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A Wider View on the Future of WP7 - Windows Phone 7 General

This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.

I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.

I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.

I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.

nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code

To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!

I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.

What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.

The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy

I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.

AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!

I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.

Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!

Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.

From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.

dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.

dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.

bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.

Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.

smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.

Related

Yeah windows phone 7 is now reality its shown i mean is being showing right now....
Awesome
[16/2/2010] Hello, All as you all might have know that there are different hubs in Windows Phone 7 series. So what do you think about this hub idea? To what extent did you liked it, Share your thoughs opinions etc... Those people who dont know what is this hub, here is a quick intro :
"Windows Phone 7 Series creates an unrivaled set of integrated experiences on a phone through Windows Phone hubs. Hubs bring together related content from the Web, applications and services into a single view to simplify common tasks. Windows Phone 7 Series includes six hubs built on specific themes reflecting activities that matter most to people."
There are total 6 hubs namely:
1. People
2. Pictures
3. Games
4. Music + Video
5. Marketplace
6. Office
Also what is you opinion about the new marketplace hub for windows phone 7 series, its looking great here.
Latest update via techz.in
4:08PM Everything not explained today will be available on the MIX next month, might be more exicting than the MWC2010.
4:08PM David Christopher from AT&T is now talking about how he thinks Windows Phone will be great and how AT&T will help launching Windows Phone 7.
4:10PM Now Olaf Swantee from Orange on stage. Orange released the first ever smartphone to run Windows Mobile in the US.
4:12PM “Windows Phone 7 will not be just a product, but this is a whole new way to work with our partners.”
4:14PM Steve Ballmer is now talking about how ‘7′ might be their lucky number. Windows 7 was great and he hopes that Windows Phone 7 is just as great, or even better.
4:15PM “Windows Phone 7 Series will be available this holiday season, 2010.”
4:16PM “And with that, I want to wrap up. We hope you enjoy the conference.”
4:17PM Now time for questions, trying to keep up with those, but will be difficult!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Questions on the conference:
Question: “Other developers provide free software, will Microsoft ever stop charging a license fee?”
Answer: We are a software company, not a hardware provider. We sell software, not the hardware, that’s our business model. (Short: No)
Question: “If you want to provide consistency to the device, how are you gong to allow partners to differentiate themselves?”
Answer: Consistency in the OS can coexist with different applications in the operation. Partners will be able to divers themselves by making different applications to add in the operating system. (Steve Ballmer) I got that same question when we went from Dos to Windows, we brought more consistency and people thought it wouldn’t allow partners to differentiate themselves. Look now, how many different PC’s are sold, not one of them is equal!
Question: “Will you support Flash 10.1 in any way on Windows Phone 7?”
Answer: Out of the box Windows Phone 7 will not support Flash. (Steve Ballmer) WE have NO OBJECTION against Flash, it’s just that it’s not ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those who cant stream it live coz of slow internet can read Live minute to minute coverage here.

Well as I can see, no multitasking, no cab installation, even no file explorer.... that thing is just for the consumers.

very bad ...they have should included all this in the current windows mobile...

Nice Iphone

What about the windows 7 OS? This looks like "project pink" which I really dont care about.

So, all rumors are correct. You also have to use the Zune software. Well, as for the interface, it's better than iPhone.

Lots of disappointments
Anywyas now Steve Ballmer is back on stage..

I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5

ceesheim said:
I think I gonna stay a long time on wm6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced

But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?

Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~

Actually you are right in questioning that point. It hasn't been mentioned at all! Furthermore because the tiles are 'live', some form of multitasking must be present, since 'Hubs' can be added later it is safe to assume those 'Hubs' will also be capable of having updated tiles. It can just be that there is a central 'update service' where you need to register your application to and so it will udate, but it can also be there is some form of multitasking.
Also there has been completely nothing about restrictions compared to Windows Mobile. Even more than that, when at the end questions where asked Steve Ballmer answered about the ability to develop applications for it.
So without further information I see absolutely nothing that restricts this operating system more than WinMo 6.5.x.
pilgrim011 said:
But why are so dissapointed? I haven't heard anything about lack of multitasking or any other restriction when comparing to WM 6.5? Did I miss something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can like the interface or hate it, but nothing has been mentioned about developing applications or anything.
This is a sum of what we do know:
- New UI
- Zune Software Integrated
- Live Tiles
- 'Hubs' that connect to multiple sites
- You can develop applications for it (and maybe 3rd party 'Hubs')
Here is what we don't know:
- Nothing about multi-tasking
- Nothing about applications on the device
Here is what we expect:
- Applications from WinMo 6.5.x will not work, as mentioned 'a new set of tools for developing will be ready for our partners soon'.

jagan2 said:
+1 Although i will be sticked with wm 6.5.3 i really wish that we keep getting some new builds but microsoft may stop as wm 7 announced
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 although 6.5.5,
NO, of course I'm gonna try 7 series........... (BMW ;-)

style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
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this sounds so iphonish! Of course we WANT to change it even if it's already working properly. if I want a simply but working UI then I can switch back to my old Nokia phone with a proprietary UI on which you can't even change colors.....
Sure MS need to look at the mass market and introduce a new user experience, but hopefully they still leave their OS customizeable like before (or even further)
Besides that I'm very curious about the prof./business edition of WM 7. Because business people won't need all this facebook, zune, xbox fanciness....

