Community Engagement on xda developers
Where has the spirit gone of developers, making something better for all.
We like to make our devices better then what "stock" brings us.
But some people seem to forget what we are doing here: Create & Share
Why do people think that the "Open Source" software we are modifying or hacking is theirs to claim or Copyright.
Why are we not sharing and making better what others create...
Has the spirit here really gone?
And do we just want FAME ! !
If I was to create an app and hack Android, HTC or Samsung software by re-writing and adding code to it.
If this took me hours to do, this is still "Open Source" and people can copy my code in to their work.
The devs here are all working in a "Grey" area, and it's really hard not to see your work else where.
Consider it as a compliment if it is that way.
It took Google, HTC & Samsung hours to create what they made, do we care, and not touch it...
I don't think so ! !
HTC encrypts the Sense software because they don't want people to modify it... Do we care?
I don't think so...
So why do people/devs here on xda think that they can claim it for themselves?
Why do other devs get banned, or threads get closed if something similar is published?
We all Kang from Google, HTC & Samsung, but if we use some code from our fellow devs on xda, are we doing something wrong?
I don't get this!
I would really like this to be an open discussion, and try to clear this up for all of us.
My intention is not to start a fight, so please reply in a civilized way.
This also not directed to anybody in person
I hope the XDA staff can put themselves in my/our position, and try to understand it from this point of view.
My thoughts 1 day later @ post 141
DutchDanny said:
After a full day on this thread, I got more response then what I expected.
Thank you all for your participation.
You took the time to read this and give your opinion.
You all made me grow in my opinion, and maybe even change it a bit
What did it bring me:
Sharing now is for me: Collectively Developing (tnx Hacre)
I have no problems in being wrong, and might not have picked the correct words in some parts.
HIS POST
Good explanation on how the staff thinks
Thanks to my friend Russ for his well spoken words
HIS POST - HIS POST
What is reasonable and what not.
Tnx Ben, my fellow team member got me thinking as well
HIS POST - HIS POST
What am I gonna do now
beside building a rom and a kernel....
Gonna dig even more in the smali code (tnx af974)
HIS POST - HIS POST
For me this discussion is finished... Tnx ALL I'm gonna move on...
If the staff thinks the same, lock it for reference.
Cheers
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The ETHOS of XDA-Developers
Back when I was a Senior Moderator, I was asked to put into words what the mythical Ethos of XDA-Developers was. This was then debated by the moderators, Administrators and owners, it was never formally adopted but it was accepted by most as the closest anyone had come to defining what XDA is (was).
Ethos: an English word based on a Greek word and denotes the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, a nation or an ideology.
XDA-Developers was founded on the simple principal that SHARING IS GOOD and when many people SHARE what they know, EVERYONE benefits. We exist upon this Ethos, we respect each other, we SHARE with each other, we do not judge one another and we HELP all who ask. We believe that while some may have more knowledge than another, none are more important.
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It pains me greatly to see how XDA has degraded over the years to become a playground of egos and pissing contests between little boys who think they own what they stole from someone else.
I have been a strong supporter of XDA for many, many years but, I find my desire to support XDA is waning as the climate of sharing and camaraderie shift toward a climate of ownership and entitlement.
agreed so many phones left behind due to ego and epeen ppl always bailing on phones just because its not popular it takes work to get publicity ...
Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk
it was the same issues on the galaxy s2. people kanging others and people getting annoyed and ending up releasing stuff with the exclusivity and banning others from using it.
android is an open source at the end of the day. if someone wants to kang someone as long as credits are given and links to the originator's thread what is wrong with that? at the end of the day it should be a compliment to the originator that someone wants to kang your work and share it with the masses.
now i can understand if someone passes something over as their own and did not give credits. that is wrong and the culprits should be banned. but as stated above if proper credits are given then i do not see the harm in things.
but again on the flip side though if i was to spend hours and hours on something then the person who asks me for permission they should respect that i do not want to share...it kinda goes both ways really so it is hard to judge...but there are devs and themers included who act like real divas and most of the time now they do things for fame as Danny mentioned.
at the end of the day we are xda and we are here as a community and here to make our phones better and that is why the devs on this awesome site come in...devs should be sharing ideas together..not competing against each other
Franzferdinan51 said:
agreed so many phones left behind due to ego and epeen ppl always bailing on phones just because its not popular it takes work to get publicity ...
Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk
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Not sure we are talking about the same thing here my friend, its a much more important subject, sharing, the main reason XDA exists (or so I thought)
btw, thanked u when i was trying to quote ya, oh well, Ill share some love
There is really no better way to say it as both Danny and Russ summarized it very well. We are all here for one reason and one reason only, to SHARE. Isnt this what the "community" is about? I just hope the admins take a moment and reevaluate some of the people with powers around.
Ah before I forget, if you are gonna patent your "ideas" I really think its time for you to get a hold of apple, you already qualified with this mentality and in MY opinion, you do NOT belong here.
OK done venting... Thank u for listening.
DaDoctor said:
Not sure we are talking about the same thing here my friend, its a much more important subject, sharing, the main reason XDA exists (or so I thought)
btw, thanked u when i was trying to quote ya, oh well, Ill share some love
There is really no better way to say it as both Danny and Russ summarized it very well. We are all here for one reason and one reason only, to SHARE. Isnt this what the "community" is about? I just hope the admins take a moment and reevaluate some of the people with powers around.
Ah before I forget, if you are gonna patent your "ideas" I really think its time for you to get a hold of apple, you already qualified with this mentality and in MY opinion, you do NOT belong here.
OK done venting... Thank u for listening.
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oh trust me it happens in other forums as well. sometimes xda favors those who they want to favor and do not pay any attention to the other party and they side with those who they want to side with..it looks like politics sometimes and whoever is the topdog here should re-valuate the way the mods run the show here.
But the other thing though is devs who do not want to share there work, the dev who asked for permission and got knocked back should respect the other dev's decision. like i said at my post above it goes both ways. we can share but we can also not share as well....it is a difficult scenario really...but kanging and not getting permission is wrong
Goku80 said:
oh trust me it happens in other forums as well. sometimes xda favors those who they want to favor and do not pay any attention to the other party and they side with those who they want to side with..it looks like politics sometimes and whoever is the topdog here should re-valuate the way the mods run the show here.
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Thats an other part of the discussion...
Who has the best friends here at XDA will win...
And those discussions are behind close doors.. As it would be better to show the "community" how they come to a decision.
And my post did not come out off the blue, but got me thinking on thinks that happend somewhere this week...
and made me a bit mad and disappointed @ xda
And I see a lot of people pushing the "thanks" button.. but I would like them to reply even more (hint xda staff )
DutchDanny said:
Thats an other part of the discussion...
