Develop Bugs

Application HUB ??

I would like to know if there's gonna be an application HUB in the new Windows Phone 7 Series??
Would be nice to have a hub where you can add your favorite 3rd party applications like:
- Location/Navigation software (Google Maps, TomTom, iGO, CoPilot etc.)
- Browser software (Opera, Skyfire etc.)
- Games
- Multimedia software (CorePlayer, TCPMP etc.)
Sorted by example on Category or Most used.
Would be nice, usefull and marketable.

I don't get why Microsoft would introduce an "Application Hub" when the point of Hubs was to get rid of the "applications".
Games would be in the games hub, multimedia would be in the multimedia hub. There's an applications list in alphabetical order on the start page if the right arrow is pressed...

according to http://www.modaco.com/ there's a marketplace hub. does this mean this is the only entry point to install applications? Makes me get panic attacks!

I guess that there'd be another way to install applications, unless they want to have corporate users stay with WinMo 6.5.* for the future, as when a company wants to have a mobile app tied to there custom company software for in house use, they for sure wouldn't want it to take the way over the Marketplace.
As for having the most used applications easily available: you could just pin them to the Startscreen a.k.a. Live-Tiles. You can pin single contacts, single albums, single songs there and I believe somebody already said, that u could pin programs from the App-List to the right too. Depends on the application how it then uses the Live Tile (to display highscore, in-game scenes or what not).

StevieBallz said:
I guess that there'd be another way to install applications, unless they want to have corporate users stay with WinMo 6.5.* for the future, as when a company wants to have a mobile app tied to there custom company software for in house use, they for sure wouldn't want it to take the way over the Marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a good point. I hope you are right. Not being able to run whatever program I want to is a big deal breaker for me. If this were the case I would go Android unless WP7 gets jailbroken (I feel so sad using this term for WM/WP; it is so open right now. Why restrict it in such ways?).

the reason that they are restricting the apps, is to make the system more stable. They want the experience to be amazing on every phone, eg making the hardware requirements so strict. They want to be able to evaluate what an app does to the system before it is released. They are making the submission parameters easier to comply with, so it will be easy to put your work on marketplace. They new marketplace specs for 6.5 will give developers the ability to make links straight to the app on the marketplace.
Initially I was starting to kinda freak out, but I think this is for the best. It will force people to use the marketplace, and since it won't support old apps, it will move all the applications for windows mobile to one spot, it is just one more way they are trying to compete with apple.
And on a side note, I'm not actually sure that winpho7 has a file explorer... Nothing in the demo gave me reason to think that one would be there. I think they are trying to replace explorer with the hubs.

If you swipe left on the start page, you get a list of all your applications.
I don't think there's a seperate, categorised hub.
I believe you can also add shortcut tiles on the start page, but that's all I know.
(And yeah, I too would like to find out whether WP7 has a file explorer...)

webpatrick said:
I would like to know if there's gonna be an application HUB in the new Windows Phone 7 Series??
Would be nice to have a hub where you can add your favorite 3rd party applications like:
- Location/Navigation software (Google Maps, TomTom, iGO, CoPilot etc.)
- Browser software (Opera, Skyfire etc.)
- Games
- Multimedia software (CorePlayer, TCPMP etc.)
Sorted by example on Category or Most used.
Would be nice, usefull and marketable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean to be rude but this doesn't make any sense.
Add your favorite applications to your Start Screen. All the rest are in a list when you swipe to the right.
Apps that fit a certain category would go in that category's hub. Why would you have Games in an Application hub and then have a Games hub? Remember under the Music&Video hub there was Pandora (right now they have it under a list of apps under the hub).. that's your Multimedia software.
I do agree that additional hubs would make sense.. we don't only care about people and pictures etc. but also things like RSS news updates, or like you said, location and navigation. An Internet hub would be a good place for Favorites/Bookmarks, History (shared across every installed browser), RSS, IE8 Web Slices, website notifications (not every update on Twitter and Facebook is by an actual person/contact), etc. If you give the same treatment to Location/Mapping, then suddenly you don't have the standalone apps of IE and Bing sticking out in the hub-centric experience.
but a bunch of shortcuts to different programs doesn't make sense as a hub, just pin them to Start.

