Related
From what this guy says is to only let your battery cycle a few times then charge whenever it needs it and this will increase battery life cycle.
I can't complain I get pretty good overall battery life, although I would like to see what a replacement modded 2200-2500 battery would be like in this beast!
http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-tips-tricks/213618-lithium-polymer-batteries-101-a.html
Every phone I've owned after my Treo 300 has been powered by a Lithium Polymer battery, and I've seen the same misconceptions and incomplete or bad information about those batteries in the forums for every one of those phones including the Evo. Well I'm home sick and can't do much else besides cough, so I'm going to try to educate y'all a little.
And why do I think I'm qualified to do that? Well I just turned 60 and I've been actively involved with electronics, both as a hobby and professionally, since I was 10. I've also been a model (R/C) aviator for many years and rechargable batteries have played a huge role in both of those pursuits. I began using LiPo cells in my projects and planes long before they started appearing in consumer electronics. Not much was known about them back then and we were basically on our own to figure out what worked and what didn't and we also had to design and build our own chargers. Those were exciting times given LiPo cells' tendency to "vent with flame" when they aren't happy.
So without getting too technical, here are some things you should know about LiPo battery packs:
The single most important thing you need to know is LiPo batteries can explode. They actually "vent with flame" with a big woosh, but "explode" seems to be the most popular description. Perhaps the surest and quickest way to make that happen is charge them beyond 4.2V per cell. Modern consumer electronics have plenty of built-in safeguards in place to prevent that from happening, but some "budget" battery packs and chargers don't have all the safeguards. The other common reasons LiPo packs explode is excessive heat and physical damage. I've personally seen two cars which had phones explode on the dashboard and it wasn't pretty. I also saw an executive's desk after a phone exploded in a drawer nearly 12 hours after he rolled over it with his car. The technical name for the phenomenon is "thermal runaway" and the actual chances of it happening to you are pretty slim if you stick to name brand batteries and chargers and use some common sense.
And you never want to forget or ignore this simple rule: If a battery pack ever starts to puff up like a little pillow or change size or shape in any other way, treat it like a firebomb with the timer ticking. Take it outside and put it in your barbecue or a steel pail or something.
While I'm on the "vent with flame" rant I'd like to add this: Almost all modern cell phones (including the Evo) use a single-cell (3.7V) battery pack. The charging circuit in the phone will prevent you from overcharging it, but all bets are off if you remove the pack from the phone and charge it in an external charger. One very common way model aviators accidently blow up LiPo packs is by charging them with a charger set to a higher cell count, and this could happen to a cell phone battery if you were to try to charge it with a charger made for a camera, for example. The other way model aviators blow up packs is by charging them at a higher current rating than they're designed for. I mention this because it may not be a good idea to charge a stock 1500mAh battery with an external charger designed for a 3000 mAh battery, but I can't say for sure without knowing the charging current of the charger. It would be both safe and acceptable to charge a 3000mAh battery with a charger designed for a 1500mAh battery, but it would take twice as long.
Next, you never want to discharge a LiPo cell below 3V per cell. 3V is completely discharged for a LiPo cell and if you go below that voltage you'll do unrecoverable damage to the cell chemistry. Once again, modern consumer electronics have plenty of built-in safeguards in place to prevent that from happening, but it's not hard to do by accident or by design once the battery is out of the device. Put the battery in an external charger and unplug it, for example ... No, don't.
There is no practical reason to unnecessarily discharge or cycle a LiPo pack. All you'll accomplish is reduce the number of charge-discharge cycles the pack will be capable of before it begins losing capacity. LiPo packs don't develop a "memory" like the old Ni-Cad cells did and they'll last significantly longer if subjected to partial charge-discharge cycles than they will with full charge-discharge cycles. In layman's terms, your battery will last longer if you charge it whenever you can rather than wait until you have to all the time. Also, the capacity of new LiPo pack will usually improve after it's been through a few charge-discharge cycles, but the best way to do that is through normal use.
LiPo cells have a shelf-life and they basically begin to degrade on the day they're assembled. But they degrade faster if they're stored at full charge, so if you won't use a battery pack for a significant length of time (~2 weeks or more), discharge it about half way before you store it. You don't need to get real technical about this because close counts. Just use the battery until the gauge shows about half green.
And finally this, for those of you who are compelled to play with volt meters:
A fully-charged healthy LiPo cell will have a resting voltage of 4.2V, but the nominal working voltage is only 3.7V. As I mentioned above, these cells are completely depleated when the resting voltage reaches 3.0V so the entire working voltage range for a LiPo cell is only 0.7V nominal. In low-current devices like a cell phone the actual working voltage range is more like 3.85V to 3V, but that additional 0.15V doesn't really amount to much. So what happens to that voltage range between 4.2 - 3.7V? In the simplest of terms, it's just a surface charge of sorts. Even at low current loads the voltage will quickly drop to the nominal working voltage where it will hold pretty close to steady until the cell is about 80% depleated.
The graph above is a typical 6C discharge voltage curve for an average LiPo cell. 6C means the cell was discharged at a rate (in mA) that was 6 times the rated capacity of the cell (in mAh). In other words, if the cell was a stock 1500mAh cell for the Evo, then the discharge rate would be 6 x 1500 or 9000mA (9A). Needless to say, a cell phone will only draw a tiny fraction of that current which would affect the curve in the following way: The starting voltage would be more like 4.1V and it would quickly drop to around 3.8V instead of 3.6V. Then the voltage would gradually drop until it hit about 3.4V and drop from there relatively quickly.
