Develop Bugs

"Multitasking" Stopwatch

Just to repeat myself about "tombstoning" and how it can represent multitasking as most people think of it, this article gives you an idea:
http://www.clr-namespace.com/post/Windows-Phone-7-Multitasking.aspx

Oh wow... so we can have (inaccurate) stopwatches "running" in the background on WP7? Great!
So, when I build a satellite navigation app, I set up a tombstone when the application is closed and when it's reactivated, I can calculate where the user is, because I knew where he was and how fast he was driving when he closed the app?
Awesome!
(oh and of course I don't take any responsibility for car accidents caused by my app - blame Microsoft or the idiots who said multitasking isn't needed when you got tombstones!)

You know, you would just use GPS for that

Yeah because usually it takes 0.000001 seconds to get a GPS fix!
Awesome!
Wait..... but how is my app supposed to give directions when it's closed? Hm, maybe not so awesome after all...
Satellite navigation is one of the most important things a smartphone must do and it sucks with WP7.
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
WP7 does none of those three things! No Youtube, no Pandora, no porn... (don't know why people want porn on their phones, but I understand the Youtube part).
Seriously, how many moronic defenses can you fanboys come up with? This OS will be an even bigger failure than Kin if Microsoft doesn't change directions fast!

How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?

I don't have a device to test with but I doubt it takes long for an app to get a fix. The OS probably keeps the GPS somewhat hot. Remember, Bing uses it when you search so they don't want it taking forever either.
And Bing has Satnav. Yea, I'm sure some will want a 3rd party solution but for most people, the FREE included nav will be just fine.

Fermat said:
Yeah because usually it takes 0.000001 seconds to get a GPS fix!
Awesome!
Wait..... but how is my app supposed to give directions when it's closed? Hm, maybe not so awesome after all...
Satellite navigation is one of the most important things a smartphone must do and it sucks with WP7.
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
WP7 does none of those three things! No Youtube, no Pandora, no porn... (don't know why people want porn on their phones, but I understand the Youtube part).
Seriously, how many moronic defenses can you fanboys come up with? This OS will be an even bigger failure than Kin if Microsoft doesn't change directions fast!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Flash is coming to the phone just after launch so that will solve your Youtube/Porn issue.

Windcape said:
How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It allows you to continue using your turn-by-turn GPS while conducting a phone call

Windcape said:
How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By giving voice guidance in background, for example.
RustyGrom said:
I don't have a device to test with but I doubt it takes long for an app to get a fix. The OS probably keeps the GPS somewhat hot. Remember, Bing uses it when you search so they don't want it taking forever either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you search you don't need GPS, cell tower location is sufficient. Not so for driving. That cell tower location data helps to get the initial fix faster in modern devices, but still it's not instantaneous, which is a problem when you get an incoming phone call while using satnav in areas you don't know well. Otherwise, of course the OS doesn't (and shouldn't) keep GPS on. iOS 4 will keep it on while you're running satnav apps. WP7 won't.
RustyGrom said:
And Bing has Satnav. Yea, I'm sure some will want a 3rd party solution but for most people, the FREE included nav will be just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that will depend on where you live and where you travel. Bing Maps has horrible coverage worldwide. Apart from that, online satnav apps are an absolute taboo while roaming, you'll end up with thousands of dollars in your bill.

I think that incoming call doesn't suspend your app, the app will be allowed to keep working on foreground.
Also, GPS fix (cold) takes about 20s on my TP2, warm is instant . (Depends on if I have downloaded QuickGPS data though, but that's why I have data plan for.)

Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny

vetvito said:
Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when I had a iphone when I switched apps they didnt pause I had to start over when I returned to it, on wp7 it pauses it so in most cases its the best way to do it..it helps save battery while still being able to what you need to do. very few apps need to run in the backgroud besides GPS & streaming apps, once MS gives access to those apps that need to run in the background then yes it will be a great new direction. for now i dont mind it, i dont use Pandora & even on my tp2 when i use GPS i keep it on screen so i can do without it until they add it

Yeah pretty much like IOS4...

My problem with the iPhone's lack of multitasking wasn't so much with background running as with the fact that there's no easy way to switch between applications (namely, the incoming call while using satnav scenario, which is a major PITA in iPhone's case). I just need to minimize the dialer and keep using navigation. If that's handled (and it is in WP7's case) then the only issue is getting the fix again. Quite frankly, I find the recent iOS approach optimal for most cases, apart from the fact that it only has one button and an ultimately crappy task switcher. WP7 will allow me to go back to satnav with one tap of the Back button, so that'll work.
For other, more rare cases than those covered in iOS 4, I would really struggle to find real-life scenarios where a background process would really need to consume CPU cycles all the time (i.e. actually run). WM has a set of APIs called SNAPI, where background processes simply "register" for certain events and work only to process them. That can be done so that it won't really hurt either battery life or performance.
For the most rare cases where programs actually do need to run in background - well, I see lots of reasons why those can be really restricted, but, like with native APIs, MS could actually make exceptions in certain cases without allowing them by default - at least I would certainly agree with such a policy.
Maybe all this will be done with time, they never said multitasking won't be implemented, they'll just need to think about how to approach it better.
I personally think that lack of multitasking may be a problem, but it's actually the least of my worries with this OS. Much more relevant and serious issues are lack of c&p and lack of ways to register applications as system-wide filetype handlers. These are real bummers (apart from miserable language support and marketplace coverage of course).

vetvito said:
Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except iOS didn't have a "pause" API from vanilla. They introduced something like tombstoning in iOS 4.

