Develop Bugs

with all the control of wm7, Is it time to switch to a more open platform android?

wm7 = no native API call, stop running of background program and many other controls
let say good bye appl like WKTASK, CPUMonitorMini and many others

we have to wait for official comments next month. however why switch to Android? The native API of WM 6.5.x will not expire on our devices. With it we can do whatever we want.

...

I can't see me now buying a wm7 device in the future and I defenitly switch to android if wm isn't supporting multitasking anymore.
The fact alone that wm7 won't be backward compatible let's me thing about switching.
Thats all really sad because my omnia 2 is actually my first smartphone and I'm very pleased with it, basically because it uses a desktop like os.

drandazzo said:
will the current WM6/6.5 applications work on WM7.. eg. TomTom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. No piece of WM6 software will work on WP7. Some pieces may be easier for the developers to convert to WP7 than others, but all will require code-level conversion and recompilation of some sort.

Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
We need a clean break and that means no backwards compatibility. I want all my WP7 apps to have the jazzy new UI, full touch control and full integration with the hubs.
I don't mind paying the devs some more cash for a WP7 version of their apps, and I'm sure they won't mind taking that money off me!

Jim Coleman said:
Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
We need a clean break and that means no backwards compatibility. I want all my WP7 apps to have the jazzy new UI, full touch control and full integration with the hubs.
I don't mind paying the devs some more cash for a WP7 version of their apps, and I'm sure they won't mind taking that money off me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah when wp7 comes out thats when ill start buying my apps

Jim Coleman said:
Personally I hope 6.5 apps DON'T work on WP7, it'll make developers lazy and not bother re-writing their apps for WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The majority of the apps I use right now have already a kool looking ui (a lot of freeware is skinable anyway) and are fingerfriendly. And this includes stuff that is no longer in development and won't get updated.
If a developer refuses to update its app than there is a opportunity for someone else the be successful with a better product.
So why can't ms just let the market decide who got the best ui or functionality?
And for hubs, I don't really care for the new ui and would continue to use mobile shell (if still possible).

Shasarak said:
No. No piece of WM6 software will work on WP7. Some pieces may be easier for the developers to convert to WP7 than others, but all will require code-level conversion and recompilation of some sort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont see why tomtom or things like igo wouldnt work.
Microsoft said that backward compatiblilty will be difficult because of making it fit in with the OS, but if its full screen it doesnt need to fit in with any part of the os.

TheGoD said:
I ... would continue to use mobile shell (if still possible).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it won't be possible.

loomx said:
I dont see why tomtom or things like igo wouldnt work.
Microsoft said that backward compatiblilty will be difficult because of making it fit in with the OS, but if its full screen it doesnt need to fit in with any part of the os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah but you're missing the point. Tomtom, if written correctly within the new Silverlight framework doodad, will be largely subsumed into the Hubs interface - it'll provide new menu options in People, for instance, to navigate to their home or work address. In Calendar it'll do the same for the location of an event. Etc. Perhaps it'll calculate the route in background and then add it to a route list somewhere else on the phone, who knows. But it'll only go full screen with the 3D view etc when you're actually navigating. The rest of the UI will be done via the hubs.

Jim Coleman said:
Ah but you're missing the point. Tomtom, if written correctly within the new Silverlight framework doodad, will be largely subsumed into the Hubs interface - it'll provide new menu options in People, for instance, to navigate to their home or work address. In Calendar it'll do the same for the location of an event. Etc. Perhaps it'll calculate the route in background and then add it to a route list somewhere else on the phone, who knows. But it'll only go full screen with the 3D view etc when you're actually navigating. The rest of the UI will be done via the hubs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jim doesn't that sound ****ing awesome!?

in my opinion
winmo will be the best or the last
they have only one chance to make it the best mobile os or it will failed completly and all of us will move to android\iphone os

matckal said:
winmo will be the best or the last
they have only one chance to make it the best mobile os or it will failed completly and all of us will move to android\iphone os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on what WP7 really will be in the end, I'll switch to it, or just keep my old one. No intentions to switch to anything else, so please don't make such weird assumptions! WM 6.5.x will still be supported for a while by MS, and will be even longer on this board, so I see no reason to jump at the next opportunity because it's now suddenly hip or what?

Im done with Wm for Now...
Im done had all can take my HD2 is up for sale just picked up my Nexus one and its overclocked to 1.3ghz So fast microsoft im done....

Android is the new WinMo.
Except crappier. The slowdowns on the Qualcomm 72** series on the Android is more profound than on Win Mo. Thats how it felt to me.

