I am currently in this dilemma, so I just wanted to put my thoughts out there(not trying to start a flame war here) and also (hopefully) get some thoughts from current wp7 users.
My biggest deterrent from wp7 is device quality, all the manufacturers seem to have been very careful not to step on MS's toes for the start, though MWC may change that(hopefully the new devices would be different from the same system and we may see tegra 2 or the new MSM chip, which looks absolutely amazing I must add)
The things that attract me specifically to the OS is the new UI, as it is finally a shift from the more symbian type of UI.
The downside is that some of the parts of the OS are unfinished, no threaded messages, socket support is a no show. Simply put, as it is now, it is amazing BUT, it is also flawed.
Android now has a far more mature OS which is feature complete. But the UI is still very similar to the old main menu with a grid of icons. Yes, there are widgets but, it can get a bit cluttered and, unlike the current symbian, they can be in different styles.
Hardware on the otherhand is absolutely amazing, the nexus s would easily go up there as a device of choice!
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department.
Apps is once again a maturity argument, though I do want to support luma arcade ( South African devs) and the fact that I know c# means that I could make something myself is a plus side.
That bit though was just opinion.
In the end it is pretty much looking to be device quality that is keeping me away from wp7 though. If all goes to plan it will be a platform that can hang with Android in terms of usability, though it still needs a bit to get there.
Android on the other hand has basically only one device that would intrest me as I wouldn't want to be left out of the official loop.
I know that xda does cook roms for Android devices, but I like that to be a secondary option(once again opinion)
To explain my thoughts I think I need to add what I am using now as a phone.
Nokia 5800 Xpressmusic with C6 firmware as a base. Then I took a whole bunch of other mods and cooked them into my own personal firmware.
I don't have the experience( or at this moment need) to make my own mods.
I like tweaking it to get the best performace and usability while still looking as good as possible and am very willing to sacrifice a looks for usability.
(Once again I really just want this to be an outsiders view on choosing between the two)
EDIT: Looks like I was wrong in that threaded messaging does exist on wp7, just not in email.
Gee, only the fifth thread this week on the exact same subject. Despite there being a thread right above it aptly titled Android vs WP7.
Whatever you can afford and makes you happy my friend. Go for it. These are exciting times.
Just to correct one point you made, there are currently threaded messages in WP7 and they work great.
I've used both android and wp7 and I prefer wp7, but it's probably because I hate having to get custom roms etc. I spent literally tens of hours attempting to customise my android device to my liking but never managed it. In my opinion, the wp7 homescreen gives me all the info i need at a glance - better than I could ever make my android handset.
But it sounds like you like to tinker and customise, so I'm not sure if WP7 will be able to keep you interested for the long haul until custom roms become available
Use what you think will work best for you, in the end, i reckon both are great OSes
i believe he was referring to email threading.
if you have time to wait, see what gets announced at MWC. there is rumour of some pretty big stuff coming, but who knows if its just minor software/more hardware.
Android gives more options in many ways today.
I had the same dillema but have chosen different solution: I stay with WinMo for some time.
Because I can't stand Android UI. Really.Too much candy.
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.
You like to tinker with your phone then I think you better suit with Android.
I'm afraid if you buy WP7 now, you will be disappointed.
doministry said:
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This about sums it up. Are there features missing in WP7? Absolutely. I won't get into it here, check out out one of the flame wars in the other threads. BUT...what WP7 does, it does exceptionally well. You need to decide if you can live with its shortcomings. If you can't, then get another platform. If you can, then definitely get WP7. It will blow you away. But that's a big "if", and be certain about it. Do your research and make an informed decision or end up like one of the disgruntled curmudgeons in this forum.
-R
Thank you for all the replies, I think waiting a month or two to see what happens won't kill me.
For living with shortcomings of an operating system, I use symbian on old hardware and actually enjoy it so, I can easily survive a missing feature or two in return for performance.
Info at a glance is a great thing, and when I tinkered on the emulator it seemed as if it had depth to it as well ( my iPod touch on the other hand has the depth of a puddle in a drought, : none)
These are exiting times indeed! Now I just read another article implying nokia might make wp7 phones. That would be very intresting indeed.
yea, though i think it will be quite some time before this happens but who knows. anyways, what i'd suggest is just head to your local store and see if you can play with one, check out the messaging, people, photos, xbox, zune, and office hubs and see what the phone is all about. but yes there are missing features. another 7 or 8 months isn't the best thing to wait for, but aye, we waited this long and i'm happy with what i got.
Well, no stores have stock in South Africa. It is a special order, which would mean that I would anyway import my own at a lower cost.
But you are right. Being able to use the device itself would be the best thing.
Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.
mmelo76 said:
Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
might just be easier to ban tomhierl from wp7 threads and you would clear up 90% of the abuse and flames in one hit.
As to the original question it really depends on what you want from the phone as they are no a direct competition for each other other than both being smart phones.
Android is amazing for openess features customization but lacks in style smoothness apps that take advantage of the power on most devices (still feel old but work ok) and its music ability is pretty dire.
WP7 plus is its style smoothness use of hubs (you have to use them to realize how great they are (and no the fact that other phones mix up you contacts and facebook is not the same thing)) its music features are far beyond anything on the market inc iphone in fact makes iphone look old in this area and its xbox live integration (there is already a cross platform mulit-player game in the market and thats just a sign of whats to come) what you do lack is certain features some high end users need like tethering and mass storage etc
So the question shouldnt be what one is best but what one is best for you, I say go try a demo of wp7 it really is something new and refreshing.
lumpaywk, I understand what you're saying.
However I believe people can mature and improve.
Although the user that you commented cause flames, other users who respond to provocation are as guilty as he.
If only one claim and ignore the others and tells moderation, it's easy, go there and issue a ban.
Now when a user calls and the others start a fight, what can I do? Ban for everyone? Of course not.
As I reported in other forums, I always try to clarify my views on the subject and then put the warning.
Thereafter, any user who does not heed the advice, either by starting a fight or to continue it, will be issued an infraction, not accepting and continuing in error, then a ban.
I always try to guide and give some chance, only if he do not understand this and I'll ban is persisting.
You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.
Tone_ said:
You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me. But I can only temper what is done on the XDA and I am notified.
can not run the risk of being influenced by research done on google. Though reliable, can highlight only one side of the story of the people, perhaps the worst.
