Develop Bugs

"Multitasking" Stopwatch

Just to repeat myself about "tombstoning" and how it can represent multitasking as most people think of it, this article gives you an idea:
http://www.clr-namespace.com/post/Windows-Phone-7-Multitasking.aspx

Oh wow... so we can have (inaccurate) stopwatches "running" in the background on WP7? Great!
So, when I build a satellite navigation app, I set up a tombstone when the application is closed and when it's reactivated, I can calculate where the user is, because I knew where he was and how fast he was driving when he closed the app?
Awesome!
(oh and of course I don't take any responsibility for car accidents caused by my app - blame Microsoft or the idiots who said multitasking isn't needed when you got tombstones!)

You know, you would just use GPS for that

Yeah because usually it takes 0.000001 seconds to get a GPS fix!
Awesome!
Wait..... but how is my app supposed to give directions when it's closed? Hm, maybe not so awesome after all...
Satellite navigation is one of the most important things a smartphone must do and it sucks with WP7.
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
WP7 does none of those three things! No Youtube, no Pandora, no porn... (don't know why people want porn on their phones, but I understand the Youtube part).
Seriously, how many moronic defenses can you fanboys come up with? This OS will be an even bigger failure than Kin if Microsoft doesn't change directions fast!

How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?

I don't have a device to test with but I doubt it takes long for an app to get a fix. The OS probably keeps the GPS somewhat hot. Remember, Bing uses it when you search so they don't want it taking forever either.
And Bing has Satnav. Yea, I'm sure some will want a 3rd party solution but for most people, the FREE included nav will be just fine.

Fermat said:
Yeah because usually it takes 0.000001 seconds to get a GPS fix!
Awesome!
Wait..... but how is my app supposed to give directions when it's closed? Hm, maybe not so awesome after all...
Satellite navigation is one of the most important things a smartphone must do and it sucks with WP7.
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
WP7 does none of those three things! No Youtube, no Pandora, no porn... (don't know why people want porn on their phones, but I understand the Youtube part).
Seriously, how many moronic defenses can you fanboys come up with? This OS will be an even bigger failure than Kin if Microsoft doesn't change directions fast!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Flash is coming to the phone just after launch so that will solve your Youtube/Porn issue.

Windcape said:
How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It allows you to continue using your turn-by-turn GPS while conducting a phone call

Windcape said:
How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By giving voice guidance in background, for example.
RustyGrom said:
I don't have a device to test with but I doubt it takes long for an app to get a fix. The OS probably keeps the GPS somewhat hot. Remember, Bing uses it when you search so they don't want it taking forever either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you search you don't need GPS, cell tower location is sufficient. Not so for driving. That cell tower location data helps to get the initial fix faster in modern devices, but still it's not instantaneous, which is a problem when you get an incoming phone call while using satnav in areas you don't know well. Otherwise, of course the OS doesn't (and shouldn't) keep GPS on. iOS 4 will keep it on while you're running satnav apps. WP7 won't.
RustyGrom said:
And Bing has Satnav. Yea, I'm sure some will want a 3rd party solution but for most people, the FREE included nav will be just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that will depend on where you live and where you travel. Bing Maps has horrible coverage worldwide. Apart from that, online satnav apps are an absolute taboo while roaming, you'll end up with thousands of dollars in your bill.

I think that incoming call doesn't suspend your app, the app will be allowed to keep working on foreground.
Also, GPS fix (cold) takes about 20s on my TP2, warm is instant . (Depends on if I have downloaded QuickGPS data though, but that's why I have data plan for.)

Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny

vetvito said:
Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when I had a iphone when I switched apps they didnt pause I had to start over when I returned to it, on wp7 it pauses it so in most cases its the best way to do it..it helps save battery while still being able to what you need to do. very few apps need to run in the backgroud besides GPS & streaming apps, once MS gives access to those apps that need to run in the background then yes it will be a great new direction. for now i dont mind it, i dont use Pandora & even on my tp2 when i use GPS i keep it on screen so i can do without it until they add it

Yeah pretty much like IOS4...

My problem with the iPhone's lack of multitasking wasn't so much with background running as with the fact that there's no easy way to switch between applications (namely, the incoming call while using satnav scenario, which is a major PITA in iPhone's case). I just need to minimize the dialer and keep using navigation. If that's handled (and it is in WP7's case) then the only issue is getting the fix again. Quite frankly, I find the recent iOS approach optimal for most cases, apart from the fact that it only has one button and an ultimately crappy task switcher. WP7 will allow me to go back to satnav with one tap of the Back button, so that'll work.
For other, more rare cases than those covered in iOS 4, I would really struggle to find real-life scenarios where a background process would really need to consume CPU cycles all the time (i.e. actually run). WM has a set of APIs called SNAPI, where background processes simply "register" for certain events and work only to process them. That can be done so that it won't really hurt either battery life or performance.
For the most rare cases where programs actually do need to run in background - well, I see lots of reasons why those can be really restricted, but, like with native APIs, MS could actually make exceptions in certain cases without allowing them by default - at least I would certainly agree with such a policy.
Maybe all this will be done with time, they never said multitasking won't be implemented, they'll just need to think about how to approach it better.
I personally think that lack of multitasking may be a problem, but it's actually the least of my worries with this OS. Much more relevant and serious issues are lack of c&p and lack of ways to register applications as system-wide filetype handlers. These are real bummers (apart from miserable language support and marketplace coverage of course).

vetvito said:
Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except iOS didn't have a "pause" API from vanilla. They introduced something like tombstoning in iOS 4.

