Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
EDIT
Sorry, I should have elaborated. I basically want a phone that's good for texting (software keyboard on WP7 is great), fast in general (specifically the browser), has a few good time passing games (more heavy gaming would be done on my Playstation), good facebook support (which WP7 seems to support immensely), good for music/videos, good camera/video quality (I like the iPhone's HDR option, is there an app for that on WP7?) and good call quality/reception. I must admit I like apps, but not to the point that I have withdrawals for not having the same ones on each platform. It seems app development is picking up on WP7 with 100 apps a day and there are already some decent apps I would be using (flixster, IMDB, shazam, etc).
The iPhone has all these things and does them really well, but I feel like iPhone's are becoming a dime a dozen nowadays so I kinda want something that is a little bit different (has to be good though).
Someone asked why I don't like Android and BlackBerry so I guess I will explain (please don't get mad, its just my personal opinion). I've used Android on numerous occasions, but I don't like how it feels for some reason, nor do I like how the carriers customize its phone's interface with crappy skins and fail to update it promptly. I know you can do a lot with rooting, but it being my personal phone I would rather not risk losing data by tempering with it. Regarding BlackBerry's I need a phone with a touchscreen and I think the only BlackBerry at AT&T with a touchscreen is the BlackBerry Torch. When I used it, it just seemed so much slower and more bothering then it was fun to use. I'm not a corporate executive (I'm a senior in high school) that needs a phone to handle 100's of emails perfectly so I would rather not purchase one.
Hey man,
It really depends on what you want to use your phone for. It also depends on whether or not you want to make calls with your left hand (ha).
Seriously, though, I've got a WP7 device and my brother has an iPhone 4. For me, the biggest difference between the two is convenience. I have my upcoming appointments, weather, latest photos, facebook updates, emails and texts all on my homescreen, and most of the information I need day-to-day is available without having to dive into an app. When I had an iPhone, the homescreen's lack of functionality really began to frustrate me, and doing a lot of tasks became laborious.
That said, though, try both and see which you like. Obviously, the iPhone has the edge in apps but if you've got an iPad you can take advantage of iOS's huge store. Of course, the vastness of that store can be a blessing and a curse - in my experience WP7 apps tend to be of a higher standard, visually and functionally.
Basically, I don't see how you can go wrong with this choice. Both are great devices. I'd recommend Wp7 because for me it's more useful, and if you've got an iPad you can still get your angry birds fix. Anyway, try both and you can't go wrong.
Cheers
ErikWithNoC said:
Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Depends on what you want out of your phone. Without that information, the best advice I can give/ way to frame this is that it boils down to one important aspect:
Do you want variety? If you get an iPhone4, you are basically getting a smaller iPad (I own an iPad, so not knocking just saying), but you also get to share apps between the two, music, etc. If you get a WP7, you are getting and entirely new experience and platform. You will be getting duplicates of apps and in many cases music, etc.
For me, I love variety. I have several Android phones, a couple BBs, an iPad, and am getting an HD7 very soon. But I am also a cell phone salesman, so knowing every OS is vital to helping customers get the right phone. I am also a tech geek, so having different gadgets is exciting. Lastly, I am a curious person by nature and don't like not knowing first hand.
So, do you want variety (with the caveat of not having a unified experience) or do you want a unified experience across all your gadgets?
zuka right, it is about what your needs are.
I have the LG Quantum, i am in love, i need the keyboard, and i really like the "spell check" in it, i also have used the camera button more than once. WP7 has a flow to it and after using it for a bit you will like having that back button, i use it alot when my girlfriend txts me in the middle of something and i dont have to think about where i was in the UI. the iPhone is great but the GUI is feeling a little dated to me.
MartyLK said:
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
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I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
It is all comes down to the personal choice.
All WP7 devices are built around the same specs pretty much, what makes Focus stand out is its screen IMHO. I do not own neither iPhon4 nor WP7, but I have a Galaxy S with the same screen as the Focus, believe me it is a joy to have it.
iPhone4 retina display is another marvel on its own, but I think 4" screen on Samsung is the balance between real estate and the visual quality.
Of course coming here you will get more favorable opinions towards WP7, but do your research on the choices you might have. AT&T is not big on the Android offerings, but Captivate offers the same screen as Focus, but in different OS implementation.
Good luck on your choice!
pjcforpres said:
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
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Click to collapse
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
juist out of interest, OP, why don't you like android or blackberries?
It depends OP. Are you interested in participating in an Open Beta? If so.. WP7 is for you.
lqaddict said:
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
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Click to collapse
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
pjcforpres said:
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
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I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
lqaddict said:
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
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Click to collapse
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
pjcforpres said:
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
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Click to collapse
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
lqaddict said:
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and my point is that it is already present in the current offerings, no need to beat the old horse, we are not in 2007 anymore where WP7 seem to be stuck at the moment.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you are saying is, the technology was invented years ago, but MS is too ignorant to understand it and port it?
By the way, please stop going off topic. The OP asked for user experience, I gave my experience. Your other post was completely uncalled for and off topic.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from kindle says it is a universal c&p system for both third party and microsoft proprietary programs
I think a lot of people are being very hard on microsoft right now. There are features that the OS does not provide but it doesn't make me want to go back to any other OS because the experience is poor. I think microsoft has a pretty good 1.0 base with the initial update, I feel surpassing google g1 and android 1.5. there are things I still want from the OS but so far not too shabby
Jesus, can't you guys go one thread without desolving into an android vs wp7 flame war?
Just try and be constructive and answer the guy's question.
The answer to OP is:
Search and browse a lot, see reviews and criticisms of the gadget, then try to "take in the hand" and finally choose.
Avoid opening in this thread. Only generates flame.