Windcape said:
Except iOS didn't have a "pause" API from vanilla. They introduced something like tombstoning in iOS 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did, since the OS 2 release in 2008
In WP7 there's an Application_Deactivated event fired when the user is leaving the app, in the iPhone pre-iOS4 the event function was called applicationWillTermimate but the purpose was exactly the same : allowing the developper to save data before the app shutdown. Some apps were implementing it before iOS4.
In iOS4, the OS save the application state when you leave it (pretty much like Windows hibernation), whereas in WP7, the developper has to do some work to support tombstoning (and i'm not sure all of them developpers will)
I just hope that, when they support background running services API, the task manager won't be as lame as Apple one, showing programs that aren't even running...
My 2 cents

@kooled: Ah, my iPhone knowlegde is flawed then. Thanks for the clarification.
I think we can expect to see a background-service API, once they figured out how to design one that prevents from the phone lagging out entirely, like all Android phones does these days.
Android have taken over Windows role as the OS that requires constant restarts

Windcape said:
Android have taken over Windows role as the OS that requires constant restarts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is really funny - it looks like you really believe these fantazies.
It's a really stable OS.

Fermat said:
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need porn on your mobile device I suggest you better get a girlfriend
I think it's only US people who care about Pandora since it's not offered over here in Europe. Hey and we are all still alive over here even without it
Anyways: A Pandora app IS being developed, they were called out as a partner (see http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/microsoft-announces-windows-phone-7-series-dev-partners-sling/ ).
I think they might be able to integrate into the Zune hub and use the zune player API too.

The difference between the 2007 iphone and 2010 wp7 not having c&p and multitasking, is that when asked Apple's response was that you didn't need it, and Microsoft's response is that it's done not yet.

Why take WP7 over android?

Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?

Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.

1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps

For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.

I like these arguments...
Keep them coming

- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.

sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}

Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)

It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]

Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.

Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.

^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.

And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.

I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).

Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?

vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.

Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.

I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App

Lets see how fast MS will push an update now :)

now that we can sideload app's (something like a jailbreak)I am really interested how fast Microsoft will release his first wp7 update to fix this

ceesheim said:
now that we can sideload app's (something like a jailbreak)I am really interested how fast Microsoft will release his first wp7 update to fix this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a suspicion MS wanted this hack out there. MS has never been much of a locked down company, like Apple is. So I see something like this happening with their blessing.

ceesheim said:
now that we can sideload app's (something like a jailbreak)I am really interested how fast Microsoft will release his first wp7 update to fix this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They won't i think imo, Look at the Xbox, We get wave bans/Yearly updates even though they have teams following the forums for what's going on.
Jtags were aloud on-line for years until recently.
I'm just happy i have another device in C# so i can continue to make games and apps to make myself laugh.
MS thrive off hackers and modders imo telling them what's wrong and what people want without risking doing it themselves or overloading this first release scaring people off like the previous WM versions. it's all open source in a hackers mind, but the hacker can't sell the modified ROM can he , MS just release an update with more features*clever really*, where's the white line ? they just wait to see what's popular, same like FSD did for the xbox imo with all the media functionality.
*thats my 2pence *

The bigger issue is that the buzz from all the 'I want local outlook sync because I am scared of the cloud' brigade and the 'I want file explorer' gang is going to kill the platform before long, Microsoft are going to have to hack about with wp7 to meet their needs which is a shame, because if people took the time to think they would realise that:
1. Cloud solutions for syncing stuff can be simple and free ( hotmail, gmail mail forwarding)
2. Their emails are in the cloud already
3. Skydrive is a simple and free way to sync docs (although office integration needs to improve)
4. In terms of privacy, if you have something private on a laptop that you connect to the Internet and someone really, really wants it, they will get it!
5. Privacy again, with a cloud connected handset that you lose, you have the option of remotely erasing it.
I feel like I am in a minority that likes the way ms are going but I worry that because of all the negative rubbish on these forums and others, wp7 will die and I will have to go back to android or worse still ios

adesonic said:
The bigger issue is that the buzz from all the 'I want local outlook sync because I am scared of the cloud' brigade and the 'I want file explorer' gang is going to kill the platform before long, Microsoft are going to have to hack about with wp7 to meet their needs which is a shame, because if people took the time to think they would realise that:
1. Cloud solutions for syncing stuff can be simple and free ( hotmail, gmail mail forwarding)
2. Their emails are in the cloud already
3. Skydrive is a simple and free way to sync docs (although office integration needs to improve)
4. In terms of privacy, if you have something private on a laptop that you connect to the Internet and someone really, really wants it, they will get it!
5. Privacy again, with a cloud connected handset that you lose, you have the option of remotely erasing it.
I feel like I am in a minority that likes the way ms are going but I worry that because of all the negative rubbish on these forums and others, wp7 will die and I will have to go back to android or worse still ios
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. I like what MS is trying to do with WP7 but I fear the worse because Balmer isn't resolved like Jobs is.
Actually I don't think it really matters because what the Market is loaded with right now is pure crap. If MS lets this continue, forget about this platform surviving.