WM7 looks pretty nice, looking forward for the new devices. I love my ZuneHD, now with phone... Amazing

We have to wait for more info. What I heard in that presentation is that WM6.5 will be developped side by side with WM7, don't know for how long. So I can assume that WM6.5 will be the bussiness version and WM7 iPhone version. If this is the case I will stick to 6.5 too. Facebook and other social networks and what I saw in presentations are useless for me. SenseUI already integrates mails with SMS and agenda and this is all I need so far.

style1 said:
Good times. I think the worst thing that can happen here is for purist (us) to leap to conclusions about what the new OS does and doesn't do without any valid information to support it. This OS is still 5-7 months away from hitting your ear and its not like they demo'd the device in its entirety yet. So instead of saying "No this No that..." or "oh its like the Iphone" lets wait and see. You've waited this long, no point in jumping ship till we see what this phone can really do. I own a Zune HD and I'm extremely happy with it....this OS looks similar so expect it to take full advantage of those snapdragons and Tegra chipsets. Don't sell M$ short yet...The Iphone and Android proved how its possible to run a tightly integrated App store, WM6+ showed how its possible for the end user to run its own app store (this site as well as others) its a fine line M$ has to walk with 7 and its all about pleasing the majority. Plus think of things this way; why do we need 10 different lock screen apps, 9 music player apps, 15 Contacts apps, 100 Homescreen replacement apps, 5 calendar Apps, 10000 basic Tweak apps...etc? Its because Winmo was bland, terrible white screens, slow loading, and generally outdated and plain ugly. This doesn't look to be the case now. If M$ gets it right (which its looking like they are going for gold) then you won't need it.
To prove the point...(and I hate to mention it but) the Iphone, simple UI and it just works, so now the user only has to focus on what Apps do they feel like downloading as opposed to (us) who have to think or find apps that replace basic system functions and screens. The Moral is, when you do it right the user doesn't have to focus on making it functional only making it personal. That seems to be the route M$ is taking here. We'll see when all is said and done. But lets just be objective about this whole thing...we wanted change we got it, now we gotta see if its worth it
~style~
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We need all of those things because each of is different. Granted you are righ that this in part to the lack of updating of WiMo but we are all individuals. Each of us have our own preference of what we want out of our devices and forums like this fufill these needs. For example, I may like the pure power of the HD2 but hate the homescreen. There are options out there like WAD, Homescreen++, andriokid amoung others. My point is that we all dont want to be in put the box that "this phone will do everything you want" becuase the fact of the matter is that can never happen. So give us power and we will take it from there.

Each and every feature of wp (Windows Phone) 7 is rocking. I was only disappointed of the lack of multitasking but after a good explaination by kilzone i can now show more love to wp 7 . Great ui now the phone will be more than for calling.

i the the day the first picture and think... "Oh no its a Zune" :-(
I hope the Professional Edition will look like a Phone.

ladies and gentleman... the Microsoft iPhone. social-centric UI for newbies, no customizations, no old appz...
holy crap
android here I come

I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times. And maybe only 1 of those times isn't supported by current WP7. I think I was trying to copy a selected joke off the internet and send it in a text to someone. Is that really a deal breaker? REALLY? I can't copy and paste in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I can't multitask in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I don't have access to the file system so this phone sucks? lol This is getting out of hand. I'm not gonna lie, after seeing it in person I want to give a few thoughts:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
2) MS isn't just forgoing certain aspects, they are giving you something they perceive is BETTER(and they could be wrong). And I get to thinking about this for a minute. I'm running an Acer S2000, I don't have much problems with running multiple apps at the same time but If I go back to my old Touch HD, After running maybe 4-5 apps at the same time(hell just one 2-3 apps provided one of them is google maps), I start to experience extreme slowdown in the device so now I'm forced to use the task manager and close out apps. This is everyday stuff for us, no biggie. But to the everyday end-consumer its pretty tough and annoying concept to grasp. So why shouldn't the system do it for you? Why shouldn't the system recognize the fact that you just got an email with a phone number and that by clicking on the phone number you either want to add it as a contact or call the number? Why? Is a very important question. People ask why are some of us defending it to the death, I ask why are certain people so unwilling to accept change? Its not like WM6+ is dead...
3) its not an iphone clone. Hell, Android and WebOS has multitasking, I guess they are WM-clones... Its such a stupid concept. It looks nothing like the Iphone and it doesn't act anything like the Iphone. But you gotta give Apple some credit, they know what people want and they provide it, thats how you go from the bottom of the hill to the top in 4 quick years. The Iphone reinvented what people use a phone for. Its simple and intuitive (just press what you want) WM is going for that same lot of people. If everyone from XDA didn't buy WP7, MS wouldn't even break a sweat because it know it will gain far more everyday users than it will lose from powerusers. Powerusers will stay where they are, but look at the population of the world with Tweet, facebook, myspace, etc. You don't think some of them are salivating at the mouth to get to this powerhouse? I wish MS would have just flat out said, "you wanna hack phones and tinker with system files, this phone isn't for you, go suck it XDA" it would have been so much easier for people to take
So look at the positive
Developers (which i have to believe are the life blood of WM and THIS WEBSITE...unless you're a leech in which case no need to respond) No more need to spend you precious time building beautiful apps and not get paid for it(if it were the case A_C would be one rich dude by now). I like the idea of the marketplace as the only place to get apps. I mean when people think about how many people take innovation for granted on this site. Show up, find something new, download someones work...not leave a message of thanks, not donate etc....just poof gone. Thats complete and utter crap. Devs should get paid for their work, free download with a set trial period is an amazing idea and will definitely go a long way to seeing 1) quality developers getting most of the service 2) quality apps drive the marketplace to further innovation. This is a all around plus for the end user and developers.
Built in memory. I think is a plus. Now people can argue the contrary but this is more of a personal thing for me. Plus when you think of the end user, it only works out for the better. Give me 32GB and I'm fine. Hell I haven't come close to maxing out the same 4 gig I've had for the past 3-4 years.
Everything is better than Windows media player. I must say, I use my phone for music a lot (Jaybird bluetooth FTW) and I must say the Zune experience is amazing (I also have a Zune) and its just beautiful. Gone are the days when I copy songs onto my phone and I end up with Unknown song 1-18 by unknown artist. Zune desktop is head and shoulders above WM and Itunes. Hell you can search more music by and artist you have on your phone, listen to songs and download them str8 to the phone with the Zune Pass. I get 10 free songs a month to keep, and can listen to anything I want anytime for $15 a month. Thats an awesome deal considering Itunes is 99 cents per song and you don't have the ability to listen to anything you want anytime you want.
Info on the go, I like the hubs...I love the hubs. I wish i used social networking sites..lol. Honestly the amount of detail that goes into the total system integration of social networking is sheer madness. Your photos update with photos that people post on their facebook?!?!?! WTF? Thats insane. Its quite ridiculous how far they went, but if you care about that, and a lot of people do, then this is the ultimate device. You don't need to launch twinkini or whatever twitter app to see whats going on, you only need to look through your contacts. Thats awesome
MS Office, I never used anything but XLS files personally but I'm looking at the way its integrated (even though they didn't get too in depth) and it looks great. It looks clean (METRO UI) and it looks easy to use. I can't wait to get some pinch to zoom action going. Powerpoint presentations should be a breeze as well.
XBOX HUB, sheer awesomeness. I don't have an Xbox(PS3 FTW) but Linking it all together they way they have is nothing short of innovative and awesome. Give me an Xperia X3 with a PS3 Integration and I'll love you forever. Also a big shout out goes to the game development. Graphics are seriously on par with PSP quality. It quite amazing.
I once said:
"its(WP7) not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation..."
I still stand by that after MIX10. I won't bash WP7 and I will defend it because I believe it is that innovative, I believe it is a game changer. For all the complaining there hasn't been a congruent amount of love spread so I will be that guy even if the flame gets ridiculous. So yeah, MIX10 was amazing, got robbed, won some money, got married and divorced (I kid) it was a great experience, something that watching it on video cannot give justice to.
That said I will give a few of my small personal beefs.
1) The phone handles multitasking in a way that closes programs when the system needs the resources, why don't we have control over this? Having the ability to manually close programs is important...should be an option. Assuming the system doesn't have some genius way of making me happy with its multitasking...this could be a problem. Also, with the spec given, how the hell is this system running out of resources?
2) SD cards aren't supported. Eh, with enough built in memory this isn't a problem to most but, I know some that have maxed out their Iphones/Ipod touch. It would be nice to have an expandable option
3) Compatiblity issues, How am I supposed to share files with my phone to my PC if I cannot access activesync? Do I email the file to myself then open it on my PC? There better be some answer for this.
4) Also I use my current WM phone as a thumbdrive alot. I just store stuff on it to keep with me and put on my work PC and vice versa. Without activesync, memory cards, or access to system files how is this accomplished?
~style1~
ALRIGHT those are my thoughts, I tried to play both sides of the fence even though I'm completely biased..lol. I do bring up some interesting issues with WP7...what are your thoughts? Also sorry for another long thread

