Develop Bugs

Attention, so called "devs"!

Until this will be moved, read this. I'm sure most of you will find yourself in that article:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...om-developers-i-think-we-need-to-have-a-talk/

Definitely +1 on this one, I'm getting sick of 20 Sense ROMs which have the most confusing names ever.

Hear hear.

I don't see any problem.
Each of the chefs offers features that others don't. Personally I've found a nice home with Alex V's hybrid of Sense 2.1 and 3.0. It's odexed for great speed and has built in rock solid data 2 ext. Works for me.
It's best not to be so bitter Terepin, or of course you could choose a more 'homogenised' OS - which at some point you were considering, I believe. Where are you on that?

Except that Alex IS a developer, not a wannabe dev.

AMEN to that... **** I haven't even tried 75% of the ROMs for the Desire.. I mean thanks a million for spending so much time developing it but...
a lot are based on "OMFGAWESOMESENSEROM1" or "BESTAOSPROMEVER".. and it makes you wonder what the difference between that one is and the ROM it's "based" on other than minor tweaks here and there... Fair enough if you make MASSIVE changes to it, you obviously need to start from somewhere, but taking a ROM giving it a spit shine and slapping on your own branding does not work lol
One ROM has this bug fixed and another present, and another the exact opposite, it'd be nice to see all the devs who are e.g. working on a Sense 3 ROM.. to work together and make one awesome Sense 3 ROM instead of 5.. Of course I'm not saying that doesn't already happen because everyone HELPS each other out.. but imagine what kind of product could be outputted if everyone worked as a team on one large scale project, and take the Cyanogenmod team as their role models.
*gets into bomb shelter*

Alex is a responsive, friendly and kind guy. He's often helped out noobs (with a great investment of time) and I've also seen him give a lot of tips to people who do technically know what they're doing. However, he himself gives thanks to Coolexe and others that have taught him good stuff.
What the AP article seems to be saying is that:
1) the forums might be confusing for a beginner due to the vast number of ROMs and their variety in quality, and
2)new users might not know exactly what they're doing when they flash their first ROM
To which I respond:
1) The chaos breeds gems, some developers start off with ROMs that are bug-plagued nightmares but then either improve or disappear off the list (people power!). If you're going to have the kind of policing of ROMs that AP want, who does it?
2) Everyone's confused when they flash their first ROM, I certainly wasn't sure EXACTLY what was happening to my phone. Being here is a learning experience for users and devs.
---------- Post added at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------
Once you know what the terms in the title mean then it's easy to distinguish. D2EXT, A2SD, Odexed/Deodexed etc... It's not too hard. Jeez, why do people want everything laid out on a plate for them?
To those who find the choice confusing maybe a simpler hobby would be more to your taste. Maybe knitting? Or trainspotting?

revthanki said:
It's best not to be so bitter Terepin, or of course you could choose a more 'homogenised' OS - which at some point you were considering, I believe. Where are you on that?
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The problem is that right now, we have an, at first sight, more "heterogenised" OS than it really, is, because 50% of the ROMs are MOD ROMs.
I think that even I!!! could post a "ROM" and call myself a dev as someones do. In fact, I have a very modified ROM, but it's something that every one without any informatics knowledge can do. I've just read some tutorials to make a ROM, based on CM7, with an alternate kernel, odexed, some apps deleted, some apps added, themed,
And call myself a dev makes me laugh to death. So I think all the "new devs" should be more self-effacing (word taken from google translator, hope it's ok ) and think that ROM development is NOT for everyone. You need to know a lot that is impossible to learn just by reading xda. Every advanced user can MOD a ROM and share it for the more newbies, but always leaving the name of the ROM and all the credits to the real developer.

the Slovak guy spams again, u keep facepalming everytime u see noobs post in dev section , but u're not much different, next time post ur spam in "Desire General"

The only real solution to this problem is to do the same thing as the SGS2 forum moderators did. Split the development forum into Original and Mod sections. Frankly this should happen automatically on every HTC device forum IMHO.
As for the devs, yes most of the big names have moved on to other devices.
If, however you want to see some real development action right now, you should definately check out the IRC ICS dev channel. That's were real development is going on atm.

Totally agree. I make these minor customizations and add my own themes to my device, but I would never consider posting one of these for general use, or claiming for a second I've done anything significant compared to the real devs who make cyanogen or various other great ROMs. Doing some research and slowly self teaching yourself basic development is a great thing to do. But unless you've created an original ROM, ideally as close to from scratch as possible and thoroughly tested it don't post it on these forums.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

rayiskon said:
the Slovak guy spams again, u keep facepalming everytime u see noobs post in dev section , but u're not much different, next time post ur spam in "Desire General"
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Nice try, dude. Except one small tiny thingy: That this thread is meant for wannabe developers. It isn't question, it isn't need for help, nor it isn't chit-chat about weather. And with my "spam" agrees most of users here, furthermore, I'm not author of that "spam".

