Develop Bugs

No microSD cards in WM7?

reading this from engadget and this is what it says:
No support for microSD cards, though that's partially offset by the requirement for capacious internal storage. Some phones might implement the required internal storage on a microSD card, but it's not supposed to be user-swappable, and if you do switch it out, you'll reset the phone and lose all your data -- but you should be able to get most of it back when you sync with the cloud.
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Is this correct can anyone confirm i think this is relay a disappointing move, i love the minimum 8 gig memory but this really dose put a cap on stuff on your phone, and forcing up to use 3g data plans for cloud syncing, in canada we don`t have any unlimited plans we pay 30$ for 1 gig or data

This is a limitation that puzzles me. Is there some sort of techinical advantage to NOT having a card slot?
This sort of makes me think that WP7 requires external storage to function properly. So having an "optional" card is not an option.

WhyBe said:
This is a limitation that puzzles me. Is there some sort of techinical advantage to NOT having a card slot?
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It may be partly an anti-piracy tactic - make sure that if people pay to download songs from Zune, they can't give them to other people just by taking the memory card out. It's probably also tied to the practice of not allowing any software to be installed unless it's downloaded from the marketplace.
It also allows the phone manufacturers to screw more money out of customers. Look at the price difference between the 32GB iPhone 3GS and the 16GB version. Think the extra memory costs that much to include? Nope. But people who need 32GB have no choice but to pay the premium.

Shasarak said:
It may be partly an anti-piracy tactic - make sure that if people pay to download songs from Zune, they can't give them to other people just by taking the memory card out. It's probably also tied to the practice of not allowing any software to be installed unless it's downloaded from the marketplace.
It also allows the phone manufacturers to screw more money out of customers. Look at the price difference between the 32GB iPhone 3GS and the 16GB version. Think the extra memory costs that much to include? Nope. But people who need 32GB have no choice but to pay the premium.
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Well, stopping piracy is good for everyone. Overcharging me for a few extra GB's is not cool tho.

WhyBe said:
Well, stopping piracy is good for everyone.
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Debatable.

WhyBe said:
Well, stopping piracy is good for everyone.
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not for people that use pirated software lol

Well it's good for them too...they just don't realize it

On the contrary, actually, piracy is good for the industry. Do you think Sony would have sold even 10% of the number of original playstations they actually sold if kids hadn't been constantly swapping burned CD's in the playground?

Shasarak said:
On the contrary, actually, piracy is good for the industry. Do you think Sony would have sold even 10% of the number of original playstations they actually sold if kids hadn't been constantly swapping burned CD's in the playground?
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Sony doesn't make money off of the hardware FYI (or very little). Profits come from software and licensing.
That's really a dumb justification for stealing anyways.

WhyBe said:
Sony doesn't make money off of the hardware FYI (or very little). Profits come from software and licensing.
That's really a dumb justification for stealing anyways.
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Yes, but the point is that once there were a huge number of consoles in use, their owners bought more legitimate software, and more expensive hardware add-ons, so Sony gained financially in the end.
The industry always tries to make out that piracy is immensely damaging, but it does so on the basis of entirely made-up data. They try and get some kind of estimate of how much stuff is downloaded, then work out what that would have sold for if it had all been bought, and then proclaim that they've lost that much money. This is obviously complete bull****, because it assumes that the downloaders would actually have bought the thing in question if it were only available at full price; and most of the time they wouldn't have. People generally download stuff that they still wouldn't have bought even if it were not available for download. Sometimes they even download something illegally as a trial and then buy it legally if they find they like it.
And a lot of the original illegal downloading of mp3's was driven simply by a desire to have a single track in mp3 format; the industry was ridiculously slow to realise the demand for downloads. The people who download illegally the most tend to be the same people who purchase the largest number of legal downloads; but you'll never hear the industry admit that.

