Related
i tried to sign up deepfish but it has expired i have the cab someone posted but no reg key so.
is there any other browser that is similar to deepfish available for wm6
Yea it's called Picsel Browser. you can find it somewhere on here or google it
The beta version of Mini Opera has a very good page overview feature, which is a good step forward.
Browse to mini.opera.com on your phone or go to http://www.operamini.com/beta/
Picsel browser is really really bad. It was a good concept, but it really poor implementation.
The new Opera Mini beta does an ok job, but still being a beta, it is rather buggy.
I think the key issue here is WTF happened to deep fish? Microsoft pushed it aside and to the bottom of it's list like it does with ALL Windows Mobile stuff. Such a shame MS doesn't care more about the mobile market.
Deepfish wasn't anywhere close to release, it was a development "sneak-peak". I'm sure they're still working on it. As for Picsel, it was a great browser for it's time. Don't know why you think it was poorly implemented. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of what we require in a browser nowadays, but neither did any of the others when it came out. And as for Opera Mini, it only has overview and zoomed in modes, nothing in between, which makes it just as useless as all the current ones in my opinion. Still waiting for Opera Mobile 9 to come out.
I assure you, they have had how many months to make it work? And they haven't done anything with it...
Face it, MS doesn't care a bit about the mobile market, we will never see any real effort from MS. I'm pretty convinced they have 2 guys there that are their mobile development team, lol
I tried DeepFish months ago and it had some promise. But, MS would drag their feet on fixing the reported bugs. Also, the beta would not allow cookies even though this had been a priority request of the community. I dropped it due to lack of MS support.
GldRush98 said:
Picsel browser is really really bad. It was a good concept, but it really poor implementation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally disagree. Picsel browser is a fantastic piece of software and one of the first things I install after a ROM update. Not only does it to a bang-up job for daily browsing, but it is my default viewer for all documents, especially PDF and graphic files.
OP, seriously, give it a try and see for yourself... ESPECIALLY for docs.
GldRush98 said:
Picsel browser is really really bad. It was a good concept, but it really poor implementation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is it is a poor implementation , the software itself is amazing !
I've used this softawre in my E680i , no doubt , it is excellent when view M$ office document and PDF file .
So the problem should be Picsel never intend to release a general version of it's software , only for specific device ...
Ummm ... I wonder what it will looks like if a Hermes version is available .
Hmm... I don't get what the problem with Picsel is?! I never experienced any problems... No crashes, no memory errors. And I use it regularly especially for web-browsing...
i googled for Picsel browser but couldnt find any download links!?
mkmonkey: we hacked out the Picsel browser from a Samsung rom some time back, and there were any device compatible versions released. However, due to copyright reasons we were asked not to distribute it. I'm sure you'll be able to track it down though.
If you do find a copy on the board, please notify me so I or the other mods can delete it.
However, IMHO, I like it very much. There are other browsers, probably Opera or NetFront, that work more "robustly", but Picsel works nicely, and makes a good light doc viewer and pdf viewer as well, so all in, it's a good compromise. I used it for several months and it made my mobile browsing experience (on the Universal, VGA, with some hacks to make it a good deal sexier) significantly more enjoyable then Pocket Internet Explorer.
V
hmm ask not to distribute huh?
well, mabye u could send me a PM with a "hidden" link, when picsel isnt watching .
edit: nvm, found it.
Problem with Picsel is that it does not always create its own internet connection. On a XV6700, you have to open a connection first (by send/receive email or opening PIE) before launching Picsel. This is a pain to do every time. For this reason, I use it only when I need to view documents close up. Also does not seem to work with flash. Why WM devices still ship with such a crappy browser is beyond me when there are so many better alternatives, but with spotty flash support.
My biggest problem with Picsel was that when you scrolled, it did not render on the fly. You had to stop for it to display the new section of the page. Anyone have a version that did it properlY?
@obentou:
Problem with Picsel is that it does not always create its own internet connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I posted a workaround for that problem, maybe you're interested:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=277812&page=7
In that thread you find a small helper-program which you can bind to a key on your device to manually establish an internet-connection without having to start PIE.
shanetheclassic said:
Yea it's called Picsel Browser. you can find it somewhere on here or google it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think so, you remove the very good interface and you get a mediocre browser.
Regards,
Taguapire.
taguapire said:
I don't think so, you remove the very good interface and you get a mediocre browser.
Regards,
Taguapire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, what did that have to do with the sentence you quoted?
How do i use a proxy connection with the Picsel browser?