WP7 is great, I just have technophilia lol

adesonic said:
The bigger issue is that the buzz from all the 'I want local outlook sync because I am scared of the cloud' brigade and the 'I want file explorer' gang is going to kill the platform before long, Microsoft are going to have to hack about with wp7 to meet their needs which is a shame, because if people took the time to think they would realise that:
1. Cloud solutions for syncing stuff can be simple and free ( hotmail, gmail mail forwarding)
2. Their emails are in the cloud already
3. Skydrive is a simple and free way to sync docs (although office integration needs to improve)
4. In terms of privacy, if you have something private on a laptop that you connect to the Internet and someone really, really wants it, they will get it!
5. Privacy again, with a cloud connected handset that you lose, you have the option of remotely erasing it.
I feel like I am in a minority that likes the way ms are going but I worry that because of all the negative rubbish on these forums and others, wp7 will die and I will have to go back to android or worse still ios
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't worry WP7 won't die... ease of use/speed will not need to be sacrificed for outlook connectivity or some file access

Very true I mean the info. Is more secure on microsoft or Google server than it is on ur personal computer. Don't know why people are so scared of cloud based integration. It makes life a lot easier for people who dont wanna deal with syncing stuff on their own.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

MartyLK said:
Same here. I like what MS is trying to do with WP7 but I fear the worse because Balmer isn't resolved like Jobs is.
Actually I don't think it really matters because what the Market is loaded with right now is pure crap. If MS lets this continue, forget about this platform surviving.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason the market is so flooded with rss readers and flashlight apps is because that is about all that is currently possible with the current api.
Allow multi tasking, access to the compass, side loading of files into apps and a whole world of app opportunity opens up

AceofSpades25 said:
The reason the market is so flooded with rss readers and flashlight apps is because that is about all that is currently possible with the current api.
Allow multi tasking, access to the compass, side loading of files into apps and a whole world of app opportunity opens up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say "type" of app. I was talking about the quality of those apps and the devs who are crooks being allowed to post false and misleading apps.

mwako said:
They won't i think imo, Look at the Xbox, We get wave bans/Yearly updates even though they have teams following the forums for what's going on.
Jtags were aloud on-line for years until recently.
I'm just happy i have another device in C# so i can continue to make games and apps to make myself laugh.
MS thrive off hackers and modders imo telling them what's wrong and what people want without risking doing it themselves or overloading this first release scaring people off like the previous WM versions. it's all open source in a hackers mind, but the hacker can't sell the modified ROM can he , MS just release an update with more features*clever really*, where's the white line ? they just wait to see what's popular, same like FSD did for the xbox imo with all the media functionality.
*thats my 2pence *
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to clarify on the jtag thing, it was most definitly not years, more like weeks. When the first freeboot was released it was only a few weeks later which Microsoft made changes to ban anyone in a few hours after logging on live with a jtag. Sure you could use the king kong shader hack and run a bit of custom code long before freeboot but it was nothing amazing and you could not get online with the latest dash.
I think that Microsoft only really takes quick action when it poses a serious security threat, as with the jtag it allowed custom code and modified xex's to be run online whereas with just modded firmware you cannot, and modded firmware mostly just leads to piracy and a few cheaters with modded games. So as for WP7 at the moment I dont think that they will rush an update out just to patch up this hole.

Too much investment to let it die
adesonic said:
The bigger issue is that the buzz from all the 'I want local outlook sync because I am scared of the cloud' brigade and the 'I want file explorer' gang is going to kill the platform before long, Microsoft are going to have to hack about with wp7 to meet their needs which is a shame, because if people took the time to think they would realise that:
1. Cloud solutions for syncing stuff can be simple and free ( hotmail, gmail mail forwarding)
2. Their emails are in the cloud already
3. Skydrive is a simple and free way to sync docs (although office integration needs to improve)
4. In terms of privacy, if you have something private on a laptop that you connect to the Internet and someone really, really wants it, they will get it!
5. Privacy again, with a cloud connected handset that you lose, you have the option of remotely erasing it.
I feel like I am in a minority that likes the way ms are going but I worry that because of all the negative rubbish on these forums and others, wp7 will die and I will have to go back to android or worse still ios
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi all
I don't think M$ will let WP7 die. They've invested too heavily in it to let it go. I am in the minority camp here but I think that a lot of average users quite like what is on offer. I've shown my HTC Mozart to a few people who haven't ever used a smartphone and they were all "Wow! What is that? It looks amazing!"
I think it will do OK.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking

MartyLK said:
I didn't say "type" of app. I was talking about the quality of those apps and the devs who are crooks being allowed to post false and misleading apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's the same for any app store. iTunes app store probably has the same proportion of good apps to bad as does windows phone, it's just iTunes has 100 times more apps.

andrew-in-woking said:
Hi all
I don't think M$ will let WP7 die. They've invested too heavily in it to let it go. I am in the minority camp here but I think that a lot of average users quite like what is on offer. I've shown my HTC Mozart to a few people who haven't ever used a smartphone and they were all "Wow! What is that? It looks amazing!"
I think it will do OK.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've shown my phone to a bunch of iPhone users and they like it's look and feel. i don't have them throwing their iPhones away, but they definitely see it as a good phone and perhaps when it comes to them renewing their contracts (most of them have 3GS), they might think twice about just getting "another iPhone".