Closed Thread.
Related
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times. And maybe only 1 of those times isn't supported by current WP7. I think I was trying to copy a selected joke off the internet and send it in a text to someone. Is that really a deal breaker? REALLY? I can't copy and paste in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I can't multitask in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I don't have access to the file system so this phone sucks? lol This is getting out of hand. I'm not gonna lie, after seeing it in person I want to give a few thoughts:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
2) MS isn't just forgoing certain aspects, they are giving you something they perceive is BETTER(and they could be wrong). And I get to thinking about this for a minute. I'm running an Acer S2000, I don't have much problems with running multiple apps at the same time but If I go back to my old Touch HD, After running maybe 4-5 apps at the same time(hell just one 2-3 apps provided one of them is google maps), I start to experience extreme slowdown in the device so now I'm forced to use the task manager and close out apps. This is everyday stuff for us, no biggie. But to the everyday end-consumer its pretty tough and annoying concept to grasp. So why shouldn't the system do it for you? Why shouldn't the system recognize the fact that you just got an email with a phone number and that by clicking on the phone number you either want to add it as a contact or call the number? Why? Is a very important question. People ask why are some of us defending it to the death, I ask why are certain people so unwilling to accept change? Its not like WM6+ is dead...
3) its not an iphone clone. Hell, Android and WebOS has multitasking, I guess they are WM-clones... Its such a stupid concept. It looks nothing like the Iphone and it doesn't act anything like the Iphone. But you gotta give Apple some credit, they know what people want and they provide it, thats how you go from the bottom of the hill to the top in 4 quick years. The Iphone reinvented what people use a phone for. Its simple and intuitive (just press what you want) WM is going for that same lot of people. If everyone from XDA didn't buy WP7, MS wouldn't even break a sweat because it know it will gain far more everyday users than it will lose from powerusers. Powerusers will stay where they are, but look at the population of the world with Tweet, facebook, myspace, etc. You don't think some of them are salivating at the mouth to get to this powerhouse? I wish MS would have just flat out said, "you wanna hack phones and tinker with system files, this phone isn't for you, go suck it XDA" it would have been so much easier for people to take
So look at the positive
Developers (which i have to believe are the life blood of WM and THIS WEBSITE...unless you're a leech in which case no need to respond) No more need to spend you precious time building beautiful apps and not get paid for it(if it were the case A_C would be one rich dude by now). I like the idea of the marketplace as the only place to get apps. I mean when people think about how many people take innovation for granted on this site. Show up, find something new, download someones work...not leave a message of thanks, not donate etc....just poof gone. Thats complete and utter crap. Devs should get paid for their work, free download with a set trial period is an amazing idea and will definitely go a long way to seeing 1) quality developers getting most of the service 2) quality apps drive the marketplace to further innovation. This is a all around plus for the end user and developers.
Built in memory. I think is a plus. Now people can argue the contrary but this is more of a personal thing for me. Plus when you think of the end user, it only works out for the better. Give me 32GB and I'm fine. Hell I haven't come close to maxing out the same 4 gig I've had for the past 3-4 years.
Everything is better than Windows media player. I must say, I use my phone for music a lot (Jaybird bluetooth FTW) and I must say the Zune experience is amazing (I also have a Zune) and its just beautiful. Gone are the days when I copy songs onto my phone and I end up with Unknown song 1-18 by unknown artist. Zune desktop is head and shoulders above WM and Itunes. Hell you can search more music by and artist you have on your phone, listen to songs and download them str8 to the phone with the Zune Pass. I get 10 free songs a month to keep, and can listen to anything I want anytime for $15 a month. Thats an awesome deal considering Itunes is 99 cents per song and you don't have the ability to listen to anything you want anytime you want.
Info on the go, I like the hubs...I love the hubs. I wish i used social networking sites..lol. Honestly the amount of detail that goes into the total system integration of social networking is sheer madness. Your photos update with photos that people post on their facebook?!?!?! WTF? Thats insane. Its quite ridiculous how far they went, but if you care about that, and a lot of people do, then this is the ultimate device. You don't need to launch twinkini or whatever twitter app to see whats going on, you only need to look through your contacts. Thats awesome
MS Office, I never used anything but XLS files personally but I'm looking at the way its integrated (even though they didn't get too in depth) and it looks great. It looks clean (METRO UI) and it looks easy to use. I can't wait to get some pinch to zoom action going. Powerpoint presentations should be a breeze as well.
XBOX HUB, sheer awesomeness. I don't have an Xbox(PS3 FTW) but Linking it all together they way they have is nothing short of innovative and awesome. Give me an Xperia X3 with a PS3 Integration and I'll love you forever. Also a big shout out goes to the game development. Graphics are seriously on par with PSP quality. It quite amazing.
I once said:
"its(WP7) not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation..."
I still stand by that after MIX10. I won't bash WP7 and I will defend it because I believe it is that innovative, I believe it is a game changer. For all the complaining there hasn't been a congruent amount of love spread so I will be that guy even if the flame gets ridiculous. So yeah, MIX10 was amazing, got robbed, won some money, got married and divorced (I kid) it was a great experience, something that watching it on video cannot give justice to.
That said I will give a few of my small personal beefs.
1) The phone handles multitasking in a way that closes programs when the system needs the resources, why don't we have control over this? Having the ability to manually close programs is important...should be an option. Assuming the system doesn't have some genius way of making me happy with its multitasking...this could be a problem. Also, with the spec given, how the hell is this system running out of resources?
2) SD cards aren't supported. Eh, with enough built in memory this isn't a problem to most but, I know some that have maxed out their Iphones/Ipod touch. It would be nice to have an expandable option
3) Compatiblity issues, How am I supposed to share files with my phone to my PC if I cannot access activesync? Do I email the file to myself then open it on my PC? There better be some answer for this.