I prefer to follow my systematic already established and that is getting results. Nor am I the only one moderator, and can be advised by other Comite or Seniors, so I must restrict myself to what I see here on XDA forum, without external reference!
Still, I appreciate your help and research, will certainly be very useful for all of us in moderation!
i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
cenkaetaya said:
i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something I can actually help with!
For this, you would have to make sure(obviously) that the cd has all it's tags for the same album. If not, then just make an album called mix cd 1 or something and put all the songs in that.
OR
Make a playlist with those songs in and sync.
Michael_W_L said:
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was reading that MS will control updates, not relying on the service providers. I think that is a very good thing. My HTC Vogue never got a single update from Bell. However, HTC did have updates, I just had to go find them. If MS maintians control, updates should reach the users much faster.
cenkaetaya said:
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
though there is no direct search, under music, go across to songs and use the letter blocks for quick jumps to the song you want to play (as if you would in the people's hub).
I haven't done so myself, but based on what I see in the playlists section, you should be able to make playlists off Zune Desktop, and sync the playlist to your phone. this should help, but yea there is no direct "play folder", but if you have the tags setup as mentioned before, they appear in albums, or create a playlist. But i think they need to improve it a bit more so you can create a playlist on the phone too.
Related
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times. And maybe only 1 of those times isn't supported by current WP7. I think I was trying to copy a selected joke off the internet and send it in a text to someone. Is that really a deal breaker? REALLY? I can't copy and paste in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I can't multitask in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I don't have access to the file system so this phone sucks? lol This is getting out of hand. I'm not gonna lie, after seeing it in person I want to give a few thoughts:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
2) MS isn't just forgoing certain aspects, they are giving you something they perceive is BETTER(and they could be wrong). And I get to thinking about this for a minute. I'm running an Acer S2000, I don't have much problems with running multiple apps at the same time but If I go back to my old Touch HD, After running maybe 4-5 apps at the same time(hell just one 2-3 apps provided one of them is google maps), I start to experience extreme slowdown in the device so now I'm forced to use the task manager and close out apps. This is everyday stuff for us, no biggie. But to the everyday end-consumer its pretty tough and annoying concept to grasp. So why shouldn't the system do it for you? Why shouldn't the system recognize the fact that you just got an email with a phone number and that by clicking on the phone number you either want to add it as a contact or call the number? Why? Is a very important question. People ask why are some of us defending it to the death, I ask why are certain people so unwilling to accept change? Its not like WM6+ is dead...
3) its not an iphone clone. Hell, Android and WebOS has multitasking, I guess they are WM-clones... Its such a stupid concept. It looks nothing like the Iphone and it doesn't act anything like the Iphone. But you gotta give Apple some credit, they know what people want and they provide it, thats how you go from the bottom of the hill to the top in 4 quick years. The Iphone reinvented what people use a phone for. Its simple and intuitive (just press what you want) WM is going for that same lot of people. If everyone from XDA didn't buy WP7, MS wouldn't even break a sweat because it know it will gain far more everyday users than it will lose from powerusers. Powerusers will stay where they are, but look at the population of the world with Tweet, facebook, myspace, etc. You don't think some of them are salivating at the mouth to get to this powerhouse? I wish MS would have just flat out said, "you wanna hack phones and tinker with system files, this phone isn't for you, go suck it XDA" it would have been so much easier for people to take
So look at the positive
Developers (which i have to believe are the life blood of WM and THIS WEBSITE...unless you're a leech in which case no need to respond) No more need to spend you precious time building beautiful apps and not get paid for it(if it were the case A_C would be one rich dude by now). I like the idea of the marketplace as the only place to get apps. I mean when people think about how many people take innovation for granted on this site. Show up, find something new, download someones work...not leave a message of thanks, not donate etc....just poof gone. Thats complete and utter crap. Devs should get paid for their work, free download with a set trial period is an amazing idea and will definitely go a long way to seeing 1) quality developers getting most of the service 2) quality apps drive the marketplace to further innovation. This is a all around plus for the end user and developers.
Built in memory. I think is a plus. Now people can argue the contrary but this is more of a personal thing for me. Plus when you think of the end user, it only works out for the better. Give me 32GB and I'm fine. Hell I haven't come close to maxing out the same 4 gig I've had for the past 3-4 years.
Everything is better than Windows media player. I must say, I use my phone for music a lot (Jaybird bluetooth FTW) and I must say the Zune experience is amazing (I also have a Zune) and its just beautiful. Gone are the days when I copy songs onto my phone and I end up with Unknown song 1-18 by unknown artist. Zune desktop is head and shoulders above WM and Itunes. Hell you can search more music by and artist you have on your phone, listen to songs and download them str8 to the phone with the Zune Pass. I get 10 free songs a month to keep, and can listen to anything I want anytime for $15 a month. Thats an awesome deal considering Itunes is 99 cents per song and you don't have the ability to listen to anything you want anytime you want.
Info on the go, I like the hubs...I love the hubs. I wish i used social networking sites..lol. Honestly the amount of detail that goes into the total system integration of social networking is sheer madness. Your photos update with photos that people post on their facebook?!?!?! WTF? Thats insane. Its quite ridiculous how far they went, but if you care about that, and a lot of people do, then this is the ultimate device. You don't need to launch twinkini or whatever twitter app to see whats going on, you only need to look through your contacts. Thats awesome
MS Office, I never used anything but XLS files personally but I'm looking at the way its integrated (even though they didn't get too in depth) and it looks great. It looks clean (METRO UI) and it looks easy to use. I can't wait to get some pinch to zoom action going. Powerpoint presentations should be a breeze as well.
XBOX HUB, sheer awesomeness. I don't have an Xbox(PS3 FTW) but Linking it all together they way they have is nothing short of innovative and awesome. Give me an Xperia X3 with a PS3 Integration and I'll love you forever. Also a big shout out goes to the game development. Graphics are seriously on par with PSP quality. It quite amazing.
I once said:
"its(WP7) not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation..."
I still stand by that after MIX10. I won't bash WP7 and I will defend it because I believe it is that innovative, I believe it is a game changer. For all the complaining there hasn't been a congruent amount of love spread so I will be that guy even if the flame gets ridiculous. So yeah, MIX10 was amazing, got robbed, won some money, got married and divorced (I kid) it was a great experience, something that watching it on video cannot give justice to.
That said I will give a few of my small personal beefs.
