Related
I have a galaxy s2 and I cannot get the phone into ODIN download mode. When I plug in the USB, while holding the down and up volume button it goes into recovery mode A3 but no DL mode. I can't get a USB connection to the computer for the phone to be recognized so I was trying to get into ODIN DL mode to see if I can get a connection this way but no luck
josephh71 said:
I have a galaxy s2 and I cannot get the phone into ODIN download mode. When I plug in the USB, while holding the down and up volume button it goes into recovery mode A3 but no DL mode. I can't get a USB connection to the computer for the phone to be recognized so I was trying to get into ODIN DL mode to see if I can get a connection this way but no luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you trying to recover from a bad flash? Did you already root your phone? Did your try to wipe cache/factory reset from recovery? Is your phone unable to boot?
No
I've never flashed the phone before, it's not rooted and there is only the built in recovery mode. I have factory reset once but its when I first got the phone.
josephh71 said:
I've never flashed the phone before, it's not rooted and there is only the built in recovery mode. I have factory reset once but its when I first got the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try turning off your phone, pulling out the battery for a couple of seconds and then, press power + vol(+) + vol(-) and release the power button when it vibrates once?
Yep
jonmassot said:
Did you try turning off your phone, pulling out the battery for a couple of seconds and then, press power + vol(+) + vol(-) and release the power button when it vibrates once?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and it loads into android system recovery <3a>
josephh71 said:
Yes and it loads into android system recovery <3a>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically, with the SGH-T989D, pressing both volumes buttons at the same time while loading will bring you to the recovery, but it's not supposed to be the same with the SGH-T989... Did you tried booting while holding only 1 volume button, bottom or upper?
josephh71 said:
Yes and it loads into android system recovery <3a>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am assuming you want your phone in download mode so you can flash through ODIN ....right?
what do you want to flash from ODIN?
Do you want to flash a custom ROM? or stock ROM?
will tell you how to put phone in download mode but you gotta answer above question so i can help u to the right direction.
???
Custom
sam.balia1012 said:
i am assuming you want your phone in download mode so you can flash through ODIN ....right?
what do you want to flash from ODIN?
Do you want to flash a custom ROM? or stock ROM?
will tell you how to put phone in download mode but you gotta answer above question so i can help u to the right direction.
???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want to flash a custom rom and root the device as well
josephh71 said:
I want to flash a custom rom and root the device as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1-use ODIN to flash cwm (clockwork mod) & root your phone First
2-after that u flash any custom ROM while in cwm.
How:
1- your pc has to have samsung usb drivers (one way to do that is to downlaod samsung Kies)
download to your pc these files:
“recovery-cmw-hercules.tar”
CWM-SuperSU-v0.87.zip
get them from here http://galaxys2root.com/t-mobile-galaxy-s2/how-to-root-icsgb-on-t-mobile-galaxy-s2-sgh-t989/
Now, to put phone in download mode: Turn phone off- take battery out Then put it back in- hold vol+/- down & plug usb cable in phone
screen will come on- move vol up -----> u in download mode. (at this stage only usb cable or you following steps can make this not work)
Start ODIN........u can see the rest from link above.
After phone is rooted and has cwm installed Now u can copy any ROM to scdard and flash it through cwm.
to put phone in cwm (recovery) same as above except Hold vol+/- & power button (no USB cable) samsung will show up on screen Let go of power button and keep holding vol+/- ----> now u are in recovery ....install your rom + gapps and reboot
Two importand thinhs: after rooting and installing cwm ------back up your current rom & make sure make sure you flash ROMS for your device (Hercules) only ....u flash a rom/kernel for another device YOU WILL brick your phone,
after the first time....its super easy
Hit thanks
jonmassot said:
Did you try turning off your phone, pulling out the battery for a couple of seconds and then, press power + vol(+) + vol(-) and release the power button when it vibrates once?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pull the battery, plug the cable into the phone, Hold the up and down rockers, put the battery back into the phone and power it on while holding the rockers. A yellow screen with a warning will come up. Pressing the Up rocker will get to DL mode. Pressing down will reboot the phone. But unless your phone is connected to the computer/power, DL mode is difficult to get to. Hope that helps
when do you put the battery back in?