As far as I know Picsel does not support a proxy... Which is bad because most WAP flatrates depend on proxies... :-/
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...
C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.
Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.
C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make some musical ones, to live up to your name!
Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.
No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform
havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money
Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
MS listens to their customers DDDD
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
I don't feel the need for any of those.
Internet Explorer is superb and the office applications are better than any i've used on other platforms.
doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never.
------
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of putting out a quality product from the get-go was to eliminate the need for all of this excess garbage. I replaced that crap on Android because the default stuff was garbage. This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Also third party browsers can very well created but no one has put forth the time to build a new rendering engine solely for WP7.
ratchetjaw said:
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
The OP is right.
Even if "IE9 is the best" (and there is no such thing) people love options. I am having a hard time giving up Android fully because there is no real cross platform chat option in WP7. No whatsapp. No Skype. These programs have millions of users. The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7. I used that all the time on my HTC Touch WinMo phone.
The NoDo update is so trivial in my mind. The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Then I will be happy....er.
nicksti said:
The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more APIs... word around is MIX 2011 will introduce devs to more WP APIs (hopefully sockets is one of them)
and multi tasking is the mango update coming fall 2011 (septemberish?)
nicksti said:
The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
emigrating said:
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh okay my bad. I don't know all of that detailed stuff lol
Well WP7 has only one browser and few skins. Rendering is identical with all the good and bad consequences.
I am not asking you guys to need other options but it is sick that it's the only platform which still has no options. I like IE very much but I miss Opera Mini server rendering for fast browsing in worse coverage area. And I have few pages IE misses big time. No flash etc.
As for the Office, other platforms have DocsToGo which kills Office with one finger.
And now Softmaker will make Office for Android...
The Word implementation on WP7 is my huge disappointment. Almost featureless app.
It's the first time for 4 years I have to use PC to make basic editing like font style changing or inserting a tablet.
The same with email. The MS email client is so nice but at the same time is a pain. Not able to delete quoted message? Bummer. And very very often I don't see the pictures loaded or even worse, attachements don't show up so Ihave to open my email in the browser.
z33dev33l said:
This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It sounds like a person who likes to have a choice, especially compared to other platforms. And have had it previously.
WP7 is very far from perfectly functional device. We don't live in a camp where is only one truth for all. Accept the diversity.
emigrating said:
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Blade0rz said:
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That isn't a restriction, its an API that hasn't been implemented yet. There is no policy that limits people to Http Request and there is no switch they can flick to quickly enable it, outside of giving people access to the native APIs.
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
PG2G said:
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
Read this:
http://wmpoweruser.com/surfy-alternate-ie-shell-for-wp7-having-a-hard-time-getting-to-market/
This was just about the new broswer UI..
nicksti said:
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Li'Messenger was removed a day or two after release. No official confirmation as to why, but I'm guessing because it accessed the Live servers directly thru unsupported APIs. Rumors have it they are bringing out a new version adhering to the Live EULA though.
Messenger by Miyowa had an update just a couple days ago which made it a lot more stable. It's still a very basic app though and I definitely wouldn't suggest you run out and get a new WP7 device because of it.
TBH though, I don't think Messenger in a larger capacity will work properly on WP7 until we get a native client (apparently not going to happen) or the OS allows apps to multitask (H2 '11 - so Dec 31st ). Even with live tile or toast notifications it's too cumbersome to use for anything but quick messages due to load/login times etc.
the key to hacking this phone, as ive noticed, isnt getting a new os. ive paid attention and i think i know what to do. we need a new internet browser. if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality. what we need to do is make an html parser in java that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps). i think we should focus on getting this done.
Its a good idea but we have no way of uploading a new browser to the device.
X-15D9W8491 said:
the key to hacking this phone, as ive noticed, isnt getting a new os. ive paid attention and i think i know what to do. we need a new internet browser. if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality. what we need to do is make an html parser in java that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps). i think we should focus on getting this done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your post makes no sense.
First because that's not the key for hacking
Second cause java applications can't be invoked from javascript.
it does make sense @johnkussack
is does make sense. you can invoke a java app through js. quit criticizing me just because you dont know what youre talking about. and besides, what i meant to say (if this makes it easier to understand) is that we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser and a download is set off in javascript that bypasses anything written into the browser by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser and just making a new one and not being lazy. you of all people should know this makes sense because you programmed and app onto the kin! besides, the whole thing about hacking is to be optimistic or you never get it done and youre impeding development with stupid posts like your last. get a grip and post something important instead of that trash next time!
thats the point
WEM97 said:
Its a good idea but we have no way of uploading a new browser to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly my point. we could just create a new app like john did only we make it work like john obviously failed to do.
