From what this guy says is to only let your battery cycle a few times then charge whenever it needs it and this will increase battery life cycle.
I can't complain I get pretty good overall battery life, although I would like to see what a replacement modded 2200-2500 battery would be like in this beast!
http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-tips-tricks/213618-lithium-polymer-batteries-101-a.html
Every phone I've owned after my Treo 300 has been powered by a Lithium Polymer battery, and I've seen the same misconceptions and incomplete or bad information about those batteries in the forums for every one of those phones including the Evo. Well I'm home sick and can't do much else besides cough, so I'm going to try to educate y'all a little.
And why do I think I'm qualified to do that? Well I just turned 60 and I've been actively involved with electronics, both as a hobby and professionally, since I was 10. I've also been a model (R/C) aviator for many years and rechargable batteries have played a huge role in both of those pursuits. I began using LiPo cells in my projects and planes long before they started appearing in consumer electronics. Not much was known about them back then and we were basically on our own to figure out what worked and what didn't and we also had to design and build our own chargers. Those were exciting times given LiPo cells' tendency to "vent with flame" when they aren't happy.
So without getting too technical, here are some things you should know about LiPo battery packs:
The single most important thing you need to know is LiPo batteries can explode. They actually "vent with flame" with a big woosh, but "explode" seems to be the most popular description. Perhaps the surest and quickest way to make that happen is charge them beyond 4.2V per cell. Modern consumer electronics have plenty of built-in safeguards in place to prevent that from happening, but some "budget" battery packs and chargers don't have all the safeguards. The other common reasons LiPo packs explode is excessive heat and physical damage. I've personally seen two cars which had phones explode on the dashboard and it wasn't pretty. I also saw an executive's desk after a phone exploded in a drawer nearly 12 hours after he rolled over it with his car. The technical name for the phenomenon is "thermal runaway" and the actual chances of it happening to you are pretty slim if you stick to name brand batteries and chargers and use some common sense.
And you never want to forget or ignore this simple rule: If a battery pack ever starts to puff up like a little pillow or change size or shape in any other way, treat it like a firebomb with the timer ticking. Take it outside and put it in your barbecue or a steel pail or something.
While I'm on the "vent with flame" rant I'd like to add this: Almost all modern cell phones (including the Evo) use a single-cell (3.7V) battery pack. The charging circuit in the phone will prevent you from overcharging it, but all bets are off if you remove the pack from the phone and charge it in an external charger. One very common way model aviators accidently blow up LiPo packs is by charging them with a charger set to a higher cell count, and this could happen to a cell phone battery if you were to try to charge it with a charger made for a camera, for example. The other way model aviators blow up packs is by charging them at a higher current rating than they're designed for. I mention this because it may not be a good idea to charge a stock 1500mAh battery with an external charger designed for a 3000 mAh battery, but I can't say for sure without knowing the charging current of the charger. It would be both safe and acceptable to charge a 3000mAh battery with a charger designed for a 1500mAh battery, but it would take twice as long.
Next, you never want to discharge a LiPo cell below 3V per cell. 3V is completely discharged for a LiPo cell and if you go below that voltage you'll do unrecoverable damage to the cell chemistry. Once again, modern consumer electronics have plenty of built-in safeguards in place to prevent that from happening, but it's not hard to do by accident or by design once the battery is out of the device. Put the battery in an external charger and unplug it, for example ... No, don't.
There is no practical reason to unnecessarily discharge or cycle a LiPo pack. All you'll accomplish is reduce the number of charge-discharge cycles the pack will be capable of before it begins losing capacity. LiPo packs don't develop a "memory" like the old Ni-Cad cells did and they'll last significantly longer if subjected to partial charge-discharge cycles than they will with full charge-discharge cycles. In layman's terms, your battery will last longer if you charge it whenever you can rather than wait until you have to all the time. Also, the capacity of new LiPo pack will usually improve after it's been through a few charge-discharge cycles, but the best way to do that is through normal use.
LiPo cells have a shelf-life and they basically begin to degrade on the day they're assembled. But they degrade faster if they're stored at full charge, so if you won't use a battery pack for a significant length of time (~2 weeks or more), discharge it about half way before you store it. You don't need to get real technical about this because close counts. Just use the battery until the gauge shows about half green.
And finally this, for those of you who are compelled to play with volt meters:
A fully-charged healthy LiPo cell will have a resting voltage of 4.2V, but the nominal working voltage is only 3.7V. As I mentioned above, these cells are completely depleated when the resting voltage reaches 3.0V so the entire working voltage range for a LiPo cell is only 0.7V nominal. In low-current devices like a cell phone the actual working voltage range is more like 3.85V to 3V, but that additional 0.15V doesn't really amount to much. So what happens to that voltage range between 4.2 - 3.7V? In the simplest of terms, it's just a surface charge of sorts. Even at low current loads the voltage will quickly drop to the nominal working voltage where it will hold pretty close to steady until the cell is about 80% depleated.
The graph above is a typical 6C discharge voltage curve for an average LiPo cell. 6C means the cell was discharged at a rate (in mA) that was 6 times the rated capacity of the cell (in mAh). In other words, if the cell was a stock 1500mAh cell for the Evo, then the discharge rate would be 6 x 1500 or 9000mA (9A). Needless to say, a cell phone will only draw a tiny fraction of that current which would affect the curve in the following way: The starting voltage would be more like 4.1V and it would quickly drop to around 3.8V instead of 3.6V. Then the voltage would gradually drop until it hit about 3.4V and drop from there relatively quickly.
And that is just about everything you need to know to get along with Lithium Polymer battery packs and then some. To wrap this up, here's a short video of what can happen if you mistreat a LiPo battery. Judging by the visual evidence, my guess is it's a single 2100 to 2500mAh cell:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU
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backfromthestorm
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Li-Ion & Li-Poly are the same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...olymer_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm learning this myself but it is good info for us since we can not take our battery and replace it.