Hey there, so my phone randomly decided to stop working today.
Whenever I put the battery in the phone or plug in the charger, the Samsung screen loads then nothing. This all happens without me pushing the power button btw. Then the power button doesn't work, nor can I access recovery.
Like I mentioned, this all happened very suddenly and unexpectedly. I haven't flashed a rom in awhile so I'm not sure what caused the problem. One tidbit worth mentioning is that my phone would randomly reboot on the rom I've been using, but it wouldn't happen too often.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Not exactly sure what I should do in this situation. Thanks for reading.
nfsplayer99 said:
Hey there, so my phone randomly decided to stop working today.
Whenever I put the battery in the phone or plug in the charger, the Samsung screen loads then nothing. This all happens without me pushing the power button btw. Then the power button doesn't work, nor can I access recovery.
Like I mentioned, this all happened very suddenly and unexpectedly. I haven't flashed a rom in awhile so I'm not sure what caused the problem. One tidbit worth mentioning is that my phone would randomly reboot on the rom I've been using, but it wouldn't happen too often.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Not exactly sure what I should do in this situation. Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try to be quicker to access recovery, power off the phone. then press the power, vol up, and home then AS SOON as you see the blue text on the left top side of the samsung logo screen let go of the buttons, it should boot into recovery then wipe data factory reset and reboot.
Andy_nu said:
try to be quicker to access recovery, power off the phone. then press the power, vol up, and home then AS SOON as you see the blue text on the left top side of the samsung logo screen let go of the buttons, it should boot into recovery then wipe data factory reset and reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I was able to do that once, but then the phone just goes to a black screen and doesn't load anything
nfsplayer99 said:
Yeah, I was able to do that once, but then the phone just goes to a black screen and doesn't load anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
flash this recovery attached with odin by booting into download mode via power vol down and home, wipe data factory reset and reboot
http://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=9390212717148635222 (recovery)
http://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=9390275921635705049 (odin)
place in pda with only f. reset time and auto reboot checked. it SHOULD only take about 10 seconds to flash. as soon as your phone reboots hold the recovery combo and it should go to it
I can't really access download mode either.
I'll get to the screen that asks if I want to go into download mode, then push the up on the volume rocker, get to the next screen, but then it goes black about a second later.
Thanks for all the help so far though.
nfsplayer99 said:
I can't really access download mode either.
I'll get to the screen that asks if I want to go into download mode, then push the up on the volume rocker, get to the next screen, but then it goes black about a second later.
Thanks for all the help so far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kinda odd. never had that happen before. ,maybe you could try to reflash the download mode into your phone using this method
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2369125(make sure you use a debrick.img http://d-h.st/iEy for att not sprint BTW)
or use a jig. since your phone can still access the boot interface.
nfsplayer99 said:
I can't really access download mode either.
I'll get to the screen that asks if I want to go into download mode, then push the up on the volume rocker, get to the next screen, but then it goes black about a second later.
Thanks for all the help so far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you done this and then connected the USB to see if ODIN will recognize the phone? it's entirely possible that you are getting into download mode, but just can't see it..
It's certainly worth a try.
if you are stuck at samsung logo after flashing with odin
here's what you have to do:
1. While on Samsung logo. press power key + volume up and down + home button (all together)
2. When the screen is off. Press Power key + Volume Up + home button to enter recovery mode.
3. Wipe Data
4. Wipe Cache
5. Reboot to system
you should be fine right now ^^
cheers!
lexjay said:
if you are stuck at samsung logo after flashing with odin
here's what you have to do:
1. While on Samsung logo. press power key + volume up and down + home button (all together)
2. When the screen is off. Press Power key + Volume Up + home button to enter recovery mode.
3. Wipe Data
4. Wipe Cache
5. Reboot to system
you should be fine right now ^^
cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm having that problem now. I followed your instructions and got to the recovery mode or "Odin Mode" and it's been saying it's downloading for about 10 min or so. Any idea on how long it should take ?