reformedctrlz said:
the reason that they are restricting the apps, is to make the system more stable. They want the experience to be amazing on every phone, eg making the hardware requirements so strict. They want to be able to evaluate what an app does to the system before it is released. They are making the submission parameters easier to comply with, so it will be easy to put your work on marketplace. They new marketplace specs for 6.5 will give developers the ability to make links straight to the app on the marketplace.
Initially I was starting to kinda freak out, but I think this is for the best. It will force people to use the marketplace, and since it won't support old apps, it will move all the applications for windows mobile to one spot, it is just one more way they are trying to compete with apple.
And on a side note, I'm not actually sure that winpho7 has a file explorer... Nothing in the demo gave me reason to think that one would be there. I think they are trying to replace explorer with the hubs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that you have to pay $100 for your spot at the marketplace table. Even if your app is free. Simply not fair. No more xda members coding up their own programs and releasing free.
And hubs is not a file explorer. I dont want a device that thinks it knows what I want to do with my files. If I want something that restricts where I get apps and what files I am allowed to store on my device I will get an iphone.
The only thing wp7 might have over iphone os (besides interface; I do think wp7 has a very cool and original ui; that is a matter of opinion though) is multitasking. While details are slim and it sounds like multitasking capability will be very restricted, it sounds like background processing will be available to third party apps at least in some form. Thats more than iphones can say.
Unfortunately I think its android time for me. But I'm not sad about it. Ive started really looking into it and it seems pretty cool. It has full multitasking now and the latest phones are sporting some awesome hardware. I will probably get my first android phone over the summer and i'm excited.
I'm not waiting nearly another year to get hands on an actual wp7 device. Maybe when more details come out it won't be so bad but I doubt it and I'm not waiting to find out. The direction of Microsoft is back in time toward more restriction and control of the product. It's time I jump ship to an open source OS. Sad because I love MS desktop products. My computing world is a constant battle between google and MS. I use windows 7, outlook, exchange, windows mobile office ect. But I choose google over ie, google over bing, and soon android over wm. Will be interesting to see how well this combination will play together.

I don't think installing Cab files will change all too much..I believe it will be much like it is today except we aren't putting the cart before the horse this time. I mean Marketplace just launched months ago even though WinMo has been around for over a decade...its hard to have an effective marketplace when people who want apps know the better places to find them. This time around the app store will launch with the OS so i think it puts more emphasis on the App store (to the average consumer) as well as being better integrated into the phone...but who's/what's stopping us from just downloading Apps the same as usual? Microsoft has mentioned that Activesync will still work with WP7 (Zune will be just for music, pictures, movies) so why is it all of a sudden impossible just to do what we've been doing for years?
It seems odd the exodus that seems to be happening lately. Its like you guys were perfectly happy with with Windows the way it is now?!?! If you are then stay with it the way it is now..lol. I personally can't wait to the what the guys here are gonna come up with for HUB's...hell I can't wait for HTC to put their special touch on WP7..I can imagine the HUB put together in a TF3D fashion...with their own additions of Weather (with that gorgeous UI) stocks...etc. I'm not gonna lie...the possibilities are as endless in the future as they are with the current OS. I think it will be fun to see in about a year, how many of you guys who are riding the fence or doubting the upcoming release will change your minds.
I once had to drag my best friend on a double date....he didn't want to go, he complained the whole way there...saw the girl, and did everything he could to make an excuse to get out of there (she wasn't his type)...now they're married, crazy things happen when you give something a chance. I've waited 2+ years for this and won't back out now just because I see something I don't know the answer to...once I get the OS in hand I will make my decision. I think thats the most logical way
~style~