1) The phone handles multitasking in a way that closes programs when the system needs the resources, why don't we have control over this? Having the ability to manually close programs is important...should be an option. Assuming the system doesn't have some genius way of making me happy with its multitasking...this could be a problem. Also, with the spec given, how the hell is this system running out of resources?
2) SD cards aren't supported. Eh, with enough built in memory this isn't a problem to most but, I know some that have maxed out their Iphones/Ipod touch. It would be nice to have an expandable option
3) Compatiblity issues, How am I supposed to share files with my phone to my PC if I cannot access activesync? Do I email the file to myself then open it on my PC? There better be some answer for this.
4) Also I use my current WM phone as a thumbdrive alot. I just store stuff on it to keep with me and put on my work PC and vice versa. Without activesync, memory cards, or access to system files how is this accomplished?
~style1~
ALRIGHT those are my thoughts, I tried to play both sides of the fence even though I'm completely biased..lol. I do bring up some interesting issues with WP7...what are your thoughts? Also sorry for another long thread
style1 said:
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's nice, but what's the rationale for not including it for anyone? MS says, "Our research indicates that people don't use copy and paste." That scares me because it is very Apple-esque. I hate the philosophy of "we know what works best for you, so why don't you shut the eff up and not ask any questions, OK? Just do what you're told and play in our nice little walled in garden and everything will be fine." That Apple mentality has spread to MS it seems. I don't often look at or take pictures on my phone, either, but does that mean those capabilities should be removed? No, they should be there in the event that I do want to use them. What's the harm in leaving in copy and paste?
And if I can get good battery life on my TP2 with multitasking, why can't they coax it out of the shiny new WP7? How does Palm do it?
I store all sorts of crap on my phone, so they better have 32GB versions available and let me use it as USB storage.
Also, I heard you won't be able to set different programs as the default (say, Opera instead of IE). Which is another ridiculous restriction and just shows that MS has gone overboard with control, just like Apple. And that's just the reason I don't have an iPod or iPhone.
So if things don't change, I'm off to Android.
Engadget, by the way, has been actually quite balanced with WP7 versus their coverage of WM6. And prior to the all bad stuff we learned at MIX10, they were hyping it quite a bit themselves.
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
I'm feeling kinda torn with regards to WP7s. On the one hand I love the UI and the integration, on the other I hate the lock down. Not just the software lock down but also the hardware lock down. It's what I hated about the Iphone, and it's what I hate about WP7s. Granted, there's gonna be more variety with WP7s, but it's constrained variety.
When I first saw WP7s I was certain my next phone would be with that OS. Now I'm not so sure...
Regards
havox22 said:
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They've completely re-done the UI. Allowing copy & paste would mean they would need to re-implement it from scratch. Besides that, as far as I know the WP7 menus are limited to max. 4 entries so they figured out it doesn't really fit in....
yeah I feel you guys about the copy and paste even though I hardly use it, but my honest opinion about it is that microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all. The issues mentioned at the bottom of my original post pose far bigger issues than having copy and paste. But as I mentioned in my OP, I don't think MS intentionally got rid of the stuff we like, I think they tried to integrate something that is better, something for the end user instead of the the heavy user. If thats their ideal customer(everyday users), then yes, Automatic multitasking trumps the task manager style multitasking: active copy paste is useless. I guess...lol
BEGIN RANT/
On a different note, on the innovation side Android reminds me alot of the old WM. Palm/WebOS is a different beast all together. Nokia/Symbian owns majority market share even though its hardly innovative, Iphone has been largely innovative (face it...it is) and is the number 2 OS followed by WM. Image that as a marketer. There are like a million different types of WM phones made by dozens of different manufacturers and somehow they lose market share in 4-5 years to 1 phone made by 1 developer. How is that possible? There is something to be said for massive over-saturation and its effectiveness (NOKIA...I'm looking at you) but as far making hand over fist money, how can you not just look at Apple and say "genius?" 1 phone, locked down, hated by so many, number 2 marketshare in the world. I think if WM is going to get on top they have to attack Apple. Attacking Android does nothing...honestly I think pushing WM 6.5 beats android (Personal opinion) WP7 has to take those Iphone users away from apple. So they have to offer not just something similar, they have to offer something BETTER. So yeah, High level of social integration is BETTER, Simplistic design and text based smooth UI is BETTER, Stronger Hardware BETTER, Xbox integration and heavy game centric focus is BETTER. The Iphone is the enemy here. In order to beat Apple it has to be BETTER at what it does. So, we wont see 8 HTC WP7 phones every year (since there is no point considering WP7's high standards)...thats a good thing. WP7 is putting out a clear and sweeping OS that has one message WE ARE BETTER. I think the average user will be sucked away from Iphone back into Windows because Windows is totally committed to bring a user experience that is uniform across all platforms. If I have a PC and an XBox...WP7 is a no brainer. 23 Million XBox users...thats a lot of people. RANT END/
Thats all my personal opinion though. Butler youre right about not being able to set certain programs as default. As MS is using BING to search, and IE for internet etc....I don't think you'll be able to switch it to opera on the fly. But you can always just select Opera from the programs list or just tag it to HUBs and just select it from there. Although I believe that with the fact that MS has been sued recently in EU for not offering people a choice for their browsing for their PC I'm confident in saying that Opera might still have the option to set at default (as it currently does). We will see though. Its kinda a stretch to relate PC to WP7 as is because its still in rough beta.
~style1~
style1 said:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This makes sense. People will often require a number of features from a phone and unless it ticks those boxes extra features are not important.
"Windows Phone 7" is missing a lot of basic features. If they are not important to you, good for you, but you seem to be in two minds about that. When there are a lot of decent phone OSes on the market you shouldn't have much need to compromise.
well yeah of course, but its not like any of these features are totally missing...they've just been reinvented or reinvisioned, so to speak. I look it it this way, why do I copy and paste? Because I want to take info from one program and transfer it or send it to another. MS has determined (again, I'm sure the put some R&D into it) that most people don't even use it so much so they created a NEW system that allows you to do basically the exact same thing, take info and transfer it, without all the fuss. Its still copying and pasting. I dunno. I believe innovation something to embrace, it moves the industry foward. Because all these guys compete for our business they drive each other bigger and better. But it seems that keeping up with the old outdated ideas is all that people care about. I mean, the Iphone doesnt NEED copy and paste. It functioned just as well without it. The big problem with it was they had NO alternative to make people say oh well thats just as good. So what do they do? They add vanilla copy and paste. Consumers drive innovation in that sense. My wife for the life of her can't understand this huge hype about multitasking. She believes her Iphone is just fine. She can listen to music, she gets her push notifications when she needs them...shes a happy camper. She doesn't get it. I try to explain to her how its important, but regardless she wont get it because it doesn't fit her lifestyle. How many people does something like that matter to, honestly? I get MS' approach....it makes sense. The average consumer would rather have things be simple, would rather have things done for them; than actively doing them for themselves. The exception to this is WebOS because its driven by the idea of multitasking. And how innovative is that. The homescreen is the taskmanager. Its a great way to make the idea of actively managing open apps seem like it is something that you are in control of, not like WM or android (where you just get massive lag) where it seems like the open programs are something thats controlling you.
