Develop Bugs

Skyfire anyone?

This is intented just for the US as privet beta.
Any one got is hands on?
http://www.skyfire.com/product
Cheers,

It's not out yet.

Yeah, but did anybody download the beta? and can they share that with us?

They've changed this privacy policy in the last day or so, but here is part of it, which explains why I won't ever touch Skyfire...
(from http://www.skyfire.com/about/privacy-and-security)
Skyfire Labs, Inc. (“Skyfire”) has developed a mobile web browser (the “Browser”) that enables you to surf the internet, interact with websites and send and receive content (collectively “Browser Usage”) on your mobile phone, PDA and other handheld electronic devices. When you use the Browser, Skyfire has access to, and in many cases will monitor, your Browser Usage.
...
Once you have subscribed to and begin to use the Browser, we will collect information about your use of the Browser on your Device (“Browser Usage Information”). Browser Usage Information includes such information as which websites and programs you access or download on your Device, how long you visit such websites and use such programs, your activities (such as products purchased or advertisements viewed) on such websites, which specific areas of a website or webpage you use and for how long, websites you bookmark, search terms you use, referring/exit pages, browser and platform types, the geographic location in which your Device is being used and information you provide on third party websites. All of your Browser Usage Information is stored by Skyfire under an automatically generated, random identification number (“ID Number”) that will not be associated with or linked to your Personal Information. Please be aware, though, that your Browser Usage Information, when viewed in the aggregate, may reveal your identity even if it is not associated with or linked to your Personal Information. By downloading our Browser and accepting our Terms of Use (which includes acceptance of this Privacy Policy), you have given us your express consent to collect and use Browser Usage Information and tie it to an ID Number.

dude who cares its still going to be really cool so what they will know what your looking at dont do your banking or anything else to important look up your favorite youtube videos read the news and look at your fav teams scores on espn and let them watch

Of course I'd not do any banking or similar, but the point is... do you want Big Brother watching your every move?

AdamR78 said:
Of course I'd not do any banking or similar, but the point is... do you want Big Brother watching your every move?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
being honest i have to say i don't mind, let them record what they want.
do you think your ISP/Mobile carrier does not log your usage via IEM/Opera mobile etc?
i work for a mobile carrier and can tell you they do.
Chris

Skyfire out for touch hd

apologeez if this article has already been made but too excited to care. just installed skyfire on my htc touch hd and it works. go to skyfire.com and download it.

Is this likely to be better than Opera already preinstalled?

I'm afraid it's still the same upscaled vga version that's been out for a while.

clown is correct, it's still an improvement over the old skyfire with which you had to use vgaFix with (even nice then alpha), but it's still not quite it.
Also, clown, I have a question (hope you read this), since you're using Dutty's Rom....do people know that if you add where you live to the world clock, it will sync with the weather and display it in the New Appointment in Calander? I don't want to start a thread if everyone already knows.
Thanks

It does 'work', in the sense you can see Flash/video content in-page, but it's important to remember Skyfire is a proxy browser - everything goes via their own server first, and all your form filling goes back through their servers too.
I'm liking the rich media, but not enough to risk them seeing my credit card details, passwords and browsing history!

Tried it a couple of times, and tbh, it's slow as hell.
Think I'll be taking it off soon.

c_lee said:
It does 'work', in the sense you can see Flash/video content in-page, but it's important to remember Skyfire is a proxy browser - everything goes via their own server first, and all your form filling goes back through their servers too.
I'm liking the rich media, but not enough to risk them seeing my credit card details, passwords and browsing history!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somehow I doubt the $100k+ salary microsoft engineers care about your credit card number.... or would waste their time looking at your browsing history. Even if they were able to go through all that data and find your card number, you think they'd risk their job for the measily couple Ks in your bank account....ya I doubt that. Not to mention you're one of how many 100s of thousands of people using it daily. But hey, that's your perogative

Svegetto said:
Somehow I doubt the $100k+ salary microsoft engineers care about your credit card number.... or would waste their time looking at your browsing history. Even if they were able to go through all that data and find your card number, you think they'd risk their job for the measily couple Ks in your bank account....ya I doubt that. Not to mention you're one of how many 100s of thousands of people using it daily. But hey, that's your perogative
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the Microsoft bods I'd be worried about, and I believe that's the point...

c_lee said:
It does 'work', in the sense you can see Flash/video content in-page, but it's important to remember Skyfire is a proxy browser - everything goes via their own server first, and all your form filling goes back through their servers too.
I'm liking the rich media, but not enough to risk them seeing my credit card details, passwords and browsing history!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think; the opera mobile, o.mini, IE mobile etc. work in different way than the skyfire? You are wrong!
Like you said before : "everything goes via their own server first"
And the main benefit from it is that pages are loaded quicker.