style1 said:
I don't think installing Cab files will change all too much..I believe it will be much like it is today except we aren't putting the cart before the horse this time. I mean Marketplace just launched months ago even though WinMo has been around for over a decade...its hard to have an effective marketplace when people who want apps know the better places to find them. This time around the app store will launch with the OS so i think it puts more emphasis on the App store (to the average consumer) as well as being better integrated into the phone...but who's/what's stopping us from just downloading Apps the same as usual? Microsoft has mentioned that Activesync will still work with WP7 (Zune will be just for music, pictures, movies) so why is it all of a sudden impossible just to do what we've been doing for years?
It seems odd the exodus that seems to be happening lately. Its like you guys were perfectly happy with with Windows the way it is now?!?! If you are then stay with it the way it is now..lol. I personally can't wait to the what the guys here are gonna come up with for HUB's...hell I can't wait for HTC to put their special touch on WP7..I can imagine the HUB put together in a TF3D fashion...with their own additions of Weather (with that gorgeous UI) stocks...etc. I'm not gonna lie...the possibilities are as endless in the future as they are with the current OS. I think it will be fun to see in about a year, how many of you guys who are riding the fence or doubting the upcoming release will change your minds.
I once had to drag my best friend on a double date....he didn't want to go, he complained the whole way there...saw the girl, and did everything he could to make an excuse to get out of there (she wasn't his type)...now they're married, crazy things happen when you give something a chance. I've waited 2+ years for this and won't back out now just because I see something I don't know the answer to...once I get the OS in hand I will make my decision. I think thats the most logical way
~style~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you have misunderstood the announcements. Activesync (as in sync with PC) will NOT be available. It also seems that there is no way to access the file system on the device. The only way to install apps is through the marketplace. They are removing the ability to just install a cab as we have always done. That is the problem. I am not saying I won't give it a chance. These points may turn out to be wrong. All I am saying is that current info suggests that this is the case and if so WP7 is not for me. Of course I am not going to pass final judgement until it is released. But since all indicators point to the negative I am not going to wait to find out for sure when there are tempting alternatives. And no I am not satisfied with WM as it currently is. The problem is that WP7 fixed what was wrong with WM6 and at the same time trashed everything that was good about WM6 (once again, nothing is for certain but this is what evidence points to).

ok even if it's like that it's microsoft.
Even iphone has jailbreak. In our case we will not have to worry for warranty.
The so called no oem sw will return as bumerang on them.
This is the most hardcore forum on pda's and every one says bhaaaa on MS.
When they did their survey they mast asked only iphone and simple phone users, sertainly not wm users. )

"Multitasking" Stopwatch

Just to repeat myself about "tombstoning" and how it can represent multitasking as most people think of it, this article gives you an idea:
http://www.clr-namespace.com/post/Windows-Phone-7-Multitasking.aspx

Oh wow... so we can have (inaccurate) stopwatches "running" in the background on WP7? Great!
So, when I build a satellite navigation app, I set up a tombstone when the application is closed and when it's reactivated, I can calculate where the user is, because I knew where he was and how fast he was driving when he closed the app?
Awesome!
(oh and of course I don't take any responsibility for car accidents caused by my app - blame Microsoft or the idiots who said multitasking isn't needed when you got tombstones!)

You know, you would just use GPS for that

Yeah because usually it takes 0.000001 seconds to get a GPS fix!
Awesome!
Wait..... but how is my app supposed to give directions when it's closed? Hm, maybe not so awesome after all...
Satellite navigation is one of the most important things a smartphone must do and it sucks with WP7.
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
WP7 does none of those three things! No Youtube, no Pandora, no porn... (don't know why people want porn on their phones, but I understand the Youtube part).
Seriously, how many moronic defenses can you fanboys come up with? This OS will be an even bigger failure than Kin if Microsoft doesn't change directions fast!

How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?

I don't have a device to test with but I doubt it takes long for an app to get a fix. The OS probably keeps the GPS somewhat hot. Remember, Bing uses it when you search so they don't want it taking forever either.
And Bing has Satnav. Yea, I'm sure some will want a 3rd party solution but for most people, the FREE included nav will be just fine.