Who has the best friends here at XDA will win...
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ahh mate that is so true. but not going to get into that. things should stay private specially between devs and mods. but sometimes us normal members like me would like to know what goes on though cause at the end of the day all this pickering effects the users of the roms cause we are the ones who miss out on class roms...so sometimes acting like kids is not always the best way to go about.
Goku80 said:
ahh mate that is so true. but not going to get into that. things should stay private specially between devs and mods. but sometimes us normal members like me would like to know what goes on though cause at the end of the day all this pickering effects the users of the roms cause we are the ones who miss out on class roms...so sometimes acting like kids is not always the best way to go about.
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I would not wanna see the whole discussion, but they could publish the outcome in the thread(s) involved. So the community knows what happend and why.
And if all devs did share, the users would have even more choice to pick from.
And if all devs did share, the hack/tweak would only get better/bigger.
Here is my view on it.... we all agree that the spirit of XDA is about sharing. So if a certain person has spent many hours on programming/creating something and refuses to share it... why post it on XDA in the first place. I just don't get it, because in my eyes that's something small children do when one has something better than the others and refuses to share.
If you want to go 'look at what I've done, isn't it good, aren't I good?' And then go 'but you can't use it, because if you do I'm going to throw a tantrum...' Don't post it on XDA... somewhere, where the main rule is about sharing what you've done.
Just my opinion
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
One of the main reason why I choose android is because of the openess of it. The reason why I'm in XDA is because of some great devs/hackers who spend time creating something wonderful and share it with the community without expecting anything in return. I really hope it stays that way.
DutchDanny said:
I would not wanna see the whole discussion, but they could publish the outcome in the thread(s) involved. So the community knows what happend and why.
And if all devs did share, the users would have even more choice to pick from.
And if all devs did share, the hack/tweak would only get better/bigger.
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DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you (at least in the part of permissions). If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
jotha said:
DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you. If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
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I know you and me never saw eye to eye but you could not have put it any better. Well written post.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
I have to agree with the the majority so far, it does seem against the open source culture in which XDA tries to foster.
It does seem with the increase in "kanging" it creates a conundrum for Mods & Admins as to how to manage this, Do we enforce sharing? Do we try to create our own sort of "patent" system in which certain things must be shared under a so called "fair" use and other items such as themes for example be left under the current system we have as present?
We need to find a consensus amongst us as a community with a right way to proceed with this maybe danny could add a poll this to garner opinion on weather people would like to keep the current system or change it to get some sort of indication on weather the current system is working or not.
jotha said:
DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you. If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
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I think you have a real good point there.
All that is released on XDA is under sharing policy.
And not to be claimed.
Credits are the least we could do...
btw: noting happend to me, but to members close to me.. But thanks
af974 said:
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
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Please take this in consideration, cause this is what made me mad on xda for the decission it made this week, and what made me start this open discussion.
af974 said:
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
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Very well said, but to stay in your example, couldn't it be that the rom WITHOUT the two apk's is really "better" (in the sense of "more popular") than the original? And as long as the creator of that second version stats in his OP the he took the complete work of dev 1 and streamlined it, shouldn't that be enough?
You are absolutely right. The problem really is that some (more and more) guys lack that deserved respect for developers and just don't credit the source, thus pi... off the creator and making him "close" the source, thus restraining true development (if only by removing two apk ). The way to ensure a "fair use" should be discussed and finally fixed. Staying with the situation we have now, that ppl can keep others from using their bits more or less deliberately, maybe just because they don't like their "nose", can't be right. If there are good reasons (history of kanging or whatever), thats something else again.
I'm very sorry, cause I'm not a real dev or themer or contributor, just a young Andoid user and member who's integrated one team after pass sometime to found or help others xda members.
Why I came here on xda site. I'm french, my english is average, but some french forums bored me, that's why I came here, for all that @danny, @russ try to explain in this thread.
And since a couple of time, all of this spirit is gone. For what ?
Money, glory, respect...maybe? But I think not for the last term.
I am here because I want to share and help other members.
But also and because the eco-system Android allows this exchange and to move forward development for the pleasure of all.
Then stop, stop theses local wars and let yours feets on earth.
If you want to make some money, don't diffuse your codes, I think it's not necessary to stay here. Open your site and nobody will be able to take your codes.
Thanks for your listening
Here are my feelings on it.
What has angered me with certain attitudes towards sharing in xda recently, is that it seems to have been initially offered, then retracted. We are given a taste, then told "no more, go make your own". Was the plan to hook us like junkies, then we'd all only have one place to run to for our "fix"? Then when we are all hooked, the price goes up? No more freedom. Only one choice. Is that how you should gain followers on xda? I think we've been treated like guinea pigs then discarded. Permission is withdrawn, refused, then terms like "respect" get banded about. Don't treat us like this.
So we break free. Start from fresh. We are off the hook. Clean. But someone doesn't like us off the hook, pushing our own "product" and, worried about some false notion of competition or turf invasion, goes to lengths to make sure there is only one messiah.
Except this isn't a competition. We are not rivals in different factions or tribes or gangs depending on what Rom we choose to get involved with. We should not be in it for glory, or to be the "Big Dog" whose Rom is forbidden fruit to be envied by those who choose to wear the wrong colors. We are not looking to amass the biggest army as a mark of our success.
Why has this gotten this far? Without getting bogged down in the legalities of open source and gpl, I just think some people in high places need to take a step back. Stop and think. Where do you draw the line between keeping healthy community, encouraging development, and simply looking after your "homies"?
I feel this line is currently drawn in the wrong place. And it didn't use to be.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
There does need to be a clear consensus and line drawn, so we can all ensure that the rules are clear and followed.
That being said; I, like many agree but also disagree.
Sharing here is much like in a store; you as a consumer have a choice. Now albeit here we do not pay for your 'goods' we do still take certain risks(warranty's etc). Now, XDA is also about offering choice so if the sharing policy extends to the point that we can take everything then what choice will be left. Much like you see everywhere on XDA choice is being eliminated everywhere as more builds are essentially the same but for a few wallpapers and tweaks in the build.prop which quite frankly ruins the whole point of having choice and there being more than one available.
Fair enough if someone has spent hours/days/weeks making something and shares it here but that shouldn't automatically then mean that every other 'dev' can bang it in theirs. All they have to do it ctrl+c, ctrl+v the thing after all your hard spent effort on it. The developer should be allowed to be proud of their work and it not to be diluted with it being everywhere. Yes I think we should help, share and combine efforts but if you have improved something and don't wish to share it then fair enough there is no law to state you have to and should someone effectively plagiarise your work then there should be punishments.
