Develop Bugs

with all the control of wm7, Is it time to switch to a more open platform android?

wm7 = no native API call, stop running of background program and many other controls
let say good bye appl like WKTASK, CPUMonitorMini and many others

we have to wait for official comments next month. however why switch to Android? The native API of WM 6.5.x will not expire on our devices. With it we can do whatever we want.

...

I can't see me now buying a wm7 device in the future and I defenitly switch to android if wm isn't supporting multitasking anymore.
The fact alone that wm7 won't be backward compatible let's me thing about switching.
Thats all really sad because my omnia 2 is actually my first smartphone and I'm very pleased with it, basically because it uses a desktop like os.

drandazzo said:
will the current WM6/6.5 applications work on WM7.. eg. TomTom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. No piece of WM6 software will work on WP7. Some pieces may be easier for the developers to convert to WP7 than others, but all will require code-level conversion and recompilation of some sort.

Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
We need a clean break and that means no backwards compatibility. I want all my WP7 apps to have the jazzy new UI, full touch control and full integration with the hubs.
I don't mind paying the devs some more cash for a WP7 version of their apps, and I'm sure they won't mind taking that money off me!

Jim Coleman said:
Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
We need a clean break and that means no backwards compatibility. I want all my WP7 apps to have the jazzy new UI, full touch control and full integration with the hubs.
I don't mind paying the devs some more cash for a WP7 version of their apps, and I'm sure they won't mind taking that money off me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah when wp7 comes out thats when ill start buying my apps

Jim Coleman said:
Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The majority of the apps I use right now have already a kool looking ui (a lot of freeware is skinable anyway) and are fingerfriendly. And this includes stuff that is no longer in development and won't get updated.
If a developer refuses to update its app than there is a opportunity for someone else the be successful with a better product.
So why can't ms just let the market decide who got the best ui or functionality?
And for hubs, I don't really care for the new ui and would continue to use mobile shell (if still possible).

Shasarak said:
No. No piece of WM6 software will work on WP7. Some pieces may be easier for the developers to convert to WP7 than others, but all will require code-level conversion and recompilation of some sort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont see why tomtom or things like igo wouldnt work.
Microsoft said that backward compatiblilty will be difficult because of making it fit in with the OS, but if its full screen it doesnt need to fit in with any part of the os.

TheGoD said:
I ... would continue to use mobile shell (if still possible).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it won't be possible.

loomx said:
I dont see why tomtom or things like igo wouldnt work.
Microsoft said that backward compatiblilty will be difficult because of making it fit in with the OS, but if its full screen it doesnt need to fit in with any part of the os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah but you're missing the point. Tomtom, if written correctly within the new Silverlight framework doodad, will be largely subsumed into the Hubs interface - it'll provide new menu options in People, for instance, to navigate to their home or work address. In Calendar it'll do the same for the location of an event. Etc. Perhaps it'll calculate the route in background and then add it to a route list somewhere else on the phone, who knows. But it'll only go full screen with the 3D view etc when you're actually navigating. The rest of the UI will be done via the hubs.

Jim Coleman said:
Ah but you're missing the point. Tomtom, if written correctly within the new Silverlight framework doodad, will be largely subsumed into the Hubs interface - it'll provide new menu options in People, for instance, to navigate to their home or work address. In Calendar it'll do the same for the location of an event. Etc. Perhaps it'll calculate the route in background and then add it to a route list somewhere else on the phone, who knows. But it'll only go full screen with the 3D view etc when you're actually navigating. The rest of the UI will be done via the hubs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jim doesn't that sound ****ing awesome!?

in my opinion
winmo will be the best or the last
they have only one chance to make it the best mobile os or it will failed completly and all of us will move to android\iphone os

matckal said:
winmo will be the best or the last
they have only one chance to make it the best mobile os or it will failed completly and all of us will move to android\iphone os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on what WP7 really will be in the end, I'll switch to it, or just keep my old one. No intentions to switch to anything else, so please don't make such weird assumptions! WM 6.5.x will still be supported for a while by MS, and will be even longer on this board, so I see no reason to jump at the next opportunity because it's now suddenly hip or what?

Im done with Wm for Now...
Im done had all can take my HD2 is up for sale just picked up my Nexus one and its overclocked to 1.3ghz So fast microsoft im done....

Android is the new WinMo.
Except crappier. The slowdowns on the Qualcomm 72** series on the Android is more profound than on Win Mo. Thats how it felt to me.

I've messed around with android and it just doesn't seem that appealing to me honestly. Even though they may be locking down the WP7 UI. I love the integration it's going to have with Xbox Live and Zune. Not to mention the menu systems look very slick to me. I'll be sticking with Microsoft and I guess we will just have to wait for a crack to install our own apps if that's how it's going to go down.

after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.

RAMMANN said:
after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to say the same thing.
Android might have to get a complete faceleft and lose A LOT of functionality.
**** apple...

