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What can you say about this rumor?
i think its true since google confirms it..
lol, looks like they are scared.
Oh come on. Let's be reasonable here. One dude at Google making a quote does not confirm anything. It's irresponsible to expect that he has any more information on the matter than we do.
The idea seems reasonable, but it also seems crazy for Nokia to go from being in total control of the entire platform to only having control over hardware, with Microsoft being so strict about software customization. I think it benefits Microsoft more than Nokia to do this unless Microsoft is paying Nokia to do it, which also seems crazy.
well i guess its true..
simple reason:
they have to make a choise:
1. android (linux)
2. iOS (guess not possible, osx)
3. WP7 (windows)
4. make new one
now which one does look the most like its still modern in 5 years without complete UI redesign. windows phone 7
now with all the power in cellphones
they are clearly mobile pc's
you need a major development team to keep the customers satisfied.
see windows has 80% of global traffic, you can see the power of microsoft there. im sure windows phone will be the most used mobile phone os in lets say 4-8 years.
zune is awesome, once you know it you will never want itunes again.
and sorry i went offtopic, but nokia does make the right choise if they get wp7 on their mobiles. look at our mobile phones as "window" into the digital world. microsoft just does that. in and out and back to life
FishFaceMcGee said:
Oh come on. Let's be reasonable here. One dude at Google making a quote does not confirm anything. It's irresponsible to expect that he has any more information on the matter than we do.
The idea seems reasonable, but it also seems crazy for Nokia to go from being in total control of the entire platform to only having control over hardware, with Microsoft being so strict about software customization. I think it benefits Microsoft more than Nokia to do this unless Microsoft is paying Nokia to do it, which also seems crazy.
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Click to collapse
im just playing when i said "confirm", anyway it looks so true.
I think that Nokia is doing this because in final step the will come back to MeeGo.
MeeGo is a big chance for Nokia, BMW or Asus want to cooperate with Nokia because of MeeGo.
webwalk® said:
well i guess its true..
see windows has 80% of global traffic, you can see the power of microsoft there. im sure windows phone will be the most used mobile phone os in lets say 4-8 years.
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I'm not sure what you're talking about here with the 80% traffic.
mmm, what is going to suddenly drive the TENS OF MILLIONS of iphone users to wp7 ?
android is growing, rim is dying, and wp7 has yet to show -any- official numbers. please correct me here, and provide a source.
nokia can make awesome hardware, why should they limit themselves to one user base ? nokia wants to sell as many devices as vpossible, beit symbian, android, wp7, wm6.5, or anything. they don't care so long as it sells.
for once microsoft has to prove and win customers, instead of being able to force hardware suppliers to install their os.
If Nokia decides to come on board, at least that would mean good things for lots of the markets where WP7 is crippled. I doubt Nokia would hop on a platform that lacks half of its functionality in their major markets.
maybe they can make it multi-task
swang wang wang.. .
trollbait
ohgood said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about here with the 80% traffic.
mmm, what is going to suddenly drive the TENS OF MILLIONS of iphone users to wp7 ?
android is growing, rim is dying, and wp7 has yet to show -any- official numbers. please correct me here, and provide a source.
nokia can make awesome hardware, why should they limit themselves to one user base ? nokia wants to sell as many devices as vpossible, beit symbian, android, wp7, wm6.5, or anything. they don't care so long as it sells.
for once microsoft has to prove and win customers, instead of being able to force hardware suppliers to install their os.
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Click to collapse
80% traffic, of the world, of all computers in the world.
even if its forced. its the force. windows is home os#1 by choise.
check this engadget traffic report
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/ios-now-accounts-for-2-of-global-web-browsing-traffic-chrome-r/
well this is based on data by http://www.netmarketshare.com dont know how they get their infos...
now who is driving iphone users to wp7..
good point, but its simple again, apple will do themself
its simple math .. iphone 1 was 1000€ on release day
that was around 4 years ago. since then every year a new iphone arrived.
apple will keep this up. but now, 4 years later your iphone wont receive any more updates, you cant use the software from appstore and you are forced to buy a new phone. you think twice if you spend a fortune on that again.
this is when wp7 kicks in. its not big now, but it will be in 2 years. people dont know it yet, but everyone i showed my phone loved it. people who used iphone for some years get tiered of iOS. and people are never satisfied, they always want something new.
another point is, there is only 1 (one) iphone .. but already now plenty of wp7 devices. now people trust in nokia for quality phones. they trust in mircosoft for quality software. im not saying they will only produce wp7 devices, but would be stupid if they wouldnt do even 1.
android, well, yeah its awesome, but not for average people. people who love smartphones in general all got a droid, but what about the people still rocking sony erricson feature phones, people with not much general interrest in computers or phones.
and i dont think wp7 has to proove anymore...
if you take a look at the wishlist:
The Windows Phone 7 Feature Request & Suggestion Thread Part 4
http://social.answers.microsoft.com...7/thread/90369a37-02fa-4e92-b0f6-71584a9cadd5
there is not much left...
What do you think IOS wont change? Do you think it will just stay the same? What about any of the other competitors? Will they not grow?
People said they loved Zune years ago, has it overtaken anything?
Nice assumption, but its just that, and nothing realistic about it.