This Google search shows the One X has Li-poly battery, many of pages good info the One X using Lithium Polymer Battery type, so that is the info I'm using.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie....,cf.osb&fp=3ca401bf196c59f0&biw=1920&bih=950
Specs here on XDA say its Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/HTC_One_X
Specification
Processor: 1500 MHz NVIDIA Tegra 3 AP33H
Operating System: Google Android 4.0.3 (ICS) with HTC Sense 4.0
Memory:
32GB internal
1024 MB RAM
Dimensions: 2.8 x 5.3 x 0.4 inches
Weight: 130g
Display:
Type: S-LCD 2 capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size: 720x1280 pixels, 4.7 inches
Gorilla glass screen
Multi-touch input method
Connectivity:
Bluetooth® 4.0 with EDR,A2DP,AVRCP
Wi-Fi®: IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Near-Field Communication
Micro USB Port
TV-out (via MHL A/V link, 1080p)
Camera: 8 megapixel color with autofocus, LED flash, 1080p recording, ImageSense Chip
Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
Network:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1)
Data: GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
READ DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer
Charging Li‑ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li‑ion or Li‑polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.
Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures. Read more about the Lithium-polymer battery and the Pouch Cell.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries
A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Interesting read, thanks
I've been using LiPo batteries for the last 5 years in my Trex 450, 500 & 600 along with my electric planes too... they are something like half the weight with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite ..... I've never had issues wity them providing they're used properly..
Really surprised they haven't taken over the LiIon batts in phones ....
Below is my Trex 600 using a 6 Cell 3000mAh LiPo with a 25C and a 35 burst rating ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw99SjxLdyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
Thanks for the info. Good to know so we don't let them get too hot also. About what temp are they good to before they aren't happy anymore?
Sent from my MoPho using XDA
[email protected] said:
I've been using LiPo batteries for the last 5 years in my Trex 450, 500 & 600 along with my electric planes too... they are something like half the weight with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite ..... I've never had issues wity them providing they're used properly..
Really surprised they haven't taken over the LiIon batts in phones ....
Below is my Trex 600 using a 6 Cell 3000mAh LiPo with a 25C and a 35 burst rating ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw99SjxLdyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's to be understood under: "with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite". Does that mean, for example, while it does have the same capacity as a none liPo battery that it actually still does pack more? I know, sounds contradicting but I think you know what i mean.
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
I also had some experience with batteries in many devices and i have only 1 thing to say to all of You - just use the device !
Everything that is important is already sorted out for You.
I personally think that batteries in HTC One X are very durable and treated like an egg by device itself, firstly HTC optimizing Sense 4.0, secondly Google`s Android is 4.0 not a beta 1.0, last thing is that the body of the unit acts like a radiator grill cooling down battery and CPU.
There is only 1 thing to look at, if u see that the phone is idling but its getting HOT, check for badly made application that uses the CPU and kill it.
Here are some more reading material for those who are interested in learning about Li-Poly batteries.:
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries
How to Charge - When to Charge Table
Is Lithium-ion the Ideal Battery?
Charging Lithium-ion
According to those guides its always better to do partial discharges and charge before the battry goes completely dead. That way you can prolong the lifetime of your battery. As a habit I normally don’t let my batteries discharge below 30% if I can help it. My previous Galaxy S used to have about 40% charge at the end of the day. I’m yet to buy a HTC One X, but hope it won’t fully discharge by the end of the day. Since One X doesn’t have a removable battery prolonging the life time is critical.
shadehh said:
What's to be understood under: "with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite". Does that mean, for example, while it does have the same capacity as a none liPo battery that it actually still does pack more? I know, sounds contradicting but I think you know what i mean.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it means density of stored charge, so for a given battery physical dimension and weight, a LiIon/LiPoly battery will have around 1/3 extra mAh than NiMh and NiCd.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
Some of these phones are getting pretty hot. I have read post of people getting up to the high 60c range here is some info that I just found that goes along with the temps that you are experiencing. If your cell is getting over 60c your battery will die out at a more rapid pace or more serious it could explode and catch on fire. HTC better be getting some fixes and updates out because this could be some big trouble if a reported fires would happen. So come on with those updates HTC.
CELL PHONE BATTERY PICTURE
backfromthestorm
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Li-Ion & Li-Poly are the same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...olymer_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So am I supposed to do any full cycle on a new phone or just start using and partial recharging ?
After reading all of that information I don't let mine go below half and the battery seems to be doing really good. The thing that caught my eye was on another site where they use the same type of battery in radio controlled airplanes is that you get about 500-600 full cycles with these types of batteries, but if you don't let it drain all the way it isn't considered a full cycle. So it would also seem the battery life would last longer and they also said not to use the phone while charging if possible, turn it off and charge.
What is the maximum reachable temperature for the One X battery? Sometimes it gets very HOT, i don't want my head to explode
drvsbsm said:
backfromthestorm
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
fridgie said:
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The electrolyte is stored in a composite polymer rather than an organic solvent. Otherwise they are pretty much the same; it doesn't change the charge/discharge characteristics or the energy density. You can even use the same charger. From a black box perspective, they are the same, it's just that with LiPo, your box has more options on shape and might be cheaper to manufacture.
Hi
drvsbsm said:
After reading all of that information I don't let mine go below half and the battery seems to be doing really good. The thing that caught my eye was on another site where they use the same type of battery in radio controlled airplanes is that you get about 500-600 full cycles with these types of batteries, but if you don't let it drain all the way it isn't considered a full cycle. So it would also seem the battery life would last longer and they also said not to use the phone while charging if possible, turn it off and charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A top up charge also helps because the battery has less time to heat up before it's full than it would with a longer charge from flat to full. Heat is a big aging factor of these types of batteries. Never charge the phone on the carpet or other soft furnishing which insulates them and causes more heat, and is a fire hazard, if you can charge them keeping the phone cool on something solid and nice and conductive for heat, for example a metal surface.
Of course while charging from 50% to 100% avoids a full cycle so you get more cycles, a big chunk of that advantage is cancelled out because you are only getting half the use of the battery each time and so are charging it twice as often, so overall while it helps to keep topping it up, I don't think anyone needs to excessively worry about this. Just use the phone
Regard
Phil
PhilipL said:
Hi
A top up charge also helps because the battery has less time to heat up before it's full than it would with a longer charge from flat to full. Heat is a big aging factor of these types of batteries. Never charge the phone on the carpet or other soft furnishing which insulates them and causes more heat, and is a fire hazard, if you can charge them keeping the phone cool on something solid and nice and conductive for heat, for example a metal surface.