style1 said:
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times.
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That's nice, but what's the rationale for not including it for anyone? MS says, "Our research indicates that people don't use copy and paste." That scares me because it is very Apple-esque. I hate the philosophy of "we know what works best for you, so why don't you shut the eff up and not ask any questions, OK? Just do what you're told and play in our nice little walled in garden and everything will be fine." That Apple mentality has spread to MS it seems. I don't often look at or take pictures on my phone, either, but does that mean those capabilities should be removed? No, they should be there in the event that I do want to use them. What's the harm in leaving in copy and paste?
And if I can get good battery life on my TP2 with multitasking, why can't they coax it out of the shiny new WP7? How does Palm do it?
I store all sorts of crap on my phone, so they better have 32GB versions available and let me use it as USB storage.
Also, I heard you won't be able to set different programs as the default (say, Opera instead of IE). Which is another ridiculous restriction and just shows that MS has gone overboard with control, just like Apple. And that's just the reason I don't have an iPod or iPhone.
So if things don't change, I'm off to Android.
Engadget, by the way, has been actually quite balanced with WP7 versus their coverage of WM6. And prior to the all bad stuff we learned at MIX10, they were hyping it quite a bit themselves.

after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?

I'm feeling kinda torn with regards to WP7s. On the one hand I love the UI and the integration, on the other I hate the lock down. Not just the software lock down but also the hardware lock down. It's what I hated about the Iphone, and it's what I hate about WP7s. Granted, there's gonna be more variety with WP7s, but it's constrained variety.
When I first saw WP7s I was certain my next phone would be with that OS. Now I'm not so sure...
Regards

havox22 said:
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
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They've completely re-done the UI. Allowing copy & paste would mean they would need to re-implement it from scratch. Besides that, as far as I know the WP7 menus are limited to max. 4 entries so they figured out it doesn't really fit in....

yeah I feel you guys about the copy and paste even though I hardly use it, but my honest opinion about it is that microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all. The issues mentioned at the bottom of my original post pose far bigger issues than having copy and paste. But as I mentioned in my OP, I don't think MS intentionally got rid of the stuff we like, I think they tried to integrate something that is better, something for the end user instead of the the heavy user. If thats their ideal customer(everyday users), then yes, Automatic multitasking trumps the task manager style multitasking: active copy paste is useless. I guess...lol
BEGIN RANT/
On a different note, on the innovation side Android reminds me alot of the old WM. Palm/WebOS is a different beast all together. Nokia/Symbian owns majority market share even though its hardly innovative, Iphone has been largely innovative (face it...it is) and is the number 2 OS followed by WM. Image that as a marketer. There are like a million different types of WM phones made by dozens of different manufacturers and somehow they lose market share in 4-5 years to 1 phone made by 1 developer. How is that possible? There is something to be said for massive over-saturation and its effectiveness (NOKIA...I'm looking at you) but as far making hand over fist money, how can you not just look at Apple and say "genius?" 1 phone, locked down, hated by so many, number 2 marketshare in the world. I think if WM is going to get on top they have to attack Apple. Attacking Android does nothing...honestly I think pushing WM 6.5 beats android (Personal opinion) WP7 has to take those Iphone users away from apple. So they have to offer not just something similar, they have to offer something BETTER. So yeah, High level of social integration is BETTER, Simplistic design and text based smooth UI is BETTER, Stronger Hardware BETTER, Xbox integration and heavy game centric focus is BETTER. The Iphone is the enemy here. In order to beat Apple it has to be BETTER at what it does. So, we wont see 8 HTC WP7 phones every year (since there is no point considering WP7's high standards)...thats a good thing. WP7 is putting out a clear and sweeping OS that has one message WE ARE BETTER. I think the average user will be sucked away from Iphone back into Windows because Windows is totally committed to bring a user experience that is uniform across all platforms. If I have a PC and an XBox...WP7 is a no brainer. 23 Million XBox users...thats a lot of people. RANT END/
Thats all my personal opinion though. Butler youre right about not being able to set certain programs as default. As MS is using BING to search, and IE for internet etc....I don't think you'll be able to switch it to opera on the fly. But you can always just select Opera from the programs list or just tag it to HUBs and just select it from there. Although I believe that with the fact that MS has been sued recently in EU for not offering people a choice for their browsing for their PC I'm confident in saying that Opera might still have the option to set at default (as it currently does). We will see though. Its kinda a stretch to relate PC to WP7 as is because its still in rough beta.
~style1~

