Develop Bugs

What if you do not use Facebook or Twitter?

I know it is hard to believe that in this day and age there are people who do not spend half their day refreshing Facebook and Twitter. I personally do not even have an account at Facebook or Twitter or any other social networking site.
This is no problem as long as Facebook access is contained in an app that I can simply not launch. In WP7 however, from what I've seen of it at least, the social networking aspects seem completely unavoidable.
Whenever I go into contacts or people or whatever they are calling it, there will be a whole "What's New" column (Facebook Wall or recent Tweets I guess?) that for me would be blank all the time. Then there is the option to "share" content with others that seems to appear on every other context menu in the OS.
I'll admit my knowledge of WP7 is so far only skin deep. It is just a lot of what I read about it talks about how well integrated it is with social networks.
So does anyone know how far this integration goes? Is it just a few features that can be easily ignored? Or is it so deeply weeded to the OS that it would be constantly in your way and difficult to remove, like IE used to be with Windows.
If it is the later, clearly the best solution would be to not purchase a phone with WP7 on it.

Clearly WP7 has a ton of social integration within the OS but I don't think it's going to be mandatory that you actually use the stuff. They are aiming the device at business as well as entertainment and I know some companies would not want their employees doing facebook on their work phones. I'm sure they've realized this and made it so those features just don't show up when you arent linked to a facebook account.

MooGoo said:
I know it is hard to believe that in this day and age there are people who do not spend half their day refreshing Facebook and Twitter. I personally do not even have an account at Facebook or Twitter or any other social networking site.
This is no problem as long as Facebook access is contained in an app that I can simply not launch. In WP7 however, from what I've seen of it at least, the social networking aspects seem completely unavoidable.
Whenever I go into contacts or people or whatever they are calling it, there will be a whole "What's New" column (Facebook Wall or recent Tweets I guess?) that for me would be blank all the time. Then there is the option to "share" content with others that seems to appear on every other context menu in the OS.
I'll admit my knowledge of WP7 is so far only skin deep. It is just a lot of what I read about it talks about how well integrated it is with social networks.
So does anyone know how far this integration goes? Is it just a few features that can be easily ignored? Or is it so deeply weeded to the OS that it would be constantly in your way and difficult to remove, like IE used to be with Windows.
If it is the later, clearly the best solution would be to not purchase a phone with WP7 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 with a little difference.
What do people like us do who do have facebook and twitter account but since we are based in china they are completely blocked here. Facebook, twitter, dailymotion, youtube etc are mostly blocked and hence i see the integration in Win 7 not much useful. Though i do think it will offer a lot of uniqueness but for me it would be iphone in the very future when i decide to buy the phone.

+1
I hate face..shi..t and I don't need twitter
but, because I do not have an account on these sites would stop using WM7
sorry for my english.. is english-google.. XD

if you dont have a account then just dont sign in..its not mandatory, just an added feature that you can turn on if you want/need

I don't understand. If you don't use Facebook and Twitter then just... don't use it. What task could you possibly be trying to do that would say"must log in to Facebook to continue"? None
If you don't have Facebook feeds coming in there is nothing to avoid or ignore.. so what's the problem again?

burnblue said:
I don't understand. If you don't use Facebook and Twitter then just... don't use it. What task could you possibly be trying to do that would say"must log in to Facebook to continue"? None
If you don't have Facebook feeds coming in there is nothing to avoid or ignore.. so what's the problem again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure?
In the emulator at least, the column "What's New" is always there. Whether it be right next to the alphabetical list of contacts, or right next to the single contact info screen.
Also, because of the panorama display, you always see part of the next screen to your right. Then there is the fact that it is necessary to pan your way through contiguous screens to get to the one you want (there seems to be no way to skip over intervening screens/tabs).
These are the two main reasons which lead me to believe that this kind of integration is not something that can be simply disabled.
I never setup any Facebook account on the emulator.
Of course I realize that this is beta/alpha software I am dealing with. Hopefully Microsoft will be smart enough to remove social networking related tabs (screens, pages, what are they supposed to be called now?) if the appropriate accounts are not set up.

I don't see why a "share" option in a context menu or a "What's New" tab on a panel can't be shown if a person does not have social networking set up.
Take Sony Ericsson phones for example. MusicNow and stuff like a WAP browser don't simply "disappear" if you don't set it up. It's still there among the options.
Look at Nokia phones. Even if you don't set up an APN for use with internet, the option to click on a link from a SMS to launch a website would still appear. Whether you click on it is up to you.
The option to "share" in WP7 should always be there. Whether you click on it is up to you.

Hemant said:
What do people like us do who do have facebook and twitter account but since we are based in china they are completely blocked here. Facebook, twitter, dailymotion, youtube etc are mostly blocked and hence i see the integration in Win 7 not much useful. Though i do think it will offer a lot of uniqueness but for me it would be iphone in the very future when i decide to buy the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you can use a proxy or VPN service?

MooGoo said:
Are you sure?
In the emulator at least, the column "What's New" is always there. Whether it be right next to the alphabetical list of contacts, or right next to the single contact info screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the whats new maybe if you don't have Facebook/twitter linked it would just show recent SMS under peoples names or emails?

I'm going on the assumption that because the OEM developer documentation says that any OEM included applications 'must work without network/internet connectivity' that the OS will also work this way and there will be options to turn on and off the features.
It may turn out that we need to 'unlock' these features though as so far I've only seen it written in OEM info.

Interesting. Wouldn't that requirement exclude the inclusion of something like a weather application? Or does it just mean that the program would have to have the capability to cache data for offline use if necessary.

Even assuming that 'What's New' doesn't show you emails, SMS and other updates from that contact that have nothing to do with social networks...
you don't have to swipe over there.
With developers' ability to plug in, 'What's New' is at some point going to include some functionality you're interested in. Even if it's empty, that's no reason to disable it

I do hope you are correct about What's New being populated with emails/SMS etc, that would at least make some sense. But if this is not the case, I do not see why I should need to put up with an entirely worthless panel just on the off chance that some carrier may someday decide to put something there that interests me.
And why shouldn't I be able to disable it? If it is not disabled and just left empty as you suggest, I would indeed have to swipe it as the OS does not seem to provide a way to simply jump to the panel you want to see. This is another issue entirely, constantly having to swipe through unwanted content just to get the information you do want will get old very quickly.

MooGoo said:
And why shouldn't I be able to disable it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why shouldn't you be able to multi-task?
Why shouldn't you be able to develop in any language for any API that you want?
Why shouldn't you...

New to WP7

So I've finally joined the club and boy am I stoked. So, what are the first things one should do e.g. apps to get, slight customisation, games etc, help your fellow comrade.
I don't know if this thread has been done before, if not, maybe it could be a sticky?

the first advice i could give to you is: read the forums

That's the beauty of WP7. There's no real customization to be done and no real apps to get. You're good to go!
Sent from my GT-I9000M

APPS?
download OEM apps.
download what you need. Marketplace got almost everything
customization? you mean changing the color of the tiles? LOL

radeon_x said:
That's the beauty of WP7. There's no real customization to be done and no real apps to get. You're good to go!
Sent from my GT-I9000M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How adorable, another android troll. There's also no lag, a good music player, no fragmentation (It's good to know I can't buy a new phone and have it be outdated next week) and hell, gaming has already about caught up with Android. You guys have more, we have better.

z33dev33l said:
How adorable, another android troll. There's also no lag, a good music player, no fragmentation (It's good to know I can't buy a new phone and have it be outdated next week) and hell, gaming has already about caught up with Android. You guys have more, we have better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the problem is that the more you feed the trolls , they keep coming back for more.

i just realize that he is using a sgs...
eww.

saldawop said:
I guess the problem is that the more you feed the trolls , they keep coming back for more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's pretty much a greek tragedy how incompetent these android users are "LOL my phone OS is better than yours *tap 3 times before an app finally pulls up then swipe left or right and watch the lag roll in* Yup, totally better, I troll you."

