What can you say about this rumor?
i think its true since google confirms it..
lol, looks like they are scared.
Oh come on. Let's be reasonable here. One dude at Google making a quote does not confirm anything. It's irresponsible to expect that he has any more information on the matter than we do.
The idea seems reasonable, but it also seems crazy for Nokia to go from being in total control of the entire platform to only having control over hardware, with Microsoft being so strict about software customization. I think it benefits Microsoft more than Nokia to do this unless Microsoft is paying Nokia to do it, which also seems crazy.
well i guess its true..
simple reason:
they have to make a choise:
1. android (linux)
2. iOS (guess not possible, osx)
3. WP7 (windows)
4. make new one
now which one does look the most like its still modern in 5 years without complete UI redesign. windows phone 7
now with all the power in cellphones
they are clearly mobile pc's
you need a major development team to keep the customers satisfied.
see windows has 80% of global traffic, you can see the power of microsoft there. im sure windows phone will be the most used mobile phone os in lets say 4-8 years.
zune is awesome, once you know it you will never want itunes again.
and sorry i went offtopic, but nokia does make the right choise if they get wp7 on their mobiles. look at our mobile phones as "window" into the digital world. microsoft just does that. in and out and back to life
FishFaceMcGee said:
Oh come on. Let's be reasonable here. One dude at Google making a quote does not confirm anything. It's irresponsible to expect that he has any more information on the matter than we do.
The idea seems reasonable, but it also seems crazy for Nokia to go from being in total control of the entire platform to only having control over hardware, with Microsoft being so strict about software customization. I think it benefits Microsoft more than Nokia to do this unless Microsoft is paying Nokia to do it, which also seems crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im just playing when i said "confirm", anyway it looks so true.
I think that Nokia is doing this because in final step the will come back to MeeGo.
MeeGo is a big chance for Nokia, BMW or Asus want to cooperate with Nokia because of MeeGo.
webwalk® said:
well i guess its true..
see windows has 80% of global traffic, you can see the power of microsoft there. im sure windows phone will be the most used mobile phone os in lets say 4-8 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you're talking about here with the 80% traffic.
mmm, what is going to suddenly drive the TENS OF MILLIONS of iphone users to wp7 ?
android is growing, rim is dying, and wp7 has yet to show -any- official numbers. please correct me here, and provide a source.
nokia can make awesome hardware, why should they limit themselves to one user base ? nokia wants to sell as many devices as vpossible, beit symbian, android, wp7, wm6.5, or anything. they don't care so long as it sells.
for once microsoft has to prove and win customers, instead of being able to force hardware suppliers to install their os.
If Nokia decides to come on board, at least that would mean good things for lots of the markets where WP7 is crippled. I doubt Nokia would hop on a platform that lacks half of its functionality in their major markets.
maybe they can make it multi-task
swang wang wang.. .
trollbait
ohgood said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about here with the 80% traffic.
mmm, what is going to suddenly drive the TENS OF MILLIONS of iphone users to wp7 ?
android is growing, rim is dying, and wp7 has yet to show -any- official numbers. please correct me here, and provide a source.
nokia can make awesome hardware, why should they limit themselves to one user base ? nokia wants to sell as many devices as vpossible, beit symbian, android, wp7, wm6.5, or anything. they don't care so long as it sells.
for once microsoft has to prove and win customers, instead of being able to force hardware suppliers to install their os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
80% traffic, of the world, of all computers in the world.
even if its forced. its the force. windows is home os#1 by choise.
check this engadget traffic report
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/ios-now-accounts-for-2-of-global-web-browsing-traffic-chrome-r/
well this is based on data by http://www.netmarketshare.com dont know how they get their infos...
now who is driving iphone users to wp7..
good point, but its simple again, apple will do themself
its simple math .. iphone 1 was 1000€ on release day
that was around 4 years ago. since then every year a new iphone arrived.
apple will keep this up. but now, 4 years later your iphone wont receive any more updates, you cant use the software from appstore and you are forced to buy a new phone. you think twice if you spend a fortune on that again.
this is when wp7 kicks in. its not big now, but it will be in 2 years. people dont know it yet, but everyone i showed my phone loved it. people who used iphone for some years get tiered of iOS. and people are never satisfied, they always want something new.
another point is, there is only 1 (one) iphone .. but already now plenty of wp7 devices. now people trust in nokia for quality phones. they trust in mircosoft for quality software. im not saying they will only produce wp7 devices, but would be stupid if they wouldnt do even 1.
android, well, yeah its awesome, but not for average people. people who love smartphones in general all got a droid, but what about the people still rocking sony erricson feature phones, people with not much general interrest in computers or phones.
and i dont think wp7 has to proove anymore...
if you take a look at the wishlist:
The Windows Phone 7 Feature Request & Suggestion Thread Part 4
http://social.answers.microsoft.com...7/thread/90369a37-02fa-4e92-b0f6-71584a9cadd5
there is not much left...