style1 said:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
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This makes sense. People will often require a number of features from a phone and unless it ticks those boxes extra features are not important.
"Windows Phone 7" is missing a lot of basic features. If they are not important to you, good for you, but you seem to be in two minds about that. When there are a lot of decent phone OSes on the market you shouldn't have much need to compromise.

well yeah of course, but its not like any of these features are totally missing...they've just been reinvented or reinvisioned, so to speak. I look it it this way, why do I copy and paste? Because I want to take info from one program and transfer it or send it to another. MS has determined (again, I'm sure the put some R&D into it) that most people don't even use it so much so they created a NEW system that allows you to do basically the exact same thing, take info and transfer it, without all the fuss. Its still copying and pasting. I dunno. I believe innovation something to embrace, it moves the industry foward. Because all these guys compete for our business they drive each other bigger and better. But it seems that keeping up with the old outdated ideas is all that people care about. I mean, the Iphone doesnt NEED copy and paste. It functioned just as well without it. The big problem with it was they had NO alternative to make people say oh well thats just as good. So what do they do? They add vanilla copy and paste. Consumers drive innovation in that sense. My wife for the life of her can't understand this huge hype about multitasking. She believes her Iphone is just fine. She can listen to music, she gets her push notifications when she needs them...shes a happy camper. She doesn't get it. I try to explain to her how its important, but regardless she wont get it because it doesn't fit her lifestyle. How many people does something like that matter to, honestly? I get MS' approach....it makes sense. The average consumer would rather have things be simple, would rather have things done for them; than actively doing them for themselves. The exception to this is WebOS because its driven by the idea of multitasking. And how innovative is that. The homescreen is the taskmanager. Its a great way to make the idea of actively managing open apps seem like it is something that you are in control of, not like WM or android (where you just get massive lag) where it seems like the open programs are something thats controlling you.
Different strokes for different folks though. But hey remember how many of those basic required features that the original Iphone launched with? lol Looking back it was laughable how fail that phone was, but it sold out the stores like a champ. Its not about the basic features. Its about the innovation behind it. Apple invented the wheel all over again. MS has to invent the V8.
~style1~

Personally, I was looking forward to WP7.
But:
1) No Multi-Tasking (I don't count push notifications as multi-tasking)
2) No Copy/Paste
3) No removable Storage
4) No 'Use as USB device'
Are pretty big dealbreakers for me. These were all things in favor over the iPhone (except c&p since last year), and now they're going to handicap us :|

Thanks for being a voice of reason style

sevenprx,
windows does have their own take on C&P as well as multitasking. It in fact does do both, just not in the way thats been the industry standard so people are considering it NOT there even though it clearly is. I believe you should check out engadget where they do have a few good articles and clips.
1) Copy and Paste Here (even with the misleading headline its informative)
2) multitasking HERE
3) Removable storage is a big issue. I think most will be appeased by massive 32 gig phones but alot (myself included) of people wont. But in terms of solving problems it saves a few headaches for MS in the development process. I do believe MS told us during the keynote (or somewhere during that time, I cannot remember) that developers can have internal SD for more memory, but it is kinda a bummer for me to not have removable Cards. Its basically to keep this phone as unhackable as possible.
4) No use as a USB device...this too is a killer, as I mentioned earlier I do use my phone to store info on. Its a daily thing. Since I can't access my phone through activesync it makes all this info useless. Its like they only want use USB to move photos and music...THATS IT. I'm not sure if thats the best strategy but, for those to whom this is dealbreaker for, they are probably happy as sheep with 6.5 so it won't be too much of a deal for MS. Which of course still makes the HD2 an extremely viable phone at one helluva price.
~style~
Thanks mazzarin

I'm still looking forward to WP7. It has a lot of very intriguing features and I like the look of the UI.
As far as multi-tasking goes it will work with my needs. I can alway have a webpage up in the background, I can alway have music playing in the background. Any core feature of the UI like calls, SMS, email can all run the the background and one 3rd party app. Honestly, I hardly ever use multiple 3rd party apps to begin with.
I don't use copy and paste very much. I think I can say I've used it about 5 times since I've had my device and honestly it was so much of a pain to use that a couple of those time I gave up and just wrote it down and re-typed it.
I would really live to have removable storage. I just hope phones with 32GB flash come out. I can fill 8GB pretty easily.
I use my phone as a USB device a lot just to transfer big files. This is honestly one of the biggest things I don't like.