4) Also I use my current WM phone as a thumbdrive alot. I just store stuff on it to keep with me and put on my work PC and vice versa. Without activesync, memory cards, or access to system files how is this accomplished?
~style1~
ALRIGHT those are my thoughts, I tried to play both sides of the fence even though I'm completely biased..lol. I do bring up some interesting issues with WP7...what are your thoughts? Also sorry for another long thread
style1 said:
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times.
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Click to collapse
That's nice, but what's the rationale for not including it for anyone? MS says, "Our research indicates that people don't use copy and paste." That scares me because it is very Apple-esque. I hate the philosophy of "we know what works best for you, so why don't you shut the eff up and not ask any questions, OK? Just do what you're told and play in our nice little walled in garden and everything will be fine." That Apple mentality has spread to MS it seems. I don't often look at or take pictures on my phone, either, but does that mean those capabilities should be removed? No, they should be there in the event that I do want to use them. What's the harm in leaving in copy and paste?
And if I can get good battery life on my TP2 with multitasking, why can't they coax it out of the shiny new WP7? How does Palm do it?
I store all sorts of crap on my phone, so they better have 32GB versions available and let me use it as USB storage.
Also, I heard you won't be able to set different programs as the default (say, Opera instead of IE). Which is another ridiculous restriction and just shows that MS has gone overboard with control, just like Apple. And that's just the reason I don't have an iPod or iPhone.
So if things don't change, I'm off to Android.
Engadget, by the way, has been actually quite balanced with WP7 versus their coverage of WM6. And prior to the all bad stuff we learned at MIX10, they were hyping it quite a bit themselves.
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
I'm feeling kinda torn with regards to WP7s. On the one hand I love the UI and the integration, on the other I hate the lock down. Not just the software lock down but also the hardware lock down. It's what I hated about the Iphone, and it's what I hate about WP7s. Granted, there's gonna be more variety with WP7s, but it's constrained variety.
When I first saw WP7s I was certain my next phone would be with that OS. Now I'm not so sure...
Regards
havox22 said:
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
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Click to collapse
They've completely re-done the UI. Allowing copy & paste would mean they would need to re-implement it from scratch. Besides that, as far as I know the WP7 menus are limited to max. 4 entries so they figured out it doesn't really fit in....
yeah I feel you guys about the copy and paste even though I hardly use it, but my honest opinion about it is that microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all. The issues mentioned at the bottom of my original post pose far bigger issues than having copy and paste. But as I mentioned in my OP, I don't think MS intentionally got rid of the stuff we like, I think they tried to integrate something that is better, something for the end user instead of the the heavy user. If thats their ideal customer(everyday users), then yes, Automatic multitasking trumps the task manager style multitasking: active copy paste is useless. I guess...lol
BEGIN RANT/
On a different note, on the innovation side Android reminds me alot of the old WM. Palm/WebOS is a different beast all together. Nokia/Symbian owns majority market share even though its hardly innovative, Iphone has been largely innovative (face it...it is) and is the number 2 OS followed by WM. Image that as a marketer. There are like a million different types of WM phones made by dozens of different manufacturers and somehow they lose market share in 4-5 years to 1 phone made by 1 developer. How is that possible? There is something to be said for massive over-saturation and its effectiveness (NOKIA...I'm looking at you) but as far making hand over fist money, how can you not just look at Apple and say "genius?" 1 phone, locked down, hated by so many, number 2 marketshare in the world. I think if WM is going to get on top they have to attack Apple. Attacking Android does nothing...honestly I think pushing WM 6.5 beats android (Personal opinion) WP7 has to take those Iphone users away from apple. So they have to offer not just something similar, they have to offer something BETTER. So yeah, High level of social integration is BETTER, Simplistic design and text based smooth UI is BETTER, Stronger Hardware BETTER, Xbox integration and heavy game centric focus is BETTER. The Iphone is the enemy here. In order to beat Apple it has to be BETTER at what it does. So, we wont see 8 HTC WP7 phones every year (since there is no point considering WP7's high standards)...thats a good thing. WP7 is putting out a clear and sweeping OS that has one message WE ARE BETTER. I think the average user will be sucked away from Iphone back into Windows because Windows is totally committed to bring a user experience that is uniform across all platforms. If I have a PC and an XBox...WP7 is a no brainer. 23 Million XBox users...thats a lot of people. RANT END/
Thats all my personal opinion though. Butler youre right about not being able to set certain programs as default. As MS is using BING to search, and IE for internet etc....I don't think you'll be able to switch it to opera on the fly. But you can always just select Opera from the programs list or just tag it to HUBs and just select it from there. Although I believe that with the fact that MS has been sued recently in EU for not offering people a choice for their browsing for their PC I'm confident in saying that Opera might still have the option to set at default (as it currently does). We will see though. Its kinda a stretch to relate PC to WP7 as is because its still in rough beta.
~style1~
style1 said:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
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This makes sense. People will often require a number of features from a phone and unless it ticks those boxes extra features are not important.