Different strokes for different folks though. But hey remember how many of those basic required features that the original Iphone launched with? lol Looking back it was laughable how fail that phone was, but it sold out the stores like a champ. Its not about the basic features. Its about the innovation behind it. Apple invented the wheel all over again. MS has to invent the V8.
~style1~
Personally, I was looking forward to WP7.
But:
1) No Multi-Tasking (I don't count push notifications as multi-tasking)
2) No Copy/Paste
3) No removable Storage
4) No 'Use as USB device'
Are pretty big dealbreakers for me. These were all things in favor over the iPhone (except c&p since last year), and now they're going to handicap us :|
Thanks for being a voice of reason style
sevenprx,
windows does have their own take on C&P as well as multitasking. It in fact does do both, just not in the way thats been the industry standard so people are considering it NOT there even though it clearly is. I believe you should check out engadget where they do have a few good articles and clips.
1) Copy and Paste Here (even with the misleading headline its informative)
2) multitasking HERE
3) Removable storage is a big issue. I think most will be appeased by massive 32 gig phones but alot (myself included) of people wont. But in terms of solving problems it saves a few headaches for MS in the development process. I do believe MS told us during the keynote (or somewhere during that time, I cannot remember) that developers can have internal SD for more memory, but it is kinda a bummer for me to not have removable Cards. Its basically to keep this phone as unhackable as possible.
4) No use as a USB device...this too is a killer, as I mentioned earlier I do use my phone to store info on. Its a daily thing. Since I can't access my phone through activesync it makes all this info useless. Its like they only want use USB to move photos and music...THATS IT. I'm not sure if thats the best strategy but, for those to whom this is dealbreaker for, they are probably happy as sheep with 6.5 so it won't be too much of a deal for MS. Which of course still makes the HD2 an extremely viable phone at one helluva price.
~style~
Thanks mazzarin
I'm still looking forward to WP7. It has a lot of very intriguing features and I like the look of the UI.
As far as multi-tasking goes it will work with my needs. I can alway have a webpage up in the background, I can alway have music playing in the background. Any core feature of the UI like calls, SMS, email can all run the the background and one 3rd party app. Honestly, I hardly ever use multiple 3rd party apps to begin with.
I don't use copy and paste very much. I think I can say I've used it about 5 times since I've had my device and honestly it was so much of a pain to use that a couple of those time I gave up and just wrote it down and re-typed it.
I would really live to have removable storage. I just hope phones with 32GB flash come out. I can fill 8GB pretty easily.
I use my phone as a USB device a lot just to transfer big files. This is honestly one of the biggest things I don't like.
Look, I'm all for defending Microsoft but the one thing you glossed over is the one real dealbreaker.
No copy and paste? How basic yet essential is that? If you've only used it 5 times in 5 years I don't know what you've been doing with your phone, but other people bought a phone with Outlook and Office and web browsers for a reason. Data detection is not going to let me email a paragraph or search for a sentence.
"Multitasking": No problem, pause the apps for when I come back to them. I don't have to close them myself, cool.
No USB file access: Pain in the neck, sucks for us, but if we store only files that apps on the phone handle (music, documents, etc) then at least we can still use the device as intended. It just won't be a flash drive
No removable card: Very stupid since I do actually pull out the card.. but the truth is that most people don't. MS and app developers have a much easier time knowing that the storage is always a part of the device, and they also don't have to be so scared of piracy. So it really really sucks that we can't expand storage, but at least the phone will still work.
So when you combine those last two, our main difficulty is moving files on and off the phone.. but it will sync files to our own accounts fine at least. even wirelessly. So the phone is still usable. But copy/paste? The phone is CRIPPLED without it
again, what as I said before, I actually did sit in on an conversation and demo where there same things you're saying about copy and paste were presented to the demo operators. Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS.
Honestly just like multitasking, its a non intrusive way of doing what people do anyway. And yes I have only used multitasking maybe 5 times. I honestly just don't need the feature. I mean, hell as there are millions of Iphone users what they were doing with their phones for the longest. It just isn't important to me. I use outlook, use push, I use Office and the web browsers but I never had to copy anything. I handle P&L's, I keep many office documents and I prepare powerpoint presentations as well having my phone linked to corporate accounts that I use to send this information out on a system wide level. I haven't seen the use for copy and paste because honestly I send complete documents so I only need fowarding.... Occasionally I may just copy an email account and paste it into my recipients list but WP7 is capable of doing this...I witnessed it myself.
~style1~
Very rationale styles1. I like your thinking with some valid points. I still believe that wm has been around this long because of xda and every developer and user that uses their brain to tweak and modify to each individuals liking, including ms/htc and xda developers. Taking this away, takes the dignity away from ms and xda users. i have been a long time wm user since i was a kid back in the early 80s. the ONLY reason i don't have an iphone and not jumped ship like my dad, sister, brother in law, friends is because of the features that wm has had over the years. the ability to cut & paste, the ability to use storage cards, the ability to control the phone. I use all these features. Not every day, but I use them. And it's more than 5 times in 5 years. I guarantee everybody on here, and probably yourself, would be lyng if you said just 5 times. Try 10 or 20 times, but how is your memory so good and that you can count with your fingers to just 5. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue. These simple/essential things are actually quite vital to the average xda user like myself. I've read thousands of messages on here from chainfire, to abu, to duty, to dave shaw, mskipp and to every other developer on here. They are my true heroes, they have made the wm phone viable, with dignity. For an analogy, you can drive a cadilac or a mercedes. But your gonna tweak up a hyndai or honda and tell me it's the same and gonna be better than a mercedes. If honda were gonna tweak up there car and charge 75,000 and say they are just as good, then I'm just gonna buy one. hmmm. we (ms) is competeing against iphones? are we really competing against them, or are we competing against ourselves (wm 7 vs wm 6.5/6.0/5.0...) To take away all these essentials, would be taking away life. Variety and Substance is the essential part of life. I hate e-readers, yet I don't like reading books either. However, I'd rather read a book where I can locate a page, then read off an e-reader. I think XDA developers and the common user like myself have spoken loud and clearly, there are really no winners in this case. This is not your win-win scenario......What do I know, I'm just a geeky medical doctor writing with no substance.