I would not mind nokia hw and wp7 software at all. It could be the best of both worlds plus nokia has been inching toward winmo for a while
let's be real they have and nokia has market presence that can improve microsoft awareness internationally. It's actually a good idea if executed right
this will be great! with Nokia's reach in a ton of countries, this could potenially spread WP7 around the globe and not just on select countries
Bloomberg reports its all but a done deal
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-09/nokia-is-said-to-be-near-partnership-with-microsoft.html
I would love to see nokia and microsoft put an offline navigation software on the phone..
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Nokia build quality and engineering combined with WP7(+) software could be something really awesome. Symbian has been useless and outdated for ages, last above-average thing to come out from Nokia was E51 and that was back in 2007...
Actually, all these sources only speak about some "partnership". It doesn't necessarily mean Nokia phones running WP7.
vangrieg said:
Actually, all these sources only speak about some "partnership". It doesn't necessarily mean Nokia phones running WP7.
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Yeah but let's be honest here, the only thing Nokia has to offer is it's hardware - it's platform is all but irrelevant at this point. So unless Microsoft has been working on a WP7 deal, it has been wasting valuable time it should have been using to roll out a new update .
Sent from my GT-I9000M
radeon_x said:
Yeah but let's be honest here, the only thing Nokia has to offer is it's hardware - it's platform is all but irrelevant at this point.
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Well the question is - does Nokia see it this way? When you listen to SE folks they all go out of their way bragging how their software makes Android so much better and how they add so much value and so on. This is stupid, but that's their official stance.
vangrieg said:
Well the question is - does Nokia see it this way?
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Based on the leaked memo from the new CEO I would say yes
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/
Sent from my GT-I9000M
It is now official
Go to http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_smartphone_agreement/
All the detail is there. We may at least see Windows Phones with decent cameras now, imaging was always a Nokia strongpoint so I understand
Here are the details of the Nokia/Microsoft partnership
Nokia will deliver mapping, navigation and location based services to the Windows Phone 7 eco system.
Nokia will provide imaging and hardware design expertise, carrier billing connections and receive payments for its intellectual properties.
Nokia will be paying royalties to Microsoft for each Windows Phone 7 device they make, but they’ll receive payments “in the billions” from Microsoft.
A Nokia-branded app store will be built on the Windows Marketplace infrastructure.
Source
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
I have seen my share of phones (like the same 5200 Nokia which was one of their early attempts to crack into the SE music market) and I personally have always hated the UI. I thought it to be difficult to navigate and unintuitive (I owned a P1, W960i, and Vivaz which admitted are not S^3 devices).
Which point of view do you not understand? Both companies did it as a matter of survival. People will argue about who needed who more but everyone does benefit tremendously:
Nokia - Symbian was dying. Nokia is huge in Asia but lacks significant presence in USA. What Nokia wants out of the deal is a smartphone platform that makes them relevant. They probably believe with their superior telephony and hardware they will be able to jump ahead of the pack.
Microsoft - Windows Phone did not have the wildly successful start that Microsoft would have hoped for. They wanted something that would allow them to pick up more customers.
I am one of those customers that drools about the possibility of a Nokia W8 phone (N8 with Windows on it) or a W7 (E7 with Windows on it). I have always thought the two more balanced phone makers out there were Nokia and SE. Good optics, good battery life, well built phones. SE suffers from too much design reuse and intercompeting phone and Nokia in the past could have made better looking phones, but good phones none the less.
Nokia really needed it. Smartphone sales are a huge chunk of everyone's revenue now and this will give them a promising platform to be part of.
Why Windows as opposed to Android I am not touching with a 10 foot pole. That will go nowhere fast.
sure haven't said:
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
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Nokia are the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in Europe. They have the biggest brand as well (IMO I can't back that up with any facts but it'd be a widespread opinion).
It's like Motorola or Palm, how big they are in the US. Motorola's "Revival" with Android did wonders for the Android OS. Nokia's with Windows Phone will have a similar or dare I say greater effect.
The ovi store has around 40,000 applications. 3.5m apps are downloaded per day from Ovi Store.
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
brummiesteven said:
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
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Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
nicksti said:
Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
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Yeah the flip I was referring to was that one old phone aggess ago. It was quite a brick but it was a phone on the outside and you flip it open and it turned into a laptop (well a mini phone laptop thing).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9110_Communicator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E90_Communicator
The first edition was kinda like a Motorola Atrix for the late 90s
Edit: Also I agree with you on optics, the N95 is the best Camera Phone I've owned to date (and my last Nokia Phone). N8 photos look amazing.
The thing about Nokia for me is build quality........
I had a 3310 "back in the day" and an N95 before my HD2, both those phones had the absolute crap beaten out of them and didnt even suffer as much as a loose battery cover......
Obviously I cant be certain that kind of quality applies to all their phones but in my experience it has been solid and I would seriously consider a Nokia phone running WP7
Oh yeah, as the guy above me mentioned...... camera's......
The N95 camera was awesome. Not that I ever used it much. Im sure some people actually give a crap about that sort of thing though.
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
sure haven't said:
Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers?
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They did and they were/are.
Nokia phones have always been the most popular, most bought etc. In 2007 Symbian had a smartphone marketshare of 67%. Symbian is still going strong in many European and Asian markets:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/18/smartphone-market-android-win-nokia-rim-lose
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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the Nokia phone's hardware was/is pretty awesome. They were never best sellers because of the software, thus the deal.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
When I think of Nokia the first thing that comes to mind is hardware not software. Fortunately, the software part is handled by Windows Phone 7. I am very interested in a Nokia WP7 because the build quality will be outstanding and the optics will awesome. Add Mango to the equation and it'll be a hit, hopefully.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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Click to collapse
The answer is different depending on the region.