"Windows Phone 7" is missing a lot of basic features. If they are not important to you, good for you, but you seem to be in two minds about that. When there are a lot of decent phone OSes on the market you shouldn't have much need to compromise.
well yeah of course, but its not like any of these features are totally missing...they've just been reinvented or reinvisioned, so to speak. I look it it this way, why do I copy and paste? Because I want to take info from one program and transfer it or send it to another. MS has determined (again, I'm sure the put some R&D into it) that most people don't even use it so much so they created a NEW system that allows you to do basically the exact same thing, take info and transfer it, without all the fuss. Its still copying and pasting. I dunno. I believe innovation something to embrace, it moves the industry foward. Because all these guys compete for our business they drive each other bigger and better. But it seems that keeping up with the old outdated ideas is all that people care about. I mean, the Iphone doesnt NEED copy and paste. It functioned just as well without it. The big problem with it was they had NO alternative to make people say oh well thats just as good. So what do they do? They add vanilla copy and paste. Consumers drive innovation in that sense. My wife for the life of her can't understand this huge hype about multitasking. She believes her Iphone is just fine. She can listen to music, she gets her push notifications when she needs them...shes a happy camper. She doesn't get it. I try to explain to her how its important, but regardless she wont get it because it doesn't fit her lifestyle. How many people does something like that matter to, honestly? I get MS' approach....it makes sense. The average consumer would rather have things be simple, would rather have things done for them; than actively doing them for themselves. The exception to this is WebOS because its driven by the idea of multitasking. And how innovative is that. The homescreen is the taskmanager. Its a great way to make the idea of actively managing open apps seem like it is something that you are in control of, not like WM or android (where you just get massive lag) where it seems like the open programs are something thats controlling you.
Different strokes for different folks though. But hey remember how many of those basic required features that the original Iphone launched with? lol Looking back it was laughable how fail that phone was, but it sold out the stores like a champ. Its not about the basic features. Its about the innovation behind it. Apple invented the wheel all over again. MS has to invent the V8.
~style1~
Personally, I was looking forward to WP7.
But:
1) No Multi-Tasking (I don't count push notifications as multi-tasking)
2) No Copy/Paste
3) No removable Storage
4) No 'Use as USB device'
Are pretty big dealbreakers for me. These were all things in favor over the iPhone (except c&p since last year), and now they're going to handicap us :|
Thanks for being a voice of reason style
sevenprx,
windows does have their own take on C&P as well as multitasking. It in fact does do both, just not in the way thats been the industry standard so people are considering it NOT there even though it clearly is. I believe you should check out engadget where they do have a few good articles and clips.
1) Copy and Paste Here (even with the misleading headline its informative)
2) multitasking HERE
3) Removable storage is a big issue. I think most will be appeased by massive 32 gig phones but alot (myself included) of people wont. But in terms of solving problems it saves a few headaches for MS in the development process. I do believe MS told us during the keynote (or somewhere during that time, I cannot remember) that developers can have internal SD for more memory, but it is kinda a bummer for me to not have removable Cards. Its basically to keep this phone as unhackable as possible.
4) No use as a USB device...this too is a killer, as I mentioned earlier I do use my phone to store info on. Its a daily thing. Since I can't access my phone through activesync it makes all this info useless. Its like they only want use USB to move photos and music...THATS IT. I'm not sure if thats the best strategy but, for those to whom this is dealbreaker for, they are probably happy as sheep with 6.5 so it won't be too much of a deal for MS. Which of course still makes the HD2 an extremely viable phone at one helluva price.
~style~
Thanks mazzarin
I'm still looking forward to WP7. It has a lot of very intriguing features and I like the look of the UI.
As far as multi-tasking goes it will work with my needs. I can alway have a webpage up in the background, I can alway have music playing in the background. Any core feature of the UI like calls, SMS, email can all run the the background and one 3rd party app. Honestly, I hardly ever use multiple 3rd party apps to begin with.
I don't use copy and paste very much. I think I can say I've used it about 5 times since I've had my device and honestly it was so much of a pain to use that a couple of those time I gave up and just wrote it down and re-typed it.
I would really live to have removable storage. I just hope phones with 32GB flash come out. I can fill 8GB pretty easily.
I use my phone as a USB device a lot just to transfer big files. This is honestly one of the biggest things I don't like.
Look, I'm all for defending Microsoft but the one thing you glossed over is the one real dealbreaker.
No copy and paste? How basic yet essential is that? If you've only used it 5 times in 5 years I don't know what you've been doing with your phone, but other people bought a phone with Outlook and Office and web browsers for a reason. Data detection is not going to let me email a paragraph or search for a sentence.
"Multitasking": No problem, pause the apps for when I come back to them. I don't have to close them myself, cool.
No USB file access: Pain in the neck, sucks for us, but if we store only files that apps on the phone handle (music, documents, etc) then at least we can still use the device as intended. It just won't be a flash drive
No removable card: Very stupid since I do actually pull out the card.. but the truth is that most people don't. MS and app developers have a much easier time knowing that the storage is always a part of the device, and they also don't have to be so scared of piracy. So it really really sucks that we can't expand storage, but at least the phone will still work.
So when you combine those last two, our main difficulty is moving files on and off the phone.. but it will sync files to our own accounts fine at least. even wirelessly. So the phone is still usable. But copy/paste? The phone is CRIPPLED without it
again, what as I said before, I actually did sit in on an conversation and demo where there same things you're saying about copy and paste were presented to the demo operators. Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS.
Honestly just like multitasking, its a non intrusive way of doing what people do anyway. And yes I have only used multitasking maybe 5 times. I honestly just don't need the feature. I mean, hell as there are millions of Iphone users what they were doing with their phones for the longest. It just isn't important to me. I use outlook, use push, I use Office and the web browsers but I never had to copy anything. I handle P&L's, I keep many office documents and I prepare powerpoint presentations as well having my phone linked to corporate accounts that I use to send this information out on a system wide level. I haven't seen the use for copy and paste because honestly I send complete documents so I only need fowarding.... Occasionally I may just copy an email account and paste it into my recipients list but WP7 is capable of doing this...I witnessed it myself.