If I ask someone for something I would like and they say no, then I go get it myself or do without. I don't just take it anyway, that's what babies do when they don't understand the laws of society which even apply when you are online.
That's my input.
Related
Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
WM6 is new. SO NEW that Third-Party app developers haven't gotten all their fixes in. Our ROM chefs aren't responsible for those errors. Research and develop a fix, wait until someone develops a fix, or wait for the app developer...But before installing a rom you need to weigh whether or not it is worth it to loose some of your favorite apps. If you must have SPB plus and you read that people are having issues with it don't install the rom UNLESS you want to help find the fix. IF NOT...WAIT until the app developer upgrades their app. Don't install it and then post complaints and threads.
The chefs of these roms aren't here to help you setup your device and to solve all of your issues. If you have issues read, search and fix them. The research is part of the fun...finding fixes is part of the fun. Finding new ways to configure your device and setups is FUN. By asking first you're not participating in the best part of the forum.
As for fixing the "noob" issue...I think there is one pretty good solution.
I think the only way to fix such an issue is to either restrict new users from posting in the the WM6 forums for a period of time after joining. Hopefully you'll use that period of time to read. Because if you choose to install a rom and you know you can't ask a question you'll probably be more apt to read.
I'm not anti-noob. I was a noob once and I am still a noob in many ways. I also know that there are some good noobs in the forum. But I'm tired of taking the time to read the threads for critical information and coming across posts for how to install a new theme or where did the backlight on my keyboard go. That's where your user manual or the HTC website comes in. For Cingular people you have a great resource over @ the Cingular forums.
This is a community of like minded technical individuals. This is not HTC tech support or your carriers support. No one here owes you ANYTHING. You install a rom it's on you. If you can't take the responsibility then don't install the rom. It's pretty simple really.
I just had to get that off my chest. I'm sick and cranky but that only played a small role.
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)
Helping is useless you just get bashed for it. Instead of putting useless programs that the "chef" uses they could spend that time using the carrier files located in the rom kitchen to help out users which takes all of what 3 minutes if that to recompile for a carrier. This would be much more productive then *****ing when someone tries to help by doing that. It's a joke suggesting someone help when they get nothing but grief and sarcasm when they do.
the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.
99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.
Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.
EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)
Also note, that recompiling a compressed ROM will cause issues to the people that have installed it. you must decompile the original OS.nb that hasnt been compressed.
jasjamming said:
the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.
99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.
Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.
EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)
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Yes, you have proved you dont give a **** seeing you post the files that dont work
tell WPbear that and the hundreds of people that got cingular working with that.
And just to remind you its not my job to ensure u set up your carrier. You found a fix, damn mate, post it in the thread.
Although this is an open source community in a way, it is still harmful to the developrs if their work is ripped off without courtesy. ASk first then post later, not post first and hope its ok!
this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.
jasjamming said:
this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.
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You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.
/story
xultar said:
Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
......
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)
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I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.
However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.
Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.
Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.
AdamZhang said:
I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.
However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.
Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.
Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.
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no its not a must to donate... but its nice to be appreciated especially when the 'CHEF' has spend hours upon hours of his time and experience to benefit the community... honestly where would we be without these guys??? we would have locked handsets and be stuck with crappy carrier ROM's...
Hmmm
The noobs who post the ridiculous questions that have been answered many times before are (by their very nature) highly unlikely to read or care about this thread.....
Whilst I agree with some of the underlying points (read the wiki and the threads, use the search function etc) surely the more people who get interested in these devices, the wider they will be available and the better support etc from the carriers and htc will be available, meaning people here can spend more time developing rather than fixing bugs? The initial post just reads as if basically if you are not an experienced developer then you can just **** off. Not sure if (a) that is how it was meant or (b) that is the majority view.
Me thinks that xultar and custel need to grow up! Although you both evidently came into this as experts(sic), some others did not have your apparent vast wealth of experience to fall back on. To insult senior members, mods, and our chefs is unacceptable behavior! I, and I am sure others, are hoping to see you go!
The search functions can be a bit of a challenge....LOL, but insults and criticism are not needed.....Do us all a favor and just leave!
Okay.....there's my 4 cents worth..........
Later
NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)
cruiserman said:
NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)
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Even better NOOBS with BOOBS,
ElGato65 said:
Even better NOOBS with BOOBS,
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... or boobs with noobs
ROFLMAO!!!
Same song, different forums. Yes, the noobs need to read the wiki and learn more, but we've all been there and need to remember what it was like getting yelled at in the forums. Yes, some of the "experts" think they're on a pedestal and can be huge jerks, but they've seen the same 10 questions about 1000 times and they help create noob resources like the wiki and the cool roms. Most of us are sitting in the middle just watching both sides screaming and thinking, "it's just a forum, wtf?"
I realize that the real issue began because of all the noobs bricking their phones trying to do things they don't fully understand and the animosity that comes from the ROM archive being removed as an indirect result. In case no one has noticed, this is not exactly an underground site and has become pretty popular with the increasing popularity of HTC products and the fine work that many of the contributors here have done. (Not to mention all the ppc sites that have linked to this one.)
The original post had some good points and I think was well-intended, however, Custel and Jasjamming decided to bring their personal beef with each other into it. If you two would like to argue with each other, feel free to use the private message function. Neither of you are helping this topic and only furthering the idea that a low post count means you're flame bait and a high post count means that you're allowed to tell people what they can and cannot post openly in the threads despite not being a mod. The moral here? We're all part of the same community here, so stop pissing on the neighbor's flowers and just tell him calmly that you're allergic while keeping in mind the other neighbors might like them.
As for the noobs destroying their phones with software they didn't understand and asking really simple over-asked questions, maybe we should make a quiz of basic information that pertains to each model and the information needed to do basic mods to them that all members have to answer with a certain percentage of success before allowing posts or access to download links (exluding a few basic forums). Each group that's active enough could make up their own pop quiz (Hermes, Trinity, etc...). All questions sourced from the wiki of course. Just a thought, since the only other suggestion seems to be to scream at the new guys and tell them to read (and search, which btw, really sucks on most forums since you have to know exactly what you're searching for to find anything useful in many cases).
having successfully upgraded several different models of HTC device to WinMo6 I know that there's very little risk from the process and a hell of a lot to gain.
Nobody here with a new-ish handset that's considering the upgrade is destitute and penniless, considering what the devices cost I'm beginning to wonder why donations to either the chefs or XDA devs isn't the norm...
Seriously, there are a lot of tight bastards around here, more than there are 'new' users who can't be arsed to use the search before opening the 30th thread asking for help on the exact same issue.
