Develop Bugs

no extra browsers?

looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599

No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...

A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.

seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...

C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.

I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)

C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.

Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.

C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.

C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make some musical ones, to live up to your name!

Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.

No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!

Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.

C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform

havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm

It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.

vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money

Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.

Why take WP7 over android?

Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?

Meatballs said:
i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other words, it has everything android has and then some - namely, UI you like. Sounds like a reason.
I personally will most probably go to WP7 via Android as WP7 most probably won't be available here for a while, and I never start a new year without a new phone. But that'll be a temporary stop. Android for me is like buying a Ford. It may be a great deal but I just couldn't possibly love the thing.

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for me xbox live and the gaming & android was never an option for me since it just felt boring when i pick it up, i was thinking about the evo until i used it & after that i realized that i just dont like android. for you tho im not sure what your into, but silverlight should bring some amazing apps that other platforms cant match supposedly
thats all i have since i never owned an android phone I wont speak to much on it

Meatballs said:
Hello everyone!
I just have a quick question, Why should a person take a Windows Phone 7 over an android Phone? I like the UI of WP7 but i can´t really say that I find anything else worth having that android does not already have.
I am a normal/amateur-flasher user, what does WP7 give me and others like me that android doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a spec list is important to you, Android is your choice.
If a seamless experience with a responsive UI is more important, WP7 is the better option. WP7's spec list will grow over time (probably rather quickly). It provides the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone while giving you the carrier and hardware choice of Android.
So at this point, it really depends on what you value more.

1) Hubs - WP7 is an information centric OS vs Android, which is app centric. Hubs allow you to have all of the information and applications that you need one click away, instead of jumping in and out of apps continuously.
2) Games - Xbox Live is the largest and most poplar gaming platform ever. Games will integrate into Live and will allow you to play fantastic games online, and most likely cross-platform. (Probably not until v1.1)
3) Music - Every WP7 is a Zune HD. The Zune interface is integrated and beautiful, much better than music on an iPhone (IMO) and undeniably better than the music experience on any Android Device.
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
5) Other random tidbits -
Applications are super super easy to create (I'm taking hours instead of weeks), thus developers will jump on this, and lots of apps will be created.
Hardware minimum is very high, 1ghz snapdragon, WVGA, and 5megapixel cameras are the min (but the platform supports much higher specs).
Large phone selection! Almost all phone manufactures have signed up to make a windows phone, and you will find a couple on every carrier guaranteed.
Lastly, Android is free! this means its likely we will be able to duel boot on a WP7 device, but you will never be able to do this on an android device
Somebody help me out, this is all i could think of off the top of my head. Hope it helps

For me: the clean interface, Live (and Xbox Live) integration and Zune Pass.
I've tried Android and didn't really like it. In a post-iPhone world I don't think it cuts the mustard, it's basically Google's take on Symbian/WinMo.

I like these arguments...
Keep them coming

- Uniform design language for applications
- Better business model for distribution applications
- Trial API for letting users try-before-buy
- More strict hardware requirements (= easier to write apps)
- Larger coverage of paid apps in Europe
- Zune integration
- Xbox integration
-- Xbox achievements (oh yeah!)
- No fragmentation in OS updates
- Supports OTA updates from version 1
- Better design and development tools (Expression Blend and XNA Studio specifically)
- Support for vector graphics
- Windows Live integration
- Cloud storage
- Automatically ("it just works") sync with the PC.
- Best platform for creating mobile games
- Hubs
I could go on, but what I think is really important, is that application and games development is easier than on any other platform. It's more rapid, with larger amount of tooling.
And this means more than people think.
Combined with the good business model for using the marketplace, the market will thrive. Which iPhone proved to be a really killer point.
Apps and iTunes are two points contributed large amount of the iPhone's success. It's scary how little Google cares about these two points for Android.

sprinttouch666 said:
4) Social Networking - Facebook and Twitter are integrated into your contacts (Similar to the Facebook updates for each contact in Sense for Winmo but much better). All of the social networking updates are also integrated into the People hub, and you can comment and such w/o even opening an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}