Of course while charging from 50% to 100% avoids a full cycle so you get more cycles, a big chunk of that advantage is cancelled out because you are only getting half the use of the battery each time and so are charging it twice as often, so overall while it helps to keep topping it up, I don't think anyone needs to excessively worry about this. Just use the phone
Regard
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you get more cycles, charging 50% to 100% letting it drop to 50% then charge to 100% is one cycle.
50% - 100% = 1/2 cycle
but doing smaller charges means it takes longer before you start losing the capacity from wear and tear, but by the time i get any negative effect to charging my contract will be long up and ill be getting my self the newest shinny toy
i was i have htc Sensation and the bettery is better than HOX battery
i installed ARHD ROM & Faux Kernel UV
i don't see any improvments
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
fridgie said:
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm learning this myself but it is good info for us since we can not take our battery and replace it.
This Google search shows the One X has Li-poly battery, many of pages good info the One X using Lithium Polymer Battery type, so that is the info I'm using.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie....,cf.osb&fp=3ca401bf196c59f0&biw=1920&bih=950
Specs here on XDA say its Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/HTC_One_X
Specification
Processor: 1500 MHz NVIDIA Tegra 3 AP33H
Operating System: Google Android 4.0.3 (ICS) with HTC Sense 4.0
Memory:
32GB internal
1024 MB RAM
Dimensions: 2.8 x 5.3 x 0.4 inches
Weight: 130g
Display:
Type: S-LCD 2 capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size: 720x1280 pixels, 4.7 inches
Gorilla glass screen
Multi-touch input method
Connectivity:
Bluetooth® 4.0 with EDR,A2DP,AVRCP
Wi-Fi®: IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Near-Field Communication
Micro USB Port
TV-out (via MHL A/V link, 1080p)
Camera: 8 megapixel color with autofocus, LED flash, 1080p recording, ImageSense Chip
Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
Network:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1)
Data: GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
READ DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer
Charging Li‑ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li‑ion or Li‑polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.
Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures. Read more about the Lithium-polymer battery and the Pouch Cell.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries
A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Related
Hey guys, anyone knows if i have :
2 double AA wif 2700mah each that gives u 5400mah (using energizer energi to go) compared to lithium batt of 5000mah (using sanyo mobile booster double li on batt)
which one would be better at charging our high power consumption PDA eg. HTC touch HD?
It's not just about mAh
It's not just about the mah of the battery; you also have voltages to think about.
I have a good investment in 1.2v nimh batteries - so 2 of those would give me 4000mah if connected in parallel but only provide 1.2v of.... voltage. Then, consider your phone - it probably has a 3.7v lion battery. To get to the same total capacity and voltage, you would need to have 3 batteries connected in series (give you 3.6v or possibly a touch more if really full) to get close to 3.7v at 2000 mah.
I've built external packs for my Creative Nomad Zen (same type of battery, 3.7v 1000mah) using 4 aa batteries (4.8v, 2000mah.) The stock charger was 5v 1000mah, so it was close enough. A bit bulky, but it worked great in the car where I didn't want to buy a charger and already had the batteries. Of course, odd things can happen when the voltage of the "charger" goes below the expected input. As an extender for something USB Chargable, you could probably do the same thing with 4 batteries to simulate a charger and extend your runtime. I'd suggest "aaa" batteries to make the pack smaller.
Do not try this if you have no clue regarding electronics. You can hurt your phone, hurt yourself and light stuff on fire. And not in a cool way.
Sorry bro didnt quite understood ur conclusion here.. Wasnt electronics trained and educated haha. But anyway yah i do understand mah is not the main thing here..
But rather the voltage. So i would suppose a lithium works better at charging high power devices given approximately the same mah specs?
Alright; just so we're clear - your question is regarding whether a lion/cell battery will do better than another chemistry battery when powering a phone?
The real boom is power to weight. Look at a double a battery and compare that to your cell battery. Hold both of them - the lithium ones for a given capacity will be lighter and smaller.
Both could power a device like a cell phone for similar time, given the same capacity.
Hope that helps....
oh thx! that realli helps.. But however with regards to sanyo's website. 2x 2100mah enelop batteries could onli power a cell phone for 70mins. But its lithium 5000mah could power it for 2hrs! Doesnt that conclude that lithium gives more power given the same capacity?
Even same mah Li-ion is better than NiMH due to discharge characteristics. Li batteries lose very little voltage from Topped up to full allowable discharge. So has more usable power for a device that was built for nearly constant voltage like ours.
SUMMARY:
china1800, jindian1900 and andida1850 sold on ebay is a SCAM. The real capacity of these batteries is less then 1300mAH. Instead, for the same $10 on ebay you can get two spare batteries at roughly the same capacity and a charger. Capacity of newly available on ebay extended size batteries for captivate (cptvt3500_1) is also overblown, but for $10 a pop you get a battery with 2100mAH worth of juice. It is 40% improvement over stock
TERMS:
( See picture of the battery inside LiIonTester.zip file. Each tag below has corresponding picture file inside LiIonTester.zip)
1) china1800_1 – Battery advertised on ebay as 1800mAH:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1800mAh-Samsung-...item230c6fa877
2) china1500_1 - Battery sold on ebay and advertised as 1500mAH
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500mAh-NEW-BAT...974810?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item483cef829a
3) china1500_2 - Another battery sold on ebay and advertised as 1500mAH. My coworker gave me two to test. Both performed similarly
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-1500mAh-Batt...086?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa7cc8bb6
4) china1500_3 - Another battery sold on ebay and advertised as 1500mAH
http://cgi.ebay.com/2pcs-1500mAh-Ba...037707?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item2a0c4d960b
5) jindian1900_1 - Jin Dian battery sold on ebay and advertised as 1900mAH
http://cgi.ebay.com/1900mAH-Battery...972297?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item2a0cb76649
6) andida1850_1 - Battery advertised as 1850mAH sold by Obostore
http://www.obostore.com/1850mah-andida-spare-battery-for-samsung-galaxy-s-p-315.html
7) samsung1500_1 – OEM Samsung battery came with my phone ( after 6 months of use )
8) china3500_1 - Extended size I9000 battery ( Doesn't fit Samsung Captivate
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-3500Mah-EXT...669711?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item56423fdf8f
9) cptvt3500_1 - Extended size battery for Samsung Captivate requires new battery door
http://cgi.ebay.com/High-extended-3...774?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3366c99fce
10) cstm2600_1 - Custom battery I fabricated myself from two highest performing standard size batteries in my arsenal: china1500_1 and andida1850_1. See "custom_battery" folder inside LiIonTester.zip for pictures and DIY guide for the build
TEST RESULTS:
Capacity(10oHM) column is what you care about the most
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See “more detail” below to know how 10oHM and 50oHM loads effect the test.