WhyBe said:
Sony doesn't make money off of the hardware FYI (or very little). Profits come from software and licensing.
That's really a dumb justification for stealing anyways.
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they do make money off the hardware, maybe not with the ps3 yet but as time goes on it gets cheaper to build so they will & thats a good justification for it some people buy two xbox 360 1 for online & 1 to mod so they can have all the games they want

For some reason many IP owners find it a good idea to create tons of hassles for buying their stuff, and I, as a user, often have this funky choice of downloading something for free to have it available and running in minutes or paying, often even going to physical stores (horrors!), and then probably have some crappy DRM attached to what I just bought in hope that nothing breaks down to make it all useless.
Just a few examples: it's impossible to buy digital music where I live - neither iTunes nor Zune nor anyone else sell music here, so pirating is the only option; MS don't sell Win 7 as upgrades to Vista here, only full retail versions, so you have to pay $500 instead of $200, and then get no download option either; iGo, the satnav app I use, is sold on SD cards and have no download option for WM - hell I'm not using a separate card for just one app! And then the most glorious example - the iPhone, where they locked app installation procedure together with advanced settings, using the same mechanism. So you unlock settings and get access to free stuff in one move. That, together with no try before you buy option in appstore.
So, I don't know if piracy is good or bad for the industry, but I'm sure the industry's stupidities are one of the major causes for piracy. Only in digital you find that stuff you pay for is less convenient and causes more hassle than free stuff. It just can't work without at least some people getting pissed off and looking for workarounds.

so is microsoft setting up a itune store for mp3?
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
if we need a simple phone, we will get nokia!
its like returning to iphone 1, with no mms, no a2dp
I think WinMo 7 should have a professional version target for us!

Tabbe said:
so is microsoft setting up a itune store for mp3?
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Yeeeess! Where have u been? They have complete Zune functionality in WP7. There already exists the Zune mp3 site.
WP7 is the FIRST of the "iPhone killers" to compete with Apple on ALL levels and then some. No other smartphone has done so thus far.

WhyBe said:
WP7 is the FIRST of the "iPhone killers" to compete with Apple on ALL levels and then some. No other smartphone has done so thus far.
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To say that WP7 is going to compete with iPhone is like saying Lady Gaga is going to compete against Michael Jackson's music.
People who own iPhone, do so because it's the fashion, much like why they owned iPods. People owned them because it was a fashion statement, not because it's functional. How many people you know own an iPhone and use it as a smart phone? Lots of people I know **** with the thing for 3 months, and then forget it's a smart phone and just use it as a phone.
It's not like Phone7 is going to be a fashion statement like Apple's products are. That's why Zune could never catch a decent share of the mp3 player market.
iPhone will go the way of the Nike shoe. Many people will have them, and will spend lots of money for them. In the end, it's a fad, and will fade away.
Phone7 is just Microsoft's way of trying to capitalize on the software market craze. As iPhone owners buy lots of applications, Microsoft is hoping to benefit the same way with their own marketplace. So of course, DRM is very important.

Shasarak said:
Debatable.
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yep totally have you heard gabe newalls take on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pevh2Q0hg
he see's piracy for what it is and he's a developer and publisher, but also a geek and a gamer

spzero said:
yep totally have you heard gabe newalls take on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pevh2Q0hg
he see's piracy for what it is and he's a developer and publisher, but also a geek and a gamer
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WOW, he really understands the market, unreal, I have never heard any "expert" talk like that about piracy. Def worth watching (8+min long).
As for the topic on hand, this will almost be a deal breaker for me. SD cards are important for content I own to move it between computers or anything else. It has to be on a current device.

Just why do people think SD card support removal from WP7 has anything to do with piracy, BTW?
Think about it - what would you do with the card there? It doesn't have file system access, no file browser, and no way to use a file you copy to this card for anything. It's not any more difficult to put a pirated mp3 to Zune HD or iPod than a legal one (actually, it's much easier, but anyway).

Dukenukemx said:
It's not like Phone7 is going to be a fashion statement like Apple's products are. That's why Zune could never catch a decent share of the mp3 player market.
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I don't know about that. Actually, WP7 seems so far to be the first smartphone platform apart from the iPhone to deliver experience that could make a device that I can buy for my wife as a Christmas gift. In some ways, which I know are important to her, it will certainly excel (video codec support, Zune desktop software, all the facebook stuff built in etc.). It obviously looks different and will stand out on retail shelves. I think the design will look gorgeous on amoled screens (the videos and screenshots and even low-pixel-density PC screens surely steal some of its appeal). One could argue that the "original thing", the iPhone, may be better, but the problem is, she already has one, as do all of her friends. It's difficult to stand out with the iPhone when you go into a Starbucks or board a plane. So the iPhone does have limitations as a fashion item. I'm sure no single WP7 model will beat the iPhone, so I'm reluctant to use the silly media label, "iPhone killer", but it's relatively understandable how to beat Apple in terms of market share.