Where the hell all the talk of WP7 dying come from weeks after it's launch lol...
The marketplace is riddled with people rushing to get an APP out there. Will be like anything else every few days or so when we see a good app coming out.
Yipes.

adesonic said:
The bigger issue is that the buzz from all the 'I want local outlook sync because I am scared of the cloud' brigade and the 'I want file explorer' gang is going to kill the platform before long, Microsoft are going to have to hack about with wp7 to meet their needs which is a shame, because if people took the time to think they would realise that:
1. Cloud solutions for syncing stuff can be simple and free ( hotmail, gmail mail forwarding)
2. Their emails are in the cloud already
3. Skydrive is a simple and free way to sync docs (although office integration needs to improve)
4. In terms of privacy, if you have something private on a laptop that you connect to the Internet and someone really, really wants it, they will get it!
5. Privacy again, with a cloud connected handset that you lose, you have the option of remotely erasing it.
I feel like I am in a minority that likes the way ms are going but I worry that because of all the negative rubbish on these forums and others, wp7 will die and I will have to go back to android or worse still ios
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No the whole point of using Microsoft product is the way all their BUSINESS products offer tight and nice integration. I have no problems with cloud per say (I still don't trust them with security but that is just me I guess). Many people have invested heavily in Outlook and their work and life harmony depends of Outlook. Not giving them the ability to simply sync to Outlook is just pure lazyness. I am a software developer and I can see how they have taken simple route to eliminate sync issues.
You want ppl to use cloud contacts and calendar? Fine, ask Microsoft to first provide 50% of the available fields in Outlook! It's missing the most basic field such as Anniversary for a contact! The WP7 phone has that field but the Windows Live contact doesn't.

I doubt MS will rush to close this hole, if indeed, it's classed as a hole at all. Simple fact is, this sort of stuff is good for them, generally speaking. Particularly since they'll be able to block pirated apps from using live services, it deters piracy and promotes homebrew software to fill the gaps that would take them a lot of time and effort to fill. It's much more cost-effective to get a good base out there, and let the community pick up the slack and build on top of what they provide.
The fact is there are still other, much stronger protections that negate some of the traditional disadvantages a company may have with exploits of this kind. The protection that prevents people from porting WP7 to phones that have not had the licence paid for - means MS always gets their cash. The integration of the cloud also means they can detect pirated apps much more easily - for example, a Game accessing Xbox Live can have it's legitimacy checked server-side. Has that user purchased that game from the Marketplace? No? Deny them access. It adds a premium to staying genuine, and therefore, many will. That leaves the prime use for sideloading as homebrew, unverified software. Now, because it's unverified, they don't have to go to the trouble of supporting it, ensuring backwards compatibility as they move forward at a rapid pace, but yet their platform can still do *everything* it should be able to. And frankly, right now, MS know that profit is secondary to Market Share. A strong side-loading homebrew development scene can make serious inroads to the "open" environments that they are competing against, particularly Android.

The Gate Keeper said:
it's the same for any app store. iTunes app store probably has the same proportion of good apps to bad as does windows phone, it's just iTunes has 100 times more apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right now the WP7 app store is averaging 100%. The very first app I buy from this new store and it's false. That never happened with Android Market or iPhone App Store. But it is true, I need to give it time to get filled up. I'm just peeved at the bad del I got and the lack of a response from the money grabber.

MartyLK said:
Right now the WP7 app store is averaging 100%. The very first app I buy from this new store and it's false. That never happened with Android Market or iPhone App Store. But it is true, I need to give it time to get filled up. I'm just peeved at the bad del I got and the lack of a response from the money grabber.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought all apps came with a trial period?

hounsell said:
I doubt MS will rush to close this hole, if indeed, it's classed as a hole at all. Simple fact is, this sort of stuff is good for them, generally speaking. Particularly since they'll be able to block pirated apps from using live services, it deters piracy and promotes homebrew software to fill the gaps that would take them a lot of time and effort to fill. It's much more cost-effective to get a good base out there, and let the community pick up the slack and build on top of what they provide.
The fact is there are still other, much stronger protections that negate some of the traditional disadvantages a company may have with exploits of this kind. The protection that prevents people from porting WP7 to phones that have not had the licence paid for - means MS always gets their cash. The integration of the cloud also means they can detect pirated apps much more easily - for example, a Game accessing Xbox Live can have it's legitimacy checked server-side. Has that user purchased that game from the Marketplace? No? Deny them access. It adds a premium to staying genuine, and therefore, many will. That leaves the prime use for sideloading as homebrew, unverified software. Now, because it's unverified, they don't have to go to the trouble of supporting it, ensuring backwards compatibility as they move forward at a rapid pace, but yet their platform can still do *everything* it should be able to. And frankly, right now, MS know that profit is secondary to Market Share. A strong side-loading homebrew development scene can make serious inroads to the "open" environments that they are competing against, particularly Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with the above.

Mango is here... Where are the apps?

Remember when people were complaining about a lack of good apps and all they could hear was "There's no API for that, wait for Mango, bla bla bla...".
Developers have had the tools since when? May, June, July? Yet the only worthy app we've seen is WhatsApp. At a time when people are preordering the iPhone 4S like crazy, isn't it time WP crank it up a bit?
Why can't I have something as simple as Audible for instance (heck, there isn't even an Amazon app outside the US)? It's like the world stopped with Mango, I don't get it.
[Insert "you're to impatient", "buy an iPhone" comments here]

a good chat client. WhatsApp, IM+ DO NOT count as good chat clients. They are both broken, slow, buggy, laggy and half the time don't even work. If someone now says IM+ works then I'll ask them to use it on iOS or Android and see what 'works' REALLY means.

I must admit I was all excited about getting Mango and having Live tiles on the home screen.
Sadly there are hardly any good apps to use, And even fewer with live tiles.
{I would love Twitter to have a live tile}
The little things like no WiFi tethering and no decent Navigation app for WP7 is testing my patience as well. I am hoping Nokia will rectify these short comings as I really do love the windows software.
I just hope the hardware that this platform deserve is released soon.