See LiIonTester.zip for all test data
TEST SETUP:
The batteries were tested with special circuit outside the phone. This is a true battery capacity test. Results are not skewed by the installed custom ROM, overclocking, varies apps and interfaces that can be on, usage pattern or out of whack battery stats of the phone.
Li-Ion batteries operate between 2900mV and 4200mV. 4200mV is fully charged and 2900mV is fully drained. Battery tester works within the normal operating range.
The setup consists of the discharge circuit, microcontroller board with the potentiometers(voltage meters) and LCD. Discharge circuit is just a power resister wired across the battery and power FET( transistor) turns the circuit on and off. Transistor is controlled by microcontroller that monitors the voltage drop, calculates the current and controls the test. Test stops when voltage drops to 2900mV.
See my rig's schematic and pics in the attachment below
MORE DETAIL:
samsung1500_1 after 6 months of use still put out 1426mAH in my test environment. china1800_1 puts out only 1275mAH after 1 month of use. Li-Ion battery real world capacity depends slightly on the rate of discharge. The faster the discharge, the lower the effective capacity. In my tester circuit the discharge rate is 370mA per hour. It takes roughly 4 hours to drain the batteries. This is within the spec, but on the higher side. One of my co-workers suggested that cheap chinese batteries might actually have the same chemical capacity, but due to sub-par manufacturing process, internal resistance is more negatively effected by the higher discharge rate then higher quality Samsung OEMs. To check out this theory, swapped 10oHM resistor for 50oHM. This change decreased the current to ~74mA. It improved achievable capacity, but only marginally. Improvement was within my earlier expectations.
Cycling of the new battery doesn't change capacity, but it does effect phone’s circuitry that estimates the charge. To the end user, it appears that battery improves over time. It really doesn't. Estimators within the device get smarter as they learn the properties of the battery installed:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
china1500_1 put out 1323mAH, but it was only advertised at 1500mAH and sold for pennies, so I am not complaining. The one weird problem I ran in with china1500_1 was its voltage unexpected collapse. During drain cycle voltage went down slowly to 2800mV and then precipitously dropped to zero and stayed there. Other two batteries, drained normally down to 2700mV and after the load was removed voltage went right back above 3000mV. It turns out china1500_1 has battery overcharge/undercharge protection circuit that shuts itself off at 2800mV. This observation was the part of the reason for minimum voltage change to 2900mV.
UPDATE: 04/17/2010
* Added DIY guide on how to build custom extended size battery from two individual standard size batteries. See "custom_battery" folder inside LiIonTester.zip
UPDATE: 04/12/2010
* Build & tested my own extended size battery. See "custom_battery" folder inside LiIonTester.zip for more pictures from the build
* Tested I9000 extended size battery
* Tested Newly available Captivate Extended Size battery
UPDATE: 02/14/2010
* Tested Andida 1850mah battery
* Included CuriousTech test results in LiIoinTester.zip. CuriousTech tested Original battery, Mugen and Andida using RC charger/discharger. His results are not apple to apple comparison with mine, but very useful when you compare it to each other.
UPDATE: 01/21/2010
* Tested Jin Dian 1900mah battery
* Tested another 1500mah battery advertised as G7
* Andida 1850mAH battery is in the mail.
http://www.obostore.com/1850mah-andida-spare-battery-for-samsung-galaxy-s-p-315.html
UPDATE: 01/15/2010
* Tested another 1500mAH battery. My co-worker bought and gave it to me to run the test.
* Upped test minimum voltage by 200mV to 2900mV to be on the safe side. Remaining battery capacity below 2900mV is only 2mAH. This residual capacity is consistent among different batteries so it should not skew the results
* Added slow discharge rate test to show capacity variation range
Hm. Wish I read this before making my purchase.
I guess it'll be good as a gimpy back up when I'm out all day.
Good write up. Thanks
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Should have posted this in the existing thread in the Accessories subforum.
Excellent review
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm assuming that 2700mV is the min voltage required for the phone to run, correct? If so, where did you find that information?
nappent said:
I'm assuming that 2700mV is the min voltage required for the phone to run, correct? If so, where did you find that information?
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Click to collapse
2700mV is fully drained battery. At that point your phone will not turn on without plugging the charger. There plenty of reference material on the web that point to this number. Here is wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
To put together my tester I used following design, with some of my own modifications. It also references 2700mV
http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-True-Battery-Capacity-Tester-Li-IonNiMH/
Now, if you look at the data in .xls file, notice that the battery outputs only 3mah as the voltage drops from 3000mV to 2700mV. This is the same in china1800 and samsung1500. So, it might be worth while to modify my rig to stop the test at 3000mV.
This is such good information.
Thank you VERY much for taking your time to write up a detailed result from testing each battery.
Looking forward to your verdict on the 1900mAH.
Thanked the original threaded. Much deserved.
I read in one of the threads that the first 2 or 3 discharges were really bad but after there the battery began performing better.
did your run this test on a brand new one or one that has been cycled a few times?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
xfosx said:
I read in one of the threads that the first 2 or 3 discharges were really bad but after there the battery began performing better.
did your run this test on a brand new one or one that has been cycled a few times?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cycling of the new Li-ion battery has no effect on the battery capacity, therefore it has no effect on my tester. When new battery is discharged/re-charged couple of times circuitry within the phone learns about the true battery capacity and device battery life improves. Here more info on that
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
I used 1800mah Chinese battery for one month, at which point I really wanted to validate the capacity claims and so I did the research.