well I didn't originally say only five times...I said maybe 5 times. I'm not a fun user I'm mostly a heavy poweruser. But as most of the people on here I am extremely mod heavy. So yeah, I get it. But developers here will still be able to use this site for 6.5 as well as 7. People have to understand a couple things first and foremost. First, if developers don't support WP7, WP7 won't move foward. They can also support 6.5 as well as WP7 and not have to PICK SIDES. This isn't about "oh they got rid of features I need, FAIL" this is about a platform as a whole. 6.5 isn't going anywhere soon. Keep it alive but embrace the future as well. I don't like the thinking that goes into a lot of the bashing that happens. I mean if we're going to use cars for examples let me throw one out there.
I used to drive a Ford Fusion, when it rained I would turn on my wind shield wipers. Last year I upgraded to a E class Mercedes...now when it rains my windshield wipers turn themselves on. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about something so trivial as to turn the wipers on and then get them at a pace that isn't excessive or less than what current rain speed is. Its a system that reacts to whats happening around it and assumes the likely reaction.
I think thats similar to the changes WP7 is making to amend some of the issues with WM6+. But of course thats just my opinion.
I personally, however, hope that developers here don't just shun WP7 because its different and embrace it as an opportunity to develop for a new platform, increase their product visibility and most important to make revenue off of their hard work. Donations are fine but being able to actually get paid for your work makes for a new scenarios that aren't currently available to developer here at XDA and as we all know money drives innovation.
~style1~
style1 said:
Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS
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No sir, no... I don't know what your definition of 'almost' is but I know that by definition "smartlinking" only works on structured data.. phone numbers, addresses, etc. If I wanted to paste another quote from your comment right here --> there's absolutely no way for smartlinking to do that.
Copy/Paste. Why does anyone even need to be arguing and making excuses for this? It's just basic and shouldn't have had to be left out or delayed. They have so many ways to implement it
if you read my post 6 i actually talk about what I saw in a live demo...actually I'll just quote it for ease of reading(I guess i will use copy and paste just for the hell of it....lol):
"microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all."
So yeah, I agree with you 100%...its not true copy and paste. It is however an alternative. And I know no matter what microsoft does, if they miss one step it comes out to be a deal breaker. But come-on, This is pushing it. I honestly sat there and watched almost (again I say almost) every copy and paste feature put to test, and the only thing it cannot do (copy from browser to insert elsewhere) ends up being like the worlds biggest issue. I have brought up some other FAAAAAAAR bigger issues, as well as provided some good reasoning and insight as to a lot of other system functions and we keep coming back to this extremely small issue. I honestly didn't know that so many people copy and paste from the browser. According to MS, people just don't do that, but apparently all the people who "do do that" are all on XDA...lol. But I guess that makes you right, though, people should be able to copy from the browser and paste elsewhere. Unfortunately WP7 won't support that at launch. What else can I say?
~style1~
No they don't provide an alternative, they provide alternatives to some use cases. No, copy from browser to insert elsewhere isn't the only use case, there have been numerous examples I won't copy here, you're just not paying attention to what people say.
No there aren't bigger issues as many of those can be resolved by hacking. C&P can't.
I personally find copy and paste indispensable and use it daily. One of the places I use it is to copy the website address and paste it into my mail and share it with my friends. Sometimes, I also copy of some useful information from the website to save it into my note application for future references. Then there are some forums that I visit daily where the only way to reply with quote is to highlight and copy the portion of the post first. Bottom line is copy and paste is completely necessary. MS has not done the research thoroughly or given it enough thoughts IMO.
As to multitasking, I almost always have more than one third party programs running. One of the scenarios is to listen to my favourite internet radio (which are oversea stations sometimes) while reading my 1000+ entries in my RSS google reader newsreader application.
Let's hope MS read these posts and come to their senses.
I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
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You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
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Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states
I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!
awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
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Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
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Click to collapse
It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out
That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.
Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.
Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!
Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune
francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]
This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.
I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.
I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.
nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code
To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!
I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.
What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.
The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy
I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.
AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.
From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.
dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.
bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.
Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.
smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.
Hi,
I am tired of my current WP7, its almost 4 months now and their has been no major development in the APP market scene.. everyone just release initial app and than forget about it with no updates and no improvements.. the Gaming market scene of Xbox is pretty much dead too with no new fun game, I had pretty bad experience with Sonic which is practically unplayable and other boring games which have started coming out recently.. it seems Xbox is releasing games just for the heck of it.. ex: geodefence and tentacles.. boring not worth paying which are like free in android market..
I am really getting inclined to give up my WP7 and switch to Android now and buy Galaxy S2.. its has some plus points and some minus points:
Plus:
I can expand my memory.
Looks better.
Its Smoled 'Plus'.
It might have better battery? I am not sure about this.
Established Android market.
Minus:
Its too big for my pocket.
No ZUNE Pass like service.
I have to give up my Achievements Score and I dont know if they have anything similar to this.
I have never used Android and have never seen one ever before.. its completely new to me and I dont even know where is the settings option, I dont know if I will like it after using WM6.5 and now WP7 for last 7 years. I have seen Iphone before and used it for like a week, but never spend even 20 secs with an Android phone.
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time.. If this MANGO dosent work and the APP and GAMES Marketplace dosent become more vibrant than it is right now.. than I am thinking this WP7 could just become a device for people could not afford phones like Iphone and GALAXY S2, like a second option, a second choice market, which I am scared of.. I want to own the best and not the second choice.. and right now it seems GALAXY S2 with its ANDROID thing is the best phone in market.
Hmm. Not sure if I quite get where you're coming from with the apps and games thing. Over the last month, a ton of apps, big names and small, have come to the platform. A ton more coming and updated post-Mango. I mean, the market will most likely hit 30k apps soon. I don't have, nor do I use, 30k apps on my phone, not to mention the 100k+ or 400k+ of android and iphone, respectively.