casual167 said:
I'm having that problem now. I followed your instructions and got to the recovery mode or "Odin Mode" and it's been saying it's downloading for about 10 min or so. Any idea on how long it should take ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I believe it's the download mode that I'm in. It doesn't seem to get to the recovery mode when I press the Volume up key and power button for some reason.. Am I doing something wrong
casual167 said:
Actually I believe it's the download mode that I'm in. It doesn't seem to get to the recovery mode when I press the Volume up key and power button for some reason.. Am I doing something wrong
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Follow these instructions implicitly.
Hold POWER + VOL DOWN + HOME.
As soon as it restarts change to VOL UP while still holding the other buttons.
Do NOT let go of any of the buttons until recovery boots.
ashyx said:
Follow these instructions implicitly.
Hold POWER + VOL DOWN + HOME.
As soon as it restarts change to VOL UP while still holding the other buttons.
Do NOT let go of any of the buttons until recovery boots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I've been doing exactly but for some reason it just goes right back to the logo screen. I was able to get into the recovery mode one time out of 100 and I went through the process of factory reset but it didn't solve the problem. Now I can't get back into it. It's weird because I have no problem getting into the download mode pressing the volume down but volume up doesn't seem to work. Not sure why or what to do
I'd try reflashing stock recovery then try booting into it again.
If it flashes then you should be able to boot into it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?qyybs0m1yln443x
ashyx said:
I'd try reflashing stock recovery then try booting into it again.
If it flashes then you should be able to boot into it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?qyybs0m1yln443x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How exactly would I do that? I'm not to inclined when it comes to this stuff so any help you can give would be appreciated
Install Samsung usb drivers, put your tab into download mode, connect to pc, run Odin, load the file into the AP slot then click start.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3109599&d=1420980613
i think i bricked mine...
These are the 2 screens i get whenever i try anything
joker616 said:
i think i bricked mine...
These are the 2 screens i get whenever i try anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You haven't bricked anything, there could be any number of reasons why it won't boot past the logo.
Easiest way to resolve it would be to reinstall the stock rom.
The second image is download mode.
joker616 said:
i think i bricked mine...
These are the 2 screens i get whenever i try anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the exact same situation I'm in. Every time I restart it I can't get passed that damn Samsung logo screen. I tried the whole flash with Odin process but I realized that when I connect the tablet to the computer, I get an "MTP Device Driver Failed" message so I'm assuming since the computer doesn't recognize it, even tried with KEIS and it doesn't, that I'm unable to complete the Odin job because that goes until 'Initialization' and stops there. Were you able to fix yours?
casual167 said:
That's the exact same situation I'm in. Every time I restart it I can't get passed that damn Samsung logo screen. I tried the whole flash with Odin process but I realized that when I connect the tablet to the computer, I get an "MTP Device Driver Failed" message so I'm assuming since the computer doesn't recognize it, even tried with KEIS and it doesn't, that I'm unable to complete the Odin job because that goes until 'Initialization' and stops there. Were you able to fix yours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you saying you still can't get into recovery mode?
Also what is your device model?
ashyx said:
Are you saying you still can't get into recovery mode?
Also what is your device model?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I can't. I've tried a thousand times in all different sequences of holding the three buttons and it just doesn't go. It's SM-T800. They screen shots on the first page is exactly what I get. Either the logo screen when trying to get into recovery or download mode which it has no problem going into.
casual167 said:
No I can't. I've tried a thousand times in all different sequences of holding the three buttons and it just doesn't go. It's SM-T800. They screen shots on the first page is exactly what I get. Either the logo screen when trying to get into recovery or download mode which it has no problem going into.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The two files below should boot you directly into recovery as soon as you start the tablet if you can flash them. Flash with Odin from the AP slot.