Ha. That wasn't really a troll. I just meant there's no setup or critical apps you need to get the phone running. Just grab whatever catches your eye from the market and you're golden. I like that aspect of the platform compared to Android. Until you want your phone to do something a specific way, it's bliss.
Sent from my GT-I9000M

kappo78 said:
So I've finally joined the club and boy am I stoked. So, what are the first things one should do e.g. apps to get, slight customisation, games etc, help your fellow comrade.
I don't know if this thread has been done before, if not, maybe it could be a sticky?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the world of WP7. Care to share which device you acquired?

MartyLK said:
Welcome to the world of WP7. Care to share which device you acquired?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get it, aren't you the one who was pushing the WebOS users to outvote everything on that poll?

If you only get two games, get...
Ilomilo
Aphajax
Both will blow your mind into little wobbly pieces of grey blancmange and raspberry sauce. And all will be well in the world.
Wait! Someone's just put QUORUM down on a TW! Bastard!

radeon_x said:
That's the beauty of WP7. There's no real customization to be done and no real apps to get. You're good to go!
Sent from my GT-I9000M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on how you look at it.
Lacking the need for customization at a low level is good (Rooting to uninstall bloatware, etc.), but there are tons of instances where you have to hack the system up just to achieve trivial tasks. Adding Ringtons to you phone, accessing Camera Shutter options, changing the default Search Engine in the Browser (T-Mobile sets it to Google, and some Euro Carrier sets it to Yahoo!). Things like that. You can't even set a home page in the browser (so even though I can't stand searching through Google, there's no way to Set Bing as the home page and just open a new tab and search from there). The OS is literally devoid of options/settings that matter. Can't even toggle between EDGE and 3G to save battery without hacking the phone (and that hack doesn't even work for some phones).
These aren't deep customizations on any other smartphone platform, but for WP7 it requires going beyond rooting or jailbreaking an Android phone. It makes Android a bit easier to use than WP7 when you factor in OneClick Root apps and the ability to sideload applications without scouring threads/the internet for information to get this done (and installing a ridiculously big SDK on your computer - nevermind the fact that it requires a Windows PC as well).
Microsoft got it wrong.
The issue with Android settigs is not that there were too many. It's the way they are presented to the user. They're generally (especially in third party applications from independent devs) just thrown in the user face on one huge page. Decently organized options in groups or tabs... there's nothing wrong with that. They need to add tons of options for the system and stock applications, because making even trivial changes to some behaviors is impossible without going through more work than loading a custom ROM on an Android phone is right now.
Minimalistic is good if you do it right (iOS). Microsoft took it to the extreme and all it does is create a ton of usability faux pas.

z33dev33l said:
How adorable, another android troll. There's also no lag, a good music player, no fragmentation (It's good to know I can't buy a new phone and have it be outdated next week) and hell, gaming has already about caught up with Android. You guys have more, we have better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, you're trolling him.
He means that the stock functionality in the WP7 system is above and beyond Android and iOS. And it is. Everything comes from Microsoft, integrates nicely, and performs well. Aside from Microsoft and Manufacturer Apps (i.e. HTC, LG, Samsung Apps), there aren't that many apps that you need on a WP7 device to be functional - besides games. Twitter is missing in the People Hub, so that's a biggie, and the Facebook integration doesn't include all functionality, so you need that.
I suggest Twitter, Seesmic, Facebook (Seesmic because it includes both and is a nice hub to use when you don't need heavy duty FB/Twitter functionality). Microsoft has a ton of free apps that are useful. Your manufacturer (especially if HTC) will fill in many of the other gaps. Foursquare is in the Market.
Adobe Reader is in the market. Amazon and Amazon Kindle is there. eBay has a very nice App in the market. Messenger by Miyowa sadly I have to recommend it because it's the best of any Messenger app in the market at the moment.
If you have an HTC phone you don't need a weather app. The HTC Hub Tile is Live for Weather. If not, I recommend Weather bug or Microsoft's little weather app. Weather Channel is a 9MB app and I can't see how that ridiculous size is justified given how WeatherBug and Microsoft's weather app are both < 2MB (if not 1 or below).
Microsoft has a few free games to try out. AlphaJacks is like Words With Friends for Windows Mobile ("Try It" version is free forever, but Ad Supported). Haypi Kingdom is a nice strategy game that is multi-player (also available for iOS and Android, so there is no shortage of people to play with/against).
Office Apps aren't needed (Office Mobile)
NoteTaking Apps aren't needed (OneNote Mobile)
Exchange Clients aren't needed (In-Built Functionality)
Music Players aren't needed (Zune)
Radio Apps aren't needed (Zune)
Slacker and Last.FM exist for Internet Radio.
Shazam is available with Unlimited Tagging.
Microsoft has a List App in the market (and HTC has one in their Marketplace).
Poynt, AP Mobile, IMDb, Fandango are all there.
But there aren't many needed apps, TBQH. Most apps are slower to use than the web browser because they tend to take excessive amounts of time "Updating..." Loading a web browser or performing a voice search often outperforms them, IME.
I'd get the biggies. Personally I'd avoid crap that you don't necessarily need and use the space for stuff that matters (Music, Pictures, Documents, etc.).
You can save documents from SkyDrive to your computer by opening them up from the Office.Live.com website and saving them to your Office Hub in Office Mobile. OneNote Mobile Syncs perfectly. There is an option to keep your Camera Roll in Sync with SkyDrive (this can use a lot of data if you take lots of pictures).