And that is just about everything you need to know to get along with Lithium Polymer battery packs and then some. To wrap this up, here's a short video of what can happen if you mistreat a LiPo battery. Judging by the visual evidence, my guess is it's a single 2100 to 2500mAh cell:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU
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backfromthestorm
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Li-Ion & Li-Poly are the same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...olymer_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm learning this myself but it is good info for us since we can not take our battery and replace it.
This Google search shows the One X has Li-poly battery, many of pages good info the One X using Lithium Polymer Battery type, so that is the info I'm using.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie....,cf.osb&fp=3ca401bf196c59f0&biw=1920&bih=950
Specs here on XDA say its Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/HTC_One_X
Specification
Processor: 1500 MHz NVIDIA Tegra 3 AP33H
Operating System: Google Android 4.0.3 (ICS) with HTC Sense 4.0
Memory:
32GB internal
1024 MB RAM
Dimensions: 2.8 x 5.3 x 0.4 inches
Weight: 130g
Display:
Type: S-LCD 2 capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size: 720x1280 pixels, 4.7 inches
Gorilla glass screen
Multi-touch input method
Connectivity:
Bluetooth® 4.0 with EDR,A2DP,AVRCP
Wi-Fi®: IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Near-Field Communication
Micro USB Port
TV-out (via MHL A/V link, 1080p)
Camera: 8 megapixel color with autofocus, LED flash, 1080p recording, ImageSense Chip
Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
Network:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1)
Data: GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
READ DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer
Charging Li‑ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li‑ion or Li‑polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.
Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures. Read more about the Lithium-polymer battery and the Pouch Cell.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries
A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Interesting read, thanks
I've been using LiPo batteries for the last 5 years in my Trex 450, 500 & 600 along with my electric planes too... they are something like half the weight with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite ..... I've never had issues wity them providing they're used properly..
Really surprised they haven't taken over the LiIon batts in phones ....
Below is my Trex 600 using a 6 Cell 3000mAh LiPo with a 25C and a 35 burst rating ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw99SjxLdyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
Thanks for the info. Good to know so we don't let them get too hot also. About what temp are they good to before they aren't happy anymore?
Sent from my MoPho using XDA
[email protected] said:
I've been using LiPo batteries for the last 5 years in my Trex 450, 500 & 600 along with my electric planes too... they are something like half the weight with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite ..... I've never had issues wity them providing they're used properly..
Really surprised they haven't taken over the LiIon batts in phones ....
Below is my Trex 600 using a 6 Cell 3000mAh LiPo with a 25C and a 35 burst rating ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw99SjxLdyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's to be understood under: "with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite". Does that mean, for example, while it does have the same capacity as a none liPo battery that it actually still does pack more? I know, sounds contradicting but I think you know what i mean.
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
I also had some experience with batteries in many devices and i have only 1 thing to say to all of You - just use the device !
Everything that is important is already sorted out for You.
I personally think that batteries in HTC One X are very durable and treated like an egg by device itself, firstly HTC optimizing Sense 4.0, secondly Google`s Android is 4.0 not a beta 1.0, last thing is that the body of the unit acts like a radiator grill cooling down battery and CPU.
There is only 1 thing to look at, if u see that the phone is idling but its getting HOT, check for badly made application that uses the CPU and kill it.
Here are some more reading material for those who are interested in learning about Li-Poly batteries.:
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries
How to Charge - When to Charge Table
Is Lithium-ion the Ideal Battery?
Charging Lithium-ion
According to those guides its always better to do partial discharges and charge before the battry goes completely dead. That way you can prolong the lifetime of your battery. As a habit I normally don’t let my batteries discharge below 30% if I can help it. My previous Galaxy S used to have about 40% charge at the end of the day. I’m yet to buy a HTC One X, but hope it won’t fully discharge by the end of the day. Since One X doesn’t have a removable battery prolonging the life time is critical.
shadehh said:
What's to be understood under: "with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite". Does that mean, for example, while it does have the same capacity as a none liPo battery that it actually still does pack more? I know, sounds contradicting but I think you know what i mean.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it means density of stored charge, so for a given battery physical dimension and weight, a LiIon/LiPoly battery will have around 1/3 extra mAh than NiMh and NiCd.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
Some of these phones are getting pretty hot. I have read post of people getting up to the high 60c range here is some info that I just found that goes along with the temps that you are experiencing. If your cell is getting over 60c your battery will die out at a more rapid pace or more serious it could explode and catch on fire. HTC better be getting some fixes and updates out because this could be some big trouble if a reported fires would happen. So come on with those updates HTC.
CELL PHONE BATTERY PICTURE
backfromthestorm
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Li-Ion & Li-Poly are the same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...olymer_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So am I supposed to do any full cycle on a new phone or just start using and partial recharging ?
After reading all of that information I don't let mine go below half and the battery seems to be doing really good. The thing that caught my eye was on another site where they use the same type of battery in radio controlled airplanes is that you get about 500-600 full cycles with these types of batteries, but if you don't let it drain all the way it isn't considered a full cycle. So it would also seem the battery life would last longer and they also said not to use the phone while charging if possible, turn it off and charge.
What is the maximum reachable temperature for the One X battery? Sometimes it gets very HOT, i don't want my head to explode
drvsbsm said:
backfromthestorm
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
fridgie said:
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The electrolyte is stored in a composite polymer rather than an organic solvent. Otherwise they are pretty much the same; it doesn't change the charge/discharge characteristics or the energy density. You can even use the same charger. From a black box perspective, they are the same, it's just that with LiPo, your box has more options on shape and might be cheaper to manufacture.
