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I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times. And maybe only 1 of those times isn't supported by current WP7. I think I was trying to copy a selected joke off the internet and send it in a text to someone. Is that really a deal breaker? REALLY? I can't copy and paste in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I can't multitask in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I don't have access to the file system so this phone sucks? lol This is getting out of hand. I'm not gonna lie, after seeing it in person I want to give a few thoughts:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
2) MS isn't just forgoing certain aspects, they are giving you something they perceive is BETTER(and they could be wrong). And I get to thinking about this for a minute. I'm running an Acer S2000, I don't have much problems with running multiple apps at the same time but If I go back to my old Touch HD, After running maybe 4-5 apps at the same time(hell just one 2-3 apps provided one of them is google maps), I start to experience extreme slowdown in the device so now I'm forced to use the task manager and close out apps. This is everyday stuff for us, no biggie. But to the everyday end-consumer its pretty tough and annoying concept to grasp. So why shouldn't the system do it for you? Why shouldn't the system recognize the fact that you just got an email with a phone number and that by clicking on the phone number you either want to add it as a contact or call the number? Why? Is a very important question. People ask why are some of us defending it to the death, I ask why are certain people so unwilling to accept change? Its not like WM6+ is dead...
3) its not an iphone clone. Hell, Android and WebOS has multitasking, I guess they are WM-clones... Its such a stupid concept. It looks nothing like the Iphone and it doesn't act anything like the Iphone. But you gotta give Apple some credit, they know what people want and they provide it, thats how you go from the bottom of the hill to the top in 4 quick years. The Iphone reinvented what people use a phone for. Its simple and intuitive (just press what you want) WM is going for that same lot of people. If everyone from XDA didn't buy WP7, MS wouldn't even break a sweat because it know it will gain far more everyday users than it will lose from powerusers. Powerusers will stay where they are, but look at the population of the world with Tweet, facebook, myspace, etc. You don't think some of them are salivating at the mouth to get to this powerhouse? I wish MS would have just flat out said, "you wanna hack phones and tinker with system files, this phone isn't for you, go suck it XDA" it would have been so much easier for people to take
So look at the positive
Developers (which i have to believe are the life blood of WM and THIS WEBSITE...unless you're a leech in which case no need to respond) No more need to spend you precious time building beautiful apps and not get paid for it(if it were the case A_C would be one rich dude by now). I like the idea of the marketplace as the only place to get apps. I mean when people think about how many people take innovation for granted on this site. Show up, find something new, download someones work...not leave a message of thanks, not donate etc....just poof gone. Thats complete and utter crap. Devs should get paid for their work, free download with a set trial period is an amazing idea and will definitely go a long way to seeing 1) quality developers getting most of the service 2) quality apps drive the marketplace to further innovation. This is a all around plus for the end user and developers.
Built in memory. I think is a plus. Now people can argue the contrary but this is more of a personal thing for me. Plus when you think of the end user, it only works out for the better. Give me 32GB and I'm fine. Hell I haven't come close to maxing out the same 4 gig I've had for the past 3-4 years.
Everything is better than Windows media player. I must say, I use my phone for music a lot (Jaybird bluetooth FTW) and I must say the Zune experience is amazing (I also have a Zune) and its just beautiful. Gone are the days when I copy songs onto my phone and I end up with Unknown song 1-18 by unknown artist. Zune desktop is head and shoulders above WM and Itunes. Hell you can search more music by and artist you have on your phone, listen to songs and download them str8 to the phone with the Zune Pass. I get 10 free songs a month to keep, and can listen to anything I want anytime for $15 a month. Thats an awesome deal considering Itunes is 99 cents per song and you don't have the ability to listen to anything you want anytime you want.
Info on the go, I like the hubs...I love the hubs. I wish i used social networking sites..lol. Honestly the amount of detail that goes into the total system integration of social networking is sheer madness. Your photos update with photos that people post on their facebook?!?!?! WTF? Thats insane. Its quite ridiculous how far they went, but if you care about that, and a lot of people do, then this is the ultimate device. You don't need to launch twinkini or whatever twitter app to see whats going on, you only need to look through your contacts. Thats awesome
MS Office, I never used anything but XLS files personally but I'm looking at the way its integrated (even though they didn't get too in depth) and it looks great. It looks clean (METRO UI) and it looks easy to use. I can't wait to get some pinch to zoom action going. Powerpoint presentations should be a breeze as well.
XBOX HUB, sheer awesomeness. I don't have an Xbox(PS3 FTW) but Linking it all together they way they have is nothing short of innovative and awesome. Give me an Xperia X3 with a PS3 Integration and I'll love you forever. Also a big shout out goes to the game development. Graphics are seriously on par with PSP quality. It quite amazing.
I once said:
"its(WP7) not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation..."
I still stand by that after MIX10. I won't bash WP7 and I will defend it because I believe it is that innovative, I believe it is a game changer. For all the complaining there hasn't been a congruent amount of love spread so I will be that guy even if the flame gets ridiculous. So yeah, MIX10 was amazing, got robbed, won some money, got married and divorced (I kid) it was a great experience, something that watching it on video cannot give justice to.
That said I will give a few of my small personal beefs.
1) The phone handles multitasking in a way that closes programs when the system needs the resources, why don't we have control over this? Having the ability to manually close programs is important...should be an option. Assuming the system doesn't have some genius way of making me happy with its multitasking...this could be a problem. Also, with the spec given, how the hell is this system running out of resources?
2) SD cards aren't supported. Eh, with enough built in memory this isn't a problem to most but, I know some that have maxed out their Iphones/Ipod touch. It would be nice to have an expandable option
3) Compatiblity issues, How am I supposed to share files with my phone to my PC if I cannot access activesync? Do I email the file to myself then open it on my PC? There better be some answer for this.
4) Also I use my current WM phone as a thumbdrive alot. I just store stuff on it to keep with me and put on my work PC and vice versa. Without activesync, memory cards, or access to system files how is this accomplished?
~style1~
ALRIGHT those are my thoughts, I tried to play both sides of the fence even though I'm completely biased..lol. I do bring up some interesting issues with WP7...what are your thoughts? Also sorry for another long thread
style1 said:
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times.