N8ter said:
Actually, you're trolling him.
He means that the stock functionality in the WP7 system is above and beyond Android and iOS. And it is. Everything comes from Microsoft, integrates nicely, and performs well. Aside from Microsoft and Manufacturer Apps (i.e. HTC, LG, Samsung Apps), there aren't that many apps that you need on a WP7 device to be functional - besides games. Twitter is missing in the People Hub, so that's a biggie, and the Facebook integration doesn't include all functionality, so you need that.
I suggest Twitter, Seesmic, Facebook (Seesmic because it includes both and is a nice hub to use when you don't need heavy duty FB/Twitter functionality). Microsoft has a ton of free apps that are useful. Your manufacturer (especially if HTC) will fill in many of the other gaps. Foursquare is in the Market.
Adobe Reader is in the market. Amazon and Amazon Kindle is there. eBay has a very nice App in the market. Messenger by Miyowa sadly I have to recommend it because it's the best of any Messenger app in the market at the moment.
If you have an HTC phone you don't need a weather app. The HTC Hub Tile is Live for Weather. If not, I recommend Weather bug or Microsoft's little weather app. Weather Channel is a 9MB app and I can't see how that ridiculous size is justified given how WeatherBug and Microsoft's weather app are both < 2MB (if not 1 or below).
Microsoft has a few free games to try out. AlphaJacks is like Words With Friends for Windows Mobile ("Try It" version is free forever, but Ad Supported). Haypi Kingdom is a nice strategy game that is multi-player (also available for iOS and Android, so there is no shortage of people to play with/against).
Office Apps aren't needed (Office Mobile)
NoteTaking Apps aren't needed (OneNote Mobile)
Exchange Clients aren't needed (In-Built Functionality)
Music Players aren't needed (Zune)
Radio Apps aren't needed (Zune)
Slacker and Last.FM exist for Internet Radio.
Shazam is available with Unlimited Tagging.
Microsoft has a List App in the market (and HTC has one in their Marketplace).
Poynt, AP Mobile, IMDb, Fandango are all there.
But there aren't many needed apps, TBQH. Most apps are slower to use than the web browser because they tend to take excessive amounts of time "Updating..." Loading a web browser or performing a voice search often outperforms them, IME.
I'd get the biggies. Personally I'd avoid crap that you don't necessarily need and use the space for stuff that matters (Music, Pictures, Documents, etc.).
You can save documents from SkyDrive to your computer by opening them up from the Office.Live.com website and saving them to your Office Hub in Office Mobile. OneNote Mobile Syncs perfectly. There is an option to keep your Camera Roll in Sync with SkyDrive (this can use a lot of data if you take lots of pictures).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, no real apps to get doesn't exactly sound right. It makes it sound like anything released on this platform is bad.
To OP though, Ilomilo and Twin Blades are the only games I have that live up to my XBL expectations (and sadly I have most of them) there are other good games but Ilomilo overall. other than that Netflix is the only other one I'd deem necessary.

I knew exactly what he means when I read the post. Perhaps English isn't his first language, but it wasn't a hard statement to decipher...
Netflix is useless if you're not a subscriber, so I wouldn't deem it necessary at all. No one is going to subscribe to Netflix just to watch movies on a phone. Just doesn't make sense, IMO. If you're a subscriber, though, have it's nice to have...
The only necessary apps are those for social networking, and XBox Live Extras.
The Manufacturer Hub Apps (some/most of them) are a given.
TBQH, most smartphone OSes are like this. If the platform is missing something, like Android is, the Manufacturers usually add it in (ThinkFree Office, Amazon MP3, MobiTV, Exchange support, etc.).
One thing most of us forgot is Navigation Software. At this point if you want decent navigation with Turn-By-Turn directions, you're basically required to pay a subscription fee for TeleNav or whatever the phone comes with.
I've tried A-to-B Navigation. It's useless for all practical purposes.
Social Networking and Navigation Software are the only ones I'd say are necessary.
Also the Carriers are allowed to change the default search provider in Internet Explorer, so if you're a Bing user like me the usability of in-browser search is... terrible. T-Mobile Maps the Search button (and address bar search) in IE to Google and some Euro Carriers change it to Yahoo. Severely inconsistent and bad considering most people use the address bar to perform searches.
There is no option to change the default search provider. And performing that hack requires more manual labor than rooting and installing a custom ROM on an Android computer (and involves making registry changes, etc. on your Windows PC).

N8ter said:
I knew exactly what he means when I read the post. Perhaps English isn't his first language, but it wasn't a hard statement to decipher...
Netflix is useless if you're not a subscriber, so I wouldn't deem it necessary at all. No one is going to subscribe to Netflix just to watch movies on a phone. Just doesn't make sense, IMO. If you're a subscriber, though, have it's nice to have...
The only necessary apps are those for social networking, and XBox Live Extras.
The Manufacturer Hub Apps (some/most of them) are a given.
TBQH, most smartphone OSes are like this. If the platform is missing something, like Android is, the Manufacturers usually add it in (ThinkFree Office, Amazon MP3, MobiTV, Exchange support, etc.).
One thing most of us forgot is Navigation Software. At this point if you want decent navigation with Turn-By-Turn directions, you're basically required to pay a subscription fee for TeleNav or whatever the phone comes with.
I've tried A-to-B Navigation. It's useless for all practical purposes.
Social Networking and Navigation Software are the only ones I'd say are necessary.
Also the Carriers are allowed to change the default search provider in Internet Explorer, so if you're a Bing user like me the usability of in-browser search is... terrible. T-Mobile Maps the Search button (and address bar search) in IE to Google and some Euro Carriers change it to Yahoo. Severely inconsistent and bad considering most people use the address bar to perform searches.
There is no option to change the default search provider. And performing that hack requires more manual labor than rooting and installing a custom ROM on an Android computer (and involves making registry changes, etc. on your Windows PC).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not only that, but I wouldn't subscribe to any version of Netflix because of the cost. I watch maybe 2 to 4 rented movies a month. And some months, none. To have to pay a fee just to use Netflix is wasteful. Yet that's how NF works. I would, however, subscribe to NF if there was no fee. The only cost would be the rental charge.

I have to say the best game for Xbox Live is the Harvest. Feels like diablo with a sci fi twist. The bad thing though is if your a typical Xbox console gamer, you won't find much that will interest you on WP7.
I swear its a new puzzle or tower defense game ever week.

you can of course customise your lock screen, you could also install "pin to start" which apparently offers customised live tile (don't have it myself, not my type of thing". Apps wise, get the HTC You tube app if you have an HTC device, would also recommend pdf reader and the amazon kindle app (if you like books) beyond that, there are nearly 9000 apps to choose from - I think there are even a couple of "fart" apps if that floats your boat...........

I've already mentioned Adobe Acrobat Reader X and Amazon Kindle.
Not all applications have Live Tiles, and TBH without a Live Tile an app would have to be very important to merit a spot on you home screen (no one wants a home screen that scrolls for miles). I have issues keeping Seesmic/Twitter/Facebook on the Home Screen, for example, without a Live Tile. Games like AlphaJax are good cause the Tile is Live (tells you when it's your turn and how many games you have waiting on you, for example).
The HTC YouTube app is good, but it's only for HTC devices (I already said the Manufacturer apps were a given since they fill in obvious gaps in functionality i.e. YouTube, NotePad/List App, Flashlight, Attentive Phone, Live Weather Tile (HTC), Sound Enhancer, etc.).
The customization that I say is missing isn't really "customization" in the XDA-Developers sense.
Setting a Home Page in the Browser, Setting the Default Search Engine in the Browser, and Options for things like how long you want Toast Notifications to stay on the screen aren't any type of deep customization. It's simply a trivial setting that Microsoft needs to add. These things are missing all over the OS and need to be added in ASAP. It acually makes the OS a chore to use in many instances.
They also need to make carriers unable to alter the default search engine. It sucks for people who use a certain search engine, and makes it take 3x longer to perform searches if you don't want to go through Google. There just need to be an option for the three biggies (Bing, Yahoo, Google) or the ability to allow the bing homepage to set itself as the default search engine (or Yahoo, or Google).