Nokia is big in Africa, Asia (incl India & Pakistan) and other developing nations. I recall reading an article explaining how they have a superior business model in these places.
I admit a little ignorance about Nokia in the last year in the UK but I would figure they still do reasonably well and probably took a hit in their high end offering (N series) and business offering (E series).
The E series for them used to be big. Remember, the E series before the E72 supported BB service and was wildly popular. Fast forward to now, when is the last time you have seen a Nokia smartphone advertise on T-Mobile / Verizon / AT&T? I know I cannot recall.
It cost Microsoft more than it cost Nokia, so Microsoft has more to lose. They both have lots to gain. The only thing I do hope is Nokia does not hoodwink Microsoft (keep developing Symbian, use some of what it learnt from WP7, and then push it out to compete).
But I think lots of people on this board would love to have a Mango Nokia phone.
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
Good to learn Ovi maps are coming to all WP7 platform.
doministry said:
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
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Nokia claims they will leave it stock despite having the green light to customize. I bet their thinking that they will have their own Marketplace area where only Nokia phones will be able to get software that will give them the leg up on the competition since they can put out some good stuff.
...until they stumble onto XDA and see people are using their stuff on HTC phones. Then things get ugly.
Yes, I can assure you Nokia is a strong brand and very famous in Asia. I would prefer Nokia's hardware over Samsung or HTC when Windows Phone 7 is officially available from Nokia.
Nokia is strong not only in Asia and Africa, it's strong in Europe as well. The only part of the world where it isn't is the US.
Also, contrary to a popular media story, they don't have big problems with sales, which are growing (albeit their market share declines because others are growing faster). They have a huge problem with costs, and specifically with huge R&D costs which are killing their bottom line. Symbian is doing rather well on mid- and low-end smartphones, but they long ago needed something else for the high end. They started development there but the costs are prohibitive. That's exactly what HP will find out in a year or two.
HP won't have those issues because WebOS does not have the issues that Symbian has. WebOS is a decent, modern OS right now. Symbian is just an aging OS that they continued to throw features in year after year. In the end, it can do almost anything, but it's a train wreck to use, and it's ugly - point blank.
Also, HP makes a ton of money in the PC Hardware/Printer business and can easily fund WebOS development. They also have their own Mainframe UNIX OS (HP-UX) and they sell that hardware as well. Funding Palm will not be a problem for HP, just as Funding Visual Studio/WP7 isn't an issue for Microsoft, or funding Solaris won't be an issue for Oracle...
It's not like Nokia doesn't have cash. It just costs too much to develop and maintain an OS if you aren't a software company. With multiple OEMs costs are spread, while when you go it alone you assume 100%. So you have to either make super profitable devices like Apple or to make dozens of them to make sure you sell lots and lots. HP is flushing money down the toilet, and they'll waste more over the years.
Nokia has been developing and maintaining Symbian for decades. They're as much a Software company as Palm was.
And the reason why their phones don't sell here is only half in fault of Symbian. In addition to having an OS they neglected to work on crap like Maemo/MeeGo/etc. they also used ridiculously cheap internals, put them in a nice build quality, and thought people here (many of us with money to spare) would buy that ****.
Who wants to buy an N8 with a crappy nHD screen resolution, Symbian, terrible processor, lacking in RAM, etc. for $600+ when they can get an iPhone or Android device with twice the specs and much more to offer? Cause the camera is good? Lol. Oh, it's cause Nokia build quality is awesome, even though maybe 75% of people put their smartphones in a case, anyways...
It has nothing to do with that. Nokia did what Microsoft did with Windows Mobile and they got plowed. That's what the issue is. Cost is not a factor, although developing a new OS from scratch MAY be. But nothing was stopping Nokia from revamping the Symbian UI and boosting their smartphone specs up (and using higher res screens). While cost may be a factor now, Symbian's "demise" wasn't instant. It happened over years-worth of time and if Nokia had been doing what they should have (just like Microsoft with Windows Mobile) they would not be in this situation today.
Microsoft basically took Windows CE and put a new user experience on top of it then called it Windows Phone 7. Nokia could have done the same with Symbian.
But to say that HP will have troubles with WebOS is what I really took notice of. It's a bit of a Naive statement to make.
People will probably even buy HP printers to get the WebOS tablets that come attached to them, Lol...
Now, an interesting tidbit is that every major smartphone OS that is developed for a manufacturer's own device seems to be packaged in terrible hardware (as in the internals/specs) - except Apple. Nokia, RIM, and Palm all have/had terrible internals in their phone. Even if in some cases the software was completely awesome (WebOS). Even then, Apple makes several concessions in their products to keep margins up (iPad 2/iTouch cameras, no HSPA+ in the iPhone, going from PowerPC to Intel on the Desktop, etc.).
Much has been made of the Windows Phone slow start with maybe less that 2 million units in the hands of consumers. However I think that the recent predictions by Gartner, IDC etc... of about 20% by 2015 might be a little low. I think by 2015 Android and Windows Phone will have parity in software features, hardware and the number of OEM`s supporting them.
I also think the Nokia relationship definately pushes them to over 30% when you consider Nokia`s dominance in growing economies like China, India, Russia, Latin America and Africa. Its also clear how much Nokia needs windows phone to defend these markets against Android..