RAMMANN said:
after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, the future of Android has never been clear really. Not because the OS is bad or anything, but simply because Google doesn't really need it. That is, it's nice to have but it's not a life or death situation for them in this business. It's one of examples of their "let's throw all kinds of cool **** around and see later where it sticks" strategy. They pursue things that go easily and just as well abandon things that aren't going smooth - they just don't know where the money will come from, and don't mind that. Heck they didn't even know how to make money from their search business until they stole the context ad idea after unsuccessful attempts to buy it. But make no mistake - they are in business for the money. It doesn't mean they'll necessarily dump it, but it is an unclear and intransparent game.
So if I were an OEM I'd think a dozen times before really betting on Android, with or without the lawsuit. It's fine to use the opportunities it provides in the short run, but long term commitments? Nah.

Advantages over iPhone

Seeing as WP7 will be almost as crippled as the iPhone, let's see ways in which it will be better, besides replaceable battery and memory card(and it's not certain every OEM will follow up on those either). So far it has two weaknesses that only the iPhone has: Lack of multitasking and apps must go through the marketplace.
In order to pick up iPhone users it will have to offer some advantage that the average iPhoner will notice.
Some advantages:
Information at a glance a la today screen with the hubs. iPhone has nothing like this.
It will (supposedly) have some degree of multitasking.
Two more hardware buttons.

Its funny since I've had my HD2 I've not really used multitasking and when I had my iPhone only not being able to use Spotify in the background bugged me so maybe certainly for me multitasking isn't a be all and end all.

Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.

Jim Coleman said:
In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.
Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.

weesals said:
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?

weesals said:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?

why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!

The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.

Jim Coleman said:
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.
We are going to need a task manager though...
As for comparing to the iPhone:
-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.
-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)
-Better hardware standards
-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)

RAMMANN said:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because that's where the money is.

Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.

The most important advantages are gone.
They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.
There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.
(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)

Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)
Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming
File downloads (possibly)
Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed
XBOX LIVE! Enough said.
Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)
1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)
WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)
Bing search (That's just my preference.)
Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)
There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.
Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.

giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone! I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.

Jim Coleman said:
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Shasarak said:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.
Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People

burnblue said:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.

The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.

^^^ +1
Jim Coleman said:
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.

Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.

no extra browsers?

looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599

No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...

A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.

seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...

C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.

I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)

C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.

Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.

C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.

C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make some musical ones, to live up to your name!

Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.

No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!

Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.

C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform

havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm

It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.

vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money

Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.

Why take WP7 over android?

Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?

Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.

1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps

For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.

I like these arguments...
Keep them coming

- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.

sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}

Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)

It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]

Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.

Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.

^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.

And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.

I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).

Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?

vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.

Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.

I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App

Desperately Needed

WP7 desperately need a 3g to wifi tethering app like myfi. I used to have an iphone but switched WP7 and now I need a 'myfi' like app badly.
Can someone some building this app ASAP.

at present it's not possible to even build one as there aren't any APIs for it. I'm sure this has been asked quite a few times on this forum already... please search... rather than just continually asking what people deem as a common requirement. also search the pinned threads as they're a good place to start for missing functionality...

There are APIs. Samsung phones can tether so yh APIs are there. WP7 is just CE with some changes/additions. Microsoft just isn't allowing access to the APIs...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.

The Gate Keeper said:
I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my point. The APIs exist, as does the base Windows CE system.
We just don't have the development tools nor do we have access to that level of the system to be able to write those applications ourselves.
We're limited to sandboxed Silverlight-based applications, but Microsoft and OEMs can use Native Code and APIs we don't have access to.
They exist, we just don't have access to them. Apple does the same thing with iOS.
Thanks for agreeing with me, though
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which also means WP7 supports tethering. The functionality just isn't exposed to users in the general user interface, that is why you have to dig for it. The same thing is true for Sideloading XAPs, among other things.
It's there. The OS is totally capable of it. WP7 did, in fact, inherit a ton of functionality from Windows Mobile. The difference is that the new UI doesn't expose it to the user, and applications (and the system) are managed in a totally different way.
There's a huge difference between "does not exist" and "exists, but functionality is not exposed in the UI."
Windows on a PC can access drives, etc. by device name, but that is not exposed in the UI - for example. The same is true for many features in WP7 that are there by virtue of it being based on CE and tied (although Microsoft would want you to think differently) to Windows Mobile. They just chose not to expose this functionality.
Not saying it's totalyl based on WM, since that's obviously untrue. If that was the case stuff like full Exchange support, Video support for MMS, etc. would be working.
But the fact that this stuff is there and they're dragging their feet to allow users to use it is what's keeping lots of users off of WP7 at the moment. It's taking them too long to make changes that seem too simple... Maybe for the sake of security, I don't know. They haven't really been transparent with early adopters, IMO.
EDIT: Also, you can call Native Code from managed languages (C#, VB.NET, Java, etc.), so I'm pretty sure they are writing their apps in C# and only calling native code/libraries when they need to. Writing it in straight C/C++ is [potentially] more dangerous than using a Managed Language with Interop. I can't see Microsoft going for that.