Post from a NOOB
Guys,
Let me give you a viewpoint from a NOOB. I would not call myself technically challenged nor lazy, but definitely new to this wonderful forum where some people who are way more cooler than me have found ways to help me make better use of my handheld than what I had stock.
Yes, I read the Hermes wiki checked through all (or the threads I thought were relevant) to make sure that this was something I wanted to (and could) do without bricking my expensive device. Even though I thought I read quite a lot, and did everything the wiki said, after I did something I could not verify whether what I did worked or not (like the time I SuperCID-ed my phone and did not know what the steps where to confirm it happened). So I ask. Some times people answer my questions, sometime they dont.
Yes, noobs need to know not to quote large message chunks, they need to read before they ask. I agree to all that. But some people say things like if you are not technical dont even bother to be here, that's insulting.
Though I read and re-read Xultar's initial post and I did not see anything there that really insulted me. I think he had a valid point that if you think you are faint of heart, please stick to your carrier's forum. These forums and this great site is for those adventurers (it just gives me an ego boost to think that way ;-)) who like to go where no man has gone before.
I have been here probably 2 weeks, and I feel like I found a place where I can belong. I just wish I were cool enough to really cook some ROMS. But I think I can get started in small ways.
Jasjamming, I understand your frustration when people take what you have taken great pains in doing and then repackage it, especially without your permission. No excuses for that. But it does not behoove for someone of your stature in this community to bad mouth people. I (and am sure more noobs like me) look up to people like you, kyphur and LVSW who can do things that most of us can just dream about. Just let go or I am sure that the moderators of this forum can remove those posts without much problem.
Sorry for the long rant, but I like this place. And felt I had to weigh in on this conversation.
CUSTEL said:
You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.
/story
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its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...
Now everyone play nice or find a different board.
shogunmark said:
its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...
Now everyone play nice or find a different board.
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Please delete this thread. I'll send a PM to a Mod as well.
Thanks.
Delete This
You better delete this. There is a reason these roms are not on xda
sent with love from me to you
?
habarug said:
you better delete this. There is a reason these roms are not on xda
sent with love from me to you
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and why is that ?
Sorry to say Feeyo was band so his work is not welcome here
Sent from my HTC Hero running Cronos Ginger X using Tapatalk
Arranmc182 said:
Sorry to say Feeyo was band so his work is not welcome here
Sent from my HTC Hero running Cronos Ginger X using Tapatalk
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Damn! i had no idea how can i delete the thread ?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7663719&postcount=802
could be fun to leave this "delete this" thread around for a little while before killing it off... I for one have plenty of things I'd like to say and then have deleted.
could we all just start posting random **** here with the knowledge that it will soon be deleted?
Like if we all had a chance to do something crazy and say whatever was on our minds and know that it would all be erased from history, what would each of us say?
heh heh
don u tripping?? sounds like u've been smoking alotta pot mate
bharat_goku said:
don u tripping?? sounds like u've been smoking alotta pot mate
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heh heh whooooaaahh
;-)
actually listening to radiohead while at work... radiohead messes with your head a bit...
wtf we all gonna get banned for bumping **** in this thread^^
Well only on the HTC Hero forums people are like AAA its feeyo stuff remove it :O
You guys ever looked on the magic forums? There is a cronos rom on there. and well mods never been in there to say. guys this is crap. remove it....
Most guys who go about this Feeyo stuff act like your 12 or something and your parents said. that is was utherly bad. But some logic thinking and objectiv reading you can see that it was just a stupid war who has the best rom. back then it was.... and it is still the case.
Now he is doing everything according to all the rules known, and well I think the more stuff we got, the more we can base stuff on it. I am so in the mood to post a topic about all the cronos roms XD and if I get banned then. Well then that is just silly and sad
Guys grow up. he was banned like a year a go?? The past is the past. and well he did get the GB roms to what we are currently using so we should remove all the GB roms?? cuss most stuff CM needed to get GB working commes from Feeyo. so lets delete all GB roms...
guess my point is clear. It is darn open source.. and you all act like its not.
Lirasina said:
guess my point is clear. It is darn open source.. and you all act like its not.
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LOL. That is an exact sentiment many have expressed about Feeyo, you're right Android is open source, but Feeyo did not follow the GNU/GPL guidelines. Hence the reason he was banned.
JieeHD said:
LOL. That is an exact sentiment many have expressed about Feeyo, you're right Android is open source, but Feeyo did not follow the GNU/GPL guidelines. Hence the reason he was banned.
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That is correct. But the stuff he creates now does follow those things, so there is no reason for not allowing someone to post it on XDA. Well it is easy, if I smash Fly13 in it and then post it. its a different rom :O
Lirasina said:
That is correct. But the stuff he creates now does follow those things, so there is no reason for not allowing someone to post it on XDA. Well it is easy, if I smash Fly13 in it and then post it. its a different rom :O
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Well if you can prove that Feeyo is regularly pushing and committing his changes to github or a similar code hosting site, then yes there wouldn't be a problem.
Also your second point, I totally disagree with, its not a different 'ROM' at all but merely the same 'ROM' but with an newer or older kernel. At best, its a patch.
Sent from my HD2 using xda premium
Lirasina said:
That is correct. But the stuff he creates now does follow those things, so there is no reason for not allowing someone to post it on XDA. Well it is easy, if I smash Fly13 in it and then post it. its a different rom :O
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I agree with you and also think that the whole thing is ironic since all sense roms and many other roms built on xda break rules also. but whatever... as JieeHD said, it doesn't adhere to GNU/GPL guidelines, but it isn't actually illegal to not follow those particular guidelines. It IS however not allowed and xda is big on gpl compliance, as it should be I suppose, so this all makes sense.
People get way too involved in defending the (imho rather flawed) GNU/GPL guidelines.
This is one reason why I only release software under much more open licenses. GNU/GPL is designed with good sharing values in mind but it unfortunately has proven to bring out a rather militant side of some people - which is the exact opposite to the values that brought together those of us who were the original developers of open source software back in the 80s.
The rules and regulations were originally added to prevent people from using open source code in commercial apps without giving full credit and asking permission first.
And the accusation was that Feeyo was doing that same thing - using open source code and yet not giving credit where it was due and claiming it was his own code in his kernel.
I have seen evidence showing both sides of the matter, both showing the code to be the same in parts, and yet the evidence has shown at times other devs to have written it before feeyo, and yet in other examples it has shown feeyo to have written it first before other devs.
He has stood his ground consistently as have the accusers in this case.
The problem, however, is that the guidelines of the gpl say that the developer must provide full source code when asked. So when feeyo has refused to do so, the assumption has always been that he has been stealing code or claiming other's code as his own.