India and China alone are expected to see their middle class grow 10 fold by 2025. India currently has a middle class population of about 50 million people..
Its definately not just about whats happening in the North America or Western Europe!!!
This graphic tells the current state of play worldwide...
http://rww.readwriteweb.netdna-cdn....02/global-os-marketshare-feb.2011-o-27904.php
We'll see how well WP7 and Nokia really work together. From what we know, Bing Maps will get stuff from Ovi Maps (or be replaced by Ovi Maps?) and a Nokia App store will be added on top of the Windows Phone Marketplace. This might be nice for Nokia but I don't know if other phone makers will like this.
Also Nokia will not use WP7 in its current form. What that means is not very clear, but the start screen with all the pinned apps and stuff might not be there on nokia phones.
^ last I read, Nokia wont be doing any changes to the OS.
Yeah that's what I read some time ago which actually didn't bother me:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
slimshady322 said:
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
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That article is very misleading. The part they claim to be a translated quote of Öistämö's comments was not that at all. It was a quote of a blog's interpretation of the comment that "Nokia will not adopt Windows Phone environment as it is today". Considering how vague that comment is, it could be taken many ways.
Besides, if Microsoft were to allow Nokia to make such fundamental UI changes, after forbidding HTC from doing the same, it could destroy their relationship with their other manufacturers.
Nokia will be adding things like better camera app, Navtek Data/ovi maps into the whole wp7 system, the OVI store, and differentiating itself with its hardware. The general OS will be untouched as to provide the consistent user experience across devices MS is looking for.
I personally cannot wait for the high end Nokia Windows Phones. And I believe they will also force the other OEM's to make better hardware as well to compete.
If nokia wont change anything on wp7 they will fail. Symbian maybe outdated and old but it has lots of nice features. Nokia fanboys may find wp7 lacking on every aspect. And what about the low-end phones from nokia? Will it too have wp7 on it. Nokia definitely made a wrong choice here. Nokia dominates on the Massess.
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
ebzrascal said:
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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ewww, this will not sit well with people....
remember how pissed people were when they found they needed to buy vista ultimate office wildcard edition for xyz featureset ?
ok, now compound that pissed off consumer with a 2 year contract, and having to upgrade a piece of hardware ($600 off contract, no upgrade eligiblilty) to get xyz featureset...
I predict some pissed folks !
this is where apple got it right, and ms should have learned already:
same phone, just more storage
android?
a billion phones + 1 click root = any software you ever wanted
There's no way to predict anything for 2015 with any reliability. The best you can do is take current factors and extrapolate. Currently phones have very short lives (1-2 years in the hands of a customer), and without loyalty market shares change dramatically very fast. There's nothing that prevents users from switching - "apps" are too cheap to be a real barrier, and on Android they don't even serve this purpose because so many are free.
So there's brands and distribution power. Arguably, the only real smartphone brand is owned by Apple. Everything else is up in the air.
That being said, WP7 needs dozens of phones, and not just from Nokia, to have a sizable market.
Its also interesting to see what Apple is going to do with that billion dollar datacentre.
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
ebzrascal said:
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
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Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
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That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
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If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
N8ter said:
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
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I disagree Nokia has the Brand loyalty not Symbian at least with the average customer... Nokia stands for Reliabilty and Quality in hardware and optics.
N8ter said:
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
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When Nokia devices arrive with Mango built in there will be no functionality disparity!!! between WP7 and RIM/ANDROID/IOS
N8ter said:
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
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Just checked Expansys and the N8 is selling for 400ukp and the E72 250ukp which is definately comparible to Android and Blackberry...
N8ter said:
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
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Well they are giving WP7 a huge push in distribution to India, China, Russia, Latin America and African markets. China already has a smartphone market which half the size of the US market and its exected to grow rapidly. They are also bring functionality to Windows Phone like OVI Maps and Navigation.
N8ter said:
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
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I would expect support for Hummingbird, Tegra 3 etc to come later when Windows Phone is established and are selling hundreds of millions of devices
N8ter said:
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
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Why would the OEM`s want to depend soley on Android ?? Eventually I see Motorola and especially Sony Ericsson making Windows Phones probably in late 2012...
If only Microsoft, HTC, LG and all other manufacturers and carriers do what Nokia is doing in terms of advertising support, Windows Phone would be doing better than how it is right now. Although I think it is doing good, still it could be better. I hope they start fully supporting WP.
Think they will pick up once they see good Nokia WP adoption. One thing to consider is that WP7 hasn't really been out that long. Kinda consider pre-Mango a soft launch.
Korhaan said:
Think they will pick up once they see good Nokia WP adoption. One thing to consider is that WP7 hasn't really been out that long. Kinda consider pre-Mango a soft launch.
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Agreed, once the lumia 900 does good. Others will follow. The lumia 900 will boost MS market share and lock in others to join. But on another hnd I believe a lot of manufactures are waiting on Apollo.
Sent from my Venue Pro using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
enyaj said:
If only Microsoft, HTC, LG and all other manufacturers and carriers do what Nokia is doing in terms of advertising support, Windows Phone would be doing better than how it is right now. Although I think it is doing good, still it could be better. I hope they start fully supporting WP.
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Ummmm I doubt it is so simple. What I would like to see is HTC bring that One thin design to Windows Phone. And a Sony Xperia S running Windows Phone. Compelling hardware and features will really drive Windows sales and the features are rolling in fast.