Hi
drvsbsm said:
After reading all of that information I don't let mine go below half and the battery seems to be doing really good. The thing that caught my eye was on another site where they use the same type of battery in radio controlled airplanes is that you get about 500-600 full cycles with these types of batteries, but if you don't let it drain all the way it isn't considered a full cycle. So it would also seem the battery life would last longer and they also said not to use the phone while charging if possible, turn it off and charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A top up charge also helps because the battery has less time to heat up before it's full than it would with a longer charge from flat to full. Heat is a big aging factor of these types of batteries. Never charge the phone on the carpet or other soft furnishing which insulates them and causes more heat, and is a fire hazard, if you can charge them keeping the phone cool on something solid and nice and conductive for heat, for example a metal surface.
Of course while charging from 50% to 100% avoids a full cycle so you get more cycles, a big chunk of that advantage is cancelled out because you are only getting half the use of the battery each time and so are charging it twice as often, so overall while it helps to keep topping it up, I don't think anyone needs to excessively worry about this. Just use the phone
Regard
Phil
PhilipL said:
Hi
A top up charge also helps because the battery has less time to heat up before it's full than it would with a longer charge from flat to full. Heat is a big aging factor of these types of batteries. Never charge the phone on the carpet or other soft furnishing which insulates them and causes more heat, and is a fire hazard, if you can charge them keeping the phone cool on something solid and nice and conductive for heat, for example a metal surface.
Of course while charging from 50% to 100% avoids a full cycle so you get more cycles, a big chunk of that advantage is cancelled out because you are only getting half the use of the battery each time and so are charging it twice as often, so overall while it helps to keep topping it up, I don't think anyone needs to excessively worry about this. Just use the phone
Regard
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you get more cycles, charging 50% to 100% letting it drop to 50% then charge to 100% is one cycle.
50% - 100% = 1/2 cycle
but doing smaller charges means it takes longer before you start losing the capacity from wear and tear, but by the time i get any negative effect to charging my contract will be long up and ill be getting my self the newest shinny toy
i was i have htc Sensation and the bettery is better than HOX battery
i installed ARHD ROM & Faux Kernel UV
i don't see any improvments
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
fridgie said:
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm learning this myself but it is good info for us since we can not take our battery and replace it.
This Google search shows the One X has Li-poly battery, many of pages good info the One X using Lithium Polymer Battery type, so that is the info I'm using.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie....,cf.osb&fp=3ca401bf196c59f0&biw=1920&bih=950
Specs here on XDA say its Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/HTC_One_X
Specification
Processor: 1500 MHz NVIDIA Tegra 3 AP33H
Operating System: Google Android 4.0.3 (ICS) with HTC Sense 4.0
Memory:
32GB internal
1024 MB RAM
Dimensions: 2.8 x 5.3 x 0.4 inches
Weight: 130g
Display:
Type: S-LCD 2 capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size: 720x1280 pixels, 4.7 inches
Gorilla glass screen
Multi-touch input method
Connectivity:
Bluetooth® 4.0 with EDR,A2DP,AVRCP
Wi-Fi®: IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Near-Field Communication
Micro USB Port
TV-out (via MHL A/V link, 1080p)
Camera: 8 megapixel color with autofocus, LED flash, 1080p recording, ImageSense Chip
Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
Network:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1)
Data: GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
READ DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer
Charging Li‑ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li‑ion or Li‑polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.
Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures. Read more about the Lithium-polymer battery and the Pouch Cell.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries
A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
The opinions below are based on my experience, training and the tests I carried out on the purchased batteries. I am not affiliated to or employed by any battery or phone manufacturer.
I will be happy to retest and add to this report should any supplier or manufacturer believe that I have tested faulty items and are prepared to supply me with another/others to test. The additional information will be added honestly however it tests.
Tests based on a rooted and optimised version of the official 2.3 build of the HTC desire with a standard htc desire 1A charger.
Utilities used included:
Battery monitor widget pro
Antutu battery test
The reference battery is a two year old original HTC battery which is well used but still in very good condition. Capacity reasonably tested and calculated at around 1180 - 1250mAh of the original rated 1400mAh. Given normal projected losses for li-ion batteries this seemed high for a 18-24 month old battery but as other ratings are relative to this, the other estimates should be equally on the high side if anything.
A took great care to fully charge/cycle the new batteries as described by the sellers, and did a full calibrating charge cycle on the original before rating it. Battery stats were cleared for testing as each battery was tested.
Various tests were carried out including using battery monitor widget pro to analyse any different usage/performance and estimate power of each battery in addition to using original as benchmark.
SUMMARY RESULTS (mAh accuracy expected to be +/- 15%)
Antutu test scores. Note these do not define a power rating, only relative benchmarks on the same phone in the same situation. The capacities stated result from the tests with battery monitor widget pro and compared to the confident rating of the original.
*****************************************************************************************************************
2 year old original HTC battery claimed 1400mAh - tested 495 (approx 1200mAh)
New Cameron Sino (in loose packaging) claimed 2400mAh - tested 773 (approx 1900mAh)
New Bilitong gold in original packaging claimed 1650mAh - tested 356 (approx 850mAh)
*****************************************************************************************************************
The Good
========
The Cameron Sino tested is the first chinese battery I have tested which actually gives more (around 50% more) capacity than the good condition 2 year old original. This equates to somewhere between 1800-2000mAh for this battery. This does result in testing to a 50% longer phone life in the same use.