Windcape said:
Except iOS didn't have a "pause" API from vanilla. They introduced something like tombstoning in iOS 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did, since the OS 2 release in 2008
In WP7 there's an Application_Deactivated event fired when the user is leaving the app, in the iPhone pre-iOS4 the event function was called applicationWillTermimate but the purpose was exactly the same : allowing the developper to save data before the app shutdown. Some apps were implementing it before iOS4.
In iOS4, the OS save the application state when you leave it (pretty much like Windows hibernation), whereas in WP7, the developper has to do some work to support tombstoning (and i'm not sure all of them developpers will)
I just hope that, when they support background running services API, the task manager won't be as lame as Apple one, showing programs that aren't even running...
My 2 cents

@kooled: Ah, my iPhone knowlegde is flawed then. Thanks for the clarification.
I think we can expect to see a background-service API, once they figured out how to design one that prevents from the phone lagging out entirely, like all Android phones does these days.
Android have taken over Windows role as the OS that requires constant restarts

Windcape said:
Android have taken over Windows role as the OS that requires constant restarts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is really funny - it looks like you really believe these fantazies.
It's a really stable OS.

Fermat said:
And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need porn on your mobile device I suggest you better get a girlfriend
I think it's only US people who care about Pandora since it's not offered over here in Europe. Hey and we are all still alive over here even without it
Anyways: A Pandora app IS being developed, they were called out as a partner (see http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/microsoft-announces-windows-phone-7-series-dev-partners-sling/ ).
I think they might be able to integrate into the Zune hub and use the zune player API too.

The difference between the 2007 iphone and 2010 wp7 not having c&p and multitasking, is that when asked Apple's response was that you didn't need it, and Microsoft's response is that it's done not yet.

A WM/Android User's Take

1st off this is not intended to be a flaming / bashing thread. If you want to do that please go elsewhere; I'm sure the vibrant forums will welcome you. If a MOD feels this belongs somewhere else, please move it.
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Interface - Finally something completely new and wonderful. Microsoft really did hit a homerun on trying to make information at a glance approach. Mail and search apps look beautiful. I thing missing, being able to quickly jump to apps in the app menu.
Lack of Landscape Support- For as great as the UI is I am shocked at the lack of landscape support. The start menu, app menu, nor Zune have lanscape support. You can not even refresh a webpage or type in a website if you are in landscape mode. Calling this anything other than an epic "FAIL" by microsoft is sugar coating it. Especially when the HD7 and Surround beg to be in landscape mode with their kick stands.
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Zune - Wonderful if you have a Zune Pass. Honestly it was one of the main reasons why I bought this phone. I expected it to be awesome and it didn't disappoint. That being said they need to add a Play Now option to the market songs. When I'm browsing the market sometimes I want to queue songs and the Add to Playlist option makes sense but how could you leave out Play now? Seriously?
Another thing I don't like is I can not fast forward to a certain spot in a movie. Video files can be hours long, why should I have to hold the fast forward button to get to the point I'd like. Let me hit the progress bar and then use the rewind / fast forward buttons for getting to the exact point.
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone. I know I could get an audio cable and do the same, but while driving it is so much easier to use the radio head unit to control music rather than your phone. I knew this when getting in bed with WP7, but that doesnt mean I still can't miss it.
Bluetooth- for music works just like it should. however it will not play the audio from video files threw bluetooth. It keeps coming out of my phone's main speakers and there is no way to get into the bluetooth profiles to see if something is wrong. VERY ANNOYING MS. get to fixing it.
People- Wonderful. Could anyone ask anymore? I gave it my facebook and gmail accounts and I didn't have to worry about any contacts not showing up. Love the Facebook updates also.
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Announced fixes- Flash, Copy & Paste, Turn by Turn navigation can't come soon enough but I am glad microsoft acknowledged they needed them.
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Overall- I bought my HD7 without a contract and I am pretty sure i will NOT be returning it. I love my HD7 and WP7, however this OS isn't entirely complete. That being said was iOS and Android complete when they came out? To even suggest that is laughable. I can not wait for microsoft to release all the fixes for this OS because when it does it will be a powerhouse.
I will not buy that this phone is for dumbsmart phone users. I probably done more with my phones than 95% of android users who will do nothing by bash WP7 and i honestly see this for ALL users. It helps bring the powerhouse experience in an easier way without being tied down as much as iOS.

Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.

N8ter said:
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those threads became nothing but flaming / bashing threads. I thought it would be a good idea to try to get away from that.
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
I thought it was annoying not being able to get to the address bar with all that screen space.