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That's nice, but what's the rationale for not including it for anyone? MS says, "Our research indicates that people don't use copy and paste." That scares me because it is very Apple-esque. I hate the philosophy of "we know what works best for you, so why don't you shut the eff up and not ask any questions, OK? Just do what you're told and play in our nice little walled in garden and everything will be fine." That Apple mentality has spread to MS it seems. I don't often look at or take pictures on my phone, either, but does that mean those capabilities should be removed? No, they should be there in the event that I do want to use them. What's the harm in leaving in copy and paste?
And if I can get good battery life on my TP2 with multitasking, why can't they coax it out of the shiny new WP7? How does Palm do it?
I store all sorts of crap on my phone, so they better have 32GB versions available and let me use it as USB storage.
Also, I heard you won't be able to set different programs as the default (say, Opera instead of IE). Which is another ridiculous restriction and just shows that MS has gone overboard with control, just like Apple. And that's just the reason I don't have an iPod or iPhone.
So if things don't change, I'm off to Android.
Engadget, by the way, has been actually quite balanced with WP7 versus their coverage of WM6. And prior to the all bad stuff we learned at MIX10, they were hyping it quite a bit themselves.
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
I'm feeling kinda torn with regards to WP7s. On the one hand I love the UI and the integration, on the other I hate the lock down. Not just the software lock down but also the hardware lock down. It's what I hated about the Iphone, and it's what I hate about WP7s. Granted, there's gonna be more variety with WP7s, but it's constrained variety.
When I first saw WP7s I was certain my next phone would be with that OS. Now I'm not so sure...
Regards
havox22 said:
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
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They've completely re-done the UI. Allowing copy & paste would mean they would need to re-implement it from scratch. Besides that, as far as I know the WP7 menus are limited to max. 4 entries so they figured out it doesn't really fit in....
yeah I feel you guys about the copy and paste even though I hardly use it, but my honest opinion about it is that microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all. The issues mentioned at the bottom of my original post pose far bigger issues than having copy and paste. But as I mentioned in my OP, I don't think MS intentionally got rid of the stuff we like, I think they tried to integrate something that is better, something for the end user instead of the the heavy user. If thats their ideal customer(everyday users), then yes, Automatic multitasking trumps the task manager style multitasking: active copy paste is useless. I guess...lol
BEGIN RANT/
On a different note, on the innovation side Android reminds me alot of the old WM. Palm/WebOS is a different beast all together. Nokia/Symbian owns majority market share even though its hardly innovative, Iphone has been largely innovative (face it...it is) and is the number 2 OS followed by WM. Image that as a marketer. There are like a million different types of WM phones made by dozens of different manufacturers and somehow they lose market share in 4-5 years to 1 phone made by 1 developer. How is that possible? There is something to be said for massive over-saturation and its effectiveness (NOKIA...I'm looking at you) but as far making hand over fist money, how can you not just look at Apple and say "genius?" 1 phone, locked down, hated by so many, number 2 marketshare in the world. I think if WM is going to get on top they have to attack Apple. Attacking Android does nothing...honestly I think pushing WM 6.5 beats android (Personal opinion) WP7 has to take those Iphone users away from apple. So they have to offer not just something similar, they have to offer something BETTER. So yeah, High level of social integration is BETTER, Simplistic design and text based smooth UI is BETTER, Stronger Hardware BETTER, Xbox integration and heavy game centric focus is BETTER. The Iphone is the enemy here. In order to beat Apple it has to be BETTER at what it does. So, we wont see 8 HTC WP7 phones every year (since there is no point considering WP7's high standards)...thats a good thing. WP7 is putting out a clear and sweeping OS that has one message WE ARE BETTER. I think the average user will be sucked away from Iphone back into Windows because Windows is totally committed to bring a user experience that is uniform across all platforms. If I have a PC and an XBox...WP7 is a no brainer. 23 Million XBox users...thats a lot of people. RANT END/
Thats all my personal opinion though. Butler youre right about not being able to set certain programs as default. As MS is using BING to search, and IE for internet etc....I don't think you'll be able to switch it to opera on the fly. But you can always just select Opera from the programs list or just tag it to HUBs and just select it from there. Although I believe that with the fact that MS has been sued recently in EU for not offering people a choice for their browsing for their PC I'm confident in saying that Opera might still have the option to set at default (as it currently does). We will see though. Its kinda a stretch to relate PC to WP7 as is because its still in rough beta.
~style1~
style1 said:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
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This makes sense. People will often require a number of features from a phone and unless it ticks those boxes extra features are not important.
"Windows Phone 7" is missing a lot of basic features. If they are not important to you, good for you, but you seem to be in two minds about that. When there are a lot of decent phone OSes on the market you shouldn't have much need to compromise.
well yeah of course, but its not like any of these features are totally missing...they've just been reinvented or reinvisioned, so to speak. I look it it this way, why do I copy and paste? Because I want to take info from one program and transfer it or send it to another. MS has determined (again, I'm sure the put some R&D into it) that most people don't even use it so much so they created a NEW system that allows you to do basically the exact same thing, take info and transfer it, without all the fuss. Its still copying and pasting. I dunno. I believe innovation something to embrace, it moves the industry foward. Because all these guys compete for our business they drive each other bigger and better. But it seems that keeping up with the old outdated ideas is all that people care about. I mean, the Iphone doesnt NEED copy and paste. It functioned just as well without it. The big problem with it was they had NO alternative to make people say oh well thats just as good. So what do they do? They add vanilla copy and paste. Consumers drive innovation in that sense. My wife for the life of her can't understand this huge hype about multitasking. She believes her Iphone is just fine. She can listen to music, she gets her push notifications when she needs them...shes a happy camper. She doesn't get it. I try to explain to her how its important, but regardless she wont get it because it doesn't fit her lifestyle. How many people does something like that matter to, honestly? I get MS' approach....it makes sense. The average consumer would rather have things be simple, would rather have things done for them; than actively doing them for themselves. The exception to this is WebOS because its driven by the idea of multitasking. And how innovative is that. The homescreen is the taskmanager. Its a great way to make the idea of actively managing open apps seem like it is something that you are in control of, not like WM or android (where you just get massive lag) where it seems like the open programs are something thats controlling you.
Different strokes for different folks though. But hey remember how many of those basic required features that the original Iphone launched with? lol Looking back it was laughable how fail that phone was, but it sold out the stores like a champ. Its not about the basic features. Its about the innovation behind it. Apple invented the wheel all over again. MS has to invent the V8.