Its available very cheap
The large case back needed by these large batteries and as supplied by the Amazon seller is a good fit, seems good quality. Although effectively doubles the thickness of the phone is easy to hold unlike the reports of some no brand large batteries and larger covers with 'quick break' clips. It actually seems easier to hold to me than in the phones 'skinny' form. It of course feels significantly heavier.
The Bad - some seem very serious
================================
There is some impact on the quality of pictures taken by the deep recessed slots the pictures and flash have to pass through.
The large battery does seem to move some with a bit of a clunck felt which should be easily addressable with a small cushion pad added to the inside of the case.
The Cameron Sino battery I tested (like the bilitongs) does not seem to have proper (or at least working) control and protection electronics, in that neither the voltage or the battery temperature is correctly reported to the phone. Both report a fixed voltage of 3923mV and a relatively fixed 24.x temperature even when the phone is noticeably hot to the touch.
Both the Cameron Sino and the Bilitongs seem unwilling to report a 100% charge. Both stick at 99% although I have seen 100% on the Cameron Sino once, which may have been a very minor phone calibration error rather than the battery actually reporting 100%.
Both the Cameron Sino and Bilitong batteries demonstrated erratic battery % left (which is all they really reported) sometimes going back up significantly after being in light use and often dropping very sharply in reasonable use (wifi and browsing with bright screen).
The original did not do this to any noticeable level, always showing consistent and accurate % remaining, and as the original also reported accurately full range battery voltage and temperature, so is in a vastly higher league in its status reporting and presumably safety.
It seems to me that in both the Cameron Sino and Billitong batteries, the proper control and protection circuitry is replaced by a something akin to a simple resistor/diode type setup which is just enough to fool the phone into actually using these batteries rather than reject them as faulty as would occur if there was nothing on these circuits.
Its worthy of note that the standbye/self-discharge rate on the none-original batteries (all) is actually higher than the original with full protection circuitry - adding to the view that there are something like low quality resistors replacing the control circuitry.
This means that I cant see how any any over or under voltage or over temperature protection is done with the 'compatible' batteries potentially increasing the risk of damage to the phone.
The Ugly?
=========
Ok with the Cameron Sino its twice as thick and a fair bit heavier. But I don't see this as a great issue. It sits nicer in the hand in my view and I'm Less likely to loose it by dropping it un-noticed.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
So my personal views in summary.
================================
Based on the one I received, the Cameron Sino will give 50% better capacity than a good condition 2 year old original.
Presumably the gains would be significantly less over a new original HTC battery, and more over a worn out original.
Beware of the apparent lack of protection and control, the increased weight/size and possible camera problems.
If you are using the standard phone software, you could get much better increases by installing one of the optimised versions of the HTC builds available freely from the developer forums. I gained over 50% on the usable life per charge just from installing one of these, and ensuring things like gps and wifi were switched off unless I needed them. (at the touch of an icon).
Even if you don't do this, the latest official HTC 'radio reportedly improves power use significantly over older versions.
*** Do any of these at your own risk and after properly investigating the options.
Finally, I would strongly suggest you completely avoid the Bilitong batteries just as much as the unbranded chinese batteries, which in my experience are unlikely to give much better than 850mAh (whatever they claim) when new and very quickly fade, let alone the apparent lack of proper control and protection electronics (seemingly shared by the Cameron Sino).
Gonna amend the overall view with the following:
As the Cameron battery had 2-3 times the standby/low use drain of the original battery resulting in far more battery drain overnight and when the phone is simply being carried around, the extended capacity would be of far less use to those looking for extra days of light use between charges, and would only be really effective for extending heavy use in a single day.
I have already gone back to using the old original battery.
Possibly use one of the crappy Bilitongs when using GPS in the car in a windscreen cradle as the phone can get quite hot there and I want to minimise hot use of the good battery.
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
rodnii said:
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
ZiprLips said:
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. It's just my own curiosity. This can be closed if no one else is interested.
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Aeltar said:
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
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I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience in the field of overclocking desktop cpu's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu iirc , and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
Oh, and your comments on voltages for lithium ion batteries leads me to think you may have them confused with lithium ferrite (Li-Fe) batteries.
ZiprLips said:
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience e in the field of overclocking desktop club's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu out, and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
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Pardon me, but I'd like to correct a few details that you've overlooked.
1) I never said that one chemistry offers greater mAh, only that one offers a more stable voltage over its discharge cycle. This can be easily confirmed with a battery analyzer.
2) The li-ion pack they're using is clearly marked as 3.85v nominal. Most cells are 3.7v nominal, some are 3.6v, and some are 3.85v.
3) The voltage over discharge time is not linear; most cells operate at their nominal voltage for the largest portion of their discharge cycle, but 3.7v hardly equals 50% for most cells under most conditions.
4) Cells will not recharge in 'opposite polarity' if brought below 3.0v; the safety cutoff is actually 2.8v for most chemistries, and the safety issues with bringing them below that point is that the anode will begin to dissolve, which can cause an internal hard short if severe enough.
5) While li-po and li-ion typically offer the same nominal, maximal, and minimal voltages, the actual voltage over the discharge cycle is different between individual chemistries and constructions. Even identical chemistry (not just li-ion but IMR, also known as LiMn2O4) can differ in performance due to the material and architectural differences in the anode and cathode.
6) While the C rating is certainly relevant, I had assumed that Samsung would choose a cell that is of sufficiently high C rating to charge and discharge at and beyond typical amperage used in these phones.
