Develop Bugs

And this is exactly why WP7 is awesome...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/18/visualized-the-glamorous-lifestyles-of-wp7-jailbreakers/
Sooo awesome

Good on you MS.
It's important nowadays for these companies to find a middle ground between locking a product down completely and opening it for everyone/anyone to mess with.
On one hand, if they lock it down, piracy will inevitably occur on a wide scale.
If they open it up, they won't make any money for future developments.
It's good to see they're taking an open approach and using there heads for a change.

its a good thing for MS open up and listen to idea.. wp7 has a bright future.. i haven't touch my droid since oct

I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.

So getting a 4XL T-Shirt declares WP7 as awesome.
Cool

This is great news. I was surprised that MS locked WP7 down so much, and wouldn't be surprised at all if they allowed sideloading in the future, turning the marketplace into a sort of "approved apps" store, like Apple have done on the Mac.
In response to the guy who's never had a job, large corporations are run by a CEO or equivalent, same as everything else. Microsoft would do better to welcome community support than be seen to be outsmarted by it, so I'm sure they will.

vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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Nice way to think positive haha!
We'll get what we want one way or another.

vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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cstrife999 8 hours ago in reply to Sang Noir
Seriously this is nothing short of a PR stunt. I would bet my bottom dollar that behind the scenes things are moving differently.
Are you this guy on Engadget?
Yep vetvito, it's me again. Calling you out on your negativity towards WP7.
I know public discourse is encouraged here but public discourse that's always negative is kinda annoying.
This is an awesome move by MS. Some other companies would've ambushed them with lawyers once they were behind closed doors.

Oh how they have learned
I actually believe that MS has learn't some important lessons prior to releasing Win 7 & Phone 7. The most important one being listen to all your customers and take on board what they are saying.
Will be interesting to see what comes of the discussions and if the OS will be opened up somewhat for customisation.
Go the Chevron guys.. Oh, they are Aussies too.

Hopefully something good comes out of this.
Businesses want the ability to side-load apps also. And I'd love to be able to play with my phone by making apps that I have no intention of trying to sell or market.
Otherwise... well, at least they got a T-shirt.

lekki said:
cstrife999 8 hours ago in reply to Sang Noir
Seriously this is nothing short of a PR stunt. I would bet my bottom dollar that behind the scenes things are moving differently.
Are you this guy on Engadget?
Yep vetvito, it's me again. Calling you out on your negativity towards WP7.
I know public discourse is encouraged here but public discourse that's always negative is kinda annoying.
This is an awesome move by MS. Some other companies would've ambushed them with lawyers once they were behind closed doors.
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What the hell is endgagdet? Who said anything negative?
Anyway, more security is all I see coming.

More awesomeness.
Brandon Watson just sent a tweet to Geohot offering him a WP7 Phone so that he could "build cool stuff" and "let dev creativity flourish."

you think microsoft is that good
they're doing a bit more
http://wmpoweruser.com/geohot-threatens-to-buy-a-windows-phone/
they are personally giving geohot a wp7 device FOR FREE
*claps* bravo microsoft!
unless, they're asking all hackers to plug in all conceivable holes which may lead to less options...
well geohot got more than a tshirt

I believe is going to try to figure out a proper way for people to make homebrew stuff for WP7. Proper meaning that there is some security that needs to go in but still let the developers do whatever they can. Is it walled? Yes, but it to some extent there needs to be security so that the people who are making applications for the marketplace don't get sh*tted on (aka piracy). Hopefully this happens. At least Microsoft is listening.

i believe microsoft is moving in the right direction. we still need to see results, but at least they're making it secure for the people who have no idea, but trying to open it up to those that actually understand what they're doing, and what the risks are for doing it.
Apple and Sony could really learn from MS... who knew that MS wasn't as backward as the media likes to make them out to be.

Brandon Watson and the MS WP7 team are incredibly insightful. Whether it's for PR or not, this is going to make WP7 look MUCH better in the eyes of the public (well, the non-Android and iPhone fanboys anyhow, but the fanboys don't matter anyways).