Agent Zach said:
All of your points are well "supported" though there is one flaw with the above quoted statement..
As of right now, Twitter is kinda' denying Microsoft access to certain functions of the TwitterAPI [not fully], thus the Twitter Integration with the new Windows Live Essentials Suite is still... pretty much useless.
And to my knowledge, Microsoft hasn't fully announced 'out-of-the-box' Twitter Integration, as they have with Facebook Integration...
And to make a stand-point in this thread:
Why will I choose Windows Phone 7 compared to the other available Mobile OS's? Because I like being a Tech-Guinea Pig. Testing is fun, especially when it comes to products from Microsoft. I've only been disappointed with Windows ME and Vista {Compared to what Vista was SUPPOSED TO BE <- Click to see}
Apple calls themselves innovators, yet all the do is polish a pile of sh*t (idea) and release it... if you polish sh*t, it's still sh*t... it just looks prettier. Microsoft is compressing this sh*t with 40 billion PSI and making, what looks to be, the most beautiful Diamond in the world.
{Figuratively speaking}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ops. Not sure what i was thinking, you are very correct about twitter. But, its time for M$ to blow that 3 year old polished turd out of the water with WP7!!!!
(P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Longhorn! I was 11 or 12 at the time!!! I'm gunna QQ all over again!! haha)

It was a minor error, so no biggy. I'm sure Microsoft will somehow introduce their Twitter Integration with an update of some-sort, assuming that they'll do "Client-Side" device updates, like they do with the Zunes.
I use both Facebook and Twitter, so both would be preferred, but if Facebook is all we can get 'out-of-the-box', then I guess I'll have to suffer.
[Actually, I don't mind.. I'm sure there will be a nice TouchTwit 7 App.]

Let me give you a real reason, instead of ****ty phone feature bullet point lists as above:
Android didn't go anywhere yet. Granted, while every app store has its rather tremendously huge share of **** applications, the respective share of good applications on Android is way smaller than in the Apple app store. Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent). Call WP7 minimalistic, but at least they're trying to go for a certain style and presentation, and that consistently. And even with third party applications, look at Facebook for Android, then at Facebook for iPhone. Maybe it's just me, but I want everything I use on the phone to be somewhat attractive. Now look at the upcoming Facebook integration in WP7. Unless you're absolutely disgusted by the Metro style, it looks way more attractive than the Android offering. This'll apply to a lot of future applications, too.
And with the easy and powerful programming environment available in WP7, you should see quite a bunch of decent and innovative applications. Because applications is where it's at in the end. An example: WP7 isn't even out yet, some guy is already demoing a panorama stitching application on Youtube, while there isn't even such a thing available for Android, and the platform's out since quite a while.
I've tried programming with the Android SDK, it was a pretty frustrating experience. Unless someone's a sperg or has tangible financial opportunities to be had (i.e. killer app or hired as Android developer), I don't see people giving it enough effort. As to be witnessed by current application quality.

Tom Servo said:
Android's UI is also so-so and not consistent in itself (the system itself, third party apps don't count, since they're never consistent)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
The amount of games available months before launch is also staggering.

^ your opinion only.
You have several FB and twitter apps to choose from on android, so your point there is completely bogus.

And they're all winners in terms of visual prowess and usability (note: sarcasm).
Windcape said:
And actually third party apps will be consistent in WP7, it's awesome \o/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want. I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software. Granted, it's kinda Metro-like, but still completely breaks the norm in relation to the system UI.

I'm aware it's possible, but it's common practice for UI developers from the .NET / Windows stack to stick to the design guidelines. The vast majority will be using the Metro design language, and utilizing pivot/panorama controls, and so on. (Except for games, of course).

Tom Servo said:
No they won't. Microsoft's obviously a gatekeeper on what it'll allow onto the marketplace and what not. But nothing forces you to keep within the Metro guidelines. You're dealing with Silverlight here, you can do whatever you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Tom Servo said:
I'm keeping a GPS logger on the backburner and am currently tinkering with a second UI for it based on the Zune desktop software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?

vangrieg said:
You are right, however, judging by all the demos so far, a lot of applications actually are very close to the standard. Simply because the Metro concept is pretty strong I guess. So we can at least reasonably expect a lot of "apps" that conform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
vangrieg said:
A GPS logger for WP7? Running in foreground all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That obviously relies on the application continuing to run on the phone, if you lock the screen. Sadly I couldn't test this yet, since the emulator locks up when you set a screen timeout and let it happen.
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Remains to be seen, if calls interrupt the application. Not sure how to initiate fake incoming calls on the emulator.

