Develop Bugs

Advantages over iPhone

Seeing as WP7 will be almost as crippled as the iPhone, let's see ways in which it will be better, besides replaceable battery and memory card(and it's not certain every OEM will follow up on those either). So far it has two weaknesses that only the iPhone has: Lack of multitasking and apps must go through the marketplace.
In order to pick up iPhone users it will have to offer some advantage that the average iPhoner will notice.
Some advantages:
Information at a glance a la today screen with the hubs. iPhone has nothing like this.
It will (supposedly) have some degree of multitasking.
Two more hardware buttons.

Its funny since I've had my HD2 I've not really used multitasking and when I had my iPhone only not being able to use Spotify in the background bugged me so maybe certainly for me multitasking isn't a be all and end all.

Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.

Jim Coleman said:
In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.
Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.

weesals said:
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?

weesals said:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?

why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!

The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.

Jim Coleman said:
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.
We are going to need a task manager though...
As for comparing to the iPhone:
-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.
-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)
-Better hardware standards
-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)

RAMMANN said:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because that's where the money is.

Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.

The most important advantages are gone.
They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.
There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.
(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)

Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)
Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming
File downloads (possibly)
Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed
XBOX LIVE! Enough said.
Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)
1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)
WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)
Bing search (That's just my preference.)
Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)
There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.
Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.

giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone! I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.

Jim Coleman said:
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Shasarak said:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.
Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People

burnblue said:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.

The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.

^^^ +1
Jim Coleman said:
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.

Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.

Previewing Android Apps before phone purchase

I'm hoping to take the plunge and buy an HTC Desire when they are available. To date I have used both WinMob and iPhone extensively.
One area of concern to me is the quality of the 3rd party apps available from the Android Market Place. I've searched at length for them and always come up short. Being used to the iPhone App Store, I am worried that the Android apps are not up to the same standard.
Can anyone point me to a resource which I can browse/search for Android apps, without first needing to own an actual phone in order to see??
As an example, the HTC Desire has an electronic compass built in. Now, with the iPhone, you get a built-in beautiful compass app with which to use the sensor. From what I can see, an app is not included with the Android phones, and my searches to date for an Android compass app have only come up with some frankly appalling ugly basic compass apps, and one which looks roughly photographic, but doesnt show any flair.
So, where is the good stuff, and can I browse it from my PC? I keep hearing of 20,000 apps, but my searches turn up lists of perhaps 10 (mostly poor) apps.

not sure if you could view all apps without actually having an android phone, but here is a very useful website about Android Market
http://androidfeeder.com/
Update: using this site you can search Android Apps/Games http://www.androlib.com/, this one too http://www.cyrket.com/m/android/
Update: and here is a list of ultimate free apps for android http://techpp.com/2009/11/10/ultimate-list-of-free-android-apps-part-1/

http://www.cyrket.com/search?q=compass&market=android
Compass Pro (Free) looks a lot like the iPhone version.

When you got the desire, you can try every app for 24hours and if you dont like the app, get your money back!

Thanks for all the suggestions. But I must say that the suggested sites are the ones I had already found, and to be frank, they are a cacophony of disjointed information, poor screen shots, and distraction.
I'm sure there are some software gems in there, but the sites seem to be determined to hide them.
The ultimate free apps pointer is the best list I have seen so far. Many of the sites dont even seem to bother offering a decent screen shot, if any at all.

The-Nazgul said:
When you got the desire, you can try every app for 24hours and if you dont like the app, get your money back!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I didn't know this! That's very handy
I was worried that I'd purchase an app to find it doesn't work or isn't what was expected.

Also, try this site:
www.appbrain.com
Just be aware that most of these sites just reflect the information from the Android Market (accessed by your phone) onto a web page. This is not new or different information than what you would see in the market from your device - just copied in a slightly different package on the web.
Once difference with App Brain is you can choose not to see some of the spam apps. Also, with App Brain you can select apps from the website that you want to install - then, later open the App Brain app on your device and sync the apps - which will install the apps you selected on the web to your device using the Android Market interface. Works pretty well.