Feromon said:
What do you think; the opera mobile, o.mini, IE mobile etc. work in different way than the skyfire? You are wrong!
Like you said before : "everything goes via their own server first"
And the main benefit from it is that pages are loaded quicker.
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Click to collapse
Opera Mini uses proxying (it compresses to OBML) but in doing so they break end-to-end SSL, and so many secure sites (eBay etc.) refuse the traffic. Opera Mobile connects direct unless you specifically set up a proxy service. Skyfire uses the same concept as Opera Mini, and so breaks the SSL chain, but unlike O-mobile there's no option to turn it off. Because the proxy compression process results in unencrypted data on Skyfire's server (albeit transiently) a number of credit card companies have said the idea (based on how O-mini does it) breaks their rules on fraud protection, so the customer wouldn't be compensated if the card details were stolen.
IE Mobile on WM6.1 does not use proxying. Project Deepfish did, but that was closed in 2008 and the servers disconnected.

c_lee said:
Opera Mini uses proxying (it compresses to OBML) but in doing so they break end-to-end SSL, and so many secure sites (eBay etc.) refuse the traffic. Opera Mobile connects direct unless you specifically set up a proxy service. Skyfire uses the same concept as Opera Mini, and so breaks the SSL chain, but unlike O-mobile there's no option to turn it off. Because the proxy compression process results in unencrypted data on Skyfire's server (albeit transiently) a number of credit card companies have said the idea (based on how O-mini does it) breaks their rules on fraud protection, so the customer wouldn't be compensated if the card details were stolen.
IE Mobile on WM6.1 does not use proxying. Project Deepfish did, but that was closed in 2008 and the servers disconnected.
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Click to collapse
I think it's not quite true but maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if so...
Opera does exactly the same. Both Opera and Skyfire pre-render websites through their proxies, the difference being that Opera is text-based and Skyfire is image-based.
That's why Opera loads slower and scrolls quickes (loads the whole text part of the website at once), while Skyfire loads quicker and scrolls slower (loads only the visible part as compressed image, google maps style).

I really don't understand it....everytime I go to their web page I can't seem to download it eventhough I already selected touchscreen and click the download button, nuthin happens

Feromon said:
I think it's not quite true but maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if so...
Opera does exactly the same. Both Opera and Skyfire pre-render websites through their proxies, the difference being that Opera is text-based and Skyfire is image-based.
That's why Opera loads slower and scrolls quickes (loads the whole text part of the website at once), while Skyfire loads quicker and scrolls slower (loads only the visible part as compressed image, google maps style).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera Mobile is not using a proxy, Opera is however launching a new version with a option to use a proxy, search on Opera Turbo.

Top 3 third party applications

What are your top 3 third party applications that you would love to have on your Windows Phone 7 Series? Most used applications for your daily routines, works, entertainment, what not ... Top 3 applications that you have in mind when asked about mobile applications.
Interesting to know so we could see what users expect to have on WP7 in terms of application.
It does not have to be Windows Mobile 6.x applications. If you think certain iPhone / Android / BB / Symbian apps thats fine.
I start with my top 3:
1. Offline navigation software
- like TomTom, CoPilot, iGo.
2. Opera Mini
- I just love the speed, thats all.
3. Good Facebook client
- Microsoft has one for WM6, but I expect much better than that. I read that iPhone version is better.

I basically use my phone for calls, messages and development... being last one like the only reason why I didn't keep my cheap old Nokia phone. Sometimes I'm using weather, GPS, reading emails or google for this or that but that's all and I'm just happy that I just can do such things whenever I would need them. I'm not really a crazy apps freak....