When in fact, all he has ever been proven to have done that I'm aware of is not providing code when asked to do so. edit: and yes, this does break gpl guidelines... but it's always been considered a rather small infraction other than with Feeyo for some reason.
In the end he did change everything to comply and he has complied for the better part of a year now.
Since complying is all that is required to be free and legal again according to the gnu/gpl regulations, his roms and code should be fine to post here now.
however as a member he himself is still banned afaik. but if someone posts his work it should be just fine, and as noted other forums have no issue with his work and actually welcome it.
I was really involved in the whole thing and a friend of one of the people who was involved in feeyo being accused in the first case. But I also like feeyo and have a lot of respect for him as he has made great roms and his support is second to none.
Just adding my 3 cents worth ;-)
ryanraven said:
Delete This
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Dude, you a are in danger now
Hectic! Don, you and others, have mentioned "the one of whom we shall not speak" again.
Just to clarify, are we at least allowed to talk about him? This sounds more and more like the law that the S.A. Government is trying to pass through our Parliament today. Objectors will be wearing black armbands in protest. The Govt. don't want to include a "Public Interest clause" ( relating to the Secrecy Act)in our constitution. This means that even if Govt. members have done something that can adversely affect the public at large, you can get a jail sentence of up to 15 years for even being in possession of such information, never mind divulging this information to anyone.
Makes you think Huh?
Okay... IF it is so that Feeyo now is publishing his code and all that... then I think we should do this the proper way and ASK the mods if they can remove the ban. As far I know It's just a temporary ban. So if you do this and the mods let him in, I'll never speak of "the unmentiomable" again
sent with love from me to you
Unfortunately it was a permaban after Feeyo broke rules by creating another acount whilst being temp banned.
I wish it were different, Feeyo is a great dev and for most of us has had a positive impact on the whole hero experience.
Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk
and it's always exciting when he's here LoL.... ah, I miss the drama...
Remember how in High School or College you would have to DO YOUR RESEARCH to find your information before turning it in to your teacher or professor?...So far in the past 12 months this XDA School Research Skill and Overall GPA has dropped. In this SGSII class of the school, we are bringing our GPA up, and now we are on a level thats "considered passing". I was a new student in this class about 2 weeks ago and everyone made me feel like I was at home, but the rest of the school im not to sure about. XDA school was the one everyone went to about everything Android. Now since the teachers and students are slowly turning in degrees, we are loosing a lot of our students and teachers to other schools. We cannot let this happen because this is where it all started. We have to start gaining the quality of our school back, our prestige is dropping.
So lets get started...
Instead of teachers having to spend extra time assisting students, students should learn to RESEARCH and Experiment on their own time. Teachers only volunteer at this school. No paychecks, pensions, workman's compensation, just breaks and retiremen. Teachers should help students more and explain things more in a detailed fashion. XDA School is changing so we have to change with it. Dont fight it, go with the flow and make it work for everyone. There has to be a line to draw in the middle, where students can help one another, troubleshoot, and have fun with the teachers. Im a teacher myself and comming up with lesson plans that will hold everyone in the class over until I write a new one is not easy. Sleep is lost, donations are good, but overall not good enough to deal with the stress in our personal lives because we all go through it. Competition is always present but thats no excuse for teachers to critique other teachers. We may not be together in reality but we are a community, so lets act like it.
:-D
_Thursday
good luck. Popularity of this site attracts the people in school who just want to get by and have all the answers given to them. I can't see this thread going in the right direction. These threads just make things worse to be honest
jessejames111981 said:
good luck. Popularity of this site attracts the people in school who just want to get by and have all the answers given to them...
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to be specific
... on a silver platter and spoon fed
it's not just this section, it's all over XDA, all the popular devices are like that, even the new GN section
jessejames111981 said:
good luck. Popularity of this site attracts the people in school who just want to get by and have all the answers given to them. I can't see this thread going in the right direction. These threads just make things worse to be honest
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I just thought it more people were aware of the issues we would be able to fix them together. Ill just have the principle close the class down if students and or teachers start to bring it down.
_Thursday
AllGamer said:
to be specific
... on a silver platter and spoon fed
it's not just this section, it's all over XDA, all the popular devices are like that, even the new GN section
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Thats such a shame, i have been around since android rooting started and being here on XDA was considered a privilege
_Thursday
I miss people being go getters and trying to learn stuff themselves. I think everyone is willing to help a noob but only if they are willing to help themselves. That's what we have a lack of, people trying to help themselves.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
xsteven77x said:
I miss people being go getters and trying to learn stuff themselves. I think everyone is willing to help a noob but only if they are willing to help themselves. That's what we have a lack of, people trying to help themselves.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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The worse part about it is, the quality of the issues people report in threads. Most of the time they are "non issue issues" Meaning its not a bug in the ROM just a problem that they are having.
They will post their problem and hope for someone to get a fix for them and get upset when people flame them. The people who can fix the problem have no right to flame either. Fighting fire with fire has become way to common here. The people dont say things like "I looked online in such and such place but i dont understand what its telling me, or this method is outdated any updates on it", nothing like that, that shows they were putting fourth an effort in the first place. It was such a joy for me to research and learn because it led me to create ROMs and themes. I felt a lot better when I figured out how to fix my own problems and it made me a better Rooted android user.
I think te problem is "free stuff" attracts those type of people. Google has done a great thing with the open source stuff. I wish there was a system in place that encouraged organized companies to produce ROMs, granite that means those roms would be pay only and the current system doesn't work with it. You can choose to stick with the stock touchwiz rom OR you could pay to run aosp made by company X or you could download a free rom made by thursday. How much has this community donated to various devs in "hopes" they dev something good?
Android has blown up recently and people like to customize their phone. Old days of only tech geeks using roms are gone. People need answers fed to them. If they paid money for a rom they should be entitled to those answers given to them.
Agreed..
DARKSIDE...join us we have nice treats T989
jessejames111981 said:
I think te problem is "free stuff" attracts those type of people. Google has done a great thing with the open source stuff. I wish there was a system in place that encouraged organized companies to produce ROMs, granite that means those roms would be pay only and the current system doesn't work with it. You can choose to stick with the stock touchwiz rom OR you could pay to run aosp made by company X or you could download a free rom made by thursday. How much has this community donated to various devs in "hopes" they dev something good?
Android has blown up recently and people like to customize their phone. Old days of only tech geeks using roms are gone. People need answers fed to them. If they paid money for a rom they should be entitled to those answers given to them.
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Yea brother, i mean ill say yea again to that one. If people actually paid for me to deliver week in and week out id quit my day job seriously to work right here from home.