Neat. I will check that out.
TVM

XDAgeek said:
I'm hoping to take the plunge and buy an HTC Desire when they are available. To date I have used both WinMob and iPhone extensively.
One area of concern to me is the quality of the 3rd party apps available from the Android Market Place. I've searched at length for them and always come up short. Being used to the iPhone App Store, I am worried that the Android apps are not up to the same standard.
Can anyone point me to a resource which I can browse/search for Android apps, without first needing to own an actual phone in order to see??
As an example, the HTC Desire has an electronic compass built in. Now, with the iPhone, you get a built-in beautiful compass app with which to use the sensor. From what I can see, an app is not included with the Android phones, and my searches to date for an Android compass app have only come up with some frankly appalling ugly basic compass apps, and one which looks roughly photographic, but doesnt show any flair.
So, where is the good stuff, and can I browse it from my PC? I keep hearing of 20,000 apps, but my searches turn up lists of perhaps 10 (mostly poor) apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being absolutely honest - the standard of some identical apps is MUCH higher on the iPhone. I was checking out a friend's iPhone last night, and the RAC Traffic app is so much nicer. A little (fruit-machine type) roller to select the geographic area you want, as opposed to a crappy flat pop-up Android menu, and when you toggle between the map view/traffic update view, the iPhone version has an animation like you're folding back a page, whereas Android's is just a standard instant screen change. Oh, and the Android one doesn't always work properly. It is obvious that a lot more effort went into the iPhone version... I am getting serious envy over that...
There are also apps from big players who just don't even bother with Android versions. I know we keep saying "That will change as Android gains market-share", but how long is it going to take? I don't want those apps in 2yrs time, I want them NOW!
Having said that, the iPhone is locked down, you can barely customise it, and you have to put up with Apple's sh**. Still. I wish I could have iPhone apps on Android, that would be the best of both worlds.

I myself have owned Iphone 3gs, Hd2 and Hero and now waiting for delivery of Desire. To be honest For apps there is no comparison between Iphone and Andriod apps, iphone wins every time.
If apps are the major issue for you then don't buy desire, as you will be slightly dissappointed in lack of quality apps in comparison to the Iphone. But what it lacks in apps it certainly makes up in every other way.
The interface is better, it offers more seamless integration of your contacts from all of your various lists and address books - be they Skype, Twitter, your phone book, Facebook - and knits them together for a more intelligent experience. Multi tasking, optical pad, internet browsing better experience etc the list goes on and on.
That is why I choose to go with Desire and got rid of my Iphone 3GS, let's hope I'm not dissappointed.

riz157 said:
I myself have owned Iphone 3gs, Hd2 and Hero and now waiting for delivery of Desire. To be honest For apps there is no comparison between Iphone and Andriod apps, iphone wins every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For now.. Recent research has shown that more than 50% of the iphone developers is planning to develop for android too, so with a bit of luck and some patience, the level of quality will be improving.

Why take WP7 over android?

Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?

Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.

1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps

For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.

I like these arguments...
Keep them coming

- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.

sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}

Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)

It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]

Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.

Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.

^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.

And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.

I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).

Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?

vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.

Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.

I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App

[Q] Windows Phone 7 vs. Android?

Hi!
I'm a fan of resistive touchscreens, therefore I currently to stay with WM (or I could switch to Symbian).
Would I be open to switching to a capacitive-based phone, I'd probably go for Android. Now WP7 is out and I'm curious, what does it actually offer over Android phones? A different user interface and support for M$ games (for that I have my PC), so why, in your opinion, should s user interested basically in a phone/organizer/messages/e-book reader switch to WP7 instead of another system?
I don't intend this as a clash topic like "which system is better", I'm just curious.
Thanks

If you use a lot of MS services and depend on Exchange then WP7 will be for you.

Personally I don't really like Android. It just feels overall unfinished (and often quite sluggish) and all held together with alot of different 3rd party apps, and the fact that 3rd party apps can replace the homescreen, SMS function etc.

Sir. Haxalot said:
Personally I don't really like Android. It just feels overall unfinished (and often quite sluggish) and all held together with alot of different 3rd party apps, and the fact that 3rd party apps can replace the homescreen, SMS function etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think WP7 is more of the future of the ppc. Information will presented in more of a real time and fluid manner while incorporating both work and personal agendas. Third party applications will be enhancements of course, but they won't necessary to hold an OS platform together as we see currently with WM, iOS and Android. The concept of having apps to simply have apps is kind of annoying to me. I want great applications not millions of applications.