I don't know about you guys but my Surround goes into landscape mode IE just fine...
The only thing I don't like is lack of landscape in marketplace and Zune...
also if you want a nice photo editor, Thumba photo editor for $.099 is awesome!
EDIT: Oh i see. I can't believe I have to switch to portrait to type a URL!! WTF microsoft!

jz9833 said:
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree with just about everything you said. Regarding the browser, I've noticed that certain areas of webpages are zoomed in more than others. For instance, on xda, the text of people's posts is HUGE compared to the buttons such as User CP, etc. at the top of the page. What I've found is a double tap in my area of interest on a page will zoom the page so that ONLY my area of interest is approriately sized. Then, when I want to switch to another part of the page, I double tap there and the page will resize, and so on. The text does not dynamically reflow a la Android, but I think it's a pretty usable system.
-R

jz9833 said:
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???

rruffman said:
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.

jz9833 said:
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.

N8ter said:
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree. Basically system is made of apps.
If email app built into it is buggy, we can say OS is buggy.

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you are going to have to disagree with almost all people. This isn't a techy vs jock debate. These are apps which are built into the os and therefore part of the os.
But anyway this thread is meant for objective evaluation of WP7. If you want to continue this debate we should continue it somewhere else.

jz9833 said:
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use search in the people hub for something very similar. Admittedly not an exact substitute but it works well enough for me.

jz9833 said:
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post
jz9833 said:
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
jz9833 said:
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do it this way, then you are working with two sets of data (email, calendar, tasks, contacts, etc.) neither of which is guaranteed to be up to date. I don't see why people think this is preferable to a server-based system.
jz9833 said:
I will not buy that this phone is for dumb smart phone users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully this will be true; I will keep my fingers crossed. Currently, as I see it, they are targeting people who don't understand what files are, and would be confused by files, and who believe that music consists of songs arranged by artists into albums. I.e. the dumb mass market.

CSMR said:
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.

The Gate Keeper said:
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how about an MP3 cd? to play in your car? to lend to a friend? or your USB stick? as soon as it's available on zune desktop you have a copy of it... there is plenty ways around it. i'm not saying you should do it, i'm saying the possibilities are there.

N8ter said:
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the files are not DRMed, and Microsoft wants to protect them, either it can DRM the files, or it can keep them in isolated storage. The existence of common storage doesn't exclude isolated storage.

Defy: my first Android. Very Dissapointed. Why is android so popular?

hi there,
the defy is my very first android-mobile device. I had windows mobile 4,5,6 in the past and i'm using palm pre (webos) since over a year now. I am dissapointed about the apps for webos, because they dont exist every app appears first on iphone.. somethimes for android... and never for webos. So, on amazon-cybermonday, i bought a cheap motorola defy.
But i am dissapointed.. not in the device but in the OS. This is Version 2.1 and feels like a buggy windows mobile 5 Nothing works really intuitively (?).
i installed all the cool apps in from the app-catalog, which first doesn't worked with my gmail-adress. i had to use googlemail.com adress (?). that took me about 2 hours then i installed the facebook app, which didn't told me that i have unred messages. I dont Like this app because i know the webos one.
so i tried google goggels.. cool app, indeed. But after 2 fotos, the device hangs and had to be restarted. there is no button to restart -.- ^^
ok, after the restarts, i tested other apps.. i downloaded very much apps.. there are very trashy apps in the store. Some japanese, chinese and other unreadble apps with no description.. hmm... until a message appears, that i dont have enogh memory and should close some apps. ...
and .. really.. how do you life with a OS without an ability to exit apps?? i had to download a taskmanager to kill open programs (to get 90% of the used memory back.. not 100%).. so after some opening and closing, i had no more memory and had to restart (pardon: shutdown and start) again.
my sum up: i have a mobile phone with has potential. it has a great camera (which an app had destroyed so i cannot use it anymore because blue color switched to red color, it was a filter in an crashed (or killed) app) and a good display, waterproof and long durability.. but the OS is not usable in my option. the apps are not designed well, they are mostly "ugly". i dont know what app is running without looking into another app, which is ugly too
so my question about one week of testing and finally returning to Webos. Why is android so.. unusable? i would call myself as a geek, but hey... that is too much Or.. maybe.. i am doing it wrong! what is possible with an android-phone? how many hours of customizing do you have to spend to have an android which is exactly like you want it? and where can i copy that

I think the problem with the Defy is that it's shipped with Motoblur which is by and large the cause of the "ugliness" and sluggishness of the phone.
Get Launcher Pro, I've only heard good things about it

Sounds like you have been installing a few too many apps my friend!
One of Android's stong points is it's ability for apps to customise the interface and modify the functions of the device. However, this can also be a weakness with poorly written applications bogging things down, or as you experienced with the camera app, stopping some features from working.
I would reset your device back to it's default state, and start again, choosing carefully what you install (tip: Check the reviews and comments in the market before you hit install).

LetoKynes said:
I think the problem with the Defy is that it's shipped with Motoblur which is by and large the cause of the "ugliness" and sluggishness of the phone.
Get Launcher Pro, I've only heard good things about it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think i like the motorola blur although i dont really know where this starts and ends The widgets are ok and the ability to have a connection from my pc zu the android-blur from the internet is good to know if i cannot find my device or want to upload something without moving..
But, like milesg suggested, i will reset the phone.. i have to anyway because of the camera-bug. maybe i can install this launcher.. i dont want to break the phone because it is proberbly a gift for christmas.
@milesg.. i have written the reviews on androit-pitt and have installed only the very good apps.. thats what dissapointed, too. ^^

I wouldn't worry about "breaking" the phone, as far as I know (at least from what I've read), LauncherPro is just a simple download and install app (doesn't involve any unrooting/unlocking/etc.) so I'd definitely give it a shot.