Make sure you put the device into DOWNLOAD mode first then connect your usb cable!
You can then do a factory reset and then try and flash the stock rom.
Stock recovery
Twrp recovery
.
ashyx said:
The two files below should boot you directly into recovery as soon as you start the tablet if you can flash them. Flash with Odin from the AP slot.
Make sure you put the device into DOWNLOAD mode first then connect your usb cable!
You can then do a factory reset and then try and flash the stock rom.
Stock recovery
Twrp recovery
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I tried that too but when I connect the tablet to my comp, I get this 'Samsung Mobile MTP Device Failed' message so my comp doesn't even recognize the tablet. I even tried connecting with KEIS but that doesn't see it either because of that error. Idk if that's related to this issue that I'm having but I'm assuming that since the comp doesn't recognize the tablet because of that error, it won't finish the ODIN job. I get up to 'Initialization' and nothing after. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the Samsung drivers and that didn't work either. Seems I can't catch a break here
casual167 said:
Yeah I tried that too but when I connect the tablet to my comp, I get this 'Samsung Mobile MTP Device Failed' message so my comp doesn't even recognize the tablet. I even tried connecting with KEIS but that doesn't see it either because of that error. Idk if that's related to this issue that I'm having but I'm assuming that since the comp doesn't recognize the tablet because of that error, it won't finish the ODIN job. I get up to 'Initialization' and nothing after. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the Samsung drivers and that didn't work either. Seems I can't catch a break here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mtp, kies and anything else is irrelevant, they are OS dependent.
Just put the tablet into download mode. Download mode works in boot loader mode. No need for the os.
ashyx said:
Mtp, kies and anything else is irrelevant, they are OS dependent.
Just put the tablet into download mode. Download mode works in boot loader mode. No need for the os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok than Idk why it doesn't go passed the 'Initialization'. I tried multiple times and keep getting stuck on that
casual167 said:
Ok than Idk why it doesn't go passed the 'Initialization'. I tried multiple times and keep getting stuck on that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok we need to take this step by step as theres something amiss here.
DID YOU AT ANY POINT WHILE THE TABLET WAS WORKING ENABLE 'REACTIVATION LOCK'?
1. Ensure the Samsung drivers are installed (important) Samsung usb driver
2. Before connecting anything to the PC put the tablet in DOWNLOAD mode first.
3. Plug the USB cable into a USB 2 port
4. Wait for the 'ADDED' message (if you dont get this it wont work)
5. Load the tar file into the AP slot.
6. Click START
7. If it doesn't start to flash reboot the tablet directly back into DOWNLOAD mode without touching anything else then unplug and replug the USB cable back in.
8. If it still doesn't flash try ODIN 3.07 ODIN
9. Report back and post a screenshot (if it doesn't work).
ashyx said:
Ok we need to take this step by step as theres something amiss here.
DID YOU AT ANY POINT WHILE THE TABLET WAS WORKING ENABLE 'REACTIVATION LOCK'?
1. Ensure the Samsung drivers are installed (important) Samsung usb driver
2. Before connecting anything to the PC put the tablet in DOWNLOAD mode first.
3. Plug the USB cable into a USB 2 port
4. Wait for the 'ADDED' message (if you dont get this it wont work)
5. Load the tar file into the AP slot.
6. Click START
7. If it doesn't start to flash reboot the tablet directly back into DOWNLOAD mode without touching anything else then unplug and replug the USB cable back in.
8. If it still doesn't flash try ODIN 3.07 ODIN
9. Report back and post a screenshot (if it doesn't work).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know for a fact that I never enabled the Reactivation Lock.. But you know, after literally days and hours including my entire weekend just searching the internet and trying every possible fix scenario that people have tried, I just gave in and sent it to Samsung this afternoon to have them fix it. Nothing I was doing seemed to work and I do believe I tried everything within my little knowledge to try. Let me ask you though, when I get it back in normal working order, would going through the steps to install the TWRP recovery and a ROM prevent me from being in this situation again or at least be able to actually fix it on my own?