7) You seem confused on the definition of Ah. Ah means amp-hours; one amp for one hour is one amp-hour. Similarly, joules are watt-seconds; one watt for one second is one joule, 60 watts for 1 second is 60 joules, and 1 watt for 60 seconds is 60 joules. However, energy is not transmitted at a rate of Ah, it is transmitted at a rate of A, or amps.
8) Desktop CPUs have little bearing on mobile CPUs. The technology used to power and construct them is entirely different. While it is extremely likely that mobile components are very low voltage, I don't have concrete knowledge regarding them, and I have no idea of the efficiency or regulation mechanism involved. I conjecture that they are very low-voltage, but while LP does indeed mean low power, power means wattage in the context of electrical engineering. You cannot extrapolate low-voltage from low-wattage due to Watt's law, which describes that you can create equivalent wattage using high voltage and low amperage or low voltage and high amperage (relatively speaking, of course, for both).
9) While mAh is mAh, the mAh given is at a specified load, typically 1C or 0.5C, and not at all indicative of performance at a higher load. There is almost no real-world use case in which you will actually be able to use the complete rated mAh of a cell, and the disparity is due to the voltage of the cell at differing loads at different points in the discharge cycle. It's trivially easy to get 1500mAh or less from a 3500mAh 18650, simply by drawing sufficient amperage. Li-Po typically offers a higher C rating for its size, compared to Li-ion which typically offers a higher capacity for its size. Because of this and the unknowns involved in power regulation inside the device, it's difficult to say whether the 3500mAh 3.85v li-ion cell used will be more or less efficient than a similarly sized and rated li-po cell, unless you happen to work with Samsung directly.
While I continue to disagree with most of your statements, I need to go to sleep, got to work tomorrow unfortunately.
I will only say that I concur with your definition of amp hours, I merely used a different cell capacity in my example. I should ha e some time at work tomorrow to continue the discussion.
There are different marketing names.
This kind of LiPo is often called a Li-HV in the hobby world.
HV for high voltage.
Instead of usual 3.7v nominal and 4.2v full, these chemistries run at 3.85v nominal and 4.35-4.4v full
Overall it should be a fairly quality cell, even if it IS made in China.... Personally I wish they sourced em from Panasonic / Sony / Sanyo etc or built em in Korea or Japan but it probably doesn't matter.
Wow, a very insightful read. Makes me want to go back and study for another degree haha..
Anyway, here is a picture of the battery from the Note7 iFixit teardown. It definitely says Li-Ion and lists nominal voltage @ 3.85V and charge voltage at 4.4V.
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/pHmgEwFNoQTnKyOY.huge
Honestly, I'm just curious, or even annoyed, because of discrepancies between what I see and what is being advertised/reported regarding tech specs. And being human, I want to get the best of what is offered, even if it's marginal. I know I shouldn't think too much about it and move on, but after seeing that photo, I can't help but wonder if there really are models out there with Li-Po or not.
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
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I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Mitha88 said:
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
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Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
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I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
rodnii said:
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
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I'm pretty sure the "USB 2.0" was a typo I've seen many places list the "F" model with USB 3.1
i.e http://www.phonemore.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-note-7-sm-n930f/2708
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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For RC usage (extremely high discharge) li-po is strictly superior, because it offers higher drain in a smaller package.
Our phones hardly use any power at all. Can you imagine any sort of RC device with a 1S 3.5Ah cell lasting all day?
Li-ion offers higher energy density for lower discharge applications, up to about 5-8C or so. Above that, li-po shines in terms of size compared to capacity and discharge rate.
As said previously I don't think the use of li-ion is really a letdown. It has drawbacks and benefits. I'd personally prefer li-po, but li-ion makes sense for this application as well.
I suspect the largest benefit the consumer would see from li-po in these uses, if similarly specced, would be greater overall durability (more charge cycles). Let's just hope they went with a high quality li-ion so it'll still be adequate a couple years down the road.
The fact that li-po swells slightly during normal usage is important, too. The teardowns I've seen show very packed internals; a slight amount of swelling, say, when fast charging a year down the road, could equal disaster for other components or the physical casing, or even perhaps the waterproofing.
Trueeeeee
bro all your researches is right and i have been working trying to find out the truth and actually you were scammed for years in every smartphone and iphone li ion batteries is a miss it cannot handle alot of voltage and almost gets 300 or 500 battery cycles and dies when it became 50 or 30 % i used two old smartphones in my house that is xiaomi note 4 li po and samsung s3 li ion those were my grandfather's and i asked him to help me in this research he used to work as a chemist in science university btw .. we left the both phones to charge with 5w charger for 3 nights and the li po phone didnot get hot and the other li ion phone was pregnant lol the back of it actually the battery were blown up i took it with a glove and got rid of it .. so that actually made me satisfied li po battery is safer to use and keeps its temp while li ion is much cheaper (i am not sure of the price) and we should maintain its temp between 25 - 55 c cause it gets damage by temp and have really bad life time i am not a scientist or hardware or software designer or any kind of these things i just noticed that .. and btw i tried this method with alot of smartphones that has li ion and li po batteries but i changed the chargers and tried higher voltage but not higher that what it does support like my note 8 only 15w charger and that surprised me li ion phones didnot survive they catch heat pretty fast they didnot blow up or anything but the battery life of them were decreased like **** but li po didnot get affected by any mean so i just have to change them that happened to my iphone 7 and samsung note 8 as well so dont try this test you well have to replace them in the store but fck money when i got to understand that companies like samsung and others were fooling us i know they have the best software and antennas and alot more good futures but what will i do with a phone that cannot charge quick like we see in others brands 40w chargers and 30w and having a bad battery life as well
Saw this aftermarket 6000mah battery for the 20X on aliexpress, good reviews all round (one review says it's 7500mah). Has anyone tried this? If so how was the installation process?