Awesome work. can you test some of the claimed 3000mah and 3500mah extended batteries?
Also not sure if you have heard about the SGS Armani that supposedly comes with a 1650mah battery stock.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=886743
Great info, thanks for doing this! Can't wait to see the 1900 review.
Great info, just what I was looking for. I look forward to your 1900mah battery review. Also if you get the chance, could you test the acclaimed 1850 battery?
obostore.com/1850mah-andida-spare-battery-for-samsung-galaxy-s-p-315.html
lokhor: I believe this Armani battery is the one to watch. The only rating's claim that seem to connect to reality is Samsung's OEM.
1900mah battery is in the mail. Should be testing it in a week or two
Heh, my 1900 mAh is in the mail too. We'll see, though I do not keep any hope, really.
slvr00gt said:
2700mV is fully drained battery. At that point your phone will not turn on without plugging the charger. There plenty of reference material on the web that point to this number. Here is wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
To put together my tester I used following design, with some of my own modifications. It also references 2700mV
http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-True-Battery-Capacity-Tester-Li-IonNiMH/
Now, if you look at the data in .xls file, notice that the battery outputs only 3mah as the voltage drops from 3000mV to 2700mV. This is the same in china1800 and samsung1500. So, it might be worth while to modify my rig to stop the test at 3000mV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So this is not actually based off of specs from Samsung saying that our Captivate phone need X amount for the system to run. Keep in mind that I'm wanting to know what is the minimum amount of voltage for the phone to keep operating rather then for a phone to turn. People want to know how long a battery is going to last from 100% until the phone's internal system forces it to shut down. Its good you are doing these test but we can't really say for certainty that either battery is good or not. Let keep in mind for every one doing tests like this you really need to take and test more then just one battery for each brand. Each manufacture is going to produce bad batteries in every batch... which is very easy to do if you look over the process of producing a Lithium-Ion battery. One mistake and the battery can easily fall below the intended specifications. It just depend if the manufacture is going to catch those bad batteries or not. OEM batteries likely have a lower chance of a bad or low performing battery to be release because Samsung likely requires more testing of each battery or batch of batteries. I can't say that for 100% certainty.
I've by no mean want to test batteries to the degree I recommend above as I really don't have the time or resources to do it. On the other had I've been using the 1800mAh battery for over 2 weeks now and it works at least 10hours longer (40-50 hours total) then my OEM battery (30-40 hours). So does that mean my OEM battery is bad or is it that the 1800mAh battery is just better as the sellers claim? We won't really know because we haven't done any extensive testing. Let just not jump the gun too quickly because one battery was tested.
I don't mean to be a jerk or anything... just my $0.02. And just for the record, I am no way promoting to buy a aftermarket/extended battery... Honestly you really should stick with a OEM battery as it has the lowest possibility of causing damage to your phone.
nappent said:
I've been using the 1800mAh battery for over 2 weeks now and it works at least 10hours longer (40-50 hours total) then my OEM battery (30-40 hours). So does that mean my OEM battery is bad or
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Click to collapse
I would really like to keep this thread free from comments such as "My phone lasted this much longer" It is hearsay. It doesn't really help much and discussed to death in other threads.
On the other hand, I was waiting for somebody to bring up sample size. It is a valid point. I only tested one battery. So, if you believe your battery lasts longer and you want to help out, send it to me and I will test it! If you include self-addressed and stamped envelop, I will send the battery back to you after test is done. PM me for more details
slvr00gt said:
I would really like to keep this thread free from comments such as "My phone lasted this much longer" It is hearsay. It doesn't really help much and discussed to death in other threads.
On the other hand, I was waiting for somebody to bring up sample size. It is a valid point. I only tested one battery. So, if you believe your battery lasts longer and you want to help out, send it to me and I will test it! If you include self-addressed and stamped envelop, I will send the battery back to you after test is done. PM me for more details
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Click to collapse
i think that might be the issue here...but i honestly think that this battery can be good...if 5ish people are getting these results...im thinking there might be something quirky making it better (ITS MAGIC!!) jkjk...i might get one to put in my 2 cents
sjavvaji said:
i think that might be the issue here...but i honestly think that this battery can be good...if 5ish people are getting these results...im thinking there might be something quirky making it better (ITS MAGIC!!) jkjk...i might get one to put in my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense but chinese quality control is a joke. It's like a lottery.
No doubt in my mind the value (performance/cost) is still better than OEM. Please don't expect the miracle that the capacity is as advertised. Just use it as a emergency/backup battery and be happy.
I think there might be a quality control issue here because I am having excellent results with the chinese battery.
I can't wait for the 1900mah test. I found that battery after I placed the order for the 1800.
Thats almost 27% claimed over stock. That would be a significant increase if its true.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
rodnii said:
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
ZiprLips said:
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
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Click to collapse
True. It's just my own curiosity. This can be closed if no one else is interested.
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Aeltar said:
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience in the field of overclocking desktop cpu's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu iirc , and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
Oh, and your comments on voltages for lithium ion batteries leads me to think you may have them confused with lithium ferrite (Li-Fe) batteries.
ZiprLips said:
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience e in the field of overclocking desktop club's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu out, and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
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Pardon me, but I'd like to correct a few details that you've overlooked.
1) I never said that one chemistry offers greater mAh, only that one offers a more stable voltage over its discharge cycle. This can be easily confirmed with a battery analyzer.
2) The li-ion pack they're using is clearly marked as 3.85v nominal. Most cells are 3.7v nominal, some are 3.6v, and some are 3.85v.
3) The voltage over discharge time is not linear; most cells operate at their nominal voltage for the largest portion of their discharge cycle, but 3.7v hardly equals 50% for most cells under most conditions.
4) Cells will not recharge in 'opposite polarity' if brought below 3.0v; the safety cutoff is actually 2.8v for most chemistries, and the safety issues with bringing them below that point is that the anode will begin to dissolve, which can cause an internal hard short if severe enough.