revthanki said:
I don't see any problem.
Each of the chefs offers features that others don't. Personally I've found a nice home with Alex V's hybrid of Sense 2.1 and 3.0. It's odexed for great speed and has built in rock solid data 2 ext. Works for me.
It's best not to be so bitter Terepin, or of course you could choose a more 'homogenised' OS - which at some point you were considering, I believe. Where are you on that?
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Terepin said:
Except that Alex IS a developer, not a wannabe dev.
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revthanki said:
Alex is a responsive, friendly and kind guy. He's often helped out noobs (with a great investment of time) and I've also seen him give a lot of tips to people who do technically know what they're doing. However, he himself gives thanks to Coolexe and others that have taught him good stuff.
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he he thx
---------
to [email protected] the beginning i also patched other roms to have my personal rom...but i don´t put it online (only cool3d runny...and this was only to give people who want sense 3.5 a feel that odexed is faster )
anyway....i think: for start rom development its a good thing to start with custom roms and change the things for personal use...but dont put it online
if you have the skills (from learning with the custom roms from other devs) then make a own rom...and put it online....
i never learned out...we need people like snq, seo, Neophyte, baadnewz, robocik, snq-, ownhere, coutts, melethron, Leedroid, Sub501, coolexe, sibere, droidzone and all we others...to learn...
a good thing would be if people like seo (ported the sense 3 lockscreen and weather), or ownhere for understand more the sqlite patch and how to find values in hex codes for newer roms....or or... - can make a little how to (so poeple can learn this and make it self)
thats why i answer much questions...so i hope the people understand what they do..
i searched also for a good how to to unserstand making kernels...but not found a really nice one...
with kind regards..Alex

Terepin said:
Nice try, dude. Except one small tiny thingy: That this thread is meant for wannabe developers. It isn't question, it isn't need for help, nor it isn't chit-chat about weather. And with my "spam" agrees most of users here, furthermore, I'm not author of that "spam".
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Put on some glasses, i didn't write "Q&A", i said "Desire General" , and Desire General is meant for this type of crap, so writing it in dev. section is spam , yes.

Crap? This is how truth is calling these days?

Terepin said:
Crap? This is how truth is calling these days?
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i agree with what is said in the article, but that's not the point, this is not the place to post it, rules that u want to be applied on others u should accept to be applied on u too, so next time when u insult "noobs" for openning a thread in the wrong place remember this one too and retell the insults to urself also , coz then it will be fair.

You know that article ain't about Desire, right? It's about ROM developers in general. So, by logic, which section is more suitable?

Mostly agree with the article. I hate when someone posts a kang and calls it a ROM. Nice racket we made with a$$paktyn case as the most recent example hehe
What I don't agree with is that developers should continue development indefinitely for legacy devices. You should follow their upgrade pattern if you were happy with their work, not the other way around.
island3r said:
The only real solution to this problem is to do the same thing as the SGS2 forum moderators did. Split the development forum into Original and Mod sections.
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This is exactly what drove Neophyte from these forums, whose rom was a customized rom+theme+own kernel. As complete rom as it gets. So I disagree with separation, but insist on repression against kang.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Terepin said:
You know that article ain't about Desire, right? It's about ROM developers in general. So, by logic, which section is more suitable?
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how about here?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=565

Nope, I wanted to address this article directly to our "devs".

[Q] What happened to Team PKMN Rom Thread?

As what mentioned, what actually happened that made the thread locked and all the downloads are not working?

Its gone? God damn it...I just flashed that last night!
EDIT: did some Googling and the rom has been removed from other forums as well. Maybe they got into some copyright issues with the whole Pokemon theme?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium HD app

AN hour or 2 ago.. the tread heading showed something about the phone being dropped in water...
then the thread disappeared...
very random... why wouldn't you just post a message saying whats up..?
Maybe the op has decided to get a Samsung Galaxy S3..hope not..

Two devs for the Prime left recently under similar circumstances. I'd bet they violated the ToU of the site. A lot of the manufacturers (and Google) consider their proprietary s/w off limits and most devs know this and work around it. XDA by allowing the s/w to be distributed becomes somewhat responsible. I'm only guessing but it's probably something along those lines.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1632494

The title of the thread suggests that the lead dev is having problems with his device and maybe he cannot support the thread atm (questions, queries etc).
I hope it's only temporary cause it was my favourite rom.

In a german forum i read, that the rom was based on mikes ARHD without asking him. If this would be true, it was correct to close the thread, because j4n87 complained about the unsolicited use of his tweaks in other roms. Don´t know, if it´s really right, maybe we´ll never hear something about it

Sigh... Sadly, it is the rom that i love most since i moved to HOX... Lets hope that the dev will return with more surprises...

Thread's open again:
j4n87 said:
Pls dont worry, Rom will continue.
v2.0.0 will be back online soon. Pls dont ask why all this happend
regards, Jan.
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Community Engagement