What do you think IOS wont change? Do you think it will just stay the same? What about any of the other competitors? Will they not grow?
People said they loved Zune years ago, has it overtaken anything?
Nice assumption, but its just that, and nothing realistic about it.
I would not mind nokia hw and wp7 software at all. It could be the best of both worlds plus nokia has been inching toward winmo for a while
let's be real they have and nokia has market presence that can improve microsoft awareness internationally. It's actually a good idea if executed right
this will be great! with Nokia's reach in a ton of countries, this could potenially spread WP7 around the globe and not just on select countries
Bloomberg reports its all but a done deal
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-09/nokia-is-said-to-be-near-partnership-with-microsoft.html
I would love to see nokia and microsoft put an offline navigation software on the phone..
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Nokia build quality and engineering combined with WP7(+) software could be something really awesome. Symbian has been useless and outdated for ages, last above-average thing to come out from Nokia was E51 and that was back in 2007...
Actually, all these sources only speak about some "partnership". It doesn't necessarily mean Nokia phones running WP7.
vangrieg said:
Actually, all these sources only speak about some "partnership". It doesn't necessarily mean Nokia phones running WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but let's be honest here, the only thing Nokia has to offer is it's hardware - it's platform is all but irrelevant at this point. So unless Microsoft has been working on a WP7 deal, it has been wasting valuable time it should have been using to roll out a new update .
Sent from my GT-I9000M
radeon_x said:
Yeah but let's be honest here, the only thing Nokia has to offer is it's hardware - it's platform is all but irrelevant at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the question is - does Nokia see it this way? When you listen to SE folks they all go out of their way bragging how their software makes Android so much better and how they add so much value and so on. This is stupid, but that's their official stance.
vangrieg said:
Well the question is - does Nokia see it this way?
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Click to collapse
Based on the leaked memo from the new CEO I would say yes
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/
Sent from my GT-I9000M
It is now official
Go to http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_smartphone_agreement/
All the detail is there. We may at least see Windows Phones with decent cameras now, imaging was always a Nokia strongpoint so I understand
Related
After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..
Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.
vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.
You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.
What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...
Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.
I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!
wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!
This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.
I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.
Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.
pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
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That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
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It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
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N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/ballmer-windows-phones-arent-selling-very-well-but-were-not/
Thoughts?
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
Peew971 said:
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
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If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
vangrieg said:
If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
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Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
Well the fact that Windows phone 7 wasn't selling well was an already known fact. they only manage to get their moneis from royalties.
efjay said:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
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Well, so will I. The topic is about sales though, and I'm not too optimistic about this area now.
I'm sure WP7 won't be abandoned anytime soon so it's not that big of a deal for me personally, but low sales do affect me and you, at least indirectly. I'm less than happy about device selection, for example. Another problem is that MS has been given a lot of credit by developers, but this can't last forever. Sales will have to pick up to keep apps flowing to the platform.
That's what happens when they release a smartphone with no features (no common features of the day).
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
MartyLK said:
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
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I bet the name of the OS hurt sales 10 times more than the feature set.
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy.
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Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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..why to be so anxious? Mango is right on the door steps, Samsung, HTC and others are coming with new devices this year. Nokia will be on the market soon...
So the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android... And I think you also got the news that WP7 apps will also run on Windows 8...So what do you think the developers will do.....?
macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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well windows phones aren't selling but it isn't due to product its due to a lot of other factors...
I'm not worried. WP7 isn't going anywhere and when Windows 8 and WP8 are released that fact that both will be able share apps will push the sales of WP8 devices.
PCs, Slates, Mobile, Xbox. One UI to rule them all.
FTC said:
the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android...
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Software is pretty close, hardware isn't.
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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Sorry but this is Microsoft we are talking about. They have too much money to ever lose Dev suport.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Windows Mobile wasn't really succeeding that much for years and it didn't stop them.
That's true, but the market is different now than it was then. Look how quickly they pulled the plug on the Kin.