I'm surprised by the undertones of this thread. It's a phone! It's not a general computer, it's not a GameBoy, it's a portable communication device. I have not owned a smartphone before. Well, at least not for long. I tried the HD2 Pro and thought it was a device with the clunkiest interface I ever used. I tried a Blackberry (Bold 9700) and hated the walled-off ecosystem (a reason I will never use Apple devices), and now I got the Defy and after a week of playing and tinkering with the setup I'm happy as a clam. I installed LaucherPro (and paid for the plus version although the only widget I ended up using is the calendar) and PowerBar. Then I added Pure Messanger for my unified Gmail inbox. I have no Motoblur accounts, no Social services of any kind, only two home screens (one for e-mail, and one for weather/calendar/Reuters news, and a few shortcuts), and that's it! I've got a phone with good quality calls, great speakerphone, maps, navigation, e-mail, and IM on the go. I'm happy. Less (of good quality) is more.

prophil said:
Or.. maybe.. i am doing it wrong! what is possible with an android-phone? how many hours of customizing do you have to spend to have an android which is exactly like you want it? and where can i copy that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you to some extent. I just finished 2 days of getting my new phone to run, and I only persisted because I am a software developer and never give up on a computer, as small as it may be. In terms of immediate usability, my previous SonyEricsson P1 is still ahead.
just some examples: after importing my contacts through motoblur, I realized that birthdates were not mirrored in the calendar. I created a few test contacts, whose birthdates DID appear. I now decided to delete all contacts from MB and re-import through my google account. After that, the birthday events of the newly created entries were still in the calendar, even though the contacts proper were deleted. I had to root my device, install a database client app, and go directly to the Contacts/Events database to delete the entries.
This morning, the calendar widget insisted on showing yesterdays date. No way of convincing it that this was the 8th of December. Meanwhile (12:00 am) it has caught up, however.
Bottomline: if you feel this platform is still in its infancy, and it is questionable how it will ever become the platform of choice for your wife or for efficiency-oriented business purposes (in other words: non-geek usage), you have my sympathy.
chris

I installed LaucherPro (and paid for the plus version although the only widget I ended up using is the calendar) and PowerBar. Then I added Pure Messanger for my unified Gmail inbox. I have no Motoblur accounts, no Social services of any kind
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sounds like you did the right things - i will investigate this for myself. But you really just confirm what has already been said. Unless one has a clear understanding of what does not work, and what alternatives are available, the DEFY (and probably any other Motorola phone, and most other brands as well) will cause a lot of frustration.

I say exchange/return it asap and get a diff andriod device before getting stuck in a 2 yr contract....but don't let that one phone give a bad rep to all android phones...get an android that doesn't come w motoblur
*Sent from my Tmobile MT4G*

I installed launcher pro as well. Phone runs supper smooth now. Also, this thing is way better than gameboy. I play nes and snes games all day

@prophil
Windows mobile (note not WP7) is the best OS ever, so i can understand you're disappointed.
But, be realistic, development is getting poor and WM will die soon.
All the OS available today are worst than WM but you have to chose one of them if you want to do more than calls with your phone. In my opinion Android is the best choice among those OS, that's the reason it is so popular.

MarSOnEarth said:
I installed LaucherPro (and paid for the plus version although the only widget I ended up using is the calendar) and PowerBar. Then I added Pure Messanger for my unified Gmail inbox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you please tell me where to find PowerBar? Cant find it in the AppStore

I felt the same way about my hero until i found xda!!
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

Lol you're coming from a winmo and saying that android isn't intuitive and that its ugly? Lmao ok. I've never used a winmo that i didn't wanna throw off the bridge.
Sent from my DEFY using XDA app

I love Android noobs
Sent from my defy using XDA App

disturkis4u said:
Lol you're coming from a winmo and saying that android isn't intuitive and that its ugly? Lmao ok. I've never used a winmo that i didn't wanna throw off the bridge.
Sent from my DEFY using XDA app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. BB is too limited and win mo was probably the worst
System ever

disturkis4u said:
Lol you're coming from a winmo and saying that android isn't intuitive and that its ugly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, i see that my poor englisch leads to a miss understanding. I'm not coming from Windows Mobile. I had owned a xda and and xda2i .. thats about 8 years ago i think?.. and i could get used to it. it was cool.. you could do a lot of things.. (while other phones still had monochrome displays).. but the feeling, that the OS and the Device were married like El and his wife in "married with children" is : that just doesn't work.. so i had putted it in my desk and forgot about it. for about 7 years or so. I thought things have changed.. but they haven't really.
I come from WebOS.. that was.. is.. my actual smartphone-OS. That is exactly like a OS should look und feel in my opinion.. <- that was my mind before i every tried iOS or Symbian or Android... i never will go to Apple, so my curiosity leads me to android. That should be the best, they all told me. (ok, like iOS is the best is what all the apple-people tells me). And.. its not
Have to ever had the chance to test webOS?
anyway, my work is done, im at home now and im just going to reset the device and try my luck again

Fact is Android might not be for you. But that doesn't mean it's a bad OS, just means it's not what you want in an OS.
Definitely need to take your time with downloading apps your first try out with the phone. Don't go app crazy. Download a few of them, test them out, uninstall those you don't like and go on, but don't do this with twenty apps at a time.
My first Android phone was a Cliq...believe me you are much better off with the Defy.