Community Engagement on xda developers
Where has the spirit gone of developers, making something better for all.
We like to make our devices better then what "stock" brings us.
But some people seem to forget what we are doing here: Create & Share
Why do people think that the "Open Source" software we are modifying or hacking is theirs to claim or Copyright.
Why are we not sharing and making better what others create...
Has the spirit here really gone?
And do we just want FAME ! !
If I was to create an app and hack Android, HTC or Samsung software by re-writing and adding code to it.
If this took me hours to do, this is still "Open Source" and people can copy my code in to their work.
The devs here are all working in a "Grey" area, and it's really hard not to see your work else where.
Consider it as a compliment if it is that way.
It took Google, HTC & Samsung hours to create what they made, do we care, and not touch it...
I don't think so ! !
HTC encrypts the Sense software because they don't want people to modify it... Do we care?
I don't think so...
So why do people/devs here on xda think that they can claim it for themselves?
Why do other devs get banned, or threads get closed if something similar is published?
We all Kang from Google, HTC & Samsung, but if we use some code from our fellow devs on xda, are we doing something wrong?
I don't get this!
I would really like this to be an open discussion, and try to clear this up for all of us.
My intention is not to start a fight, so please reply in a civilized way.
This also not directed to anybody in person
I hope the XDA staff can put themselves in my/our position, and try to understand it from this point of view.
My thoughts 1 day later @ post 141
DutchDanny said:
After a full day on this thread, I got more response then what I expected.
Thank you all for your participation.
You took the time to read this and give your opinion.
You all made me grow in my opinion, and maybe even change it a bit
What did it bring me:
Sharing now is for me: Collectively Developing (tnx Hacre)
I have no problems in being wrong, and might not have picked the correct words in some parts.
HIS POST
Good explanation on how the staff thinks
Thanks to my friend Russ for his well spoken words
HIS POST - HIS POST
What is reasonable and what not.
Tnx Ben, my fellow team member got me thinking as well
HIS POST - HIS POST
What am I gonna do now
beside building a rom and a kernel....
Gonna dig even more in the smali code (tnx af974)
HIS POST - HIS POST
For me this discussion is finished... Tnx ALL I'm gonna move on...
If the staff thinks the same, lock it for reference.
Cheers
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The ETHOS of XDA-Developers
Back when I was a Senior Moderator, I was asked to put into words what the mythical Ethos of XDA-Developers was. This was then debated by the moderators, Administrators and owners, it was never formally adopted but it was accepted by most as the closest anyone had come to defining what XDA is (was).
Ethos: an English word based on a Greek word and denotes the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, a nation or an ideology.
XDA-Developers was founded on the simple principal that SHARING IS GOOD and when many people SHARE what they know, EVERYONE benefits. We exist upon this Ethos, we respect each other, we SHARE with each other, we do not judge one another and we HELP all who ask. We believe that while some may have more knowledge than another, none are more important.
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It pains me greatly to see how XDA has degraded over the years to become a playground of egos and pissing contests between little boys who think they own what they stole from someone else.
I have been a strong supporter of XDA for many, many years but, I find my desire to support XDA is waning as the climate of sharing and camaraderie shift toward a climate of ownership and entitlement.

agreed so many phones left behind due to ego and epeen ppl always bailing on phones just because its not popular it takes work to get publicity ...
Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk

it was the same issues on the galaxy s2. people kanging others and people getting annoyed and ending up releasing stuff with the exclusivity and banning others from using it.
android is an open source at the end of the day. if someone wants to kang someone as long as credits are given and links to the originator's thread what is wrong with that? at the end of the day it should be a compliment to the originator that someone wants to kang your work and share it with the masses.
now i can understand if someone passes something over as their own and did not give credits. that is wrong and the culprits should be banned. but as stated above if proper credits are given then i do not see the harm in things.
but again on the flip side though if i was to spend hours and hours on something then the person who asks me for permission they should respect that i do not want to share...it kinda goes both ways really so it is hard to judge...but there are devs and themers included who act like real divas and most of the time now they do things for fame as Danny mentioned.
at the end of the day we are xda and we are here as a community and here to make our phones better and that is why the devs on this awesome site come in...devs should be sharing ideas together..not competing against each other

Franzferdinan51 said:
agreed so many phones left behind due to ego and epeen ppl always bailing on phones just because its not popular it takes work to get publicity ...
Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk
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Not sure we are talking about the same thing here my friend, its a much more important subject, sharing, the main reason XDA exists (or so I thought)
btw, thanked u when i was trying to quote ya, oh well, Ill share some love
There is really no better way to say it as both Danny and Russ summarized it very well. We are all here for one reason and one reason only, to SHARE. Isnt this what the "community" is about? I just hope the admins take a moment and reevaluate some of the people with powers around.
Ah before I forget, if you are gonna patent your "ideas" I really think its time for you to get a hold of apple, you already qualified with this mentality and in MY opinion, you do NOT belong here.
OK done venting... Thank u for listening.

DaDoctor said:
Not sure we are talking about the same thing here my friend, its a much more important subject, sharing, the main reason XDA exists (or so I thought)
btw, thanked u when i was trying to quote ya, oh well, Ill share some love
There is really no better way to say it as both Danny and Russ summarized it very well. We are all here for one reason and one reason only, to SHARE. Isnt this what the "community" is about? I just hope the admins take a moment and reevaluate some of the people with powers around.
Ah before I forget, if you are gonna patent your "ideas" I really think its time for you to get a hold of apple, you already qualified with this mentality and in MY opinion, you do NOT belong here.
OK done venting... Thank u for listening.
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oh trust me it happens in other forums as well. sometimes xda favors those who they want to favor and do not pay any attention to the other party and they side with those who they want to side with..it looks like politics sometimes and whoever is the topdog here should re-valuate the way the mods run the show here.
But the other thing though is devs who do not want to share there work, the dev who asked for permission and got knocked back should respect the other dev's decision. like i said at my post above it goes both ways. we can share but we can also not share as well....it is a difficult scenario really...but kanging and not getting permission is wrong