Dukenukemx said:
To say that WP7 is going to compete with iPhone is like saying Lady Gaga is going to compete against Michael Jackson's music.
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Isn't she?
People who own iPhone, do so because it's the fashion, much like why they owned iPods. People owned them because it was a fashion statement, not because it's functional. How many people you know own an iPhone and use it as a smart phone? Lots of people I know **** with the thing for 3 months, and then forget it's a smart phone and just use it as a phone.
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Not the many people I know with iPhones. They seem quite enthusiastic about all of their apps.
To say iPhone is a trend is to insinuate that the smartphone industry is eventually going to revert back to the old WM way of doing things. Surely you don't mean this do you?
It's not like Phone7 is going to be a fashion statement like Apple's products are. That's why Zune could never catch a decent share of the mp3 player market.
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Zune doesn't have iTunes tie-ins like iWhatever. I don't expect any mp3 site to beat iTunes anytime soon, so therefore Apple products will always have the advantage in that regard. I believe that currently iTunes is the largest music retailer.
Just because Apple is #1 in this segment doesn't mean #2 can't do well. Hell, for that matter, Apple isn't even the #1 smartphone maker and it isn't hurting them
As far as fashion statements goes, I work in a nightclub and have YET to see any type of phone used as a fashion statement.

How can we support WP7 to make sure it succeds? ( and actually gets a version 2 even)

Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?

Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!

From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.

you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?

I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).

go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.

What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding

One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.

FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.

jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.

Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.

this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).

It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.

WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.

votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!

lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
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I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...

orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.

blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.

Choosing between Android and Wp7

I am currently in this dilemma, so I just wanted to put my thoughts out there(not trying to start a flame war here) and also (hopefully) get some thoughts from current wp7 users.
My biggest deterrent from wp7 is device quality, all the manufacturers seem to have been very careful not to step on MS's toes for the start, though MWC may change that(hopefully the new devices would be different from the same system and we may see tegra 2 or the new MSM chip, which looks absolutely amazing I must add)
The things that attract me specifically to the OS is the new UI, as it is finally a shift from the more symbian type of UI.
The downside is that some of the parts of the OS are unfinished, no threaded messages, socket support is a no show. Simply put, as it is now, it is amazing BUT, it is also flawed.
Android now has a far more mature OS which is feature complete. But the UI is still very similar to the old main menu with a grid of icons. Yes, there are widgets but, it can get a bit cluttered and, unlike the current symbian, they can be in different styles.
Hardware on the otherhand is absolutely amazing, the nexus s would easily go up there as a device of choice!
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department.
Apps is once again a maturity argument, though I do want to support luma arcade ( South African devs) and the fact that I know c# means that I could make something myself is a plus side.
That bit though was just opinion.
In the end it is pretty much looking to be device quality that is keeping me away from wp7 though. If all goes to plan it will be a platform that can hang with Android in terms of usability, though it still needs a bit to get there.
Android on the other hand has basically only one device that would intrest me as I wouldn't want to be left out of the official loop.
I know that xda does cook roms for Android devices, but I like that to be a secondary option(once again opinion)
To explain my thoughts I think I need to add what I am using now as a phone.
Nokia 5800 Xpressmusic with C6 firmware as a base. Then I took a whole bunch of other mods and cooked them into my own personal firmware.
I don't have the experience( or at this moment need) to make my own mods.
I like tweaking it to get the best performace and usability while still looking as good as possible and am very willing to sacrifice a looks for usability.
(Once again I really just want this to be an outsiders view on choosing between the two)
EDIT: Looks like I was wrong in that threaded messaging does exist on wp7, just not in email.

Gee, only the fifth thread this week on the exact same subject. Despite there being a thread right above it aptly titled Android vs WP7.

Whatever you can afford and makes you happy my friend. Go for it. These are exciting times.

Just to correct one point you made, there are currently threaded messages in WP7 and they work great.
I've used both android and wp7 and I prefer wp7, but it's probably because I hate having to get custom roms etc. I spent literally tens of hours attempting to customise my android device to my liking but never managed it. In my opinion, the wp7 homescreen gives me all the info i need at a glance - better than I could ever make my android handset.
But it sounds like you like to tinker and customise, so I'm not sure if WP7 will be able to keep you interested for the long haul until custom roms become available
Use what you think will work best for you, in the end, i reckon both are great OSes

i believe he was referring to email threading.
if you have time to wait, see what gets announced at MWC. there is rumour of some pretty big stuff coming, but who knows if its just minor software/more hardware.