TuneIn radio has been updated to Mango, and now supports background audio. That's the best update I've had - use that app all the time. Other than that a few of my map apps (Bingle Maps, GMaps) open quicker, but that's it really.
Yeh is a bit of a let down so far; still no augmented reality apps yet, or properly good WP7 exclusive games (could we have *one* FPS please?)

another complaining thread sighs....

sayonical said:
another complaining thread sighs....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well WP7 isn't a bed of roses as you might think it is. For those who paid through the roof have the right to complain if the platform doesn't meet their expectations.

agp64 said:
..... The little things like no WiFi tethering and no decent Navigation app for WP7 .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe Navigon Navigator does'nt support your region but for 95% of the users Navigator IS a decent navigation app (and version 4 should to be released soon to the market i read somewhere).
There will never be an OS that will fully forfill YOUR needs but when it does what the majority of users want it's on the right way.

I dont get the "no good gps apps" argument. Is Garmin Streetpilot not available in the US or Europe?

How about this. Let's come up with a list of the apps that we really want and some of us can start to ping them (via twitter or email) to see whether or not they are working on a WP7 app and any idea when it's coming.

Im getting 5+ updates everyday and most are for mango. It takes time.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

PG2G said:
How about this. Let's come up with a list of the apps that we really want and some of us can start to ping them (via twitter or email) to see whether or not they are working on a WP7 app and any idea when it's coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an idea I can run with instead of countless posts moaning and groaning!
I'll start
Ereader.com (Back when I had my pocket pc, then android so I have a lot of books on there, would love to have this on wp7) However Barnes and Nobles own the company now and they have the nook so probably a hopeless cause....
A Barnes and Noble Nook app wouldn't hurt though...
sent the tweet: @BN_care will you be releasing a Nook app for Windows Phone 7? I'd also like to read my ereader.com books on my windows phone. Help!

the92playboy said:
I dont get the "no good gps apps" argument. Is Garmin Streetpilot not available in the US or Europe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Garmin is US only, Navigon so far is only available in Germany (?)
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
Garmin is US only, Navigon so far is only available in Germany (?)
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Canada also has Garmin, and works awesome for those interested.

This is pretty much the reason I can't see myself switching. I have an iPhone. Why do I want to move to a platform where I can do less than I already can? I really want certain apps on WP7 before I move or I just cannot justify moving. It may be an unimportant app to most people, but an app like Grindr is something I don't want my platform without. Not to mention I have a free turn-by-turn app with iOS(which I believe Nokia is going to be addressing, and is most likely the hardware I'd be buying if I got a Windows Phone).
A lot of people on here(from what I've noticed) are saying that WP7 needs to get more unique apps. While that's nice and all, I want already existing apps. Most of my friends also have iPhones, and I don't want them to tell me to pull up an app and be unable to. I don't really care about the "look what my phone can do and yours can't." I care about being able to do all that they can at the very least.
Many people on here care about games and think that could be the main selling point of WP7. I just don't see it happening. While it's a small sample size, most people I've met pretty much only pick up simple games like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope(if that). I just don't feel that a large majority of smart phone owners want to play action-packed RPGs on their phones. We have computers and consoles for that. And while it might be a nice novelty to be able to once in a while, again, the only games people I know as well as myself play are the simple pick it up for a few minutes and put it back down games.
Next comes the photography apps. I almost never take pictures, but many, many people do. I don't have a WP7 to compare apps with, but I'm curious what the photo apps on there are like. I have Camera+, Hipstamatic, and Instagram on my phone. How do non-native apps(and I guess the native app) on WP7 stack up to those? I hope Nokia will save the day in terms of excellent camera quality, but the in-app editing is also a pretty important feature to me(when I do actually take pictures) and others.
The Windows Phone OS looks pretty amazing, but I just can't justify moving until it can do all that my iPhone can in terms of apps relevant to me. I'm hoping by WP8 it will be all I want and more, and just maybe it will be able to suck me out of the Apple ecosystem. The live tiles are a pretty excellent concept, and while it's compelling, I need more apps to be available. People almost always develop for iOS before they develop for Android or WP7, so it definitely leaves something to be desired in that department.
The only thing I'd be pleased with is the fact that Skype integration is coming. On that token, I already have a Skype app with video calling on the iPhone. So Microsoft has definitely got to step up their game, get existing apps on this platform at all costs, and make sure their own in-house apps completely blow the other platforms' alternatives away.

the92playboy said:
Canada also has Garmin, and works awesome for those interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While iOS and Andorid have MapQuest for free with virtually all the features of Android's Google Maps and Navigation for free.
http://wireless.mapquest.com/
Uses Navteq map data, BTW. Guess they were better at negotiating a licensing deal than Microsoft...

