Develop Bugs

Windows Phone 7 will have multitasking.

I'm opening a new thread so people don't have to dig thru other threads to find this.
Leaked documents show that Windows Phone 7 will indeed have multitasking after approval by Microsoft. Appearently you will need to ask Microsoft for special permission, and as such you will need to prove your need for multitasking. I'm sure it will be limited to apps such as Pandora that show a specific need for running in the background.
http://www.wmexperts.com/leak-windows-phone-7-documents-developers

Thanks for posting this. It looks like I need to start learning silverlight which I expected would be the case.
The multitasking is annoying. I dont want to have to ask for permission to enable this. Do they plan on controlling this through the app store? If its just some hidden API's they would get leaked in minutes and everyone could use them.

Weird interpretation
From the leaked documents provided, I cannot figure out how did they come to the conclusion that developers would need to ask for permission to do multitasking. It seems that the authors of the article are not really technical and had things mixed up. OEMs and MOs will have to request access to some native APIs if Managed API and provided limited native API set is not enough for their needs, which is something totally different from processes and threads. Processes and threads, or in layman terms multitasking is business as usual. I don't see any restrictions there.

Of course the OS can multitask. That's never been a question.
The question is whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background.
There is no word on whether this is the case, and in fact, every official statement from Microsoft currently hints to this not being the case. It seems like they're going the Apple way of not allowing third party applications to run in the background.

Did anybody read the document? There's no connection between multitasking and approval. It's not going to be done with hidden APIs that can get leaked. It's not completely clear but here's what it seems to say to me:
Anyone can write C#/Silverlight apps that use the .NET Compact Framework and install them. Hopefully this will let you do most things you want to do. The big problem would be if .NET CF 4 is missing any of the "normal" useful stuff. Personally, if I can interact with calls, texts, contacts, location services (e.g. GPS) and the internet then I'm happy.
If you want to write unmanaged (i.e. C++) code or call some extra managed APIs you'll need to get the code signed. This will probably go through a similar process to Apple's app store. This should only be required for low level stuff - drivers, etc. The wording of the doc suggests that it would only be phone carriers that are likely to be using this.
Multitasking isn't mentioned, so it's only guesswork between now and MIX10.

freyberry said:
Of course the OS can multitask. That's never been a question.
The question is whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background.
There is no word on whether this is the case, and in fact, every official statement from Microsoft currently hints to this not being the case. It seems like they're going the Apple way of not allowing third party applications to run in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it may work more like the way Android does than the way iPhone does. Android multitasks properly, but suspends non-foreground processes. Looking at the built in calendar demo, it pops in and pops out to the same place, so it's not being restarted, merely resumed.

l3v5y said:
I think it may work more like the way Android does than the way iPhone does. Android multitasks properly, but suspends non-foreground processes. Looking at the built in calendar demo, it pops in and pops out to the same place, so it's not being restarted, merely resumed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not how multitasking on Android works. Android applications save their state when they are sent to the background, but they continue to run. They are not suspended, unless the system runs out of RAM.
If the system runs out of RAM, then the "oldest" process that's running in the background gets killed. Since it saved its state when it was sent to the background, you can reopen it and continue where you left off.
That's exactly how multitasking *should* work.

freyberry said:
That's exactly how multitasking *should* work.
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Click to collapse
Really? Isn't it the same as stated by MS that apps will be "paused" in background? Also, how is it going to help my satnav app be at the right position when I minimize the dialer in a call?

vangrieg said:
Really? Isn't it the same as stated by MS that apps will be "paused" in background? Also, how is it going to help my satnav app be at the right position when I minimize the dialer in a call?
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Click to collapse
No, it is not at all the same. Read my post again.