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
I was here from the start with the G1, granted out was a few months after the release, buy nonetheless I did my own research asked questions when I was TRULY stuck and solved my own problems by searching the threads/forums. People come in here (XDA) and "flame" one another for asking a question and folks that come in here creating threads and posts REPEATEDLY about the same topic. It honestly needs to be stopped and monitored more closely because all it does is clutter threads and makes it difficult for those trying to do it on their own.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
I haven't been here as long as most but since I joined when I purchased my evo it went from thank you to gimme gimme. Not to mention the flame fests,including entire threads filled with pics about the ensuing flame fest. Infractions should start being issued a lot more frequently and even to the point of issuing them to the members who post nothing questions over and over again and get in a tiff when they don't get an answer for "why is my phone crashing after I didn't wipe from cm7 to sense"anyways just wish it would go back to respect and appreciation.
via my bleached S2
as ridiculous as it seems, Maybe their should be an entire thread dedicated to a Roms "Issues" - I know creating another thread means another one to view, but jesus think about how many times a market error question could be answered by the title of a thread there and the amount of pages it would save on any given rom. I know this is literally bending to the will of noobs who won't research, but if you can't teach them, at least try to confine them
jessejames111981 said:
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
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???...I dont follow you.
I never ask people to donate. Hes doing a bounty to get Eugene373 here.
_Thursday
hunterjay7 said:
as ridiculous as it seems, Maybe their should be an entire thread dedicated to a Roms "Issues" - I know creating another thread means another one to view, but jesus think about how many times a market error question could be answered by the title of a thread there and the amount of pages it would save on any given rom. I know this is literally bending to the will of noobs who won't research, but if you can't teach them, at least try to confine them
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I see what your saying but that defeats the purpose, if i create a market error thread, then theyll ask for just about everything, the flood gates would open right up. If people would stop being lazy then everything would be ok.
_Thursday
jessejames111981 said:
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
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Lol
SGSII T989~ juggernaut v4.1~synergy v0.10
jessejames111981 said:
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
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lmfao 10char
_Thursday said:
???...I dont follow you.
I never ask people to donate. Hes doing a bounty to get Eugene373 here.
_Thursday
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Its an inside joke (a good one too) based on the amount of bounty threads he does and how quick he is to start them.
Reading this thread bummed me out. I'm somewhat new to all of this, and in the last couple of months have learned an INSANE amount about the android OS and how to make it "mine". I would have never been able to do so without the much appreciated help of all the knowledgeable people here on XDA. Yes, I agree, there are a crazy amount of duplicate posts, and pricks, and mindless idiots who for some reason have no issue posting a bash on a hard working dev for no apparent reason (f#& k those morons). Here is my question. What do you think of someone like me, who asks questions when he is stuck, and probably will continue to do so whenever he is hopelessly stuck, but always shows appreciation for valuable help received? There seem to be plenty of people here who enjoy helping noobs like me. I've helped a few, and it felt pretty good.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
Let's get this thread going by listing donations we've made and to which developers. No need to post amounts as no matter how large or small your donation is, I'm sure the awesome devs will still appreciate it. The OP will be updated to list member names please be honest, we don't want a thread with fake donations. The devs for this phone deserve better than that! Thanks community.
Ah the vanity....
Well intended, I know, but...
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
I think many would like to keep this private and see this as bragging. To me, it becomes about ego and false pride if you have to tell others about your charity.
But to each his own I guess.
I've given support to many in many devs in many different device forums, over the years because I appreciate the skill, time and work they put into it. Not large sums by any means but at least something when I can/I]. But I believe most devs do it for the fun of learning and tinkering. And then just getting some well deserved thanks is a huge thing (or is/was in my case) I know the donations are certainly appreciated and help give some motivation and cover expenses but some people just can't give all the time.
That's just my two cents - from an older guy who's been a tinkering with systems since when we actually had to write code on a punch card machine.
dang
my bad than people, it just seems to me that the majority of our devs are leaving so I thought this might help a few stay, or at least feel appreciated even though they are leaving. Lots of immaturity on these forums made a few leave, plus the s3...
I donated but next time I will think it twice. (I have my reasons)
Omar04 said:
I donated but next time I will think it twice. (I have my reasons)
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Why do you regret donating? Did something bad happen?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
wp7chris said:
my bad than people, it just seems to me that the majority of our devs are leaving so I thought this might help a few stay, or at least feel appreciated even though they are leaving. Lots of immaturity on these forums made a few leave, plus the s3...
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Click to collapse
If a dev is in it for the Donations, Then why would you want there work any way. You do not get the best work from people that do it for money. Oh and just to let you know they are not getting very much and that is not the reason we dev. We dev because it is fun.
Though I've seen a lot of people post their confirmation of donation in an open thread, I choose to donate privately when I am able to give at all. Though I'm not able to give as much as I would like for the amazing work we are given, I hope my fawning adoration makes up for it.
Stupid thanks limit
Word to the wise. Never donate to any "developer" asking for donations before any rom/kernel is released. Ive kept my eye on the whole swamp goblin donation scam. That seems to happen alot around different sites. I would think a user who pulls a scam like that would be banned? Its gotta be against xda rules?
Edit: Just checked Swamp Goblins Profile, He hasnt posted anything anywhere sense June 21, 2012.
Sent From A Rotary Phone
wp7chris said:
Why do you regret donating? Did something bad happen?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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The Dev performed the disappearing act...
Swamp Goblin doesn't believe he actually asked for donations, I think it's a perception issue.
I understand Devs have real lives and don't get paid for what they do (aside from occasional donations) therefore they are beholden to no one for ETAs, however when you request help to get a specific phone and promise a product for it then you do have an obligation to at least stay present in the situation. That doesn't mean you have to have it complete but you do need to be active in letting people know what's going on.
Also I agree with a post made in another thread regarding this, if you know you are too busy to put full effort towards a project on which you asked for a donated phone, then you shouldn't have ever started the process until such time when you were unencumbered by so much other stuff. I have to say that people were incredibly tolerant with his lack of output for quite some time and should be acknowledged for that, it has only been recently that people have grown wary of his actual intentions and started to question his motives directly.
My only real issue with the guy (other than his lengthy absences from posting any sort of information) is that he once commented that he was struggling with the sense build so he was going to spend time working on another ROM for another phone and then return to the E4GT. I don't recall exactly where it was and it may have even been edited by now but at the time I felt something was off.
Initially many of us were excited at the prospect of sense and may have allowed that excitement to color our normal judgement, I was in on the initial push to help him find a phone but I was looking at ebay and places where he might pick one up with his own money. Nevertheless, bygones I suppose.
