Develop Bugs

Skyfire out for touch hd

apologeez if this article has already been made but too excited to care. just installed skyfire on my htc touch hd and it works. go to skyfire.com and download it.

Is this likely to be better than Opera already preinstalled?

I'm afraid it's still the same upscaled vga version that's been out for a while.

clown is correct, it's still an improvement over the old skyfire with which you had to use vgaFix with (even nice then alpha), but it's still not quite it.
Also, clown, I have a question (hope you read this), since you're using Dutty's Rom....do people know that if you add where you live to the world clock, it will sync with the weather and display it in the New Appointment in Calander? I don't want to start a thread if everyone already knows.
Thanks

It does 'work', in the sense you can see Flash/video content in-page, but it's important to remember Skyfire is a proxy browser - everything goes via their own server first, and all your form filling goes back through their servers too.
I'm liking the rich media, but not enough to risk them seeing my credit card details, passwords and browsing history!

Tried it a couple of times, and tbh, it's slow as hell.
Think I'll be taking it off soon.

c_lee said:
It does 'work', in the sense you can see Flash/video content in-page, but it's important to remember Skyfire is a proxy browser - everything goes via their own server first, and all your form filling goes back through their servers too.
I'm liking the rich media, but not enough to risk them seeing my credit card details, passwords and browsing history!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somehow I doubt the $100k+ salary microsoft engineers care about your credit card number.... or would waste their time looking at your browsing history. Even if they were able to go through all that data and find your card number, you think they'd risk their job for the measily couple Ks in your bank account....ya I doubt that. Not to mention you're one of how many 100s of thousands of people using it daily. But hey, that's your perogative

Svegetto said:
Somehow I doubt the $100k+ salary microsoft engineers care about your credit card number.... or would waste their time looking at your browsing history. Even if they were able to go through all that data and find your card number, you think they'd risk their job for the measily couple Ks in your bank account....ya I doubt that. Not to mention you're one of how many 100s of thousands of people using it daily. But hey, that's your perogative
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the Microsoft bods I'd be worried about, and I believe that's the point...

c_lee said:
It does 'work', in the sense you can see Flash/video content in-page, but it's important to remember Skyfire is a proxy browser - everything goes via their own server first, and all your form filling goes back through their servers too.
I'm liking the rich media, but not enough to risk them seeing my credit card details, passwords and browsing history!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think; the opera mobile, o.mini, IE mobile etc. work in different way than the skyfire? You are wrong!
Like you said before : "everything goes via their own server first"
And the main benefit from it is that pages are loaded quicker.

Feromon said:
What do you think; the opera mobile, o.mini, IE mobile etc. work in different way than the skyfire? You are wrong!
Like you said before : "everything goes via their own server first"
And the main benefit from it is that pages are loaded quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera Mini uses proxying (it compresses to OBML) but in doing so they break end-to-end SSL, and so many secure sites (eBay etc.) refuse the traffic. Opera Mobile connects direct unless you specifically set up a proxy service. Skyfire uses the same concept as Opera Mini, and so breaks the SSL chain, but unlike O-mobile there's no option to turn it off. Because the proxy compression process results in unencrypted data on Skyfire's server (albeit transiently) a number of credit card companies have said the idea (based on how O-mini does it) breaks their rules on fraud protection, so the customer wouldn't be compensated if the card details were stolen.
IE Mobile on WM6.1 does not use proxying. Project Deepfish did, but that was closed in 2008 and the servers disconnected.

c_lee said:
Opera Mini uses proxying (it compresses to OBML) but in doing so they break end-to-end SSL, and so many secure sites (eBay etc.) refuse the traffic. Opera Mobile connects direct unless you specifically set up a proxy service. Skyfire uses the same concept as Opera Mini, and so breaks the SSL chain, but unlike O-mobile there's no option to turn it off. Because the proxy compression process results in unencrypted data on Skyfire's server (albeit transiently) a number of credit card companies have said the idea (based on how O-mini does it) breaks their rules on fraud protection, so the customer wouldn't be compensated if the card details were stolen.
IE Mobile on WM6.1 does not use proxying. Project Deepfish did, but that was closed in 2008 and the servers disconnected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's not quite true but maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if so...
Opera does exactly the same. Both Opera and Skyfire pre-render websites through their proxies, the difference being that Opera is text-based and Skyfire is image-based.
That's why Opera loads slower and scrolls quickes (loads the whole text part of the website at once), while Skyfire loads quicker and scrolls slower (loads only the visible part as compressed image, google maps style).