guys take a look at this.. this guy is playing music while navigating trough the phone..
http://www.wmexperts.com/wme-mwc-video-hands-no-2-windows-phone-7-series?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wmexperts+(WMExperts)&utm_content=Twitter

may i ask for this thread to list facts only?
i would love this thread not to be dragged into the debate of hints and speculations. I would say, as long as we don't have something solid let's keep the speculations at the other thread.
i have seen some videos where by mistake shows multi tasking cappabilites, and i believe as long as the cappability is there (even if locked down) we can find a way around it. but we are still in the dark, maybe Microsoft will simply say that hey developers, yes we have full multitasking but not for .net cf apps, only unmanaged code can? maybe! just to ensure that not anyone can write an app to stay in the background.
Mostly the usage of multitasking is not that high, i don't keep much apps in memory. infact alot of the users of Windows Mobile (5, 6.x.x) do set their phones to close the app on X click. and most of us (including me) didn't want to run multiple apps in the background, actually that's why HTC built the Taskmanager into their ROMS. even SonyEricsson.
Of course there are exceptions for that, i would love for my Navigation app to stay in the background while my friend is playing on the phone.
the main point is we don't have any clue yet, if we get any info that is official/confirmed leak then we can get either UPSET or releafed
take it easy mates.

young blade said:
guys take a look at this.. this guy is playing music while navigating trough the phone.
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Click to collapse
Music (Zune) is not a 3rd party app.

pilgrim011 said:
Music (Zune) is not a 3rd party app.
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Click to collapse
okay so its about 3th party apps in running in the background.
I'm sure it will be possible.. whats the point of not doing it and having 500+ ram in the device..
thats like tuning a car up to 999 of horse power and restricting it down to 300.

young blade said:
okay so its about 3th party apps in running in the background.
I'm sure it will be possible.. whats the point of not doing it and having 500+ ram in the device..
thats like tuning a car up to 999 of horse power and restricting it down to 300.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't be so sure. Unfortunately, Microsoft is heading Apple's path, the dark side...

Honestly if they make is so you have to actually program it to run the background instead of natively making everything work in the background, I beleive that would be a good thing. I have to pull the task manager up to close every app after I open it because I don't really need it in the background. For example when I use a calculator to compute something why does it need to stay up after I'm done with the calculation?
On the otherhand, If they are making it so you have to get direct permission from Microsoft and not just from the OS to run in the background that probably means they want some more money or something outta the deal and I don't think thats the best way to go. Phone these days usually have a good amount of ram to be able to run task in the background and they shouldn't underpower the device if it can handle it.

I don't think that iPhone is the way to the dark side.... they are able to make "dumb users" (I don't think you are dumb, it's a way to put it into), a way to make what they want with their device. As a higher user, you know how to manage properly a system unmanaged because you know to play properly with the system, resources, and more over, but some people just has problems knowing how to open a file...
Really, the iPhone way is bring the IT technologies to people that not usually knows or likes the IT, and use them because they must, or they like the services but not the tech itself.
I belive that maybe WP7S has become so iPhone, and we may want to drop it, but really, the human history has ever been the same. It's not about how good or how many features has a device/technology/thing, it's about how many people use it in daily life. Try to think about a space travel agency, the people will believe in space travels once people become able to go to the moon by themselves, not because the NASA did it. And no matter that NASA was able to take a "car" for the astronauts and an space agency only can bring you an your package, it just doesn't matter.

Yes, it will indeed multitask for the native apps at least. In the presentation, Joe goes to a maps app, then goes right back to the calendar app where he was. Looks like the iPhone push stuff.

Kloc said:
Honestly if they make is so you have to actually program it to run the background instead of natively making everything work in the background, I beleive that would be a good thing.
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Click to collapse
That would be the best thing they could do. That's how it *should* work.

yes, not all apps require to be able to run in the background. things like calculator for example, i hate killing it using task manager.
things like sending sms or email, when I hit the send button and close the gui, the msg should be sent to the background service and really close remove the gui interface from the memory. i hate killing tmail.exe.
and there are a lot more examples why current winmo multitasking is not right. tweaks required just to be able to completely close app like htc album, opera, etc.
i am glad that finally microsoft will address this seriously. i am not surprise that ability to run in the background will be controlled by them. it is still better being controlled rather than not allowed at all (like Apple iPhone?).
freyberry said:
That would be the best thing they could do. That's how it *should* work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Careful, careful....!!
You don't know HOW they're going to adress the issue. If they completely forbid multitasking, like Apple, then things will get a LOT WORSE than they are now.
I agree that not every application has to run in the background. But some MUST run in the background and it would be a huge failure if they didn't allow third party developers to use multitasking at all, like Apple.
Multitasking for each and every application, like on WM6.5, is still a lot better than no multitasking at all!!