WP7 philosophy: Are MS blocking some apps in order to impose their own services

Hello,
I have a sincere and honest question. I came to a conclusion but I hope I am wrong...
- I notice that several months after WP7's launch there is still no official Google Maps app, still no official YouTube app, still no Google Earth app, almost no GPS navigation apps with offline maps.
- All the non official Google Maps alternatives created by third party developers are pretty slow. I asked some developers why, and have been replied that the main reason is that Microsoft forces them to use the apparently sophisticated but very slow Bing map system based on Silverlight (for zooming). As a result the map image takes between 30 seconds to 1 full minute to display on my phone (what a shame). I tested and compared with two iPhone and Android phones using Google Maps, same place, same network, the map image appear in less than 10 seconds.
- Today Shape Services, the developer of IM+ announced that it will not have Windows Live Messenger support because Microsoft doesn’t allow it.
http://www.wpcentral.com/im-will-not-support-windows-live-messenger
Therefore I am starting to wonder why I cannot have Google Maps on my phone. Why so many GPS developers (such as CoPilot or Tom Tom) refuse to join WP7. Or why IM+ cannot have Windows Live Messenger support.... ??
And unfortunately my conclusion is that MS are maybe taking this terrible approach:
* MS refuse to allow apps that they think will duplicate functionality,
* Mainly MS actually want to impose their own services, such as Live Messenger, Skydrive, Bing and Bing Map, despite such services are either not available or mediocre in certain territories. In particular I am thinking of Bing Map which is so bad that it is almost unusable outside UK and US.
Microsoft have the right to take this kind of Apple's approach, ok. But then, as a customer, I would like to know it as soon as possible.
--> Practically does it mean that if I am using WP7 I will be forced to use Bing Map instead of Google Maps, MSN videos instead of YouTube, Bing instead of Google search, etc?
--> Practically does it mean that, as a customer, I will not have the choice between several alternative apps having similar functionality, just because MS will not allow them? For instance, does it mean I will never have the right to use an alternative Keyboard (Swype for instance) instead of the keyboard MS force me to use?
For instance does it mean that there will be no alternative player than Zune? (which also means no DivX|avi, the customer being bound to the only codecs MS will allow)
If so, I would like to know, because it's a weird philosophy, and a philosophy which I am definitely not ready to accept anytime soon... I don't want WP7 to be a new IPhone, even more locked down, with no freedom of choice at all...
Especially if I am totally not satisfied with the quality and efficiency of the various MS services such as Bing.
I probably made the wrong choice after WinMo and was maybe silly to stay loyal to MS.
Am I wrong?
Any clue?

It is google blocking its services from microsoft. They want android to succeed so they dont even give us the code for a youtube app (they gave it to apple for the origional iphone) let alone a google maps. Half of that is pure speculation so don't quote me on it but u try to watch a video in the stock YouTube app (the one in the market made by microsoft) and tell me how it looks.

Not sure why you are surprised, MS has made it clear that WP7 is going to be more tightly controlled than WM was but even then, they are not as draconian as you think. There is a gps program with offline maps available in Germany, Navigon. They have been asked several times if/when their program would be available elsewhere and their response seemed to indicate they were waiting for more users to come on board before releasing it.
As for youtube, MS recently filed a complaint in Europe against google claiming they are not allowing MS the proper access to deliver a better youtube experience. Even then, you have Supertube and Lazytube so I'm not sure what else is needed.
As for google maps, thats a google product and unless it is required that all mapping programs use bing (which is not the case, check GPS Navigator aSpass http://wmpoweruser.com/gps-navigator-aspass-provides-off-like-gps-map-caching/) that is up to google to make available. Swype wont be happening, been said a few time if I recall correctly.
Seems this time around MS it keeping a tight reign on certain categories of applications to ensure WP7 gives a consistent user experience. Just another factor to consider before purchasing a WP7 device.

Thanks for your replies,
So, i understand that WP7 will never have any official YouTube app or any official Google Maps app in the near future.
I can deal with LazyTube/SuperTube to replace YouTube
I cannot deal without the official Google Maps app, as all the other maps are too slow and too basic (no PoI, no Street View, etc).
And what about the fact that Microsoft refuses that Shape Services includes Windows Live Messenger support in IM+
And mainly, what about the fact that it seems almost impossible on WP7 to have:
- an alternative keyboard
- an alternative browser
- an alternative media player?
Whatever IE mobile is ok, whatever the WP7 keyboard is correct, it is a question of choice.
What about if people would like to use Swype instead of the regular WP7 keyboard, or Opera instead of IE?
At least would it be just possible to use such alternative programs? Or is MS' approach to forbid any alternative app?

efjay said:
Seems this time around MS it keeping a tight reign on certain categories of applications to ensure WP7 gives a consistent user experience. Just another factor to consider before purchasing a WP7 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be fine only if services proposed by Microsoft were available worldwide (which is not the case) and were decent (which is not the case).

Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)

Newness and Nokia
Hi all
I think that the problems and limitations of WP7 are to do with the fact that it is a new OS. The Mango update will bring a lot of APIs which developers will use to make better applications.
Also, I don't think Microsoft will let WP7, or any of it's main products, fall far behind the competition and I think that part of the deal with Nokia is to bring better mapping/navigation software to WP7 specifically.
Android has clearly had a lot more investment but in a couple of years WP7 will be a serious competitor.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking

arturobandini said:
Hello...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've expressed your issues with Bing Maps a lot here but as I said before Microsoft is probably waiting on Ovi Maps to integrate into the OS to make the services useful outside of the US/UK. So I think your frustration will last a little while.
As for Google services I would guess it's more about Google not being interested in WP7 at the moment and Microsoft being happy to have that pretext to promote Bing. It's a new OS so I'm sure that will change eventually. Also remember Microsoft filed a complaint about Google so I might not be too far off.
Copilot, Tom Tom, etc. not being there is just about them not seeing the point with a small user base, that should change too eventually.
Now choice I'm afraid will stay limited. I think clearly WP7 wants to be somewhere between Android and iOS but much closer to iOS (for now at least). I think they will want the OS to mature before allowing alternative solutions (Opera and Skyfire came a while later on iOS). So yes I think you bought the wrong phone as I doubt all this will change in the short term and maybe Android is what you need until WP7 is a strong player.
Personally I'm happy the way things are as WP7 aims to be an OS about integration and that's harder to make when there's too much choice. I'm annoyed about IM+ not having WLM messenger but after Mango that would have been redundant (I would have preferred to have it until Mango, they could have removed it later). Ideally they should be aiming to integrate all IM services to messaging (a huge task). Same goes for other services.

gremmmy said:
Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surfcube is still IE at its core though.

gremmmy said:
Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not completely correct. Surfcube - just like other browsers available on the marketplace - is built upon the IE engine. So all that's different from IE is the UI on top of the engine. Currently it's impossible to provide browsers with other engines like Opera for example due to the lack of APIs. I don't know whether this will change with mango or not.
As a matter of fact, Microsoft is at least partly going a way Apple has been going with their products for years. If you want a mobile device with an OS that you can tweak to your personal desires, you should go for an Android.

Remember, APIs for wp are in their infancy, mango will extend them, who knows how much. But a company like Microsoft push out they first party app and services first is fine with me. If they work right, I won't have to look for an app that does the exact same thing. I love the fact that I don't have to load a crappy Facebook app just to post one thing, or having a built-in upload to Facebook in the camera. And now with the new APIs with integrating apps into different hubs and apps, should "save us from our phones" more.
And for IM+ it could be API isn't available for Live messager.

