Develop Bugs

It's official: Silverlight, XNA, 'clean break'

"For us, the cost of going from good to great is a clean break from the past. To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series."
http://blogs.msdn.com/ckindel/archi...e-new-windows-phone-developer-experience.aspx
He also specifically mentions developers in it for learning and fun. I have to think they'll embrace free apps and not charge a dev $99 to submit an app if it's going to be free.
Another softie's blog post on the topic... http://www.artificialignorance.net/...ne-7-series-developers-developers-developers/

Yupe, and all WM5.x, WM6.x applications will NOT run on WP7:
To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series.
Well, this is just a NEW mobile OS, it is not an upgrade / update of current WM, this kinda expected.

From the article:
ckindle article said:
We took the feedback we gathered from developers, looked at the full potential of Windows Phone 7 Series and landed on 3 basic goals for the platform we’re delivering;
1. Enable end users to be able to personalize their phone experience through a large library of innovative, compelling, games and applications.
2. Enable developers to profit.
3. Advance the “3 screen plus cloud” vision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
I hope a "launcher" like still possible? Microsoft mentioned that we can put app as a tile in the start screen. I am wondering if that app would be some kind of app launcher ... icons grid
ckindle article said:
When we talk with developers we hear them talk about three different “currencies”: making money, learning, and recognition. Some developers are in it for the money. They are either literally being paid to write code or they are writing code with the hope it will generate coin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could mean professional mobile developer who earn and make money for living developing mobile applications.
Give them free tools! free submission charge! That would certainly be more attractive.
ckindle article said:
Other developers tell us they are interested in advancing their knowledge – love of the game. They love learning about computers, programming, games, social connections, etc… So they build software to learn. They profit by being smarter.
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Click to collapse
Does this mean "hobbyist" aka XDA dev?
ckindle article said:
Other developers are clearly motivated by pride. Maybe there’s a bit of money and learning involved, but to these developers being noticed or recognized as doing wickedly epic sh*t is top of the list for how they measure profit.
We think all three “currencies” are valid and important and we are explicitly trying to build the platform and developer experience to support “profit” in each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or this?

From what I'm reading MS is actually listening to all of us and I think that is a damn good thing.

gogol said:
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
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As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?

RAMMANN said:
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's much more than an app.
@gogol Tiles can also be shortcuts. But I doubt that one tile can link to multiple apps.

seed_al said:
It's much more than an app.
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I know what Morbid Shell is. But by definition it's an app. You download it from Marketplace or somewhere and install the cab. Sense is not a cab but part of the ROM and you can say part of the OS. That's the difference as I see it.

Catalyst
WP7 is the catalyst that is getting me back into school to learn code. I have a degree in electrical engineering, but with the possibilities unfolding in the mobile OS world today, I want to be apart of that. The Star Trek dream has begun.

Don't expect any Haret.exe this time around.
This has turned into the same crap Apple did, a retarded OS for retards that have no clue in anything, but like the "oh so cool" flashy menus.

I think in regards to haret we are forgetting one very important thing as we compare this to iphone
jailbreak does broaden the possibilities on the iphone so I'm not so sure this is the total end of haret

what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.

hyellow said:
what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that the start screen on WP7 is definitely not a plug-in of any kind. It's hardcoded to the system and as far as we have been told no one is allowed to write different UI's on top of it. Not to say that it won't be possible. It just won't be carriers and OEM's doing it.

So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.

~Johnny said:
So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.
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Click to collapse
I don't believe so. These are still apps. MS is creating a single baseline that all developers will be able to use so the platform is uniform and easier to develop for. This will create a stable Windows Mobile experience and hopefully make it more enjoyable for noobs and vets alike without providers and manufacturers messing it up. Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.

Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.
Click to expand...
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It's not that simple.

Of course
seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain.

Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.

And I have no problem at all with Opera Mini, except Flash ... but for that, I use SkyFire or YouTube app.
Opera Mini would be my top app to port to WP7 ... because I doubt the new IE is good to use.
vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and Opera have their own engine. They still have not even released their Android port. Opera Mobile on WP7 is not going to happen anytime soon.
Same for lots of other things that heavily rely on native code or are hard to port over.
Sorry, guys. It's just not that simple.