Android gives more options in many ways today.
I had the same dillema but have chosen different solution: I stay with WinMo for some time.
Because I can't stand Android UI. Really.Too much candy.
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.

You like to tinker with your phone then I think you better suit with Android.
I'm afraid if you buy WP7 now, you will be disappointed.

doministry said:
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.
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This about sums it up. Are there features missing in WP7? Absolutely. I won't get into it here, check out out one of the flame wars in the other threads. BUT...what WP7 does, it does exceptionally well. You need to decide if you can live with its shortcomings. If you can't, then get another platform. If you can, then definitely get WP7. It will blow you away. But that's a big "if", and be certain about it. Do your research and make an informed decision or end up like one of the disgruntled curmudgeons in this forum.
-R

Thank you for all the replies, I think waiting a month or two to see what happens won't kill me.
For living with shortcomings of an operating system, I use symbian on old hardware and actually enjoy it so, I can easily survive a missing feature or two in return for performance.
Info at a glance is a great thing, and when I tinkered on the emulator it seemed as if it had depth to it as well ( my iPod touch on the other hand has the depth of a puddle in a drought, : none)
These are exiting times indeed! Now I just read another article implying nokia might make wp7 phones. That would be very intresting indeed.

yea, though i think it will be quite some time before this happens but who knows. anyways, what i'd suggest is just head to your local store and see if you can play with one, check out the messaging, people, photos, xbox, zune, and office hubs and see what the phone is all about. but yes there are missing features. another 7 or 8 months isn't the best thing to wait for, but aye, we waited this long and i'm happy with what i got.

Well, no stores have stock in South Africa. It is a special order, which would mean that I would anyway import my own at a lower cost.
But you are right. Being able to use the device itself would be the best thing.

Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.

mmelo76 said:
Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.
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might just be easier to ban tomhierl from wp7 threads and you would clear up 90% of the abuse and flames in one hit.
As to the original question it really depends on what you want from the phone as they are no a direct competition for each other other than both being smart phones.
Android is amazing for openess features customization but lacks in style smoothness apps that take advantage of the power on most devices (still feel old but work ok) and its music ability is pretty dire.
WP7 plus is its style smoothness use of hubs (you have to use them to realize how great they are (and no the fact that other phones mix up you contacts and facebook is not the same thing)) its music features are far beyond anything on the market inc iphone in fact makes iphone look old in this area and its xbox live integration (there is already a cross platform mulit-player game in the market and thats just a sign of whats to come) what you do lack is certain features some high end users need like tethering and mass storage etc
So the question shouldnt be what one is best but what one is best for you, I say go try a demo of wp7 it really is something new and refreshing.

lumpaywk, I understand what you're saying.
However I believe people can mature and improve.
Although the user that you commented cause flames, other users who respond to provocation are as guilty as he.
If only one claim and ignore the others and tells moderation, it's easy, go there and issue a ban.
Now when a user calls and the others start a fight, what can I do? Ban for everyone? Of course not.
As I reported in other forums, I always try to clarify my views on the subject and then put the warning.
Thereafter, any user who does not heed the advice, either by starting a fight or to continue it, will be issued an infraction, not accepting and continuing in error, then a ban.
I always try to guide and give some chance, only if he do not understand this and I'll ban is persisting.

You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.

Tone_ said:
You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me. But I can only temper what is done on the XDA and I am notified.
can not run the risk of being influenced by research done on google. Though reliable, can highlight only one side of the story of the people, perhaps the worst.
I prefer to follow my systematic already established and that is getting results. Nor am I the only one moderator, and can be advised by other Comite or Seniors, so I must restrict myself to what I see here on XDA forum, without external reference!
Still, I appreciate your help and research, will certainly be very useful for all of us in moderation!

i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.

cenkaetaya said:
i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something I can actually help with!
For this, you would have to make sure(obviously) that the cd has all it's tags for the same album. If not, then just make an album called mix cd 1 or something and put all the songs in that.
OR
Make a playlist with those songs in and sync.

Michael_W_L said:
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was reading that MS will control updates, not relying on the service providers. I think that is a very good thing. My HTC Vogue never got a single update from Bell. However, HTC did have updates, I just had to go find them. If MS maintians control, updates should reach the users much faster.

cenkaetaya said:
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
though there is no direct search, under music, go across to songs and use the letter blocks for quick jumps to the song you want to play (as if you would in the people's hub).
I haven't done so myself, but based on what I see in the playlists section, you should be able to make playlists off Zune Desktop, and sync the playlist to your phone. this should help, but yea there is no direct "play folder", but if you have the tags setup as mentioned before, they appear in albums, or create a playlist. But i think they need to improve it a bit more so you can create a playlist on the phone too.