Tom Servo said:
I'm not opposed to custom UIs. But I very rarely see good ones. Hell, even myself am copying an established UI for **** and giggles, because most other things I've tried looked like **** in practise (I'd say I've at least a baseline talent in graphical design).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to beat a professional design, with some talent or not. People spend a lot of time on those for a reason.
Tom Servo said:
For that matter, the current templates shipped with the latest SDK don't match the system that well. They're close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They promised to supply Pivot and Panorama in the final version of tools, AFAIR.
Tom Servo said:
For some reason, Microsoft figured to write WP7 with Iris UIX, while giving us developers Silverlight instead, with clones of the various system controls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it was difficult to do it in Silverlight when it wasn't ready? Apart from that, you don't want a web browser done in C#.
Tom Servo said:
As for running in foreground, I don't see the problem in that. Personally, when I'm on my way with a bike, I have the phone stashed away in the backpack, so I don't need anything else running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use GPS loggers myself but always thought one of the core usecases was logging your track while you're using satnav.

I would not take any win oh no matter what version over Android. Personally windows phone 7 def.ly is a major upgrade but it still can't be compared to the open source Android. You will def.ly be by far more restrictive with win 7 ph, plus the apps market for WP7 can't be compare to the Android market.
Don't get me wrong WP7 is a total and competely new UI with a bunch of features that would def.ly be useful to some, but at the end of the day it's MS.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App

[Q] Will WP7 Support Skyfire

Before you start bashing me for starting this thread. Note Ive Search And Haven't Seen This Come Up Yet.
Now As Much As I love Skyfire, Im not seeing a whole lot of support for it from WP7. Someone Please bring me up to par with whats going on?
Heres the Only Info Ive found on this and its not much http ://support.skyfire.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5513

Skyfire could actually function reasonbly well on WP7 (due to the rendering being done by Skyfire's servers) and would be allowed by Microsoft. It's just up to Skyfire on whether they want to make it or not.

Ok thanks. I guess ill have to wait and see.

I read something awhile ago where SkyFire said they couldn't make a SkyFire version for WP7 due to lack of Native Code. I'm sure they could write their own code instead of just borrowing Microsofts, but that is where they stand now.

TriAxisFL said:
I read something awhile ago where SkyFire said they couldn't make a SkyFire version for WP7 due to lack of Native Code. I'm sure they could write their own code instead of just borrowing Microsofts, but that is where they stand now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know Opera said that but I hadn't seen Skyfire.
I don't really see why they couldn't. They don't do any rendering on the device. They have servers that pull the web page on your behalf and transcode it into a format that's pre-rendered and easier on the device. I would think this would be pretty easy in XNA or maybe even silverlight. Now a browser that actually decodes and renders the page all on it's own, yea that will be much slower without native code. It's a good thing the built in browser doesn't suck.

They could probably get a working version of skyfire on a device but it wouldn't have multitasking ability like IE does so why would anyone want to use it? I think they will eventually have multiple browsers but I think it'll be after multitasking is fully unleashed.

RustyGrom said:
I know Opera said that but I hadn't seen Skyfire.
I don't really see why they couldn't. They don't do any rendering on the device. They have servers that pull the web page on your behalf and transcode it into a format that's pre-rendered and easier on the device. I would think this would be pretty easy in XNA or maybe even silverlight. Now a browser that actually decodes and renders the page all on it's own, yea that will be much slower without native code. It's a good thing the built in browser doesn't suck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol haven't seen it.
Are you sure?
Lack of Opera Mini is another let down.
Do you know the source?

doministry said:
Lol haven't seen it.
Are you sure?
Lack of Opera Mini is another let down.
Do you know the source?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure of what?
Source of what? I didn't say anything that requires attribution...

i thought they were allowing for any third party browsers on wp7

deadwrong03 said:
i thought they were allowing for any third party browsers on wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they are. However, third parties are limited to using managed code (Silverlight and XNA) which would make writing a browser implausible if not impossible. However, with browsers that perform the actual page rendering on a remote server and basically send a capture of the page back to the phone to display, they should be able to make one just fine. Creating an HTML and JavaScript engine in C#, particularly with the limitations that WP7 has on top of that, would be out of the question.