~style1~
Personally, I was looking forward to WP7.
But:
1) No Multi-Tasking (I don't count push notifications as multi-tasking)
2) No Copy/Paste
3) No removable Storage
4) No 'Use as USB device'
Are pretty big dealbreakers for me. These were all things in favor over the iPhone (except c&p since last year), and now they're going to handicap us :|
Thanks for being a voice of reason style
sevenprx,
windows does have their own take on C&P as well as multitasking. It in fact does do both, just not in the way thats been the industry standard so people are considering it NOT there even though it clearly is. I believe you should check out engadget where they do have a few good articles and clips.
1) Copy and Paste Here (even with the misleading headline its informative)
2) multitasking HERE
3) Removable storage is a big issue. I think most will be appeased by massive 32 gig phones but alot (myself included) of people wont. But in terms of solving problems it saves a few headaches for MS in the development process. I do believe MS told us during the keynote (or somewhere during that time, I cannot remember) that developers can have internal SD for more memory, but it is kinda a bummer for me to not have removable Cards. Its basically to keep this phone as unhackable as possible.
4) No use as a USB device...this too is a killer, as I mentioned earlier I do use my phone to store info on. Its a daily thing. Since I can't access my phone through activesync it makes all this info useless. Its like they only want use USB to move photos and music...THATS IT. I'm not sure if thats the best strategy but, for those to whom this is dealbreaker for, they are probably happy as sheep with 6.5 so it won't be too much of a deal for MS. Which of course still makes the HD2 an extremely viable phone at one helluva price.
~style~
Thanks mazzarin
I'm still looking forward to WP7. It has a lot of very intriguing features and I like the look of the UI.
As far as multi-tasking goes it will work with my needs. I can alway have a webpage up in the background, I can alway have music playing in the background. Any core feature of the UI like calls, SMS, email can all run the the background and one 3rd party app. Honestly, I hardly ever use multiple 3rd party apps to begin with.
I don't use copy and paste very much. I think I can say I've used it about 5 times since I've had my device and honestly it was so much of a pain to use that a couple of those time I gave up and just wrote it down and re-typed it.
I would really live to have removable storage. I just hope phones with 32GB flash come out. I can fill 8GB pretty easily.
I use my phone as a USB device a lot just to transfer big files. This is honestly one of the biggest things I don't like.
Look, I'm all for defending Microsoft but the one thing you glossed over is the one real dealbreaker.
No copy and paste? How basic yet essential is that? If you've only used it 5 times in 5 years I don't know what you've been doing with your phone, but other people bought a phone with Outlook and Office and web browsers for a reason. Data detection is not going to let me email a paragraph or search for a sentence.
"Multitasking": No problem, pause the apps for when I come back to them. I don't have to close them myself, cool.
No USB file access: Pain in the neck, sucks for us, but if we store only files that apps on the phone handle (music, documents, etc) then at least we can still use the device as intended. It just won't be a flash drive
No removable card: Very stupid since I do actually pull out the card.. but the truth is that most people don't. MS and app developers have a much easier time knowing that the storage is always a part of the device, and they also don't have to be so scared of piracy. So it really really sucks that we can't expand storage, but at least the phone will still work.
So when you combine those last two, our main difficulty is moving files on and off the phone.. but it will sync files to our own accounts fine at least. even wirelessly. So the phone is still usable. But copy/paste? The phone is CRIPPLED without it
again, what as I said before, I actually did sit in on an conversation and demo where there same things you're saying about copy and paste were presented to the demo operators. Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS.
Honestly just like multitasking, its a non intrusive way of doing what people do anyway. And yes I have only used multitasking maybe 5 times. I honestly just don't need the feature. I mean, hell as there are millions of Iphone users what they were doing with their phones for the longest. It just isn't important to me. I use outlook, use push, I use Office and the web browsers but I never had to copy anything. I handle P&L's, I keep many office documents and I prepare powerpoint presentations as well having my phone linked to corporate accounts that I use to send this information out on a system wide level. I haven't seen the use for copy and paste because honestly I send complete documents so I only need fowarding.... Occasionally I may just copy an email account and paste it into my recipients list but WP7 is capable of doing this...I witnessed it myself.
~style1~
Very rationale styles1. I like your thinking with some valid points. I still believe that wm has been around this long because of xda and every developer and user that uses their brain to tweak and modify to each individuals liking, including ms/htc and xda developers. Taking this away, takes the dignity away from ms and xda users. i have been a long time wm user since i was a kid back in the early 80s. the ONLY reason i don't have an iphone and not jumped ship like my dad, sister, brother in law, friends is because of the features that wm has had over the years. the ability to cut & paste, the ability to use storage cards, the ability to control the phone. I use all these features. Not every day, but I use them. And it's more than 5 times in 5 years. I guarantee everybody on here, and probably yourself, would be lyng if you said just 5 times. Try 10 or 20 times, but how is your memory so good and that you can count with your fingers to just 5. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue. These simple/essential things are actually quite vital to the average xda user like myself. I've read thousands of messages on here from chainfire, to abu, to duty, to dave shaw, mskipp and to every other developer on here. They are my true heroes, they have made the wm phone viable, with dignity. For an analogy, you can drive a cadilac or a mercedes. But your gonna tweak up a hyndai or honda and tell me it's the same and gonna be better than a mercedes. If honda were gonna tweak up there car and charge 75,000 and say they are just as good, then I'm just gonna buy one. hmmm. we (ms) is competeing against iphones? are we really competing against them, or are we competing against ourselves (wm 7 vs wm 6.5/6.0/5.0...) To take away all these essentials, would be taking away life. Variety and Substance is the essential part of life. I hate e-readers, yet I don't like reading books either. However, I'd rather read a book where I can locate a page, then read off an e-reader. I think XDA developers and the common user like myself have spoken loud and clearly, there are really no winners in this case. This is not your win-win scenario......What do I know, I'm just a geeky medical doctor writing with no substance.
well I didn't originally say only five times...I said maybe 5 times. I'm not a fun user I'm mostly a heavy poweruser. But as most of the people on here I am extremely mod heavy. So yeah, I get it. But developers here will still be able to use this site for 6.5 as well as 7. People have to understand a couple things first and foremost. First, if developers don't support WP7, WP7 won't move foward. They can also support 6.5 as well as WP7 and not have to PICK SIDES. This isn't about "oh they got rid of features I need, FAIL" this is about a platform as a whole. 6.5 isn't going anywhere soon. Keep it alive but embrace the future as well. I don't like the thinking that goes into a lot of the bashing that happens. I mean if we're going to use cars for examples let me throw one out there.