5) While li-po and li-ion typically offer the same nominal, maximal, and minimal voltages, the actual voltage over the discharge cycle is different between individual chemistries and constructions. Even identical chemistry (not just li-ion but IMR, also known as LiMn2O4) can differ in performance due to the material and architectural differences in the anode and cathode.
6) While the C rating is certainly relevant, I had assumed that Samsung would choose a cell that is of sufficiently high C rating to charge and discharge at and beyond typical amperage used in these phones.
7) You seem confused on the definition of Ah. Ah means amp-hours; one amp for one hour is one amp-hour. Similarly, joules are watt-seconds; one watt for one second is one joule, 60 watts for 1 second is 60 joules, and 1 watt for 60 seconds is 60 joules. However, energy is not transmitted at a rate of Ah, it is transmitted at a rate of A, or amps.
8) Desktop CPUs have little bearing on mobile CPUs. The technology used to power and construct them is entirely different. While it is extremely likely that mobile components are very low voltage, I don't have concrete knowledge regarding them, and I have no idea of the efficiency or regulation mechanism involved. I conjecture that they are very low-voltage, but while LP does indeed mean low power, power means wattage in the context of electrical engineering. You cannot extrapolate low-voltage from low-wattage due to Watt's law, which describes that you can create equivalent wattage using high voltage and low amperage or low voltage and high amperage (relatively speaking, of course, for both).
9) While mAh is mAh, the mAh given is at a specified load, typically 1C or 0.5C, and not at all indicative of performance at a higher load. There is almost no real-world use case in which you will actually be able to use the complete rated mAh of a cell, and the disparity is due to the voltage of the cell at differing loads at different points in the discharge cycle. It's trivially easy to get 1500mAh or less from a 3500mAh 18650, simply by drawing sufficient amperage. Li-Po typically offers a higher C rating for its size, compared to Li-ion which typically offers a higher capacity for its size. Because of this and the unknowns involved in power regulation inside the device, it's difficult to say whether the 3500mAh 3.85v li-ion cell used will be more or less efficient than a similarly sized and rated li-po cell, unless you happen to work with Samsung directly.
While I continue to disagree with most of your statements, I need to go to sleep, got to work tomorrow unfortunately.
I will only say that I concur with your definition of amp hours, I merely used a different cell capacity in my example. I should ha e some time at work tomorrow to continue the discussion.
There are different marketing names.
This kind of LiPo is often called a Li-HV in the hobby world.
HV for high voltage.
Instead of usual 3.7v nominal and 4.2v full, these chemistries run at 3.85v nominal and 4.35-4.4v full
Overall it should be a fairly quality cell, even if it IS made in China.... Personally I wish they sourced em from Panasonic / Sony / Sanyo etc or built em in Korea or Japan but it probably doesn't matter.
Wow, a very insightful read. Makes me want to go back and study for another degree haha..
Anyway, here is a picture of the battery from the Note7 iFixit teardown. It definitely says Li-Ion and lists nominal voltage @ 3.85V and charge voltage at 4.4V.
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/pHmgEwFNoQTnKyOY.huge
Honestly, I'm just curious, or even annoyed, because of discrepancies between what I see and what is being advertised/reported regarding tech specs. And being human, I want to get the best of what is offered, even if it's marginal. I know I shouldn't think too much about it and move on, but after seeing that photo, I can't help but wonder if there really are models out there with Li-Po or not.
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Mitha88 said:
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
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Click to collapse
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
rodnii said:
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
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Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure the "USB 2.0" was a typo I've seen many places list the "F" model with USB 3.1
i.e http://www.phonemore.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-note-7-sm-n930f/2708
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For RC usage (extremely high discharge) li-po is strictly superior, because it offers higher drain in a smaller package.
Our phones hardly use any power at all. Can you imagine any sort of RC device with a 1S 3.5Ah cell lasting all day?
Li-ion offers higher energy density for lower discharge applications, up to about 5-8C or so. Above that, li-po shines in terms of size compared to capacity and discharge rate.
As said previously I don't think the use of li-ion is really a letdown. It has drawbacks and benefits. I'd personally prefer li-po, but li-ion makes sense for this application as well.
I suspect the largest benefit the consumer would see from li-po in these uses, if similarly specced, would be greater overall durability (more charge cycles). Let's just hope they went with a high quality li-ion so it'll still be adequate a couple years down the road.
The fact that li-po swells slightly during normal usage is important, too. The teardowns I've seen show very packed internals; a slight amount of swelling, say, when fast charging a year down the road, could equal disaster for other components or the physical casing, or even perhaps the waterproofing.
Trueeeeee
bro all your researches is right and i have been working trying to find out the truth and actually you were scammed for years in every smartphone and iphone li ion batteries is a miss it cannot handle alot of voltage and almost gets 300 or 500 battery cycles and dies when it became 50 or 30 % i used two old smartphones in my house that is xiaomi note 4 li po and samsung s3 li ion those were my grandfather's and i asked him to help me in this research he used to work as a chemist in science university btw .. we left the both phones to charge with 5w charger for 3 nights and the li po phone didnot get hot and the other li ion phone was pregnant lol the back of it actually the battery were blown up i took it with a glove and got rid of it .. so that actually made me satisfied li po battery is safer to use and keeps its temp while li ion is much cheaper (i am not sure of the price) and we should maintain its temp between 25 - 55 c cause it gets damage by temp and have really bad life time i am not a scientist or hardware or software designer or any kind of these things i just noticed that .. and btw i tried this method with alot of smartphones that has li ion and li po batteries but i changed the chargers and tried higher voltage but not higher that what it does support like my note 8 only 15w charger and that surprised me li ion phones didnot survive they catch heat pretty fast they didnot blow up or anything but the battery life of them were decreased like **** but li po didnot get affected by any mean so i just have to change them that happened to my iphone 7 and samsung note 8 as well so dont try this test you well have to replace them in the store but fck money when i got to understand that companies like samsung and others were fooling us i know they have the best software and antennas and alot more good futures but what will i do with a phone that cannot charge quick like we see in others brands 40w chargers and 30w and having a bad battery life as well
I did not use any applications supporting / suggesting exploitation activities. In general, I try to minimize the amount of all apk.