I really don't understand it....everytime I go to their web page I can't seem to download it eventhough I already selected touchscreen and click the download button, nuthin happens

Feromon said:
I think it's not quite true but maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if so...
Opera does exactly the same. Both Opera and Skyfire pre-render websites through their proxies, the difference being that Opera is text-based and Skyfire is image-based.
That's why Opera loads slower and scrolls quickes (loads the whole text part of the website at once), while Skyfire loads quicker and scrolls slower (loads only the visible part as compressed image, google maps style).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera Mobile is not using a proxy, Opera is however launching a new version with a option to use a proxy, search on Opera Turbo.

Top 3 third party applications

What are your top 3 third party applications that you would love to have on your Windows Phone 7 Series? Most used applications for your daily routines, works, entertainment, what not ... Top 3 applications that you have in mind when asked about mobile applications.
Interesting to know so we could see what users expect to have on WP7 in terms of application.
It does not have to be Windows Mobile 6.x applications. If you think certain iPhone / Android / BB / Symbian apps thats fine.
I start with my top 3:
1. Offline navigation software
- like TomTom, CoPilot, iGo.
2. Opera Mini
- I just love the speed, thats all.
3. Good Facebook client
- Microsoft has one for WM6, but I expect much better than that. I read that iPhone version is better.

I basically use my phone for calls, messages and development... being last one like the only reason why I didn't keep my cheap old Nokia phone. Sometimes I'm using weather, GPS, reading emails or google for this or that but that's all and I'm just happy that I just can do such things whenever I would need them. I'm not really a crazy apps freak....

Got to be iGo as one of them for me!

gogol said:
3. Good Facebook client
- Microsoft has one for WM6, but I expect much better than that. I read that iPhone version is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS comes with great facebook integration already built in, no need for an app!
My top apps are:
FPSeCE (Playstation Emulator)
Spacetime 4.0 (Graphing Calculator Software)
Pandora

I know that, but I have doubt with that Facebook integration.
Not that I am saying it is not good, but from what I saw ... the integration is split into 2 hubs ... People hub where you can see status update of your Facebook friends and Photo/Pictures hub where you can see Facebook photo albums of your friends.
With dedicated Facebook app, all those will come in the same flow of information.
Well, not a big deal really, because I am using http://touch.facebook.com via web browser (Opera Mini).
Kloc said:
The OS comes with great facebook integration already built in, no need for an app!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
Not that I am saying it is not good, but from what I saw ... the integration is split into 2 hubs ... People hub where you can see status update of your Facebook friends and Photo/Pictures hub where you can see Facebook photo albums of your friends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which, IMO, is the best approach possible. Heck, I might even start using Facebook this way. Why would I need that information in a separate application? Why would I want to view photos in anything but a photo viewing app? Or where else do I need contact information apart from the contact app?
Also, this approach theoretically should aggregate information from different networks in a way that makes sense. I mean, if you are a member of both Facebook and, say, Linked-In, would you really want two separate applications to handle data from these networks?

1.Opera Mobile 10
To read 3 different newspapers each morning on my Omnia II and have all my desktop bookmarks synced OTA to my phone. Been using Opera since v3.0 or so, love it.
2.GSPlayer
to listen to somafm.com !
3. Googlemaps
Works good enough, could be done much better (font size can not be set !) and leaks 2 DC's each time you start and stop it. Have to take another look at bing maps soon

Coreplayer!!!!!!!!
IGO
BattClock (used to display battery info)