whistler-nl said:
Maybe Navigon Navigator does'nt support your region but for 95% of the users Navigator IS a decent navigation app (and version 4 should to be released soon to the market i read somewhere).
There will never be an OS that will fully forfill YOUR needs but when it does what the majority of users want it's on the right way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all well and dandy for those that have access to it. But there are many areas in Asia that still have no way to navigate offline.
It seems to me that a majority want WIFI tethering to avoid having 2 data plans, The same reason I want it.
My 4 year old Nokia had WIFI tethering and world GPS maps.
I do love this OS. I am hopping Nokia maps will make it our way soon.
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------
Bl4ke said:
This is pretty much the reason I can't see myself switching. I have an iPhone. Why do I want to move to a platform where I can do less than I already can? I really want certain apps on WP7 before I move or I just cannot justify moving. It may be an unimportant app to most people, but an app like Grindr is something I don't want my platform without. Not to mention I have a free turn-by-turn app with iOS(which I believe Nokia is going to be addressing, and is most likely the hardware I'd be buying if I got a Windows Phone).
A lot of people on here(from what I've noticed) are saying that WP7 needs to get more unique apps. While that's nice and all, I want already existing apps. Most of my friends also have iPhones, and I don't want them to tell me to pull up an app and be unable to. I don't really care about the "look what my phone can do and yours can't." I care about being able to do all that they can at the very least.
Many people on here care about games and think that could be the main selling point of WP7. I just don't see it happening. While it's a small sample size, most people I've met pretty much only pick up simple games like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope(if that). I just don't feel that a large majority of smart phone owners want to play action-packed RPGs on their phones. We have computers and consoles for that. And while it might be a nice novelty to be able to once in a while, again, the only games people I know as well as myself play are the simple pick it up for a few minutes and put it back down games.
Next comes the photography apps. I almost never take pictures, but many, many people do. I don't have a WP7 to compare apps with, but I'm curious what the photo apps on there are like. I have Camera+, Hipstamatic, and Instagram on my phone. How do non-native apps(and I guess the native app) on WP7 stack up to those? I hope Nokia will save the day in terms of excellent camera quality, but the in-app editing is also a pretty important feature to me(when I do actually take pictures) and others.
The Windows Phone OS looks pretty amazing, but I just can't justify moving until it can do all that my iPhone can in terms of apps relevant to me. I'm hoping by WP8 it will be all I want and more, and just maybe it will be able to suck me out of the Apple ecosystem. The live tiles are a pretty excellent concept, and while it's compelling, I need more apps to be available. People almost always develop for iOS before they develop for Android or WP7, so it definitely leaves something to be desired in that department.
The only thing I'd be pleased with is the fact that Skype integration is coming. On that token, I already have a Skype app with video calling on the iPhone. So Microsoft has definitely got to step up their game, get existing apps on this platform at all costs, and make sure their own in-house apps completely blow the other platforms' alternatives away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post Bl4ke.
The cross platform apps are a must for WP7.
I still cannot believe Skype is not available for WP7. My friends laugh when I tell them I do not have Skype on my phone.

It is a disappointment ... coming to WP7 from Android ... I patiently heard the argument that the apps will come once mango is here ... and considering such quick deployment of the update, I was hoping the developers will take notice and flood the market with apps... instead all I see on the marketplace is the same set of apps being repeated in the featured section ...
1. There isnt a decent chat client for WP7
2. Youtube playback seems to be slow
3. No third party browsers ... IE9 does not support text reflow ... i see myself scrolling sideways and downwards ...
4. Bing navigation is so crippled ... thanks to their deal with Navteq
5. Facebook client looks ancient .. Twitter client is marginally better ... where are the live tiles though ?
I can continue ranting but honestly, I feel really sad about how slowly the new apps are coming in ... It was almost the same when I was with Symbian and the Ovi store basically did not grow ... I sometimes get so annoyed with WP7 that I wish to put my sim back in my LG Optimus One (a very midrange phone) ... but heck, I can do a lot more with it ...

k4ce said:
It is a disappointment ... coming to WP7 from Android ... I patiently heard the argument that the apps will come once mango is here ... and considering such quick deployment of the update, I was hoping the developers will take notice and flood the market with apps... instead all I see on the marketplace is the same set of apps being repeated in the featured section ...
1. There isnt a decent chat client for WP7
2. Youtube playback seems to be slow
3. No third party browsers ... IE9 does not support text reflow ... i see myself scrolling sideways and downwards ...
4. Bing navigation is so crippled ... thanks to their deal with Navteq
5. Facebook client looks ancient .. Twitter client is marginally better ... where are the live tiles though ?
I can continue ranting but honestly, I feel really sad about how slowly the new apps are coming in ... It was almost the same when I was with Symbian and the Ovi store basically did not grow ... I sometimes get so annoyed with WP7 that I wish to put my sim back in my LG Optimus One (a very midrange phone) ... but heck, I can do a lot more with it ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am coming from WM 6.5 and its an utter let down and nothing but regrets..
following are some apps which dosent need any further API release, nor any hardware shortcoming:
A 'decent' wallet app. (code wallet pro)
A decent agenda and appointments app (pocket informant)
A call monitoring app, calculating PEAK/offpeak/weekend minutes (phone dashboard) Basic call times is missing from call history.
An application to send SMS on particular time and date, like a SMS scheduler.
SMS backup application.
A Data monitor to calculate how much 3G/WIFI data I am using, weekly/daily/monthly/yearly.
A call/SMS blocker.
Audio recorder to record incoming/outgoing calls automatically. (resco audio recorder)
Last good game which lasted more than one day from start to finish was on 5/18/11: plant vs. zombies. You dont need APIs to make a good nor is their any hardware limitation. There were games in begining but now its just pathetic.. COLLAPSE? Burn the Rope? I mean seriously.. Why we still call it a 'smartphone' with dumb games like that?
All the apps right now are so basic.. and all the 'mango' updates have been equally basic. I guess mango was all about flipping that tile to show other side.. thats it.. we got the flipping tile.. NOW WHAT? WTF can I do more with this phone than just stare at that flipping tile??

