Related
Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series. The interface of the new mobile operating system has been changed though, so the user interface for these applications will have to be changed as well.
"So there is no reason why programs written for Windows Mobile 6 cannot run on the new version of the OS", said Maarten Sonneveld of Microsoft Netherlands to Tweakers.net. "The interface is complete different though, so the applications will have to be changed somewhat before being ready for Windows Phone 7 Series".
It is still unclear how developers can port their user interfaces to the new version of Windows Mobile. Microsoft will only disclose how applications can be developed and distributed at their developer event Mix2010.
Microsoft announced it’s new OS on Monday afternoon at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. The OS is primarily aimed at synchronisation and integration with Microsft-services like Windows Live, Bing, Zune and Xbox Live. Aside from those Windows Phone 7 Series can also synchronise with Google-accounts and facebook.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source
So in summary, while none of the current applications will run on it, the underlying non-UI APIs will be compatible. So if understand correctly, porting would just a case of redeveloping the UI then recompiling, rather than starting completely from scratch. This acts to filter out apps with no more developer support, and promote a consistent UI.
Doesn't sound too bad to me.
That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...
elyl said:
That might explain why TomTom was seen on that screenshot of WP7 running on the HD2 (although, it could be a fake!). TomTom takes control of the screen, so uses no WM interface elements. So, it might be able to run full-screen apps/games without changes.
But, who knows...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just thinking the same except if you use the included .net controls, there's no reason that the OS couldn't just reskin them automatically to be at least somewhat more in line with the WP7 styling.
This would be excellent if it's true - and I can't see why it wouldn't be. The UI may be new but why throw away a perfectly good underlying core.
What would also be ideal is if the "multi-tasking" involved an app being set to pause in the background by default, but with a "keep me running" API call available for apps that needed it. I'm sure most apps hog resourses not because they need to but because the developer hasn't really thought about how the rest of the device performs when his app has been left running.
Makes sense, WindowsCE core is still the same
Zaim2 said:
Applications that were made for Windows Mobile 6 are compatible with Windows Phone 7 Series
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely wrong statement due to incorrect translation. Original: "De interface van Windows Phone 7 Series is totaal anders, waardoor er in elk geval iets aan de applicaties moet gebeuren voordat ze geschikt zijn voor Windows Phone 7 Series"
Even google translates it correctly:
"The interface of Windows 7 Phone Series is different, which in any case something should happen to the applications before they are suitable for Windows 7 Phone Series".
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010 that proves that none of the existing apps would be compatible with WinPhone7. And the only programming suite that is available to "generic" application-writers is Silverlight+XNA. Native apps are prohibited. Only OEMs and MO are allowed to create them (and even they have a set of limitations).
We would not have even source code compatibility - as all our C++ apps have to be converted to .NET.
mamaich said:
We have some "ms confidential" documentation dated January 2010...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the heck? And you say that only now? What else is in there? Any word about how background tasks are handled? Please give us some more information, or maybe, can you upload that documentation?
freyberry said:
maybe, can you upload that documentation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there's certainly a way to remove that information. But anyway, what about background tasks? Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?
mamaich said:
Obviously I cannot. As it would reveal the person who provided it.
Just to prove that such info really exists - see attached screenshots.
I really hope that the community would force MS to change such a dumb idea to limit independent software vendors to create only managed apps. Prohibiting C++ as a developing language, and "hiding" Windows API from programmer would force lots of developers to abandon this platform. The main reason of success of old WinMobile OSes was the ability to recompile "desktop" apps to WinMobile with just a minor set of changes (ANSI->Unicode + some interface changes).
P.S. I don't read PMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I can't believe noone has picked up on this
freyberry said:
Are third party applications allowed to run in the background?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background. I never programmed Silverlight and XNA and can't tell how multitatsking is made in them.
WinPhone 7 == Zune Phone. Both are based on CE kernel, and they should have lots of common in implementation of multitasking, clipboard, etc.
OS itself supports multitasking, see attach. But "Windows Phone OS 7.0 Application Platform" that we'll be forced to use to create apps may force our application to be paused in background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?
I’m not sure this is a big deal. I can see them saying a lot of native C++ apps may have compatibility issues. I could go either way on it with the limited amount of information I have on this. I’ll have a better opinion at and after MIX
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation. Personally, I hope you get into trouble for breaking your contract - they trust you and you're posting it? Yuck.
To be fair, though, every app we’ve written has been managed, and Microsoft hasn't t said P/Invoking is verboten, so what would be the problem?