I'm afraid we won't see any Google Maps before Ovi integration with Bing.
As for browsers all available now are just IE with different UI.
I remember Opera saying they are not interested in making a browser right now.

no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.

pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the most used IM client worldwide.

pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why didn't you just have him go to www.live.com?
And as stated, its the most used IM in the world. Skype is second.

pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
skype will have Microsoft logo soon..... and it will be on WP7 included in the OS...
and as someone said Windows live massanger is the most used IM in the world..

if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
as you can see they talk about a a "deal" between miyowa and microsoft for wlm
http://blog.miyowa.com/?p=1118
just search more posts and you can see they mention multiple times have some sort of agreement...
i know its far fetched but i think its more likely that the agreement they made included exclusivity until ms made their own native app. IMO this sounds more reasonable than not allowing duplicated functionality
edit:
personally i hate this, i would like to uninstall the miyowa app (its crap) and use im+ while we wait for native wlm.

revrak said:
if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
as you can see they talk about a a "deal" between miyowa and microsoft for wlm
http://blog.miyowa.com/?p=1118
just search more posts and you can see they mention multiple times have some sort of agreement...
i know its far fetched but i think its more likely that the agreement they made included exclusivity until ms made their own native app. IMO this sounds more reasonable than not allowing duplicated functionality
edit:
personally i hate this, i would like to uninstall the miyowa app (its crap) and use im+ while we wait for native wlm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might have a point there as everything gets dropped except Miyoma Messenger which is so crap I'd rather not have WLM rather than using it. They should be banned from making another app ever again.

revrak said:
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or it may be with the way IM+ implemented WLM functionality. This could've taken some reverse engineering.

revrak said:
if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And don't forget that just-added official Evernote app, which kind of directly competes with the OneNote/SkyDrive/Mesh combo (and currently beats it, IMO).

Most missed feature...

Here's the thing...I am planning on making my next phone either the new Nokia or the Focus S pretty much whichever releases first. I came from a 3gs and now have a Captivate and I want WP7 users to tell me the top things they miss from their previous OS...whether it be Android or IPhone. I am pretty much trying to figure out what I am going to be giving up in the switch to WP7. Thanks for any replies and no trolls please lol.

I think in general you'll be gaining a very trouble free, polished, and well integrated experience, while giving up more customization and a giant marketplace. i think coming from ios and android the biggest things you'll miss are your apps, if you were a big app user.

Notifications. WP doesn't show your notifications in one place like Android or even a popup like ios. You have to have the app pinned the home screen. If you have a lot of apps this could get annoying
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Oh and no google apps on WP. No Gmail no maps no voice. Not official ones anyway
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I know I lose words with friends but i'm sure there is a replacement of some kind in the app store plus xbox live integration will even that our for me (hopefully). Missed calls and messages are really the only important notifications I need. I do use gmail as my main email tho so will that cause any problems? Also how does bing maps compare to google maps? Nokia drive looks really nice if I go that route. What about any kind if visual voicemail? Any alternatives to google voice?

Gurgs said:
I know I lose words with friends but i'm sure there is a replacement of some kind in the app store plus xbox live integration will even that our for me (hopefully). Missed calls and messages are really the only important notifications I need. I do use gmail as my main email tho so will that cause any problems? Also how does bing maps compare to google maps? Nokia drive looks really nice if I go that route. What about any kind if visual voicemail? Any alternatives to google voice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see icons/numbers for missed calls, messages, emails on the lock screen and on the live tiles and there are notifications for all of them.
You can use GMail with the mail client (IMAP), also Google Calendar works fine. I am not sure about Bing Maps in the US but here in Austria it's useless. But there is a good (free) unofficial Google Maps app. Visual voicemail is only supported by some carriers.

Gurgs said:
Here's the thing...I am planning on making my next phone either the new Nokia or the Focus S pretty much whichever releases first. I came from a 3gs and now have a Captivate and I want WP7 users to tell me the top things they miss from their previous OS...whether it be Android or IPhone. I am pretty much trying to figure out what I am going to be giving up in the switch to WP7. Thanks for any replies and no trolls please lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
abysmal support for instant messaging apps. That's my only gripe.

Words by post is the alternate. Its superior to words with friends imo
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I came from WM6.5. I miss the bluetooth support. WP7 does not have SPP, so no external bluetooth devices will work, only bluetooth headsets etc. I can't use my bluetooth external GPS. Since my LG has a really poor GPS, this really bites.
Other than that, I really like the WP7 experience now that Mango is out.

Big issues for me compared to IOS.
- Lack of apps. The big ones like Facebook have been ported, but little ones (like language learning apps and dictionaries) - forget it.
- Lack of games. Always playing with my ipod touch, never play with my WP7 phone. Not enough good titles.
- No audio scrubbing in music player. Can't fast forward properly or jump around in tracks - makes it useless to for playing podcasts/audiobooks. Still have to use my ipod for listening to language CDs.
- Poor support for podcasts imported from Itunes. They appear in random order, also much prefer itunes to zune.
- No way to backup a WP7 phone. If you lose your phone or have to upgrade your firmware, wave goodbye to all your save data, settings and sms messages. You'll also have to manually re-install all of your apps.

karan1203 said:
Words by post is the alternate. Its superior to words with friends imo
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is words by post cross platform? WP7 -> iPhone? My wife has the 4s and that would be great...

Notifications, Swype (I like typing with one hand), screen orientation lock and LED flash light app.
Other than that, there are little limitations here and there that will probably be addressed in the future updates.

topkop said:
Notifications, Swype (I like typing with one hand), screen orientation lock and LED flash light app.
Other than that, there are little limitations here and there that will probably be addressed in the future updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there only one choice for keyboard in WP7? If so how does it compare to stock keyboards on other platforms?

Gurgs said:
Is there only one choice for keyboard in WP7? If so how does it compare to stock keyboards on other platforms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is just 1 keyboard with Windows Phone 7.
I used to use Swype with Windows Mobile.
The keyboard for Windows phone 7 does have autmatic corrections and word suggestions. It ends up being just as fast as swype.
I have a quantum, which also has a real physical keyboard, which is nice when typing a long email.
No issues with the on screen keyboard. It works very well.

Aphasaic2002 said:
- Poor support for podcasts imported from Itunes. They appear in random order, also much prefer itunes to zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, podcast handling is one of the things I like in Windows Phone! I used to download podcasts using ITunes and using Zune to sync to the phone. There is an easier way.
Now I have the phone automatically download and manage the podcasts itself (without using a PC). The phone downloads podcasts automatically when it is plugged into power and connected to Wifi. I've set it to keep the last 5 episodes of each podcast - works great so far and less hassle than launching iTunes every day!
More details here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1286101

Gurgs said:
Is words by post cross platform? WP7 -> iPhone? My wife has the 4s and that would be great...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Words by Post is on WP, Android & iOS so yes.

Audio and Video Scrubbing. How this was missing in 2010 let alone 2011 just doesn't make sense.