Fermat said:
Yeah because usually it takes 0.000001 seconds to get a GPS fix!
Awesome!
Wait..... but how is my app supposed to give directions when it's closed? Hm, maybe not so awesome after all...
Satellite navigation is one of the most important things a smartphone must do and it sucks with WP7.
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
WP7 does none of those three things! No Youtube, no Pandora, no porn... (don't know why people want porn on their phones, but I understand the Youtube part).
Seriously, how many moronic defenses can you fanboys come up with? This OS will be an even bigger failure than Kin if Microsoft doesn't change directions fast!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Flash is coming to the phone just after launch so that will solve your Youtube/Porn issue.

Windcape said:
How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It allows you to continue using your turn-by-turn GPS while conducting a phone call

Windcape said:
How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By giving voice guidance in background, for example.
RustyGrom said:
I don't have a device to test with but I doubt it takes long for an app to get a fix. The OS probably keeps the GPS somewhat hot. Remember, Bing uses it when you search so they don't want it taking forever either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you search you don't need GPS, cell tower location is sufficient. Not so for driving. That cell tower location data helps to get the initial fix faster in modern devices, but still it's not instantaneous, which is a problem when you get an incoming phone call while using satnav in areas you don't know well. Otherwise, of course the OS doesn't (and shouldn't) keep GPS on. iOS 4 will keep it on while you're running satnav apps. WP7 won't.
RustyGrom said:
And Bing has Satnav. Yea, I'm sure some will want a 3rd party solution but for most people, the FREE included nav will be just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that will depend on where you live and where you travel. Bing Maps has horrible coverage worldwide. Apart from that, online satnav apps are an absolute taboo while roaming, you'll end up with thousands of dollars in your bill.

I think that incoming call doesn't suspend your app, the app will be allowed to keep working on foreground.
Also, GPS fix (cold) takes about 20s on my TP2, warm is instant . (Depends on if I have downloaded QuickGPS data though, but that's why I have data plan for.)

Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny

vetvito said:
Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when I had a iphone when I switched apps they didnt pause I had to start over when I returned to it, on wp7 it pauses it so in most cases its the best way to do it..it helps save battery while still being able to what you need to do. very few apps need to run in the backgroud besides GPS & streaming apps, once MS gives access to those apps that need to run in the background then yes it will be a great new direction. for now i dont mind it, i dont use Pandora & even on my tp2 when i use GPS i keep it on screen so i can do without it until they add it

Yeah pretty much like IOS4...

My problem with the iPhone's lack of multitasking wasn't so much with background running as with the fact that there's no easy way to switch between applications (namely, the incoming call while using satnav scenario, which is a major PITA in iPhone's case). I just need to minimize the dialer and keep using navigation. If that's handled (and it is in WP7's case) then the only issue is getting the fix again. Quite frankly, I find the recent iOS approach optimal for most cases, apart from the fact that it only has one button and an ultimately crappy task switcher. WP7 will allow me to go back to satnav with one tap of the Back button, so that'll work.
For other, more rare cases than those covered in iOS 4, I would really struggle to find real-life scenarios where a background process would really need to consume CPU cycles all the time (i.e. actually run). WM has a set of APIs called SNAPI, where background processes simply "register" for certain events and work only to process them. That can be done so that it won't really hurt either battery life or performance.
For the most rare cases where programs actually do need to run in background - well, I see lots of reasons why those can be really restricted, but, like with native APIs, MS could actually make exceptions in certain cases without allowing them by default - at least I would certainly agree with such a policy.
Maybe all this will be done with time, they never said multitasking won't be implemented, they'll just need to think about how to approach it better.
I personally think that lack of multitasking may be a problem, but it's actually the least of my worries with this OS. Much more relevant and serious issues are lack of c&p and lack of ways to register applications as system-wide filetype handlers. These are real bummers (apart from miserable language support and marketplace coverage of course).

vetvito said:
Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except iOS didn't have a "pause" API from vanilla. They introduced something like tombstoning in iOS 4.