And, at its peak, Windows Mobile was quite a bit more successful than WP7 is right now. That's why I think the next 6 months are so crucial.
version numbers dont matter
In this segment, version numbers don't matter. Ms could name it wp99999 (5 9s reference) and no one would care. Its about innovating and unfortunately hardware specs... the UI can only go so far in convincing folks.
Kin has already been mentioned...
I read balmers comments too- that does not sound like an executive with any confidence in a product to me. If he isn't behind it, who is ? Developers won't matter if the os gets the axe from upstairs. Also, it looks very bad to investors and other workers when a failing segment gets money poured into it.
What to do ?
Open the floodgates, subsidize phones for $1 each out the door, and pay off every hardware maker to make more phones.
Will it happen ? Nope.
The people want BOOM! Today, not promises of it sometime soon.
RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Absolutely no chance MS is just going to just up and stop developing WP7. Especially in just 6 months. First thing that comes to mind is how they approached the original Xbox. Lost millions (if not billions) for years but stuck with it. The outlay for WP7 is hardly in the same territory so cost wise thats not a reason for them.
If OEM's bail, we know Nokia wont be one of them. For them to do a reversal would be the death knell for them so no matter what they are going to stick with WP7, even if they have to give it away.
Another reason is WP is becoming a critical part of the ecosystem MS wants to pitch to consumers and businesses. If they abandon it are they going to be using iphone or android to push MS services and software? Even when WM was unpopular they still had some place for it, I dont see them using a competitor's smartphone as the focus for their software. Its one way they can get consumers and businesses into the MS world (as apple is doing) so it would be hard for them to essentially just give up a crucial way to get more people using Microsoft software and services.
Worse case scenario, I see MS and Nokia going it alone, but when it comes down to it thats not a bad combination. I know this forum would love to see WP7 go away, but history has shown us how persistent MS can be, and this is one sector of the market that is too important to think they would just walk away. Windows Phone is a long, long way from going anywhere.
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much. But whats the reason? its pretty simple:
People want APPS not just apps, but whats the difference?
We see Microsoft advertising their software (skype, skydrive etc) all the time but with the iphone in front of it, there is no sign of supporting their own ecosystem!!!!
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has. Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
I actually think that if MS were to tie Google services in a bit tighter (counter-productive to Bing, I know) they'd see a wider adoption.
WP7 is at a disadvantage as Android and iOS had time to 'mature' in the market and get the userbase using their respective services before the WP alternative even existed. I know personally, I migrated away from MS services like Hotmail once I stopped using WinMo 6.
Without support for competitors services, there's not even an inclination to 'jump ship' and experience the other side. I enjoy using WP7 a lot - there's no more fluid experience on the market today. But because I can't properly use all my (now Google) services, I can never daily drive it.
yes thats also a good point! if they would work together with google in "peace" users would be more thankful. In europe bing is useless to be honest
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
The Lumia 900 should've been the device that launched the whole thing. Not one that came out 1.5 years after, and that followed it's little brother. 800 first? So people see it, aren't impressed, then see an ad for the 900... which is indistinguishable to people (present company excepted of course). It's just been ****ty luck and history mixed with bad marketing decisions.
Its Microsoft’s own fault things are the way they are. With Windows Mobile they didn't consider the phone market to serious until they saw Apples success but then they still came late to the game because instead of making Windows Mobile better they decided they would scrap it and come up with something new; only thing was that even though Windows Phone is faster and doesn’t freeze as much, they took away all features and functionality that people were used to. With Microsoft being so busy trying to be like Apple, Android took advantage of that; they knew that people didn't want a locked down OS. It is a shame that I have to hack, mod and flash my phone to have simple stuff like BT file transfer, video MMS, and a lot of other simple stuff that's avilabe for other phone OS's out there. I hope they don't screw up Windows Phone 8 like they did with Windows Phone 7.
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
I would say with market share that has doubled in the first quarter of 2012 in the USA and market share going up all around the world, that for a new ecosystem in the mobile world it is actually doing fairly well. With WP8 just around the corner and it being able to support much better hardware and screens and more customisation I would say that number will start to go up even quicker, it will be the 3rd ecosystem for sure fairly soon, It may even jump to 2 in certain countries around the world.
bassembrace said:
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much.
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Click to collapse
We need to see Q2 global sales. I haven't bought a smartphone in YEARS and I finally jumped on the Windows Phone/Nokia bandwagon.
bassembrace said:
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has.
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Maybe. Statistics have shown most apps are never used a couple of weeks after they are downloaded. The ridiculous app numbers quoted for iOS are pointless. The vast majority of them, 99%, have zero utility for me.
bassembrace said:
Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
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Click to collapse
Marketing.