WP7s support multitasking

as my assumption ,OS freeze the application but still allow application to update the hub
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/17/windows-phone-7-series-multitasking-the-real-deal/
We've definitely learned a ton about Windows Phone 7 Series here at MIX, but getting the full picture on multitasking has been difficult, since the OS isn't ready, no one has final hardware, and the emulator seems to behave differently than actual devices and Microsoft's descriptions. So let's set the record straight on multitasking: it's not going to happen, at least not in the traditional way. Not only have we directly confirmed this with Microsoft executives several times, but the developer sessions here are totally clear on the matter -- you don't tell 1000+ devs that they should expect their apps to be killed whenever the user switches away from them if you don't mean it. Now, that's not to say that the OS can't do multitasking: first-party apps like the Zune player and IE can run in the background, and third-party apps are actually left running in a suspended state (Microsoft calls it "dehydrated") as long as the system doesn't need any additional resources. If the user cycles back to an app, it's resumed ("rehydrated") and life continues merrily along, but if the user opens other apps and the system needs additional resources, the app is killed without any indication or remorse.
If that sounds familiar, it's because it's basically a single-tasking riff on Android and Windows Mobile 6, both of which also purport to intelligently manage multiple running applications like this, and both of which usually find themselves greatly improved with manual task managers. We'll have to see if Windows Phone 7 Series can do a better job once it ships -- we have a feeling it will -- and later down the line we'll see if Microsoft decides to extend multitasking to third-party apps. But for now, just know that you're not going to be running Pandora in the background while you do other tasks on a 7 Series device -- it is a question we have specifically asked, and the answer, unfortunately, is no.

so it doesn't support multitasking... at least not in a tradition sense.
but i guess this isn't too bad.. i mean, as long as i can start writing an email and then go online and then come right back to my cursor... or play a game, hit pause, send a text, and then come right back to pause screen.
hopefully i can connect to a site, switch to text... while i'm writing a text, wait for the webpage to load, and come back.
anyway, i'm pretty sure if MS can't compete w/ the ipod, MS can't compete w/ the iphone.

They have actually did a demo on loading websites in the background while doing other stuff so that will be possible.

why is it so hard to update my Yomomedia feeds while sending a text message?
It's plain dumb. RAM is made for a reason.

Now, that's not to say that the OS can't do multitasking: first-party apps like the Zune player and IE can run in the background...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats nice for the Zune-Player and the IE, but what if I want to use a different player or browser?
rorytmeadows said:
why is it so hard to update my Yomomedia feeds while sending a text message?
It's plain dumb. RAM is made for a reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WORD! Its really funny thoug how all those people here defending the decision not to include MT by asking what application really needs it. My opinion, every app that loads longer than 1 second, because that is how fast I activate a minimized application right now!
And on a sidenote, notebooks had limited amounts of ram and processing power combined with terrible running times for decades, and no fool ever came up with the idea of disabling MT to solve those problems...

Both the stock iPhone and WPS7 supports multitasking only for their own applications, so you will be able to play music in the background, browse the net with either the stock browser or third party browser. In the case of stock iPhone, a third party application called Nike can also run in the background but that's a rare exception Apple has made.
To be able to run third party applications in the background, the jailbreaking community gives us tweaks such as Backgrounder, Kirikae, Circuituous, Multiflow.
I think something similar might happen to WPS7. Some technical gurus either from the XDA community or other places might do something similar and jailbreak and introduce background processing capability for third party applications.

rorytmeadows said:
why is it so hard to update my Yomomedia feeds while sending a text message?
It's plain dumb. RAM is made for a reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why?
OS still allows application keep running,OS just stops the UI rendering ,stops the playing music

eaglesteve said:
Both the stock iPhone and WPS7 supports multitasking only for their own applications, so you will be able to play music in the background, browse the net with either the stock browser or third party browser. In the case of stock iPhone, a third party application called Nike can also run in the background but that's a rare exception Apple has made.
To be able to run third party applications in the background, the jailbreaking community gives us tweaks such as Backgrounder, Kirikae, Circuituous, Multiflow.
I think something similar might happen to WPS7. Some technical gurus either from the XDA community or other places might do something similar and jailbreak and introduce background processing capability for third party applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is patently absurd that Microsoft, of all companies, would enforce such a limitation. What about applications that you want to respond to the Accelerometer? Light sensor? Any other system events built into the OS/tool-kit? They have written all sorts of cool stuff like the Reactive Extensions (which isn't just for mobile) - how is this supposed to work if it doesn't support multitasking? How is my app supposed to respond to environmental events if it isn't freaking running?!