I used to drive a Ford Fusion, when it rained I would turn on my wind shield wipers. Last year I upgraded to a E class Mercedes...now when it rains my windshield wipers turn themselves on. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about something so trivial as to turn the wipers on and then get them at a pace that isn't excessive or less than what current rain speed is. Its a system that reacts to whats happening around it and assumes the likely reaction.
I think thats similar to the changes WP7 is making to amend some of the issues with WM6+. But of course thats just my opinion.
I personally, however, hope that developers here don't just shun WP7 because its different and embrace it as an opportunity to develop for a new platform, increase their product visibility and most important to make revenue off of their hard work. Donations are fine but being able to actually get paid for your work makes for a new scenarios that aren't currently available to developer here at XDA and as we all know money drives innovation.
~style1~
style1 said:
Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS
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No sir, no... I don't know what your definition of 'almost' is but I know that by definition "smartlinking" only works on structured data.. phone numbers, addresses, etc. If I wanted to paste another quote from your comment right here --> there's absolutely no way for smartlinking to do that.
Copy/Paste. Why does anyone even need to be arguing and making excuses for this? It's just basic and shouldn't have had to be left out or delayed. They have so many ways to implement it
if you read my post 6 i actually talk about what I saw in a live demo...actually I'll just quote it for ease of reading(I guess i will use copy and paste just for the hell of it....lol):
"microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all."
So yeah, I agree with you 100%...its not true copy and paste. It is however an alternative. And I know no matter what microsoft does, if they miss one step it comes out to be a deal breaker. But come-on, This is pushing it. I honestly sat there and watched almost (again I say almost) every copy and paste feature put to test, and the only thing it cannot do (copy from browser to insert elsewhere) ends up being like the worlds biggest issue. I have brought up some other FAAAAAAAR bigger issues, as well as provided some good reasoning and insight as to a lot of other system functions and we keep coming back to this extremely small issue. I honestly didn't know that so many people copy and paste from the browser. According to MS, people just don't do that, but apparently all the people who "do do that" are all on XDA...lol. But I guess that makes you right, though, people should be able to copy from the browser and paste elsewhere. Unfortunately WP7 won't support that at launch. What else can I say?
~style1~
No they don't provide an alternative, they provide alternatives to some use cases. No, copy from browser to insert elsewhere isn't the only use case, there have been numerous examples I won't copy here, you're just not paying attention to what people say.
No there aren't bigger issues as many of those can be resolved by hacking. C&P can't.
I personally find copy and paste indispensable and use it daily. One of the places I use it is to copy the website address and paste it into my mail and share it with my friends. Sometimes, I also copy of some useful information from the website to save it into my note application for future references. Then there are some forums that I visit daily where the only way to reply with quote is to highlight and copy the portion of the post first. Bottom line is copy and paste is completely necessary. MS has not done the research thoroughly or given it enough thoughts IMO.
As to multitasking, I almost always have more than one third party programs running. One of the scenarios is to listen to my favourite internet radio (which are oversea stations sometimes) while reading my 1000+ entries in my RSS google reader newsreader application.
Let's hope MS read these posts and come to their senses.
I've never had the stand alone zune player but im not sure how this will work.
If we cant have our own memory cards (altho i've read theres a htc phone coming that has a microsd card slot on it?) how are we going to load our personal mp3's that we have on our computers or whereever onto our windows phone 7 devices?
its to my understanding that you cant use the phone as a usb mass storage device, and you cant take the memory cards out anymore will we be forced to buy music out of the store or will we still be able to load our own music, videos and pics from our computers or where ever else they may be?
deadwrong03 said:
I've never had the stand alone zune player but im not sure how this will work.
If we cant have our own memory cards (altho i've read theres a htc phone coming that has a microsd card slot on it?) how are we going to load our personal mp3's that we have on our computers or whereever onto our windows phone 7 devices?
its to my understanding that you cant use the phone as a usb mass storage device, and you cant take the memory cards out anymore will we be forced to buy music out of the store or will we still be able to load our own music, videos and pics from our computers or where ever else they may be?
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Yes you can load your own music thru the zune software that will be on your computer.
It's similar to how iPods/iPhones use iTunes to sync media. You just use the Zune desktop app instead. It's rather nice IMO.
RustyGrom said:
It's similar to how iPods/iPhones use iTunes to sync media. You just use the Zune desktop app instead. It's rather nice IMO.
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Very nice besides some countries will not enjoy ability to buy music from Zune just
because of MS idiotic policies.
doministry said:
Very nice besides some countries will not enjoy ability to buy music from Zune just
because of MS idiotic policies.
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It's not MS idiotic policies. It's the complexity of selling digital music. The thing is, you have to negotiate with every content owner (of which there are hundreds, these aren't always the labels even) the rights to sell in each individual country. It's one hell of a mess. Apple didn't launch iTunes store first because he got the idea first. There's a lot of caution, suspicion and fear in the media industry towards digital distribution and tech industry, and Jobs personally is an exception because he founded Pixar, thus media czars consider him one of theirs. It's all irrational and stupid, but that's the way it is.
vangrieg said:
It's not MS idiotic policies. It's the complexity of selling digital music. The thing is, you have to negotiate with every content owner (of which there are hundreds, these aren't always the labels even) the rights to sell in each individual country. It's one hell of a mess. Apple didn't launch iTunes store first because he got the idea first. There's a lot of caution, suspicion and fear in the media industry towards digital distribution and tech industry, and Jobs personally is an exception because he founded Pixar, thus media czars consider him one of theirs. It's all irrational and stupid, but that's the way it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well IT IS MS stupid policy too.
Apparently ChannelClassics did not have any problem with it
and I can just download whatever I want from there.
But the giant MS can't make it? Please!
They just don't want to move their asses to change it
because other countries have it apparently.
doministry said:
But the giant MS can't make it? Please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, first of all, yes, it's more difficult for MS to negotiate terms with labels than with a small service labels can always kill/swallow. They still dream to control the distribution one day, and they don't like big brands standing between them and your money.