Its me again
I've been installing and testing.. configuring and uninstalling.. i think.. i made one mistake on my first run. i didn't installed the launcher Pro!
after i installed the launcher pro, the OS is becoming usable.. i can make folders instead of scrolling through a buggy endless list of apps. and if i want to scroll, it is smoothy
then, i have found very attraktiv apps, like a file-manager with bluetooth and smb support. and i can send everything from and to my dlna-devices. .. ok.. thats just funktionality, not more.. but.. i think, i just have to play some more days with the OS to get used to it..
or.. shouldn't I because i will give it away (gift^^)

I used my Samsung Soul for more than two years before I moved to Motorola Defy to increase my productivity. In 2000 I bought the HP Jornada 720 (WinCE) that I really liked but stop using it as it wasn't truly a portable device and I couldn't possibly have it with me everywhere. I kept it until 2008 as a secondary backup solution for important information such as contacts before threw it away.
Now that I own an Android OS based mobile phone for more than a week I can say that I'm kind of disappointed with the OS. Maybe I had too much expectations but I'm not disappointed enough to give up the OS just yet.
Android 2.1 out of box is hardly worth investing in my opinion when you have no use for social networking i.e. Facebook and twitter features. However, the prospect of checking emails on the road with availability of a wireless connection is very appealing to me but Android 2.1 is very poor in supporting multiple email accounts. I understand that Android 2.2 has a better email support but I have to wait up to six months for better support. It is beyond me how Google didn't see the demand of such feature in the first place. I think the lack of proper email support in Android 2.1 demonstrates that Google didn't target users like me originally.
The lack of Office Suite is another disappointing thing for me. Out-of-box I cannot even write/read a simple note in a text file. The sticky notes widget shipped with Motorola Defy does not serve my needs at all. I would have loved to be able to trasnfer a word document to my phone for later reading.
I'm sure there is an app on the market for whatever I want my smartphone to do but the cost and time I have to invest deters me even from trying.
I haven't found browsing internet on a 3.7" device a pleasant experience but having that feature in Android by default is assuring for urgent matters when a laptop or desktop PC is not available.
I'm also pleased that I can watch videos and listen to music when I left my Sony Walkman S series at home. Watching video on 3.7" device is certainly an advantage but the battery usage is always a concern on phone devices but not with PMP devices.
I was also surprised to find the lack of customisation compared to my Samsung Soul. Everything about Samsung Soul can be customised and one can build his own theme without any technical knowledge. In Android 2.1 only ring tones and wallpapers are customisable. I can't even change the background colour of system menus for instance. I'm sure there is an app for that.
Google's own services/apps are great if you have a use for them. For instance google's map comes handy for me very occasionally. I have lived without it so far while I was on the road. On the other hand, I will have a use for a proper GPS software such as CoPilot that I intend to purchase soon and I'm pleased it is available for Android platform.
Conclusion
I doubt it Motorola will upgrade Defy beyond Android 2.2 and I'm willing for the time being stick with Motorola Defy until end of 2012.
By no means I dislike Android but in terms of productivity I expected much more. All the features I use on my Motorola Defy can also be found on other mobile platforms so nothing to praise about when it come to Android. The initial ownership cost of my Motorola Defy which I like the hardware very much is much lower than equivalent/similar handsets on other mobile platforms.
In my opinion Android platform is not suited for very active business users nor power users like me out-of-box. Once out-of-box features are improved for business oriented users or power users then I do not see why I should consider what other mobile platforms are offering.

Pros/Cons of WP7 ?

I recently jumped the ship from iOS to Android, and being dissapointed by the "Android-Experience" (Overall esthetics, User-friendliness, etc etc..), I was considering changing to WP7. Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Thanks in advance.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay

I dont want to spam, but i am a Android Xperia Neo (2.3) and a WP7 Mango (with the HTC Trophy user) and i recomend you to see this video I made up youtube.com/watch?v=NNo13-LUlHo (if it inst allowed than i will remove the link). Well i prefer WP7 because of its estability and interface and smoothness. Sorry for my bad english

Jay_uk1185 said:
For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will be on to a winner with WP7 to be honest. It certainly presents the information in a far better and more innovative way than any of the competition and certainly works far more reliably.
The only caveat is that up until you have Mango - the live tile updates are terribly unreliable. (These are the widget-type tiles on the start screen)
Jay

WP7 is pleasure to use but is at an earlier stage in its life than ios or android, it has the potential to be a leading smart phones but I'd wait a few weeks to see if mango manages to push us to the forefront ?

Yeah, I was gonna wait a month or two to see how Android fares with me, and then eventually jump ship ... again
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

yup can't go wrong with wp7 everything is much faster and cleaner while android and iOS are just offering specs and graphics, wp7 is offering real usability and features.

Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.

day2die said:
Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS's look is the first reason I'd move to wp. The integration astounded me, we're only seeing it appear in iOS 5 (I'm a beta tester), and as for Android ...
I'd heard of the hardware stability, that'd be a definite plus+. Can't wait to try it out !
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

I look at WP7 as having the best of both iOS and Android.
On one hand you have the Android approach of different handset makers and a choice in hardware. Like Apple, Microsoft is showing tight control over the OS. So between two WP7 handsets you aren't going to see a huge difference in terms of how the OS performs. The biggest problem I have had with Android in the past is how the user experience is vastly different between two phones, especially when hardware manufacturers start skinning the OS.
You honestly can't go wrong with WP7, especially with the Mango update around the corner.

omnomnomkimiiee said:
Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?

CSMR said:
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
User: both, private/business 30%/70%
Computer skills are rather mediocre in the ms/linux world, I'm more of an os x guy.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.

Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
EDIT: Just a little correction to the person who mentioned Chrome. WP7 does indeed have the "Chrome" element of the UI. The Status Bar at the top that auto hides is Chrome & so is the Menu Bar. It just auto hides & in some apps, isn't there at all (aka fullscreen mode).

drkfngthdragnlrd said:
Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u earned a thanks from me. I do believe that th apps will get better once the mango ones hit the marketplace. I rarely use them tho as like yourself almost everything I do can be done in the OS on its own

I am on mango, here is my list:
Pros:
Smoothness
The live tiles (I know it sounds like the windows phone catchphase but mango upped the info and style of them and made them a powerful tool)
Social network intergation (having the people and messaging hubs allow you to do 80% of the stuff that you do on it I.E. Facebook and having the cache locally instead of waiting for an app to pull it live from the site.
Search and bing vision, audio, local scout (having it all at your fingertip)
Tellme! The voice command is awesome and I sometimes use it to show off =)
Metro UI, simple and clean and easy to look at
IE it is the smoothest browser around, no checkering
Cons:
Customization
Playing app catchup (mango should fix it and see a lot of ports from iOS and android very soon)
Video scrubbing
No way to bring back toast notications
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.

hardcoreplur said:
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probably one of the best descriptions I've heard about WP7 & couldn't be more true. While WP7 is not perfect. It does indeed grow on your & 99% of what you need to to you can figure out how to do in some ingenious ways. It is a beautiful thought out OS.

omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GUI and the essential smart-phone stuff (email, calendar, contacts, social media integration) work really well. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Bad things you'll discovered compared to iOS is lack or apps, and lack of google maps and other google services. Remember WP7 uses Bing, which is very USA-centric, and Microsoft keep regions very cut off from each other. So if you do live in France as your avatar suggests, you may find several features (such as maps and local scout) don't work, and the French app store may be pretty sparse (and no you won't be allowed to access the UK or US one).

I 2nd that. WP7 as far as services go is a worse experience outside the US, & something you should look into before making a decision.

Many people complains about the need for Zune Sync instead USB Mass Storage. I am the opposite one - I like this better. Why?
You are sure, that the phone will play the music or movie (converting 1.5 hours long movie took 3 minutes on my PC).
Also, when you are watching movie on phone, then close it somewhere during the movie, sync the phone to PC and open the movie in PC (through Zune), it will continue where you left off - that is something that without Zune Sync can't be done.
I use Zune for listening to music anyway. Just drag & drop the music on icon of your phone and once you connect it, it synces all the changes and adds music and what not.
And major PRO for WP7 is the UI. Best UI around. UI designed for phone from beginning, that is not just rows and columns of icons.

Mango is here... Where are the apps?

Remember when people were complaining about a lack of good apps and all they could hear was "There's no API for that, wait for Mango, bla bla bla...".
Developers have had the tools since when? May, June, July? Yet the only worthy app we've seen is WhatsApp. At a time when people are preordering the iPhone 4S like crazy, isn't it time WP crank it up a bit?
Why can't I have something as simple as Audible for instance (heck, there isn't even an Amazon app outside the US)? It's like the world stopped with Mango, I don't get it.
[Insert "you're to impatient", "buy an iPhone" comments here]

a good chat client. WhatsApp, IM+ DO NOT count as good chat clients. They are both broken, slow, buggy, laggy and half the time don't even work. If someone now says IM+ works then I'll ask them to use it on iOS or Android and see what 'works' REALLY means.

I must admit I was all excited about getting Mango and having Live tiles on the home screen.
Sadly there are hardly any good apps to use, And even fewer with live tiles.
{I would love Twitter to have a live tile}
The little things like no WiFi tethering and no decent Navigation app for WP7 is testing my patience as well. I am hoping Nokia will rectify these short comings as I really do love the windows software.
I just hope the hardware that this platform deserve is released soon.

TuneIn radio has been updated to Mango, and now supports background audio. That's the best update I've had - use that app all the time. Other than that a few of my map apps (Bingle Maps, GMaps) open quicker, but that's it really.
Yeh is a bit of a let down so far; still no augmented reality apps yet, or properly good WP7 exclusive games (could we have *one* FPS please?)

another complaining thread sighs....

sayonical said:
another complaining thread sighs....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well WP7 isn't a bed of roses as you might think it is. For those who paid through the roof have the right to complain if the platform doesn't meet their expectations.

agp64 said:
..... The little things like no WiFi tethering and no decent Navigation app for WP7 .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe Navigon Navigator does'nt support your region but for 95% of the users Navigator IS a decent navigation app (and version 4 should to be released soon to the market i read somewhere).
There will never be an OS that will fully forfill YOUR needs but when it does what the majority of users want it's on the right way.