RustyGrom said:
Sure of what?
Source of what? I didn't say anything that requires attribution...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh man, I was asking for the source of the Opera saying thy won't be able to make OperaMini for WP7!!

Where the hell is windows live messenger???

You would think Microsoft would create this application as a priority. Jesus, even my blackberry has WINDOWS LIVE!
What the hell!

Yes that was quite puzzling.
I would have thought that it would be on there before it launched.

I'll laugh if AOL sticks an AIM client on the marketplace before Microsoft gets an MSN Messenger client up there. It's boneheaded moves like this that have defined Microsoft lately and it's why they went from almost owning the smartphone market to being in a position where they may never be able to catch up.

Did ya'll look on the marketplace??? There is a live messenger there. The company that made isn't microsoft but they got paid by ms to do the app and it's the official messenger app...
Dont really get the confusion

BIG-Stan said:
Did ya'll look on the marketplace??? There is a live messenger there. The company that made isn't microsoft but they got paid by ms to do the app and it's the official messenger app...
Dont really get the confusion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TRUST ME IF THAT POS APP WAS REMOTELY PRACTICAL I WOULD HAVE USED IT.
Pretty much the "in and out" phone is just keeping me out from using my phone! Seriously this OS has immense potential but the launch was seriously half-assed, I would have been happier if they had delayed the launch window to early next year.
This is going to give a bad impression to many early adopters, let's not forget the issues with supply.

ManicDVLN said:
TRUST ME IF THAT POS APP WAS REMOTELY PRACTICAL I WOULD HAVE USED IT.
Pretty much the "in and out" phone is just keeping me out from using my phone! Seriously this OS has immense potential but the launch was seriously half-assed, I would have been happier if they had delayed the launch window to early next year.
This is going to give a bad impression to many early adopters, let's not forget the issues with supply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know...I've played with the phones now quite a bit and really like the polish and features...yes, there are some glaring features missing but they will be added. I was told at an MS kickoff meeting earlier this week that they are going to have a ton of updates starting in January...they kept saying they are betting the farm on this so we'll see...
I would agree on the marketing front however...I don't understand how they can do such a good job with xbox360 marketing and do such a half assed attempt with the wp7 which is arguably more important to them in the long term.

They must be working on a native WLM. They make one for iPhone and Blackberry. They have produced a version for 3 on Android, which a third party coded.
It plugs into Yahoo Messenger too. Plus WLM now talks to Facebook Chat. They are rolling out that feature as we speak. But only a few people have it right now.
Maybe they will release WLM at CES. I can imagine Ballmer and Zuckerberg make an announcment together. Or at Mobile World Congress at the latest.

Maybe they were waiting for Microsoft Lync, which is apparently coming to Windows Phone in 2011. I just hope that, whatever it is, its a native app and ideally integrated into the OS.
Was just doing some reading about Microsoft Lync, sounds perfect...
Add Contacts and Share Presence and Instant Messages Users can add contacts on Windows Live, AOL, Yahoo!, and Google Talk networks to their contact list. With the Communicator “14” client, users can share presence status information and participate in instant messaging with colleagues and customers who use public IM connections.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://lync.microsoft.com/en-us/Product/Technologies/Pages/public-im-connectivity.aspx

you can go to live.com and use the web messenger from the menu-> messenger option
peace

The Zune HD Live Messenger only came out last month and had Facebook chat integrated. They're probably working on it.

What on earth are you talking about??? Messenger was available from day one and was one of the first apps I downloaded! its made by another company though. not microsoft. have a proper look or bing it in market place.

davidebanks said:
What on earth are you talking about???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no need to be like that when evidently you haven't read all the posts. We know there's a messenger but it's not an official one and as such it doesn't do the job for the OP and others.