~style1~
Very rationale styles1. I like your thinking with some valid points. I still believe that wm has been around this long because of xda and every developer and user that uses their brain to tweak and modify to each individuals liking, including ms/htc and xda developers. Taking this away, takes the dignity away from ms and xda users. i have been a long time wm user since i was a kid back in the early 80s. the ONLY reason i don't have an iphone and not jumped ship like my dad, sister, brother in law, friends is because of the features that wm has had over the years. the ability to cut & paste, the ability to use storage cards, the ability to control the phone. I use all these features. Not every day, but I use them. And it's more than 5 times in 5 years. I guarantee everybody on here, and probably yourself, would be lyng if you said just 5 times. Try 10 or 20 times, but how is your memory so good and that you can count with your fingers to just 5. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue. These simple/essential things are actually quite vital to the average xda user like myself. I've read thousands of messages on here from chainfire, to abu, to duty, to dave shaw, mskipp and to every other developer on here. They are my true heroes, they have made the wm phone viable, with dignity. For an analogy, you can drive a cadilac or a mercedes. But your gonna tweak up a hyndai or honda and tell me it's the same and gonna be better than a mercedes. If honda were gonna tweak up there car and charge 75,000 and say they are just as good, then I'm just gonna buy one. hmmm. we (ms) is competeing against iphones? are we really competing against them, or are we competing against ourselves (wm 7 vs wm 6.5/6.0/5.0...) To take away all these essentials, would be taking away life. Variety and Substance is the essential part of life. I hate e-readers, yet I don't like reading books either. However, I'd rather read a book where I can locate a page, then read off an e-reader. I think XDA developers and the common user like myself have spoken loud and clearly, there are really no winners in this case. This is not your win-win scenario......What do I know, I'm just a geeky medical doctor writing with no substance.
well I didn't originally say only five times...I said maybe 5 times. I'm not a fun user I'm mostly a heavy poweruser. But as most of the people on here I am extremely mod heavy. So yeah, I get it. But developers here will still be able to use this site for 6.5 as well as 7. People have to understand a couple things first and foremost. First, if developers don't support WP7, WP7 won't move foward. They can also support 6.5 as well as WP7 and not have to PICK SIDES. This isn't about "oh they got rid of features I need, FAIL" this is about a platform as a whole. 6.5 isn't going anywhere soon. Keep it alive but embrace the future as well. I don't like the thinking that goes into a lot of the bashing that happens. I mean if we're going to use cars for examples let me throw one out there.
I used to drive a Ford Fusion, when it rained I would turn on my wind shield wipers. Last year I upgraded to a E class Mercedes...now when it rains my windshield wipers turn themselves on. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about something so trivial as to turn the wipers on and then get them at a pace that isn't excessive or less than what current rain speed is. Its a system that reacts to whats happening around it and assumes the likely reaction.
I think thats similar to the changes WP7 is making to amend some of the issues with WM6+. But of course thats just my opinion.
I personally, however, hope that developers here don't just shun WP7 because its different and embrace it as an opportunity to develop for a new platform, increase their product visibility and most important to make revenue off of their hard work. Donations are fine but being able to actually get paid for your work makes for a new scenarios that aren't currently available to developer here at XDA and as we all know money drives innovation.
~style1~
style1 said:
Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS
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No sir, no... I don't know what your definition of 'almost' is but I know that by definition "smartlinking" only works on structured data.. phone numbers, addresses, etc. If I wanted to paste another quote from your comment right here --> there's absolutely no way for smartlinking to do that.
Copy/Paste. Why does anyone even need to be arguing and making excuses for this? It's just basic and shouldn't have had to be left out or delayed. They have so many ways to implement it
if you read my post 6 i actually talk about what I saw in a live demo...actually I'll just quote it for ease of reading(I guess i will use copy and paste just for the hell of it....lol):
"microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all."
So yeah, I agree with you 100%...its not true copy and paste. It is however an alternative. And I know no matter what microsoft does, if they miss one step it comes out to be a deal breaker. But come-on, This is pushing it. I honestly sat there and watched almost (again I say almost) every copy and paste feature put to test, and the only thing it cannot do (copy from browser to insert elsewhere) ends up being like the worlds biggest issue. I have brought up some other FAAAAAAAR bigger issues, as well as provided some good reasoning and insight as to a lot of other system functions and we keep coming back to this extremely small issue. I honestly didn't know that so many people copy and paste from the browser. According to MS, people just don't do that, but apparently all the people who "do do that" are all on XDA...lol. But I guess that makes you right, though, people should be able to copy from the browser and paste elsewhere. Unfortunately WP7 won't support that at launch. What else can I say?
~style1~
No they don't provide an alternative, they provide alternatives to some use cases. No, copy from browser to insert elsewhere isn't the only use case, there have been numerous examples I won't copy here, you're just not paying attention to what people say.
No there aren't bigger issues as many of those can be resolved by hacking. C&P can't.
I personally find copy and paste indispensable and use it daily. One of the places I use it is to copy the website address and paste it into my mail and share it with my friends. Sometimes, I also copy of some useful information from the website to save it into my note application for future references. Then there are some forums that I visit daily where the only way to reply with quote is to highlight and copy the portion of the post first. Bottom line is copy and paste is completely necessary. MS has not done the research thoroughly or given it enough thoughts IMO.
As to multitasking, I almost always have more than one third party programs running. One of the scenarios is to listen to my favourite internet radio (which are oversea stations sometimes) while reading my 1000+ entries in my RSS google reader newsreader application.
Let's hope MS read these posts and come to their senses.
Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.
You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
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This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations
can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind
Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................
I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!
Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach
yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.
anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
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Otherwise known as prison
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.
I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.
ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.
If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy
tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
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Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
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I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.
chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.
This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.
I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.