Now, with all that said, I would hope these few instances of possible scams don't discourage people from donating. My only advice would be to pay attention to the Developer's work, reputation, support for existing products and interaction here on the forums. When we donate we do so in good faith and I'm happy to say that with the vast majority of the Devs here, we are well paid in return.
Sorry guys, but this thread is not a good idea at all. Just got off the phone with Cleo (yea, I'm that old) and she says she sees alot of name calling, pointing fingers, and bickering in this threads future. So I have to go with what she says.
---Jay--- From the Nexus
when the rule on XDA is:
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, and HTC is no member, why to hold for only one member the right to post ROM's based on HTC work (RUU, OTA, etc)???
And, when a new RUU of OTA is used for developing a ROM, why have the right to don't share with other developers the source and keep only for himself whatever his name is???
Acceptance of such policy will not help HTC community at all, as already proven and give mods just headache.:crying:
P.S. This question is also for mods, the simply answer is to ...don't answer of close thread of delete it but there are coming many annoying new conflicting rules witch make XDA a private club in stead of Share and Care community!
Thanks Laurentius26, I have change the title of this thread.
P.P.S. Rule : Sources need to be posted for all kernels!!! but why not for ROM's also???
P.P.P.S thanks Laurentius26 thread title changed again!
Not a stupid but a good question.
It's because those people can't cook, they need to stay ahead a few steps so they have time to
process the hard work of those other developers in there roms (the people who do share there personal development).
It's pathetic what these cookers do to my opinion, but XDA can't force those people to share.
If you ask those cookers to share, they always have excuses like 'I need to protect my sources' blablabla....
Laurentius26 said:
Not a stupid but a good question.
It's because those people can't cook, they need to stay ahead a few steps so they have time to
process the hard work of those other developers in there roms (the people who do share there personal development).
It's pathetic what these cookers do to my opinion, but XDA can't force those people to share.
If you ask those cookers to share, they always have excuses like 'I need to protect my sources' blablabla....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(One of the reasons why I go with CM as the only custom rom . Btw this is an old case. And its not just about ROM Cookers but also Kernel "Somethingers" source, patch, mod gatherers ? I do not know how to call them.
Lately there are kernels cooked up with ppl gathering other ppl sources(even through other devices the dev never own and never will) without acknowledgement to the real dev. These ppl having the title "recognized developer" with over 10k thanks feel safe doing so as no one dares to oppose them.
And Laurentius, whats worst, the major community of XDA will back them up in hope for a praise from them or acknowledgement, or a new rom kernel.
Or there is another phenomenon happening, when asking for a fix, feature, just suggesting a functionality. You get an answer "if you dont like it, do not use it" before it was "Ah good idea, I might try it out" or at least "I have no time for this, sorry, but maybe someone else can look into it"
So the real problem is not the Cooker, Gatherer , but the sheepish community not seeing whats happening. That he can exploit something is just his own cleverness.
Trust me, it happens in every forum, even my old one
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
I want to step back for a second and remember if we judge each individual with the same set of rules.
And let's not forget that someone else had raised this problem some time ago and now supports the OP.
I think my information is right, please correct me if not.
I totally agree, I can understand when some people say I need to protect my sources such as Football and Xmoo, who do a great deal for this community, but still cannot share everything as they do have sources that could be jepordised by releasing things.
But I do agree that ROM Cookers are getting pissy and perhaps lazy or bored with the community and are now doing it for that "Donate" purpose.
Also, whats doing my head in, and what you may not have seen or agree with but people putting "Use Search" in EVERY THREAD that is being made is really doing my head in. If they keep doing that, when people do search they will only find threads with answers saying "Use the Search"
Q
Wilks3y said:
I totally agree, I can understand when some people say I need to protect my sources such as Football and Xmoo, who do a great deal for this community, but still cannot share everything as they do have sources that could be jepordised by releasing things.
But I do agree that ROM Cookers are getting pissy and perhaps lazy or bored with the community and are now doing it for that "Donate" purpose.
Also, whats doing my head in, and what you may not have seen or agree with but people putting "Use Search" in EVERY THREAD that is being made is really doing my head in. If they keep doing that, when people do search they will only find threads with answers saying "Use the Search"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The selfishness is coming because of fame purposes which names I don't want to mention. But honestly they are annoying, and before I flash certain dev's ROMs even if I get certain leaks I rather live without the leaks and have no source of information instead off all this silly *****ing between two high school girls.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
bippolinno said:
when the rule on XDA is:
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, and HTC is no member, why to hold for only one member the right to post ROM's based on HTC work (RUU, OTA, etc)???
And, when a new RUU of OTA is used for developing a ROM, why have the right to don't share with other developers the source and keep only for himself whatever his name is???
Acceptance of such policy will not help HTC community at all, as already proven and give mods just headache.:crying:
P.S. This question is also for mods, the simply answer is to ...don't answer of close thread of delete it but there are coming many annoying new conflicting rules witch make XDA a private club in stead of Share and Care community!
Thanks Laurentius26, I have change the title of this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue here is the latest JB Sense OTA. This was meant for internal testing purposes for HTC Elevate members and we all signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement before we were accepted onto the programme. Now, someone (and I don't know who) still felt the need to leak this file, even after signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT stating they wouldn't so you can ***** all you want but, to be honest, the RUUs shouldn't be leaking if they've come from a confidential source...
EddyOS said:
The issue here is the latest JB Sense OTA. This was meant for internal testing purposes for HTC Elevate members and we all signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement before we were accepted onto the programme. Now, someone (and I don't know who) still felt the need to leak this file, even after signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT stating they wouldn't so you can ***** all you want but, to be honest, the RUUs shouldn't be leaking if they've come from a confidential source...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eddy your comment doesn't bring anything to the issue at hand. Please read it again. I wouldn't say he is *****ing.
That it shouldn't leak in the first place is not the issue this is about.
Even with what you say it still means, someone took someone else work and is currently "enriching" himself. Breaking laws in process is just an added bonus. And I guess in this case the mods should close those threads with the leaks. Shouldn't they?
Its about, I will share it, but first download "my" work in 2 days you can play with it too.
So there is no such thing as "BUT" or exceptions. No 2 days of not sharing source if you put a rom out based on. In which case these threads have to be stopped immediately after someone refuses to share it. Or heck even before if it breaks some legal documents.
How come you aren't pursuing this with mods to close those threads down?
confidencial source
EddyOS said:
The issue here is the latest JB Sense OTA. This was meant for internal testing purposes for HTC Elevate members and we all signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement before we were accepted onto the programme. Now, someone (and I don't know who) still felt the need to leak this file, even after signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT stating they wouldn't so you can ***** all you want but, to be honest, the RUUs shouldn't be leaking if they've come from a confidential source...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK that I understand but when using the source for your own ROM only, means no leak from confidential source???