For me, if I can reduce time spent then I will choose that way.
Instead of going into 2 hubs to read status updates AND photo updates, I would prefer to just go once to look them all
Like I said, this is not a big deal because there is facebook website itself which can be accessed via web browser.
Probably because I use facebook a lot
Oh yes, the idea of multiple social network integration is nice, dont get me wrong. Probably just because of that, I would start using Twitter! Atm I am only using FB.
vangrieg said:
Which, IMO, is the best approach possible. Heck, I might even start using Facebook this way. Why would I need that information in a separate application? Why would I want to view photos in anything but a photo viewing app? Or where else do I need contact information apart from the contact app?
Also, this approach theoretically should aggregate information from different networks in a way that makes sense. I mean, if you are a member of both Facebook and, say, Linked-In, would you really want two separate applications to handle data from these networks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Top applications: 'Real' Map-reader/GPS, Ebook reader,
Well, I might not be a typical user (and actually one of the things I liked about 'Windows Mobile Classic' was that it had a diverse ecosystem, catering for non-typical users!) but these are the two apps I use most:
1) A GPS/map-reader that works with real maps (i.e. topographic maps such as, in the UK, the Ordinance Survey series)
- so ideally, Memory-Map will port their software to WP7
2) An ebook reader that can read EPUB and TXT formats
- actually this is such an important use-case for me that I wrote a program to do it (see this thread). I expect to start porting it to WP7 just as soon as the SDK becomes available.

Windows Phone 7 is a paradigm-shift in how phones operate. Apps will no longer be individual screens, but will be subsumed into the overall user interface. Facebook is the most obvious example of that. If you take Tomtom, for instance, it will be peppered all over the phone in any of the following ways;
People Hub: Select a person and then hit the menu option to navigate to their home or workplace
Calendar Hub: Select a Calendar Entry and then hit the menu option to navigate to the Location of that entry.
Bing Search: Hit a search result to be navigated to its location if it is a real world place like a pizza restaurant, for instance. Once Tomtom is installed, instead of just the one option to be directed there by Bing Maps, you'll have a second option as well to navigate there by Tomtom.
Only once you're actually on the road will you get the Tomtom screen up with the 3D view of the road. The rest of the Tomtom UI will be embedded into these hubs.
I'd expect Twitter, Google Maps, Flickr etc to all melt into the phone's UI as simply extra menu options.
I think this is largely why the App list accessible from the home screen is so basic - it won't be the usual way to start an app. Normally the app will be called from a menu in part of one of the hubs. In this way, apps will organically feel like just an extension of the phone's usual functionality. Heck, I can even see the Photos hub doing something like footprints and recording the GPS coordinates, so you can use the Tomtom menu item in there to navigate to the place in the photo!
This is going to be totally awesome. And I think it's partly why the question of "Does it multitask" isn't so clear-cut...

I use my phone as a phone and as a PDA so most of what I need is already there (calendar, alarm, agenda, Excel, etc)
1) But I have to have an ewallet. I use SPB at the moment and fully expect them to port it to WP7.
2) I also would like some ereader that handles most file types (EPUB mostly).
Could care less about the whole Facebook/Twitter thing. Just hope they don't get in the way of how I use my phone. Will have to wait to see how the interface can be changed. If I have to have Facebook/Twitter in the middle of my processes I will probably not get a WP7 phone.

donnaw said:
Could care less about the whole Facebook/Twitter thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that doesn't make sense? Do you mean you could NOT care less?

I would like to see all my apps on it I hope I will be able to port them!

I love opera and youtube

giggles33 said:
I love opera and youtube
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera should be made redundant by the new version of IE contained in WP7S. Youtube will become a subsumed service as part of the Pictures & Videos hub in the UI, and will simply be another source of video from the cloud, in the same way that Facebook posted videos are. I would also imagine that the Bing search engine will return Youtube hits.
Basically, be prepared for apps to function in an entirely different way to what you're used to - they will become simply extensions of your phone's functionality - many apps will be able to avoid having their own screens at all and instead rely on the hubs to provide their input/output.

Jim Coleman said:
Opera should be made redundant by the new version of IE contained in WP7S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not likely that we'll see a version of Opera on WP7S as it's impossible to do a decent browser engine in managed code, because alternative browser makers will be the last to get access to native APIs (if ever), and probably IE will be much better than what we have now, but alternative browsers will not be made "redundant" by this. I can bet IE won't have text reflow, for example, which I personally love and severely miss when I try to use iPhone's Safari.

vangrieg said:
I can bet IE won't have text reflow, for example, which I personally love and severely miss when I try to use iPhone's Safari.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would lose that bet.