I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.
nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code
To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!
I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.
What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.
The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy
I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.
AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.
From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.
dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.
bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.
Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.
smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Try this, you may like it.
http://blog.walshie.me/2011/04/04/so-who-wants-windows-phone-updates-like-right-now/
if you're having problems unlocking your device, you should really hit the chevron thread. But for the most part, any issues with the unlock process on my end have been fixed.
As far as updating, you should check a few areas that have a nice update step for everyone and it works for anyone whose tried so far.
Then there is the option of actually waiting for your specific device to update via carrier.
It gets tiring to see the I'm tired of windows phone because it hasn't updated even though you like the experience...it's the first update...the very first one at that. Take a look at android updating, or even the god awful windows mobile updating
Updater
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this. It's brand new, but, given who it came from it should work.
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First update errors were caused by Samsung not MS.
Second update is being held up by the carriers.
I have an unlocked/unbranded samsung omnia 7 and haven't gotten the update, but I don't care because it is only a minor update and I know it is coming. Be patient bro.
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you on this. Both Android and iOS got grief regarding simple features. MS should have learnt from their mistakes, as WP7 was release years after these 2.
Any way i am now running Mango, and i have to say this is a Massive leap forward for the OS. If i had not have invested so much into iOS i would move over and just use WP7!
As for my previous post, i was venting my frustration. Which i think i am allowed to do and have an opinion. Granted the update only brought copy and paste and a few other minor features but these are massive features. Especially when using the device as a business device.
FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus (cause she liked my HD7) and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead... However, this same person had no problems accepting my HD2 as a gift over the new phone, but I didn't give it cause my mom didn't want to pay more by using 2 different carriers and no family plan.
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
It was the perfect case of "I don't care how it looks, I care what it can do." as far as I'm concerned.
But of course I'm sure you will think this was only an outlier situation
N8ter said:
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead...
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
Dj21o said:
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
eric12341 said:
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Just tried a short video and it has the share options to Facebook, SkyDrive and your email addresses so it is indeed working in the Mango beta.
(My video successfully uploaded to facebook, NEAT!)
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Then:
Are you able to send a short video to others with MMS? What about more than one picture at a time in a MMS?
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Then in reply to that:
At this stage 'Messaging' is not an option in Mango, just email, facebook and skydrive.
You can only send one picture at a time in an MMS from WP7 Mango (can you send more in a single MMS on other platforms?).
EDIT: or rather i can't find a way to do more than one picture in a single MMS...there may be a way
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So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
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I guess the people that care about that would be upset then.
People send videos through e-mail and MMS all the time...
MrNetrix said:
E-mail video? Since when do people e-mail or even MMS videos? My feature phone can definitely do neither.
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Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
To your first part of the post (not quoted): Free on Contract blackberries and cheap iPhone 3GSes can do all this, and more. That's not even comparing current WP7 OS/Devices to Android and iOS devices that were released in the same timeframe.
I'm not going to get baited into another heated forum battle, so... last response to you
If your only retort is "who does <something," then you've already defeated your own argument. A majority of cell phone users are on Feature and Dumb Phones. Millions and millions of people utilize the video MMS feature on those phones. And feature phones have email clients as well (some having somewhat decent HTML support, even).
N8ter said:
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
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No, I was just unaware that mine was able to since I never even had the remote need to.
N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Then:
Then in reply to that:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
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keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
eric12341 said:
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
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And how is your grandmother who has a feature phone going to view that facebook video from her phone when she's at the flea market lookign for deals? Everyone wants their kids on Facebook. Yea. Lol... More people share on YouTube than Facebook. You can make YouTube Videos Privates. But more cell phone users are on Feature Phones and if you want to share short video clips with people on dumb or feature phones you cannot depend on either Facebook or YouTube. That is the issue. The issue is not what you can do on your phone, or wha tyou prefer. The issue is the OS being designed in a way that limits communications with people who have not yet migrated to smartphone platforms... Do you understand it NOW?
Again, if your only retort is "I found the quality lacking," then you've defeated your own argument.
Tethering?
Mobile Hotspot?
What about better Exchange Policy support so Exchange Servers stop declining lots of WP7 devices from connecting to networks that iPhones and Symbian devices have no issues connecting to?
File System Support so we can use a File Manager and manage files on the phone? And more easily/faster bulk copy media of dispirate/varied types to the device?
Outlook Synching from Zune Client, and Documents? For those of us who do not have SharePoint/Exchange but don't want to put confidential contact information/documents in the cloud? For those who don't know... Windows Live (Hotmail - which shares the same base login for Live) has a bad history when it comes to Account hacking/hijacking.
A notification tray so that you can see what you got while you were asleep or your phone was silenced/put away (I'm talking beyond the Social notifications pane, which only covers stuff you can already see in the Facebook/Twitter app, etc.) without hopping into several applications? (swipe left from Home, App List. Swipe Right, Notification Cache).
Does the Video Camera settings save in Mango, at least?
Only loosely related, but it would be nice if they allowed us to suscribe more than one RSS feed in Windows Live...
DLNA support at the platform level, not just from specific phone models/OEMs? Every decent Android device has this, and the iPhone has AirPlay.
Turn by Turn is still pretty bad in Mango, and I think I've already mentioned it but I still can't get over the insane feature drop-off from WM to WP7 IRT Bing Maps... It's still borderline unbelievable to me...
Universal Search?
Has Codec support been expanded? If you email someone a WMV and their phone doesn't support that CODEC, well, too bad?
I can continue
N8ter said:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
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You can't possibly be serious. Using the capabilities of a beta, that is not even close to feature complete, as proof that the finished release of the update won't include MMS video? That just boggles the mind.