Goku80 said:
oh trust me it happens in other forums as well. sometimes xda favors those who they want to favor and do not pay any attention to the other party and they side with those who they want to side with..it looks like politics sometimes and whoever is the topdog here should re-valuate the way the mods run the show here.
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Thats an other part of the discussion...
Who has the best friends here at XDA will win...
And those discussions are behind close doors.. As it would be better to show the "community" how they come to a decision.
And my post did not come out off the blue, but got me thinking on thinks that happend somewhere this week...
and made me a bit mad and disappointed @ xda
And I see a lot of people pushing the "thanks" button.. but I would like them to reply even more (hint xda staff )

DutchDanny said:
Thats an other part of the discussion...
Who has the best friends here at XDA will win...
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ahh mate that is so true. but not going to get into that. things should stay private specially between devs and mods. but sometimes us normal members like me would like to know what goes on though cause at the end of the day all this pickering effects the users of the roms cause we are the ones who miss out on class roms...so sometimes acting like kids is not always the best way to go about.

Goku80 said:
ahh mate that is so true. but not going to get into that. things should stay private specially between devs and mods. but sometimes us normal members like me would like to know what goes on though cause at the end of the day all this pickering effects the users of the roms cause we are the ones who miss out on class roms...so sometimes acting like kids is not always the best way to go about.
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I would not wanna see the whole discussion, but they could publish the outcome in the thread(s) involved. So the community knows what happend and why.
And if all devs did share, the users would have even more choice to pick from.
And if all devs did share, the hack/tweak would only get better/bigger.

Here is my view on it.... we all agree that the spirit of XDA is about sharing. So if a certain person has spent many hours on programming/creating something and refuses to share it... why post it on XDA in the first place. I just don't get it, because in my eyes that's something small children do when one has something better than the others and refuses to share.
If you want to go 'look at what I've done, isn't it good, aren't I good?' And then go 'but you can't use it, because if you do I'm going to throw a tantrum...' Don't post it on XDA... somewhere, where the main rule is about sharing what you've done.
Just my opinion
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

One of the main reason why I choose android is because of the openess of it. The reason why I'm in XDA is because of some great devs/hackers who spend time creating something wonderful and share it with the community without expecting anything in return. I really hope it stays that way.

DutchDanny said:
I would not wanna see the whole discussion, but they could publish the outcome in the thread(s) involved. So the community knows what happend and why.
And if all devs did share, the users would have even more choice to pick from.
And if all devs did share, the hack/tweak would only get better/bigger.
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DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you (at least in the part of permissions). If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.

jotha said:
DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you. If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
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I know you and me never saw eye to eye but you could not have put it any better. Well written post.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.

I have to agree with the the majority so far, it does seem against the open source culture in which XDA tries to foster.
It does seem with the increase in "kanging" it creates a conundrum for Mods & Admins as to how to manage this, Do we enforce sharing? Do we try to create our own sort of "patent" system in which certain things must be shared under a so called "fair" use and other items such as themes for example be left under the current system we have as present?
We need to find a consensus amongst us as a community with a right way to proceed with this maybe danny could add a poll this to garner opinion on weather people would like to keep the current system or change it to get some sort of indication on weather the current system is working or not.

jotha said:
DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you. If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
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I think you have a real good point there.
All that is released on XDA is under sharing policy.
And not to be claimed.
Credits are the least we could do...
btw: noting happend to me, but to members close to me.. But thanks
af974 said:
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
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Please take this in consideration, cause this is what made me mad on xda for the decission it made this week, and what made me start this open discussion.

af974 said:
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
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Click to collapse
Very well said, but to stay in your example, couldn't it be that the rom WITHOUT the two apk's is really "better" (in the sense of "more popular") than the original? And as long as the creator of that second version stats in his OP the he took the complete work of dev 1 and streamlined it, shouldn't that be enough?
You are absolutely right. The problem really is that some (more and more) guys lack that deserved respect for developers and just don't credit the source, thus pi... off the creator and making him "close" the source, thus restraining true development (if only by removing two apk ). The way to ensure a "fair use" should be discussed and finally fixed. Staying with the situation we have now, that ppl can keep others from using their bits more or less deliberately, maybe just because they don't like their "nose", can't be right. If there are good reasons (history of kanging or whatever), thats something else again.

I'm very sorry, cause I'm not a real dev or themer or contributor, just a young Andoid user and member who's integrated one team after pass sometime to found or help others xda members.
Why I came here on xda site. I'm french, my english is average, but some french forums bored me, that's why I came here, for all that @danny, @russ try to explain in this thread.
And since a couple of time, all of this spirit is gone. For what ?
Money, glory, respect...maybe? But I think not for the last term.
I am here because I want to share and help other members.
But also and because the eco-system Android allows this exchange and to move forward development for the pleasure of all.
Then stop, stop theses local wars and let yours feets on earth.
If you want to make some money, don't diffuse your codes, I think it's not necessary to stay here. Open your site and nobody will be able to take your codes.
Thanks for your listening