A WM/Android User's Take

1st off this is not intended to be a flaming / bashing thread. If you want to do that please go elsewhere; I'm sure the vibrant forums will welcome you. If a MOD feels this belongs somewhere else, please move it.
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Interface - Finally something completely new and wonderful. Microsoft really did hit a homerun on trying to make information at a glance approach. Mail and search apps look beautiful. I thing missing, being able to quickly jump to apps in the app menu.
Lack of Landscape Support- For as great as the UI is I am shocked at the lack of landscape support. The start menu, app menu, nor Zune have lanscape support. You can not even refresh a webpage or type in a website if you are in landscape mode. Calling this anything other than an epic "FAIL" by microsoft is sugar coating it. Especially when the HD7 and Surround beg to be in landscape mode with their kick stands.
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Zune - Wonderful if you have a Zune Pass. Honestly it was one of the main reasons why I bought this phone. I expected it to be awesome and it didn't disappoint. That being said they need to add a Play Now option to the market songs. When I'm browsing the market sometimes I want to queue songs and the Add to Playlist option makes sense but how could you leave out Play now? Seriously?
Another thing I don't like is I can not fast forward to a certain spot in a movie. Video files can be hours long, why should I have to hold the fast forward button to get to the point I'd like. Let me hit the progress bar and then use the rewind / fast forward buttons for getting to the exact point.
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone. I know I could get an audio cable and do the same, but while driving it is so much easier to use the radio head unit to control music rather than your phone. I knew this when getting in bed with WP7, but that doesnt mean I still can't miss it.
Bluetooth- for music works just like it should. however it will not play the audio from video files threw bluetooth. It keeps coming out of my phone's main speakers and there is no way to get into the bluetooth profiles to see if something is wrong. VERY ANNOYING MS. get to fixing it.
People- Wonderful. Could anyone ask anymore? I gave it my facebook and gmail accounts and I didn't have to worry about any contacts not showing up. Love the Facebook updates also.
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Announced fixes- Flash, Copy & Paste, Turn by Turn navigation can't come soon enough but I am glad microsoft acknowledged they needed them.
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Overall- I bought my HD7 without a contract and I am pretty sure i will NOT be returning it. I love my HD7 and WP7, however this OS isn't entirely complete. That being said was iOS and Android complete when they came out? To even suggest that is laughable. I can not wait for microsoft to release all the fixes for this OS because when it does it will be a powerhouse.
I will not buy that this phone is for dumbsmart phone users. I probably done more with my phones than 95% of android users who will do nothing by bash WP7 and i honestly see this for ALL users. It helps bring the powerhouse experience in an easier way without being tied down as much as iOS.

Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.

N8ter said:
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those threads became nothing but flaming / bashing threads. I thought it would be a good idea to try to get away from that.
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
I thought it was annoying not being able to get to the address bar with all that screen space.

I don't know about you guys but my Surround goes into landscape mode IE just fine...
The only thing I don't like is lack of landscape in marketplace and Zune...
also if you want a nice photo editor, Thumba photo editor for $.099 is awesome!
EDIT: Oh i see. I can't believe I have to switch to portrait to type a URL!! WTF microsoft!

jz9833 said:
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree with just about everything you said. Regarding the browser, I've noticed that certain areas of webpages are zoomed in more than others. For instance, on xda, the text of people's posts is HUGE compared to the buttons such as User CP, etc. at the top of the page. What I've found is a double tap in my area of interest on a page will zoom the page so that ONLY my area of interest is approriately sized. Then, when I want to switch to another part of the page, I double tap there and the page will resize, and so on. The text does not dynamically reflow a la Android, but I think it's a pretty usable system.
-R

jz9833 said:
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???

rruffman said:
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.

jz9833 said:
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.

N8ter said:
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree. Basically system is made of apps.
If email app built into it is buggy, we can say OS is buggy.