There’s probably exceptions for games and the like, and the documents you've scanned even say a waiver is available to use the Native APIs. So I don’t know what you're complaining about…
Microsoft's dev teams have been listening to developers - why not get them to chime in and also give them a chance to hear you. Posting confidential Microsoft documents, assuming those are real, is not the way to get them to listen
Best,
-Auri
freyberry said:
The question is, can we write applications that are not automatically suspended when sent to the background? What are the policies on this?
It says multiple processes can run at the same time, but it does not say whether they get suspended automatically.
Is there any info on this? Maybe in the "Scheduling" section?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I like Android's approach to this, where Services can run in the background, but UI apps are allowed to be "put to sleep" while other apps run. But then again, we may see a lot of that come into play come MIX and "Answer Time"
Best,
-Auri
Well, I am now both excited and nervous -I think I will just cool my jets until MIX10 and just enjoy the eye candy for now. At worst - if the interface is nice, but the core is crap I am sure some of the boys here at xda will make us an inteface port for 6.5.x that acts and looks like the new hotness with the old compatibility. - lets see MIX
AuriRahimzadeh said:
Note that this could be old documentation, and it’s pretty annoying you're leaking confidential documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).
mamaich said:
Docs are dated 2010.
I'm not leaking the documentation. I'm sharing the information that anyway would be opened in some days, maybe weeks.
And screens are posted here just as a confirmation of my words. You may think that these pics come from my mind and are made with photoshop - it is your opinion.
I really think that WinPhone 7 would be a failure similar to desktop Vista. Of cause some people would like it, but most would stay on WM 6.x and wait for the next version.
Regarding P/Invoke. As far as I've seen, "unsafe" operations are prohibited in XNA and Silverlight. Otherwise we would be able to call coredll funcs and run native apps (and do everything else that is allowed in our chamber).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mamaich any though of a WP7 ce6.0 bsp for all the current cortex A8 devices running on a ce5.2 bsp, will the new kernel support them natively or will extensive bsp/bootloader hacking be required?
P/invoke surely is a limitation of .NET CF, rather than Silverlight/XNA libraries?
I think it would be a bit stupid to remove P/Invoking, because it's just not realistic to rely on .NETCF alone which has soooo much stuff stripped out to minimize size.
Will we be seeing a whole new .NETCF so soon after 3.5? I highly doubt it...Unless MS have been working overtime the past year
Shame, time to stop mobile development altogether if this is true. When we developers are considered as dumb earning pipes for companies who in their arrogant big ways think they have all the wisdom, and app developers only make annoying software that makes their precious leaky OS'es crash, it's time to move on. i would have been talking about IPhone, Android etc, but sadly we must add Microsoft to the list also.
Then there's the $1195,- and airplane tickets we have to pay to get to the Mix2010 in oder to maybe maybe get to be a "partner" with access to limited native API's (probably only reserved for the big companies) and don't even bother talking about giving away 30% of our earnings to a company that last year made how many billions of profits was it ?
Time to start an XDA OS based on REAL Linux maybe ? NVidia have a nice dev-board available for $400,- with Tegra on it. That's what I call developer friendly.
Cheers !
Regardless of how this will play out, I'm pretty sure of two things:
1. Closing down the OS may be beneficial for the majority of users by bringing stability, ease of use, UI consistency, etc. Even though I don't like it.
2. Because the OS itself is multitasking, any and all restrictions may be hacked around, and a "jailbreak" will be possible.
Depending on how this whole thing will be implemented, jailbreaking and using "illegal" apps may be a major PITA (think iPhone 3GS/tethered jailbreak) or as easy as a few registry tweaks/installing additional certs/whatever. If Apple didn't chase JB with every update it would be a rather good platform for both mainstream "ordinary" users and those who want rather unusual things from their phones.
We'll have to wait and see how it evolves really to make a final judgment.
wm7 = no native API call, stop running of background program and many other controls
let say good bye appl like WKTASK, CPUMonitorMini and many others
we have to wait for official comments next month. however why switch to Android? The native API of WM 6.5.x will not expire on our devices. With it we can do whatever we want.
...
I can't see me now buying a wm7 device in the future and I defenitly switch to android if wm isn't supporting multitasking anymore.
The fact alone that wm7 won't be backward compatible let's me thing about switching.
Thats all really sad because my omnia 2 is actually my first smartphone and I'm very pleased with it, basically because it uses a desktop like os.
drandazzo said:
will the current WM6/6.5 applications work on WM7.. eg. TomTom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. No piece of WM6 software will work on WP7. Some pieces may be easier for the developers to convert to WP7 than others, but all will require code-level conversion and recompilation of some sort.
Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
We need a clean break and that means no backwards compatibility. I want all my WP7 apps to have the jazzy new UI, full touch control and full integration with the hubs.
I don't mind paying the devs some more cash for a WP7 version of their apps, and I'm sure they won't mind taking that money off me!
Jim Coleman said:
Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
We need a clean break and that means no backwards compatibility. I want all my WP7 apps to have the jazzy new UI, full touch control and full integration with the hubs.
I don't mind paying the devs some more cash for a WP7 version of their apps, and I'm sure they won't mind taking that money off me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah when wp7 comes out thats when ill start buying my apps
Jim Coleman said:
Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The majority of the apps I use right now have already a kool looking ui (a lot of freeware is skinable anyway) and are fingerfriendly. And this includes stuff that is no longer in development and won't get updated.
If a developer refuses to update its app than there is a opportunity for someone else the be successful with a better product.
So why can't ms just let the market decide who got the best ui or functionality?
And for hubs, I don't really care for the new ui and would continue to use mobile shell (if still possible).
Shasarak said:
No. No piece of WM6 software will work on WP7. Some pieces may be easier for the developers to convert to WP7 than others, but all will require code-level conversion and recompilation of some sort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont see why tomtom or things like igo wouldnt work.
Microsoft said that backward compatiblilty will be difficult because of making it fit in with the OS, but if its full screen it doesnt need to fit in with any part of the os.
TheGoD said:
I ... would continue to use mobile shell (if still possible).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it won't be possible.
loomx said:
I dont see why tomtom or things like igo wouldnt work.
Microsoft said that backward compatiblilty will be difficult because of making it fit in with the OS, but if its full screen it doesnt need to fit in with any part of the os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah but you're missing the point. Tomtom, if written correctly within the new Silverlight framework doodad, will be largely subsumed into the Hubs interface - it'll provide new menu options in People, for instance, to navigate to their home or work address. In Calendar it'll do the same for the location of an event. Etc. Perhaps it'll calculate the route in background and then add it to a route list somewhere else on the phone, who knows. But it'll only go full screen with the 3D view etc when you're actually navigating. The rest of the UI will be done via the hubs.
Jim Coleman said:
Ah but you're missing the point. Tomtom, if written correctly within the new Silverlight framework doodad, will be largely subsumed into the Hubs interface - it'll provide new menu options in People, for instance, to navigate to their home or work address. In Calendar it'll do the same for the location of an event. Etc. Perhaps it'll calculate the route in background and then add it to a route list somewhere else on the phone, who knows. But it'll only go full screen with the 3D view etc when you're actually navigating. The rest of the UI will be done via the hubs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jim doesn't that sound ****ing awesome!?
in my opinion
winmo will be the best or the last
they have only one chance to make it the best mobile os or it will failed completly and all of us will move to android\iphone os
matckal said:
winmo will be the best or the last
they have only one chance to make it the best mobile os or it will failed completly and all of us will move to android\iphone os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on what WP7 really will be in the end, I'll switch to it, or just keep my old one. No intentions to switch to anything else, so please don't make such weird assumptions! WM 6.5.x will still be supported for a while by MS, and will be even longer on this board, so I see no reason to jump at the next opportunity because it's now suddenly hip or what?
Im done with Wm for Now...
Im done had all can take my HD2 is up for sale just picked up my Nexus one and its overclocked to 1.3ghz So fast microsoft im done....
Android is the new WinMo.
Except crappier. The slowdowns on the Qualcomm 72** series on the Android is more profound than on Win Mo. Thats how it felt to me.
I've messed around with android and it just doesn't seem that appealing to me honestly. Even though they may be locking down the WP7 UI. I love the integration it's going to have with Xbox Live and Zune. Not to mention the menu systems look very slick to me. I'll be sticking with Microsoft and I guess we will just have to wait for a crack to install our own apps if that's how it's going to go down.
after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.
RAMMANN said:
after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to say the same thing.
Android might have to get a complete faceleft and lose A LOT of functionality.
**** apple...
RAMMANN said:
after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, the future of Android has never been clear really. Not because the OS is bad or anything, but simply because Google doesn't really need it. That is, it's nice to have but it's not a life or death situation for them in this business. It's one of examples of their "let's throw all kinds of cool **** around and see later where it sticks" strategy. They pursue things that go easily and just as well abandon things that aren't going smooth - they just don't know where the money will come from, and don't mind that. Heck they didn't even know how to make money from their search business until they stole the context ad idea after unsuccessful attempts to buy it. But make no mistake - they are in business for the money. It doesn't mean they'll necessarily dump it, but it is an unclear and intransparent game.