Got to be iGo as one of them for me!

gogol said:
3. Good Facebook client
- Microsoft has one for WM6, but I expect much better than that. I read that iPhone version is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS comes with great facebook integration already built in, no need for an app!
My top apps are:
FPSeCE (Playstation Emulator)
Spacetime 4.0 (Graphing Calculator Software)
Pandora

I know that, but I have doubt with that Facebook integration.
Not that I am saying it is not good, but from what I saw ... the integration is split into 2 hubs ... People hub where you can see status update of your Facebook friends and Photo/Pictures hub where you can see Facebook photo albums of your friends.
With dedicated Facebook app, all those will come in the same flow of information.
Well, not a big deal really, because I am using http://touch.facebook.com via web browser (Opera Mini).
Kloc said:
The OS comes with great facebook integration already built in, no need for an app!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
Not that I am saying it is not good, but from what I saw ... the integration is split into 2 hubs ... People hub where you can see status update of your Facebook friends and Photo/Pictures hub where you can see Facebook photo albums of your friends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which, IMO, is the best approach possible. Heck, I might even start using Facebook this way. Why would I need that information in a separate application? Why would I want to view photos in anything but a photo viewing app? Or where else do I need contact information apart from the contact app?
Also, this approach theoretically should aggregate information from different networks in a way that makes sense. I mean, if you are a member of both Facebook and, say, Linked-In, would you really want two separate applications to handle data from these networks?

1.Opera Mobile 10
To read 3 different newspapers each morning on my Omnia II and have all my desktop bookmarks synced OTA to my phone. Been using Opera since v3.0 or so, love it.
2.GSPlayer
to listen to somafm.com !
3. Googlemaps
Works good enough, could be done much better (font size can not be set !) and leaks 2 DC's each time you start and stop it. Have to take another look at bing maps soon

Coreplayer!!!!!!!!
IGO
BattClock (used to display battery info)

For me, if I can reduce time spent then I will choose that way.
Instead of going into 2 hubs to read status updates AND photo updates, I would prefer to just go once to look them all
Like I said, this is not a big deal because there is facebook website itself which can be accessed via web browser.
Probably because I use facebook a lot
Oh yes, the idea of multiple social network integration is nice, dont get me wrong. Probably just because of that, I would start using Twitter! Atm I am only using FB.
vangrieg said:
Which, IMO, is the best approach possible. Heck, I might even start using Facebook this way. Why would I need that information in a separate application? Why would I want to view photos in anything but a photo viewing app? Or where else do I need contact information apart from the contact app?
Also, this approach theoretically should aggregate information from different networks in a way that makes sense. I mean, if you are a member of both Facebook and, say, Linked-In, would you really want two separate applications to handle data from these networks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Top applications: 'Real' Map-reader/GPS, Ebook reader,
Well, I might not be a typical user (and actually one of the things I liked about 'Windows Mobile Classic' was that it had a diverse ecosystem, catering for non-typical users!) but these are the two apps I use most:
1) A GPS/map-reader that works with real maps (i.e. topographic maps such as, in the UK, the Ordinance Survey series)
- so ideally, Memory-Map will port their software to WP7
2) An ebook reader that can read EPUB and TXT formats
- actually this is such an important use-case for me that I wrote a program to do it (see this thread). I expect to start porting it to WP7 just as soon as the SDK becomes available.

Windows Phone 7 is a paradigm-shift in how phones operate. Apps will no longer be individual screens, but will be subsumed into the overall user interface. Facebook is the most obvious example of that. If you take Tomtom, for instance, it will be peppered all over the phone in any of the following ways;
People Hub: Select a person and then hit the menu option to navigate to their home or workplace
Calendar Hub: Select a Calendar Entry and then hit the menu option to navigate to the Location of that entry.
Bing Search: Hit a search result to be navigated to its location if it is a real world place like a pizza restaurant, for instance. Once Tomtom is installed, instead of just the one option to be directed there by Bing Maps, you'll have a second option as well to navigate there by Tomtom.
Only once you're actually on the road will you get the Tomtom screen up with the 3D view of the road. The rest of the Tomtom UI will be embedded into these hubs.
I'd expect Twitter, Google Maps, Flickr etc to all melt into the phone's UI as simply extra menu options.
I think this is largely why the App list accessible from the home screen is so basic - it won't be the usual way to start an app. Normally the app will be called from a menu in part of one of the hubs. In this way, apps will organically feel like just an extension of the phone's usual functionality. Heck, I can even see the Photos hub doing something like footprints and recording the GPS coordinates, so you can use the Tomtom menu item in there to navigate to the place in the photo!
This is going to be totally awesome. And I think it's partly why the question of "Does it multitask" isn't so clear-cut...