bjhill2112 said:
How is my app supposed to respond to environmental events if it isn't freaking running?!
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Click to collapse
Well, to be fair, MS has a way for it in WM, it's called persistent notifications, which works in many (not all) cases. It doesn't seem to be included in WP7 though, I don't see any traces of SNAPI.

vangrieg said:
Well, to be fair, MS has a way for it in WM, it's called persistent notifications, which works in many (not all) cases. It doesn't seem to be included in WP7 though, I don't see any traces of SNAPI.
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Click to collapse
I've been poking around in the tool kit and I can't find anything either.

MS says new multi-task in wm 7 is more like as iphone's
some apps will suspenses, then system will shut them automatically to clean up system resources

bestfan said:
MS says new multi-task in wm 7 is more like as iphone's
some apps will suspenses, then system will shut them automatically to clean up system resources
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No ,it is different, on wp7s, while apps suspense to background ,apps still allow update the hubs and tiles and multi apps can be suspended to background

Why take WP7 over android?

Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?

Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
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Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.

1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps

For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.

I like these arguments...
Keep them coming

- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.

sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}

Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)

It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]

Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.

Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
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And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.

^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.

And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
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Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.

I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).

Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
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Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?

vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
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Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
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Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.

Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
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Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.

I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App

Windows Phone 7 and multitasking

This is a clarification thread, and I will not, unlike my other attempt, be fooled into a pissing contest. There just seems to be a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to "multitasking" on Windows Phone 7, and I will try to clarify a little bit.
Problem: You're in a program, start another one, and then start the original again - and your data is gone, or if it's a game you have to start from the beginning.
Answer: This has nothing to do with multitasking, but something called tombstoning. The developers has to take into account what to do when a program is exited by starting another program, and most seem to just ignore it. That is when you lose your data or have to start the game from scratch
Problem: "Windows Phone doesn't multitask", "When will we get multitasking" etc
Answer: Windows Phone can multitask just fine. So can the programs running on Windows Phone. What most people refer to when asking these questions is really either the question above, or if developers will be allowed to run programs in the background. Multitasking is being able to more than one thing at the time, and the most simple test to see if your phone supports it or not is to see if you can receive phone calls or listen to music while you're checking mail. So - your phone can both multitask and run applications in the background (which is called scheduling, actually, as multitasking doesn't necessarily mean running a program that isn't in the foreground - uploading a picture to your sky drive while letting you browse the other pictures is typical multitasking).
Problem: "When will MS let us run programs in the background?"
Answer: There are both pros and cons to letting developers do this. A lot of developers aren't that good when it comes to using resources sensibly while in the background, and a lot of programs simply doesn't *need* to run in the background. If you're writing notes and want them back when you return, that's tombstoning. Playing a game? Well, you certainly don't want it to actually run in the background as you'll be dead when you return. Still tombstoning. One of the few applications is if you're listening to music (videos don't cound, because it doesn't make sense playing the video when you cannot watch it) or download larger amounts of data. The problem is that, if it's not done correctly, this can negatively impact performance (do you really want your game to stutter or have to wait two minutes for mail to open??), it can drain your battery, and it can even help distribute viruses. If MS wants to open this to developers, they need to have special testing procedures before they allow it. Also, misbehaving background apps will give most people a negative image of MS, which is apparent in all the threads dissing MS for not allowing "multitasking" because developers don't save data when exiting the application.
So, here's a short run-down of terms that are interesting in today's computer landscape:
* Multitasking: Being able to do more than one job at a time. Multitasking really just divides the processor time (available time to use the processor) and gives slices to different jobs.
* Multithreading: Being able to divide tasks into their own threads, thus allowing the use of more cores/processors. A multitasking, single threaded OS can only use one processor (simplification of the truth - if you know why it's a simplification, you don't need the full story. If you don't, it will only confuse you), while a multitasking, multithreaded OS can use more. Most programs, even for regular computers don't use multithreading, as it's a pain in the O to handle, but operating systems do. That's why, on a PC, Counter Strike will only use one of the cores on your brand new gaming rig with 8 cores, but all the cores will be active.
* Background scheduling: How the OS can let applications run in the background, usually by giving it less processor time (most often just free cycles) and thus letting it complete a time consuming process without making the system too slow to use. A foreground application will usually get more processor time than if it was running in the background.
I hope this clears it up, and helps people to understand what the different terms are and when to use it.
To sum up:
* Multitasking is available. There's no question about it. Windows Phone multitasks applications, and applications can multitask internally.
* Background scheduling is available, but is not an open API for developers. This has both positive and negative implications, depending on application
* A lot of developers are pretty bad when it comes to tombstoning.