Also, I'm pretty sure that every installed app, or almost every installed app, on my phone has seen an update... several at that. So, I missed you on the "no updates and no improvements" part. Are there specific apps that YOU are missing, or need that you can't find in the windows marketplace?
Games-wise, well that's a matter of preference. Games you find boring, others may find greatly exciting. For example, one recent game which has come to the platform that I like is Arcane Tower Defense. It's a fantasy version of the classic tower defense genre with some twists.
I also like little games like Vanessa Saint-Pierre Delacroix and her Nightmare. But, after Mango there will be many games including multiplayer fighting games, RPGs, you name it, real time and turn-based.
As to the GS2. I haven't used it personally. I do know you can't get xbox live benefits like achievments, however. I'm sure somebody else here is more informed on the phone than I. I hear it's a killer phone, though. And, there may also be a WP7 version of the phone as well.
But, dig around a bit and check out the apps that have hit the marketplace in the last month or so as well as the games. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Then again...
Purple11 said:
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are on a yearly cycle for major updates, like pretty much everyone else.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to do business with this phone, its been so long and yet their is no decent Calendar App like Pocket Informant. The built in calendar app is very basic, I want to create recurring appointment on every first Tuesday of a month which was possible on PI8 but not here.
I miss Apps like SPB Diary which let me scroll my entire contacts and entire days appointments right from the front screen, and SPB Pocket Plus which basically was what Android is right now, a choice of multiple home screens with one app, thats what SPB Pocket Plus was.
I want Resco Audio Recorder which auto recorded all my incoming and outgoing calls, not because I want to spy but because if someone tells me large reference number on phone I dont have to tap and write at that moment, I could just say go ahead i am writing it down, and later I would just play back that call and note down what was that number.
I want the missing file explorer which is their present in android right now.
Metratrader 4 app for real time live trading execution in currency and stocks right from your phone, nothing like that exists in WP7, I know we have it for Iphone I dont know about android..
We say we have so many number of apps and things like that, but look at the top 10 PAID apps in each of the categories..
Business:
6 are language learning, 3 are business cards, 2 are time tracker and one to tie knots...
Tools and Productivity:
2 flashlights, 1 night clock, 1 air horn, 1, dog whistle, 1 that saves pic in pdf format and calls itself 'scanner' (very poor scanning my direct camera photo is better than their PDF it include handy scan app too), 2 remote desktop (10 USD each)..
Personal Finance:
7 budget software (all exactly same, just store your spending, nothing else, useless, nothing like SPB Finance), remaninf 4 are market watch apps which all just does the same thing which is stream rates of top 10 cos from yahoo or google.. , no decent wallet app like CODEwallet Pro where we could create nice cards from desktop and sync it to wallet on phone, no actual trading app.. nothing..
Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.
PG2G said:
Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. Agreed.
In this kind of needs and preferences better try Android. WP7 is not really meant for this type of usage. This is what I have found for myself and while WP7 started to be frustrating after few months, Android solved everything for me in every respect.
I also want to see Mango and keep my Optimus 7 however some things are still not in the pipeline, like file explorers, USB docs/email sync and some apps like Opera Mini... And I'm afraid there won't by alternatives for core apps of WP7 either.
I understand your points well. I would also suggest that
Android is the right choise.
Just another way to look at things i would like to mention is, maybe most of the things you miss is just ways you USED to work with your phone? What ever WP is, its a new way to interact with your phone. For a old WM user like me, it was very wierd in the start, and i felt naked. I got used to it thou and currently having a replacment Android phone, while my current device is in for service. And now i miss my WP. It's strange how you miss the cow's afterwards.
Im staying with WP.
Just some thoughts from another side.
um..
I was thinking the same thing about switching to android, but I wont abandon wp all together. I'll give it a good year to mature
We have omnia7 and galaxy s. Of course the galaxy s fits better to my hardcore needs because it has al lot more options and you have a lot of custom roms and so on. BUT sometimes I'm really jealous about Omnia 7 perfect materials. And android is never as perfect designed as wp7. Android and its tons of different launchers is looking like an evolution of symbian and iOS. WP7 is something fresh and easy. Its what a phone is ment to be: a very easy and fast (internet) communication device. Not an overfilled little laptop.
So it's your choice: easy to use and well designed Omnia7 or a powerful plastic (gaming-)device with childish looking interface.
By the way: mango is awesome!
The galaxy s II is one of the finest android phones available. If you're looking for a feature set more similar to the old windows mobile ( and it sounds like you are), then Android is truly your best option.
Microsoft doesn't want a "complicated" phone platform anymore. They want consumer-facing, easy to use, social media and entertainment oriented with the ability to handle corporate e-mail, calendar and document editing if you need it in a pinch.
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
I owned a Galaxy s II before selling it to a friend who needed a new phone, and I would purchase the device again in a heartbeat if I decided I wanted to use android.
Andrmgic said:
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.
PG2G said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah maybe in 2050. You must be kidding. For any profi usage these are the basics.
I will give this phone a try till December, if nothing comes up in the APP scene better than what it is at present than I will switch to Android perm for good.. I am not the one who keeps two phones or keep migrating from one to another OS frequently.. I just choose the best and stay with it for a long time..
i desperately need a better calendar app for appointments.. this whole wide calendar tile is just a wasteful eye candy which i have come to realize.. auto call recording which i guess with the absence of file explorer will never come to wp7.. i want to make my phone a USB on the Go like thing, a pen drive... 16 GB of total storage is too small..
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...
Purple11 said:
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.
PG2G said:
You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. Microsoft isn't gearing this phone toward the likes of the geeks and tech nerds that frequent this forum. The average user makes up the majority of users, thus the demographic Microsoft seeks to lure to WP7.
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
You may also find that some of these things may never come or may not come for quite some time. I, for one, hope to never see a file explorer on WP7.
The fact is, this isn't android and that's a good thing. Each has its own role to play and fits in where they fit in. If WP7 had been around back in 2008 as the alternative to ATT and the iphone, android would most likely be a niche device for the above geeks and tech nerds.
That being said, only Android will fully fill your present and perhaps future needs.
Good luck. Whichever direction ya go.
Wyn6 said:
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's one of the things that I was thinking about as I read what he wanted to do. Unfortunately, Mango only allows for read-only access to the Contacts and Appointments. The only way to create an app like that (that actually integrates with the existing calendar app) would be to make the changes in the cloud and let the phone sync like normal. I guess you could always have a 100% standalone calendar app though.