Dude,you can't expect that...and it never happens. Due to close relationship of nokia and microsoft,nokia has received billion of dollars from MS to do all those marketing, while other manufacturers have nothing....
again, with WP7, everything is a waiting game...fans can wait, you can wait and even everyone else in this WP7 forum willing to wait...
me and other manufacturers will not wait or not able to wait....a 1 year and half OS in 2012, smooth within itself, slow beyond itself(most third party app),it is kinda dissapointing.
As I mentioned, WP7 itself, is just an unfinished and rush product by MS, it can only grow through the help of Windows 8,if Windows 8 failed,it fails.
Further, I think boot-to-gecko by Mozilla can make bigger splash than WP this year.
As I predicted,this year will be a year of mobile phone entertainment(including game),no longer year of apps anymore(however, wp7 still chasing the apps trend and apps quality and capturing developer)....
Since ipad 3rd gen has been using the similar GPU found in ps vita, iphone 5 would be something bigger and galaxy s3 too...therefore,again,due to the close relationship between qualcomm, WP8 apollo will still be using the krait processor with adreno 225(slower than tegra 3),still no match with the powervr sgx 543mp4(about 2-4 times of tegra 3).You can say that you don't want this,or WP7 does not need this....but developers need this and most consumer in 2012 need this...
Furthermore, due the the nokia and MS relationship, HTC and Samsung,will defnitely find themselves a safety position, for example, Samsung will expand its Bada(Tizen) OS, which is growing constantly and HTC will maybe adopt the boot to gecko or opensourced webOS.
ok, the below will left for fans talk and many some logic critics....
sylau90 said:
Dude,you can't expect that...and it never happens. Due to close relationship of nokia and microsoft,nokia has received billion of dollars from MS to do all those marketing, while other manufacturers have nothing....
again, with WP7, everything is a waiting game...fans can wait, you can wait and even everyone else in this WP7 forum willing to wait...
me and other manufacturers will not wait or not able to wait....a 1 year and half OS in 2012, smooth within itself, slow beyond itself(most third party app),it is kinda dissapointing.
As I mentioned, WP7 itself, is just an unfinished and rush product by MS, it can only grow through the help of Windows 8,if Windows 8 failed,it fails.
Further, I think boot-to-gecko by Mozilla can make bigger splash than WP this year.
As I predicted,this year will be a year of mobile phone entertainment(including game),no longer year of apps anymore(however, wp7 still chasing the apps trend and apps quality and capturing developer)....
Since ipad 3rd gen has been using the similar GPU found in ps vita, iphone 5 would be something bigger and galaxy s3 too...therefore,again,due to the close relationship between qualcomm, WP8 apollo will still be using the krait processor with adreno 225(slower than tegra 3),still no match with the powervr sgx 543mp4(about 2-4 times of tegra 3).You can say that you don't want this,or WP7 does not need this....but developers need this and most consumer in 2012 need this...
Furthermore, due the the nokia and MS relationship, HTC and Samsung,will defnitely find themselves a safety position, for example, Samsung will expand its Bada(Tizen) OS, which is growing constantly and HTC will maybe adopt the boot to gecko or opensourced webOS.
ok, the below will left for fans talk and many some logic critics....
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Lot's of blah blah blah but at the end of the day the main issue with WP7 is not the product or what it will become in future iterations, it's the fact that there has been next to no marketing for it except for the initial rollout.
The blame has to be put in Microsoft's lap, not with anyone else...HTC, Samsung, LG, etc....are pretty much just dumb manufacturers taking other companies efforts (either Windows phone or Anrdoid) and putting it in black rectangular "me too" devices.
Nokia is different as they are committing to only Windows Phone for the future.
Bada is a POS from a software point of view and from a marketing point of view...it's only used with any signifigance in korea...
Nokia and MS created a partnership and money went in both directions...it's overly simplistic(and incorrect) to state that MS gave Nokia billions to go windows phone and this has been discussed ad nauseum...
lip said:
Lot's of blah blah blah but at the end of the day the main issue with WP7 is not the product or what it will become in future iterations, it's the fact that there has been next to no marketing for it except for the initial rollout.
The blame has to be put in Microsoft's lap, not with anyone else...HTC, Samsung, LG, etc....are pretty much just dumb manufacturers taking other companies efforts (either Windows phone or Anrdoid) and putting it in black rectangular "me too" devices.
Nokia is different as they are committing to only Windows Phone for the future.
Bada is a POS from a software point of view and from a marketing point of view...it's only used with any signifigance in korea...
Nokia and MS created a partnership and money went in both directions...it's overly simplistic(and incorrect) to state that MS gave Nokia billions to go windows phone and this has been discussed ad nauseum...
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agree with you, the blame is to be put on MS lap...
I'm excited for WP8. From all the leaks so far I really like what I see coming down the pipeline, and look forward to the full unveiling in a few weeks. But, I seriously think that both 7.8 and WP8 are equally critical to the platform's growth hut for different reasons.
Microsoft has shown that itself will release updates and in a timely manner, as along as the hardware supports it. But I think they need to port over as much of these features to 7.8 as possible:
New start screen
New accent colors
Keyboard matches accent colors
Custom Hub
Wallet Hub
Option to select
Equalizer options for music and video hub
Not everyone is able to break contract and upgrade, and some people do like their WP7 devices (I like my Focus S, even though I'm on T Mobile).