If you dont mind tripping Knox and possibly warranty then I believe installing custom recovery is one of the best tools you can Install to a device.
It can get you back to a working state in minutes if you make a full backup.
It's a no brainer to install custom recovery if you intend to root and modify the device in any way.
Hi, my device after a soft reset, reboots to the teamwin blue screen flashes black and then again to the teamwin screen. I cant get to recovery mode to restore rom. Any help would be appreciated.
Gloriel said:
Hi, my device after a soft reset, reboots to the teamwin blue screen flashes black and then again to the teamwin screen. I cant get to recovery mode to restore rom. Any help would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hold power+home+volume up and down buttons all at the same time until it's fully shutoff. Then quickly press the download mode button combo and reflash twrp
DUHAsianSKILLZ said:
Hold power+home+volume up and down buttons all at the same time until it's fully shutoff. Then quickly press the download mode button combo and reflash twrp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the answer but i can't get the device to enter download mode. When i reboot the device (with any combination of keys) it says on top left corner of the screen "Recovery Booting..." and then it enters to teamwin screen loop, no matter what i press.
Gloriel said:
Thanks for the answer but i can't get the device to enter download mode. When i reboot the device (with any combination of keys) it says on top left corner of the screen "Recovery Booting..." and then it enters to teamwin screen loop, no matter what i press.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing happening here. I have tried everything and can't get over it.
Does anyone knows how to fix this. I 'm afraid that my tablet is beyond repair
Gloriel said:
Does anyone knows how to fix this. I 'm afraid that my tablet is beyond repair
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait till its completely dead. Plug it in and press the download mode button combo. Might be your last hope
DUHAsianSKILLZ said:
Wait till its completely dead. Plug it in and press the download mode button combo. Might be your last hope
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your answer but the same think happens.
Same appened here. After a factory reset its stucked on teamview boot loop.
Anyone got a solution??
Solved by flashing cf-auto-root with odin on download mode.
Just ran into this myself haha. The device is just soft-bricked and I managed to get it into Odin mode (Download). Will let it charge for a bit then either flash stock firmware with Odin or try flashing TWRP again to see if that fixes it
Edit: flashing the latest TWRP worked
Same thing is happening to me. I get stuck in the teamwin boot loop and cannot get into the download mode to fix with Odin.
This all came about after trying to factory wipe the device due to Google Play not working correctly. I'll repost if I have success...
Just recovered my tablet from the same issue. In order to get into download mode, I had to let the battery fully drain. Then, holding the home and vol down keys, I plugged it into the charger. Plugging the charger in while the battery was drained automatically powered it up. After I saw the download warning, I released the buttons and entered download mode as usual. Then I flashed the latest TWRP with Odin.
No other combination of booting or button pressing worked. Trying to enter download with home+vol down and pressing power did not work for me either.
Good luck and PM me if you have any questions about this. I hope I explained it correctly.
[SOLVED] Download mode can't be removed, I had to try all dat long but I finally could boot into it.
Hi,
So... I had a working Samsung Galaxy S9 (SM-G960F/DS) running Lineage OS yesterday. I noticed something wrong related to the mobile network in my country (FR) and decided to flash the correct stock firmware matching the country code XEF before doing a full LOS reinstall.
Fast-forward 20hrs of download, I perform the flash operation this morning using heimdall(1) and reboot.
Now, the phone bootloops. I can't get into download mode as usual, and the only thing that is available is the stock recovery mode that allows:
apply update from adb
apply update from sdcard
wipe data
wipe cache
mount /system
view logs
run graphics test
I have a working all-countries firmware archive that contains the one that was working previously (minus the mobile network problem). But since I don't have download-mode anymore I can't install it. I tried adb sideload (which is available via the "apply update from adb" option), wipe data/cache to no avail.