I would like to see Skype on Win Phone 7

Making competitors (Opera must earn a lot of money with their OEM deals) redundant is just plainly impossible nowadays without some sort of "deal" made. It's really very interesting what will happen soon.

touch.facebook.com

Anyone else notice if you click on a link that takes you to facebook, it opens IE and directs to touch.facebook.com, which at least on my hd7, doesn't work right.
I have to switch it to m.facebook.com
This shows up mainly when I respond to facebook friend requests that show up in my email.

Apparently, according to a dev I read who worked on Mobile Safari and android browsers, web apps developed for those two such as touch.facebook.com won't work in Mobile IE for now. I'm not sure why though, sorry man

zukа said:
Apparently, according to a dev I read who worked on Mobile Safari and android browsers, web apps developed for those two such as touch.facebook.com won't work in Mobile IE for now. I'm not sure why though, sorry man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's ok. Just wished that if I click a facebook link, IE wouldn't redirect to touch.facebook.com if it doesn't work.

nrfitchett4 said:
Anyone else notice if you click on a link that takes you to facebook, it opens IE and directs to touch.facebook.com, which at least on my hd7, doesn't work right.
I have to switch it to m.facebook.com
This shows up mainly when I respond to facebook friend requests that show up in my email.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing happens on Android (the redirection). If it's from an eMail (in the Email app or on the email site), then it's going to punt you to the website.
If you see a friend request in you email, it's not hard to open the Facebook app and accept it. Do you not get notifications for these?
HTML5 is coming to WP7's IE in an update next year.

N8ter said:
Same thing happens on Android (the redirection). If it's from an eMail (in the Email app or on the email site), then it's going to punt you to the website.
If you see a friend request in you email, it's not hard to open the Facebook app and accept it. Do you not get notifications for these?
HTML5 is coming to WP7's IE in an update next year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can just change the url once IE opens as well. I just wasn't sure if this was a wp7 issue, IE issue, phone issue.
Thanks for the clarification.

So are these "web apps" like facebook and gmail built with HTML5? Newb question, but i dont know much about that kinda stuff

I really hope Microsoft makes some improvements to IE with the January/February update.

zukа said:
So are these "web apps" like facebook and gmail built with HTML5? Newb question, but i dont know much about that kinda stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the more well knows ones arw optimized for webkit (i.e. Not opera, ie, etc.)...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

OGCF said:
I really hope Microsoft makes some improvements to IE with the January/February update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sounds like html5 support will be in the fall update. haven't heard about flash (except that it is being worked on).

WP7 philosophy: Are MS blocking some apps in order to impose their own services

Hello,
I have a sincere and honest question. I came to a conclusion but I hope I am wrong...
- I notice that several months after WP7's launch there is still no official Google Maps app, still no official YouTube app, still no Google Earth app, almost no GPS navigation apps with offline maps.
- All the non official Google Maps alternatives created by third party developers are pretty slow. I asked some developers why, and have been replied that the main reason is that Microsoft forces them to use the apparently sophisticated but very slow Bing map system based on Silverlight (for zooming). As a result the map image takes between 30 seconds to 1 full minute to display on my phone (what a shame). I tested and compared with two iPhone and Android phones using Google Maps, same place, same network, the map image appear in less than 10 seconds.
- Today Shape Services, the developer of IM+ announced that it will not have Windows Live Messenger support because Microsoft doesn’t allow it.
http://www.wpcentral.com/im-will-not-support-windows-live-messenger
Therefore I am starting to wonder why I cannot have Google Maps on my phone. Why so many GPS developers (such as CoPilot or Tom Tom) refuse to join WP7. Or why IM+ cannot have Windows Live Messenger support.... ??
And unfortunately my conclusion is that MS are maybe taking this terrible approach:
* MS refuse to allow apps that they think will duplicate functionality,
* Mainly MS actually want to impose their own services, such as Live Messenger, Skydrive, Bing and Bing Map, despite such services are either not available or mediocre in certain territories. In particular I am thinking of Bing Map which is so bad that it is almost unusable outside UK and US.
Microsoft have the right to take this kind of Apple's approach, ok. But then, as a customer, I would like to know it as soon as possible.
--> Practically does it mean that if I am using WP7 I will be forced to use Bing Map instead of Google Maps, MSN videos instead of YouTube, Bing instead of Google search, etc?
--> Practically does it mean that, as a customer, I will not have the choice between several alternative apps having similar functionality, just because MS will not allow them? For instance, does it mean I will never have the right to use an alternative Keyboard (Swype for instance) instead of the keyboard MS force me to use?
For instance does it mean that there will be no alternative player than Zune? (which also means no DivX|avi, the customer being bound to the only codecs MS will allow)
If so, I would like to know, because it's a weird philosophy, and a philosophy which I am definitely not ready to accept anytime soon... I don't want WP7 to be a new IPhone, even more locked down, with no freedom of choice at all...
Especially if I am totally not satisfied with the quality and efficiency of the various MS services such as Bing.
I probably made the wrong choice after WinMo and was maybe silly to stay loyal to MS.
Am I wrong?
Any clue?