Look, I'm all for defending Microsoft but the one thing you glossed over is the one real dealbreaker.
No copy and paste? How basic yet essential is that? If you've only used it 5 times in 5 years I don't know what you've been doing with your phone, but other people bought a phone with Outlook and Office and web browsers for a reason. Data detection is not going to let me email a paragraph or search for a sentence.
"Multitasking": No problem, pause the apps for when I come back to them. I don't have to close them myself, cool.
No USB file access: Pain in the neck, sucks for us, but if we store only files that apps on the phone handle (music, documents, etc) then at least we can still use the device as intended. It just won't be a flash drive
No removable card: Very stupid since I do actually pull out the card.. but the truth is that most people don't. MS and app developers have a much easier time knowing that the storage is always a part of the device, and they also don't have to be so scared of piracy. So it really really sucks that we can't expand storage, but at least the phone will still work.
So when you combine those last two, our main difficulty is moving files on and off the phone.. but it will sync files to our own accounts fine at least. even wirelessly. So the phone is still usable. But copy/paste? The phone is CRIPPLED without it

again, what as I said before, I actually did sit in on an conversation and demo where there same things you're saying about copy and paste were presented to the demo operators. Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS.
Honestly just like multitasking, its a non intrusive way of doing what people do anyway. And yes I have only used multitasking maybe 5 times. I honestly just don't need the feature. I mean, hell as there are millions of Iphone users what they were doing with their phones for the longest. It just isn't important to me. I use outlook, use push, I use Office and the web browsers but I never had to copy anything. I handle P&L's, I keep many office documents and I prepare powerpoint presentations as well having my phone linked to corporate accounts that I use to send this information out on a system wide level. I haven't seen the use for copy and paste because honestly I send complete documents so I only need fowarding.... Occasionally I may just copy an email account and paste it into my recipients list but WP7 is capable of doing this...I witnessed it myself.
~style1~

Very rationale styles1. I like your thinking with some valid points. I still believe that wm has been around this long because of xda and every developer and user that uses their brain to tweak and modify to each individuals liking, including ms/htc and xda developers. Taking this away, takes the dignity away from ms and xda users. i have been a long time wm user since i was a kid back in the early 80s. the ONLY reason i don't have an iphone and not jumped ship like my dad, sister, brother in law, friends is because of the features that wm has had over the years. the ability to cut & paste, the ability to use storage cards, the ability to control the phone. I use all these features. Not every day, but I use them. And it's more than 5 times in 5 years. I guarantee everybody on here, and probably yourself, would be lyng if you said just 5 times. Try 10 or 20 times, but how is your memory so good and that you can count with your fingers to just 5. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue. These simple/essential things are actually quite vital to the average xda user like myself. I've read thousands of messages on here from chainfire, to abu, to duty, to dave shaw, mskipp and to every other developer on here. They are my true heroes, they have made the wm phone viable, with dignity. For an analogy, you can drive a cadilac or a mercedes. But your gonna tweak up a hyndai or honda and tell me it's the same and gonna be better than a mercedes. If honda were gonna tweak up there car and charge 75,000 and say they are just as good, then I'm just gonna buy one. hmmm. we (ms) is competeing against iphones? are we really competing against them, or are we competing against ourselves (wm 7 vs wm 6.5/6.0/5.0...) To take away all these essentials, would be taking away life. Variety and Substance is the essential part of life. I hate e-readers, yet I don't like reading books either. However, I'd rather read a book where I can locate a page, then read off an e-reader. I think XDA developers and the common user like myself have spoken loud and clearly, there are really no winners in this case. This is not your win-win scenario......What do I know, I'm just a geeky medical doctor writing with no substance.

well I didn't originally say only five times...I said maybe 5 times. I'm not a fun user I'm mostly a heavy poweruser. But as most of the people on here I am extremely mod heavy. So yeah, I get it. But developers here will still be able to use this site for 6.5 as well as 7. People have to understand a couple things first and foremost. First, if developers don't support WP7, WP7 won't move foward. They can also support 6.5 as well as WP7 and not have to PICK SIDES. This isn't about "oh they got rid of features I need, FAIL" this is about a platform as a whole. 6.5 isn't going anywhere soon. Keep it alive but embrace the future as well. I don't like the thinking that goes into a lot of the bashing that happens. I mean if we're going to use cars for examples let me throw one out there.
I used to drive a Ford Fusion, when it rained I would turn on my wind shield wipers. Last year I upgraded to a E class Mercedes...now when it rains my windshield wipers turn themselves on. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about something so trivial as to turn the wipers on and then get them at a pace that isn't excessive or less than what current rain speed is. Its a system that reacts to whats happening around it and assumes the likely reaction.
I think thats similar to the changes WP7 is making to amend some of the issues with WM6+. But of course thats just my opinion.
I personally, however, hope that developers here don't just shun WP7 because its different and embrace it as an opportunity to develop for a new platform, increase their product visibility and most important to make revenue off of their hard work. Donations are fine but being able to actually get paid for your work makes for a new scenarios that aren't currently available to developer here at XDA and as we all know money drives innovation.
~style1~

style1 said:
Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS
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No sir, no... I don't know what your definition of 'almost' is but I know that by definition "smartlinking" only works on structured data.. phone numbers, addresses, etc. If I wanted to paste another quote from your comment right here --> there's absolutely no way for smartlinking to do that.
Copy/Paste. Why does anyone even need to be arguing and making excuses for this? It's just basic and shouldn't have had to be left out or delayed. They have so many ways to implement it

if you read my post 6 i actually talk about what I saw in a live demo...actually I'll just quote it for ease of reading(I guess i will use copy and paste just for the hell of it....lol):
"microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all."
So yeah, I agree with you 100%...its not true copy and paste. It is however an alternative. And I know no matter what microsoft does, if they miss one step it comes out to be a deal breaker. But come-on, This is pushing it. I honestly sat there and watched almost (again I say almost) every copy and paste feature put to test, and the only thing it cannot do (copy from browser to insert elsewhere) ends up being like the worlds biggest issue. I have brought up some other FAAAAAAAR bigger issues, as well as provided some good reasoning and insight as to a lot of other system functions and we keep coming back to this extremely small issue. I honestly didn't know that so many people copy and paste from the browser. According to MS, people just don't do that, but apparently all the people who "do do that" are all on XDA...lol. But I guess that makes you right, though, people should be able to copy from the browser and paste elsewhere. Unfortunately WP7 won't support that at launch. What else can I say?
~style1~

No they don't provide an alternative, they provide alternatives to some use cases. No, copy from browser to insert elsewhere isn't the only use case, there have been numerous examples I won't copy here, you're just not paying attention to what people say.
No there aren't bigger issues as many of those can be resolved by hacking. C&P can't.