Gurgs said:
I know I lose words with friends but i'm sure there is a replacement of some kind in the app store plus xbox live integration will even that our for me (hopefully). Missed calls and messages are really the only important notifications I need. I do use gmail as my main email tho so will that cause any problems? Also how does bing maps compare to google maps? Nokia drive looks really nice if I go that route. What about any kind if visual voicemail? Any alternatives to google voice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YouMail has an app called Magikmail that work as a Visual VM replacement unless AT&T gets its act together.
Bing Maps works very well for everything except a decent driving GPS, but a $5 app called Turn-by-Turn directions fixes that for me.
Missed calls and Messages- you'll have no problem at all with the very good notifications on the tiles for those, as well as the notifications on the lockscreen.
There are a few GV apps in the marketplace that work decently well.
Words with Friends alternatives- Alphajax and Words by Post
Other than that, I miss the LED notifications and being able to have a lastpass plugin for my browser. Overall, not really much that I miss from the other 2 options and a lot to like in WP7 over them.
---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------
Aphasaic2002 said:
Big issues for me compared to IOS.
- Lack of apps. The big ones like Facebook have been ported, but little ones (like language learning apps and dictionaries) - forget it.
- Lack of games. Always playing with my ipod touch, never play with my WP7 phone. Not enough good titles.
- No audio scrubbing in music player. Can't fast forward properly or jump around in tracks - makes it useless to for playing podcasts/audiobooks. Still have to use my ipod for listening to language CDs.
- Poor support for podcasts imported from Itunes. They appear in random order, also much prefer itunes to zune.
- No way to backup a WP7 phone. If you lose your phone or have to upgrade your firmware, wave goodbye to all your save data, settings and sms messages. You'll also have to manually re-install all of your apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some good points here. I have only found 1-2 apps that I miss, but won't argue there are some things I'd like to have.
Haven't been upset by the audio issue- FF and REW work just fine for me. What am I missing that's so amazing?
Podcasts? No way- iTunes is horrible. Zune isn't that much better. Why use either? Just have the phone do it without needing to sync to either? Way past the iOS paradigm here.
Somewhat agree on the backup. Zune does do a backup when you do upgrades, but I think there's no way to do it otherwise. Annoying. And yes, until the Skydrive API is really more available, there aren't good methods for saving app data... but when it is, it'll be better than the other 2, assuming MS doesn't screw it up massively.

Well the Focus S coming out in two weeks pretty much answers which phone i'm getting. And this thread makes me realize i'm not giving up much of anything to leave Android, not to mention not having to flash a new ROM on my phone every week to keep up with the times lol

I think that the only things i miss from Android are...
•Tethering (new phones have it though, and possibly my HD7 via an update)
•TV Listings for Android (how is it that there is not a single app that can display all my US/Puerto Rico channel listings with shows and times? no... not a show tracker, i mean a full TV Guide)
•Adobe Flash (slow, buggy, laggy... but i could watch anything on the web )
•USB Mass storage (although i wonder why? come to think of it, i dont use it that much)
Still, the good FAR exceeds the bad here and my next phone will still be WP7 for sure!!! Titan or Focus S maybe (why TMO gets the crappy one???)

Mango vs iPhone 4S

This thread is dedictated strictly to specific advantages / disadvantages / differences / similarities of Mango compared to the iPhone 4S.
READ THIS ENTIRE POST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD
Both platforms have strengths. Both have weaknesses.
It will also be dedictated to differences in some core applications.
Some applications are not available to both platforms. Those will also be identified.
I will be reserving the first 5 posts to update specific differences.
I will also be reserving the next 5 posts, in case I want to expand to additional differences or comparisons.
I currently own an LG Quantum with Mango and an iPhone 4S. The Quantum is my personal phone. The iPhone was provided by work. I am not restricting the comparison to 1st generation Windows Phone hardware, but it is all I have to test with. Mango is Mango though, with few exceptions.
I actually really like both phones.
Post #2 dedicated to advatages of Windows Phone.
Post #3 dedicated to advatages of iPhone 4S
Post #4 dedicated to application differences.
Post #5 dedicated to application availability.
Please post replies with information you would like to see added to the posts.
Please post replies with other things you would like to see compared.
Keep all posts on topic. Be respectful. Do not bash other users or their posts.
I do not have an Android device. This thread is not a comparison to Android. Posts about android will be considered off topic and should not be responded to.
Keep in mind the forum rules and rule 15 regarding staying on topic.
As I discover information, I will update the 1st 10 posts as needed. Also, based on user posts, I will update the 1st 10 posts, if I am able to verify the information.
This thread is about specific advantages and disadvantages. So, when posting, please provide specific details. It is also intended to not be opinion based. Some opinion will be unavoidable, but facts should always be given. When posting for something to be added, it is also helpful if you can come up with the line to add to describe the advantage. I can usually do this, but copy and paste is alot easier.
Again:
This thread is about identifying specific advantages / disadvantages / differences / similarities between the two. Specific being the key.
General statements serve no purpose and only clutter the thread. There are 11000+ views of this thread. If everyone posted general opinions, the thread would quickly lose value and no longer be maintainable by me. I would be forced to close it or not maintain it.
I welcome and encourage posts that identify specific advantages / disadvantages / differences / similarities between the two platforms. Of course the first 10 posts should always be checked first to see if they have already been identified.
Thanks
JVH3