Here are my feelings on it.
What has angered me with certain attitudes towards sharing in xda recently, is that it seems to have been initially offered, then retracted. We are given a taste, then told "no more, go make your own". Was the plan to hook us like junkies, then we'd all only have one place to run to for our "fix"? Then when we are all hooked, the price goes up? No more freedom. Only one choice. Is that how you should gain followers on xda? I think we've been treated like guinea pigs then discarded. Permission is withdrawn, refused, then terms like "respect" get banded about. Don't treat us like this.
So we break free. Start from fresh. We are off the hook. Clean. But someone doesn't like us off the hook, pushing our own "product" and, worried about some false notion of competition or turf invasion, goes to lengths to make sure there is only one messiah.
Except this isn't a competition. We are not rivals in different factions or tribes or gangs depending on what Rom we choose to get involved with. We should not be in it for glory, or to be the "Big Dog" whose Rom is forbidden fruit to be envied by those who choose to wear the wrong colors. We are not looking to amass the biggest army as a mark of our success.
Why has this gotten this far? Without getting bogged down in the legalities of open source and gpl, I just think some people in high places need to take a step back. Stop and think. Where do you draw the line between keeping healthy community, encouraging development, and simply looking after your "homies"?
I feel this line is currently drawn in the wrong place. And it didn't use to be.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

There does need to be a clear consensus and line drawn, so we can all ensure that the rules are clear and followed.
That being said; I, like many agree but also disagree.
Sharing here is much like in a store; you as a consumer have a choice. Now albeit here we do not pay for your 'goods' we do still take certain risks(warranty's etc). Now, XDA is also about offering choice so if the sharing policy extends to the point that we can take everything then what choice will be left. Much like you see everywhere on XDA choice is being eliminated everywhere as more builds are essentially the same but for a few wallpapers and tweaks in the build.prop which quite frankly ruins the whole point of having choice and there being more than one available.
Fair enough if someone has spent hours/days/weeks making something and shares it here but that shouldn't automatically then mean that every other 'dev' can bang it in theirs. All they have to do it ctrl+c, ctrl+v the thing after all your hard spent effort on it. The developer should be allowed to be proud of their work and it not to be diluted with it being everywhere. Yes I think we should help, share and combine efforts but if you have improved something and don't wish to share it then fair enough there is no law to state you have to and should someone effectively plagiarise your work then there should be punishments.
If I ask someone for something I would like and they say no, then I go get it myself or do without. I don't just take it anyway, that's what babies do when they don't understand the laws of society which even apply when you are online.
That's my input.

Unofficial [ICS 4.0.3] D-Sense 4.0 general thread

Hey, since official thread was closed based on Shaky's request, I have opened new, unofficial one, so that there is no need to spam development threads where it does not belong to. There was starting some talk about Kernel 3.0, maybe some experienced ones can enlight this topic.
No offensive or dirty words, please.

To much smoke with no fire...
Not really sure that there will be something from it.
But let's wait and see.

Dafuq? Two threads plus development not enough?

all Shaky's threads are locked so not enough...

personaly i would say get the message... 3 threads locked. message recieved
Sent from my HTC Desire

come on, it was locked because of shaky was annoyed, but it does not mean community cannot talk about it...

zakka1da said:
come on, it was locked because of shaky was annoyed...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now the community will talk about the same thing here, so now ur just continuing on the reason why they were locked.
Sent from my HTC Desire

LOL I clearly remember when Shaky appeared on the Desire forums before the device was bought, there was this guy from DHD forum who commented " Oh shaky you're now here! After shaking a lot and not baking anything in the DHD" .. hahaha.. I feel really sorry for all of you who kept saying"oh shaky plz do sense 4 for us and you're god and what not!" All rubbish..
What I find hard to understand that why would a dev never talk about what's working and what's not behind the scenes ??? Not even in dev forum? People stopped writing in dev as per his request.. what happened at the end ???
All bull****! I'm not saying that he can't do something, only he knows better, but the way people have been treated in his forums are disgusting.. it never happened in threads in the likes of leedroid or coolexe etc.. everyone was given a chance to express and be heard..
I feel these new so called dev are "noobs" than normal users the people are maintaining their threds
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium

jmcclue said:
now the community will talk about the same thing here, so now ur just continuing on the reason why they were locked.
Sent from my HTC Desire
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I want them to talk about it, and omg, they were locked because Shaky wanted it, not moderators (except of some warnings in development thread). If it was because he did not want to read about it or any other reason, it does not matter, I just don't want this topic to die (when still some hope is alive, maybe).
Back to topic, in Droid Incredible forum I have read that PureMotive had some talk with Shaky and sbryan like 4 days ago and that guy sbryan is most probably looking into that audio issue... we will see

Conclusion : leave shaky alone, he's working hard for us and there is no need to make him under pression.
About this topic, mmmh ... too words, not enough acts ?

To me this thread looks like disrespect to shaky coz he closed two of them already clearly for a reason.
And now again will be the same everybody taking and nobody can actually provide even a simple logcat, you know how many tutorials with step by step explanations have been posted on xda lately for everything: porting ics, compiling kernel, compiling roms from source, kernel optimizations, modding,etc do why non of the talkatives take some time off their life and start working on porting sense 4 and/or kernel 3.0? Seriously this thread would be so much productive rather than waiting and pushing one person to the edge?m?
Does it make sense?
If I had time to waste for ungrateful users I'd work on this myself- however real life and work for now are more important to me.but I bet if any of you read the tutorials and got to know insides of android you could port it yourself. Even DK and Sandvold and Sebastian started like this by experimenting.
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda app-developers app