And as I said why source for kernels and not for ROM's???
The current issue is not related to the Elevate leak.
bippolinno said:
when the rule on XDA is:
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, and HTC is no member, why to hold for only one member the right to post ROM's based on HTC work (RUU, OTA, etc)???
And, when a new RUU of OTA is used for developing a ROM, why have the right to don't share with other developers the source and keep only for himself whatever his name is???
Acceptance of such policy will not help HTC community at all, as already proven and give mods just headache.:crying:
P.S. This question is also for mods, the simply answer is to ...don't answer of close thread of delete it but there are coming many annoying new conflicting rules witch make XDA a private club in stead of Share and Care community!
Thanks Laurentius26, I have change the title of this thread.
P.P.S. Rule : Sources need to be posted for all kernels!!! but why not for ROM's also???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't like how things are being handled you can always look on your own for sources and share them as you please (or as you can). Or maybe ask HTC for it.
The cook got hold something, let him use it as he pleases. He should have to do anything just because somebody else is *****ing about it.
If the way he handle things is not good enough for you, just ignore him.
Also, android's kernels are linux's so they have to be open source
Not the same with roms, since htc got closed source stuff inside
fredfb said:
If you don't like how things are being handled you can always look on your own for sources and share them as you please (or as you can). Or maybe ask HTC for it.
The cook got hold something, let him use it as he pleases. He should have to do anything just because somebody else is *****ing about it.
If the way he handle things is not good enough for you, just ignore him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A little off topic but I want to mention this one here, cooker/ROM creator baadnews, he was blaming HTC for slow updates a few weeks ago, he was telling why he is going to get s3.. its such a shame that people do not respect the work HTC puts behind sense interface. People like baadnews modify a few things, get reputation on XDA, get some donations and then start blaming htc? The company because of whom you are recognised as a developer in this forum? This is very very unfortunate... at least not expected from a developer like him... anyways...
Sent from my HTC One X
kryptoner said:
A little off topic but I want to mention this one here, cooker/ROM creator baadnews, he was blaming HTC for slow updates a few weeks ago, he was telling why he is going to get s3.. its such a shame that people do not respect the work HTC puts behind sense interface. People like baadnews modify a few things, get reputation on XDA, get some donations and then start blaming htc? The company because of whom you are recognised as a developer in this forum? This is very very unfortunate... at least not expected from a developer like him... anyways...
Sent from my HTC One X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea i agree with you, people should be complaining less =P
uqadwe said:
The current issue is not related to the Elevate leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might not be, I was just using it as an example
fredfb said:
If you don't like how things are being handled you can always look on your own for sources and share them as you please (or as you can). Or maybe ask HTC for it.
The cook got hold something, let him use it as he pleases. He should have to do anything just because somebody else is *****ing about it.
If the way he handle things is not good enough for you, just ignore him.
Also, android's kernels are linux's so they have to be open source
Not the same with roms, since htc got closed source stuff inside
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U could be right when not on XDA forums but here happens to be a place to share and care an not for private ROM's.
And FYI I have always supported developers cooking ROM's from scratch with respect for other developers work, I am totally against kang-ers, but this thread is for giving all developers same chance and to make XDA community better!
kryptoner said:
A little off topic but I want to mention this one here, cooker/ROM creator baadnews, he was blaming HTC for slow updates a few weeks ago, he was telling why he is going to get s3.. its such a shame that people do not respect the work HTC puts behind sense interface. People like baadnews modify a few things, get reputation on XDA, get some donations and then start blaming htc? The company because of whom you are recognised as a developer in this forum? This is very very unfortunate... at least not expected from a developer like him... anyways...
Sent from my HTC One X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rude to just single out certain people, baad has provided us with lots of good things so don't go have a go at him. If I'm thinking correctly he brought us the first jb sense rom and guide how to flash it.
My personal views is that everyone should share whatever they have/create.
This way people can see how and what is done. The only reason I see for some users not sharing, is like the other user posted, they don't want something they "created" in another ROM as they want all the "attention" to themselves, or they are scared that their ROM will become less popular, which I don't see as a problem, if someone prefers another ROM fine, let them use it.
If everybody was open about everything and shared, the rom/kernel development would be of twice the level it is at currently, it would benefit everyone, roms/kernels would have twice the amount of features.
But we still have those individuals who want to be ahead of everyone else and look "the best".
Just my two cents.
I really think this thread should be closed and deleted. It's only full of rant.
And it looks like we aren't even sticking to the subject and we are discussing other situations/developers.
Nevertheless, we are all very ungratefull people. I am really looking forword to see your work, RUU's, leak's etc.
mwilky said:
It's rude to just single out certain people, baad has provided us with lots of good things so don't go have a go at him. If I'm thinking correctly he brought us the first jb sense rom and guide how to flash it.
My personal views is that everyone should share whatever they have/create.
This way people can see how and what is done. The only reason I see for some users not sharing, is like the other user posted, they don't want something they "created" in another ROM as they want all the "attention" to themselves, or they are scared that their ROM will become less popular, which I don't see as a problem, if someone prefers another ROM fine, let them use it.
If everybody was open about everything and shared, the rom/kernel development would be of twice the level it is at currently, it would benefit everyone, roms/kernels would have twice the amount of features.
But we still have those individuals who want to be ahead of everyone else and look "the best".
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not rude, its a fact. I told what he did, there may be others like him too... I saw him, I pointed out the mistake, nothing against him... main point was to tell people to stop complaining, respect what HTC have given us, one x is a masterpiece
Sent from my HTC One X
PAGOT said:
Eddy your comment doesn't bring anything to the issue at hand. Please read it again. I wouldn't say he is *****ing.
That it shouldn't leak in the first place is not the issue this is about.
Even with what you say it still means, someone took someone else work and is currently "enriching" himself. Breaking laws in process is just an added bonus. And I guess in this case the mods should close those threads with the leaks. Shouldn't they?
Its about, I will share it, but first download "my" work in 2 days you can play with it too.
So there is no such thing as "BUT" or exceptions. No 2 days of not sharing source if you put a rom out based on. In which case these threads have to be stopped immediately after someone refuses to share it. Or heck even before if it breaks some legal documents.
How come you aren't pursuing this with mods to close those threads down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. It's not up to me to get threads closed, I was just stating that that specific OTA should never have seen the light of day
2. The OP isn't exactly clear
If you're on about people holding files until they have their ROM out first then I agree that it's a bit wrong but, at the end of the day, it's there choice