What are WP7 Best Features???

MS really need to sort out its advertising campaign i think. Im in the UK and its all very quiet over here, those `really` wouldnt want me to buy a wp7. i was in the US and noticed the presence of WP7 a bit more... but still the question is what is the best way to advertise WP7. what would make you think... i want one of those!!!! doh ive clicked the poll button but it wont give me any options to sort the poll help!!! im sure this happened to me last time.

They need to show what the phone does instead of a bunch of people just using it. The big advantage wp7 has its its unique and fluid interface and they need to show this of more.
I also think they should push the zune pass a lot more as for the law abiding music lovers this is the best music service there is. It also would help if the uk got the 10 perminant downloads a month that the usa get.
As for its presence i don't know if i watch different tv to the rest of you (maybe as my wife makes me watch crap) but i see the wp7 adds more then any other phone though the iphone is very close second.
They also need to check the stores as they are not pushing it bar orange who from what i have seen are the only ones clued up and pushing it (even the tv adverts are for the mozart on orange). When i went to the o2 store the display had 2 demo phones but both where vandalized and just left and the display itself was tucked away round a corner. I think they should also send there own reps out to shopping malls like htc are doing for the desire range and push there brand with there own sales people, displays and demo's. Give people a chance to see it and be shown how it works properly they will love it but one thing i get from non phoney people is that it looks different so they don't know if they would be able to use it then once they see how easy it is there hooked but they need to be shown first before they are sure.

i wanted to poll this how can i do it? when i try polling it did not give me options to type what i wanted.

no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision

Need to tweet this thread to the world

davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right mate. Office is nice. However this should at least match DocsToGo.
It is available for WM and Android.
Current Office is sweet but absolutely too limited.

Seriously, it's not one thing that really sets WP7, it's the INTEGRATION of ALL those things that sets it apart. When I show my focus off to people, I start with the integration with contacts to facebook (that I have their number/email) and show that I can write on their wall, send an email, txt and stuff and if they have an address, how I can quickly map it to Bing and then find directions. Also updating my facebook status and commenting. Then I show them the voice command for search to call people or find a place and directions. The dedicated camera button. Xbox games and it's graphics. I forget to show them Zune (but I don't have a zune pass) besides how if I go to a youtube video that it saves my recent history so I don't have to remember the site. I also show them pics uploading to facebook and show them how my pictures automatically upload to skydrive and tell them about the 25 GB free of online storage.
It's really how all those things come together which is why I love my WP7. It's SYNERGY! lol.

davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

lqaddict said:
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Puhleeezee....

Forget the rest of the features, it's going to be Xbox Live that sells it to the mainstream.. they've already started advertising this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNWL-WdzsM

wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

I went into O2 today and asked to see the HTC HD7 (was with a friend and left mine at home). and the guy said, yes, but we also have the iPhone and took us to it without asking me. Which greatly saddened me as the WP7 has better features like (bing search to find places near you faster, back button, smooth/glossy/simple interface, Xbox live, better music marketplace, better SDK ect). but if you don't know much, you would have go to the iPhone. Yet another idiot who doesn't know anything about phones. Selling phones >.<.

All of them partially! I mean none of them separately is SO amazing but TOGETHER...
You don't believe Facebook is the only key selling point.
You may laugh but office IS important too.
The mix is important. Fluid modern OS. And integrity with MS services.
Also the fact that WP7 devices are highend. Good browser and Email. Homescreen.

Its a tough choice I think which comes down to personal preferance at least it shows that wp7 has a lot of good things working for it. Looks like Xbox live is taking a good lead Microsoft would be wise to exploit their Xbox users to give wp7 a good advantage over other phones

wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, Lol!
WP7 actually has better Exchange support than Android, and the data on the devices are more secure than on Android devices.
But given who you quoted, I'm not surprised

Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.

action_efn_jackson said:
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it's US only.