Beta was better than VHS. VHS won. The sheeple don't care about quality. It's not a case of "if you build it they will come." It is a case of "if you market it they will come." Anyone that holds a Lumia 900 up next to ANY iPhone and determines the iPhone is better is insane. Girlfriend has iPhone 4S. She saw my Lumia 900. She wanted one. Simple as that. You add in the fact the Lumia was FREE for weeks and you really need your head examined if you don't give it serious consideration. FREE Nokia drive?! Same GF had to pay $40.00 for Garmin app for a recent trip. That's $40 more than I paid for my phone and FREE nokia drive. Do NOT get me started on LTE.
The best does not always win. I just want three strong ecosystems competing. Watch what happens. iPhone 5 gonna come out with much larger screen. If not they are going to look silly next to Lumia 900 and Samsung Note. Samsung Note is redonkulous.
jasongw said:
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope your right and I also hope no more of this Apple style locked down crap either. What MS has failed to remember is that WM had a very faithful following because it was way better and user friendly than the iCrap.
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
sure haven't said:
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
Lets hope they will do it! I remember when i got my hd7 my friends were like "whoaaa, you have windows phone!!" but now after they used my phone a few times theyre like "oh you still have this phone?" and i say yes because i love it, i love the OS and even the HD7 hardware but you cant do so much withouth the "exclusive" apps. I hope MCSFT get the most important cross platform apps to windows phone and dont scr** them up, like skype with no notification and background system or the new app viber without VOIP
Window mobile phone not going down at all. I honestly like what Microsoft's doing. There not pushing pointless apps out, there not shipping out phones that's loading with battery killing/memory hog apps.
Only thing that there behind in and my opinion is the build quality. 8G of memory no micro SD card slot! That's kills a perfect phone! If Ur going to do that - Microsoft, make an 8G, 16G, 32G, and 64G version
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
So if all of this is true why do they market Windows Phone to not be in beta?
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
z33dev33l said:
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
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Click to collapse
So true! I was playing with the lumia 710 at an T-Mobile kiosk at the mall, and i fell in love. I wanted to leave my phone there and run away with the 710.
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magicsquid said:
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
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Great post is great.
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nicksti said:
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
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They still don't get it. 2 years and they don't get it.
BTW the new app deal by Nokia is horrible. MS should be doing it for the entire platform not just for Nokia. Some apps will be exclusive until 2013.
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vetvito said:
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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+1 ...Yes ..another one !!!
Get a life m8's No its not going down ..
Saw this great article (http://www.wpcentral.com/nokia-causing-fragmentation-windows-phone-their-exclusive-apps) and it's worth discussion. Actually I'm pissed about what Nokia is doing. Is it by force to use a Nokia device?? If I dont, why I'm I being punnised for it by not getting some good apps?
Nokia has made moves to gain some big titles (and leverage) for their hardware. Who does it hurt? Who does it benefit and is it a good thing? I say a BIG NO, it's not a good thing. Good for Nokia but not for the OS (Windows Phone)
The real deal is, Nokia’s strategy to get these apps and games on their hardware will definetely hurt Windows Phone and I can see Nokia's Version of Windows Phone coming out real soon and it aint good.
Pissed this morning, Always Nokia, Nokia, Nokia all ove the news with exclusive good apps.....WTF
All of the applications will be timed exclusive to nokia phones. Since the applications will be arriving sooner or later to other windows phones, i see no harm is being made. That being said, i think this is nokia trying to make developers care for the windows phone platform and is helping them to develop their applications for windows. That is probably why they get a timed exclusive for their phones. In the end, every windows phone user will be benefited as more applications will arrive to the platform!
I do not see why this is a bad thing.
1. Every manufacturer has their exclusive apps. Nokia is not the first one to do this, it's what manufacturers need on WP7 to differ themselves from each other.
2. Some of these are not even proper exclusives. These are timed exclusive and will be available to other phones at a later time as well.
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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ESPN has another app, and is also available online. CNN can be pulled into any RSS reader. Are these the only examples you have?
If so, the argument is very weak.
For the apps that dont exist - would they at all anyway if not for Nokia? Would you get them any sooner if not for Nokia? At all?
I see no validity in the argument for fragmentation. App availability by region has always been there. Is China causing fragmentation in WP7 because Twitter and Facebook have been removed for any handset sold in China?
Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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Because Nokia is investing the time and money to develop these apps in the first place or at least is incenting the content owner (CNN or ESPN) to create these apps.
as eknutson described it already: If not for Nokia, you'd probably not see these apps at all or at least a lot later, when the OS has seen a wider range of adoption.
Let me also point out that some apps are not even without an alternative. Take the announced "BOX" app: Why wait for an official app, if "Boxfiles For Box.net FREE" does the same job?
If you managed to live without a paypal app this long, why not another 6 months?
hMM
i have to admit the ESPN app on Nokia is nice, I just used the switcher app in the forum.
LOL, what is all the nonsense about fragmentation?
You act like the apps won't work on other WP devices.
Nokia coughed up their own money to make the developers bring these apps to WP and you want them to then share with other OEMs?!?
OEMs who have been in the game significantly longer and have simply twiddled their thumbs and blamed MS for all WP woes while pumping out me-too devices as opposed to innovating?
BE REAL!
Thank Nokia for giving these developers the incentive to give WP the time of day.
Once they begin working on their apps, they will realize just how easy it is to code for the OS, leading to more apps in the future as opposed to the current developers having to rely on APIs that blocked all the time (Pandora, Instagram) so they too can produce their own original apps for the platform.
Plus fragmentation refers to the OS version, not the apps themselves.
And if you're so mad about it, go buy a Nokia device.
Well let's see, either Nokia gets them first by paying cash out of their own pockets and then in time shares it with the OEMs who couldn't care less about doing anything for the platform, or we don't get them at all because no OEM cares. Without Nokia, WP7 really would be a lesser OS. Don't get me wrong, I used a DVP for almost a year before the first Nokia device got sent my way, but Nokia made WP7 MUCH better.
Not only does this give us the games, it builds the framework to create future versions of the game. This is helping WP7 perpetually, now stop getting angry that you picked up a piece of recycled android hardware and be happy for all that Nokia has done for our fine OS.
Other OEM's are free to make deals with big development companies too...
But they won´t, take a look at HTC for example, they could make deal with Route 66 about navigation, for example one/two free maps, but no, they offer you trial, and then you must pay.
Excellent comments so far but I still don't think it's fair for people to benefit more than others on the same OS. In the Android world, I think it's about OS customizations and not apps benefits. All apps are acquired by everyone, the only difference being your customizations and experience.
Secondly, I know some HTC and MS workers will see this post, after all they are here with us under disguise ;-)
Yea, right, I hate everyone who owns an HTC because he has an sound enhancer...wait, I don´t, I don´t even hated LG for having DLNA app in front of many others...just think please!
Some companies put simply more effort into the platform, HTC puts it into the Android OS, Nokia is so far first OEM whose commitment can be really seen, and you want to hate just because of that? Gimmie a break.
It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?
thebobp said:
It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?
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Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?
vnvman said:
Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?
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I'm not talking about skinning (which the user can rationalize as "am i buying this look or that look?" ) but apps actually being unavailable depending on which phone you buy. Say all manufacturers start advertising very hard: "come to us; the others don't have these apps!" Unfortunately, this is negative advertising, and incoming users would start wondering "eh, why don't i just go to iOS, where i'll have all of them?" that's the essence of fragmentation.
Of course, the other alternative (that nobody else bothers to escalate) is almost as bad.
sent from my Terran Command Center.
This thread must be a wind-up. Seriously -- no one could be complaining about "fragmentation" due to one OEM deciding to bring more value to their own handsets.
Kenzibit said:
Is Nokia causing fragmentation on Windows Phone with their exclusive apps? YES
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I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
HTC can join the party or fold. By Nokia enticing developers with ITS OWN MONEY they are only expanding the Windows Phone eco system. I don't really see a time in the future where so many apps are bought up everyone has a hard time getting an app on their phone. Once a critical mass of apps are on Windows Phone more handsets will sell and developers will create apps without incentives. Heck if someone enticed epocrates to create a Windows Phone version of their software I would buy that brand of phone. That would be better than the current state of affairs (ie nothing).
sitizenx said:
I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
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Same result either way: the app is available only for Nokia (at least temporarily). If you agree the latter is fragmentation, then you'll agree the former is. Fragmentation for a good reason is still fragmentation.
Right now it's not that worrisome; what is worrisome is if the others happen to respond in kind. Then we'll really have fragmentation of apps - "such and such is available only on HTC Windows Phone, such and such only on Samsung Windows Phone, and such and such only on Nokia".
That's not "fragmentation," it's "exclusivity."
Different issue.