So if I were an OEM I'd think a dozen times before really betting on Android, with or without the lawsuit. It's fine to use the opportunities it provides in the short run, but long term commitments? Nah.
"For us, the cost of going from good to great is a clean break from the past. To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series."
http://blogs.msdn.com/ckindel/archi...e-new-windows-phone-developer-experience.aspx
He also specifically mentions developers in it for learning and fun. I have to think they'll embrace free apps and not charge a dev $99 to submit an app if it's going to be free.
Another softie's blog post on the topic... http://www.artificialignorance.net/...ne-7-series-developers-developers-developers/
Yupe, and all WM5.x, WM6.x applications will NOT run on WP7:
To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series.
Well, this is just a NEW mobile OS, it is not an upgrade / update of current WM, this kinda expected.
From the article:
ckindle article said:
We took the feedback we gathered from developers, looked at the full potential of Windows Phone 7 Series and landed on 3 basic goals for the platform we’re delivering;
1. Enable end users to be able to personalize their phone experience through a large library of innovative, compelling, games and applications.
2. Enable developers to profit.
3. Advance the “3 screen plus cloud” vision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
I hope a "launcher" like still possible? Microsoft mentioned that we can put app as a tile in the start screen. I am wondering if that app would be some kind of app launcher ... icons grid
ckindle article said:
When we talk with developers we hear them talk about three different “currencies”: making money, learning, and recognition. Some developers are in it for the money. They are either literally being paid to write code or they are writing code with the hope it will generate coin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could mean professional mobile developer who earn and make money for living developing mobile applications.
Give them free tools! free submission charge! That would certainly be more attractive.
ckindle article said:
Other developers tell us they are interested in advancing their knowledge – love of the game. They love learning about computers, programming, games, social connections, etc… So they build software to learn. They profit by being smarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this mean "hobbyist" aka XDA dev?
ckindle article said:
Other developers are clearly motivated by pride. Maybe there’s a bit of money and learning involved, but to these developers being noticed or recognized as doing wickedly epic sh*t is top of the list for how they measure profit.
We think all three “currencies” are valid and important and we are explicitly trying to build the platform and developer experience to support “profit” in each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or this?
From what I'm reading MS is actually listening to all of us and I think that is a damn good thing.
gogol said:
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?
RAMMANN said:
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's much more than an app.
@gogol Tiles can also be shortcuts. But I doubt that one tile can link to multiple apps.
seed_al said:
It's much more than an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what Morbid Shell is. But by definition it's an app. You download it from Marketplace or somewhere and install the cab. Sense is not a cab but part of the ROM and you can say part of the OS. That's the difference as I see it.
Catalyst
WP7 is the catalyst that is getting me back into school to learn code. I have a degree in electrical engineering, but with the possibilities unfolding in the mobile OS world today, I want to be apart of that. The Star Trek dream has begun.
Don't expect any Haret.exe this time around.
This has turned into the same crap Apple did, a retarded OS for retards that have no clue in anything, but like the "oh so cool" flashy menus.
I think in regards to haret we are forgetting one very important thing as we compare this to iphone
jailbreak does broaden the possibilities on the iphone so I'm not so sure this is the total end of haret
what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.
hyellow said:
what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that the start screen on WP7 is definitely not a plug-in of any kind. It's hardcoded to the system and as far as we have been told no one is allowed to write different UI's on top of it. Not to say that it won't be possible. It just won't be carriers and OEM's doing it.
So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.
~Johnny said:
So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't believe so. These are still apps. MS is creating a single baseline that all developers will be able to use so the platform is uniform and easier to develop for. This will create a stable Windows Mobile experience and hopefully make it more enjoyable for noobs and vets alike without providers and manufacturers messing it up. Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.
Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that simple.
Of course
seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain.
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.
And I have no problem at all with Opera Mini, except Flash ... but for that, I use SkyFire or YouTube app.
Opera Mini would be my top app to port to WP7 ... because I doubt the new IE is good to use.
vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and Opera have their own engine. They still have not even released their Android port. Opera Mobile on WP7 is not going to happen anytime soon.
Same for lots of other things that heavily rely on native code or are hard to port over.
Sorry, guys. It's just not that simple.
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.
Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it
Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.
1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps
For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.
I like these arguments...
Keep them coming
- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.
sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)
It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]
Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.
Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.
^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.
And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.
I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).
Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.
Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.