X-15D9W8491 said:
exactly my point. we could just create a new app like john did only we make it work like john obviously failed to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Forgotten~~~~~~~~~~~~
X-15D9W8491 said:
nonsense stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, you'r messing it all
Second, to run a java application you would need to have a java virtual machine (which kin has not), or interpretation for java applets (which kin has not).
Third, i do know what i talk about, cause i code in Java & Javascript.
X-15D9W8491 said:
is that we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser and a download is set off in javascript that bypasses anything written into the browser by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser and just making a new one and not being lazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here one could stop reading. Also you can call Kitt to try to hack it, but it may not answer.
So, do your work before saying that other have failed where you have no success either.
And if we could do that magic stuff, last thing we should do is care about a new browser, when you could just install opera for win ce. So all the topic is going nowhere.
johnkussack said:
First of all, you'r messing it all
Second, to run a java application you would need to have a java virtual machine (which kin has not), or interpretation for java applets (which kin has not).
Third, i do know what i talk about, cause i code in Java & Javascript.
Here one could stop reading. Also you can call Kitt to try to hack it, but it may not answer.
So, do your work before saying that other have failed where you have no success either.
And if we could do that magic stuff, last thing we should do is care about a new browser, when you could just install opera for win ce. So all the topic is going nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first, i havent had any success yet because those were plans. i havent tried this yet.
second, if putting on opera could help, why didnt you do it, "genius"?
if this thread is going nowhere then do me a favor and stop posting on it!
piss off
soninja8 said:
You sound like a smart-ass. You think its so simple that you decide to make fun of John. Without John we wouldnt have done anything by now so you should just shut it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that post was an a and b conversation between me and john so c your way out, dumbass. and you should shut it because you havent really helped at all, john has gotten me nowhere because i started from the beginning before i was part of this, and i need absolutely no input from you.
X-15D9W8491 said:
second, if putting on opera could help, why didnt you do it, "genius"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because we don't know how to do that yet.
I don't own this device, but a friend does. What happens if you download an exe or cab from the browser?
xboxfanj said:
I don't own this device, but a friend does. What happens if you download an exe or cab from the browser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It tells you the file type is not supported. Basically, you can't download something to the Kin that it isn't designed to handle.
X-15D9W8491 said:
that post was an a and b conversation between me and john so c your way out, dumbass. and you should shut it because you havent really helped at all, john has gotten me nowhere because i started from the beginning before i was part of this, and i need absolutely no input from you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
~~~~~Forgotten~~~~~
I am not taking sides here but you guys both have points. X has a really good idea though so at least try. show proof it dosent work then i will agree with you. Its a good idea but we dont have the means of getting into the KIN.
there comes a time
Code:
the key to hacking this phone,[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] as ive noticed,[/SIZE][/COLOR] isnt getting a new os.
This is a solid point. We should not examine the possibilities of a new operating system until we are able to work with the current one.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] ive paid attention and i think i know what to do.[/SIZE][/COLOR] we need a new internet [B]browser.[/B] if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality.
Maybe so. Though the current OS has many shortcommings of, you could definitely argue that none are as confining as the browser
Code:
what we need to do is make an html parser in java
I am not sure what you mean by this. My initial impression is that coding an HTML parser from the ground up in Java is far out of the scope of this project. Perhaps you will explain it's purpose in a later part of your post.
Code:
that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps).
I guess what you mean by this is to use the current browser's javascript interpreter to invoke the HTML parser. There are a few severe hurdles you'd have to overcome to do this.
First of all and from what I understand, the Kin's built-in browser is IE 6 for Mobile. Web developers and users alike agree that IE6, regrardless of it's environment is a very broken web browser. Despite this, it is still a full-featured web browser, at least by Microsoft's standards. So for the purpose of security, Microsoft has probably constructed the browser in such a way that code run in it will be heavily isolated from the rest of the OS. I know that exploits for IE6 are a dime a dozen but even most of those require more access to the device than we have. Our situation is compounded by the fact that, even as far as other mobile versions of IE6 go, the Kin's browser is badly crippled.