I've messed around with android and it just doesn't seem that appealing to me honestly. Even though they may be locking down the WP7 UI. I love the integration it's going to have with Xbox Live and Zune. Not to mention the menu systems look very slick to me. I'll be sticking with Microsoft and I guess we will just have to wait for a crack to install our own apps if that's how it's going to go down.

after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.

RAMMANN said:
after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to say the same thing.
Android might have to get a complete faceleft and lose A LOT of functionality.
**** apple...

RAMMANN said:
after the recent Apple vs. HTC patent issues I would no longer talk so easy about bright future of Android. We never know what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, the future of Android has never been clear really. Not because the OS is bad or anything, but simply because Google doesn't really need it. That is, it's nice to have but it's not a life or death situation for them in this business. It's one of examples of their "let's throw all kinds of cool **** around and see later where it sticks" strategy. They pursue things that go easily and just as well abandon things that aren't going smooth - they just don't know where the money will come from, and don't mind that. Heck they didn't even know how to make money from their search business until they stole the context ad idea after unsuccessful attempts to buy it. But make no mistake - they are in business for the money. It doesn't mean they'll necessarily dump it, but it is an unclear and intransparent game.
So if I were an OEM I'd think a dozen times before really betting on Android, with or without the lawsuit. It's fine to use the opportunities it provides in the short run, but long term commitments? Nah.

no extra browsers?

looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599

No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...

A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.

seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...

C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.

I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)

C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.

Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.

C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.

C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make some musical ones, to live up to your name!

Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.

No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!

Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.

C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform

havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm

It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.

vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money

Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.

Why is 'our' Facebook app. so behind the iPhone Facebook app.?

Anyone got any ideas?
The iPhone Facebook app. is quick, slick, easy to use.
The one we've got is slow, jumpy, and just not as good in general!
You'd think by now SOMEBODY would have created atleast a mimic.

I got nothing to add except to say, yeah our app is crud.

I don't disagree that the Microsoft developed facebook app is behind the others. That said Opera loads facebook just fine, and it's the full site.
Then again I'll never understand the point of having dozens of apps that accomplish the same thing as loading up the already installed web browser and a bookmark.

I use the mobile Facebook pages at m.facebook.com via Opera 10, you can even choose between regular mobile and touch interface. It works for me!

Probably because the rest of the world buys into the hype put out by Apple.
It's like John Dillinger said when asked why he robbed banks...Because that is where the money is. Right or wrong, there are a TON of iPhones out there, and developers spend their time where "the money is".
I didn't buy into the iphone, simply because I've grown up with the WindowsCE
platform since the Dell Axim X5 days, so it was a natural transition to the Windows Moble/phone platform. That, and I want to customize the interface and functions the way I WANT TO, not how Steve Jobs says.

ditto man, I feel about the same.

mhurg said:
I use the mobile Facebook pages at m.facebook.com via Opera 10, you can even choose between regular mobile and touch interface. It works for me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you switch to touch interface?

luke6283 said:
How do you switch to touch interface?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scroll to the bottom of the page and click "Touch Site", or just go to touch.facebook.com

Toleraen said:
I don't disagree that the Microsoft developed facebook app is behind the others. That said Opera loads facebook just fine, and it's the full site.
Then again I'll never understand the point of having dozens of apps that accomplish the same thing as loading up the already installed web browser and a bookmark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ditto, m.facebook.com is even better than iphone app IMO

p51d007 said:
Probably because the rest of the world buys into the hype put out by Apple.
It's like John Dillinger said when asked why he robbed banks...Because that is where the money is. Right or wrong, there are a TON of iPhones out there, and developers spend their time where "the money is".
I didn't buy into the iphone, simply because I've grown up with the WindowsCE
platform since the Dell Axim X5 days, so it was a natural transition to the Windows Moble/phone platform. That, and I want to customize the interface and functions the way I WANT TO, not how Steve Jobs says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
daniel_lfc said:
Anyone got any ideas?
The iPhone Facebook app. is quick, slick, easy to use.
The one we've got is slow, jumpy, and just not as good in general!
You'd think by now SOMEBODY would have created atleast a mimic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell you this, the app for WM phones is way awesome. It has the same functionality as the iPhone app and the online browsers too. I think it runs smooth, updates quickly, and isn't loaded down with settings. Most of those settings for the other pages is just a bit of overkill. It's always true that the simpler the plan, the better the plan. You can always add to something if you need just a simple extra. You'll just have to write xml codes, if you don't know how and ur a bright person, you can probably figure out how to change those codes to add what you want or remove what you don't want, in a matter of days.
Plus, knowledge is power, I started out in this group just downloading and installing cabs. Now I write my own and have written weather apps alongside NRG that apparently have been stolen by HTC and WM6.xxx. The nifty weather on your screen that's flashy and self updating with a forecast and pretty icons for the weather conditions was 1st integrated by NRG, then Showaco and I kicked it up a knotch and finally duked it out with NRG only to realize that we were both making the same app, everyone and their brother jumped on the bandwagon so much that Microsoft and HTC "took" the ideas and integrated it into their ROM's. No worries, though, that's what this process is all about, learning how to create what is not already available
So, my advice in closing is to spend some time learning how to read xml, and then changing small bits, running the app, and seeing if it loads and does what you want, then slowly bit by bit, you will have an app that is PERFECT for your needs. It my seem impossible at 1st, but where there is a will there is a way, plus, hell you might end up writing something people will pay for or maybe HTC or Microsoft might offer u money for. Give it a shot.