You guys want the perfect and official answer? PM to him
And my estimation of your next answer is
"How did I forget that!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: "
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda app-developers app

Good to see other people working on Sense 4.0 ....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=28222255&postcount=1447

When shaky was soliciting donations to buy his Desire you just had to check his history here at XDA to realize he is a prima donna that will probably let you down (if you chipped in for his phone). As the saying goes...he's all hat but no cattle. So I stayed well away.
Now, when laidbacknikez was doing the same (getting donations to buy a new Desire for developing) I did donate to him. He not only sent out a personal thank you note, he has delivered a fantastic ROM in spades...and I would bet he will give us Jellybean a well.
Sent from my NookTablet using xda premium

MrUrgit said:
Good to see other people working on Sense 4.0 ....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=28222255&postcount=1447
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for finding it, another slice of hope (and one of the reasons why I opened this thread, hope people won't now spam Aurora thread with silly questions for ETA [like one already did ])

zakka1da said:
thanks for finding it, another slice of hope (and one of the reasons why I opened this thread, hope people won't now spam Aurora thread with silly questions for ETA [like one already did ])
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everyone should just LEAVE IT unless they are going to help out with something productive.
if you compared the Nexus One thread and the Desire thread for the same shaky dev thread and the nexus one had like 3 pages, while the desire had about 100 in a short space of time.
I know people are excited and stuff but try and keep it to yourselves unless you have a bugreport or something useful to contribute.
in the meantime enjoy Gingerbread or ICS AOSP on your desire.

Lothaen said:
everyone should just LEAVE IT unless they are going to help out with something productive.
if you compared the Nexus One thread and the Desire thread for the same shaky dev thread and the nexus one had like 3 pages, while the desire had about 100 in a short space of time.
I know people are excited and stuff but try and keep it to yourselves unless you have a bugreport or something useful to contribute.
in the meantime enjoy Gingerbread or ICS AOSP on your desire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree, i onced used aurora rom but never really checked the thread after that. so yeah it was a good find and im glad that sense 4 is being worked on BUT now there is gona be 200+ atleast more people who are gona read this thread and click the link and its gona eventually lead to useless posts and comments just like shakys threads. i could be and hope im wrong but thats what i think.
Sent from my HTC Desire

One more thing I don't understand, if this is called 'FORUM' it's made to be written in it, so why some of us think that it shouldn't?
Sent from my HTC Desire via flashes and thunders

nlooooo said:
One more thing I don't understand, if this is called 'FORUM' it's made to be written in it, so why some of us think that it shouldn't?
Sent from my HTC Desire via flashes and thunders
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know what ur saying but my point was really why continue on from 3 threads that have already been locked? i just think its pointless. but if ye wana talk about it then go ahead
Sent from my HTC Desire

jmcclue said:
i know what ur saying but my point was really why continue on from 3 threads that have already been locked? i just think its pointless. but if ye wana talk about it then go ahead
Sent from my HTC Desire
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let it go man. If we can't make people stop creating threads to discuss what is the best rom of them all, we can't stop this thread too. :silly:

(DISCONTINUED)Why HOX cookers are allowed to hide HTC sources for the community?

when the rule on XDA is:
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, and HTC is no member, why to hold for only one member the right to post ROM's based on HTC work (RUU, OTA, etc)???
And, when a new RUU of OTA is used for developing a ROM, why have the right to don't share with other developers the source and keep only for himself whatever his name is???
Acceptance of such policy will not help HTC community at all, as already proven and give mods just headache.:crying:
P.S. This question is also for mods, the simply answer is to ...don't answer of close thread of delete it but there are coming many annoying new conflicting rules witch make XDA a private club in stead of Share and Care community!
Thanks Laurentius26, I have change the title of this thread.
P.P.S. Rule : Sources need to be posted for all kernels!!! but why not for ROM's also???
P.P.P.S thanks Laurentius26 thread title changed again!

Not a stupid but a good question.
It's because those people can't cook, they need to stay ahead a few steps so they have time to
process the hard work of those other developers in there roms (the people who do share there personal development).
It's pathetic what these cookers do to my opinion, but XDA can't force those people to share.
If you ask those cookers to share, they always have excuses like 'I need to protect my sources' blablabla....

Laurentius26 said:
Not a stupid but a good question.
It's because those people can't cook, they need to stay ahead a few steps so they have time to
process the hard work of those other developers in there roms (the people who do share there personal development).
It's pathetic what these cookers do to my opinion, but XDA can't force those people to share.
If you ask those cookers to share, they always have excuses like 'I need to protect my sources' blablabla....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(One of the reasons why I go with CM as the only custom rom . Btw this is an old case. And its not just about ROM Cookers but also Kernel "Somethingers" source, patch, mod gatherers ? I do not know how to call them.
Lately there are kernels cooked up with ppl gathering other ppl sources(even through other devices the dev never own and never will) without acknowledgement to the real dev. These ppl having the title "recognized developer" with over 10k thanks feel safe doing so as no one dares to oppose them.
And Laurentius, whats worst, the major community of XDA will back them up in hope for a praise from them or acknowledgement, or a new rom kernel.
Or there is another phenomenon happening, when asking for a fix, feature, just suggesting a functionality. You get an answer "if you dont like it, do not use it" before it was "Ah good idea, I might try it out" or at least "I have no time for this, sorry, but maybe someone else can look into it"
So the real problem is not the Cooker, Gatherer , but the sheepish community not seeing whats happening. That he can exploit something is just his own cleverness.