In the words of Admiral Ackbar.... ITS A TRAP

vetvito said:
What the hell is endgagdet? Who said anything negative?
Anyway, more security is all I see coming.
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I quit reading Engadget after seeing their Apple biased.
So do I, but I am sure that it is much more than that, I hope.

vetvito said:
I smell a publicity stunt. Large corporations are ran by lawyers, not good hearted people that care about what people want.
Do you actually think any thing good will come from this? I see a one sided deal happening nothing more.
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I've worked for large corporations for the last 15 years, and what you said is complete and total bull****. Lawyers don't run the company, they're hired to try and *protect* the company from a lawsuit-happy public. Generally speaking, the people who run large corporations are no different from anyone else.
That said, yes, there are incidents of people becoming power-happy and thinking they can use the protection of a corporation to get away with damn near anything. And more often than not, those people are slapped down like the idiots they are, as they deserve. Meanwhile, the decent people at the company are left to pick up the pieces and try to save what face they can.
It's bad ideology to lump people so blindly into groups the way you just did. It's no different than using race or religion as a basis for discrimination, and you really should think a little more deeply and look at the overwhelming majority of GOOD people who run GOOD businesses rather than tripping into trite generalizations.

I believe MS see the reasoning behind giving their audience what they want. Even though Apple are PR geniouses, MS aren't stupid either. Think of all the programs that are "leaked" to "pirates" and never seem to stop working, even though the serial is openly exchanged. They may not play the media the way Hand Jobs does, but they sure know how to create hype by going the back way - letting power users and early adopters "find" their apps. Guess who really decides which applications and platforms to use. The management? Nah...It's the system administrators.
Back in the day I was told to install a server from RIM so we could test out their hand sets. The day before sending it back I did a half-assed install just to prove it wasn't working. Didn't even want to check if it was possible Think RIM got a foot inside even though the importer were best buddies with the CEO and were part of the board? Nah...
Same thing applies here. MS knows it, and they won't **** on their user base. That's the same reasoning as not releasing their lawyers on "pirates". In other words - not run by the lawyers, but actually keeping them on a pretty tight leash.

Can devs work on preventing Celebrite UFED from violating privacy rights?

Just learned about the Celebrite UFED device currently available and in use by law enforcement (Link listed below). The UFED connects to mobile devices (indeed the Epic) and extracts every bit of data - to include previously deleted data potentially. This means all text messages, passwords, browser history, banking information, Google accounts, Facebook, etc. will all be rendered as part of the public record once judicial precedings commence. And even if charges are dismissed and the record is sealed, the integrity of the extracted information has been compromised and cannot be viewed as safe.
So I am asking if any dev's might be able to restore the fourth amendment constitutional protection against illegal search and seizure through the magic that ya'll do. For those who might be thinking they have nothing to hide and this would only benefit criminals, keep in mind that silently giving up civil liberties is a slippery slope. It starts off small, but (conspiracy kook sounding, I know) turns into opening up your nightstands for government types before bed. While I support the need for efforts by law enforcement in assuring the safety of our communities, I DO NOT support trickery and loopholes around the judicial process like the overtly invasive Celebrite UFED technology. I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this issue and if anyone with more knowledge in this are than I will step forward to secure our privacy and peace of mind.
cellebrite-com (forum won't allow me to post actual link)

I don't have a problem with this at all. If your stupid enough to do criminal stuff on your phone then you should go to jail. In actuality the US Supreme Court ruled recently that a cell phone is not constitutionally protected via 4th Ammendment. I think someone was arrested and they looked at his messages and found someone else who conspired to commit a felony. They charged him as well....
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3