Great post. There is nothing to be added. Sadly most ppl won't read the whole think or simply continue complaining.
I'm happy with the OS as it is, because I don't want all those crappy apps to suck my battery and fool with my CPU cycles.
In future real sceduling may be a capability of apps which need spezial certification. But I'm strictly against open APIs for that!

It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.

the_Crispy said:
Great post. There is nothing to be added. Sadly most ppl won't read the whole think or simply continue complaining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
See the post below yours for confirmation that people won't read, but will gladly complain

I see what you mean and for the most part you got all the definitions correct, but you also have to see how WP7 handles apps and the pros and cons on the end-user.
WP7 actually just saves the state of the app when navigated away from, and does not actually enable you to RUN two apps at once so developers have to be really tricky with how they incorporate this into the OS. The pros are saving battery and not waste resources, the cons are that you cannot actually utilize the best parts of multi-tasking.
Do you want you game "running" in the background so you die? No, but the developer should know that and code the app appropriately. Do you want to be able to stream music in the background while checking emails or texting or tweeting? Of course. Not possible under the current version of WP7. How about playing a game/email/text while driving and having turn-by-turn navigation on? Nope. Developers might be lazy at times, but they're not usually idiots.
There's no question that the OS has the native ability to do so, no one ever argued that point. The beef is that MS has locked their OS down so they only allow Zune to do it. Well some of us don't like Zune or want to multi-task other apps too.
But MS wants to play it safe and see how multi-tasking is working out for Google and Apple before they actually allow it for any 3rd party apps, meanwhile the end-user suffers and the salesguy at the t-mobile store doesn't even show you an HD7 because you "can only do one thing at a time." MS needs to wake the hell up and allow 3rd party TRUE multi-tasking for 3rd party apps. It actually made some sense to not allow it for the initial release, it could have been a nightmare with an early OS and not that many apps anyways, developers had to get fancy and had to stay smart and honest, or their app would be killed with the quickness.
But it is time to free the OS to do some core things that it is really lacking:
1) True Multitasking
2) Copy and Paste
3) HTML5 and Flash support in IE
4) Third party web browsers
5) full direct camera access to apps
6) separate audio levels for media, ringtones, alarm (android really nailed this one)
of course other bugs and stuff, but these are the main issues for me. I don't blame MS for how they handled tombstoning and multi-tasking initially, but it's time (with efficiency) to catch up with the rest of the herd.

tiwas said:
and I will not, unlike my other attempt, be fooled into a pissing contest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pillsburydoughman said:
It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tiwas said:
Thanks
See the post below yours for confirmation that people won't read, but will gladly complain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to get into any ranting or raving or anything on this one, but please don't bash everyone who does not agree with you in this thread or claim they don't read.
The guy had a legitimate post about tombstoning an instant messenger and I have pointed out other times where MS drops the ball on this mulit-tasking issue.
Your OP is a good post and helps clear up some things, but you have to understand that there are real concerns with the OS not allowing 3rd party multi-tasking and just flaming anyone who does not think that this is the best way for the OS to operate.

It wasn't bashing. I was simply pointing out that he hadn't read the whole thing, as he, like you, didn't really understand the concept of multitasking.
Anyway, I'm not going to start arguing with you again.

pillsburydoughman said:
It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 definitely has the capbility of multi tasking, or you won't be playing music while using IE. MS limited the multi tasking for 3rd party apps.
Your old phone or android phone can do multitanking without any system limit. As I know it's free for Android application to create background services. However it causes significant lag and battery drain. My captivate lose 4% power per hour on standby and I cannot even locate which app is causing such battery drain.
MS learned from apple that it's more important to keep the device running smooth than to let apps mess the phone up.

