert actually applicable saying about insults being the refuge of etc.
it is generally considered common for most tech to not get things perfect on the first iteration, instead pushing alpha or beta quality something out the door that people can see, to get more money, research, field testing, and do it better the next time.
(this is why mission critical businesses tend towards the "i'll wait for sp1 to come out before upgrading the OS" mindset exists)
so if you were personally involved in the production of the device and decided to take offense, then i'm super sorry if your feelings got hurt. but you seem to be in a grumpy mood so i hope you have a good rest of your day though :fingers-crossed:
anyway, i'm gonna point the Relay users to keep an eye on this company, since they look likely to produce a promising mobile replacement (unlike the "gps win 2", which is the only gps device i mentioned, as i already stated is not a comparable mobile product, like apples to oranges, laptops to mobiles lolz).
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Like I said, you are the authority on technology. "Keep an eye on this company" everyone, jmichael2497 with 4 posts wants you to.
dimex said:
Like I said, you are the authority on technology. "Keep an eye on this company" everyone, jmichael2497 with 4 posts wants you to.
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quality over quantity, usefulness over post count
:laugh: it is easy enough to read information without adding comment noise like +1 and "me too bro"... like reading a library book without scribbling in the margins (plus it helps avoid "typical internet comments" like yours that discourage intelligent discourse).
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato
anyway, enough troll feeding (you must be getting so full it is hard for you to read my post count isn't 4 :silly: ).
Possibly one of the dumbest threads I've seen on XDA in a long time.
Sess said:
Possibly one of the dumbest threads I've seen on XDA in a long time.
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Gotta love fools with 8 posts and no experience with a device to come in and give expert commentary.
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
I literally bought the P6P mainly for this reason. Using GrapheneOS for a month or so and it was the best choice of my (smartphone) life!
nastyneighbor said:
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
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I don't because of convenience. Security and privacy isn't all or nothing. There are levels to it.
Have nothing to hide and prefer having integrated apps from Google all play nice with each other.
I do plan on trying out Graphene down the line tho, there's no reason people shouldn't at least try it out. The flashing method there and back is just so good it's worth doing just to experience the future of this kinda stuff
nastyneighbor said:
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
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Click to collapse
Convenience. I want all the apps and features that come with a Pixel, and Graphene would mean to sacrifice 70% convenience for more security.
I am deep into all the Google apps and will not stop doing that. They are simply too good.
nastyneighbor said:
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
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Click to collapse
Because if i wanted all that I'd buy a Nokia 3310.
As expected you will see replies from people fully in the Google stuff and people who do not like big tech and try to get rid of it as much as possible.
Ofcourse the Pixel is a phone which is as much as possible integrated in the Google features, though I think it is also a phone which is great for unlocking and to use with another OS.
At this moment I am still on my Oneplus 3t with LOS18.1 and without any further Google stuff (Google Play Store, Google Servcies etc...). When the mobile drain issue is fixed on the Pixel 6 Pro, this will probably my next phone and the first thing I will do is unlocking and then installing Graphene.
Why?
Several reasons, but the most important one is that I will decide myself what I share with the outside world, not Google. In this time of corona, QR codes and the so called "corona passports" more and more people are seeing the bigger picture. I think it is time we get our privacy back and decide ourselfs what to share and what not. This is our right as world citizen and no-one, even the big tech or the government can take this right away from us.
The second most important one is battery life. What I see on my OP3T is that, even after 6 years the phone does have a battery life of at least two days because of a minimum of background syncing and getting the phone out of deep sleep because of sensors or other stuff I have no idea of.
May be I am a little paranoia sometimes, but I think it is good to be a little critical and to keep thinking for yourself.
So yes, almost sure the next phone is a Pix 6 Pro and yes, the next OS will be Graphene or LOS when available.
I'm waiting for TWRP and possibly other roms. I know you can install via the web, but if I'm going to go to the hassle of unlocking I want to make sure I have options and the ease of TWRP. I look forward to trying it, though.
Wouldn't a more accurate question be why would you buy a phone that was designed with a processor to work specifically with Google's software and then strip the device completely of Google's software (other than AOSP)
I don't worry about privacy because A: I don't do any illicit activity. B: idgaf what data Google mine on me, I'm not that special and there's nothing interesting going on usually with my smartphone. If Google wants to know what shower thought questions I want the answer to whilst I'm taking a dump they can happily know . I think these privacy loonies seriously overestimate how interesting or valuable their data is, we're all just consumers and statistics.
Also, having the play store and Google services is convenient with regards to updates etc. Not to mention the contact/calendar/photo syncing.
Convenience. Same reason this is the first time I've been unrooted for over a decade. I love how things just work and updates are seamless, I don't have to worry about Saftynet or if an app might detect root at some point and keeping magisk updated
Opensystem said:
Have nothing to hide and prefer having integrated apps from Google all play nice with each other.
I do plan on trying out Graphene down the line tho, there's no reason people shouldn't at least try it out. The flashing method there and back is just so good it's worth doing just to experience the future of this kinda stuff
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Click to collapse
"Nothing to hide" is a pretty baseless argument. Everyone's got something to hide, passwords, bank account login, SSN, etc.
I 98% like the way my rooted and Magisk-moduled stock ROM on the P6P works as-is. I have nothing against the custom ROMs, and definitely nothing against the so professionally developed ones. They're interesting. I think it's great that they're available. Everyone's needs and expectations are different.