I dont get the "no good gps apps" argument. Is Garmin Streetpilot not available in the US or Europe?

How about this. Let's come up with a list of the apps that we really want and some of us can start to ping them (via twitter or email) to see whether or not they are working on a WP7 app and any idea when it's coming.

Im getting 5+ updates everyday and most are for mango. It takes time.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

PG2G said:
How about this. Let's come up with a list of the apps that we really want and some of us can start to ping them (via twitter or email) to see whether or not they are working on a WP7 app and any idea when it's coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an idea I can run with instead of countless posts moaning and groaning!
I'll start
Ereader.com (Back when I had my pocket pc, then android so I have a lot of books on there, would love to have this on wp7) However Barnes and Nobles own the company now and they have the nook so probably a hopeless cause....
A Barnes and Noble Nook app wouldn't hurt though...
sent the tweet: @BN_care will you be releasing a Nook app for Windows Phone 7? I'd also like to read my ereader.com books on my windows phone. Help!

the92playboy said:
I dont get the "no good gps apps" argument. Is Garmin Streetpilot not available in the US or Europe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Garmin is US only, Navigon so far is only available in Germany (?)
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
Garmin is US only, Navigon so far is only available in Germany (?)
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Canada also has Garmin, and works awesome for those interested.

This is pretty much the reason I can't see myself switching. I have an iPhone. Why do I want to move to a platform where I can do less than I already can? I really want certain apps on WP7 before I move or I just cannot justify moving. It may be an unimportant app to most people, but an app like Grindr is something I don't want my platform without. Not to mention I have a free turn-by-turn app with iOS(which I believe Nokia is going to be addressing, and is most likely the hardware I'd be buying if I got a Windows Phone).
A lot of people on here(from what I've noticed) are saying that WP7 needs to get more unique apps. While that's nice and all, I want already existing apps. Most of my friends also have iPhones, and I don't want them to tell me to pull up an app and be unable to. I don't really care about the "look what my phone can do and yours can't." I care about being able to do all that they can at the very least.
Many people on here care about games and think that could be the main selling point of WP7. I just don't see it happening. While it's a small sample size, most people I've met pretty much only pick up simple games like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope(if that). I just don't feel that a large majority of smart phone owners want to play action-packed RPGs on their phones. We have computers and consoles for that. And while it might be a nice novelty to be able to once in a while, again, the only games people I know as well as myself play are the simple pick it up for a few minutes and put it back down games.
Next comes the photography apps. I almost never take pictures, but many, many people do. I don't have a WP7 to compare apps with, but I'm curious what the photo apps on there are like. I have Camera+, Hipstamatic, and Instagram on my phone. How do non-native apps(and I guess the native app) on WP7 stack up to those? I hope Nokia will save the day in terms of excellent camera quality, but the in-app editing is also a pretty important feature to me(when I do actually take pictures) and others.
The Windows Phone OS looks pretty amazing, but I just can't justify moving until it can do all that my iPhone can in terms of apps relevant to me. I'm hoping by WP8 it will be all I want and more, and just maybe it will be able to suck me out of the Apple ecosystem. The live tiles are a pretty excellent concept, and while it's compelling, I need more apps to be available. People almost always develop for iOS before they develop for Android or WP7, so it definitely leaves something to be desired in that department.
The only thing I'd be pleased with is the fact that Skype integration is coming. On that token, I already have a Skype app with video calling on the iPhone. So Microsoft has definitely got to step up their game, get existing apps on this platform at all costs, and make sure their own in-house apps completely blow the other platforms' alternatives away.

the92playboy said:
Canada also has Garmin, and works awesome for those interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While iOS and Andorid have MapQuest for free with virtually all the features of Android's Google Maps and Navigation for free.
http://wireless.mapquest.com/
Uses Navteq map data, BTW. Guess they were better at negotiating a licensing deal than Microsoft...