I use my phone as a phone and as a PDA so most of what I need is already there (calendar, alarm, agenda, Excel, etc)
1) But I have to have an ewallet. I use SPB at the moment and fully expect them to port it to WP7.
2) I also would like some ereader that handles most file types (EPUB mostly).
Could care less about the whole Facebook/Twitter thing. Just hope they don't get in the way of how I use my phone. Will have to wait to see how the interface can be changed. If I have to have Facebook/Twitter in the middle of my processes I will probably not get a WP7 phone.

donnaw said:
Could care less about the whole Facebook/Twitter thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that doesn't make sense? Do you mean you could NOT care less?

I would like to see all my apps on it I hope I will be able to port them!

I love opera and youtube

giggles33 said:
I love opera and youtube
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera should be made redundant by the new version of IE contained in WP7S. Youtube will become a subsumed service as part of the Pictures & Videos hub in the UI, and will simply be another source of video from the cloud, in the same way that Facebook posted videos are. I would also imagine that the Bing search engine will return Youtube hits.
Basically, be prepared for apps to function in an entirely different way to what you're used to - they will become simply extensions of your phone's functionality - many apps will be able to avoid having their own screens at all and instead rely on the hubs to provide their input/output.

Jim Coleman said:
Opera should be made redundant by the new version of IE contained in WP7S.
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Click to collapse
It's not likely that we'll see a version of Opera on WP7S as it's impossible to do a decent browser engine in managed code, because alternative browser makers will be the last to get access to native APIs (if ever), and probably IE will be much better than what we have now, but alternative browsers will not be made "redundant" by this. I can bet IE won't have text reflow, for example, which I personally love and severely miss when I try to use iPhone's Safari.

vangrieg said:
I can bet IE won't have text reflow, for example, which I personally love and severely miss when I try to use iPhone's Safari.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would lose that bet.

I would like to see Skype on Win Phone 7

Making competitors (Opera must earn a lot of money with their OEM deals) redundant is just plainly impossible nowadays without some sort of "deal" made. It's really very interesting what will happen soon.

Browsers

does anybody think that opera made opera mini & 10 final because they are starting to develop a browser for wp7? or is this all just a big coincidence that they did the day after MIX or maybe they have giving up on windows phones & are just gonna focus on android??
thoughts?

No native code equals no alternative browsers.

vangrieg said:
No native code equals no alternative browsers.
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Click to collapse
im not so sure i believe that there wont be other browsers, why else would they say that they have no problems with other browsers on the platform just to not allow it or to force them to use the IE engine (wouldnt they need native code or special access to even do that?)
is it possible to get flash working without native code? cuz if not then that shows that they are willing to let it be used i think there will be opera on wp7 & im not talking about that mini crap

Why wouldn't they say they have no problems with alternative browsers? Sure they are nice unlike Apple, you can make any application you want... as long as it's done in SL/XNA.
And of course they do their own stuff in C++, they're not crazy.
As regards Flash, yes, that will be done in C++ as well, no doubt about it. But that adds value to their IE, while Opera is another matter. We'll see. So far they said specifically that SL/XNA is "the whole developer story".

Opera is going to be an option on WP7, but it can never be the default browser.

vangrieg said:
Why wouldn't they say they have no problems with alternative browsers? Sure they are nice unlike Apple, you can make any application you want... as long as it's done in SL/XNA.
And of course they do their own stuff in C++, they're not crazy.
As regards Flash, yes, that will be done in C++ as well, no doubt about it. But that adds value to their IE, while Opera is another matter. We'll see. So far they said specifically that SL/XNA is "the whole developer story".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at the same time options with different browsers add value to wp7 & unless that new IE is better & faster then safari then they will need it

No because alternative browsers may easily have Google as default search engine.

vangrieg said:
No because alternative browsers may easily have Google as default search engine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IE on the pc can have google as the default search engine & even if the bowsers have it also you still wont be able to set google as the search button so people will still be using bing at the end of the day anyway

vangrieg said:
No native code equals no alternative browsers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera Mini doesn't run natively.