Eh if you are caught doing something stupid then yes it MIGHT be necessary. But if its abuse then we have a right to defend yourself.
I'm pretty sure that there are certain criteria for it to work. It was in a thread somewhere. When I find it ill edit my post.
I think they were:
Must have a sd card inserted
Usb debug must be on
*something else I can't remember*
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

mmcgrat6 said:
Just learned about the Celebrite UFED device currently available and in use by law enforcement (Link listed below). The UFED connects to mobile devices (indeed the Epic) and extracts every bit of data - to include previously deleted data potentially. This means all text messages, passwords, browser history, banking information, Google accounts, Facebook, etc. will all be rendered as part of the public record once judicial precedings commence. And even if charges are dismissed and the record is sealed, the integrity of the extracted information has been compromised and cannot be viewed as safe.
So I am asking if any dev's might be able to restore the fourth amendment constitutional protection against illegal search and seizure through the magic that ya'll do. For those who might be thinking they have nothing to hide and this would only benefit criminals, keep in mind that silently giving up civil liberties is a slippery slope. It starts off small, but (conspiracy kook sounding, I know) turns into opening up your nightstands for government types before bed. While I support the need for efforts by law enforcement in assuring the safety of our communities, I DO NOT support trickery and loopholes around the judicial process like the overtly invasive Celebrite UFED technology. I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this issue and if anyone with more knowledge in this are than I will step forward to secure our privacy and peace of mind.
cellebrite-com (forum won't allow me to post actual link)
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Firstly, "be part of the public record" is not true. Only evidence pertaining to the case at hand may be submitted in to some form of record. So while yes, there will be a person(s) scouring all of the information, anything irrelevant (ie, not usable as evidence) would not be saved.
With this in mind, how would this constitute illegal search and seizure? You said so yourself "once judicial precedings begin"; such as a search warrant. So there is no breaking of the constitution there...and furthermore, once a search warrant is obtained, anything of yours that falls within the scope of the warrant is subject to search. So, to me, this is no different than if a cop read through every page of your diary looking for evidence. Because the unneccessary stuff will not be saved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

I am actually a law student, and this is illegal as long as you have a reasonable expectation of privacy (ie: YOU HAVE A PASSWORD) As long as you have a lock password it is illegal. Also, I have used cellebrites and they don't usually work anyway unless the phone is unlocked, so just keep your phone locked and if an officer asks you to unlock it, tell them to get a search warrant.

Wow aren't we ignorant. If it were that simple. How many people who were on death row have they let out because years later they find evidence that clears them. How many times hagve you heard of someone spending years in jail for rape to find DNA evidence clears them?
Unfortunately people in law enforcement are human beings flawed like the rest of us. If they can read the data who is to say they can't put incrimintating data on just because they don't like you?
I think it is easy to make blanket ignorant statements like this totally ignoring reality unless you are the one who is wronged.
Top Nurse said:
I don't have a problem with this at all. If your stupid enough to do criminal stuff on your phone then you should go to jail. In actuality the US Supreme Court ruled recently that a cell phone is not constitutionally protected via 4th Ammendment. I think someone was arrested and they looked at his messages and found someone else who conspired to commit a felony. They charged him as well....
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3
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Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

My concern is not for criminals to be allowed to freely conduct their activities under protection from prosecution. And while cellphones have been ruled as not protected under the fourth amendment, handsets like the Epic interconnect to provide access into far more areas for personal data than a simple cellphone. in fact the courts have ruled that email, for example, IS protected by the fourth amendment. What this device represents is a "work around" into individual privacy.
More and more we as a nation have been relinquishing our privacy rights in support of protecting our safety and security. However, it's been almost a decade of this trend and the nation has been evolving ever since toward everybody knowing your business. We might not have anything to hide, but we must also have legal protections for cases which involve potentially corrupt individuals from abusing the systems which allow them use of this invasive device.

I agree, police officers are surprisingly uninformed of Supreme court law. They usually don't care until it affects them, like when the exclusionary rule told them "Hey, wanna **** these defendants over? Well now their free, good job asshole."
Plus there are crooked cops that could use your passwords they find on your phone (even if you aren't doing anything wrong on it) and sign in to your Facebook and IM to find out more info about you. Is this okay? If so then go to a communist state where you aren't allowed to have secrets from the government.

excellent point, squshy 7. But "part of the public record" was not meant to be taken as the only reason for concern. While protocol calls for the data to be disposed of if nothing happens, we don't live in a perfect world. Evidence is lost. Incorrect limbs get amputated. People forget to do things or believe something important has already been done. And corruption among those of authority can and does happen. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So why let it happen needlessly in the first place?