I also want to say that the inability to expand memory using SDHC card will restrict many companies to bring their larger good graphics game to WP7... I have 16GB but I know their are people with only 8GB memory and they cannot expand it..
Now checkout this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CwSedSzckE&feature=relmfu
It looks a very heavy game by memory wise , if we want games like this on WP7 than 8GB device is a very small handset to have several of this kind of game.. I dont think gameloft can bring such games to WP7 with current restrictions on expandable memory..
****ty textures.. probably fits into the 400-500mb range.
The iphone version weighs in at 511MB..
You should probably get the SGS II and be done with it. You're not likely to find a better android device this year, and android will serve your purposes better than WP7.
It'll play 1080p h264 video in a mkv container without re-encoding.. and supports HDMI out using a MHL adapter.
Even with Mango's new APIs, you're not going to get the same level of functionality that you're looking for.
1. WP7 apps are not written using native code, they use silverlight, XNA or a combination of the two
2. There will never be a file manager or a task manager
3. There is no bluetooth file transfer
4. No Expandable storage
5. Small number of applications (this will be less of an issue as time goes by.. the marketplace is growing fairly rapidly)
6. Limited hardware options
7. No true multitasking (applications don't run constantly in the background until they are exited.. they do on android)
8. No Usb mass storage
I have both devices.
Maybe i can help you a bit.
I do have both devices (+ I have some more). It was part of the benefits of my last job and also part ( almost a requirement) of my actual one.
- If you switch to Android from Wp7 you feel like going back to WinMO a bit. Tons of Rom's,tons of walpapers but milligrams if you need help.
- The greatest benefit of WP7 is the unified platform. Maybe you don't realize it atm, but for 99% of people I've spoken to, it's a deal breaker.
- Not, I repeat, not my solely opinion: everything onscreen with Omnia7 looks better than on SGS2. People always want to tinker with the Omnia7 when I put both phones on the table (sometimes I carry the IPhone 4 with me also).
- SGS2 is literally bloated with redundant crapware. If you guys have ever bought a Sony Vaio in 2008-2010, this is worse.
- SGS2 takes mindblowing photos and FullHD videos (that they don't look like shot through a fishbowl).
-there are some neat tricks bundled on SGS2 but nothing you can't dl from market for free.
-battery is on par.
-voice commands are better on WP7.
-SGS2 feels like under development. 16bit graphics + wake up lag...for amoled+ and dual core? WTF?
- WP7 is more on the legal side, harder to sideload stolen/cracked apps. On android, on the other hand, you get hundreds of forums just for that.
If you have more questions I'd be happy to answer.
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please not another thread like that. -_-
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you will regret it , if you still want these features :
1- Bluetooth file transfer
2- ability to make folder
3 - icon view
4- rooting device
5- backing up ROM
6- backing up apps
7- much much more free apps and games
8- if you google around , you find paid apps for free
9- widgets
and alot more , but these are the most important features that are missing in WP7
If you think I helped , please hit thanks
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
arturobandini said:
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said? Most sane WP7 users can acknowledge its not perfect but why is it this forum is filled mainly with threads criticizing WP7, mostly from people who dont use it? If they dont like it, why not post in forums of the OS they do like?
Thats the problem, this thread will be filled with posts by the usual haters spouting the same BS. By this time, 1 year later, shouldnt they have moved on to the platform that suits them? Yet any good point of WP7 is shouted down and discarded. You say people here arent ready to judge WP7 honestly, the haters are just as guilty of not being able to be honest and admit any positive in WP7.
---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------
arturobandini said:
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rest my case.
Why are people keep comparing a 5+ yr old OS to a 1 yr OS is beyond me. We all know WP still have some growing to do. The rate it's growing is alot faster than we all anticipated.
I didn't mean to start any trouble... I really am just curious. I read a lot on engaget of windows 7 phones being efficient. My main question is what I want to do. I guess I'll stick to android and get the prime, and in 2 years rethink my options.
nevermind................
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree with dkp1977...What an another troll-bait thread.
LOL,please close this thread man....there are dozens of similar thread out there.
lol..."troll bait"
Listen, I'm a former Windows Mobile user who can shed some light. When my HTC Tilt got long in the tooth, I spent some time on borrowed Android devices. My theory was that the new Windows Phone 7 would be too locked down, too much like the iPhone, and that I'd be moving to Android instead. I loved to tinker and try to get as much out of my Windows Mobile device as possible, so figured I'd want something more powerful.
I mostly tinkered on an HTC Aria, which probably isn't a great comparison being a budget Android device, but I was modestly impressed. It honestly felt somewhat like an upgraded Windows Mobile device. Flexible, lots of options, etc.
When I was finally ready to upgrade, my wife was pregnant and I had a second job. I found myself without time to flash ROMs to my Windows Mobile device, and so I'd be stuck on a ROM I was dissatisfied with for weeks before having time to sit down and flash another one. When things didn't work on my Windows Mobile device, I would get frustrated and give up. I had stopped surfing, tinkering, installing, customizing, flashing...in other words, I started to use my HTC Tilt as a phone only, and maybe for light text messaging.
As such, I decided on a WP7 instead of Android. Boy oh boy oh boy do I NOT regret that decision. I have never ONCE looked back, and pity the fella who is still on his HTC Aria that I had borrowed. I have a dozen different hotmail accounts (because they allow custom domains and I run some businesses) and an exchange account, and they work flawlessly. The integration of contacts, calendar, messaging, mail...it's beyond helpful. I don't have to start a Facebook app, a search app, a navigation app. I can just talk to my phone to perform a search of any kind, and the browsing experience is top-notch. Facebook is right there, "merging" duplicate contacts is a joy, and I've found just about every app I think I'd ever need (granted, I moved from Windows Mobile, so it's not like I'm missing an app I ever had on another device).
Bottom line for me: if I were still a tinkerer, I may have gone with Android and would recommend Android to tinkerers (although you can definitely tinker with a WP7, if you wanted to). However, if you find yourself too busy for tinkering or just want more out of life than staring at a 4" screen and making an OS look and work the way you want, get the Windows Phone. If you want a robust smartphone that just works well, performs so many tasks natively that you really don't care about your app count, doesn't even need customizing because it looks great and performs well, get a Windows Phone.
Not only have I not looked back, but I have converted fully 5 non-techie people to Windows Phone with a sixth (the Aria fella) well on the way!