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you are going to have to disagree with almost all people. This isn't a techy vs jock debate. These are apps which are built into the os and therefore part of the os.
But anyway this thread is meant for objective evaluation of WP7. If you want to continue this debate we should continue it somewhere else.

jz9833 said:
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use search in the people hub for something very similar. Admittedly not an exact substitute but it works well enough for me.

jz9833 said:
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post
jz9833 said:
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
jz9833 said:
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do it this way, then you are working with two sets of data (email, calendar, tasks, contacts, etc.) neither of which is guaranteed to be up to date. I don't see why people think this is preferable to a server-based system.
jz9833 said:
I will not buy that this phone is for dumb smart phone users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully this will be true; I will keep my fingers crossed. Currently, as I see it, they are targeting people who don't understand what files are, and would be confused by files, and who believe that music consists of songs arranged by artists into albums. I.e. the dumb mass market.

CSMR said:
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.

The Gate Keeper said:
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how about an MP3 cd? to play in your car? to lend to a friend? or your USB stick? as soon as it's available on zune desktop you have a copy of it... there is plenty ways around it. i'm not saying you should do it, i'm saying the possibilities are there.

N8ter said:
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the files are not DRMed, and Microsoft wants to protect them, either it can DRM the files, or it can keep them in isolated storage. The existence of common storage doesn't exclude isolated storage.

Where the hell is windows live messenger???

You would think Microsoft would create this application as a priority. Jesus, even my blackberry has WINDOWS LIVE!
What the hell!

Yes that was quite puzzling.
I would have thought that it would be on there before it launched.

I'll laugh if AOL sticks an AIM client on the marketplace before Microsoft gets an MSN Messenger client up there. It's boneheaded moves like this that have defined Microsoft lately and it's why they went from almost owning the smartphone market to being in a position where they may never be able to catch up.

Did ya'll look on the marketplace??? There is a live messenger there. The company that made isn't microsoft but they got paid by ms to do the app and it's the official messenger app...
Dont really get the confusion

BIG-Stan said:
Did ya'll look on the marketplace??? There is a live messenger there. The company that made isn't microsoft but they got paid by ms to do the app and it's the official messenger app...
Dont really get the confusion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TRUST ME IF THAT POS APP WAS REMOTELY PRACTICAL I WOULD HAVE USED IT.
Pretty much the "in and out" phone is just keeping me out from using my phone! Seriously this OS has immense potential but the launch was seriously half-assed, I would have been happier if they had delayed the launch window to early next year.
This is going to give a bad impression to many early adopters, let's not forget the issues with supply.

ManicDVLN said:
TRUST ME IF THAT POS APP WAS REMOTELY PRACTICAL I WOULD HAVE USED IT.
Pretty much the "in and out" phone is just keeping me out from using my phone! Seriously this OS has immense potential but the launch was seriously half-assed, I would have been happier if they had delayed the launch window to early next year.
This is going to give a bad impression to many early adopters, let's not forget the issues with supply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know...I've played with the phones now quite a bit and really like the polish and features...yes, there are some glaring features missing but they will be added. I was told at an MS kickoff meeting earlier this week that they are going to have a ton of updates starting in January...they kept saying they are betting the farm on this so we'll see...
I would agree on the marketing front however...I don't understand how they can do such a good job with xbox360 marketing and do such a half assed attempt with the wp7 which is arguably more important to them in the long term.

They must be working on a native WLM. They make one for iPhone and Blackberry. They have produced a version for 3 on Android, which a third party coded.
It plugs into Yahoo Messenger too. Plus WLM now talks to Facebook Chat. They are rolling out that feature as we speak. But only a few people have it right now.
Maybe they will release WLM at CES. I can imagine Ballmer and Zuckerberg make an announcment together. Or at Mobile World Congress at the latest.

Maybe they were waiting for Microsoft Lync, which is apparently coming to Windows Phone in 2011. I just hope that, whatever it is, its a native app and ideally integrated into the OS.
Was just doing some reading about Microsoft Lync, sounds perfect...
Add Contacts and Share Presence and Instant Messages Users can add contacts on Windows Live, AOL, Yahoo!, and Google Talk networks to their contact list. With the Communicator “14” client, users can share presence status information and participate in instant messaging with colleagues and customers who use public IM connections.
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Click to collapse
http://lync.microsoft.com/en-us/Product/Technologies/Pages/public-im-connectivity.aspx

you can go to live.com and use the web messenger from the menu-> messenger option
peace

The Zune HD Live Messenger only came out last month and had Facebook chat integrated. They're probably working on it.