5000mah already lasts me 2-4 days but 6000mah would be really handy during heavy use days.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047747490.html
Vicxx said:
Saw this aftermarket 6000mah battery for the 20X on aliexpress, good reviews all round (one review says it's 7500mah). Has anyone tried this? If so how was the installation process?
5000mah already lasts me 2-4 days but 6000mah would be really handy during heavy use days.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047747490.html
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Click to collapse
Here you go. The 1st link is a video teardown and the 2nd is a guide. You will need to apply some heat to open the cover. But a blow dryer may suffice. Buy T7000 glue to glue the cover back on. Its a very simple removal, not hard at all.
Huawei Mate 20 X Teardown
More power, more screen, more battery, more...
www.ifixit.com
.
Vicxx said:
Saw this aftermarket 6000mah battery for the 20X on aliexpress, good reviews all round (one review says it's 7500mah). Has anyone tried this? If so how was the installation process?
5000mah already lasts me 2-4 days but 6000mah would be really handy during heavy use days.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047747490.html
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Click to collapse
it is fake
PhoneTechShop said:
it is fake
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How do you know? have you tried it?
Vicxx said:
How do you know? have you tried it?
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No these chinese companies trying lie to sell ... not just with these batteries but any other.. just peel of their label and u will see original 5000 huawei battery
I know some of them do lie but you can't go around saying ALL chinese companies and sellers are frauds. If you're going around making unsubstantiated claims with not even a shred of evidence no one will ever take you seriously again, at least not me.
Vicxx said:
I know some of them do lie but you can't go around saying ALL chinese companies and sellers are frauds. If you're going around making unsubstantiated claims with not even a shred of evidence no one will ever take you seriously again, at least not me.
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Is the battery bigger or thicker than orig ? u cannot make bigger mAh and keeping same size man think.com ...
download an app which detects battery capacity and let me know who was right ...
Or let me know how longer will phone last from charge than with original
Edit : I attached picture from your link and they claiming in description ''above 5000mAh'' How can you be so naive??
And 7000 ?? yeah right ... keep dreaming..
And one Russian (with bad english) left only 3 stars s the battery apparently is not any good .. Didn't understand quite what he was saying.. But 3 stars says it all
to be fair its not all just about size, there is a thing such as energy density, which is actually the most important factor in a battery's design
in general, i would advise caution when buying non-original batteries. at the same time, higher capacity in the same form factor is totally inside the realm of possibility.
jbmc83 said:
to be fair its not all just about size, there is a thing such as energy density, which is actually the most important factor in a battery's design
in general, i would advise caution when buying non-original batteries. at the same time, higher capacity in the same form factor is totally inside the realm of possibility.
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As I know about batteries. Li-ion batteries has best density
Speaking of cell density batteries there would have to be new design and new technology.
For more battery cells you obviously need larger battery ! THAT'S WHY Mate 20 X / Honor Note 10 battery is the largest from all.
Battery Size
Although higher-capacity batteries generally last longer than lower-capacity ones, they are not always suitable for use in every device. To achieve a higher capacity, battery makers often have to fit more cells into each battery. Cells are the parts of a battery in which the chemical reaction needed to generate electricity happens. Increasing a battery's cell count can in turn increase both the size and weight of the battery, making it unsuitable for use in slimline devices such as smaller cell phones and netbooks. The temperature and speed of electrical current discharge affects the overall capacity of the battery. Poorly made batteries often heat up too quickly resulting in performance issues or degraded capacity.
To calculate a battery's life, divide the capacity of the battery by the current required by the object it powers. For example, imagine that you have two batteries for your cell phone, one with a capacity of 1000 mAh and one with a capacity of 2000 mAh, and that your phone requires a current of 200 mA to function. The first battery would power the phone for five hours, as 1000 divided by 200 equals five. But the second battery would power the phone for ten hours, as it has double the capacity of the first. While a larger number indicates battery power, larger mAh batteries may not be better if it is a poor quality battery. It simply means it can store more power.
Cell phone battery life is heavily dependent on the way in which you use the phone. The more features you run at the same time on your phone, the more current your phone requires and the quicker the battery's capacity drains. This is why using WiFi or running complex games on your phone drains the battery quickly. As such, a battery with a high capacity that is used to power a smartphone might last for less time than a low-capacity battery that powers a basic device.
If so how did it go?
sutty86 said:
If so how did it go?
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haven't done that (yet), but it was good to see that here in Singapore there is a Huawei service center that offers original battery replacement for a reasonable price.
we recently did a battery replacement for my gf's Moto G5 Plus, but so far looks like the (non-original) replacement isn't up to par...
sutty86 said:
If so how did it go?
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There are starred reviews on aliexpress that reflect customer experiences with battery replacement. From what I've read these customers are well content with the renewed battery strength. You might want to take a look.
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
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depends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
No absolutely not needed.. Why when the phone will last the longest of all smartphones?
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Click to collapse
That's far from accurate. There are phones with 6000 even 18,000 mah capacities. For example the Samsung Galaxy M31 has 6000 mah.