Yeah, but it's also not a browser really.

Microsoft never said that they wouldn't allow apps that competed with app that come with the platform. They said that It just can't be the default app. If you open a link in a outlook mail or you text message it will automatically go to the IE browser. But your allowed to use alternative browsers.

Shasarak said:
Opera Mini doesn't run natively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm.. so what are you saying it is? .NET?

vangrieg said:
No native code equals no alternative browsers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that simple. Opera's income from the mobile market segment does not come directly from the end users (it's free, remember?). They deal with manufacturers and network operators to get their browsers integrated with their software. Microsoft have announced that OEM partners will be allowed to run native code so this COULD mean that Opera could be bundled with some phones if Microsoft sees it fitting. I doubt it though.

Nilzor said:
Uhm.. so what are you saying it is? .NET?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The opera mini I use seems to be a java app.

Nilzor said:
I doubt it though.
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Click to collapse
Well that's the point anyway, isn't it?
asadk said:
The opera mini I use seems to be a java app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's latest WM version is native, there's nothing that prevents it from being made in C# or whatever - it's not a browser anyway, as it doesn't include a rendering engine, just a UI client for a cloud service.

vangrieg said:
It's latest WM version is native, there's nothing that prevents it from being made in C# or whatever - it's not a browser anyway, as it doesn't include a rendering engine, just a UI client for a cloud service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera Mobile is a native app; Opera Mini is Java.

Shasarak said:
Opera Mobile is a native app; Opera Mini is Java.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Previously, yes. However, there is now is a native Opera Mini for WM. Of course, it's still using pre-rendering on Opera's servers.

Since iphone has such a huge market share, wont the anti-trust laws apply to Apple for not allowing any other browser other than safari??????

There will be Opera for WP7S. Microsoft has already said they will allow 3rd party browsers.
Flash has to be native code, and Microsoft has already siginaled there will be exceptions to allow native code. It is just they prefer you to do it with Silverlight or XNA if you can, and probably won't allow you unless contact them first with a reason.

krjcook said:
Microsoft never said that they wouldn't allow apps that competed with app that come with the platform. They said that It just can't be the default app. If you open a link in a outlook mail or you text message it will automatically go to the IE browser. But your allowed to use alternative browsers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, I don't see why this restriction of making alternative default applications is often dismissed as minor. How are you going to use Opera really if it can't be launched from other apps by clicking links, without copy/paste, no access to filesystem and without the ability to access IE bookmarks even? It'll pretty much be limited to entering URLs manually or using whatever built-in bookmarks/cloud storage they ship with. While technically and legally this is indeed "allowing third party browsers", realistically it's very close to "you can't use anything but IE on WP7".

User Agents on browser?

I was messing with my browser settings and I came across an option titled User Agent or something like that, then it a list showed up with options like Froyo, Eclair, Linux, iPhone, etc... I also noticed that somewhere else but it had to do with I think MMS or SMS I forget which, anyone have a clue what you can use that for and what are benifets?
Sent From My T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

The user agent is how websites identify the device you're browsing from. For example, if you choose desktop, going to a website like amazon.com will always show the full, desktop version. If you change it to Android or iPhone, it will load a "mobile" version of amazon.com that is optimized for small screens and minimizing data usage. No idea what the SMS/MMS context is.

c00ller said:
The user agent is how websites identify the device you're browsing from. For example, if you choose desktop, going to a website like amazon.com will always show the full, desktop version. If you change it to Android or iPhone, it will load a "mobile" version of amazon.com that is optimized for small screens and minimizing data usage. No idea what the SMS/MMS context is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has no context to SMS or MMS. It simply defines what the phone tells the website it is like you said.
For many up-to-date websites, 'Android' will offer a slightly different page than 'iPhone', because the iPhone site is optimized for HTML5, whereas many pages will show flash for Android.

You are thinking about the sms user agent, where cyanogenmod lets you change what phone the network thinks is sending the message. I believe changing it to Nexus One fixes the heavily compressed mms issue, but don't quote me on that.
Sent from my T-mobile G2 using Tapatalk