What on earth are you talking about??? Messenger was available from day one and was one of the first apps I downloaded! its made by another company though. not microsoft. have a proper look or bing it in market place.

davidebanks said:
What on earth are you talking about???
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There's no need to be like that when evidently you haven't read all the posts. We know there's a messenger but it's not an official one and as such it doesn't do the job for the OP and others.

But it wont get more official. I read somewhere that the company that made the current wlm was paid by ms to code the app as an official one.
I'm pretty sure though that it will get updated with more features. The current version certainly lacks some features compared to the ios version.
ps: here is the link to the article
http://www.liveside.net/2010/10/14/whos-building-the-official-messenger-app-for-wp7-not-microsoft/

Microsoft has often asked other developers to make app for them like the facebook one on winmo 6.5 but they would always mark it as an official MS app, so if that company is in charge I'm sure it would be a different version without their name on it.
That aside, I can't see Microsoft developing a WLM app for Zune HD and an awesome one for the iPhone and then not make one for their own platform. Doesn't make any sense.

Pretty sure we will see something soon enough that surpasses the cheesy app that is out now.

Why the hell would MS pay somebody to make the messenger and not provide them with the ability to have it run in the background?
I have read the same articles, and it smells rather off to me.
Personally, i cant wait for a better one. (or the existing one to get out of pre-alpha phase, coz that's how bad it is)

what dont you guys get? the official app is the one on the market. microsoft just paid another company to make it.

kiloah said:
what dont you guys get? the official app is the one on the market. microsoft just paid another company to make it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Messenger by Miyowa"? What don't we get? Well, for starters, how you managed to use it to message anyone. That thing is rubbish, I can't imagine Microsoft let anyone put that thing out in their name and, last I checked which was about 45 seconds ago it was the only IM app in the marketplace.
The app doesn't have to run in the background. Beejive and IM+ for iPhone worked quite well before iPhone supported background operation and it worked via push notification. I think they both support background execution now but why bother when push works so well? That's memory freed up to use for something else.
Finally, a really half-assed solution that works is the SMS / IM interface most carriers provide. Some only do AIM but some cover them all. Do a google search for your carrier. AT&T, for example, uses SMS numbers starting with 265000 to log in and so on. If you're really that hard up for IM it's better than nothing, but just barely.

People are funny in this world.
In theory this OS is a platform for the community to build on.
Too bad the community is a mob with pitchforks.
Who in their right mind will develop anything when the populous will undoubtedly attack their creation?
Microsoft can't fix people. Why does anyone need messenger when all they do is hate on everything new?

I read that news about this third party company and I have a strong feeling that it's false. There is no way, that MS which created official messenger app for every other platform would outsource something so native to an unknown third party company for the windows OS!
I have a feeling that was a fake news spread by that third party company.

Lack of demand?!

Hey guys!
I have an iPhone 4 and a Droid. Both have PingChat App, that I use a lot with my friends (wether cause almost everyone has an iPod, or they just don't want to use their texts with me). I don't have WP7. Yet. They have not been released in my country.
Whatever; I sent an e-mail to Enflick (PingChat's developers) if they have plans to WP7 app too.
The answer:
"At the moment I haven't heard of any plans to develop for WM7. Mainly due to the lack of demand it has shown."
Is the demand of WP7 that bad?!
I'm so in love with it ;/
Thanks!

mikeeam said:
Hey guys!
I have an iPhone 4 and a Droid. Both have PingChat App, that I use a lot with my friends (wether cause almost everyone has an iPod, or they just don't want to use their texts with me). I don't have WP7. Yet. They have not been released in my country.
Whatever; I sent an e-mail to Enflick (PingChat's developers) if they have plans to WP7 app too.
The answer:
"At the moment I haven't heard of any plans to develop for WM7. Mainly due to the lack of demand it has shown."
Is the demand of WP7 that bad?!
I'm so in love with it ;/
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I think demand now is Normal. Android started much worse than WP7. After a year I hope, that we will have a well developed market and much more features :] Well, many developers don't create apps for WP7, because it's just a start for them, but we will get better soon ;D

This time of the year (right after Christmas), demand will be much lower. Just wait a bit and people will be back to their normal shopping routines.