mmcgrat6 said:
excellent point, squshy 7. But "part of the public record" was not meant to be taken as the only reason for concern. While protocol calls for the data to be disposed of if nothing happens, we don't live in a perfect world. Evidence is lost. Incorrect limbs get amputated. People forget to do things or believe something important has already been done. And corruption among those of authority can and does happen. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So why let it happen needlessly in the first place?
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Honestly dude, I've come to terms with the fact that mistrusting everyone in charge for fear of corruption is unfounded. Its actually much simpler than that.
Most humans are idiots.
Hence our messed up world. Not evil. Just stupidity.
Once one realizes that, it becomes alot easier. Because then you'll see that there is truly nothing you can do about it.
Lol. Im a misanthrope to the max
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

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Benjamin Franklin said:
Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.
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And that sums up MY opinion on this matter, but really, just look at my previous post and just keep your phone locked.

Censura_Umbra said:
I agree, police officers are surprisingly uninformed of Supreme court law. They usually don't care until it affects them, like when the exclusionary rule told them "Hey, wanna **** these defendants over? Well now their free, good job asshole."
Plus there are crooked cops that could use your passwords they find on your phone (even if you aren't doing anything wrong on it) and sign in to your Facebook and IM to find out more info about you. Is this okay? If so then go to a communist state where you aren't allowed to have secrets from the government.
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Why are you putting illegal stuff on your Facebook? What's there that can't be retrieved via birth records, driver's licenses, and marriage certificates...all of which are already in the government's records?
A crooked cop can plant any kind of evidence they want to incriminate you. It doesn't have to be on your phone. Heck it's probably not even worth their effort.
Any decent lawyer can get that stuff tossed anyway. If anything, it's harder than ever to successfully prosecute someone, not easier.
And really, as resource strapped as police departments are, they're not looking at you at all unless you ARE doing something illegal. Don't use the word "wrong" because it's not necessarily the same as "illegal."

Censura_Umbra said:
And that sums up MY opinion on this matter, but really, just look at my previous post and just keep your phone locked.
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You confuse freedom with anarchy. You're free to do what you want. You're also free to accept any and all consequences.

Censura_Umbra said:
I am actually a law student, and this is illegal as long as you have a reasonable expectation of privacy (ie: YOU HAVE A PASSWORD) As long as you have a lock password it is illegal. Also, I have used cellebrites and they don't usually work anyway unless the phone is unlocked, so just keep your phone locked and if an officer asks you to unlock it, tell them to get a search warrant.
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This. The cellebrites we use at Sprint at least, require the device to be unlocked(unless the Android has USB debugging on already, in which case I believe it can bypass the lock). If a blackberry has a password on it, it pops up on the machine requesting you enter the password on the machine.
So technically it can "bypass" your lock, but only if you enter the lock on the cellebrite machine.

LOL the cellbrites carriers have obviously were only meant to transfer contacts, pictures, etc. By error, Ive been to extract this information even when the phone was locked. Im sure they can program a machine to bypass all of that.

Uh and yes EVERY american must give up some freedom for security. This is nothing new. As long as you dont do some stupid ****, then you have nothing to worry about. Anyway, most of us on here have rooted phones. You know rooted phones exposes your passwords, etc right?

socos25 said:
Wow aren't we ignorant. If it were that simple. How many people who were on death row have they let out because years later they find evidence that clears them. How many times hagve you heard of someone spending years in jail for rape to find DNA evidence clears them?
Unfortunately people in law enforcement are human beings flawed like the rest of us. If they can read the data who is to say they can't put incrimintating data on just because they don't like you?
I think it is easy to make blanket ignorant statements like this totally ignoring reality unless you are the one who is wronged.
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Not ignorant by any shape of the imagination, as I have experience on both sides of the law. As someone said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the other ones that have been tried." Nothing is perfect and innocent people may be jailed or executed. Not saying that is good, but that it works most of the time...which is why I live in the USA.
If you have lived as long as I have then you would know that things go up and down (conservative & liberal) in this country. Now we are in a conservative swing and we do need some balance as we move away from the days of coddling criminals and granting more rights to them than the rest of us get.
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3