daniel_lfc said:
Anyone got any ideas?
The iPhone Facebook app. is quick, slick, easy to use.
The one we've got is slow, jumpy, and just not as good in general!
You'd think by now SOMEBODY would have created atleast a mimic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's not an iPhone, it doesn't exist.....
Well, that's the impression you'd get from all the companies that advertise on the TV,
"There's an app for that" - *&%%$%$£$$$T23312£"%!!!!!!!!!!

Toleraen said:
Scroll to the bottom of the page and click "Touch Site", or just go to touch.facebook.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or that yeah, thanks for pointing it out

I agree the app is rubbish, it's main problem is the speed. It spends way too long doing tasks that don't require much data transfer, and dosen't have a progress bar of any kind to explain it's slowness.
I don't like using opera because you have to log in every time and it has no integration with the rest of the system. Not to mention lack of fb chat. I'm not an iphone fanboy (TP2 ) but the iphone facebook is way better.

Why take WP7 over android?

Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?

Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.

1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps

For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.

I like these arguments...
Keep them coming

- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.

sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}

Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)

It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]

Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.

Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.

^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.

And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
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Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.

I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).

Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?

vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
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Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.

Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.

I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App

[Q] WP 7 Rooting or Jailbreaking?

Hey!
So I want to buy the HTC Mozart, but I am not quite sure, because if there is no good community it wont be worth the money. So does anyone know if somebody is working on a root or jailbreak for wp7?
It would make the platform even greater
Thanks in advance!

People are working on it. I'd be surprised if there isn't a jailbreak available in 3 months after it is released.

Ok thanks I am just interested as the beta was already available and the roms have leaked in the htc Mozart category.

To general!
~~Tito~~

the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

Made2Last said:
the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
Click to expand...
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This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"

ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"HardSPL" is a bootloader that allows custom Windows ROMs - like flashing to BIOS in your PC to a 3rd party version
Windows doesn't have the concept of a "root or jailbreak" because there is no root account or Jail Shell.

ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM (Windows Mobile) is not equivalent to WP or (Windows Phone) Windows Mobile is the past, Windows Phone is Microsoft moving forward. I think they might actually have something with this new OS

Mhh interesting Thanks!
I tested the OS and it feels great, like my iphone 2g at first and after JB i noticed that it is crap without JB XD so just wondering ^^

~~Tito~~ said:
To general!
~~Tito~~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again To general.
This just discusses WP7, it does not contribute anything developmental wise, just discussion wise .
~~Tito~~

I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
The only thing that'll make sense right now is unbrand phones, to get carriers out of the loop in regards of updates.

Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not think that this is IOS with a skin!!
I just wanted to know if something like jb or root will come!
Not JB per se but only the concept of being able to do stuff MS doesnt want to!
@Tom Servo
I am not sure but isnt it running on a silverlight platform so it would be rather easy to develop different apps?

A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.

Tom Servo said:
A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh ok thanks!
Now thats kinda stupid from them.....

A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.

Tom Servo said:
I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.

Tom Servo said:
A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.
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Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! I just saw the app you created looks interessting
Is it in the market yet?
So as you develop such apps i have to ask you:
Do you think the problems you mentioned can be overcome like MS says.
Like in one or two months?
Or would you say that the market will not evolve as much as apple and android?

vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reason exactly!

vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft doesnt allow native code for 3rd parties, amd pretty much said they'll keep it that way. I doubt WP7 will support unsafe code for 3rd parties. It's too obvious a workaround...
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