whistler-nl said:
Maybe Navigon Navigator does'nt support your region but for 95% of the users Navigator IS a decent navigation app (and version 4 should to be released soon to the market i read somewhere).
There will never be an OS that will fully forfill YOUR needs but when it does what the majority of users want it's on the right way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all well and dandy for those that have access to it. But there are many areas in Asia that still have no way to navigate offline.
It seems to me that a majority want WIFI tethering to avoid having 2 data plans, The same reason I want it.
My 4 year old Nokia had WIFI tethering and world GPS maps.
I do love this OS. I am hopping Nokia maps will make it our way soon.
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------
Bl4ke said:
This is pretty much the reason I can't see myself switching. I have an iPhone. Why do I want to move to a platform where I can do less than I already can? I really want certain apps on WP7 before I move or I just cannot justify moving. It may be an unimportant app to most people, but an app like Grindr is something I don't want my platform without. Not to mention I have a free turn-by-turn app with iOS(which I believe Nokia is going to be addressing, and is most likely the hardware I'd be buying if I got a Windows Phone).
A lot of people on here(from what I've noticed) are saying that WP7 needs to get more unique apps. While that's nice and all, I want already existing apps. Most of my friends also have iPhones, and I don't want them to tell me to pull up an app and be unable to. I don't really care about the "look what my phone can do and yours can't." I care about being able to do all that they can at the very least.
Many people on here care about games and think that could be the main selling point of WP7. I just don't see it happening. While it's a small sample size, most people I've met pretty much only pick up simple games like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope(if that). I just don't feel that a large majority of smart phone owners want to play action-packed RPGs on their phones. We have computers and consoles for that. And while it might be a nice novelty to be able to once in a while, again, the only games people I know as well as myself play are the simple pick it up for a few minutes and put it back down games.
Next comes the photography apps. I almost never take pictures, but many, many people do. I don't have a WP7 to compare apps with, but I'm curious what the photo apps on there are like. I have Camera+, Hipstamatic, and Instagram on my phone. How do non-native apps(and I guess the native app) on WP7 stack up to those? I hope Nokia will save the day in terms of excellent camera quality, but the in-app editing is also a pretty important feature to me(when I do actually take pictures) and others.
The Windows Phone OS looks pretty amazing, but I just can't justify moving until it can do all that my iPhone can in terms of apps relevant to me. I'm hoping by WP8 it will be all I want and more, and just maybe it will be able to suck me out of the Apple ecosystem. The live tiles are a pretty excellent concept, and while it's compelling, I need more apps to be available. People almost always develop for iOS before they develop for Android or WP7, so it definitely leaves something to be desired in that department.
The only thing I'd be pleased with is the fact that Skype integration is coming. On that token, I already have a Skype app with video calling on the iPhone. So Microsoft has definitely got to step up their game, get existing apps on this platform at all costs, and make sure their own in-house apps completely blow the other platforms' alternatives away.
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Great post Bl4ke.
The cross platform apps are a must for WP7.
I still cannot believe Skype is not available for WP7. My friends laugh when I tell them I do not have Skype on my phone.

It is a disappointment ... coming to WP7 from Android ... I patiently heard the argument that the apps will come once mango is here ... and considering such quick deployment of the update, I was hoping the developers will take notice and flood the market with apps... instead all I see on the marketplace is the same set of apps being repeated in the featured section ...
1. There isnt a decent chat client for WP7
2. Youtube playback seems to be slow
3. No third party browsers ... IE9 does not support text reflow ... i see myself scrolling sideways and downwards ...
4. Bing navigation is so crippled ... thanks to their deal with Navteq
5. Facebook client looks ancient .. Twitter client is marginally better ... where are the live tiles though ?
I can continue ranting but honestly, I feel really sad about how slowly the new apps are coming in ... It was almost the same when I was with Symbian and the Ovi store basically did not grow ... I sometimes get so annoyed with WP7 that I wish to put my sim back in my LG Optimus One (a very midrange phone) ... but heck, I can do a lot more with it ...

k4ce said:
It is a disappointment ... coming to WP7 from Android ... I patiently heard the argument that the apps will come once mango is here ... and considering such quick deployment of the update, I was hoping the developers will take notice and flood the market with apps... instead all I see on the marketplace is the same set of apps being repeated in the featured section ...
1. There isnt a decent chat client for WP7
2. Youtube playback seems to be slow
3. No third party browsers ... IE9 does not support text reflow ... i see myself scrolling sideways and downwards ...
4. Bing navigation is so crippled ... thanks to their deal with Navteq
5. Facebook client looks ancient .. Twitter client is marginally better ... where are the live tiles though ?
I can continue ranting but honestly, I feel really sad about how slowly the new apps are coming in ... It was almost the same when I was with Symbian and the Ovi store basically did not grow ... I sometimes get so annoyed with WP7 that I wish to put my sim back in my LG Optimus One (a very midrange phone) ... but heck, I can do a lot more with it ...
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I am coming from WM 6.5 and its an utter let down and nothing but regrets..
following are some apps which dosent need any further API release, nor any hardware shortcoming:
A 'decent' wallet app. (code wallet pro)
A decent agenda and appointments app (pocket informant)
A call monitoring app, calculating PEAK/offpeak/weekend minutes (phone dashboard) Basic call times is missing from call history.
An application to send SMS on particular time and date, like a SMS scheduler.
SMS backup application.
A Data monitor to calculate how much 3G/WIFI data I am using, weekly/daily/monthly/yearly.
A call/SMS blocker.
Audio recorder to record incoming/outgoing calls automatically. (resco audio recorder)
Last good game which lasted more than one day from start to finish was on 5/18/11: plant vs. zombies. You dont need APIs to make a good nor is their any hardware limitation. There were games in begining but now its just pathetic.. COLLAPSE? Burn the Rope? I mean seriously.. Why we still call it a 'smartphone' with dumb games like that?
All the apps right now are so basic.. and all the 'mango' updates have been equally basic. I guess mango was all about flipping that tile to show other side.. thats it.. we got the flipping tile.. NOW WHAT? WTF can I do more with this phone than just stare at that flipping tile??

Quality apps take time to make. MS did give a decent window to prepare apps, and Kinsoft apps was able to get their apps updated, but we only enabled fast resume - the easiest Mango feature to add. Some of these other features/API's take more time to add or even require a ground-up approach. So give it time.

Wp7 is new. You knew what you were getting yourself into when you bought into the platform.
WP7 won't be perfect overnight. Takes time. If you don't have the patience or certain features are as vital to you as oxygen then by all means sell your wp7 and jump to the flourishing app store of iOS or Android.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App