Quality apps take time to make. MS did give a decent window to prepare apps, and Kinsoft apps was able to get their apps updated, but we only enabled fast resume - the easiest Mango feature to add. Some of these other features/API's take more time to add or even require a ground-up approach. So give it time.

Wp7 is new. You knew what you were getting yourself into when you bought into the platform.
WP7 won't be perfect overnight. Takes time. If you don't have the patience or certain features are as vital to you as oxygen then by all means sell your wp7 and jump to the flourishing app store of iOS or Android.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

What frustrates you about an app?

So I'm working on a post for my site. It's going to be a list about things a developer does with an application that frustrates us as users. The goal is to highlight common complains from the community about practices devs use in their apps and to hopefully encourage them with feedback to improve.
This is the list I've got so far. Please feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree and ADD any things that bug you as a USER.
--Lack of a live tile: One of the biggest differences on our platforms and others is the inclusion of live tiles. If it makes sense for the application, a live tile is a must. I'm hard pressed to find a large category of apps where a live tile wouldn't make sense at some basic level.
--No fast app switching: No explanation needed, devs get with it.
--Not playing nice with Metro: You make an app for iOS or Android and now you want to port it Windows Phone as fast as possible...so fast you don't think about the design. Great apps on Windows Phone are those that capitalize on the principles of the design language.
--Have both a paid and free version of an app: Do a search for an app in the Market or App Store and you'll get two versions for a lot of popular apps: the free and paid version. There is NO reason why you would need to do that with Windows Phone. Devs have the ability to implement a 'trial' state of an application where they can do everything and more a 'free' version of an app could. Stop cluttering the Marketplace.
--Redirecting to a website: I once downloaded a sports app that had potential. I opened the app and played around. There was a pivot page that had a section for news. Clicked it...and bam. IE is opening up. Nope, no thank you. I want to use your app now your website.
These are some of the big themes that I've encountered more than I should when playing around with apps. This is not a major problem, but it's there and it really shouldn't be.
Also I'm not trying to put developers down, I know it's hard work and I myself am trying to learn as well. But we should strive for something better.
Alright, sound off with some feedback guys. Any other 'sins against users' I've missed that you encounter? I'd like to see what you think before I write the post on my site.
ALSOOOO.... How about you list some apps that contain these 'sins against users'. That way we can politely invite the developer to hear our thoughts and implement changes that benefit everyone. Happy users = $, $= happy dev.

All these are minor.. My biggest complaint is when push notification is either delayed or doesnt come at all. I've missed some important whatsapp messages cause it was delayed 10 mins.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

samsabri said:
[...]
--Have both a paid and free version of an app: Do a search for an app in the Market or App Store and you'll get two versions for a lot of popular apps: the free and paid version. There is NO reason why you would need to do that with Windows Phone. Devs have the ability to implement a 'trial' state of an application where they can do everything and more a 'free' version of an app could. Stop cluttering the Marketplace.
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.

Marvin_S said:
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Some devs don't mention what the trial offers(time-limited or function-limited) and hence I stay away from such paid apps. Sometimes the trial is fully functional with ads. Agreed that the devs were lazy to not include it in the description, but some users are lazy too. That would be the reason for two versions of the app.

it not being available at all.
or how about it's free on android or ios, but $3 on wp7... wtf?

Marvin_S said:
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I understand the marketing angle. I guess I live in some fantasy land in my head where the world is clean and organized. Hopefully with the Windows 8 Marketplace offering devs simliliar options in how they can implement trials we'll see less "free" apps because users may come expect every paid app to come with a trial.

svtfmook said:
it not being available at all.
or how about it's free on android or ios, but $3 on wp7... wtf?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is something I missed, I how they determine the price difference between platforms?
Off the top of your head, do any apps come to mind where there is a big price difference in platforms? Exclude Xbox Live enabled games for a moment, the reason being I can see the inclusion of achievements, leaderboards, etc to be the cause of the price bump.

I'm in need of a map/location/gps app, that supports offline map caching . while I found couple of them on marketplace, ones that had nice design an functionality, all of them where online only and ones that had offline map caching had terrible design an absolutely no functionality. thats sad
design and functionality should be put first IMO

Inconsistent Resuming and Lack of Tombstoning
Once an app leaves the foreground you have two methods of returning to it: use the app switcher or hitting the tile on your Start screen. Going from the app switcher resumes as expected, but going from the Start screen restarts the app, even if it's already sitting in the background. Now this is probably something Microsoft has to fix, but I feel that if more apps tombstoned, then it could make things more consistent.

samsabri said:
That is something I missed, I how they determine the price difference between platforms?
Off the top of your head, do any apps come to mind where there is a big price difference in platforms? Exclude Xbox Live enabled games for a moment, the reason being I can see the inclusion of achievements, leaderboards, etc to be the cause of the price bump.
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Click to collapse
Yes if they would note next to the price tag of each app wheter it contains a Trial version, it is less needed for devs to release a seperate "Lite" version. However the problem is now you have to click the app first than wait until the buttons show up in order to find out wheter an app has a free trial.
This should be there on the big scroll list so a user will see at first glance wheter he/she can try the app for free. At the moment I can't blame dev's for introducing their own workarounds.
But what is more annoying to me is that if devs follow metro design and don't use the margins correctly. Hence the app looks odd in comparison to the native apps, i.e. a lot of chat apps mimick the messaging app but don't pay attention to the margins, the bubble sizes and the bubble alignments, which will make them look very unprofessional. This is sad because they did take the effort to stylize the app like Metro, but they ruined the experience because of not "understanding" the fundamentals of the design language. Which is not just typography but also clever and precise use of margins, shapes and spacings. And since there is not much chrome, every tiny offset or error stands out to a trained eye instantly.