Question for all: would those features above be enough to satisfy those on WP7 for a while?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
trappxl said:
I'm excited for WP8. From all the leaks so far I really like what I see coming down the pipeline, and look forward to the full unveiling in a few weeks. But, I seriously think that both 7.8 and WP8 are equally critical to the platform's growth hut for different reasons.
Microsoft has shown that itself will release updates and in a timely manner, as along as the hardware supports it. But I think they need to port over as much of these features to 7.8 as possible:
New start screen
New accent colors
Keyboard matches accent colors
Custom Hub
Wallet Hub
Option to select
Equalizer options for music and video hub
Not everyone is able to break contract and upgrade, and some people do like their WP7 devices (I like my Focus S, even though I'm on T Mobile).
Question for all: would those features above be enough to satisfy those on WP7 for a while?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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for what you need a wallet hub if you dont have an NFC chip built in a wp7 device? and some of you askings are already there i use 7.8 and have the new start screen, some new colors are also there. And i can tell you i'am realy good served with 7.8 and the feature set of 7.5! belive me that most people would buy an 7.8 before an wp8 device, i think of normal consumers. Normal consumers want "cheaper phones" but good phones, that an Lumia 900 on 7.8 for me and it cost now only a half of a lumia 920! is the lumia 920 realy worth twice? i think no! generally speaking as a long time wp7 user. It has not so much new features which are worth now to pay 600€ for a lumia 920. and with the lumia price drop to about 320€ it is only the half. it can be also found to 300€.
Dinchy87 said:
for what you need a wallet hub if you dont have an NFC chip built in a wp7 device?
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Same way as iOS has passbook app? They don't have NFC but passbook can help keep stuff in one place secure - boarding passes, credit cards, store cards blah blah.
So yeah wallet hub can have possible uses even without any NFC support.
Remember that only hits of the early 7.8 build are out there and there is so much Microsoft hasn't announced for WP8 itself yet. Is the new Office hardware dependent? I would love the Wallet hub to use it like Passbook on iOS. WP8 may not be hack friendly with the new restrictions so I dunno how willing devs will be to port over features to 7.8. I own both a G Nex and a Focus S and I love my Focus S more. WP is such a pretty looking and solid OS I still think Microsoft shouldn't completely bury the WP7 phones in order to move forward with WP8.
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trappxl said:
Remember that only hits of the early 7.8 build are out there and there is so much Microsoft hasn't announced for WP8 itself yet. Is the new Office hardware dependent? I would love the Wallet hub to use it like Passbook on iOS. WP8 may not be hack friendly with the new restrictions so I dunno how willing devs will be to port over features to 7.8. I own both a G Nex and a Focus S and I love my Focus S more. WP is such a pretty looking and solid OS I still think Microsoft shouldn't completely bury the WP7 phones in order to move forward with WP8.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Most likely they won't - at least Nokia won't. Considering how huge its feature phone market is, if anything it will try and push all the old WP7.x phones as "first smartphones" to those feature phone customers. To be honest, none of the WP7.x are that complicated or feature loaded to overwhelm or underwhelm a beginner in smartphone world. Believe it or not, feature phone market is much much much bigger than smartphone world. These WP7.x babies can easily beat any low end entry level Android!
I saw something recently about how Nokia plans to release a 7.8 WP next year. Here's my issue with how the OEMs have handled WP7: they let the carriers screw us over. For example, at what AT&T did. The Titan 1 was EOL'd in 6 months! So was the Focus S. Meanwhile, on T Mobile the Lumia 710 and Radar have been going pretty strong for at least 8 months. The HD7 had at least 1good year but got EOL'd fast too when it hit AT&T.
I wish my Focus S was a pentaband phone like the G Nex and had 768RAM. Otherwise it is perfect for my needs. I use my G Nex more right now because of the pentaband radio and that I still like Android. But there are certain things that WP hits the spot for me: email, artist bios in music, people hub, picture hub, bing search hub, ease to scroll through apps and music files.
I think Microsoft learned the hard way that splitting the platform up with the premier phones on one carrier here in the US was a mistake. It is why they went back to HTC and is using the 8X in the manner Samsung did with the Galaxy Line to move units and get WP into more hands. Make no mistake, Nokia is the preferred WP brand due to the mind share and marketing it made with the Gen 1 Lumias, but HTC is once again called upon to sell volume like it has in the past for Microsoft.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
trappxl said:
I saw something recently about how Nokia plans to release a 7.8 WP next year. Here's my issue with how the OEMs have handled WP7: they let the carriers screw us over. For example, at what AT&T did. The Titan 1 was EOL'd in 6 months! So was the Focus S. Meanwhile, on T Mobile the Lumia 710 and Radar have been going pretty strong for at least 8 months. The HD7 had at least 1good year but got EOL'd fast too when it hit AT&T.
I wish my Focus S was a pentaband phone like the G Nex and had 768RAM. Otherwise it is perfect for my needs. I use my G Nex more right now because of the pentaband radio and that I still like Android. But there are certain things that WP hits the spot for me: email, artist bios in music, people hub, picture hub, bing search hub, ease to scroll through apps and music files.