I've read somewhere that on the iPhone the most popular application, Angry Birds, was purchased by 10% of the user base. If there are two million WP7 devices out there, this means that the maximum a dev should expect is 200000 downloads, and most likely it'll be much less than that. So of course demand is not at the level where one should expect fast payback for serious development investment.

Maybe developers don't think it will pay off in the end for them.
I think there is a decent demand for it right now. It seems like more big names are being drawn to the platform. I am just happy that a Flickr app is coming to the platform soon, and they didn't need people to convince them to make an app.

mikeeam said:
Hey guys!
I have an iPhone 4 and a Droid. Both have PingChat App, that I use a lot with my friends (wether cause almost everyone has an iPod, or they just don't want to use their texts with me). I don't have WP7. Yet. They have not been released in my country.
Whatever; I sent an e-mail to Enflick (PingChat's developers) if they have plans to WP7 app too.
The answer:
"At the moment I haven't heard of any plans to develop for WM7. Mainly due to the lack of demand it has shown."
Is the demand of WP7 that bad?!
I'm so in love with it ;/
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I emailed them as well, indeed same response... too bad.
But I emailed whatsapp as well, stating that there is a way to access all the contacts by simply parsing the mobile website of contacts.live.com and go trough all the pages or a bit more of a hassle and use the live contact apis. Now They said in a response that they MIGHT investigate this possibility... does not seem to promising yet though.
Although whatsapp here is overtaking pingchat, pingchat is losing due to lack of support of other platforms in early stages. Whatsapp does and integrates with the phone contacts.
So it should be possible for them to easily acces the contacts and copy them to the phone, run a check if contacts changed if so modifie them on the phone as well. These apps seem not too difficult too make, so if they really want to make more money they should consider accessing the cloud for the contacts data.
but probably they wont, at least for a while. I convinced some iphone users to use textme, which seems to be comming to android and bb as well. However the push notifications are just highly unreliable on wp7 while on iphone they are instant. Which is pretty annoying

This is bad ;/
I never ever touched a WP7. Microsoft decided to bring to my country (Brazil) just second half of the year. I'm managing a way to buy one from another country
Is the notification slow?
Ah, a doubt: in iPhone you can't replace your default message app (at least, you can't download any from AppStore, just jailbreaking). Android lets user replace home, dialer, message app, etc.
WP7 lets the user to replace default system apps to third apps?
E.g.: Handcent SMS is way more powerful than defaults app!
The quick reply with the bubble thing is awesome. Just like BiteSMS for iPhone.
Does WP7 anything like this?
Thanks

mikeeam said:
This is bad ;/
I never ever touched a WP7. Microsoft decided to bring to my country (Brazil) just second half of the year. I'm managing a way to buy one from another country
Is the notification slow?
Ah, a doubt: in iPhone you can't replace your default message app (at least, you can't download any from AppStore, just jailbreaking). Android lets user replace home, dialer, message app, etc.
WP7 lets the user to replace default system apps to third apps?
E.g.: Handcent SMS is way more powerful than defaults app!
The quick reply with the bubble thing is awesome. Just like BiteSMS for iPhone.
Does WP7 anything like this?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Android "lets" you to replace them, by leaving the old one and installing the new one. And then the old one has to be installed too, to get handcent or any other messaging app working. That's ****. MS doesn't let that and I think that default apps are very good and much, much better than Android's

the notification is not slow normally about 2 seconds. However its unreliable, sometimes it wont send the messages and you receive them 20 minutes later. There are more people with these issues http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/67673.aspx I think you can assume that MS will fix this, since its a key feature of their OS and since as far as I know, it works fine with email, sms, call, etc. Just third the party apps have problems, I think.

mikeeam said:
Is the notification slow?
Ah, a doubt: in iPhone you can't replace your default message app (at least, you can't download any from AppStore, just jailbreaking). Android lets user replace home, dialer, message app, etc.
WP7 lets the user to replace default system apps to third apps?
E.g.: Handcent SMS is way more powerful than defaults app!
The quick reply with the bubble thing is awesome. Just like BiteSMS for iPhone.
Does WP7 anything like this?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It is actually pretty quick to be honest.
I don't think you want to replace the default messaging, it does what you want it to. Just about every system default is up to par. Don't know why you would want to do that.
Android lets you do that because Handcent is considered better than default messaging, well default messaging is kind of bad (it keeps telling me send failed and something about force closing). And downloading a third party for email is kind of a given because the default email is terrible for anything not named gmail.