Android wins hands down.
Apart from XBox gaming, WP7 offers absolutely nothing that Android can not do. And Android does everything better.
Android provides a much better user experience, because you can get things done much more quickly.
This is because there are no limitations that require complex workarounds and because you can customize Android much easier to get the information you want and do the things you want to do faster.
WP7 is limited and does not provide anything that Android hasn't done before.
Re vetvito: Android has better Exchange support than WP7!
Android's Exchange support is now 100%. WP7's Exchange support lacks lots of features, such as GAL.

crow26 said:
Android wins hands down.
Apart from XBox gaming, WP7 offers absolutely nothing that Android can not do. And Android does everything better.
Android provides a much better user experience, because you can get things done much more quickly.
This is because there are no limitations that require complex workarounds and because you can customize Android much easier to get the information you want and do the things you want to do faster.
WP7 is limited and does not provide anything that Android hasn't done before.
Re vetvito: Android has better Exchange support than WP7!
Android's Exchange support is now 100%. WP7's Exchange support lacks lots of features, such as GAL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can android pin anything to its start screen?? like fav songs, artist, albums, games, the list goes onnnn wp7 can pin pretty much anything and as far as "you can get things done much more quickly" i would think the home screen would be the simplest and fastest so not sure where you are getting you facts...

rruffman said:
can android pin anything to its start screen?? like fav songs, artist, albums, games, the list goes onnnn wp7 can pin pretty much anything and as far as "you can get things done much more quickly" i would think the home screen would be the simplest and fastest so not sure where you are getting you facts...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but I'm pretty sure there'll be an app for it if it's actually a feature anyone wants.
Personally, I don't see the usefulness of having individual songs pinned to the homescreen, but that doesn't mean anything. Android is very customizable and it doesn't matter at all what I'd want (or what Google would want for that matter) because someone can just make it happen.
Depending on the app you use to play music, you can pin a playlist to the home screen which I could see being useful (not for me, but for others).
Games you can definitely pin to the homescreen though.
This is basically the same as Windows 7 being able to pin apps to the Task Bar. This is something that is pretty useful for me (for the apps I use all the time), but most people I know absolutely hate it.
But, if it's something people want, an app can be made. Can an app make your phone multitask?

tjhart85 said:
No, but I'm pretty sure there'll be an app for it if it's actually a feature anyone wants.
Personally, I don't see the usefulness of having individual songs pinned to the homescreen, but that doesn't mean anything. Android is very customizable and it doesn't matter at all what I'd want (or what Google would want for that matter) because someone can just make it happen.
Depending on the app you use to play music, you can pin a playlist to the home screen which I could see being useful (not for me, but for others).
Games you can definitely pin to the homescreen though.
This is basically the same as Windows 7 being able to pin apps to the Task Bar. This is something that is pretty useful for me (for the apps I use all the time), but most people I know absolutely hate it.
But, if it's something people want, an app can be made. Can an app make your phone multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here we go with the multi task again... the fact is no need for app or someone to make one in wp7 you can pin "ANYTHING" to the start screen. next on to the so called "multi task" yes you can run some services in the background on android but apps are also killed in addroid as well only they have access to certain services to kepp things seem to be running..
WP7:
1. App is running in the forderground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. App is frozen in the Flash memory and only some threads are still running
4. App is not running
Andriod
1. App is running in the foreground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. Just a portion of an app is running in the background as a service, the main app is deflated and residing in memory, or has been killed, leaving only the service.
4. App is not running, but is still in Memory in a deflated state until RAM runs out.
5. App is killed and not residing in memory. It may leave call to the OS to revive it periodically when conditions are met.
and no an app cannot be made for wp7.. but when this is updated to allow 3rd party apps to access these services then what will you say??? you sure cant get an app to help the andriod slugish interface to work better or an app to correct the fragmentation in androids os.. keep trying though..