I think Microsoft learned the hard way that splitting the platform up with the premier phones on one carrier here in the US was a mistake. It is why they went back to HTC and is using the 8X in the manner Samsung did with the Galaxy Line to move units and get WP into more hands. Make no mistake, Nokia is the preferred WP brand due to the mind share and marketing it made with the Gen 1 Lumias, but HTC is once again called upon to sell volume like it has in the past for Microsoft.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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OR may be as few threads about 3-4 months back discussed at lengths that MSFT knew it all along. WP8 was in making even before the launch of WP7. For such a giant company it makes sense to have it all planned. With WP7 there was no way OEM other than Nokia would go full-on with it. Hence Nokia exclusive deal even with carriers. Now, WP is little known. With ecosystem launch MSFT can bet on other OEMs too. That phase of WP7 was to try and create a loyal following and bit of mindshare on the back of Nokia's mindshare while Nokia stops the slidings downfall from Symbian. Now it might be the right time when even other OEMs are interested to cash in on what is supposed to be the biggest launch of MSFT in it's history. This works well for MSFT too and hence HTC gets signature phones, Nokia gets exclusives and MSFT gets WP in plenty more hands. A happy family?
I do agree that Microsoft knew this all along. I mean it made sense what they did from a company perspective, but they didn't do any consumers any favors. If I were Microsoft to do it this way, I'd have gone with better minimum requirements, better software support. I'm not sure if they will do that anymore.
I'm on the fence...I like WP. I'm not a fan of how Microsoft has handled things. From a pure consumer point of view, it is the best OS on the market it terms of ease of use. In terms of overall functionality for devs and enthusiasts, Android is better and WP will be harder to use like that than iOS.
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trappxl said:
From a pure consumer point of view, it is the best OS on the market it terms of ease of use. In terms of overall functionality for devs and enthusiasts, Android is better and WP will be harder to use
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That says it all!
One just needs to decide if he is a consumer who wants quality product or a dev/enthusiast who wants to tinker around each evening! Then the options are very clear.
drupad2drupad said:
That says it all!
One just needs to decide if he is a consumer who wants quality product or a dev/enthusiast who wants to tinker around each evening! Then the options are very clear.
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But the way MS abandons the older gen shows that they simply didn't plan the whole picture upfront. By giving an excuse that the old phone isn't powerful enough for the new software means they had a short sight at the very beginning, and constantly changing their minds. It is not a pretty picture that consumers want to see. Let me know that my phone is obsolete in 6 months of release is very bad, made people lose confidence to the OS. They should stop doing that immediately.
If MS wants to compete with Android, they should not do the same sh1t companies using android did, but follow apple as a better role model.
As a US consumer, I like both. I like Android to tinker and that's where my Galaxy Nexus comes in. I'm using BlackBean ROM as my daily driver and i love it. I haven't had any need to flash the other ROMs I have because this one fulfills my need to tinker but still have something stable enough to use daily.
But as a pure daily driver, WP fits my needs better. I like the Focus S a lot. I wish when I bought it I could have interlop unlocked it, but the one I bought was already updated. My carrier, T Mobile, took the mid range phones and 8GB onboard storage isn't enough for me.
Still, this is the second time MSFT has done this, the first being going from the HD2 and 6.5 to WP7. I give them credit in that they will have released Nodo, Mango, Tango and 7.8, but only Nodo and Mango were significant (7.8 not included, as it is still so TBD). They let the carriers have too much play because they did t hand the OS release correctly and killed some good devices in the Focus S, Titan 2 among others. If they wanted to be so much like Apple they should learn from the iPhone 3G update to iOS4.0.1. See how they gave the 3GS a ton of support? Its a shame but my guts says 7.8 will be as barren as Tango, which means I may not upgrade until WP 8 Gen 2 or WP9.
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blah blah blah... Same cries again... :bored:
Will WP7 forgotten OS? Well, not for me! I'm waiting for Lumia 510 to be launched in my country since my mom needs a replacement of her old battered phone. Next month, my sister will be buying her first smartphone. She will see and compare WP7 and WP8. If she doesn't see enough advantages of WP8 over WP7 then she will pick WP7.
This pretty much should explain views of an average consumer.
ctiger said:
But the way MS abandons the older gen shows that they simply didn't plan the whole picture upfront. By giving an excuse that the old phone isn't powerful enough for the new software means they had a short sight at the very beginning, and constantly changing their minds. It is not a pretty picture that consumers want to see. Let me know that my phone is obsolete in 6 months of release is very bad, made people lose confidence to the OS. They should stop doing that immediately.
If MS wants to compete with Android, they should not do the same sh1t companies using android did, but follow apple as a better role model.
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I'm not going to indulge in the same talk again and beat the dead horse to ultimate eternity but MSFT never said hardware isn't good enough. As a company they did not find porting the new kernel on old softwares and providing any kind of update fruitful considering how small the user base is/was and what sort of user base it had. Not everyone visits XDA and not everyone has a hobby of ROM flashing. Hence MSFT decided rather than probably open 20 new call centres to help those who bricked their phones, we might as well abandon 0.001% unhappy customers. The rest from Gen1 anyways need an upgrade, they aren't really unhappy. The unhappy ones, the cheated ones, the people who shout that their phone became a piece of wood with the magical announcement - are those who got Gen2 Mango devices. Those customers are 0.001% of smartphone market and probably 20% of MSFT WP market. 80% won't care and forget this on 29th October, including me (I got Gen2 Mango phone). They are business, we are customers, they are sitting there to make money, not a marriage.