Second of all, assuming you could somehow invoke the Java code through JS, the Java code would still have to be interpreted and run using a Java interpreter which the phone lacks. Java is an interpreted language. What that means is that in the most basic sense, a Java application is comprised of a bunch of text files containing programmer code. When you 'run' a java application, what you are really doing is running a special program (called a Java INTERPRETER, what we've been talking about) that takes that programmer code and turns it into computer code that is capable of being executed. The interpreter is the part that the Kin lacks. Without it, the text files of programmer code that are the java application just look like ordinary text files to the Kin.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]i think we should focus on getting this done.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
...and unfortunately we've come to the end of the post. I have only talked about some of the preliminary issues with your project roadmap but IMHO they'd be pretty fatal to it's success.
Let me know if you'd like me to explain anything else to you. In the meanwhile, let's wait and see what more directed people like JK come up with.
Oh thank goodness, another post. Perhaps this one will explain some of the discontinuities that arose in the first post.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]is does make sense.[/SIZE][/COLOR] you can invoke a java app through js.
I am not aware of any way to do so, especially on as crippled a browser as the kin one. I've already kind of addressed this in the previous post albeit indirectly.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]quit criticizing me just because you dont know what youre talking about. and besides, what i meant to say (if this makes it easier to understand) is that[/SIZE][/COLOR]
I've decided to minify all the psychosocial turmoil content in his posts in order to make what I am referring to more clear.
Code:
we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser
This portion confused me for a bit as in the first post you talked about a Java HTML parser howerver now it seems to have changed to something that simply interfaces the current browser. Maybe this would be more within the scope of the project but you'd still have to get through all the aforementioned hurdles. Even so I'm not really sure what purpose it would serve.
Code:
and a download is set off in javascript that
Oh ok, here you are explaining how the Java code gets to the browser. You use javascript injection to make the browser download the Java application.
Code:
bypasses anything written into the browser
Now, this would be a real trick. Accomplishing this would be equivalent to acquiring a U-Boat by fishing in the toilet.
Code:
by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser
Another primary problem about your train of thought is that you seemingly assume that javascript is capable of doing debug-level computing tasks such as significantly modifying a compiled binary and perform priveleged filesystem operations. Stuff like this would be a pain in the neck to do even on a desktop computer with suited programming languages.
Code:
and just making a new one [COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]and not being lazy. [/SIZE][/COLOR]
Javascript is a language designed for the web, not general purpose and certainly not for creating another web browser from scratch. JS, like Java is an interpreted language except the interpreter is included in the web browser. I am not sure coding a web browser within a web browser would produce very desireable results, esp. with such limited processing power as is available on Kin hardware.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]you of all people should know this makes sense because [/SIZE][/COLOR]you programmed and app onto the kin![COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] besides, the whole thing about hacking is to be optimistic or you never get it done and youre impeding development with stupid posts like your last. get a grip and post something important instead of that trash next time![/SIZE][/COLOR]
hm. hm.
In conclusion, have a nice day.
In fact,iirc the Kin doesnt even have Javascript but JScript. Microsoft implementation, compatible with javascript itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript
The funny commands which could expose part of the system doesnt work, of course.
That's just weird
johnkussack said:
In fact,iirc the Kin doesnt even have Javascript but JScript. Microsoft implementation, compatible with javascript itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript
The funny commands which could expose part of the system doesnt work, of course.
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Click to collapse
ok. first, let's forget our arguments and move on, those have nothing to do with what we are trying to accomplish. Second, how related is jscript to javascript because microsoft always has to make weird implementations of porgramming languages. This could possibly be a minor setback. Third, i'll admit that some things I posted didn't make sense, so i'll make them more understandable in the future.
hello guys, I'm a little dissapointed, I've just found this website to test the html5 speed of your browser and WP7 is one of the worst in html5, try it in your phones, I've tested it on my samsung focus mango RTM and it scores 141 out of 450 points
h t t p ://www.html5test.com/
ps: maybe I'm wrong but..... now I don't know
It happened to me too. Maybe it depends on the connection.
I think so too.. Look at d videos on uploading onto on fb.. Freaking fast.. I can gwf it up half its speed if im lucky..
Sent from my LG Optimus 7
ok try to go to touch.facebook.com from a wp7 , and from an iphone or android or bada phone.. html5 in wp7 mango is very bad..
try in other sites like: m.gizmodo.com ... m.engadget.com..
don't blame the browser. Blame the site. They're not recognizing it's mango and sending you to the correct site. Once mango is released many they will send to the html5 versions.
Thats because IE9 in general is not that good in HTML5. Even the desktop version just gets 141 points. That will however change in IE10.
Yes, but for IE10 will have to wait 1 year!! ....