Biges said:
Hi!
I'm a fan of resistive touchscreens, therefore I currently to stay with WM (or I could switch to Symbian).
Would I be open to switching to a capacitive-based phone, I'd probably go for Android. Now WP7 is out and I'm curious, what does it actually offer over Android phones? A different user interface and support for M$ games (for that I have my PC), so why, in your opinion, should s user interested basically in a phone/organizer/messages/e-book reader switch to WP7 instead of another system?
I don't intend this as a clash topic like "which system is better", I'm just curious.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I share your sentiments. Resistive is much better...............
I also think constantly what is the way to go.
For me a massive turn on in WP7 is consistent, simple, modern UI experience
the whole OS seems great and modern, with no fragmentation or too much eyecandy.
BUT there are cruical lacks which makes - at launch - WP7 crippled.
Android in reverse is kind of complete with functionality.
I observe how Microsoft will react and what will plan.
Definitely - I can't live without beeing able to choose whatever attachement I want in email
for instance.
So for me obesrvation, and decision to be made once these WP7 devices will come to Poland.

I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.

chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice Read!!! you really tell it like it is. I personaly never owned an andriod but i have had friends and you are correct about the apps i tried to install wifi teather on my friends phone and ALL of the apps i could never set the encrypton and 2 out of 3 didnt even work!!! so i can understans where you are comming from..
I too stated for all the droid fanboys to post their comments in the android boards...

chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK - taking photo is faster with WP7. And what about copying music to your phone? Is Zune Syncing faster than drag-and-drop? And what if I want to copy something from a friend's computer? Installing Zune just to do that? It's the "Apple aproach" that's just a deal breaker for me. I never believed that MS will drop so low. Telling people what thay are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do (a change of the UI is absolutely forbidden by MS) is just the thing that turned me off the iPhone and made me stick with WM (android was in the very early stages back then). I can't understand why so many people here didn't like the iPhone and are now exited about the WP7?!? I did't miss application consistency with WM, why on earth will this be so important with WP? And you think that OS fragmentation is just an Android flaw? Well guess what - it's WP7 1.0 now. Do you honestly think that all the manufacturers will offer ROM upgrades when they are released from MS? Like the Touch HD ever got WM6.5 officialy?
And for the last part of your post - it's been 3 days since MS released the WP7 and already some people are trying to say what others should do or not... you catch up pretty quick.

tkolev said:
Do you honestly think that all the manufacturers will offer ROM upgrades when they are released from MS? Like the Touch HD ever got WM6.5 officialy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is the nice thing of wp7 , microsoft is dealing with the updates , you don't have to wait for the OEM'S to get your updates .

If you use a lot of MS services, especially some mail/file exchange service, like outlook,
wp7 should be nice to you.
but I am an android guy
------------------------
No, I am not a X Man, I am a XDA Man

ceesheim said:
that is the nice thing of wp7 , microsoft is dealing with the updates , you don't have to wait for the OEM'S to get your updates .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They could probably handle patches, but I seriously doubt that they will handle ROM upgrades. You will still be dependant on your OEM to make a ROM specific for your device. And knowing HTC's policy that's something not very likely to happen.

tkolev said:
They could probably handle patches, but I seriously doubt that they will handle ROM upgrades. You will still be dependant on your OEM to make a ROM specific for your device. And knowing HTC's policy that's something not very likely to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there isn't any nead to update the whole rom , you can update almosed everything in the rom.
I think it will be the same as wm6.5 , the option was there but never used .
Here is a link of how it works on wm6.*
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520009

chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
* Some more text*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the impression I've got from Android, and is the reason that I'll go to WP7 instead of an Android option.

Jailbroken WP7 would be the best!

Guys its just the ui that matters.. Android offers everything that wp7 is now beginning to offer. Only problem with android is the ui which is unable to display the information to the user the way wp7 does.. But I guess if wp7 has a better ui then android will put on a fight with gingerbread. Only problem with android is that all of us ain't using a nexus hence the experience will be different to all of us. And software updates in android are a joke when it comes to the consumer end... Still waiting for froyo.... May end up buying wp7 because of the experience
Just love that ui... Makes android look old and fragmented.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

ceesheim said:
I think there isn't any nead to update the whole rom , you can update almosed everything in the rom.
I think it will be the same as wm6.5 , the option was there but never used .
Here is a link of how it works on wm6.*
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520009
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still find it hard to believe that MS will update the hardware-related parts of the ROM. Now it's easy - there is one processor, one resolution, etc. but these are the minimum specs the phones must meet. I guess will have to wait a couple of years to see what's going to happen. My feeling is that the update system will never be as efficient as Apple's and will have all of it's drawbacks. In the end WP will be as fragmented as Android and as closed as iOS. I hope I'm wrong!