Mah numbers stated on batteries are just that, numbers. There are phones with even lower battery capacities that outlast higher battery capacity phones by several hours including the 20x as yt video showdowns between different phones demonstrate. No doubt, although a higher mah indicates greater battery life generally, relatively speaking, battery life overall depends more on what's determined by the interaction among software, voltage and hardware than what's stated on the battery.
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
jbmc83 said:
depends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
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Click to collapse
Your dropped battery capacity isn't surprising but natural during the course of its use. My own battery has a capacity of just shy of 4700, somewhere in the neighborhood of 4630 last time I checked.
As you stated, your battery was at one point at a full 5000 mah and lost 10% of its capacity to what's presently 4500. But just so you know, your battery is not precisely filled to 5000 mah right out the factory. In reality its always less than whats stated; the reason being is that batteries differ in capacity during manufacturing mostly to cut costs. Battery manufacturers round the numbers to the nearest hundredth or thousandth to read batteries easier. Hope this helps.
blackhawk said:
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
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Click to collapse
Correct. This is why within the battery, cells are damaged which skip proper readings by the amount equal to the amount of juice generated by the lost, damaged cell.
Deanro said:
Correct. This is why within the battery, cells are damaged which skip proper readings by the amount equal to the amount of juice generated by the lost, damaged cell.
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This is what a typical Li polymer battery used in cell phones looks like.
There's no hard case to contain it so any internal pressure immediately becomes an issue.
Swelling in the cell it's self will distort the structure of the cell and alter it permanently.
A sealed plastic bag surrounds it to hold any vented gases or goo.
It's just one cell and it's rolled construction is similar to a capacitor.
It's alarmingly flimsy... and packed with energy.
Deanro said:
That's far from accurate. There are phones with 6000 even 18,000 mah capacities. For example the Samsung Galaxy M31 has 6000 mah.
Mah numbers stated on batteries are just that, numbers. There are phones with even lower battery capacities that outlast higher battery capacity phones by several hours including the 20x as yt video showdowns between different phones demonstrate. No doubt, although a higher mah indicates greater battery life generally, relatively speaking, battery life overall depends more on what's determined by the interaction among software, voltage and hardware than what's stated on the battery.
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Click to collapse
Sorry man you not right
No there is no any smartphone with 6000mAh Batteey you too naive to believe lies and fake statements from china That is complete crap what you saying that lower capacity batt will outperform battery with larger capacity.. Where do you live boy?
I will explain you about the batteries ok?
As I know about batteries. Li-ion batteries has best density
Speaking of cell density batteries there would have to be new design and new technology.
For more battery cells you obviously need larger battery ! THAT'S WHY Mate 20 X / Honor Note 10 battery is the largest from all.
Battery Size
Although higher-capacity batteries generally last longer than lower-capacity ones, they are not always suitable for use in every device. To achieve a higher capacity, battery makers often have to fit more cells into each battery. Cells are the parts of a battery in which the chemical reaction needed to generate electricity happens. Increasing a battery's cell count can in turn increase both the size and weight of the battery, making it unsuitable for use in slimline devices such as smaller cell phones and netbooks. The temperature and speed of electrical current discharge affects the overall capacity of the battery. Poorly made batteries often heat up too quickly resulting in performance issues or degraded capacity.
To calculate a battery's life, divide the capacity of the battery by the current required by the object it powers. For example, imagine that you have two batteries for your cell phone, one with a capacity of 1000 mAh and one with a capacity of 2000 mAh, and that your phone requires a current of 200 mA to function. The first battery would power the phone for five hours, as 1000 divided by 200 equals five. But the second battery would power the phone for ten hours, as it has double the capacity of the first. While a larger number indicates battery power, larger mAh batteries may not be better if it is a poor quality battery. It simply means it can store more power.
Cell phone battery life is heavily dependent on the way in which you use the phone. The more features you run at the same time on your phone, the more current your phone requires and the quicker the battery's capacity drains. This is why using WiFi or running complex games on your phone drains the battery quickly. As such, a battery with a high capacity that is used to power a smartphone might last for less time than a low-capacity battery that powers a basic device.
blackhawk said:
It's not just a drop in mAh's that warrant replacement. If there's any detected battery swelling the battery needs replaced asap.
The risk of a thermal runaway event increases dramatically with a damaged (swollen) Li battery.
This can happen even with a new battery.
The swelling can possibly damage the phone as well, without going supernova, by putting pressure on surrounding components... like the display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The battery will most likely get swollen becuse stupid ppl will take their phones into shower where is humid and steam and it will obviously get inside phone remember 20X isn't ip68 and even ip68 phones can suffer if the phone is in humidity environment...
OR
If the phone is in freezing cold place so the frost will pass through no matter how proof device is and then when you take it to warm environment straight away inside phone and battery the freeze will turn into water and short and create battery to swollen becuse of the reaction ...
jbmc83 said:
d
epends how long and how hard uve been using it i guess. im currently down to roughly 4500 mAh, thus 90% of the original 5000 mAh capacity. still super happy with the SOT im getting though
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Click to collapse
Since summer 2019
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
The battery will most likely get swollen becuse stupid ppl will take their phones into shower where is humid and steam and it will obviously get inside phone remember 20X isn't ip68 and even ip68 phones can suffer if the phone is in humidity environment...
OR
If the phone is in freezing cold place so the frost will pass through no matter how proof device is and then when you take it to warm environment straight away inside phone and battery the freeze will turn into water and short and create battery to swollen becuse of the reaction ...
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Click to collapse
You're right about the waterproofing, don't test it.