Trust me, it happens in every forum, even my old one
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

I want to step back for a second and remember if we judge each individual with the same set of rules.
And let's not forget that someone else had raised this problem some time ago and now supports the OP.
I think my information is right, please correct me if not.

I totally agree, I can understand when some people say I need to protect my sources such as Football and Xmoo, who do a great deal for this community, but still cannot share everything as they do have sources that could be jepordised by releasing things.
But I do agree that ROM Cookers are getting pissy and perhaps lazy or bored with the community and are now doing it for that "Donate" purpose.
Also, whats doing my head in, and what you may not have seen or agree with but people putting "Use Search" in EVERY THREAD that is being made is really doing my head in. If they keep doing that, when people do search they will only find threads with answers saying "Use the Search"

Q
Wilks3y said:
I totally agree, I can understand when some people say I need to protect my sources such as Football and Xmoo, who do a great deal for this community, but still cannot share everything as they do have sources that could be jepordised by releasing things.
But I do agree that ROM Cookers are getting pissy and perhaps lazy or bored with the community and are now doing it for that "Donate" purpose.
Also, whats doing my head in, and what you may not have seen or agree with but people putting "Use Search" in EVERY THREAD that is being made is really doing my head in. If they keep doing that, when people do search they will only find threads with answers saying "Use the Search"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The selfishness is coming because of fame purposes which names I don't want to mention. But honestly they are annoying, and before I flash certain dev's ROMs even if I get certain leaks I rather live without the leaks and have no source of information instead off all this silly *****ing between two high school girls.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

bippolinno said:
when the rule on XDA is:
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, and HTC is no member, why to hold for only one member the right to post ROM's based on HTC work (RUU, OTA, etc)???
And, when a new RUU of OTA is used for developing a ROM, why have the right to don't share with other developers the source and keep only for himself whatever his name is???
Acceptance of such policy will not help HTC community at all, as already proven and give mods just headache.:crying:
P.S. This question is also for mods, the simply answer is to ...don't answer of close thread of delete it but there are coming many annoying new conflicting rules witch make XDA a private club in stead of Share and Care community!
Thanks Laurentius26, I have change the title of this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue here is the latest JB Sense OTA. This was meant for internal testing purposes for HTC Elevate members and we all signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement before we were accepted onto the programme. Now, someone (and I don't know who) still felt the need to leak this file, even after signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT stating they wouldn't so you can ***** all you want but, to be honest, the RUUs shouldn't be leaking if they've come from a confidential source...

EddyOS said:
The issue here is the latest JB Sense OTA. This was meant for internal testing purposes for HTC Elevate members and we all signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement before we were accepted onto the programme. Now, someone (and I don't know who) still felt the need to leak this file, even after signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT stating they wouldn't so you can ***** all you want but, to be honest, the RUUs shouldn't be leaking if they've come from a confidential source...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eddy your comment doesn't bring anything to the issue at hand. Please read it again. I wouldn't say he is *****ing.
That it shouldn't leak in the first place is not the issue this is about.
Even with what you say it still means, someone took someone else work and is currently "enriching" himself. Breaking laws in process is just an added bonus. And I guess in this case the mods should close those threads with the leaks. Shouldn't they?
Its about, I will share it, but first download "my" work in 2 days you can play with it too.
So there is no such thing as "BUT" or exceptions. No 2 days of not sharing source if you put a rom out based on. In which case these threads have to be stopped immediately after someone refuses to share it. Or heck even before if it breaks some legal documents.
How come you aren't pursuing this with mods to close those threads down?

confidencial source
EddyOS said:
The issue here is the latest JB Sense OTA. This was meant for internal testing purposes for HTC Elevate members and we all signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement before we were accepted onto the programme. Now, someone (and I don't know who) still felt the need to leak this file, even after signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT stating they wouldn't so you can ***** all you want but, to be honest, the RUUs shouldn't be leaking if they've come from a confidential source...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK that I understand but when using the source for your own ROM only, means no leak from confidential source???
And as I said why source for kernels and not for ROM's???

The current issue is not related to the Elevate leak.

bippolinno said:
when the rule on XDA is:
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, and HTC is no member, why to hold for only one member the right to post ROM's based on HTC work (RUU, OTA, etc)???
And, when a new RUU of OTA is used for developing a ROM, why have the right to don't share with other developers the source and keep only for himself whatever his name is???
Acceptance of such policy will not help HTC community at all, as already proven and give mods just headache.:crying:
P.S. This question is also for mods, the simply answer is to ...don't answer of close thread of delete it but there are coming many annoying new conflicting rules witch make XDA a private club in stead of Share and Care community!
Thanks Laurentius26, I have change the title of this thread.
P.P.S. Rule : Sources need to be posted for all kernels!!! but why not for ROM's also???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't like how things are being handled you can always look on your own for sources and share them as you please (or as you can). Or maybe ask HTC for it.
The cook got hold something, let him use it as he pleases. He should have to do anything just because somebody else is *****ing about it.
If the way he handle things is not good enough for you, just ignore him.
Also, android's kernels are linux's so they have to be open source
Not the same with roms, since htc got closed source stuff inside