Mango is here... Where are the apps?

Remember when people were complaining about a lack of good apps and all they could hear was "There's no API for that, wait for Mango, bla bla bla...".
Developers have had the tools since when? May, June, July? Yet the only worthy app we've seen is WhatsApp. At a time when people are preordering the iPhone 4S like crazy, isn't it time WP crank it up a bit?
Why can't I have something as simple as Audible for instance (heck, there isn't even an Amazon app outside the US)? It's like the world stopped with Mango, I don't get it.
[Insert "you're to impatient", "buy an iPhone" comments here]

a good chat client. WhatsApp, IM+ DO NOT count as good chat clients. They are both broken, slow, buggy, laggy and half the time don't even work. If someone now says IM+ works then I'll ask them to use it on iOS or Android and see what 'works' REALLY means.

I must admit I was all excited about getting Mango and having Live tiles on the home screen.
Sadly there are hardly any good apps to use, And even fewer with live tiles.
{I would love Twitter to have a live tile}
The little things like no WiFi tethering and no decent Navigation app for WP7 is testing my patience as well. I am hoping Nokia will rectify these short comings as I really do love the windows software.
I just hope the hardware that this platform deserve is released soon.

TuneIn radio has been updated to Mango, and now supports background audio. That's the best update I've had - use that app all the time. Other than that a few of my map apps (Bingle Maps, GMaps) open quicker, but that's it really.
Yeh is a bit of a let down so far; still no augmented reality apps yet, or properly good WP7 exclusive games (could we have *one* FPS please?)

another complaining thread sighs....

sayonical said:
another complaining thread sighs....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well WP7 isn't a bed of roses as you might think it is. For those who paid through the roof have the right to complain if the platform doesn't meet their expectations.

agp64 said:
..... The little things like no WiFi tethering and no decent Navigation app for WP7 .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe Navigon Navigator does'nt support your region but for 95% of the users Navigator IS a decent navigation app (and version 4 should to be released soon to the market i read somewhere).
There will never be an OS that will fully forfill YOUR needs but when it does what the majority of users want it's on the right way.

I dont get the "no good gps apps" argument. Is Garmin Streetpilot not available in the US or Europe?

How about this. Let's come up with a list of the apps that we really want and some of us can start to ping them (via twitter or email) to see whether or not they are working on a WP7 app and any idea when it's coming.

Im getting 5+ updates everyday and most are for mango. It takes time.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

PG2G said:
How about this. Let's come up with a list of the apps that we really want and some of us can start to ping them (via twitter or email) to see whether or not they are working on a WP7 app and any idea when it's coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an idea I can run with instead of countless posts moaning and groaning!
I'll start
Ereader.com (Back when I had my pocket pc, then android so I have a lot of books on there, would love to have this on wp7) However Barnes and Nobles own the company now and they have the nook so probably a hopeless cause....
A Barnes and Noble Nook app wouldn't hurt though...
sent the tweet: @BN_care will you be releasing a Nook app for Windows Phone 7? I'd also like to read my ereader.com books on my windows phone. Help!

the92playboy said:
I dont get the "no good gps apps" argument. Is Garmin Streetpilot not available in the US or Europe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Garmin is US only, Navigon so far is only available in Germany (?)
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
Garmin is US only, Navigon so far is only available in Germany (?)
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Canada also has Garmin, and works awesome for those interested.