It is google blocking its services from microsoft. They want android to succeed so they dont even give us the code for a youtube app (they gave it to apple for the origional iphone) let alone a google maps. Half of that is pure speculation so don't quote me on it but u try to watch a video in the stock YouTube app (the one in the market made by microsoft) and tell me how it looks.

Not sure why you are surprised, MS has made it clear that WP7 is going to be more tightly controlled than WM was but even then, they are not as draconian as you think. There is a gps program with offline maps available in Germany, Navigon. They have been asked several times if/when their program would be available elsewhere and their response seemed to indicate they were waiting for more users to come on board before releasing it.
As for youtube, MS recently filed a complaint in Europe against google claiming they are not allowing MS the proper access to deliver a better youtube experience. Even then, you have Supertube and Lazytube so I'm not sure what else is needed.
As for google maps, thats a google product and unless it is required that all mapping programs use bing (which is not the case, check GPS Navigator aSpass http://wmpoweruser.com/gps-navigator-aspass-provides-off-like-gps-map-caching/) that is up to google to make available. Swype wont be happening, been said a few time if I recall correctly.
Seems this time around MS it keeping a tight reign on certain categories of applications to ensure WP7 gives a consistent user experience. Just another factor to consider before purchasing a WP7 device.

Thanks for your replies,
So, i understand that WP7 will never have any official YouTube app or any official Google Maps app in the near future.
I can deal with LazyTube/SuperTube to replace YouTube
I cannot deal without the official Google Maps app, as all the other maps are too slow and too basic (no PoI, no Street View, etc).
And what about the fact that Microsoft refuses that Shape Services includes Windows Live Messenger support in IM+
And mainly, what about the fact that it seems almost impossible on WP7 to have:
- an alternative keyboard
- an alternative browser
- an alternative media player?
Whatever IE mobile is ok, whatever the WP7 keyboard is correct, it is a question of choice.
What about if people would like to use Swype instead of the regular WP7 keyboard, or Opera instead of IE?
At least would it be just possible to use such alternative programs? Or is MS' approach to forbid any alternative app?

efjay said:
Seems this time around MS it keeping a tight reign on certain categories of applications to ensure WP7 gives a consistent user experience. Just another factor to consider before purchasing a WP7 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be fine only if services proposed by Microsoft were available worldwide (which is not the case) and were decent (which is not the case).

Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)

Newness and Nokia
Hi all
I think that the problems and limitations of WP7 are to do with the fact that it is a new OS. The Mango update will bring a lot of APIs which developers will use to make better applications.
Also, I don't think Microsoft will let WP7, or any of it's main products, fall far behind the competition and I think that part of the deal with Nokia is to bring better mapping/navigation software to WP7 specifically.
Android has clearly had a lot more investment but in a couple of years WP7 will be a serious competitor.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking

arturobandini said:
Hello...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've expressed your issues with Bing Maps a lot here but as I said before Microsoft is probably waiting on Ovi Maps to integrate into the OS to make the services useful outside of the US/UK. So I think your frustration will last a little while.
As for Google services I would guess it's more about Google not being interested in WP7 at the moment and Microsoft being happy to have that pretext to promote Bing. It's a new OS so I'm sure that will change eventually. Also remember Microsoft filed a complaint about Google so I might not be too far off.
Copilot, Tom Tom, etc. not being there is just about them not seeing the point with a small user base, that should change too eventually.
Now choice I'm afraid will stay limited. I think clearly WP7 wants to be somewhere between Android and iOS but much closer to iOS (for now at least). I think they will want the OS to mature before allowing alternative solutions (Opera and Skyfire came a while later on iOS). So yes I think you bought the wrong phone as I doubt all this will change in the short term and maybe Android is what you need until WP7 is a strong player.
Personally I'm happy the way things are as WP7 aims to be an OS about integration and that's harder to make when there's too much choice. I'm annoyed about IM+ not having WLM messenger but after Mango that would have been redundant (I would have preferred to have it until Mango, they could have removed it later). Ideally they should be aiming to integrate all IM services to messaging (a huge task). Same goes for other services.