N8ter said:
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
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How so? I thought this thread was about WP7 users being "fed up" with the OS. Given that, it seems more to me like telling people who own a PC, but aren't very happy with Win7, to have patience because a new version of the OS is coming. That may or may not be good advice, but it is a more correct analogy.
MartyLK said:
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
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I agree with you 110%. Android is open source and all about customizations, if you choose to do so. I know the GSII is coming to Sprint in August, but I'm not sure if I can hold back with all the power that device has. It runs quite well and the most I would do is underclock the phone to conserve my battery. I have fully customized my Evo, but I cannot sync my emails, my data has to be turned off, and I need a task killer all the time or my battery dies really quick.
With WP7, you don't need to worry about those features, and you get free applications *cough*. I mean, I hate having to go through all of the troubles to get these things to work properly, but I love the variety that I have.
WP7 runs sooo smooth and there is over 500 features being applied in Mango, and I really want simplicity and that beautiful UI.
What do you think is more important?
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
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Please not another thread like that. -_-
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
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yes you will regret it , if you still want these features :
1- Bluetooth file transfer
2- ability to make folder
3 - icon view
4- rooting device
5- backing up ROM
6- backing up apps
7- much much more free apps and games
8- if you google around , you find paid apps for free
9- widgets
and alot more , but these are the most important features that are missing in WP7
If you think I helped , please hit thanks
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
arturobandini said:
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
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Who said? Most sane WP7 users can acknowledge its not perfect but why is it this forum is filled mainly with threads criticizing WP7, mostly from people who dont use it? If they dont like it, why not post in forums of the OS they do like?
Thats the problem, this thread will be filled with posts by the usual haters spouting the same BS. By this time, 1 year later, shouldnt they have moved on to the platform that suits them? Yet any good point of WP7 is shouted down and discarded. You say people here arent ready to judge WP7 honestly, the haters are just as guilty of not being able to be honest and admit any positive in WP7.
---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------
arturobandini said:
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
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I rest my case.
Why are people keep comparing a 5+ yr old OS to a 1 yr OS is beyond me. We all know WP still have some growing to do. The rate it's growing is alot faster than we all anticipated.
I didn't mean to start any trouble... I really am just curious. I read a lot on engaget of windows 7 phones being efficient. My main question is what I want to do. I guess I'll stick to android and get the prime, and in 2 years rethink my options.
nevermind................
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
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agree with dkp1977...What an another troll-bait thread.
LOL,please close this thread man....there are dozens of similar thread out there.
lol..."troll bait"
Listen, I'm a former Windows Mobile user who can shed some light. When my HTC Tilt got long in the tooth, I spent some time on borrowed Android devices. My theory was that the new Windows Phone 7 would be too locked down, too much like the iPhone, and that I'd be moving to Android instead. I loved to tinker and try to get as much out of my Windows Mobile device as possible, so figured I'd want something more powerful.
I mostly tinkered on an HTC Aria, which probably isn't a great comparison being a budget Android device, but I was modestly impressed. It honestly felt somewhat like an upgraded Windows Mobile device. Flexible, lots of options, etc.
When I was finally ready to upgrade, my wife was pregnant and I had a second job. I found myself without time to flash ROMs to my Windows Mobile device, and so I'd be stuck on a ROM I was dissatisfied with for weeks before having time to sit down and flash another one. When things didn't work on my Windows Mobile device, I would get frustrated and give up. I had stopped surfing, tinkering, installing, customizing, flashing...in other words, I started to use my HTC Tilt as a phone only, and maybe for light text messaging.
As such, I decided on a WP7 instead of Android. Boy oh boy oh boy do I NOT regret that decision. I have never ONCE looked back, and pity the fella who is still on his HTC Aria that I had borrowed. I have a dozen different hotmail accounts (because they allow custom domains and I run some businesses) and an exchange account, and they work flawlessly. The integration of contacts, calendar, messaging, mail...it's beyond helpful. I don't have to start a Facebook app, a search app, a navigation app. I can just talk to my phone to perform a search of any kind, and the browsing experience is top-notch. Facebook is right there, "merging" duplicate contacts is a joy, and I've found just about every app I think I'd ever need (granted, I moved from Windows Mobile, so it's not like I'm missing an app I ever had on another device).
Bottom line for me: if I were still a tinkerer, I may have gone with Android and would recommend Android to tinkerers (although you can definitely tinker with a WP7, if you wanted to). However, if you find yourself too busy for tinkering or just want more out of life than staring at a 4" screen and making an OS look and work the way you want, get the Windows Phone. If you want a robust smartphone that just works well, performs so many tasks natively that you really don't care about your app count, doesn't even need customizing because it looks great and performs well, get a Windows Phone.
Not only have I not looked back, but I have converted fully 5 non-techie people to Windows Phone with a sixth (the Aria fella) well on the way!
PS: My mom, unfortunately, snagged an Android device (not sure the name, but it's T-Mobile 4"-ish Samsung device) because the salesperson told her that "Android has millions of apps and Windows Phone has hardly any, and apps are what matter." I could wring that little egghead's neck, because now I'm constantly getting calls from my Mom asking how to do things on her phone, and telling me she "hates this thing" and is "confused."
I just don't know why people who genuinely hate the OS continue to come to this section... I went from WinMo, to Android, used an iPhone for a while as well, and can tell you that WinPhone is the best there is, especially at its young age. These people who want to own a phone to have to flash it weekly, or daily, can keep their Androids.
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Thanks your guy's insight. and you can tell i'm not a troll due to the fact if you look at my other topics started, I'm switching to verizon soon.
On the side note, for you wp7 people, do you guys go here for all your needs? like when I had an iphone i went to blah blah site, android is xda.