This is pretty much the reason I can't see myself switching. I have an iPhone. Why do I want to move to a platform where I can do less than I already can? I really want certain apps on WP7 before I move or I just cannot justify moving. It may be an unimportant app to most people, but an app like Grindr is something I don't want my platform without. Not to mention I have a free turn-by-turn app with iOS(which I believe Nokia is going to be addressing, and is most likely the hardware I'd be buying if I got a Windows Phone).
A lot of people on here(from what I've noticed) are saying that WP7 needs to get more unique apps. While that's nice and all, I want already existing apps. Most of my friends also have iPhones, and I don't want them to tell me to pull up an app and be unable to. I don't really care about the "look what my phone can do and yours can't." I care about being able to do all that they can at the very least.
Many people on here care about games and think that could be the main selling point of WP7. I just don't see it happening. While it's a small sample size, most people I've met pretty much only pick up simple games like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope(if that). I just don't feel that a large majority of smart phone owners want to play action-packed RPGs on their phones. We have computers and consoles for that. And while it might be a nice novelty to be able to once in a while, again, the only games people I know as well as myself play are the simple pick it up for a few minutes and put it back down games.
Next comes the photography apps. I almost never take pictures, but many, many people do. I don't have a WP7 to compare apps with, but I'm curious what the photo apps on there are like. I have Camera+, Hipstamatic, and Instagram on my phone. How do non-native apps(and I guess the native app) on WP7 stack up to those? I hope Nokia will save the day in terms of excellent camera quality, but the in-app editing is also a pretty important feature to me(when I do actually take pictures) and others.
The Windows Phone OS looks pretty amazing, but I just can't justify moving until it can do all that my iPhone can in terms of apps relevant to me. I'm hoping by WP8 it will be all I want and more, and just maybe it will be able to suck me out of the Apple ecosystem. The live tiles are a pretty excellent concept, and while it's compelling, I need more apps to be available. People almost always develop for iOS before they develop for Android or WP7, so it definitely leaves something to be desired in that department.
The only thing I'd be pleased with is the fact that Skype integration is coming. On that token, I already have a Skype app with video calling on the iPhone. So Microsoft has definitely got to step up their game, get existing apps on this platform at all costs, and make sure their own in-house apps completely blow the other platforms' alternatives away.

the92playboy said:
Canada also has Garmin, and works awesome for those interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While iOS and Andorid have MapQuest for free with virtually all the features of Android's Google Maps and Navigation for free.
http://wireless.mapquest.com/
Uses Navteq map data, BTW. Guess they were better at negotiating a licensing deal than Microsoft...

whistler-nl said:
Maybe Navigon Navigator does'nt support your region but for 95% of the users Navigator IS a decent navigation app (and version 4 should to be released soon to the market i read somewhere).
There will never be an OS that will fully forfill YOUR needs but when it does what the majority of users want it's on the right way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all well and dandy for those that have access to it. But there are many areas in Asia that still have no way to navigate offline.
It seems to me that a majority want WIFI tethering to avoid having 2 data plans, The same reason I want it.
My 4 year old Nokia had WIFI tethering and world GPS maps.
I do love this OS. I am hopping Nokia maps will make it our way soon.
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------
Bl4ke said:
This is pretty much the reason I can't see myself switching. I have an iPhone. Why do I want to move to a platform where I can do less than I already can? I really want certain apps on WP7 before I move or I just cannot justify moving. It may be an unimportant app to most people, but an app like Grindr is something I don't want my platform without. Not to mention I have a free turn-by-turn app with iOS(which I believe Nokia is going to be addressing, and is most likely the hardware I'd be buying if I got a Windows Phone).
A lot of people on here(from what I've noticed) are saying that WP7 needs to get more unique apps. While that's nice and all, I want already existing apps. Most of my friends also have iPhones, and I don't want them to tell me to pull up an app and be unable to. I don't really care about the "look what my phone can do and yours can't." I care about being able to do all that they can at the very least.
Many people on here care about games and think that could be the main selling point of WP7. I just don't see it happening. While it's a small sample size, most people I've met pretty much only pick up simple games like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope(if that). I just don't feel that a large majority of smart phone owners want to play action-packed RPGs on their phones. We have computers and consoles for that. And while it might be a nice novelty to be able to once in a while, again, the only games people I know as well as myself play are the simple pick it up for a few minutes and put it back down games.
Next comes the photography apps. I almost never take pictures, but many, many people do. I don't have a WP7 to compare apps with, but I'm curious what the photo apps on there are like. I have Camera+, Hipstamatic, and Instagram on my phone. How do non-native apps(and I guess the native app) on WP7 stack up to those? I hope Nokia will save the day in terms of excellent camera quality, but the in-app editing is also a pretty important feature to me(when I do actually take pictures) and others.
The Windows Phone OS looks pretty amazing, but I just can't justify moving until it can do all that my iPhone can in terms of apps relevant to me. I'm hoping by WP8 it will be all I want and more, and just maybe it will be able to suck me out of the Apple ecosystem. The live tiles are a pretty excellent concept, and while it's compelling, I need more apps to be available. People almost always develop for iOS before they develop for Android or WP7, so it definitely leaves something to be desired in that department.
The only thing I'd be pleased with is the fact that Skype integration is coming. On that token, I already have a Skype app with video calling on the iPhone. So Microsoft has definitely got to step up their game, get existing apps on this platform at all costs, and make sure their own in-house apps completely blow the other platforms' alternatives away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post Bl4ke.
The cross platform apps are a must for WP7.
I still cannot believe Skype is not available for WP7. My friends laugh when I tell them I do not have Skype on my phone.