Windcape said:
Except iOS didn't have a "pause" API from vanilla. They introduced something like tombstoning in iOS 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did, since the OS 2 release in 2008
In WP7 there's an Application_Deactivated event fired when the user is leaving the app, in the iPhone pre-iOS4 the event function was called applicationWillTermimate but the purpose was exactly the same : allowing the developper to save data before the app shutdown. Some apps were implementing it before iOS4.
In iOS4, the OS save the application state when you leave it (pretty much like Windows hibernation), whereas in WP7, the developper has to do some work to support tombstoning (and i'm not sure all of them developpers will)
I just hope that, when they support background running services API, the task manager won't be as lame as Apple one, showing programs that aren't even running...
My 2 cents

@kooled: Ah, my iPhone knowlegde is flawed then. Thanks for the clarification.
I think we can expect to see a background-service API, once they figured out how to design one that prevents from the phone lagging out entirely, like all Android phones does these days.
Android have taken over Windows role as the OS that requires constant restarts

Windcape said:
Android have taken over Windows role as the OS that requires constant restarts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is really funny - it looks like you really believe these fantazies.
It's a really stable OS.

Fermat said:
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need porn on your mobile device I suggest you better get a girlfriend
I think it's only US people who care about Pandora since it's not offered over here in Europe. Hey and we are all still alive over here even without it
Anyways: A Pandora app IS being developed, they were called out as a partner (see http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/microsoft-announces-windows-phone-7-series-dev-partners-sling/ ).
I think they might be able to integrate into the Zune hub and use the zune player API too.

The difference between the 2007 iphone and 2010 wp7 not having c&p and multitasking, is that when asked Apple's response was that you didn't need it, and Microsoft's response is that it's done not yet.

Why take WP7 over android?

Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?

Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.

1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps

For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.

I like these arguments...
Keep them coming

- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.

sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}

Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)

It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]

Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.

Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.

^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.

And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.

I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).

Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?

vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.

Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.

I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App

Pandora/Major apps to support multitask

One of peoples biggest complaints is multitasking well here we go:
Scherotter said while a few major apps will be able to multitask, such as Pandora, the music streaming app that will play in the background while the user is doing something else, independent apps will not, for now. Scherotter said that eventually, independent apps will be multitask-capable, but he wouldn't say when that would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source: wpcentral (I can't post links yet)

Great find. Here is the link -
http://wpcentral.com/multitasking-coming-wp7-pandora-can-multitask-now

I'm pretty sure that was in the initial WP7 reveal back in Feb? The policy seems to be that the big names will get access to multi-tasking (for the moment) and even then only if they can justify why they need it. So basically music apps and maybe IM clients will get it for now.

Well at least there is some multitasking and so its a start

Only thin new about this news is that major apps will gain multitasking, we have known for a while that WP7 will get multitasking
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Well that is definately a start, not being able to listen to music in the background while responding to a text or browsing the web would be pretty lame.

Updated: Say it ain't so! Looks like Network World got the quote wrong as Michael Scherotter ask them to make a correction noting: "Great article but with a slight correction; built-in software like Zune can play music in the background. Pandora cannot at this time."

I've heard that going forward they will open up multi-tasking to apps that require it (given a good reason for needing it)

The latest Engadget Show had a lengthy interview with Aaron Woodman who confirmed that multitasking will be on the device and that there are zero technical problems with multitasking on the OS.
Microsoft are working on a compelling user experience to manage the multitasking applications which I think is a good thing. Apple have a good system but it's not perfect and what's the point of just copying the design from a competitor.
As copy/paste is coming at the start of the year I would be surprised if multitasking is not released by end of Q3 next year.

If you look through the marketplace you can see that some apps is using a permission named "RunUnderLock", I guess that that one is true multitasking.
I'm also pretty sure that Spotify have confirmed that they're able to multitask.

Sir. Haxalot said:
If you look through the marketplace you can see that some apps is using a permission named "RunUnderLock", I guess that that one is true multitasking.
I'm also pretty sure that Spotify have confirmed that they're able to multitask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last FM and the twitter app is reported to have multitask also actual user has reported it. here ->http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=823129

One thing I use a lot on my current device is Pocket IRC. I hope a form of it is made for WP7 and that it will multitask so you can do other stuff and come back to see if anyone is talking when the rooms get a bit quiet.