Mango Advantages
1. Pairing with blue tooth headsets and car stereos is more consistant. Although the iPhone 4S supports A2DP to play music. The iPhone 4S will not automatically pair to play audio through my Pioneer 7000BT. My Mango phone does. The iPhone does automatically pair to support phone calls through bluetooth. There are also some A2DP devices that the iPhone fully supports, but not all. Even when my iPhone 4S is paired with my car stereo for music, the car stereo controls do not work to control the track. This is because the iPhone 4S does not support AVCRP for many devices.
2. Large tiles make it easy to operate with one hand using your thumb. Live Tiles also have larger text making things easier to read. Clicking the icons on an iPhone is not as easily done in a one handed if you have big thumbs.
3. The people hub. A whole post could be dedicated to this. Post dedicated to the People Hub There was also a good write up on this at wpcentral WPCentral - People Hub Overview
4. A back button. Many screens on the iPhone put a back type button on it. It generally is in the upper left. It does not usually say back. And it is not always there. It is up to the app dev to put it in.
5. Many common tasks do not require a seperate app. See Post #23 for some examples. Most of these tasks have free apps available for iPhone, so it is not a huge advatage. But the integration of all this is very nice on Windows Phone 7. Facebook, Twitter, Linked In.
6. Choice of hardware. Some phones have a physical keyboard, such as the LG Quantum. No iPhone has a keyboard. The new Nokia 900 has a screen that is also good in sunlight like the iPhone.
7. Linked Inbox or multiple linked inboxes for selected accounts without linking all accounts. You can keep your work email in a seperate pinable account than all your personal accounts. This is very useful so the indicator will let you know if you have an email that is for work. And other non work emails will increment the indicator on the other tile or tiles.
8. Picture hub - Gives access to all you pics, including facebook pics and facebook contact pics. There was also a good write up on this at wpcentral WPCentral - Picture Hub Overview
9. Me hub - lets you update facebook status and see facebook updates that you care about.
10. (this was a duplicate, so I removed it, but left it in it's place rather than renumber)
11. Browser allows pinch to zoom when rendering a site usintg HTML5 and Canvas. (Tested with both using a site internally developed at the company I work for.) Ironically the web application was designed for the iPad. I can actually use it with Windows Phone 7, but everything is too small on the iPhone to be useful. I cannot share the URL. Work would not like that. Of course, since it is targetting the iPad, it works well on it.
12. Seperate list that shows unread mail. iPhone only gives and indicator by each unread message. This makes reading your unread mail easier.
13. Live Tile indicators for email and messages are not unread messages, but amount of new messages since you last pressed the tile to see the messages. (I don't need to mark 50 messages as read to get rid of the notification). Seeing the list is enough to clear the indicator. You can still see which ones have not been read.
Some advantage pointed out by sayonical here Post 31
14. Micorosoft Office is included at no extra charge.
15. Turn By Tap directions. Although you need to tap, it will recalculate if you deviate from the route after a tap.
Some OEMs such as HTC and Nokia provide applications built in to do tap free Turn by Turn directions. With the iPhone a 3rd party not built in app is always required to accomplish this.
Both HTC Locations and Nokia's app also provide offline navigation.
HTC Locations offline mode is free for 30 days, but Nokia's app is free with a Nokia phone.
HTC Locations online mode may be free after the 30 days. Someone that is using it for more than 30 days or can no longer use it after 30 days, please post so I can update this.
16. Bing integrates alot of functionality, such as barcode reading, music identification, applications for your search, local scout. (There is a Bing app for free for the iPhone by Microsoft, but it's included with Windows Phone)
17. Ability to edit meeting notes to meetings that you did not create. The edits are for you only, but do make the update in exchange. Post 41
18. SIP Keyboard (on screen) is bigger and changes the display to reflect the case A vs a, so you know what you are going to type. Useful when entering passwords.
19. Built in AM/FM Radio. Data is not needed to get music. Useful when at work on a company plan with data limits and WiFi Restrictions. Also useful an health clubs to listen to the audio for the TVs. Also, see Post 41
20. Automatic word suggestion when typing. Shows a list of words to pick. The iPhone automatically corrects words and suggests a single word.
21. Tell Me - It has similarities to Siri, but there are some things Siri does better, just like there are some things Tell Me does better. I am putting this as an advatage for both. I will use a post to outline some differences.
22. Zune Pass
23. Unlimited Sky Drive space for Photos for Free.
24. Ability to directly share a photo in Facebook, while viewing the photo and not first being in Facebook. details: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=20815029&postcount=99
25. Ability to set the fetch frequency and enable or disable push email on a per-account basis. iPhone fetch frequency is a setting for all accounts. With the iPhone, you can have multiple push accounts and multiple poll accounts. But the poll accounts all poll at the same frequency. With Windows Phone, I can have one account poll every hour, another poll every 15 minutes, and another be a push account.
26. (For Windows users only) Pictures taken on a Mango phone display properly on Windows computer's default programs. Windows 7, Vista, and anything earlier do not properly support the rotational information in the EXIF information on jpegs. It does actually support EXIF, just not the rotational information when rendering. iPhone uses EXIF to set the rotation. Also, no web browser other than Safari supports EXIF for orientation. Although the fault lies with Microsoft for viewing in the OS, the result is extra work to make the pictures taken from an iPhone display with correct orientation on Windows machines. Other programs can be used to view the pictures and there are lossless ways to rotate them. Nonetheless, it is still additional work to view them on Windows computers. Less work for those you share with is an advantage.
27. Ability to use full website without being redirected to a mobile version. On the iPhone, some sites redirect you to the mobile version. And there is not a way to use the full version unless the site provides a link to it. Not all sites provide this. There are apps for the iPhone (JourneyLite and Mercury are 2) that allows full browsing after telling it to simulate IE9.
28. Multiple User Groups - link to post with details - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=21419216&postcount=153
29. Bing Maps can find some old established addresses correctly that the iPhone Maps cannot. (note Bing Maps is available for free on the iPhone, but Siri and most, in not all, integrations will not use it). (I will edit this if anyone can post a verifiable address that Bing incorrectly finds, but the iPhone maps correctly finds.) discusssions on this start here
30. Ability to snooze an appointment. With the iPhone, if you have a meeting scheduled for 2:00 PM and are set to be reminded 15 minutes before, you will get notified at 1:45 PM. But there is not way to snooze for 10 minutes and get notified again at 1:55 PM.
31. Rescheduled appointments from Exchange work properly. The iPhone asks if you want to rescheule the meeting or all meetings, even though the original rescheduler defined this when rescheduling.
...
more to come

iPhone Advantages
1. The 4 column grid lets you see more applications at once. The pages of apps to launch also makes it so it is easy to find the applications that you have.
2. Applications are very mature on this platform. Some include additional features or details not in the Windows Phone version.
3. There are more applications available. They are normally cheaper as well.
4. The physical switch to turn off the sound.
5. Battery life. With WiFi on and in use all day on my iPhone, I still have 75% charge. My Quantum has had WiFi and BlueTooth turned off and only has 50% power left. This may be a gen 1 vs gen 2 issue for Widows Phone 7 devices, but it is all I can compare. Maybe some new Titan users can comment.
6. iPhone allows any type of background process. This means that any app, such as Glympse can update send your location while in the background. It also means that features in some apps will not be present in the Windows Phone 7 version that do this, because Windows Phone does not allow this. See Post #142 for details.
Items 7 to 16 were identified by Vetvito here: Post #34
7. "Cut" - both have copy and paste.
8. Games: In game voice chat - able to trade game items with other players
9. browser has a forward button and find on page function (confirmed to not be in Win Phone 7)
10. Integration with all apple products including apple tv
11. Video MMS - iPhone can send and receive. Windows Phone 7 can receive them and play them, but it can not send them.
12. notification bar with widgets and unified notification access from the lock screen
13. Basic photo editting is built in.
14. iTunes Match - 14, 15, and 16 described here: Post #40
15. emoji icons
16. Safari Reader - removes distractions, such as ads and makes it mpore like a pdf.
17. Massive amounts of hardware made specifically for iPhones which ensures full compatiblity.
18. Compass is perfect on the iPhone. Often times, it is incorrect on my LG Quantum. Maybe someone can comment on a Gen 2 Windows Phone 7 or a different model to see if it is better.
19. Landscape support when playing music.
20. Siri - It has similarities to Tell Me, but there are some things Siri does better, just like there are some things Tell Me does better. I am putting this as an advatage for both. I will use a post to outline some differences.
21. Music - shake to shuffle - takes you to a different song if you don't want to listen to what is playing. (can't use back arrow to go back to the song though)
22. Better backup and restore system. (backs up more than just purchased apps and everything can be in iTunes or the iCloud by user choice).
23. On January 1st there will be no YouTube player for Mango that supports HD video.
24. Ability to enable and disable location services on a per-app basis in settings.
25. Setting up caldav and subscribed calendars in iOS is a snap, where that capability doesn't exist on WP7. CalDav link for those that don't know what this is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV
26. Able to view Comcast video on demand through the xfinity.tv app. Although with a Blast Extra subscription many shows available on your laptop will not play through the app. More Details: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=20830665&postcount=111
27. Able to Stream Dish Network video with an app from the DVR if the DVR receiver is new enough. Ability to use DirectTV Nomad app with $150 additional hardware to get direcTV videos onto the DirecTV DVR
28. Safari on the iPhone 4S renders some mobile sites with slightly incorrect HTML or CSS better for the user where some mobile sites are not usable in the mobile version by Windows Phone 7.
29. Ability to take screen captures, which is very useful when asking for help or illustrating steps.
30. Ability to group programs into folders
31. iMessage - this allows iPhone users to text message iPhone users without counting as text messages. This spans carriers. There are many free messaging programs available to all platforms, so this is not a huge advantage. Windows Phone 7 delivers free messaging through Facebook integration so long as the users are friends on Facebook. Pick your evil here. To text for free using the built in solutions, with the iPhone friends all have to support Apple or on Windows Phone friends all need to be friends on Facebook.
32. Outlook Syncronization through USB. This is not possible with Windows Phone. Windows Phone requires over the air syncronization, such as with an Exchange Server or gmail or Windows Live. Many don't consider this to be a huge issue, since there are plenty of free over the air solutions and the growing trend is to not tie devices to a PC. (the cloud is the future). But if you feel strongly that you need to tether to Outlook, Windows Phone will not do that.
33. iCloud syncronization with other devices - With Apple products, iCloud will automatically sync apps, music, video to all devices registered with the Apple Id.
34. Better pixel density and resolution.
35. FaceTime is built in - (Video Messaging for iPhone to iPhone or other Apple product such as an iPad). Advantage is not great since Skype and Tango are free and available on all major platforms. FaceTime is only available for Apple products.
36. PhotoStream - streams pictures from the phone over WiFi to your computer. Full resolution is preserved. With Windows Phone - Sky Drive, it syncs over the air and does not require WiFi, but it adjusts the pixel resolution (I need to verify whether this is configurable).
37. Ability to open links from a page in a new tab without navigating switching to the tab. (considering dedicating a post to browser advantages and disadvantages) Safari for iPhone vs IE for Mango
...
more to come