I'd like to say this..
1) your locks are pointless if you have clockworkmod installed...as they can just backup your rom lol..as cwm has no password protect option...
2) You can always restore data...1 wipe i never enough..I had my sd cards erased a few times...I was able to recover 100% the contents..to do a proper wipe you gotta wipe 7 times using 0's method and alternating 1's and 0's..to note..this isnt going to make the data unrecoverable..just more expensive to recover...the point in wiping data is not that its unrecoverable but wipe it enough so that it isnt worth it financially for the other side to recover it.

b15love said:
Uh and yes EVERY american must give up some freedom for security. This is nothing new.
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actually, this IS new, and those that believe the above quoted 'line' deserve neither freedom or security.
For example, is it ok for a police officer who does a traffic stop for improper lane change (for example) to snatch out the cellebrite device and ask you to hand over your cell phone ? NO.. without a search warrant or probable cause (at the very least) he has no right or authority to dig around in your phone.
If you were just involved in an accident, then i could see the possibility of scanning your phone to determine if you were texting while driving, thus contributing to the accident. Officers in Michigan could be using this device for routine traffic stops according to this article
Basically, we've ventured off topic anyway.. the question that remains (regardless of the 'conspiracy theory' sounding debate) is:
is it possible for the devs to prevent this device from scanning our phones ?

microsoft is flexing some muscle to cripple the competition.

We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.

z33dev33l said:
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
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Well, you know what they say...fruit is better for us than pastries/dairy. (Mango vs. Ice Cream Sandwich/Eclair)

good for them, I don't think it's good for us

I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.

*wipes tear* i love you Microsoft! always have done and will be loyal forever

The only group to blame for this is Google, releasing something that completely infringes on a bunch of other peoples patents. While it may be a douchey move to do this to the very manufactures you're partnered with, I can't blame MS.

ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?

FiyaFleye said:
Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
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You are probably right

I'm kinda put off by some of those patents . I mean really .. you can patent that ?
Although they do own the patents so "Pay up Sucka's ."
This will not be good for user's in the end either way .
My .02

ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties

nicksti said:
But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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That's my sentiments and what I've been about all along. Yet when I say Apple has the rights to receive compensation on their infringed patents, I'm an Apple fanboy. Then when I side with MS's side of the patent infringement, I'm a MS fanboy. The only time I'm not harassed badly for seeming like a fanboy is when I say something favorable about Google. If I say something favorable about any other company...even if the favored words are intermixed with multiple companies, I'm a fanboy. The friggin rationality of the web is beyond mind twisting. People will stomp and storm over the least little thing.

nicksti said:
If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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I agree with this. MS definitely has the money to go after Google itself if they wanted to, but going after OEM's could be a way to secure a footing for WP7 as it's up to them to push WP7. If OEM's don't support WP7, it's screwed. Also, going after Google would conflict with MS & it's anti-monopoly issues.

Kinda old. Its been a known fact that Microsoft makes more money from Android than WP7.
Sad, sick, but true. The patent system is ridiculous.

The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.

drkfngthdragnlrd said:
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
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I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....

Google should have done their homework tbh, handing over these issues to the hardware manufacturers is pretty weak.
Not that I'm agreeing with these patents, some of them are very vaguely defined.

You guys really don't know how vague some of the patents are. Hell I can pick any software and find some copied code. Do some deeper investigation yourself. Doesn't matter how big or small a company is, doesn't matter to me if its Google, Apple, or some unknown Guy down the street.
The patent system needs a major over haul. Make a new OS or program and make millions, and I guarantee you that you will be slapped with patent infringement. Its sick.

truffle1234 said:
I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
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Click to collapse
You do know oracle had to drop more than 90% of their case.