I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App
Not sure of the validity here, but WMPowerUser and WPCentral are both reporting that a user has a new update of the OS. One with the search icon for apps...
http://wmpoweruser.com/build-7753-of-windows-phone-7-being-pushed-out-to-some-people/
Would be glad to hear if there is a built-in task switcher.
To me its crazy that there are people out there with leaked Mango builds and we don't know a single feature that they haven't announced. That's why I don't buy it at all.
PG2G said:
To me its crazy that there are people out there with leaked Mango builds and we don't know a single feature that they haven't announced. That's why I don't buy it at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a pretty retarded reason why not to buy. And to be honest, this is probably not Mango. Not even close. It's probably a progression of what we currently have, IF it's real, and just includes a tiny icon. We've seen Microsoft have different branches and those branches work on different features... I honestly don't think Mango is going to be the only update this year, and feel as though there will be 2-3 more minor ones along the way...
this is fake look at the color of the icons. And its blurry, you can see its photoshop.
PG2G said:
To me its crazy that there are people out there with leaked Mango builds and we don't know a single feature that they haven't announced. That's why I don't buy it at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why there should be feature they havn't announced？
People a buying products with announced feature not implemented, why not buy a device with announced feature working.
tfouto said:
this is fake look at the color of the icons. And its blurry, you can see its photoshop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty sure that's not the users picture, wasn't that the picture of the April Fools Mango?
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
FiyaFleye said:
Pretty sure that's not the users picture, wasn't that the picture of the April Fools Mango?
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nop...............
amtrakcn said:
Why there should be feature they havn't announced？
People a buying products with announced feature not implemented, why not buy a device with announced feature working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because its a fact that the announced features aren't all that are coming in Mango? If someone has a build of Mango, they damn sure better be digging through it looking for something.
I sure hope that search icon is for a global search instead of an application search. I really don't know why MS doesn't make the app list like the contacts list, or songs list, with click-able letters. That would seem like the most logical and theme-oriented solution to the absurd list of all apps that we have now
jmerrey said:
I sure hope that search icon is for a global search instead of an application search. I really don't know why MS doesn't make the app list like the contacts list, or songs list, with click-able letters. That would seem like the most logical and theme-oriented solution to the absurd list of all apps that we have now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on that. Same goes for the pictures hub, which needs some way to sort it anyways.
FiyaFleye said:
Pretty sure that's not the users picture, wasn't that the picture of the April Fools Mango?
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if this one is true but this one is different from the Apr 1st pic...
amtrakcn said:
Not sure if this one is true but this one is different from the Apr 1st pic...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
of course its fake... why are only pictures of the icon, why are not photos or videos with the new feature? its a joke and someone is laughing really bad.
UPDATE: Windows Phone Italy has discovered that this user's device was updated to build 7.0.7753.0, which is definitely a higher number than the normal 7390 build that we equate with the NoDo March update.
so it's not fake at all
jmerrey said:
I really don't know why MS doesn't make the app list like the contacts list, or songs list, with click-able letters. That would seem like the most logical and theme-oriented solution to the absurd list of all apps that we have now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Let me say that again. THIS.
I realize that early on Microsoft was going for a "new" paradigm where apps were a secondary benefit of using the phone, but that has obviously changed. With over 13000 apps already in the marketplace, and many more coming, a better app launching mechanism NEEDS to be implemented, and soon.
At the very least, there should be tappable letters to jump to a section, PLUS an app-specific search (to completely follow the model of the People hub). But even better would be to also provide the option to display apps in a 3-column format (with small labels beneath the icons). Even better still would be to implement a third page of the start screen that would allow me to pin favorite apps in a 3- or 4-column format (no live tile support needed, just app icons).
Oh, and the same changes should be made to the Games hub.
So, more like Android or IOS then?
dkp1977 said:
+1 on that. Same goes for the pictures hub, which needs some way to sort it anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you can jump through the pictures by date if you sort by date
Why not integrate search for app in the BING search button?
Wyn6 said:
So, more like Android or IOS then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess if that's the way you want to look at it, you can. It just seems kind of silly to me.
The fact that a feature or behavior might exist on Android or iOS doesn't make that feature better or worse. But if there is a feature that is commonly used, and it can be easily adapted to the metro interface, it makes no sense to me to go out of your way to avoid it, simply so you can call yourself "different". That would be like designing a car where you have to use your nose to activate the turn signals, just so you could claim that you are different from all of the other manufacturers.
I don't think that's what his implication is. Rather I believe he's saying something along the lines of, "but this is Windows Phone though and it has certain design and decisions the developers, at the time, thought were distinguishing and possibly efficient."
My words of course assume he's speaking to your wish for a 3 or 4 column grid format