Secondly, if they are lazy and don't want to move their assess it's not a policy, it's inefficiency and ineffectiveness. Also bad, but a different beast.
Thirdly, I don't know what ChannelClassics is, but if they are selling classical music it's much easier.
vangrieg said:
Well, first of all, yes, it's more difficult for MS to negotiate terms with labels than with a small service labels can always kill/swallow. They still dream to control the distribution one day, and they don't like big brands standing between them and your money.
Secondly, if they are lazy and don't want to move their assess it's not a policy, it's inefficiency and ineffectiveness. Also bad, but a different beast.
Thirdly, I don't know what ChannelClassics is, but if they are selling classical music it's much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, let's call it lazyness for now. It's still a "policy"
If Zune music purchases aren't working on the device, why the **** do I need this
"hub" or or it's name for, and this huge noise about it? That Zune is so magnificent?
So it's basically the same as WMP on WM 6.x but follwed with buzz around it. Pathetic
It pisses me off.
doministry said:
If Zune music purchases aren't working on the device, why the **** do I need this
"hub" or or it's name for, and this huge noise about it? That Zune is so magnificent?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, first and foremost, it's a media player, so you can use it as such. It'll show you the library, recently played stuff, newly added stuff etc. No particular usefullness in that, just a player. And quite a decent one at that.
Secondly, the hub will show podcast subscriptions if you use those. I do.
Thirdly, it's a hub because it can be extended by third party applications - i.e. streaming players, other media players, YouTube stuff, don't know what will be there exactly.
Ability to purchase music and videos and the subscription service will be missing in most countries, maybe even for years to come, unless the whole scene changes (which may well happen, it should happen somehow, these things just take time, it's just difficult to judge from outside as everything is taking place behind closed doors).
But then again, I personally don't worry much about it. If out of fear and doubt content providers refuse to sell content to me legally (which is what's happening right now), well, I know where to get it. WP7, just like the iPhone, doesn't prevent you from using, let's say, alternative sources in any way. If they finally come to senses and start selling music to me legally, I'll start buying it from them.
And overall, why did you decide to get upset about the Zune service when WP7 as a whole just isn't available to you in the first place?
vangrieg said:
Well, first and foremost, it's a media player, so you can use it as such. It'll show you the library, recently played stuff, newly added stuff etc. No particular usefullness in that, just a player. And quite a decent one at that.
Secondly, the hub will show podcast subscriptions if you use those. I do.
Thirdly, it's a hub because it can be extended by third party applications - i.e. streaming players, other media players, YouTube stuff, don't know what will be there exactly.
Ability to purchase music and videos and the subscription service will be missing in most countries, maybe even for years to come, unless the whole scene changes (which may well happen, it should happen somehow, these things just take time, it's just difficult to judge from outside as everything is taking place behind closed doors).
But then again, I personally don't worry much about it. If out of fear and doubt content providers refuse to sell content to me legally (which is what's happening right now), well, I know where to get it. WP7, just like the iPhone, doesn't prevent you from using, let's say, alternative sources in any way. If they finally come to senses and start selling music to me legally, I'll start buying it from them.
And overall, why did you decide to get upset about the Zune service when WP7 as a whole just isn't available to you in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe true, I should wait for WP7 release in Poland.
doministry said:
Well IT IS MS stupid policy too.
Apparently ChannelClassics did not have any problem with it
and I can just download whatever I want from there.
But the giant MS can't make it? Please!
They just don't want to move their asses to change it
because other countries have it apparently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(after a quick google) Channel Classics is a record label that sells classicl music that is not encumbered with any copyrights. Copyright restrictions are the sole reason why this is a problem. You can't compare a label selling classical music to a music distributor/retailer selling modern music.
I am currently in this dilemma, so I just wanted to put my thoughts out there(not trying to start a flame war here) and also (hopefully) get some thoughts from current wp7 users.
My biggest deterrent from wp7 is device quality, all the manufacturers seem to have been very careful not to step on MS's toes for the start, though MWC may change that(hopefully the new devices would be different from the same system and we may see tegra 2 or the new MSM chip, which looks absolutely amazing I must add)
The things that attract me specifically to the OS is the new UI, as it is finally a shift from the more symbian type of UI.
The downside is that some of the parts of the OS are unfinished, no threaded messages, socket support is a no show. Simply put, as it is now, it is amazing BUT, it is also flawed.
Android now has a far more mature OS which is feature complete. But the UI is still very similar to the old main menu with a grid of icons. Yes, there are widgets but, it can get a bit cluttered and, unlike the current symbian, they can be in different styles.
Hardware on the otherhand is absolutely amazing, the nexus s would easily go up there as a device of choice!
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department.
Apps is once again a maturity argument, though I do want to support luma arcade ( South African devs) and the fact that I know c# means that I could make something myself is a plus side.
That bit though was just opinion.
In the end it is pretty much looking to be device quality that is keeping me away from wp7 though. If all goes to plan it will be a platform that can hang with Android in terms of usability, though it still needs a bit to get there.
Android on the other hand has basically only one device that would intrest me as I wouldn't want to be left out of the official loop.
I know that xda does cook roms for Android devices, but I like that to be a secondary option(once again opinion)
To explain my thoughts I think I need to add what I am using now as a phone.
Nokia 5800 Xpressmusic with C6 firmware as a base. Then I took a whole bunch of other mods and cooked them into my own personal firmware.
I don't have the experience( or at this moment need) to make my own mods.
I like tweaking it to get the best performace and usability while still looking as good as possible and am very willing to sacrifice a looks for usability.
(Once again I really just want this to be an outsiders view on choosing between the two)
EDIT: Looks like I was wrong in that threaded messaging does exist on wp7, just not in email.
Gee, only the fifth thread this week on the exact same subject. Despite there being a thread right above it aptly titled Android vs WP7.
Whatever you can afford and makes you happy my friend. Go for it. These are exciting times.
Just to correct one point you made, there are currently threaded messages in WP7 and they work great.
I've used both android and wp7 and I prefer wp7, but it's probably because I hate having to get custom roms etc. I spent literally tens of hours attempting to customise my android device to my liking but never managed it. In my opinion, the wp7 homescreen gives me all the info i need at a glance - better than I could ever make my android handset.