Yeap, I was just wondering. Apple doesn't allow it. So neither WP7?
Or just because you don't want to?
Bleh. So freaking anxious to buy one ;/

mikeeam said:
Yeap, I was just wondering. Apple doesn't allow it. So neither WP7?
Or just because you don't want to?
Bleh. So freaking anxious to buy one ;/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't think you would need to. To be honest, messaging on WP7 is already top notch. It is simple and not in your face unnecessary. Although a nice feature would be reply from a popup, but I don't think there is a big demand for it right now.

Yeap. Apple doesn't have it. Neither Android (though it can be done just installing app from market).
They are not worried about it. And this is not reason to not buy it ;P

Microsoft release the restrictions!

I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!

MS listens to their customers DDDD

What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.

PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express

PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.

I don't feel the need for any of those.
Internet Explorer is superb and the office applications are better than any i've used on other platforms.

doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never.
------

doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP

doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of putting out a quality product from the get-go was to eliminate the need for all of this excess garbage. I replaced that crap on Android because the default stuff was garbage. This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Also third party browsers can very well created but no one has put forth the time to build a new rendering engine solely for WP7.

ratchetjaw said:
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.

The OP is right.
Even if "IE9 is the best" (and there is no such thing) people love options. I am having a hard time giving up Android fully because there is no real cross platform chat option in WP7. No whatsapp. No Skype. These programs have millions of users. The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7. I used that all the time on my HTC Touch WinMo phone.
The NoDo update is so trivial in my mind. The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Then I will be happy....er.

nicksti said:
The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more APIs... word around is MIX 2011 will introduce devs to more WP APIs (hopefully sockets is one of them)
and multi tasking is the mango update coming fall 2011 (septemberish?)

nicksti said:
The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.

emigrating said:
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh okay my bad. I don't know all of that detailed stuff lol

Well WP7 has only one browser and few skins. Rendering is identical with all the good and bad consequences.
I am not asking you guys to need other options but it is sick that it's the only platform which still has no options. I like IE very much but I miss Opera Mini server rendering for fast browsing in worse coverage area. And I have few pages IE misses big time. No flash etc.
As for the Office, other platforms have DocsToGo which kills Office with one finger.
And now Softmaker will make Office for Android...
The Word implementation on WP7 is my huge disappointment. Almost featureless app.
It's the first time for 4 years I have to use PC to make basic editing like font style changing or inserting a tablet.
The same with email. The MS email client is so nice but at the same time is a pain. Not able to delete quoted message? Bummer. And very very often I don't see the pictures loaded or even worse, attachements don't show up so Ihave to open my email in the browser.

z33dev33l said:
This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It sounds like a person who likes to have a choice, especially compared to other platforms. And have had it previously.
WP7 is very far from perfectly functional device. We don't live in a camp where is only one truth for all. Accept the diversity.

emigrating said:
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?

Blade0rz said:
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That isn't a restriction, its an API that hasn't been implemented yet. There is no policy that limits people to Http Request and there is no switch they can flick to quickly enable it, outside of giving people access to the native APIs.
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.

PG2G said:
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
Read this:
http://wmpoweruser.com/surfy-alternate-ie-shell-for-wp7-having-a-hard-time-getting-to-market/
This was just about the new broswer UI..

nicksti said:
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Li'Messenger was removed a day or two after release. No official confirmation as to why, but I'm guessing because it accessed the Live servers directly thru unsupported APIs. Rumors have it they are bringing out a new version adhering to the Live EULA though.
Messenger by Miyowa had an update just a couple days ago which made it a lot more stable. It's still a very basic app though and I definitely wouldn't suggest you run out and get a new WP7 device because of it.
TBH though, I don't think Messenger in a larger capacity will work properly on WP7 until we get a native client (apparently not going to happen) or the OS allows apps to multitask (H2 '11 - so Dec 31st ). Even with live tile or toast notifications it's too cumbersome to use for anything but quick messages due to load/login times etc.