Who cares what you call it. People want to have a messenger or non zune music player in the background while they do other things and be able to QUICKLY respond to it. BASICALLY most people want what apple calls multitasking/fast app switching. Only certain things allowed and a proper save state when when leaving the app. It works great on the iPhone and i dont care what people say its simple and effective.

can WP7 multitask?

tiwas said:
It wasn't bashing. I was simply pointing out that he hadn't read the whole thing, as he, like you, didn't really understand the concept of multitasking.
Anyway, I'm not going to start arguing with you again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well I think we both understand the concept of multi-tasking, just disagree with you on the wiseness of not allowing third party apps to be able to do so, someone disagreeing with you isn't the same thing as not understanding something; multi-tasking is actually a pretty easy concept to understand.
I don't want to argue with you again either, I just also don't want readers of this thread to be misinformed and to get all viewpoints regarding WP7's lack of multi-tasking support and then they can decide if they agree or not, but it doesn't mean that the subject is not understood.
I have no desire to start any beef on this thread, just keep in mind that when you start a thread you open a discussion open to disagreements, these don't mean that people don't read or don't understand necessarily. Don't be afraid to be wrong, it happens to everyone. We're all here to get the most out of our devices anyways.

So, you are shazaming a song on the radio, and get a phone call or a txt - will wp7 tombstone the live radio for you too?

Anthonok said:
Who cares what you call it. People want to have a messenger or non zune music player in the background while they do other things and be able to QUICKLY respond to it. BASICALLY most people want what apple calls multitasking/fast app switching. Only certain things allowed and a proper save state when when leaving the app. It works great on the iPhone and i dont care what people say its simple and effective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.

amtrakcn said:
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what so they will add this in the 9 generation?(if you count 6.1 and 6.5)
Wow

vetvito said:
what so they will add this in the 9 generation?(if you count 6.1 and 6.5)
Wow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's named WP7 but it's ACTUALLY WP1.
WM is designed to be a lite version of desktop windows with phone features
That's why it was powerful while hurting user experience

vetvito said:
can WP7 multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should read my full post. It's explained
I am absolutely sure big companies will be allowed to run in the background, and it's probably just a question about time before we get MSN Messenger running properly in the background.
There are other uses, like streaming music, but as for the suggestions of running GPS software with turn by turn instructions (you shouldn't play games or do anything with your phone while driving!) and having a game active in the background without letting your character die (cool! Let's spin our wheels! We're not going anywhere, but we sure are spending gas! ) are plain silly...
Ok, on my list of programs that will benefit from actually running in the background, I can only think of two now, but please help me put more on the list:
* Music streaming
* Messaging

vetvito said:
can WP7 multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing other than Zune right now
tiwas said:
but as for the suggestions of running GPS software with turn by turn instructions (you shouldn't play games or do anything with your phone while driving!) and having a game active in the background without letting your character die (cool! Let's spin our wheels! We're not going anywhere, but we sure are spending gas! ) are plain silly...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well GPS would nice since sometimes you're the passenger and you still want turn by turn while gaming or emailing, so it needs to be supported in the mango update too.

Hi fellow XDA lovers
I just want to remind you all that we don't want a flame war here so keep it on topic please.

amtrakcn said:
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it took them an extremely long time because apple is stubborn (or should i say Steve Jobs) and it is disappointing that Microsoft chose to pull an apple with WP7. But at least apple updated the iPhone....

lqaddict said:
So, you are shazaming a song on the radio, and get a phone call or a txt - will wp7 tombstone the live radio for you too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should probably be able to run in the background if you get a call. I can play games while on the phone, but it leaves a nasty orange block on the top of the screen to notify you that your on the phone. As far txt messaging go, yea that's a bummer. I just click the message when it comes up, respond, then click back to go to the game I was playing. Just hope that game saved your previous state.

Pros/Cons of WP7 ?

I recently jumped the ship from iOS to Android, and being dissapointed by the "Android-Experience" (Overall esthetics, User-friendliness, etc etc..), I was considering changing to WP7. Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Thanks in advance.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay

I dont want to spam, but i am a Android Xperia Neo (2.3) and a WP7 Mango (with the HTC Trophy user) and i recomend you to see this video I made up youtube.com/watch?v=NNo13-LUlHo (if it inst allowed than i will remove the link). Well i prefer WP7 because of its estability and interface and smoothness. Sorry for my bad english

Jay_uk1185 said:
For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will be on to a winner with WP7 to be honest. It certainly presents the information in a far better and more innovative way than any of the competition and certainly works far more reliably.
The only caveat is that up until you have Mango - the live tile updates are terribly unreliable. (These are the widget-type tiles on the start screen)
Jay

WP7 is pleasure to use but is at an earlier stage in its life than ios or android, it has the potential to be a leading smart phones but I'd wait a few weeks to see if mango manages to push us to the forefront ?