But it sounds like you like to tinker and customise, so I'm not sure if WP7 will be able to keep you interested for the long haul until custom roms become available
Use what you think will work best for you, in the end, i reckon both are great OSes
i believe he was referring to email threading.
if you have time to wait, see what gets announced at MWC. there is rumour of some pretty big stuff coming, but who knows if its just minor software/more hardware.
Android gives more options in many ways today.
I had the same dillema but have chosen different solution: I stay with WinMo for some time.
Because I can't stand Android UI. Really.Too much candy.
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.
You like to tinker with your phone then I think you better suit with Android.
I'm afraid if you buy WP7 now, you will be disappointed.
doministry said:
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This about sums it up. Are there features missing in WP7? Absolutely. I won't get into it here, check out out one of the flame wars in the other threads. BUT...what WP7 does, it does exceptionally well. You need to decide if you can live with its shortcomings. If you can't, then get another platform. If you can, then definitely get WP7. It will blow you away. But that's a big "if", and be certain about it. Do your research and make an informed decision or end up like one of the disgruntled curmudgeons in this forum.
-R
Thank you for all the replies, I think waiting a month or two to see what happens won't kill me.
For living with shortcomings of an operating system, I use symbian on old hardware and actually enjoy it so, I can easily survive a missing feature or two in return for performance.
Info at a glance is a great thing, and when I tinkered on the emulator it seemed as if it had depth to it as well ( my iPod touch on the other hand has the depth of a puddle in a drought, : none)
These are exiting times indeed! Now I just read another article implying nokia might make wp7 phones. That would be very intresting indeed.
yea, though i think it will be quite some time before this happens but who knows. anyways, what i'd suggest is just head to your local store and see if you can play with one, check out the messaging, people, photos, xbox, zune, and office hubs and see what the phone is all about. but yes there are missing features. another 7 or 8 months isn't the best thing to wait for, but aye, we waited this long and i'm happy with what i got.
Well, no stores have stock in South Africa. It is a special order, which would mean that I would anyway import my own at a lower cost.
But you are right. Being able to use the device itself would be the best thing.
Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.
mmelo76 said:
Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
might just be easier to ban tomhierl from wp7 threads and you would clear up 90% of the abuse and flames in one hit.
As to the original question it really depends on what you want from the phone as they are no a direct competition for each other other than both being smart phones.
Android is amazing for openess features customization but lacks in style smoothness apps that take advantage of the power on most devices (still feel old but work ok) and its music ability is pretty dire.
WP7 plus is its style smoothness use of hubs (you have to use them to realize how great they are (and no the fact that other phones mix up you contacts and facebook is not the same thing)) its music features are far beyond anything on the market inc iphone in fact makes iphone look old in this area and its xbox live integration (there is already a cross platform mulit-player game in the market and thats just a sign of whats to come) what you do lack is certain features some high end users need like tethering and mass storage etc
So the question shouldnt be what one is best but what one is best for you, I say go try a demo of wp7 it really is something new and refreshing.
lumpaywk, I understand what you're saying.
However I believe people can mature and improve.
Although the user that you commented cause flames, other users who respond to provocation are as guilty as he.
If only one claim and ignore the others and tells moderation, it's easy, go there and issue a ban.
Now when a user calls and the others start a fight, what can I do? Ban for everyone? Of course not.
As I reported in other forums, I always try to clarify my views on the subject and then put the warning.
Thereafter, any user who does not heed the advice, either by starting a fight or to continue it, will be issued an infraction, not accepting and continuing in error, then a ban.
I always try to guide and give some chance, only if he do not understand this and I'll ban is persisting.
You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.
Tone_ said:
You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me. But I can only temper what is done on the XDA and I am notified.
can not run the risk of being influenced by research done on google. Though reliable, can highlight only one side of the story of the people, perhaps the worst.
I prefer to follow my systematic already established and that is getting results. Nor am I the only one moderator, and can be advised by other Comite or Seniors, so I must restrict myself to what I see here on XDA forum, without external reference!
Still, I appreciate your help and research, will certainly be very useful for all of us in moderation!
i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
cenkaetaya said:
i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something I can actually help with!
For this, you would have to make sure(obviously) that the cd has all it's tags for the same album. If not, then just make an album called mix cd 1 or something and put all the songs in that.
OR
Make a playlist with those songs in and sync.
Michael_W_L said:
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was reading that MS will control updates, not relying on the service providers. I think that is a very good thing. My HTC Vogue never got a single update from Bell. However, HTC did have updates, I just had to go find them. If MS maintians control, updates should reach the users much faster.
cenkaetaya said:
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
though there is no direct search, under music, go across to songs and use the letter blocks for quick jumps to the song you want to play (as if you would in the people's hub).
I haven't done so myself, but based on what I see in the playlists section, you should be able to make playlists off Zune Desktop, and sync the playlist to your phone. this should help, but yea there is no direct "play folder", but if you have the tags setup as mentioned before, they appear in albums, or create a playlist. But i think they need to improve it a bit more so you can create a playlist on the phone too.
There's been a lot of negativity lately, I thought I would start a thread about the things I love about wp7. The things that make it the obvious choice for me.
I know I've been one of the ones being loudly vocal about negative stuff, so I thought I would try and balance it a bit.
Interface
Let's get this one out of the way cause it's kind of obvious.
I think wp7's interface is the next gen of smartphones. It's what initially attracted me to the platform. I believe above ALL else, UI is most important.
Above apps, above features, above anything... UI matters the most. Because it's how you will be interacting with your device while using those features.
And Microsoft absolutely nailed this one. Homer'd it out of the park. There is nothing like it right now on the market. It won't be like that forever cause competition breeds great product, but right now, it's top of the line.
People hub
I just pulled up a college buddy of mine. Under his name it says:
text mobile
call mobile
call home
write on wall
send email
map home address
view website
I can't get over how it just takes everything and gathers it into one spot. It's sooo easy. A perk that always impresses me, no matter how many times I use it. Again, next-gen thinking.
Remote locking/messaging/ringing/tracking
This one is the top seller. I don't think I'll ever switch mainly just for this reason.
I can, at any time, log into a website and make my phone ring, flash a message on the screen, lock it, erase it, and most importantly, GPS track it. Amazing.
And it actually concerns me that my wife's iPhone doesn't have that.
Then of course there was the story about the golfer who tracked his phone when it was in fact stolen, and got it back. Fantastic. These are features that are innovative and should be stock.