But it wont get more official. I read somewhere that the company that made the current wlm was paid by ms to code the app as an official one.
I'm pretty sure though that it will get updated with more features. The current version certainly lacks some features compared to the ios version.
ps: here is the link to the article
http://www.liveside.net/2010/10/14/whos-building-the-official-messenger-app-for-wp7-not-microsoft/

Microsoft has often asked other developers to make app for them like the facebook one on winmo 6.5 but they would always mark it as an official MS app, so if that company is in charge I'm sure it would be a different version without their name on it.
That aside, I can't see Microsoft developing a WLM app for Zune HD and an awesome one for the iPhone and then not make one for their own platform. Doesn't make any sense.

Pretty sure we will see something soon enough that surpasses the cheesy app that is out now.

Why the hell would MS pay somebody to make the messenger and not provide them with the ability to have it run in the background?
I have read the same articles, and it smells rather off to me.
Personally, i cant wait for a better one. (or the existing one to get out of pre-alpha phase, coz that's how bad it is)

what dont you guys get? the official app is the one on the market. microsoft just paid another company to make it.

kiloah said:
what dont you guys get? the official app is the one on the market. microsoft just paid another company to make it.
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"Messenger by Miyowa"? What don't we get? Well, for starters, how you managed to use it to message anyone. That thing is rubbish, I can't imagine Microsoft let anyone put that thing out in their name and, last I checked which was about 45 seconds ago it was the only IM app in the marketplace.
The app doesn't have to run in the background. Beejive and IM+ for iPhone worked quite well before iPhone supported background operation and it worked via push notification. I think they both support background execution now but why bother when push works so well? That's memory freed up to use for something else.
Finally, a really half-assed solution that works is the SMS / IM interface most carriers provide. Some only do AIM but some cover them all. Do a google search for your carrier. AT&T, for example, uses SMS numbers starting with 265000 to log in and so on. If you're really that hard up for IM it's better than nothing, but just barely.

People are funny in this world.
In theory this OS is a platform for the community to build on.
Too bad the community is a mob with pitchforks.
Who in their right mind will develop anything when the populous will undoubtedly attack their creation?
Microsoft can't fix people. Why does anyone need messenger when all they do is hate on everything new?

I read that news about this third party company and I have a strong feeling that it's false. There is no way, that MS which created official messenger app for every other platform would outsource something so native to an unknown third party company for the windows OS!
I have a feeling that was a fake news spread by that third party company.

MiX2011(12-14.04)-Will There Be Any New"additions" to wp7 ANOTHER UPDATE BEFORE MANGO

MiX2011(12-14.04)-Will There Be Any New"additions" to wp7 ANOTHER UPDATE BEFORE MANGO
The MiX conference is just around the corner and i thought that it would be interesting to see what the users think, hope, want software vise.....
On the other hand, maybe a new handset will be revealed or the new minimum requirements...
With certainty new api's will be introduced...
My hope is for another update in june-july...

The things I would like to see in this order:
#1 Open up APIs that use address book which will open the door for whatsapp and skype.
#2 Bug fixes.
#3 An improved way of delivering updates.
#4 More new features.

I expect announcements of other upcoming features which have not yet been announced.
I fully expect some of the API's to be opened up to developers.
Maybe an announcement of a smaller update which will come out before Mango.
I don't expect any phone announcements, but maybe some Nokia teasers? That would be pretty cool.

nicksti said:
The things I would like to see in this order:
#1 Open up APIs that use address book which will open the door for whatsapp and skype.
#2 Bug fixes.
#3 An improved way of delivering updates.
#4 More new features.
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I made a bit of a list myself. Well, it's kind of large: http://n8ter.wordpress.com
Skype is a bit meh for me.
There is more to gain by developing a good Windows Live Messenger integration with VoIP and Video Calling, in addition to Facebook Chat and Integrated Presence information in the People Hub. Add in Push Notifications, Group Chat, and File Transfer from the Office/Picture Hubs and it would be just perfect.
They need to add Tasks to Hotmail and add Task Synchronization to WP7's ActiveSync support.
The rest is in the link above. Don't want to bloat up the thread listing all my thoughts...
IE9 needs to be pushed out the minute it's done. Just upgrading IE would be considered a ridiculously big update to many users, and seriously... It would make tons of websites either usable, or much much easier to use.
A Basic RSS Reader integrated into the Platform (with configurable polling times and notifications on new items) would be nice. However, Windows Live allows you to subscribe to Blogs from there, so maybe that serves that purpose and you can just get this form people HUB.
They need to make Facebook Pushed, IMO. And add support for giving Push Notifications adn a counter on the People Hub tile when you get a new Direct Message/Facebook Message/Mention. Perhaps they can roll out Twitter support early.
I think it's pretty bad that they're holding back so much for one big update. I wonder how many people at Microsoft are actually closet iOS/Android users. They don't seem to be clued in much with the way they're iterating on the platform.