Fine for most business users
lqaddict said:
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I own 2 small businesses and WP7 is fine (better that WM and Android for me). I'd wager most WP7 users are not in large corporate environments where email security is on the forefront - I can't imagine anyone hacking my phone for my email.
davidebanks was serious in recommending WP7 for business users. Probably the majority of them, as there are many, many industries with mobile needs that don't need such airtight email security (it can still be fairly secure, btw).
To say that he shouldn't be serious and to quote your Chief Security Officer's cute little one-liner dismissing every device on the platform as a toy is a disservice to those using this tread for what it is intended for. There is a thread comparing WP7 to Android, btw.

N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As in a Google App or Andriod OS?

Microsoft's "Slam-dunk"

News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.

They are also bringing Silverlight to the Xbox (finally), so yeah - awesomeness indeed

Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.

If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
considering windows 8 beta is coming out this year with a massive graphic overhaul and tablet mode, with ability to run appx and exe, I would probably think microsoft may be doing something right.
What really amazes me is that part of windows 8 can be scalable for mobile devices...something intel wants (due to the metro ui nature and easy finger friendly gui)
Again microsoft may be on to something. Heck I hate the ifad and I abhor the android 3.0 so microsoft's tablet offerings should be quite interesting

lekki said:
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA is not really the place to find hordes of people. We are a select few, and a small percentage of the user-base.

Now, we actually need to see a device and prices.

well this would be an interesting change:
m$ making finger ui elements for desktops instead of the other way around.
can't see hords of people getting excited about silverlight though.
the only app (ok not really) I use or can imagine using between both is google maps. contacts, calendar, gmail already sync easily enough. bookmarks in ffox, history, etc, is this really a new idea ?

Jim Coleman said:
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget though that Windows 8 will have a touch-optimized GUI, so should be able to handle any app designed purely for touch, such as WP7 apps.
But I'm with you on the fact that they'll have to recompile the code for the two target devices though.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this. As long as MS does this right - by providing the same APIs on every platform - "porting" an app from WP7 to Slate to Desktop to Xbox (i.e. all three screens) will be as easy as designing different UIs for each platform.
vetvito said:
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7. They have flocked to the Xbox. There are droves of them for Windows in general.
While apps does not a platform make, it sure as hell helps and since MS has the best developer tools in the industry ... well, developers will develop for their products.
Not sure what devices and prices you want to see, this thread is about cross platform app support, not slates or tablets or TVs or mobiles.

emigrating said:
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.

vangrieg said:
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...

emigrating said:
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea how well they are selling. I'm actually not saying they aren't. I don't know. However, all I've seen so far was that sales are decent given the circumstances - few devices, very limited number of markets, only half the carriers in the US etc. etc. In order for all devs to make a lot of money WP7 will have to sell much more phones than now. If it doesn't happen within a year or so they won't be too happy. I'm not suggesting that it will happen though.
emigrating said:
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what is going to happen. By the time MS releases Windows 8 (2012-2013) it will either have already been done (probably by apple) or no one will care anyway as they will have moved on to tablets as their main computing device. And I dont really see what the big draw is, I prefer fully featured programs on my pc rather than phone version with limited functionality due to the target device's shortcomings.

FiyaFleye said:
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !

ohgood said:
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MacBooks are sold primarily to college students who have zero idea of anything you just mentioned. When was the last massive virus outbreak? BSOD? Needed reboots? I'm not talking about $200 laptops here, I'm talking genuine Windows capable machines... Kids go after Apple products because they're cool & pretty, has zero to do with function or reputation... The iPhone has a reputation of horrid service, bad antenna placement, & overpriced plans... It still sells though... And Mac OSX or whatever they hell it's called now has a reputation for lack of software, incapabilities, and overall hindered use, yet I can tell you the majority of 18-22 year olds at my University want a new, shiny one...
Windows7 went far in taking function, and making it pretty. Windows Phone 7 did the same, took function, and made it smooth and pretty... They've lost some features in the short term, but they've accomplished their goals of making them consumer friendly and hip...
I'm not as pessimistic as a lot of these Microsoft/Windows/WP7 haters on this forum, I see a possitive outlook... Microsoft has never really done anything to make me think differently... I mean, people here have said "Apple will do it first" - how exactly? What 'new' feature has Apple EVER come out with? They take existing technology, make it look shiny, and market it. I give them all the credit in the world for that. But as far as beating Microsoft to something as innovated and incredible as cross device perfection? Nah, won't happen.

vangrieg said:
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally, someone who feels my frustration. Its like all departments at Microsoft try their best to work against each other. Sometimes they get it right though.