Yeah, I was gonna wait a month or two to see how Android fares with me, and then eventually jump ship ... again
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

yup can't go wrong with wp7 everything is much faster and cleaner while android and iOS are just offering specs and graphics, wp7 is offering real usability and features.

Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.

day2die said:
Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS's look is the first reason I'd move to wp. The integration astounded me, we're only seeing it appear in iOS 5 (I'm a beta tester), and as for Android ...
I'd heard of the hardware stability, that'd be a definite plus+. Can't wait to try it out !
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

I look at WP7 as having the best of both iOS and Android.
On one hand you have the Android approach of different handset makers and a choice in hardware. Like Apple, Microsoft is showing tight control over the OS. So between two WP7 handsets you aren't going to see a huge difference in terms of how the OS performs. The biggest problem I have had with Android in the past is how the user experience is vastly different between two phones, especially when hardware manufacturers start skinning the OS.
You honestly can't go wrong with WP7, especially with the Mango update around the corner.

omnomnomkimiiee said:
Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?

CSMR said:
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
User: both, private/business 30%/70%
Computer skills are rather mediocre in the ms/linux world, I'm more of an os x guy.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
EDIT: Just a little correction to the person who mentioned Chrome. WP7 does indeed have the "Chrome" element of the UI. The Status Bar at the top that auto hides is Chrome & so is the Menu Bar. It just auto hides & in some apps, isn't there at all (aka fullscreen mode).

drkfngthdragnlrd said:
Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u earned a thanks from me. I do believe that th apps will get better once the mango ones hit the marketplace. I rarely use them tho as like yourself almost everything I do can be done in the OS on its own

I am on mango, here is my list:
Pros:
Smoothness
The live tiles (I know it sounds like the windows phone catchphase but mango upped the info and style of them and made them a powerful tool)
Social network intergation (having the people and messaging hubs allow you to do 80% of the stuff that you do on it I.E. Facebook and having the cache locally instead of waiting for an app to pull it live from the site.
Search and bing vision, audio, local scout (having it all at your fingertip)
Tellme! The voice command is awesome and I sometimes use it to show off =)
Metro UI, simple and clean and easy to look at
IE it is the smoothest browser around, no checkering
Cons:
Customization
Playing app catchup (mango should fix it and see a lot of ports from iOS and android very soon)
Video scrubbing
No way to bring back toast notications
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.

hardcoreplur said:
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probably one of the best descriptions I've heard about WP7 & couldn't be more true. While WP7 is not perfect. It does indeed grow on your & 99% of what you need to to you can figure out how to do in some ingenious ways. It is a beautiful thought out OS.

omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GUI and the essential smart-phone stuff (email, calendar, contacts, social media integration) work really well. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Bad things you'll discovered compared to iOS is lack or apps, and lack of google maps and other google services. Remember WP7 uses Bing, which is very USA-centric, and Microsoft keep regions very cut off from each other. So if you do live in France as your avatar suggests, you may find several features (such as maps and local scout) don't work, and the French app store may be pretty sparse (and no you won't be allowed to access the UK or US one).

I 2nd that. WP7 as far as services go is a worse experience outside the US, & something you should look into before making a decision.

Many people complains about the need for Zune Sync instead USB Mass Storage. I am the opposite one - I like this better. Why?
You are sure, that the phone will play the music or movie (converting 1.5 hours long movie took 3 minutes on my PC).
Also, when you are watching movie on phone, then close it somewhere during the movie, sync the phone to PC and open the movie in PC (through Zune), it will continue where you left off - that is something that without Zune Sync can't be done.
I use Zune for listening to music anyway. Just drag & drop the music on icon of your phone and once you connect it, it synces all the changes and adds music and what not.
And major PRO for WP7 is the UI. Best UI around. UI designed for phone from beginning, that is not just rows and columns of icons.