I expect nothing new so that I don't get disappointed again.

My wish list:
- ful Skydrive integration so all office documents can be synced
- Twitter integration in the people hub
- some way to allow zune streaming music and video not only to the XBox but to the WP7 devices as well

New apis like above said to make whatsapp available, youtube embedded vids working properly on all regions, bing maps merged with ovi so i can actually use maps, skydrive for office, taskswitcher and facebook im/private messages integerated in messaging app (a pivot next to sms would be cool) and people hub. Ill be a more than happy guy, will be all i need

Interesting if they will show anything we don't already know there.

Talks about NoDo and more Mango previews. Maybe a mention of some API, maybe, and that is all. Any bets?

N8ter said:
I made a bit of a list myself. Well, it's kind of large: http://n8ter.wordpress.com
There is more to gain by developing a good Windows Live Messenger integration with VoIP and Video Calling, in addition to Facebook Chat and Integrated Presence information in the People Hub. Add in Push Notifications, Group Chat, and File Transfer from the Office/Picture Hubs and it would be just perfect.
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One of the few times we agree 100%. MSN Messenger by Miyowa is not good enough. If MSN Messenger was as feature-rich as you described I would buy a WP7 phone tomorrow.

If there are no new APIs I will be very surprised. And if there aren't, as much as I love my Omnia7, I'm picking up an Xperia Play the very next day. I can understand not having some functionality, but not providing APIs to developers is just plain stupid.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express

blade0rz said:
if there are no new apis i will be very surprised. And if there aren't, as much as i love my omnia7, i'm picking up an xperia play the very next day. I can understand not having some functionality, but not providing apis to developers is just plain stupid.
Sent from my omnia7 using board express
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Click to collapse
+11111111111

Yep, the lack of functionality isn't what stinks. Developers can develop apps to fill those voids.
What stinks is the API blackholes in the platform. That pretty much makes this functionally is impossible to implement at the moment, and there is nothing you or any non-OEM/Microsoft developer can do about it.

You guys shouldn't really expect much in the way of new features. MIX is where the development platform was unveiled last year, I imagine any announcements will be centered around that.
I'm expecting a focus on IE9, hopefully some additional APIs like sockets (which they said has been the #1 request from developers).

vetvito said:
Talks about NoDo and more Mango previews. Maybe a mention of some API, maybe, and that is all. Any bets?
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I'll take the bet that you're 100% right. That's what they do with the 360, it's like "you won't want to miss our announcements" then they serve you the same old sh.. you already knew about.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

dkp1977 said:
My wish list:
- some way to allow zune streaming music and video not only to the XBox but to the WP7 devices as well
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Marketplace (or Zune > Marketplace) > Music > Find Music > Click on Album/Single > Click on Play icon next to album or single = Streaming music,

I mean streaming media that I have on my windows 7 PC.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

doministry said:
Interesting if they will show anything we don't already know there.
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Joe Belifore mentioned in a Channel 9 interview last week, that they will be revealing Mango features that they have not talked about before. Expect some major announcements. It was obvious that he was holding back some good stuff.

wheelerk said:
Joe Belifore mentioned in a Channel 9 interview last week, that they will be revealing Mango features that they have not talked about before. Expect some major announcements. It was obvious that he was holding back some good stuff.
Click to expand...
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Don't, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
This year, MIX will highlight Microsoft’s commitment to web standards and HTML5, build on the excitement for IE9, and showcase the future of the Windows Phone developer ecosystem. Plus, we’ll unveil what’s new for developers in the next version of Windows Phone.
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If they announce new features, great I've learned to keep expectations in check when it comes to WP7 though.
Edit: There are 13 sessions on the platform updates. That should mean a good number of APIs are coming our way.

foxbat121 said:
I expect nothing new so that I don't get disappointed again.
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same here....lol