gremmmy said:
Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surfcube is still IE at its core though.

gremmmy said:
Well about the browser, I can't remember where I read it, but MS said that they are not blocking any browser application (Surfcube is a example)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not completely correct. Surfcube - just like other browsers available on the marketplace - is built upon the IE engine. So all that's different from IE is the UI on top of the engine. Currently it's impossible to provide browsers with other engines like Opera for example due to the lack of APIs. I don't know whether this will change with mango or not.
As a matter of fact, Microsoft is at least partly going a way Apple has been going with their products for years. If you want a mobile device with an OS that you can tweak to your personal desires, you should go for an Android.

Remember, APIs for wp are in their infancy, mango will extend them, who knows how much. But a company like Microsoft push out they first party app and services first is fine with me. If they work right, I won't have to look for an app that does the exact same thing. I love the fact that I don't have to load a crappy Facebook app just to post one thing, or having a built-in upload to Facebook in the camera. And now with the new APIs with integrating apps into different hubs and apps, should "save us from our phones" more.
And for IM+ it could be API isn't available for Live messager.

I'm afraid we won't see any Google Maps before Ovi integration with Bing.
As for browsers all available now are just IE with different UI.
I remember Opera saying they are not interested in making a browser right now.

no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.

pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the most used IM client worldwide.

pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why didn't you just have him go to www.live.com?
And as stated, its the most used IM in the world. Skype is second.

pillsburydoughman said:
no loss there, who uses windows live anyway? I spent an hour on the phone a couple of days ago trying to explain to one of my computer illiterate friends how to use it. I eventually had to install it with him and discovered the incredibly horrible and terrible UI.. won't miss it one bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
skype will have Microsoft logo soon..... and it will be on WP7 included in the OS...
and as someone said Windows live massanger is the most used IM in the world..

if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
as you can see they talk about a a "deal" between miyowa and microsoft for wlm
http://blog.miyowa.com/?p=1118
just search more posts and you can see they mention multiple times have some sort of agreement...
i know its far fetched but i think its more likely that the agreement they made included exclusivity until ms made their own native app. IMO this sounds more reasonable than not allowing duplicated functionality
edit:
personally i hate this, i would like to uninstall the miyowa app (its crap) and use im+ while we wait for native wlm.

revrak said:
if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
as you can see they talk about a a "deal" between miyowa and microsoft for wlm
http://blog.miyowa.com/?p=1118
just search more posts and you can see they mention multiple times have some sort of agreement...
i know its far fetched but i think its more likely that the agreement they made included exclusivity until ms made their own native app. IMO this sounds more reasonable than not allowing duplicated functionality
edit:
personally i hate this, i would like to uninstall the miyowa app (its crap) and use im+ while we wait for native wlm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might have a point there as everything gets dropped except Miyoma Messenger which is so crap I'd rather not have WLM rather than using it. They should be banned from making another app ever again.

revrak said:
unfourtunately i suspect that the issue with wlm is the deal they made with miyowa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or it may be with the way IM+ implemented WLM functionality. This could've taken some reverse engineering.

revrak said:
if the idea is to impose their own services they wouldnt have allowed flory (gtalk) and they would reject im+ (for using icq, gtalk, and many other non ms services).
if this was the idea they would have rejected shazam encore, since they are going to implement the same service.
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And don't forget that just-added official Evernote app, which kind of directly competes with the OneNote/SkyDrive/Mesh combo (and currently beats it, IMO).

IE9 = Rubbish?

Maybe its just me, but using this takes me back to the early 00's with WAP connections, Take the mobile twitter site, its a text based affair with no graphics unlike iOS and android who display it like there mobile apps, same with various websites I load, the look like they did on my old Nokia 7210 I had back in 2002 where as Safari on iOS and the Android web browser look basically the same as they would on a computer. What the reason for this?