I was charging the battery slowly from the computer's USB port. For over 2 years, the Redmi 4x phone with a mega-large Li-Po battery, about 4100 mAh, practically does not stick out from the new one. According to the AccuBattery application, its current approximate capacity is about 3915 mAh.
https://imgur.com/a/mJxqfM0
I also never needed a particularly high demand for electricity. Simple conversations or several websites you have checked on the Internet. Most of the time in wakefulness or rummaging around in settings
Sony XA2, unfortunately, has a much smaller battery and, in addition, not Li-Ion, but Li-Pol, but still quite large when it comes to this price range and dimensions.
I believe that a smartphone with a battery> 3300 mAh misses the point and it is an absolute minimum. It's a pity there is no Amoled screen then the runtime would be even longer. Back to the topic:
1
The same application suggests disconnecting the charging at 80%, is it worth doing? Thus, the number of charging cycles increases, on the other hand, it is said that it is worth not to fully charge the Li-Po battery. Perhaps it would be more optimal to 90%?
2
similarly with discharge ... to 0, as it used to be, even not allowed!
3
What other apps do you use? What's worth your attention and doesn't need too many permissions?
If so how did it go?
sutty86 said:
If so how did it go?
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haven't done that (yet), but it was good to see that here in Singapore there is a Huawei service center that offers original battery replacement for a reasonable price.
we recently did a battery replacement for my gf's Moto G5 Plus, but so far looks like the (non-original) replacement isn't up to par...
sutty86 said:
If so how did it go?
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There are starred reviews on aliexpress that reflect customer experiences with battery replacement. From what I've read these customers are well content with the renewed battery strength. You might want to take a look.
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
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depends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
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That's far from accurate. There are phones with 6000 even 18,000 mah capacities. For example the Samsung Galaxy M31 has 6000 mah.
Mah numbers stated on batteries are just that, numbers. There are phones with even lower battery capacities that outlast higher battery capacity phones by several hours including the 20x as yt video showdowns between different phones demonstrate. No doubt, although a higher mah indicates greater battery life generally, relatively speaking, battery life overall depends more on what's determined by the interaction among software, voltage and hardware than what's stated on the battery.
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
jbmc83 said:
depends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
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Your dropped battery capacity isn't surprising but natural during the course of its use. My own battery has a capacity of just shy of 4700, somewhere in the neighborhood of 4630 last time I checked.
As you stated, your battery was at one point at a full 5000 mah and lost 10% of its capacity to what's presently 4500. But just so you know, your battery is not precisely filled to 5000 mah right out the factory. In reality its always less than whats stated; the reason being is that batteries differ in capacity during manufacturing mostly to cut costs. Battery manufacturers round the numbers to the nearest hundredth or thousandth to read batteries easier. Hope this helps.
blackhawk said:
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
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Correct. This is why within the battery, cells are damaged which skip proper readings by the amount equal to the amount of juice generated by the lost, damaged cell.
Deanro said:
Correct. This is why within the battery, cells are damaged which skip proper readings by the amount equal to the amount of juice generated by the lost, damaged cell.
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This is what a typical Li polymer battery used in cell phones looks like.
There's no hard case to contain it so any internal pressure immediately becomes an issue.
Swelling in the cell it's self will distort the structure of the cell and alter it permanently.
A sealed plastic bag surrounds it to hold any vented gases or goo.
It's just one cell and it's rolled construction is similar to a capacitor.
It's alarmingly flimsy... and packed with energy.
Deanro said:
That's far from accurate. There are phones with 6000 even 18,000 mah capacities. For example the Samsung Galaxy M31 has 6000 mah.
Mah numbers stated on batteries are just that, numbers. There are phones with even lower battery capacities that outlast higher battery capacity phones by several hours including the 20x as yt video showdowns between different phones demonstrate. No doubt, although a higher mah indicates greater battery life generally, relatively speaking, battery life overall depends more on what's determined by the interaction among software, voltage and hardware than what's stated on the battery.
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Click to collapse
Sorry man you not right
No there is no any smartphone with 6000mAh Batteey you too naive to believe lies and fake statements from china That is complete crap what you saying that lower capacity batt will outperform battery with larger capacity.. Where do you live boy?
I will explain you about the batteries ok?
As I know about batteries. Li-ion batteries has best density
Speaking of cell density batteries there would have to be new design and new technology.
For more battery cells you obviously need larger battery ! THAT'S WHY Mate 20 X / Honor Note 10 battery is the largest from all.
Battery Size
Although higher-capacity batteries generally last longer than lower-capacity ones, they are not always suitable for use in every device. To achieve a higher capacity, battery makers often have to fit more cells into each battery. Cells are the parts of a battery in which the chemical reaction needed to generate electricity happens. Increasing a battery's cell count can in turn increase both the size and weight of the battery, making it unsuitable for use in slimline devices such as smaller cell phones and netbooks. The temperature and speed of electrical current discharge affects the overall capacity of the battery. Poorly made batteries often heat up too quickly resulting in performance issues or degraded capacity.
To calculate a battery's life, divide the capacity of the battery by the current required by the object it powers. For example, imagine that you have two batteries for your cell phone, one with a capacity of 1000 mAh and one with a capacity of 2000 mAh, and that your phone requires a current of 200 mA to function. The first battery would power the phone for five hours, as 1000 divided by 200 equals five. But the second battery would power the phone for ten hours, as it has double the capacity of the first. While a larger number indicates battery power, larger mAh batteries may not be better if it is a poor quality battery. It simply means it can store more power.
Cell phone battery life is heavily dependent on the way in which you use the phone. The more features you run at the same time on your phone, the more current your phone requires and the quicker the battery's capacity drains. This is why using WiFi or running complex games on your phone drains the battery quickly. As such, a battery with a high capacity that is used to power a smartphone might last for less time than a low-capacity battery that powers a basic device.
blackhawk said:
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The battery will most likely get swollen becuse stupid ppl will take their phones into shower where is humid and steam and it will obviously get inside phone remember 20X isn't ip68 and even ip68 phones can suffer if the phone is in humidity environment...