Apps so buggy

Ive had so many apps that suck so bad, they are so buggy and barely work. Such as Opentable, podcast, and several others. Makes me weary to even purchase full apps even though you can try them. Most apps available suck anyways.
I need:
Best buy app
Chipotle app
Panera bread app
Good podcast app
Good radio app
Good turn by turn navigation app
Opentable that actually works
and im sure there are several apps that I would like to use but not yet available, marketplace is full of bull crap. lets get some stuff people will actually use on a daily basis.

This whole market place concept is a bust.. just because it worked for iphone dosent necessarily mean it will work for wp7. They said marketing stuff like 'oh we have 6000 applications in marketplace!' Reality is its not even worth except for more than 1-2 of them to even download and waste time on.

937dytboi said:
Ive had so many apps that suck so bad, they are so buggy and barely work. Such as Opentable, podcast, and several others. Makes me weary to even purchase full apps even though you can try them. Most apps available suck anyways.
I need:
Best buy app
Chipotle app
Panera bread app
Good podcast app
Good radio app
Good turn by turn navigation app
Opentable that actually works
and im sure there are several apps that I would like to use but not yet available, marketplace is full of bull crap. lets get some stuff people will actually use on a daily basis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zune is great for podcasts. What do you want a podcast app to do? The Maps app has great TBT nav - no voice, though.

937dytboi said:
Good radio app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to guess you don't like the radio that's already in there.

This is the kind of thing that may suck on WP7 phones for a little while...but i expected that didnt you?
The iphone apps were all full of crap when they first came out....it took time for people to get used to making them, I think the promising thing is that big companies are starting to bother making apps, so it shows people are getting serious.
I read it in an article that MS is a software company and if theres anyone who is going to be able to make it work at this sort of 'late entry' into the market its them.
I have at least 12 APPS I really like and that I use all the time
I think we are just guna have to wait for a bit

The marketplace idea is not a bust.
Developers who want to earn money selling their apps and games have a better chance when all the customers are funneled to one place, as opposed to having to search obscure sites, to find their product.
At that point, it's up to the developer to try to make a compelling enough product for the customer to think it's worth purchasing.
For the customer, they could go to one place to look for anything that is currently available for their phone. They can try out any application without risk, and if they feel that the product is worthy, they can purchase it easily. The rules for purchasing each app/game will be universal. They don't have to go through different payment processes with different companies.

Purple11 said:
Reality is its not even worth except for more than 1-2 of them to even download and waste time on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? So which one or two out of the following do you feel is worth downloading?
Twitter
Facebook
Youtube
Microsoft Tag Reader
Adobe Reader
Shazam
IGN
IMDb
eBay
Flixter
These are just some of the apps I couldn't live without - however, if you manage to witter it down to 1 or 2 I'll post an updated list of all my "important" apps. Although, IMO, 99% of people would have maxed their 2 apps from the top 5 in the list above.

emigrating said:
Really? So which one or two out of the following do you feel is worth downloading?
Twitter
Facebook
Youtube
Microsoft Tag Reader
Adobe Reader
Shazam
IGN
IMDb
eBay
Flixter
These are just some of the apps I couldn't live without - however, if you manage to witter it down to 1 or 2 I'll post an updated list of all my "important" apps. Although, IMO, 99% of people would have maxed their 2 apps from the top 5 in the list above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This and more and more and more.
OP and hater beneath him, you're just being a little narrow minded tbh.

given that A LOT of the applications are data based, how is your network coverage? is it quite patchy? if so, this would explain why a lot of applications appear very bad constantly not responding/loading data.
as for the market place, i think it's a bit of a good and bad thing. the iPhone model is good for itself, but WP can't copy it completely because of the differences it has. for example, WP offers in app trial mode. this needs to be made more promonent and needs to encourage the end user that these apps work as a trial. with this, then more people who list their apps as a paid app would get better usage as people don't instantly think they have to pay anything to use it.
i personally don't buy any app unless i get a bit of a play with the app first. but the problem is, i have to go to each app to see if it has trial available. the market place needs to adjust to this variable in greater force because it's actually what makes the WP market place a great prospect and cancels out the duplicates which you see in the iOS market place (the free and paid version of apps).