PS: My mom, unfortunately, snagged an Android device (not sure the name, but it's T-Mobile 4"-ish Samsung device) because the salesperson told her that "Android has millions of apps and Windows Phone has hardly any, and apps are what matter." I could wring that little egghead's neck, because now I'm constantly getting calls from my Mom asking how to do things on her phone, and telling me she "hates this thing" and is "confused."
I just don't know why people who genuinely hate the OS continue to come to this section... I went from WinMo, to Android, used an iPhone for a while as well, and can tell you that WinPhone is the best there is, especially at its young age. These people who want to own a phone to have to flash it weekly, or daily, can keep their Androids.
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Thanks your guy's insight. and you can tell i'm not a troll due to the fact if you look at my other topics started, I'm switching to verizon soon.
On the side note, for you wp7 people, do you guys go here for all your needs? like when I had an iphone i went to blah blah site, android is xda.
And I do flash A LOT. I almost wnat to break the habit. I liked cydia back on the iphone, I want the OS to be perfect, but if the apps arent, I want to fix that (thats what jailbreakign did me for the iphone)
I guess the main problem with windows 7 phones for me right now are:
No LTE? why not. If I'm going to Verizon shouldn't I get a LTE phone?
Pros:
I feel that it will give me "my life back". I'm not addicted to flashing phones, but it definately sucks that I probably send 30 mintes - hour a day scanning these forums about stuff and specs baout the "newest" phone. I see that wp7 phones aren't realized every 3 months, causing you not to regret your purchase.
Another question I have for the people who follow WP7 phones is, when are they going to release a new one for Verizon? Or ATT. But I think we are going to switch to Verizon.
mdcykkk9 said:
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by making phone calls and browse the internet? Are you saying the browse cause it doesn't have 4g?
And phone calls: why is that?
All I can say is I moved from WinMo-Android-WP7-Android.
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
I am one of those who wanted to use MS latest platform but discovered it's really not for me. Because even if the concept is really good and different, it's very limiting.
I wait to make my final judgement once I upgrade to Mango.
I think WP7 is perfect entry level OS, for people who are not crazy about the most advanced features. For less "business" or "pro" users it's perfect. It's for youngsters and people who don't need much but like reliability and simplicity.
Otherwise stay with Android because it's ahead in every regard.
So ask yourself why do you want to switch and what you expect from your future device.
@doministry: Moved to Android, yet still in the windows phone forums? Interesting.
I love these threads, though. They all end up the same in the end.
What most of us simpletons here, who are unable to fathom the depths of the advanced, Skynet-like Android, like about Windows Phone is that it's something new, something fresh. It's not the same ol' same ol' we've been accustom to from iphone and Android. Not that either of those two are bad. Actually, the opposite.
But, there's not really anything new there per se. Microsoft decided to go against the "Tried and True" and do something different. We will see in the long run if this pays off. But, every now and again, something comes along and changes our perceptions on what should be, the status quo as it were.
You ask about coming here for all your info. Well, come here in addition to going elsewhere. The problem here is that most are nerds and geeks thus they dig into things that most others wouldn't. Not many people care if you can reroute power from your phone to the dilithium crystals, and bleed some of that power out through the main deflector array. See? Nerd.
But, here at xda, if your phone doesn't do that then it's a failure. Let me clarify that. It's a failure to the Android fans whose phones are the best thing since Bell called Watson from the next room. There are actually quite a few of us that appreciate what Windows Phone has to offer, how far it's come, and how far it can potentially go.
Stick around for awhile though and you will find those who are quite informative and constructive. But, you'll also find those who come into every thread like this to tell you how much they dislike/hate/loathe/want to vomit on windows phone. Strangely, like moths to a flame, however, they continue to be drawn here. Which leaves me confused and makes me cry inside.
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
morpheuszg said:
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Android thread I am visiting there are tons of people who don't like it and it's not a problem for anyone really.
The other way round is not worse.
The scheme is like this:
WP7 lovers: "if you want to endlessly hack your phone and accept these lags, use Android"
WP7 critics: "we still miss this and that...."
What is really hard to understand for some is that some people use both platforms on regular basis and can really COMPARE them head to head. And this is the question here, COMPARISON. Times has changed, users are not devoted to one thing in their life anymore and are not treating their choices like a new religion. WP7 is still starting and appeared in a world of huge COMPETITION. If you don't know, the competition and comparisons makes things better, not the closed circle of believers. And that's why MS opened these polls where you vote for the feature you'd love to see.
Some people here are more MS than the company itself.
Hi GManLynx,
In my opinion Wyn6 and Dom both have valid points to make, Dom has voiced the fact that although WP7 is very capable as a daily driver (and it is my preferred O/S) it does seem to be limited for those of us that need specialised apps/functionality to be satisfied with our chosen platform. In the same light Wyn6 has it spot on that these forums do tend to be very geek based and arguments about granular functionality do get out of hand and turn the thread away from its original point, this thread will go that way in the end i promise...............keep an eye on it, its really quite amusing.
Anyway here is my penneth worth:
I have originally come from 6.5 where the flashing was both a delight and at the same time a chore, i then found myself being drawn to Android for the exact same reasoning and that was that i liked to play with and customise my phone to my liking. The hardware however at the time did not do it for me though and i found (as most people now realise) that with Android the hardware is the key for a great phone experience. This is now possible with all of the great droid handsets and the the apps available make the customisation side an absolute pleasure, although decent application coding is still an issue from time to time along with the possibility that the performance of any custom ROM you choose is entirely dependant on the trial and error application addition basis that 6.5 required. In my opinion this will always be the case with an open source platform.
Now with WP7 you get less chance to customise (although it is entirely possible) but the O/S is rather solid due to the fact that it is closed and that the apps that are released have been vetted so as not to afftect the functionality of the phone too much. This is also a plus point when it comes to the hardware that is required as you dont need the leading edge of available hardware to run the buttery smooth O/S. Improvements from Mango have made this even better in my opinion and have opened the door to better development opportunities and eventually better apps than are available at the moment, however i do stress the word eventually. WP7 is still very young and MS have some great things in the pipe that should make the O/S differ greatly from others......but again this will take time.
I could easily recommend droid or WP7 for you and i think you would be pleased, at the end of the day you will as Dom said have to decide what level of functionality vs customisation that you would prefer and go with that one. (this is easily done as all phone carriers now offer the 30 day cool down period, so you can evaluate both properly)
Try everything you can think of to aide your decision but most importantly have fun deciding, i know i did
Kind regards,
Creamy