drupad2drupad said:
I'm not going to indulge in the same talk again and beat the dead horse to ultimate eternity but MSFT never said hardware isn't good enough. As a company they did not find porting the new kernel on old softwares and providing any kind of update fruitful considering how small the user base is/was and what sort of user base it had. Not everyone visits XDA and not everyone has a hobby of ROM flashing. Hence MSFT decided rather than probably open 20 new call centres to help those who bricked their phones, we might as well abandon 0.001% unhappy customers. The rest from Gen1 anyways need an upgrade, they aren't really unhappy. The unhappy ones, the cheated ones, the people who shout that their phone became a piece of wood with the magical announcement - are those who got Gen2 Mango devices. Those customers are 0.001% of smartphone market and probably 20% of MSFT WP market. 80% won't care and forget this on 29th October, including me (I got Gen2 Mango phone). They are business, we are customers, they are sitting there to make money, not a marriage.
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I agree with you that from business point, it's not worth too much for MS. But still, they put a lot effort to get this tiny share of smartphone market and with this act, they might just lose many of those that's quite unhappy about the fact they got dumped. I have a WP, an android tab and a iPhone, when apple released iOS6, I found iPhone 3gs still can take some advantage of the new OS, which is quite amazing given my tab won't be supported for any new updates and my WP will be in the dark. So seems to me, investing in iPhone is a better idea somehow, the quality is better than those OEMs too. (my monthly bill will be the same for iPhone or WP with LTE)
I don't mean to argue anything, it is just my feeling of the strategy every different companies chose, preference of those companies. I was firmly against iPhone because I have Sprint which had no iPhone to choose from and I won't pay for the overhead. Then Sprint brought in iPhone and I got one and am happy about the result, proved that it is not just a hype. Myself, I was using TP2 then switched to WP(got for free) and I'm happy mostly after a long time(got used to those craps eventually) and will keep using that WP(had to do a repair because of part of the screen stopped responding)
I'm not trying to flog a dead horse here but not everyone has cash to upgrade at the launch of new tech. As long as MSFT provides some support for WP7 and doesn't completely kill it, then I'd be more incline to stay with WP. Yes the average Joe won't hack their phone but at least with Android if you pay attention and read the forums rooting your phone is worth something a bit more.
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I'm happy with my Gen 1 HTC hd7. Even after tmobile killed it, the custom roms kept coming. And eventually I plan on getting the htc 8x. My HTC has been solid for two years now. Wp8 will have everything my WP 7.8, but better hardware and specs. I'm not too involved in development, but theres lots of homebrew apps. If you want a solid, os go with wp8. If you want more customization, go android. You want last year go ios.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only things I want out of 7.8 are a file explorer and the ability to sync whatever files I want. I'm talking about doc files if you add to them or whatnot they automatically sync when you plug in your phone. I had that setup on my wm 6.5
The obvious start screen we all know we're getting.
A notification hub or bar or whatever
Customization options for ring tones (already have but you know what I mean) custom sms, email, alarm alerts
and for me I would love to be able to have a lock screen with a lot more versatility. For instance an app like amazing weather could push current weather conditions with animations to the lock screen.
Would that make most of us happy? So let's see if MS gives it to us but I won't hold my breath.
See, there is still too much that MSFT locked down in WP7. Some of the HTC devices, like the Mozart, had a LED that could be used for notifications. The Titan's notification LED is a bit more useful, but the one thing in used to love about my BB9780 (my G Nex does this too) is how you could assign different colors for different types of notifications. An orange LED for missed calls and notifications would have been enough.
What I would love to see is the ability to open an app from the lockscreen by tapping on the notification. We can already control the music player from lock screen, why not a medium to long press on an email icon at the bottom of the lock screen to slide up the lock sreen then open the email app? I think that would help for those missed notifications that you don't see when they come in at the top bar in real time. They could also give us the last five types of notifications and save the "us choosing what five we want to get notifications for" as I read they may do in WP8.
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I don't think Microsoft (and Nokia) will completely abandon WP7. Nokia did say that apps that don't require hardware support from the new WP8 devices (such as NFC and multi-core processors) will be available for WP7.x.
Although I'm hoping that newer games such as the new Angry Birds Star Wars (to be released on November 8) from Rovio would be available for WP7.8 users. (After reading the press release, they did say that the game will be available for Windows Phone - here's me hoping that by windows phone they meant both 7.x and 8 users).
Besides, why are we berating Microsoft and Nokia? This happens even to Android and iOS users. Motorola recently posted an announcement explaining why not every devices they have in the market will be upgradable to Android Ice Cream Sandwich, HTC also once announced that its Desire line of handsets would not be upgradable to Gingerbread (although backlash from angry users prompted HTC to create a version of Gingerbread with some memory intensive features removed). iOS is also not an exception. Sure, your 3GS can be upgraded to iOS 6 but try downloading a new app and, oh wait: only compatible with 4th generation iPhone and iPod Touch (pretty sure it will change to "compatible with 5th generation iPhone and iPod Touch only). So, yeah, you have iOS 6 on paper but you don't really have iOS 6 in all its glory.
Do we really need a new operating system when our current OS does everything we need flawlessly? I think I'd find it harder to stomach thinking that my Lumia 800 has WP8 but can't actually do what WP8 was set out to do. I'd stick with my Lumia for the moment and after two years, upgrade to a (hopefully its still there) new Nokia Lumia running the latest WP-OS.