emigrating said:
Really? So which one or two out of the following do you feel is worth downloading?
Twitter
Facebook
Youtube
Microsoft Tag Reader
Adobe Reader
Shazam
IGN
IMDb
eBay
Flixter
These are just some of the apps I couldn't live without - however, if you manage to witter it down to 1 or 2 I'll post an updated list of all my "important" apps. Although, IMO, 99% of people would have maxed their 2 apps from the top 5 in the list above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other than Adobe Reader all other software you mentioned are useless to me. I am a smartphone user, not an Iphone user.

Oookayyy... so what do you want then?

zukа said:
Oookayyy... so what do you want then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better: Calendar, Appointments, Time Management, Alarm, Wallet, Book Keeping, Expense Records, Maps, Navigation, SMS/Mail Organizing, Dialer, Auto-Call Record, Call Management, Data Management etc etc you should get an idea ..

Purple11 said:
Better: Calendar, Appointments, Time Management, Alarm, Wallet, Book Keeping, Expense Records, Maps, Navigation, SMS/Mail Organizing, Dialer, Auto-Call Record, Call Management, Data Management etc etc you should get an idea ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of which is part of the core OS - now if all you want are better implementations of the above, feel free to discuss what, specifically, needs fixing in the core experience.
If you ask me, the calendar, appointments, time management, alarms and email are all working fine out of the box - sure, we need better exchange support (server search etc), but it does what it's supposed to for now.
As for Book Keeping / Expense Records (why are you listing both?) - there are apps for this.
Bing Maps is included out of the box. Navigation may be poor, but there are apps for this that help somewhat.
In any case - if you need enterprise features like what you've listed above you're really not part of the target audience for WP7 at the moment. Something which has been very clear ever since the February unveiling of WP7 last year.

emigrating said:
Really? So which one or two out of the following do you feel is worth downloading?
Twitter
Facebook
Youtube
Microsoft Tag Reader
Adobe Reader
Shazam
IGN
IMDb
eBay
Flixter
These are just some of the apps I couldn't live without - however, if you manage to witter it down to 1 or 2 I'll post an updated list of all my "important" apps. Although, IMO, 99% of people would have maxed their 2 apps from the top 5 in the list above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See we are just two different people, KI dont have a twitter or Facebook account. So thats useless to me, Shazam I wont really use. But everything on your list is fine. My problem is that some apps that ive downloaded seem not to work like advertised and they crap out by running slow or not working at all. But I think im jumping the gun here, I just think we should have a better marketplace selection but I have to realize that the marketplace has just really opened to be honest. Just felt I needed to gripe about my experience

What's also a problem (for now) is that development for Windows Phone is so similar to developing for regular Windows environments: same tools, same programming languages, etc. A lot of "normal" Windows / .NET developers are early adopters of the platform and are having their go at developing a Windows Phone app. Unfortunately they don't always consider the limitations that the platforms has. They'll use a lot of heavy animation, request huge amounts of data, use imagery not optimized for mobile use. Thus: crappy apps.
I think over time this will all settle and the apps will become better.
That said, Microsoft does need to increase the overall app performance on the phone. There's a noticable difference between the built-in (native) apps and the managed apps.

stringray said:
What's also a problem (for now) is that development for Windows Phone is so similar to developing for regular Windows environments: same tools, same programming languages, etc. A lot of "normal" Windows / .NET developers are early adopters of the platform and are having their go at developing a Windows Phone app. Unfortunately they don't always consider the limitations that the platforms has. They'll use a lot of heavy animation, request huge amounts of data, use imagery not optimized for mobile use. Thus: crappy apps.
I think over time this will all settle and the apps will become better.
That said, Microsoft does need to increase the overall app performance on the phone. There's a noticable difference between the built-in (native) apps and the managed apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is blatantly false. First of all unless you're doing game programming you can only make Silverlight apps. Most regular windows applications do not use silverlight! You would think the web designers who use that stuff can create better apps, guess not.
Secondly the reason for crappy apps is entirely microsoft's fault. To get your app published, you need to pay 99$ a year for a developers license and get your identity verified by some thirdparty. After that when you submit an app, it is supposed to get reviewed by a team at microsoft to verify that your app meets many of the app guideliness set (like not crashing!).
I remember going to Tech Days (microsoft developer conference) and hearing them bragging about how their app reviews ensured that only quality apps were released but lately the amount of **** apps that have been appearing on the app marketplace makes me think they are just auto approving anything without even checking to see if it works.