The short version is, web developers (at least, the ones for those companies) suck. They're testing for expecific browsers, rather than testing for browser capabilities. IE9 Mobile is actually better than the browser on most of the older Android phones (a lot of phones still ship with 2.3 brand new, and many older ones never even *got* 2.3). However, because the user-agent string it sends doesn't identify itself as a WebKit browser, or some such piss-poor shortcut test, the site send incredibly dumbed-down web code as its fall-back to "I don't even know what this is" mode.
Note that many other sites *do* correctly identify the WP7 browser... just not all of them. Also, some will give different experiences depending on the site; for example, m.facebook.com has a very different UI from touch.facebook.com.
As for sites looking like they do in the desktop, if you want that, put the browser in Desktop mode (it's under Settings, which apparently people never bother to check...) That will cause the browser to send a user-agent string that closely approximates the one used by desktop IE. Websites which use that to identify the browser will therefore send the desktop site code.

The problem is many sites are not recognising it as a smart phone and are displaying a barebone mobile website designed for feature phones rather than smart phones.

It's the fault of the web site developers and not the browser itself. The iOS and android browsers are actually rubbish because of the latest webkit exploit and the fact that within them you still can't easily change the user agent settings.

GoodDayToDie said:
The short version is, web developers (at least, the ones for those companies) suck. They're testing for expecific browsers, rather than testing for browser capabilities. IE9 Mobile is actually better than the browser on most of the older Android phones (a lot of phones still ship with 2.3 brand new, and many older ones never even *got* 2.3). However, because the user-agent string it sends doesn't identify itself as a WebKit browser, or some such piss-poor shortcut test, the site send incredibly dumbed-down web code as its fall-back to "I don't even know what this is" mode.
Note that many other sites *do* correctly identify the WP7 browser... just not all of them. Also, some will give different experiences depending on the site; for example, m.facebook.com has a very different UI from touch.facebook.com.
As for sites looking like they do in the desktop, if you want that, put the browser in Desktop mode (it's under Settings, which apparently people never bother to check...) That will cause the browser to send a user-agent string that closely approximates the one used by desktop IE. Websites which use that to identify the browser will therefore send the desktop site code.
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Totally agree here too. I was speaking with Yelp about being able to view their mobile site through IE9 and WP and for their site to just recognize that it's IE9 and they said they have no plans to make changes to their website to accommodate WP.
This basically means, not until they see it worth their time/effort. Which is lame, cause, really, how hard is it to test for it and then display the mobile site if it's IE9? Why alienate customers, even if it's a small (yet growing) segment?

For me, its not working.
yesterday i had to visit Utorrent's remote control (remote.utorrent.com) to do some changes to my torrents, But unforunately i couldn't pass the "Touch to fill the proggress bar" antispam feature. "Move mouse" for PC.
I tried it with both desktop view and mobile view. no good.
I think developers need to pay some love for WP7 and make a good browser for it
I'd like to see firefox but they didn't make it. Yet ..
The problem is many sites are not recognising it as a smart phone and are displaying a barebone mobile website designed for feature phones rather than smart phones.
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Happened to me alot, Sometimes i get "Your browser is too old/unsupported" error and guess what? They refuse to show the website for me

Why don't we have an opera browser? I would definitely use that.

I find IE9 to be good. Yes, its not the best and its not comparable to others but it does a decent job.
The problem is with developers. Dev's try a lot to customize their apps for specific browsers and in turn make it difficult for non-popular browsers.
That is one reason HTML5 is being so looked upon. Everybody needs a common non-plugin solution to have a consistent web experience, which is already supported by IE9 of WP7

Have you guys checked out the HTML 5 Browser Speed Tests:
http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/
There are some really good HTML 5 tests there that shows the speed of the IE9 browser running those HTML 5 pages. Sure, they are pages created by Microsoft but it still makes me wonder why the android browser and iPhone browser are really poor at loading up these pages.

slugger09 said:
Take the mobile twitter site, its a text based affair with no graphics unlike iOS and android who display it like there mobile apps
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Twitter have fixed it.

Tone_ said:
Twitter have fixed it.
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Yeah, it was temporary.
Took them long enough, some tech writers jumped right into the IE9/WP7 bashing, even though it was on Twitter end
That also pretty much sums up and ends this thread.