fredfb said:
If you don't like how things are being handled you can always look on your own for sources and share them as you please (or as you can). Or maybe ask HTC for it.
The cook got hold something, let him use it as he pleases. He should have to do anything just because somebody else is *****ing about it.
If the way he handle things is not good enough for you, just ignore him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A little off topic but I want to mention this one here, cooker/ROM creator baadnews, he was blaming HTC for slow updates a few weeks ago, he was telling why he is going to get s3.. its such a shame that people do not respect the work HTC puts behind sense interface. People like baadnews modify a few things, get reputation on XDA, get some donations and then start blaming htc? The company because of whom you are recognised as a developer in this forum? This is very very unfortunate... at least not expected from a developer like him... anyways...
Sent from my HTC One X

kryptoner said:
A little off topic but I want to mention this one here, cooker/ROM creator baadnews, he was blaming HTC for slow updates a few weeks ago, he was telling why he is going to get s3.. its such a shame that people do not respect the work HTC puts behind sense interface. People like baadnews modify a few things, get reputation on XDA, get some donations and then start blaming htc? The company because of whom you are recognised as a developer in this forum? This is very very unfortunate... at least not expected from a developer like him... anyways...
Sent from my HTC One X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea i agree with you, people should be complaining less =P

uqadwe said:
The current issue is not related to the Elevate leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might not be, I was just using it as an example

fredfb said:
If you don't like how things are being handled you can always look on your own for sources and share them as you please (or as you can). Or maybe ask HTC for it.
The cook got hold something, let him use it as he pleases. He should have to do anything just because somebody else is *****ing about it.
If the way he handle things is not good enough for you, just ignore him.
Also, android's kernels are linux's so they have to be open source
Not the same with roms, since htc got closed source stuff inside
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U could be right when not on XDA forums but here happens to be a place to share and care an not for private ROM's.
And FYI I have always supported developers cooking ROM's from scratch with respect for other developers work, I am totally against kang-ers, but this thread is for giving all developers same chance and to make XDA community better!

kryptoner said:
A little off topic but I want to mention this one here, cooker/ROM creator baadnews, he was blaming HTC for slow updates a few weeks ago, he was telling why he is going to get s3.. its such a shame that people do not respect the work HTC puts behind sense interface. People like baadnews modify a few things, get reputation on XDA, get some donations and then start blaming htc? The company because of whom you are recognised as a developer in this forum? This is very very unfortunate... at least not expected from a developer like him... anyways...
Sent from my HTC One X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rude to just single out certain people, baad has provided us with lots of good things so don't go have a go at him. If I'm thinking correctly he brought us the first jb sense rom and guide how to flash it.
My personal views is that everyone should share whatever they have/create.
This way people can see how and what is done. The only reason I see for some users not sharing, is like the other user posted, they don't want something they "created" in another ROM as they want all the "attention" to themselves, or they are scared that their ROM will become less popular, which I don't see as a problem, if someone prefers another ROM fine, let them use it.
If everybody was open about everything and shared, the rom/kernel development would be of twice the level it is at currently, it would benefit everyone, roms/kernels would have twice the amount of features.
But we still have those individuals who want to be ahead of everyone else and look "the best".
Just my two cents.

I really think this thread should be closed and deleted. It's only full of rant.
And it looks like we aren't even sticking to the subject and we are discussing other situations/developers.
Nevertheless, we are all very ungratefull people. I am really looking forword to see your work, RUU's, leak's etc.

mwilky said:
It's rude to just single out certain people, baad has provided us with lots of good things so don't go have a go at him. If I'm thinking correctly he brought us the first jb sense rom and guide how to flash it.
My personal views is that everyone should share whatever they have/create.
This way people can see how and what is done. The only reason I see for some users not sharing, is like the other user posted, they don't want something they "created" in another ROM as they want all the "attention" to themselves, or they are scared that their ROM will become less popular, which I don't see as a problem, if someone prefers another ROM fine, let them use it.
If everybody was open about everything and shared, the rom/kernel development would be of twice the level it is at currently, it would benefit everyone, roms/kernels would have twice the amount of features.
But we still have those individuals who want to be ahead of everyone else and look "the best".
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not rude, its a fact. I told what he did, there may be others like him too... I saw him, I pointed out the mistake, nothing against him... main point was to tell people to stop complaining, respect what HTC have given us, one x is a masterpiece
Sent from my HTC One X

PAGOT said:
Eddy your comment doesn't bring anything to the issue at hand. Please read it again. I wouldn't say he is *****ing.
That it shouldn't leak in the first place is not the issue this is about.
Even with what you say it still means, someone took someone else work and is currently "enriching" himself. Breaking laws in process is just an added bonus. And I guess in this case the mods should close those threads with the leaks. Shouldn't they?
Its about, I will share it, but first download "my" work in 2 days you can play with it too.
So there is no such thing as "BUT" or exceptions. No 2 days of not sharing source if you put a rom out based on. In which case these threads have to be stopped immediately after someone refuses to share it. Or heck even before if it breaks some legal documents.
How come you aren't pursuing this with mods to close those threads down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. It's not up to me to get threads closed, I was just stating that that specific OTA should never have seen the light of day
2. The OP isn't exactly clear
If you're on about people holding files until they have their ROM out first then I agree that it's a bit wrong but, at the end of the day, it's there choice