CodeFox said:
I don't worry about privacy because A: I don't do any illicit activity. B: idgaf what data Google mine on me, I'm not that special and there's nothing interesting going on usually with my smartphone. If Google wants to know what shower thought questions I want the answer to whilst I'm taking a dump they can happily know . I think these privacy loonies seriously overestimate how interesting or valuable their data is, we're all just consumers and statistics.
Also, having the play store and Google services is convenient with regards to updates etc. Not to mention the contact/calendar/photo syncing.
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Click to collapse
I share the same sentiment.
I use XPrivacyLua to block certain apps (meta apps/tiktok, etc) from seeing app list, accessing camera/mic/location etc because they have no need for to access that data in the background, but Google's use of my data makes my life more convienient.
Blocking ads means that I also don't see whatever ads Google thinks are relevant to me, so despite the fact that they have the data on me, it really doesn't have the slightest effect on my life. Even if this wasn't the case, I'm very unsusceptible to advertising so I wouldn't notice any difference, but I can understand why wanting Google to have less data on you could be advantageous if you're say, a level 10 susceptible (I know a few people like this).
If anything, I'd be happier with a ROM with more features that make my life easier & phone more conveinent to use, than a privacy conscious ROM which would actually be more of a hinderance to me, personally.
Privacy is an illusion just like the American Dream. Have to be asleep to believe them both. Joking aside, convenience is why.
razercortex said:
"Nothing to hide" is a pretty baseless argument. Everyone's got something to hide, passwords, bank account login, SSN, etc.
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"Everyone's got something to hide" is a pretty baseless argument, as I do not. I generally do not use my phone for sensitive information.
Any info that is on here right now, Google had long before I purchased this device. I would be careful with assumptions on XDA, most here aren't exactly average users.
Opensystem said:
Have nothing to hide and prefer having integrated apps from Google all play nice with each other.
I do plan on trying out Graphene down the line tho, there's no reason people shouldn't at least try it out. The flashing method there and back is just so good it's worth doing just to experience the future of this kinda stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much this. The Google ecosystem works for me. I'm not afraid of feeding Google since the worst that usually happens is the same ad bothering you for a week or two. I've never been a free/libre software purist either.
The idea of microg or compatibility layers are fine, but I bought a Pixel because it's a Pixel. Having a bootloader that doesn't complain is just a bonus. Cloud backup and cloud restore is a must for me though. Maybe when Lineage comes out a stock-ish gapps experience will be possible.
At the moment, I only see custom roms as experiments. Latest firmware is important for this phone and not every rom stays current even if there are improvements being made over AOSP.
I purchased a Google phone because I want the Google features. I have had many phones over the years, and kept coming back to Google because of the integration. I don't want to login 5 times to get my email, cloud storage, photos, calendar, etc. working. I also use a lot of Google products at home (Google TV, Google Home, Nest, etc) so my phone and house play well together. When they started making Pixels, and adding exclusive features to them, it made it even harder to go with another OEM, or even ROM at that point. It seems like every time I've tried a ROM I end up losing some functionality of the Pixel. I like the stock ROM for the most part, and there are magisk modules to fix the things I don't like, therefore making it perfect .
Opensystem said:
"Everyone's got something to hide" is a pretty baseless argument, as I do not. I generally do not use my phone for sensitive information.
Any info that is on here right now, Google had long before I purchased this device. I would be careful with assumptions on XDA, most here aren't exactly average users.
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Apologies, I didn't mean it as an attack, just generally.
Unfortunately, I handle sensitive information like bank login on my phone, so I have to safeguard it :/
I will not waste my time on those because I'm not a paranoid conspiracy nut. Why in the world would anyone pay close to 1k on a smartphone, just to eliminate a majority of the features and functions is beyond me. Everything is already out there and has been for years. If I was that concerned about privacy, I'd smash my phone, destroy my sim, and lock myself in a bomb shelter and never come out. When I first heard people mention those builds, I thought it was like an April fool's prank.
scott.hart.bti said:
I will not waste my time on those because I'm not a paranoid conspiracy nut. Why in the world would anyone pay close to 1k on a smartphone, just to eliminate a majority of the features and functions is beyond me. Everything is already out there and has been for years. If I was that concerned about privacy, I'd smash my phone, destroy my sim, and lock myself in a bomb shelter and never come out. When I first heard people mention those builds, I thought it was like an April fool's prank.
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This. This is exactly how I feel, right on the nose.
You can't buy a $1000 Google flagship phone and put a custom ROM on it and expect that it's good enough to hide your information from the world well enough to satisfy you. This is the prime age of technology, information moves way too fast for anybody to stop it. Even if you put GrapheneOS on the phone, you still have a cellular carrier that knows your information, you still have to access the internet in some fashion and because your phone is basically an extension of yourself you're going to identify yourself in a multitude of ways regardless of how many services you take off the phone.
I just think, in my opinion, it's better to accept it and just live within your means than go through all the stresses of trying to shrink your footprint. You can't even reap the total value of having a phone this expensive if you're basically ridding it of all of what makes it as valuable as it is. If you worry about your information being snooped upon to that extent you'd be better off buying an old Blackberry or flip phone.
Just my two cents on the matter.