Just in case MS has some media-watchers reading forums, I just wanted to show them a little love.
what brought me to wp7 is multimedia functionality:
1. slingbox
2. netflix
3. zune
4. slacker
5. podcasts including video podcasts autosynced
6. Bitbop is interesting
7. More internet videos play for me than on winmo
Also of course it the interesting UI.
I also like the fact that there are devs willing to develop for it unlike on winmo.
Games are much better than on winmo and having all programs/apps in one centralized place is great. I have no problems throwing a couple bucks at games and apps that I want.
sure haven't said:
I can, at any time, log into a website and make my phone ring, flash a message on the screen, lock it, erase it, and most importantly, GPS track it. Amazing.
And it actually concerns me that my wife's iPhone doesn't have that.
Then of course there was the story about the golfer who tracked his phone when it was in fact stolen, and got it back. Fantastic. These are features that are innovative and should be stock.
Just in case MS has some media-watchers reading forums, I just wanted to show them a little love.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you need to talk with your wife because you can definitely do all that with the iPhone. As of one of the newest firmwares (not sure which one maybe 4.2.1) you can download a free app from the marketplace to set it up, or just do it through iTunes and the MobileMe website both for free. When I was setting my new iPhone up the other day it prompted me to set up the feature and it took like 2 seconds. Now I can log into a website, track my iPhone, wipe it, etc just like I could on WP7 (this has actually been a feature of the iPhone for awhile, but you had to pay a subscription for MobileMe to use it so it was kinda of a downer).
As for the rest of your points I agree 100%. WP7 UI is beautiful (as long as the developers create their icons to take advantage of the theming) and Facebook integration is amazing. I think WP7 is a strong contender for the smartphone market with its new acquisition of 10,000 apps just as long as Microsoft gets over these current update woes and delivers some good useful features.
ErikWithNoC said:
I think you need to talk with your wife because you can definitely do all that with the iPhone. As of one of the newest firmwares (not sure which one maybe 4.2.1) you can download a free app from the marketplace to set it up, or just do it through iTunes and the MobileMe website both for free. When I was setting my new iPhone up the other day it prompted me to set up the feature and it took like 2 seconds. Now I can log into a website, track my iPhone, wipe it, etc just like I could on WP7 (this has actually been a feature of the iPhone for awhile, but you had to pay a subscription for MobileMe to use it so it was kinda of a downer).
As for the rest of your points I agree 100%. WP7 UI is beautiful (as long as the developers create their icons to take advantage of the theming) and Facebook integration is amazing. I think WP7 is a strong contender for the smartphone market with its new acquisition of 10,000 apps just as long as Microsoft gets over these current update woes and delivers some good useful features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is fairly new though. My mom got suckered into paying 100 bucks for mobile me and they are not giving refunds for hosing people.
The things I like about the phone are:
The large fonts. Great for people like me that have failing eye-sight.
A clean, uncluttered user interface.
Zune music/video. Love the bio on the music groups when it has it.
Xbox 360 access. Sending a message to my son to his Xbox 360 acct. is priceless.
Partial Excel and Word feature usage (something is better than nothing).
FAST and responsive menus.
Love the PEOPLE tile option. I like that Facebook is integrated with it.
Netflix and Youtube usage is great too.
Voice commands for phoning people or doing lookups is really terrific.
widely published articles like this don't help the platform, regardless of their accuracy. don't shoot the messenger.
~~~
(quote)
Goodbye, Nokia Lumia 800: £400 and one month on, it didn't work out
It's only when you live with a new phone that you discover whether you like it or not. From love at first sight, Nokia's new Windows Phone offering has turned out to be not so enthralling. Want to buy a used phone?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/dec/30/nokia-lumia-800-goodbye
~~~
from the article-
But Tell Me, Windows Phone's voice recognition app is hard-wired into Bing. Do a search in that mode and it won't use Google. As a result, I don't trust the answers and would revert back to keying in the query on Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
karan1203 said:
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed...how someone could say they trust Google over Bing is beyond me.
This is just one guys oppinion, those Luminas sold, a buch of people went out and got them and swear by them. I am a Windows fan no dout but he failed to point out what really makes WP not all that great like WM. Sure Windows Phone is better than WM in the sense that it doesn't freez up as much and it is more pretty but WM gave the user more choices and the ability to actually do useful stuff on it. I agree that Zune sucks ass and don't understand why MS went the iPhone route on it with it's lame limitations, I mean come on; are you [email protected] me, you can't even send or receive MMS message that include Audio/Video (Only pictures) my old crappy WM6.1 could do that and how along ago was that? Hopefuly people are right when they say to give it a chance because the OS is only 2 years old for Windows Phone sake if they really ever plan to make it in the long run. We will have to see what Tango or Apollo brings but quite frankly there is a reason why people write negative rviews about the phone, MS needs to start listening to people instead of telling what they can and can't do.
Is it a coincidence all the smartphone articles I see from the Guardian are negative? negative news = mass page hits from whomever you pissed off. My take...
(FWIW alot of the Guardian articles I have been linked to were RIM related, so I may only see one side of it. Lol)
karan1203 said:
What a dumb thing to say. Don't trust bing? Yeah its all a conspiracy out to brainwash you
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice spin. It was fairly obvious that when the author wrote about "trust" it is about accuracy and completeness of data. I don't trust Bing, because more often than not it delivers sub-par results, whether that is an address search, or a subject-matter query. I cannot rely on Bing to give me the results I need consistently, so I go back to Google every time.
Blacklac said:
Is it a coincidence all the smartphone articles I see from the Guardian are negative? negative news = mass page hits from whomever you pissed off. My take...
(FWIW alot of the Guardian articles I have been linked to were RIM related, so I may only see one side of it. Lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its the guardian
its complete crap. I have yet to read one article about anything worth mentioning from the guardian. It's like both the guardian and sun may as well be in tow for awful reporting and sensationalism
that's some wank article! - the shameful thing is some Steve Jobs' pet has written something that's shared over 1000 times combined on twitter and facebook!
Surely was written on a hung over morning or a drunken night. He is just a journalist. SEE what the actual TECHY people say - http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/why-i-dont-want-an-iphone-any-more-50006257/?tag=mncol;txt
Embiggens said:
from the article-
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hang on, this isn't odd behaviour at all. I'm the exact same way. Why?