It is a disappointment ... coming to WP7 from Android ... I patiently heard the argument that the apps will come once mango is here ... and considering such quick deployment of the update, I was hoping the developers will take notice and flood the market with apps... instead all I see on the marketplace is the same set of apps being repeated in the featured section ...
1. There isnt a decent chat client for WP7
2. Youtube playback seems to be slow
3. No third party browsers ... IE9 does not support text reflow ... i see myself scrolling sideways and downwards ...
4. Bing navigation is so crippled ... thanks to their deal with Navteq
5. Facebook client looks ancient .. Twitter client is marginally better ... where are the live tiles though ?
I can continue ranting but honestly, I feel really sad about how slowly the new apps are coming in ... It was almost the same when I was with Symbian and the Ovi store basically did not grow ... I sometimes get so annoyed with WP7 that I wish to put my sim back in my LG Optimus One (a very midrange phone) ... but heck, I can do a lot more with it ...

k4ce said:
It is a disappointment ... coming to WP7 from Android ... I patiently heard the argument that the apps will come once mango is here ... and considering such quick deployment of the update, I was hoping the developers will take notice and flood the market with apps... instead all I see on the marketplace is the same set of apps being repeated in the featured section ...
1. There isnt a decent chat client for WP7
2. Youtube playback seems to be slow
3. No third party browsers ... IE9 does not support text reflow ... i see myself scrolling sideways and downwards ...
4. Bing navigation is so crippled ... thanks to their deal with Navteq
5. Facebook client looks ancient .. Twitter client is marginally better ... where are the live tiles though ?
I can continue ranting but honestly, I feel really sad about how slowly the new apps are coming in ... It was almost the same when I was with Symbian and the Ovi store basically did not grow ... I sometimes get so annoyed with WP7 that I wish to put my sim back in my LG Optimus One (a very midrange phone) ... but heck, I can do a lot more with it ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am coming from WM 6.5 and its an utter let down and nothing but regrets..
following are some apps which dosent need any further API release, nor any hardware shortcoming:
A 'decent' wallet app. (code wallet pro)
A decent agenda and appointments app (pocket informant)
A call monitoring app, calculating PEAK/offpeak/weekend minutes (phone dashboard) Basic call times is missing from call history.
An application to send SMS on particular time and date, like a SMS scheduler.
SMS backup application.
A Data monitor to calculate how much 3G/WIFI data I am using, weekly/daily/monthly/yearly.
A call/SMS blocker.
Audio recorder to record incoming/outgoing calls automatically. (resco audio recorder)
Last good game which lasted more than one day from start to finish was on 5/18/11: plant vs. zombies. You dont need APIs to make a good nor is their any hardware limitation. There were games in begining but now its just pathetic.. COLLAPSE? Burn the Rope? I mean seriously.. Why we still call it a 'smartphone' with dumb games like that?
All the apps right now are so basic.. and all the 'mango' updates have been equally basic. I guess mango was all about flipping that tile to show other side.. thats it.. we got the flipping tile.. NOW WHAT? WTF can I do more with this phone than just stare at that flipping tile??

Quality apps take time to make. MS did give a decent window to prepare apps, and Kinsoft apps was able to get their apps updated, but we only enabled fast resume - the easiest Mango feature to add. Some of these other features/API's take more time to add or even require a ground-up approach. So give it time.

Wp7 is new. You knew what you were getting yourself into when you bought into the platform.
WP7 won't be perfect overnight. Takes time. If you don't have the patience or certain features are as vital to you as oxygen then by all means sell your wp7 and jump to the flourishing app store of iOS or Android.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App