And I do flash A LOT. I almost wnat to break the habit. I liked cydia back on the iphone, I want the OS to be perfect, but if the apps arent, I want to fix that (thats what jailbreakign did me for the iphone)
I guess the main problem with windows 7 phones for me right now are:
No LTE? why not. If I'm going to Verizon shouldn't I get a LTE phone?
Pros:
I feel that it will give me "my life back". I'm not addicted to flashing phones, but it definately sucks that I probably send 30 mintes - hour a day scanning these forums about stuff and specs baout the "newest" phone. I see that wp7 phones aren't realized every 3 months, causing you not to regret your purchase.
Another question I have for the people who follow WP7 phones is, when are they going to release a new one for Verizon? Or ATT. But I think we are going to switch to Verizon.
mdcykkk9 said:
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
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What do you mean by making phone calls and browse the internet? Are you saying the browse cause it doesn't have 4g?
And phone calls: why is that?
All I can say is I moved from WinMo-Android-WP7-Android.
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
I am one of those who wanted to use MS latest platform but discovered it's really not for me. Because even if the concept is really good and different, it's very limiting.
I wait to make my final judgement once I upgrade to Mango.
I think WP7 is perfect entry level OS, for people who are not crazy about the most advanced features. For less "business" or "pro" users it's perfect. It's for youngsters and people who don't need much but like reliability and simplicity.
Otherwise stay with Android because it's ahead in every regard.
So ask yourself why do you want to switch and what you expect from your future device.
@doministry: Moved to Android, yet still in the windows phone forums? Interesting.
I love these threads, though. They all end up the same in the end.
What most of us simpletons here, who are unable to fathom the depths of the advanced, Skynet-like Android, like about Windows Phone is that it's something new, something fresh. It's not the same ol' same ol' we've been accustom to from iphone and Android. Not that either of those two are bad. Actually, the opposite.
But, there's not really anything new there per se. Microsoft decided to go against the "Tried and True" and do something different. We will see in the long run if this pays off. But, every now and again, something comes along and changes our perceptions on what should be, the status quo as it were.
You ask about coming here for all your info. Well, come here in addition to going elsewhere. The problem here is that most are nerds and geeks thus they dig into things that most others wouldn't. Not many people care if you can reroute power from your phone to the dilithium crystals, and bleed some of that power out through the main deflector array. See? Nerd.
But, here at xda, if your phone doesn't do that then it's a failure. Let me clarify that. It's a failure to the Android fans whose phones are the best thing since Bell called Watson from the next room. There are actually quite a few of us that appreciate what Windows Phone has to offer, how far it's come, and how far it can potentially go.
Stick around for awhile though and you will find those who are quite informative and constructive. But, you'll also find those who come into every thread like this to tell you how much they dislike/hate/loathe/want to vomit on windows phone. Strangely, like moths to a flame, however, they continue to be drawn here. Which leaves me confused and makes me cry inside.
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
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The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
morpheuszg said:
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
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In Android thread I am visiting there are tons of people who don't like it and it's not a problem for anyone really.
The other way round is not worse.
The scheme is like this:
WP7 lovers: "if you want to endlessly hack your phone and accept these lags, use Android"
WP7 critics: "we still miss this and that...."
What is really hard to understand for some is that some people use both platforms on regular basis and can really COMPARE them head to head. And this is the question here, COMPARISON. Times has changed, users are not devoted to one thing in their life anymore and are not treating their choices like a new religion. WP7 is still starting and appeared in a world of huge COMPETITION. If you don't know, the competition and comparisons makes things better, not the closed circle of believers. And that's why MS opened these polls where you vote for the feature you'd love to see.
Some people here are more MS than the company itself.
Hi GManLynx,
In my opinion Wyn6 and Dom both have valid points to make, Dom has voiced the fact that although WP7 is very capable as a daily driver (and it is my preferred O/S) it does seem to be limited for those of us that need specialised apps/functionality to be satisfied with our chosen platform. In the same light Wyn6 has it spot on that these forums do tend to be very geek based and arguments about granular functionality do get out of hand and turn the thread away from its original point, this thread will go that way in the end i promise...............keep an eye on it, its really quite amusing.
Anyway here is my penneth worth:
I have originally come from 6.5 where the flashing was both a delight and at the same time a chore, i then found myself being drawn to Android for the exact same reasoning and that was that i liked to play with and customise my phone to my liking. The hardware however at the time did not do it for me though and i found (as most people now realise) that with Android the hardware is the key for a great phone experience. This is now possible with all of the great droid handsets and the the apps available make the customisation side an absolute pleasure, although decent application coding is still an issue from time to time along with the possibility that the performance of any custom ROM you choose is entirely dependant on the trial and error application addition basis that 6.5 required. In my opinion this will always be the case with an open source platform.
Now with WP7 you get less chance to customise (although it is entirely possible) but the O/S is rather solid due to the fact that it is closed and that the apps that are released have been vetted so as not to afftect the functionality of the phone too much. This is also a plus point when it comes to the hardware that is required as you dont need the leading edge of available hardware to run the buttery smooth O/S. Improvements from Mango have made this even better in my opinion and have opened the door to better development opportunities and eventually better apps than are available at the moment, however i do stress the word eventually. WP7 is still very young and MS have some great things in the pipe that should make the O/S differ greatly from others......but again this will take time.
I could easily recommend droid or WP7 for you and i think you would be pleased, at the end of the day you will as Dom said have to decide what level of functionality vs customisation that you would prefer and go with that one. (this is easily done as all phone carriers now offer the 30 day cool down period, so you can evaluate both properly)
Try everything you can think of to aide your decision but most importantly have fun deciding, i know i did
Kind regards,
Creamy