Because again and again, Bing is wrong about stuff.
Map locations being the worst. We went to Ottawa over Christmas. I entered my sister's address into Bing maps, and it showed them as living downtown... about 30km away.
Google maps was correct, and I had to type in less info.
When I'm in my city, I go to Bing, and I type in something like "123 Cedar", it will return things like "Cedar Pine Resort" or "1-2-3 Lawn Care". Useless.
It also fails to come up with some simple results when searching for things, whereas Google seems to just know what you're looking for. Sorry, but Google is a superior product in every conceivable way. I love wp, but I never ever use Bing.
sure haven't said:
Hang on, this isn't odd behaviour at all. I'm the exact same way. Why?
Because again and again, Bing is wrong about stuff.
Map locations being the worst. We went to Ottawa over Christmas. I entered my sister's address into Bing maps, and it showed them as living downtown... about 30km away.
Google maps was correct, and I had to type in less info.
When I'm in my city, I go to Bing, and I type in something like "123 Cedar", it will return things like "Cedar Pine Resort" or "1-2-3 Lawn Care". Useless.
It also fails to come up with some simple results when searching for things, whereas Google seems to just know what you're looking for. Sorry, but Google is a superior product in every conceivable way. I love wp, but I never ever use Bing.
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In the UK, specifically London, Bing maps is spot on, even on the inner streets of the city! Guardian's fanboy surely was in UK while reviewing the phone!
^ are your location settings correct?
Sent from my Nexus S
Embiggens said:
from the article-
This (strange) comment really belies how biased this 'review' is. Toss this article into the heap of fanboy posts. How is this on the guardian website, are they stooping to link-bait articles?
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Microsoft's search engines are not their forte`. Even their WP7 Marketplace search engine is way sub-par and omits many results. It requires a user to be very specific about what they are trying to find. Google's search engine is Google's forte`. Google's whole business is centered on their search engine. It's natural that their search system would be better and more trustworthy.
Microsoft's forte` is the PC OS and they are world class with it. None others can compete with them...not even Apple. But Microsoft's Bing Maps and nav are better than Google's...in my opinion. And also WP7 is better than the best smartphone system, the iPhone. So Microsoft can compete in many ways. But the search engine is not one of them. They have some serious work to do to even approach Google's.
vetvito said:
^ are your location settings correct?
Sent from my Nexus S
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Please go on
I think he's got some valid points. I can't believe the single global volume setting hasn't been fixed a year after launch (how hard can it be to have separate "media" volume setting for Zune and other apps). Likewise I too don't trust the accuracy of the Bing search and so have resorted to a Google tile pinned to my start screen.
It's too easy to dismiss this as a fanboy review (some of his complaints are personal/misguided [e.g. timer app being tombstoned means it hasn't been "Mango'ised"] and won't affect everyone) but I sympathise with his whole "lack of trust" issue because I went through the same exercise with an Android phone (battery draining for no reason, slow response/lag, difficulty accessing Android market) and it's no fun when you don't want to pick up and use that device you've forked over a good amount of your own money for. Everyone who is being dismissive of this review should bear that last point in mind - this guy wasn't sent a review unit but rather went and bought one with his own cash out of excitement. I think that should get him a little respite from the "fanboi" comments.
It took the reviewer 7 days, lots of googling to figure out that the "arrow" next to the artist is in fact a play button. That says it all really
RoboDad said:
Nice spin. It was fairly obvious that when the author wrote about "trust" it is about accuracy and completeness of data. I don't trust Bing, because more often than not it delivers sub-par results, whether that is an address search, or a subject-matter query. I cannot rely on Bing to give me the results I need consistently, so I go back to Google every time.
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Lol. Agree.
I found this part interesting:
It's actually the quality of the sound output that really lets the Lumia down. For one thing, you only have one volume setting so if you crank the volume up to full (as I have to in my car - or, OK, want to), the ringer ends up at full as well. So every time I unplug it from the car, I have to wind the volume back. That's ignoring the fact that the volume is insultingly quiet. I bought a headphone amplifier, which made a difference, but the resulting sound has little punch or verve, which I think is due to the Lumia, not the app. Something in that bundle of hardware and software is stripping the life out of the music and giving it a sort of pasty, Val Doonican-like quality. The Lumia does not, repeat not, turn your car into a banging urban clubland.
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Because it's been my #1 complaint with WP7 devices since they were released. Too many of them suffer from poor sound.
I need to look for a tear down of some WP7 devices to see what type media hardware these things have in them. The sound is not cute at all, and neither is the management of volume levels for different sound types (Media, RingTone, System, Notifications, etc.).
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
MartyLK said:
Microsoft's search engines are not their forte`. Even their WP7 Marketplace search engine is way sub-par and omits many results. It requires a user to be very specific about what they are trying to find. Google's search engine is Google's forte`. Google's whole business is centered on their search engine. It's natural that their search system would be better and more trustworthy.
Microsoft's forte` is the PC OS and they are world class with it. None others can compete with them...not even Apple. But Microsoft's Bing Maps and nav are better than Google's...in my opinion. And also WP7 is better than the best smartphone system, the iPhone. So Microsoft can compete in many ways. But the search engine is not one of them. They have some serious work to do to even approach Google's.
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No offense, but Bing is not better than Google Maps and Navigation. Not even close.
However, we shall see what the Nokia deal does the strengthen that...
This guy made me laugh when trying to figure out how to use the zune media player. I mean it really is not that hard to use at all, even my 4 year old nephew can use it.
N8ter said:
Lol. Agree.
I found this part interesting:
Because it's been my #1 complaint with WP7 devices since they were released. Too many of them suffer from poor sound.
I need to look for a tear down of some WP7 devices to see what type media hardware these things have in them. The sound is not cute at all, and neither is the management of volume levels for different sound types (Media, RingTone, System, Notifications, etc.).
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
No offense, but Bing is not better than Google Maps and Navigation. Not even close.
However, we shall see what the Nokia deal does the strengthen that...
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No offense taken. I did the tests and came to the conclusion Bing Maps is better...or was, at the time, about 3 or 4 months ago.
Zune is bad? I never had a problem with it. This guy was obviously reaching in order to fill up white space in a dry article. He makes one or 2 good points, the rest is just bull**** and he knows it.