pillsburydoughman said:
this is blatantly false. First of all unless you're doing game programming you can only make Silverlight apps. Most regular windows applications do not use silverlight! You would think the web designers who use that stuff can create better apps, guess not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zero windows applications use Silverlight. WPF maybe, but Silverlight is a web-only subset. What stringray actually said was:
Windows Phone is so similar to developing for regular Windows environments: same tools, same programming languages, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is correct. Visual Studio is the primary development tool for desktop and C# is very popular development language for desktop.
The rest of what you said is probably true. But you can never test an app and say that it will never crash. Do you remember WM6.5 when you downloaded an app to find it didn't even launch on your device? Well at least it's filtering out all that crap

Silverlight is not only for web development. I believe since Silverlight 3.0 you can use them as desktop applications as well.
pillsburydoughman said:
Secondly the reason for crappy apps is entirely microsoft's fault. To get your app published, you need to pay 99$ a year for a developers license and get your identity verified by some thirdparty. After that when you submit an app, it is supposed to get reviewed by a team at microsoft to verify that your app meets many of the app guideliness set (like not crashing!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the way you pay and get verified the reason why the apps are MS' fault?
Yea, they check them but rarely have I seen an app crash (actually I haven't yet but I'm not going to state that all of them have).

I just want to quickly point something to the ones you have hated apps.
Why don't you give feedback to developers? I have given serveral and emailed several feedback and have gotten a response each time. And each time, they take my feedback into consideration and either plan to implement them in the future.
As the end-user don't we want the best product? To get the best, we have to critique and help evolve the marketplace/apps. Only this way do developers know how to improve and what needs to be improved.
Otherwise they believe everything is dandy.

pillsburydoughman said:
this is blatantly false. First of all unless you're doing game programming you can only make Silverlight apps. Most regular windows applications do not use silverlight!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Silverlight development does resemble WPF programming a lot (afterall, it is a subset of WPF). And we've been doing WPF programming for years now, haven't we? Actually, if you stick to simply placing controls on a page and adding event code it resembles WinForms very much. And that last thing is what I see happening a lot. Many developers create some spaghetti app, which totally messes up tombstoning or page navigation.
Once developers get more comfortable with Windows Phone (Silverlight) programming, they'll see that things like the MVVM pattern, async processing , etc. actually do make sense and can be very helpful. And that's when the good apps are starting to get made.
Secondly the reason for crappy apps is entirely microsoft's fault. To get your app published, you need to pay 99$ a year for a developers license and get your identity verified by some thirdparty. After that when you submit an app, it is supposed to get reviewed by a team at microsoft to verify that your app meets many of the app guideliness set (like not crashing!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In general I think they do a really good job. Of course they had to learn in the beginning and a lot of faults were made. But the test department is getting better and better. The reports you get when an app fails certification are often very detailed.
Don't forget they check apps against the Guidelines. I agree there are a lot of stupid apps (Peace Sign app, anyone?). But those apps do follow the Guidelines.
Crashes are hard to predict and it's not that easy to test for them. Personally, I haven't experienced much app crashing on my device. In fact, I've seen more apps crash on my iOS devices than on my WP7.
Microsoft has said they collect crash dumps from all apps on the phone (at least, if you've opted in for that). I hope that someday they'll give us developers access to those dumps, so we can do post-mortem analysis of our app's crashes.
But lately the amount of **** apps that have been appearing on the app marketplace makes me think they are just auto approving anything without even checking to see if it works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally disagree. The apps may be not to your liking, but most of them do work according to the Guidelines. And did you give feedback to the developers of those apps? They often actually listen!