Stock browser on my tab 211 and maxthron mobile same 211...
jaiem said:
hello guys, I'm a little dissapointed, I've just found this website to test the html5 speed of your browser and WP7 is one of the worst in html5, try it in your phones, I've tested it on my samsung focus mango RTM and it scores 141 out of 450 points
h t t p ://www.html5test.com/
ps: maybe I'm wrong but..... now I don't know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are wrong. Its not a speed test.
Dude, this seems like a biased site to me. It's not possible that every single phone on every single connection, doing any number of background tasks like music, email, etc. scores a 141, It's like it recognizes it as IE and scores it as 141 no matter what. This is not a speed test.
thesecondsfade said:
Dude, this seems like a biased site to me. It's not possible that every single phone on every single connection, doing any number of background tasks like music, email, etc. scores a 141, It's like it recognizes it as IE and scores it as 141 no matter what. This is not a speed test.
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141 for both Mobile and Pc browser?
Just confirmed, pretty hard to believe though.
Creamy
Why do you guys judge the performance of a browser upon some random value spit out by a website rather than using the browser and seeing for yourself? I for one can claim that both IE9 for desktop (I still like Opera better though) as well as IE9 mobile are pretty fast.
It's not hard to believe. IE9 mobile uses the same rendering engine called Trident like the desktop version. Why should it be different? Even the Acid3 test scores 95/100 on both versions.
creamy said:
141 for both Mobile and Pc browser?
Just confirmed, pretty hard to believe though.
Creamy
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The test tests how well it complies to "standards", not how fast it is. Firefox renders the page instantly, while it takes Chrome 2-3 seconds and it still gets a higher score.
Something that is worth to remember when it comes when it comes to HTML5 and CSS3 is that it first of all isn't complete standards some of the points in that test might in fact only be suggested but not at all accepted to be a part of the HTML5 standard (yet).
There is also a lot of strong biasing towards the Webkit engine. It probably has something to do with Google pushing it and everyone knows that Google is the good guy, right? (rolleyes).. A very good example of this is http://i.reddit.com/. If you do some research on the CSS you will quickly note that it isn't written according to the W3 standard, but what I assume are something more like Googles standard.
Conslusion: Google is the new Microsoft when it comes to making up web standards.
www.html5test.com is not based on standards. MS has said that they will support HTML5 standards as they get finalized. Also, IE scores 95/100 on acid 3 because the other 5% is not yet standardized.
Consider a scenario where MS introduces support for a non-standard feature. Corporations and IT guys develop internal applications which use this feature. However, HTML5 standards group adopts a different version of the feature so MS has to change it. The IT guys mentioned above will have a nightmares.
Many internal apps developed and used within coporations depend on IE and Trident Engine.
Although Chrome scores high, in the past they have often abandoned fetures to adopt different standrds.
For long term benefits, we need proper HTML5 standard support and not get distracted by cool experimental features. IE9 is a very good browser. Don't let the numbers confuse you.
there are a lot of html5 websites that dont work on the mobile IE unfortunately, like he said touch.facebook.com does not work, also vimeo.com does not work as well as a few others. Its not as good as I expected it to be, and not that usefull as of now.
All we can hope for is that WP7 will be a recognised platform and companies will also test their mobile websites to work with WP7. If this happens it will be very usefull to have html5 support. Until that day Im happy the general rendering is improved and most sites render correctly now.
It seems as though touch.facebook.com is working just fine for me. It's not giving me the mobile version. The touch version automatically continues loading your news feed when you reach the bottom.
My IE9 is setup to show me the Desktop version of sites if that makes a difference to any of you.
morpheuszg said:
It's not hard to believe. IE9 mobile uses the same rendering engine called Trident like the desktop version. Why should it be different? Even the Acid3 test scores 95/100 on both versions.
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Because IE9 is hardware accelerated on HTML5... so unless the phone and pc have identical hardware, the score will be different.
Nor ACID tests, nor HTML5 tests are based ON SPEED but on FEATURES SUPPORT. Sir. Haxalot is right.
Desktop PC and IE9 on mango will score the same score, since they are THE SAME CORE.
Marvin_S said:
there are a lot of html5 websites that dont work on the mobile IE unfortunately, like he said touch.facebook.com does not work, also vimeo.com does not work as well as a few others. Its not as good as I expected it to be, and not that usefull as of now.
All we can hope for is that WP7 will be a recognised platform and companies will also test their mobile websites to work with WP7. If this happens it will be very usefull to have html5 support. Until that day Im happy the general rendering is improved and most sites render correctly now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for vimeo, just use the button "View in couch-mode" on top right corner in each video. Then it works. A bit inconvinient but a good workaround.