OR
If the phone is in freezing cold place so the frost will pass through no matter how proof device is and then when you take it to warm environment straight away inside phone and battery the freeze will turn into water and short and create battery to swollen becuse of the reaction ...
jbmc83 said:
d
epends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
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Since summer 2019
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
The battery will most likely get swollen becuse stupid ppl will take their phones into shower where is humid and steam and it will obviously get inside phone remember 20X isn't ip68 and even ip68 phones can suffer if the phone is in humidity environment...
OR
If the phone is in freezing cold place so the frost will pass through no matter how proof device is and then when you take it to warm environment straight away inside phone and battery the freeze will turn into water and short and create battery to swollen becuse of the reaction ...
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Click to collapse
You're right about the waterproofing, don't test it.
It might work...
In my case it wasn't abused and I was lucky it didn't take out my Note 10+'s display.
Heat and/or rapid discharging can cause it.
Or a bad copy from the factory.
Or simply accumulative damage over time and insults. I live in the desert so heat is omnipresent. I try to keep it cool especially when charging.
My phone has never been cold charged or even close to damp. Cold charging (>40°F) can trigger a run away thermal event or cause permanent damage.
Charging in temperatures under 72°F can cause Li plating which permanently degrades the cell.
blackhawk said:
You're right about the waterproofing, don't test it.
It might work...
In my case it wasn't abused and I was lucky it didn't take out my Note 10+'s display.
Heat and/or rapid discharging can cause it.
Or a bad copy from the factory.
Or simply accumulative damage over time and insults. I live in the desert so heat is omnipresent. I try to keep it cool especially when charging.
My phone has never been cold charged or even close to damp. Cold charging (>40°F) can trigger a run away thermal event or cause permanent damage.
Charging in temperatures under 72°F can cause Li plating which permanently degrades the cell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Xiaomi preparing something huge about smartphone battery so I am interested what it is gonna be...
Xiaomi to introduce revolutionary battery for Mi 11 Ultra and all-new in-house chip on March 29
The power cell will be silicon-oxygen, while the chip is likely an ISP for the liquid lens. Xiaomi is going big with its March 29 event. The company will...
www.gsmarena.com
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
Well Xiaomi preparing something huge about smartphone battery so I am interested what it is gonna be...
Xiaomi to introduce revolutionary battery for Mi 11 Ultra and all-new in-house chip on March 29
The power cell will be silicon-oxygen, while the chip is likely an ISP for the liquid lens. Xiaomi is going big with its March 29 event. The company will...
www.gsmarena.com
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Click to collapse
It's likely to be surging with something
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
Sorry man you not right
No there is no any smartphone with 6000mAh Batteey you too naive to believe lies and fake statements from china That is complete crap what you saying that lower capacity batt will outperform battery with larger capacity.. Where do you live boy?
I will explain you about the batteries ok?
As I know about batteries. Li-ion batteries has best density
Speaking of cell density batteries there would have to be new design and new technology.
For more battery cells you obviously need larger battery ! THAT'S WHY Mate 20 X / Honor Note 10 battery is the largest from all.
Battery Size
Although higher-capacity batteries generally last longer than lower-capacity ones, they are not always suitable for use in every device. To achieve a higher capacity, battery makers often have to fit more cells into each battery. Cells are the parts of a battery in which the chemical reaction needed to generate electricity happens. Increasing a battery's cell count can in turn increase both the size and weight of the battery, making it unsuitable for use in slimline devices such as smaller cell phones and netbooks. The temperature and speed of electrical current discharge affects the overall capacity of the battery. Poorly made batteries often heat up too quickly resulting in performance issues or degraded capacity.
To calculate a battery's life, divide the capacity of the battery by the current required by the object it powers. For example, imagine that you have two batteries for your cell phone, one with a capacity of 1000 mAh and one with a capacity of 2000 mAh, and that your phone requires a current of 200 mA to function. The first battery would power the phone for five hours, as 1000 divided by 200 equals five. But the second battery would power the phone for ten hours, as it has double the capacity of the first. While a larger number indicates battery power, larger mAh batteries may not be better if it is a poor quality battery. It simply means it can store more power.
Cell phone battery life is heavily dependent on the way in which you use the phone. The more features you run at the same time on your phone, the more current your phone requires and the quicker the battery's capacity drains. This is why using WiFi or running complex games on your phone drains the battery quickly. As such, a battery with a high capacity that is used to power a smartphone might last for less time than a low-capacity battery that powers a basic device.
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Click to collapse
Youre not bright when it comes to the subject of battery and 1000% wrong yet again. The Samsung Galaxy M31 is korean which you mistakingly think is chinese and has a 6000 mah battery which I'm sure youre too afraid to verify in google. The Helio P70 has a 18000 mah battery which of course you deny since you dont operate in our reality.
Longer capacity batteries dont guarantee a longer lasting life than lower capacity ones. Case in point, the iphone xr with 2940 mah equals the note 9 with 4000 mah as this yt video proves:
Youre trying hard to be relevant by trying to edge out people's comments with your nonsense. Being negative and insulting others violate forum rules which doesnt win you friends here. I reported you to the mods btw. Guys like you dont last long here. Be educated before you look foolish again.
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........
blackhawk said:
This is what a typical Li polymer battery used in cell phones looks like.
There's no hard case to contain it so any internal pressure immediately becomes an issue.
Swelling in the cell it's self will distort the structure of the cell and alter it permanently.
A sealed plastic bag surrounds it to hold any vented gases or goo.
It's just one cell and it's rolled construction is similar to a capacitor.
It's alarmingly flimsy... and packed with energy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very cool. I once actually saw the insides of a battery that exploded which was not a good look. The owner stopped buying that brand as a result. LMAO
Deanro said:
Very cool. I once actually saw the insides of a battery that exploded which was not a good look. The owner stopped buying that brand as a result. LMAO
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As you see they are somewhat fragile. I inadvertently ripped right into the active layer before I knew it after I removed the outer bag
Crazy. A fruity smelling solvent was also present. I wiped down my hands even though I sensed nothing; caustic burns are the worst.
It's a good idea to have little charge on these when >gently< removing them.
I'm not as comfortable with these packs as I was before, ignorance is bliss... until it starts smoking.