I personally find copy and paste indispensable and use it daily. One of the places I use it is to copy the website address and paste it into my mail and share it with my friends. Sometimes, I also copy of some useful information from the website to save it into my note application for future references. Then there are some forums that I visit daily where the only way to reply with quote is to highlight and copy the portion of the post first. Bottom line is copy and paste is completely necessary. MS has not done the research thoroughly or given it enough thoughts IMO.
As to multitasking, I almost always have more than one third party programs running. One of the scenarios is to listen to my favourite internet radio (which are oversea stations sometimes) while reading my 1000+ entries in my RSS google reader newsreader application.
Let's hope MS read these posts and come to their senses.

Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.

You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).

No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.

krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
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Click to collapse
This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations

can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind

Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................

I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!

Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach

yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.

anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Otherwise known as prison

devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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Click to collapse
More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.

I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.

ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.

^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.

If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy

tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
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Click to collapse
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.

addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
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I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol

Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.

chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.

Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
EDIT
Sorry, I should have elaborated. I basically want a phone that's good for texting (software keyboard on WP7 is great), fast in general (specifically the browser), has a few good time passing games (more heavy gaming would be done on my Playstation), good facebook support (which WP7 seems to support immensely), good for music/videos, good camera/video quality (I like the iPhone's HDR option, is there an app for that on WP7?) and good call quality/reception. I must admit I like apps, but not to the point that I have withdrawals for not having the same ones on each platform. It seems app development is picking up on WP7 with 100 apps a day and there are already some decent apps I would be using (flixster, IMDB, shazam, etc).
The iPhone has all these things and does them really well, but I feel like iPhone's are becoming a dime a dozen nowadays so I kinda want something that is a little bit different (has to be good though).
Someone asked why I don't like Android and BlackBerry so I guess I will explain (please don't get mad, its just my personal opinion). I've used Android on numerous occasions, but I don't like how it feels for some reason, nor do I like how the carriers customize its phone's interface with crappy skins and fail to update it promptly. I know you can do a lot with rooting, but it being my personal phone I would rather not risk losing data by tempering with it. Regarding BlackBerry's I need a phone with a touchscreen and I think the only BlackBerry at AT&T with a touchscreen is the BlackBerry Torch. When I used it, it just seemed so much slower and more bothering then it was fun to use. I'm not a corporate executive (I'm a senior in high school) that needs a phone to handle 100's of emails perfectly so I would rather not purchase one.

Hey man,
It really depends on what you want to use your phone for. It also depends on whether or not you want to make calls with your left hand (ha).
Seriously, though, I've got a WP7 device and my brother has an iPhone 4. For me, the biggest difference between the two is convenience. I have my upcoming appointments, weather, latest photos, facebook updates, emails and texts all on my homescreen, and most of the information I need day-to-day is available without having to dive into an app. When I had an iPhone, the homescreen's lack of functionality really began to frustrate me, and doing a lot of tasks became laborious.
That said, though, try both and see which you like. Obviously, the iPhone has the edge in apps but if you've got an iPad you can take advantage of iOS's huge store. Of course, the vastness of that store can be a blessing and a curse - in my experience WP7 apps tend to be of a higher standard, visually and functionally.
Basically, I don't see how you can go wrong with this choice. Both are great devices. I'd recommend Wp7 because for me it's more useful, and if you've got an iPad you can still get your angry birds fix. Anyway, try both and you can't go wrong.
Cheers

ErikWithNoC said:
Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.

Depends on what you want out of your phone. Without that information, the best advice I can give/ way to frame this is that it boils down to one important aspect:
Do you want variety? If you get an iPhone4, you are basically getting a smaller iPad (I own an iPad, so not knocking just saying), but you also get to share apps between the two, music, etc. If you get a WP7, you are getting and entirely new experience and platform. You will be getting duplicates of apps and in many cases music, etc.
For me, I love variety. I have several Android phones, a couple BBs, an iPad, and am getting an HD7 very soon. But I am also a cell phone salesman, so knowing every OS is vital to helping customers get the right phone. I am also a tech geek, so having different gadgets is exciting. Lastly, I am a curious person by nature and don't like not knowing first hand.
So, do you want variety (with the caveat of not having a unified experience) or do you want a unified experience across all your gadgets?

zuka right, it is about what your needs are.
I have the LG Quantum, i am in love, i need the keyboard, and i really like the "spell check" in it, i also have used the camera button more than once. WP7 has a flow to it and after using it for a bit you will like having that back button, i use it alot when my girlfriend txts me in the middle of something and i dont have to think about where i was in the UI. the iPhone is great but the GUI is feeling a little dated to me.

MartyLK said:
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.

It is all comes down to the personal choice.
All WP7 devices are built around the same specs pretty much, what makes Focus stand out is its screen IMHO. I do not own neither iPhon4 nor WP7, but I have a Galaxy S with the same screen as the Focus, believe me it is a joy to have it.
iPhone4 retina display is another marvel on its own, but I think 4" screen on Samsung is the balance between real estate and the visual quality.
Of course coming here you will get more favorable opinions towards WP7, but do your research on the choices you might have. AT&T is not big on the Android offerings, but Captivate offers the same screen as Focus, but in different OS implementation.
Good luck on your choice!

pjcforpres said:
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.

juist out of interest, OP, why don't you like android or blackberries?