It might work...
In my case it wasn't abused and I was lucky it didn't take out my Note 10+'s display.
Heat and/or rapid discharging can cause it.
Or a bad copy from the factory.
Or simply accumulative damage over time and insults. I live in the desert so heat is omnipresent. I try to keep it cool especially when charging.
My phone has never been cold charged or even close to damp. Cold charging (>40°F) can trigger a run away thermal event or cause permanent damage.
Charging in temperatures under 72°F can cause Li plating which permanently degrades the cell.
blackhawk said:
You're right about the waterproofing, don't test it.
It might work...
In my case it wasn't abused and I was lucky it didn't take out my Note 10+'s display.
Heat and/or rapid discharging can cause it.
Or a bad copy from the factory.
Or simply accumulative damage over time and insults. I live in the desert so heat is omnipresent. I try to keep it cool especially when charging.
My phone has never been cold charged or even close to damp. Cold charging (>40°F) can trigger a run away thermal event or cause permanent damage.
Charging in temperatures under 72°F can cause Li plating which permanently degrades the cell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Xiaomi preparing something huge about smartphone battery so I am interested what it is gonna be...
Xiaomi to introduce revolutionary battery for Mi 11 Ultra and all-new in-house chip on March 29
The power cell will be silicon-oxygen, while the chip is likely an ISP for the liquid lens. Xiaomi is going big with its March 29 event. The company will...
www.gsmarena.com
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
Well Xiaomi preparing something huge about smartphone battery so I am interested what it is gonna be...
Xiaomi to introduce revolutionary battery for Mi 11 Ultra and all-new in-house chip on March 29
The power cell will be silicon-oxygen, while the chip is likely an ISP for the liquid lens. Xiaomi is going big with its March 29 event. The company will...
www.gsmarena.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's likely to be surging with something
Aorus Mini-ITX RiG said:
Sorry man you not right
No there is no any smartphone with 6000mAh Batteey you too naive to believe lies and fake statements from china That is complete crap what you saying that lower capacity batt will outperform battery with larger capacity.. Where do you live boy?
I will explain you about the batteries ok?
As I know about batteries. Li-ion batteries has best density
Speaking of cell density batteries there would have to be new design and new technology.
For more battery cells you obviously need larger battery ! THAT'S WHY Mate 20 X / Honor Note 10 battery is the largest from all.
Battery Size
Although higher-capacity batteries generally last longer than lower-capacity ones, they are not always suitable for use in every device. To achieve a higher capacity, battery makers often have to fit more cells into each battery. Cells are the parts of a battery in which the chemical reaction needed to generate electricity happens. Increasing a battery's cell count can in turn increase both the size and weight of the battery, making it unsuitable for use in slimline devices such as smaller cell phones and netbooks. The temperature and speed of electrical current discharge affects the overall capacity of the battery. Poorly made batteries often heat up too quickly resulting in performance issues or degraded capacity.
To calculate a battery's life, divide the capacity of the battery by the current required by the object it powers. For example, imagine that you have two batteries for your cell phone, one with a capacity of 1000 mAh and one with a capacity of 2000 mAh, and that your phone requires a current of 200 mA to function. The first battery would power the phone for five hours, as 1000 divided by 200 equals five. But the second battery would power the phone for ten hours, as it has double the capacity of the first. While a larger number indicates battery power, larger mAh batteries may not be better if it is a poor quality battery. It simply means it can store more power.
Cell phone battery life is heavily dependent on the way in which you use the phone. The more features you run at the same time on your phone, the more current your phone requires and the quicker the battery's capacity drains. This is why using WiFi or running complex games on your phone drains the battery quickly. As such, a battery with a high capacity that is used to power a smartphone might last for less time than a low-capacity battery that powers a basic device.
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Youre not bright when it comes to the subject of battery and 1000% wrong yet again. The Samsung Galaxy M31 is korean which you mistakingly think is chinese and has a 6000 mah battery which I'm sure youre too afraid to verify in google. The Helio P70 has a 18000 mah battery which of course you deny since you dont operate in our reality.
Longer capacity batteries dont guarantee a longer lasting life than lower capacity ones. Case in point, the iphone xr with 2940 mah equals the note 9 with 4000 mah as this yt video proves:
Youre trying hard to be relevant by trying to edge out people's comments with your nonsense. Being negative and insulting others violate forum rules which doesnt win you friends here. I reported you to the mods btw. Guys like you dont last long here. Be educated before you look foolish again.
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........
blackhawk said:
This is what a typical Li polymer battery used in cell phones looks like.
There's no hard case to contain it so any internal pressure immediately becomes an issue.
Swelling in the cell it's self will distort the structure of the cell and alter it permanently.
A sealed plastic bag surrounds it to hold any vented gases or goo.
It's just one cell and it's rolled construction is similar to a capacitor.
It's alarmingly flimsy... and packed with energy.
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Very cool. I once actually saw the insides of a battery that exploded which was not a good look. The owner stopped buying that brand as a result. LMAO
Deanro said:
Very cool. I once actually saw the insides of a battery that exploded which was not a good look. The owner stopped buying that brand as a result. LMAO
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As you see they are somewhat fragile. I inadvertently ripped right into the active layer before I knew it after I removed the outer bag
Crazy. A fruity smelling solvent was also present. I wiped down my hands even though I sensed nothing; caustic burns are the worst.
It's a good idea to have little charge on these when >gently< removing them.
I'm not as comfortable with these packs as I was before, ignorance is bliss... until it starts smoking.