Application differences
Windows Phone 7 applications tend to use the Metro UI to be consistent with the platform.
The iPhone tends to be consitent with the way iPhone applications run.
Facebook
Seemed to be pretty much the same on both.
The iPhone app does give easier access to the features and might let you do more.
Twitter
Seemed to be pretty much the same on both.
Foursquare
Seemed to be pretty much the same on both.
Glympse
Windows Phone 7 does not update your location when the app is not the foreground application.
iHeart Radio
Seemed to be pretty much the same on both.
Tango
Seemed to be pretty much the same on both.
Angry Birds
Seemed to be pretty much the same on both. iPhone has more versions and levels.
Flashlight Apps
Both have Flashlight apps that work identically. See post #14 for a link to download the Windows Phone 7 app (Flashlight-X) that works just like iTorch4.
Note: This requires an LED flash. All iPhones have and LED flash. All Windows Phones have a flash, but LED is not required. If a flashlight app is required, make sure to get a phone with an LED flash.
LG Panorama Shot vs Dermandar - Both are free apps to create panoramic pictures.
On the iPhone, you can do a full 360, are just any interval in between. It will also create a 3D type viewing of the area. But both make excellent panoramic pics with no visible problems near the stitching.
Yelp (finds nearby businesses)
Seems very similar on both platforms. iPhone wanted alot more info on the start that can be skipped.
DirecTV (Not Nomad)
Both are pretty similar and let you do the same things.

Application Availability
This is not going to include all applications. There are almost 50,000 available for Windows Phone 7. There are more available for the iPhone. I am not going to include apps that are alternate interfaces to other services.
Available on iPhone, but not Windows Phone 7
Most versions of Angry Birds.
Available for Windows Phone 7, but not on iPhone
Availbable for both
Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare, Glympse, Shazam, Tango, You Tube, Angry Birds, Flixster, Fly Delta, Adobe Reader
Apps for Google Voice, Pandora, Skype
Games
There are games available only for Windows Phone 7, that are not available for iPhone.
There are games available for iPhone that are not available for Windows Phone 7.
I am not going to list them for either.
Updates:
Since MetroRadio works for Pandora on Mango, I removed Pandora from the list of unavailable apps.

Similarities
Positive
Both easily let you sync with an Exchange server. (Email, Appointments, Tasks, and Contacts)
Both let you easily find and install apps.
Both autmatically notify you of application updates.
Both let you text message by voice.
Both have ways of streaming music and video.
Both have built in maps with navigation.
Both will give you weather updates.
Both support HTML 5.
Both give fast access to the camera when the device is locked.
Both support and have multi player games.
Both have Google Voice Applications.
Negative
Using either Bing on Mango or Maps on the iPhone to find nearby locations often times does not find the closest option. Each is better or worse depending on the location. iPhone is better in some areas and Bing is better in others.
BOTH still lack the ability to create complex repeat patterns for appointments.

Differences
Swipe left on iPhone to get to search. On Windows Phone 7, there is a search button.
Live Tiles vs icons. It seems that some icons do update on the iPhone, such as the Calander, but the weather icon always says 73 degrees. On Windows Phone 7, the tile shows the temp.
iTunes verses Zune.
Press the button to then launch camera without unlocking verses pressing and holding the dedicated camera button.

iTunes vs Zune
iTunes
Create ringtone by converting to m3a and renaming to m3r. Then drag to Tones.
Backs up all apps to your computer from the phone.
File-Add File to Library or Add Folder to Library. No way to remove a folder. Must remove songs 1 at a time.
Zune
Create ringtone by setting genre to Ringtone.
All app purchases will automatically restore if you need a replacement phone or restore.
Backs up phone OS to computer when updating. Not sure about settings and accounts.
Easy to add and remove directories for Zune to automatically add to it's library while keeping the music in the original location
Both
Easy to make and manage playlists.
More to come.

Reserved for future comparisons 4
Reserved for future comparisons 4

Reserved for future comparisons 5
Reserved for future comparisons 5

The People Hub in Mango
This will be dedicated to the People Hub.

Nice to see you here on wp7
nice and clean thread for now.
lets hope it will stay like that, we don't want a war here.
do you need this post place to ?
if yes I can remove it for you.

ceesheim said:
Nice to see you here on wp7
nice and clean thread for now.
lets hope it will stay like that, we don't want a war here.
do you need this post place to ?
if yes I can remove it for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want to keep this thread objective and clean. So many are lopsided and become war zones.
I have enough posts reserved for anything else I may want to add
I've had my Quantum since the end of August. And work just gave me an iPhone 4S, so I figured I'd do a side by side comparison.
Coming from Windows Mobile and custom ROMs, I did not expect to like either, but have found both to be very good.

You can find, on MarketPlace, apps that not blinking the camera led flash.
One example : http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/2638b778-5eab-45f1-a511-a08e1dbde751

dada051 said:
You can find, on MarketPlace, apps that not blinking the camera led flash.
One example : http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/2638b778-5eab-45f1-a511-a08e1dbde751
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice tip. I am installing and testing it now.
Tested and verified. I am updating the post now.

I believe that it exists exclusive app in marketplace in the US.
Arcane's Tower Defense is an exclusive WP7 game.

Wp7 certainly feels smoother and the apps that aren't simply ports seem to run smoother on wp7. Words by post for instance is much smoother on wp7.

Nice objective comparison!
I own a quantum as well and I love it.
Perhaps one difference you can point out is that on wp7 you have choices of different hardware (like a physical keyboard if that's important to you)

I think Angry Birds on iOS/Android has significantly more levels.
Foursquare for iOS5 allows for the Radar feature (http://blog.foursquare.com/2011/10/12/the-real-world-now-in-real-time-say-hi-to-foursquare-radar/) which, like Glympse, won't be possible until Microsoft provides a background location service.
Other apps affected by the lack of background location services include GPS and the run tracker type apps.
Maybe you should include a section about multitasking in general.

great idea for a post it can help a lot of people who may or may not want to switch