It depends OP. Are you interested in participating in an Open Beta? If so.. WP7 is for you.

lqaddict said:
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.

pjcforpres said:
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.

lqaddict said:
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.

pjcforpres said:
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.

lqaddict said:
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.

pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and my point is that it is already present in the current offerings, no need to beat the old horse, we are not in 2007 anymore where WP7 seem to be stuck at the moment.

pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
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Click to collapse
So what you are saying is, the technology was invented years ago, but MS is too ignorant to understand it and port it?
By the way, please stop going off topic. The OP asked for user experience, I gave my experience. Your other post was completely uncalled for and off topic.

pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
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Click to collapse
from kindle says it is a universal c&p system for both third party and microsoft proprietary programs
I think a lot of people are being very hard on microsoft right now. There are features that the OS does not provide but it doesn't make me want to go back to any other OS because the experience is poor. I think microsoft has a pretty good 1.0 base with the initial update, I feel surpassing google g1 and android 1.5. there are things I still want from the OS but so far not too shabby

Jesus, can't you guys go one thread without desolving into an android vs wp7 flame war?
Just try and be constructive and answer the guy's question.

The answer to OP is:
Search and browse a lot, see reviews and criticisms of the gadget, then try to "take in the hand" and finally choose.
Avoid opening in this thread. Only generates flame.
Closed Thread.

Hi,
I am tired of my current WP7, its almost 4 months now and their has been no major development in the APP market scene.. everyone just release initial app and than forget about it with no updates and no improvements.. the Gaming market scene of Xbox is pretty much dead too with no new fun game, I had pretty bad experience with Sonic which is practically unplayable and other boring games which have started coming out recently.. it seems Xbox is releasing games just for the heck of it.. ex: geodefence and tentacles.. boring not worth paying which are like free in android market..
I am really getting inclined to give up my WP7 and switch to Android now and buy Galaxy S2.. its has some plus points and some minus points:
Plus:
I can expand my memory.
Looks better.
Its Smoled 'Plus'.
It might have better battery? I am not sure about this.
Established Android market.
Minus:
Its too big for my pocket.
No ZUNE Pass like service.
I have to give up my Achievements Score and I dont know if they have anything similar to this.
I have never used Android and have never seen one ever before.. its completely new to me and I dont even know where is the settings option, I dont know if I will like it after using WM6.5 and now WP7 for last 7 years. I have seen Iphone before and used it for like a week, but never spend even 20 secs with an Android phone.
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time.. If this MANGO dosent work and the APP and GAMES Marketplace dosent become more vibrant than it is right now.. than I am thinking this WP7 could just become a device for people could not afford phones like Iphone and GALAXY S2, like a second option, a second choice market, which I am scared of.. I want to own the best and not the second choice.. and right now it seems GALAXY S2 with its ANDROID thing is the best phone in market.

Hmm. Not sure if I quite get where you're coming from with the apps and games thing. Over the last month, a ton of apps, big names and small, have come to the platform. A ton more coming and updated post-Mango. I mean, the market will most likely hit 30k apps soon. I don't have, nor do I use, 30k apps on my phone, not to mention the 100k+ or 400k+ of android and iphone, respectively.
Also, I'm pretty sure that every installed app, or almost every installed app, on my phone has seen an update... several at that. So, I missed you on the "no updates and no improvements" part. Are there specific apps that YOU are missing, or need that you can't find in the windows marketplace?
Games-wise, well that's a matter of preference. Games you find boring, others may find greatly exciting. For example, one recent game which has come to the platform that I like is Arcane Tower Defense. It's a fantasy version of the classic tower defense genre with some twists.
I also like little games like Vanessa Saint-Pierre Delacroix and her Nightmare. But, after Mango there will be many games including multiplayer fighting games, RPGs, you name it, real time and turn-based.
As to the GS2. I haven't used it personally. I do know you can't get xbox live benefits like achievments, however. I'm sure somebody else here is more informed on the phone than I. I hear it's a killer phone, though. And, there may also be a WP7 version of the phone as well.
But, dig around a bit and check out the apps that have hit the marketplace in the last month or so as well as the games. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Then again...

Purple11 said:
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are on a yearly cycle for major updates, like pretty much everyone else.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to do business with this phone, its been so long and yet their is no decent Calendar App like Pocket Informant. The built in calendar app is very basic, I want to create recurring appointment on every first Tuesday of a month which was possible on PI8 but not here.
I miss Apps like SPB Diary which let me scroll my entire contacts and entire days appointments right from the front screen, and SPB Pocket Plus which basically was what Android is right now, a choice of multiple home screens with one app, thats what SPB Pocket Plus was.
I want Resco Audio Recorder which auto recorded all my incoming and outgoing calls, not because I want to spy but because if someone tells me large reference number on phone I dont have to tap and write at that moment, I could just say go ahead i am writing it down, and later I would just play back that call and note down what was that number.
I want the missing file explorer which is their present in android right now.
Metratrader 4 app for real time live trading execution in currency and stocks right from your phone, nothing like that exists in WP7, I know we have it for Iphone I dont know about android..
We say we have so many number of apps and things like that, but look at the top 10 PAID apps in each of the categories..
Business:
6 are language learning, 3 are business cards, 2 are time tracker and one to tie knots...
Tools and Productivity:
2 flashlights, 1 night clock, 1 air horn, 1, dog whistle, 1 that saves pic in pdf format and calls itself 'scanner' (very poor scanning my direct camera photo is better than their PDF it include handy scan app too), 2 remote desktop (10 USD each)..
Personal Finance:
7 budget software (all exactly same, just store your spending, nothing else, useless, nothing like SPB Finance), remaninf 4 are market watch apps which all just does the same thing which is stream rates of top 10 cos from yahoo or google.. , no decent wallet app like CODEwallet Pro where we could create nice cards from desktop and sync it to wallet on phone, no actual trading app.. nothing..

Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.

PG2G said:
Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.
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Click to collapse
Yep. Agreed.

In this kind of needs and preferences better try Android. WP7 is not really meant for this type of usage. This is what I have found for myself and while WP7 started to be frustrating after few months, Android solved everything for me in every respect.
I also want to see Mango and keep my Optimus 7 however some things are still not in the pipeline, like file explorers, USB docs/email sync and some apps like Opera Mini... And I'm afraid there won't by alternatives for core apps of WP7 either.