Marvin_S said:
Yes if they would note next to the price tag of each app wheter it contains a Trial version, it is less needed for devs to release a seperate "Lite" version. However the problem is now you have to click the app first than wait until the buttons show up in order to find out wheter an app has a free trial.
This should be there on the big scroll list so a user will see at first glance wheter he/she can try the app for free. At the moment I can't blame dev's for introducing their own workarounds.
But what is more annoying to me is that if devs follow metro design and don't use the margins correctly. Hence the app looks odd in comparison to the native apps, i.e. a lot of chat apps mimick the messaging app but don't pay attention to the margins, the bubble sizes and the bubble alignments, which will make them look very unprofessional. This is sad because they did take the effort to stylize the app like Metro, but they ruined the experience because of not "understanding" the fundamentals of the design language. Which is not just typography but also clever and precise use of margins, shapes and spacings. And since there is not much chrome, every tiny offset or error stands out to a trained eye instantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think going forward an ideal scenario would be a user expects to have a trial mode for any app that a dev is asking money for. It's a win-win for both consumers and developers. Check out this post from Paul Laberge explaining some of the benefits of a trial mode.
Seems like your second paragraph is echoing the statement to follow metro design language/principles and aim for higher quality control in regards to the design.
It's interesting, I feel like 5 years ago software was all about being functional with no regard to design. Now we not only demand, but expect applications to function well and look beautiful. Exciting times

karan1203 said:
All these are minor.. My biggest complaint is when push notification is either delayed or doesnt come at all. I've missed some important whatsapp messages cause it was delayed 10 mins.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Are those faults of the developer or the platform itself? I ask because I don't know a lot of the technical workings behind the push notification system. My limited knowledge tells me it might be a mix of both parties to blame.
Can anyone clarify?

apps?
For sure about Notifications part.
Push Notification can be useful "ONLY" when you have the phone right in front of your face. Because right after that, they are gone forever.
Second, Push Notification usually have a delay , about a half to 2 mins, from the actual event.
Like my friend can post a thing on my Facebook Wall, and the phone took about 2 mins to update it to the ME title. Same with all other Applications.
I used to try hacking the ROM and Registry of the Phone to reduce the delay of the Title Update. But failed so hard because Microsoft really locked it up hard.

I think most of the annoyances are captured already in the initial post but I'll also add
-That some apps are still being released without mango capability.
-Some apps are just the mobile site (for example the tagged app wtf?)

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
I think most of the annoyances are captured already in the initial post but I'll also add
-That some apps are still being released without mango capability.
-Some apps are just the mobile site (for example the tagged app wtf?)
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I was hoping I'd cover the most obvious complaints, but wanted to reach out and see if anything was missing. Also venting is good for us
And regarding Tagged...? Wow... I just looked at it on the web Marketplace and I won't let something that hideous touch my phone. It's just lazy and doesn't add any value to users or devs. Users get nothing out of it and as a dev what have you accomplished?
Apps like that should not pass certification. It seems draconian, but it's ok for us to demand and expect quality work.

wixostrix said:
...but going from the Start screen restarts the app, even if it's already sitting in the background.
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Click to collapse
This is (or was pre-Mango) a requirement to have your app certified. The rules say/said that a user returning to a task via the Back button is trying to complete an interupted task; a user launching the app from Start is starting a new task and shouldn't be presented with abandoned work from earlier.
I have a calculator app that maintains full state across invocations. I was worried that MS would reject the app because it preserved state even upon restarting. They did accept it, though.

Worst thing for me is wasted screen space.
A good example is the official WP7 Facebook app. Go to the "wall" screen, and you have "FACEBOOK" then "Most Recent" then "What's on your mind?" all permanently stuck at the top. Space is also wasted at both sides, meaning that only 50-60% of the screen is actually available to display your friends wall posts.
I thought the idea of Metro is to "put information first", so this is ridiculous. I have a phone with a 3.7" screen, yet the facebook app is more readable on my friends 3" non-widescreen Blackberry.

Aphasaic2002 said:
Worst thing for me is wasted screen space.
A good example is the official WP7 Facebook app. Go to the "wall" screen, and you have "FACEBOOK" then "Most Recent" then "What's on your mind?" all permanently stuck at the top. Space is also wasted at both sides, meaning that only 50-60% of the screen is actually available to display your friends wall posts.
I thought the idea of Metro is to "put information first", so this is ridiculous. I have a phone with a 3.7" screen, yet the facebook app is more readable on my friends 3" non-widescreen Blackberry.
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Click to collapse
I hear you on that Facebook app. Thankfully the integration with Windows Phone makes it so that I haven't opened it in months. I check FB once a day on the browser at home before bed, but that's about it.
But I'll chalk this complaint under the 'design abuse' category.
Anyone have any other apps that violate some of our sins in the original post in this thread?

I'd like to see improvements with the sound handeling. Most games have a 'music volume' and a 'FX volume' it seems the volume % is boolean, 0% is silent, 10%-100% is full volume. I'd like to listen to my music while gaming without the Pew Pew causing my ears to bleed