Is that hard-brick? Did you ever experience a similar situation? I think there's no way out of this but any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks again!
You should be able to get into Download Mode (Vol Down & Bixby & Power)
Keep trying, try keeping hold of the button combo until after the phone reboots twice hopefully the second time into download mode
Download mode has nothing to do with firmware or recovery that has been flashed, and if you can enter recovery mode, it doesn't sound like a hardware problem either
And use a Windows machine & ODIN 3.13.1 to flash stock
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work, i tried many tiimes and I usually can do that very easily. It seems flashing the corrupted images wiped it out.
mateba said:
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work, i tried many tiimes and I usually can do that very easily. It seems flashing the corrupted images wiped it out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossible as it is not part of the firmware, nor can be touched by firmware, it is part of the hardware (Think BIOS vs OS)
You can even 100% wipe all internal storage clean so there is no OS at all and download mode will still work fine
Keep trying
Okay I guess it's possible that the download mode is still there but I can't reach it.
I've been trying hundreds of times every combination I can think of (including Home + Vol Down + Power that used to work).
Any alternative way to trigger the download mode ?
How are you trying Home? There is no physical home button
The button combo is Vol Down & Bixby & Power from a powered off state
Keep a hold of all 3 until it hits the Warning screen, then hit Vol Up to enter Download mode
No other way to access it that I know of, USB Jig hasn't worked since a few models back
Have you tried factory resetting from inside recovery? Unless you used CSC during the stock firmware flash, that could be a reason for the bootloop
*Detection* said:
How are you trying Home? There is no physical home button
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah sorry, speaking of the Bixby button.
*Detection* said:
The button combo is Vol Down & Bixby & Power from a powered off state
Keep a hold of all 3 until it hits the Warning screen, then hit Vol Up to enter Download mode
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what used to work indeed. I did that many times before.
*Detection* said:
No other way to access it that I know of, USB Jig hasn't worked since a few models back
Have you tried factory resetting from inside recovery? Unless you used CSC during the stock firmware flash, that could be a reason for the bootloop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried factory reset/wipe cache from inside the recovery and yes, I used CSC.
mateba said:
Yeah sorry, speaking of the Bixby button.
That's what used to work indeed. I did that many times before.
I tried factory reset/wipe cache from inside the recovery and yes, I used CSC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the issue is with the Volume Down button, does it work inside of recovery for navigating the menu ?
What happens when you try entering Download mode? It just tries to boot as if you didn't press anything?
Only other thing is to hold Volume Down & Bixby, then connect the USB cable to power it on (instead of using the power button)
*Detection* said:
Maybe the issue is with the Volume Down button, does it work inside of recovery for navigating the menu ?
What happens when you try entering Download mode? It just tries to boot as if you didn't press anything?
Only other thing is to hold Volume Down & Bixby, then connect the USB cable to power it on (instead of using the power button)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The volume down button works perfectly in the recovery menu.
When I try entering download mode normally while device is powered down, the phone never turns on.
When I try to hold the buttons during the interval of the boot loop, it goes to recovery (yes, even with volume down, not volume up).
The other technique you mentioned also went to recovery.
*Detection* said:
Impossible as it is not part of the firmware, nor can be touched by firmware, it is part of the hardware (Think BIOS vs OS)
You can even 100% wipe all internal storage clean so there is no OS at all and download mode will still work fine
Keep trying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BINGO! I kept trying. Did this all day literally hundreds of times.
And it just worked.
I didn't change the way I do it, I think there was some nasty timing going on with the boot loop.
Anyways... lesson learnt: download mode is indeed hardcoded. What a day!
Thanks for being so helpful!
mateba said:
BINGO! I kept trying. Did this all day literally hundreds of times.
And it just worked.
I didn't change the way I do it, I think there was some nasty timing going on with the boot loop.
Anyways... lesson learnt: download mode is indeed hardcoded. What a day!
Thanks for being so helpful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good stuff, yea well whatever it was hopefully it's sorted now, use ODIN this time