I understand your points well. I would also suggest that
Android is the right choise.
Just another way to look at things i would like to mention is, maybe most of the things you miss is just ways you USED to work with your phone? What ever WP is, its a new way to interact with your phone. For a old WM user like me, it was very wierd in the start, and i felt naked. I got used to it thou and currently having a replacment Android phone, while my current device is in for service. And now i miss my WP. It's strange how you miss the cow's afterwards.
Im staying with WP.
Just some thoughts from another side.

um..
I was thinking the same thing about switching to android, but I wont abandon wp all together. I'll give it a good year to mature

We have omnia7 and galaxy s. Of course the galaxy s fits better to my hardcore needs because it has al lot more options and you have a lot of custom roms and so on. BUT sometimes I'm really jealous about Omnia 7 perfect materials. And android is never as perfect designed as wp7. Android and its tons of different launchers is looking like an evolution of symbian and iOS. WP7 is something fresh and easy. Its what a phone is ment to be: a very easy and fast (internet) communication device. Not an overfilled little laptop.
So it's your choice: easy to use and well designed Omnia7 or a powerful plastic (gaming-)device with childish looking interface.
By the way: mango is awesome!

The galaxy s II is one of the finest android phones available. If you're looking for a feature set more similar to the old windows mobile ( and it sounds like you are), then Android is truly your best option.
Microsoft doesn't want a "complicated" phone platform anymore. They want consumer-facing, easy to use, social media and entertainment oriented with the ability to handle corporate e-mail, calendar and document editing if you need it in a pinch.
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
I owned a Galaxy s II before selling it to a friend who needed a new phone, and I would purchase the device again in a heartbeat if I decided I wanted to use android.

Andrmgic said:
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
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Click to collapse
Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.

PG2G said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.
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Click to collapse
Yeah maybe in 2050. You must be kidding. For any profi usage these are the basics.

I will give this phone a try till December, if nothing comes up in the APP scene better than what it is at present than I will switch to Android perm for good.. I am not the one who keeps two phones or keep migrating from one to another OS frequently.. I just choose the best and stay with it for a long time..
i desperately need a better calendar app for appointments.. this whole wide calendar tile is just a wasteful eye candy which i have come to realize.. auto call recording which i guess with the absence of file explorer will never come to wp7.. i want to make my phone a USB on the Go like thing, a pen drive... 16 GB of total storage is too small..
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...

Purple11 said:
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...
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Click to collapse
You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.

PG2G said:
You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.
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Click to collapse
Yep. Microsoft isn't gearing this phone toward the likes of the geeks and tech nerds that frequent this forum. The average user makes up the majority of users, thus the demographic Microsoft seeks to lure to WP7.
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
You may also find that some of these things may never come or may not come for quite some time. I, for one, hope to never see a file explorer on WP7.
The fact is, this isn't android and that's a good thing. Each has its own role to play and fits in where they fit in. If WP7 had been around back in 2008 as the alternative to ATT and the iphone, android would most likely be a niche device for the above geeks and tech nerds.
That being said, only Android will fully fill your present and perhaps future needs.
Good luck. Whichever direction ya go.

Wyn6 said:
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
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Click to collapse
That's one of the things that I was thinking about as I read what he wanted to do. Unfortunately, Mango only allows for read-only access to the Contacts and Appointments. The only way to create an app like that (that actually integrates with the existing calendar app) would be to make the changes in the cloud and let the phone sync like normal. I guess you could always have a 100% standalone calendar app though.

I also want to say that the inability to expand memory using SDHC card will restrict many companies to bring their larger good graphics game to WP7... I have 16GB but I know their are people with only 8GB memory and they cannot expand it..
Now checkout this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CwSedSzckE&feature=relmfu
It looks a very heavy game by memory wise , if we want games like this on WP7 than 8GB device is a very small handset to have several of this kind of game.. I dont think gameloft can bring such games to WP7 with current restrictions on expandable memory..

****ty textures.. probably fits into the 400-500mb range.
The iphone version weighs in at 511MB..
You should probably get the SGS II and be done with it. You're not likely to find a better android device this year, and android will serve your purposes better than WP7.
It'll play 1080p h264 video in a mkv container without re-encoding.. and supports HDMI out using a MHL adapter.
Even with Mango's new APIs, you're not going to get the same level of functionality that you're looking for.
1. WP7 apps are not written using native code, they use silverlight, XNA or a combination of the two
2. There will never be a file manager or a task manager
3. There is no bluetooth file transfer
4. No Expandable storage
5. Small number of applications (this will be less of an issue as time goes by.. the marketplace is growing fairly rapidly)
6. Limited hardware options
7. No true multitasking (applications don't run constantly in the background until they are exited.. they do on android)
8. No Usb mass storage

I have both devices.
Maybe i can help you a bit.
I do have both devices (+ I have some more). It was part of the benefits of my last job and also part ( almost a requirement) of my actual one.
- If you switch to Android from Wp7 you feel like going back to WinMO a bit. Tons of Rom's,tons of walpapers but milligrams if you need help.
- The greatest benefit of WP7 is the unified platform. Maybe you don't realize it atm, but for 99% of people I've spoken to, it's a deal breaker.
- Not, I repeat, not my solely opinion: everything onscreen with Omnia7 looks better than on SGS2. People always want to tinker with the Omnia7 when I put both phones on the table (sometimes I carry the IPhone 4 with me also).
- SGS2 is literally bloated with redundant crapware. If you guys have ever bought a Sony Vaio in 2008-2010, this is worse.
- SGS2 takes mindblowing photos and FullHD videos (that they don't look like shot through a fishbowl).
-there are some neat tricks bundled on SGS2 but nothing you can't dl from market for free.
-battery is on par.
-voice commands are better on WP7.
-SGS2 feels like under development. 16bit graphics + wake up lag...for amoled+ and dual core? WTF?
- WP7 is more on the legal side, harder to sideload stolen/cracked apps. On android, on the other hand, you get hundreds of forums just for that.
If you have more questions I'd be happy to answer.