It isn't vague. When you patent something, you have to be thorough about how it all works. These "news" articles just give the "Title" to the patent. The full patent has this huge legal description of what exactly is patented. I know this because as a kid I was going through the patent process, till my lawyer found out what I was trying to patent already existed. BTW, as for try to make an OS. Well the problem is all OS's are basically the same, very similar UI's save (WP7). they all have some form of taskbar/start menu/window based applications. The whole point why Windows is called Windows. The point of inovation is to make something new, not copy what's there & try to make it different. That's basically borderline plagerism, granted that's to do with writing, but it's the same thing.
See this;
1) No. 6,909,910 from 2005 for "managing changes to a contact database."
2) No. 7,644,376, issued in 2010 to cover an API that lets mobile apps learn about state changes in the device.
3) No. 5,664,133 from 1997 covering "context sensitive menu system/menu behavior," known more generally as a graphical user interface that lets users "quickly and easily select/execute the desired computer resource."
4) No. 6,578,054 from 2003 covering online and offline transmission of data through methods that "eliminate data transmission and allow multiple copies of data to be synchronized via incremental changes."
5) No. 6,370,566 from 2002, with the self-explanatory title, "Generating Meeting Requests and Group Scheduling From a Mobile Device."

All of that us understandable but the patent system us royally ****ed up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/technology/27patent.html
http://www.macgasm.net/2009/12/30/the-patent-system-is-broken-and-nokia-vs-apple-continues/
There are patents that defy the laws of phsyics, patents that are beyond belief. ****s stupid. Its actually hurting innovation from the little guys.

Microsoft finally getting instore marketing right

Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).

...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....

hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.

Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....

FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.

Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...

@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health

FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
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Click to collapse
LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.

N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.

...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"

FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.

FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.

FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.

Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...

You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:

vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.

Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.

Question Does TikTok (the app) work for you?

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why I can't log in (via the app) on my Google Pixel 6 Pro.
My account is set up by going through my Twitter account. I've tried deleting and recreating a new account using an email, phone number, Facebook, Google, etc., but constantly run into dead ends (such as getting the message that says "Invalid Parameters"when) trying to log in on the app on my Pixel 6 Pro.
Other messages I receive when attempting to do so, read "Unable To Log In" or "Too many attempts. Try again later."
The strange thing is I'm successfully able to get into TikTok on the Chrome Browser (on my phone) as well as other devices I own that have the TikTok app itself.

works fine for me. Are you using any form of adblocker?

This is a really, really silly response, but I honestly don't know. It's possible that I activated, checked on/off, or toggled something on/off in the past. Where should I look? Any specific directions will really help me.

Nevermind! I FINALLY figured it out. I had to switch off the Private DNS option in my phone's settings. Woo-hoo!

Thanks for coming back and reporting the solution. It might help many others in future

yeah working for me and im using adaway.

Eduardo1974 said:
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why I can't log in (via the app) on my Google Pixel 6 Pro.
My account is set up by going through my Twitter account. I've tried deleting and recreating a new account using an email, phone number, Facebook, Google, etc., but constantly run into dead ends (such as getting the message that says "Invalid Parameters"when) trying to log in on the app on my Pixel 6 Pro.
Other messages I receive when attempting to do so, read "Unable To Log In" or "Too many attempts. Try again later."
The strange thing is I'm successfully able to get into TikTok on the Chrome Browser (on my phone) as well as other devices I own that have the TikTok app itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recommend not using TikTok for any reason. Using it turns you into livestock. It's a disturbing app which, even since it was Musical.ly, has existed for the main purpose of monetizing underage girls.
Even if that's not what you follow, that's the base of the platform. The platform is mainly used by minors, and all of the trends are created by minors. The app serves to sexualize young girls, it rewards them for promiscuity. It devalues their beauty because they show it all for their anonymous, likely adult followers. It's basically a big anonymous grooming movement.
If you ignore this truth of the platform, it's still just taking your EXTREMELY valuable attention, and wasting it, to give time to collect and sell your valuable user data. It's highly likely that data is being illegally accessed.
Shorts are bad for your mind. They are bad for your attention. They teach you to have ADHD. We should only absorb media in long format. TikTok is making ignorant experts in every arena. It is not good for anyone. The fact that the app is psychological terrorism combined with the fact that they are collecting unprecedented amounts of user data should be more than enough to convince any adult to avoid the platform like the plague. Or you can wonder why you can't stare at nothing for hours on end. Whatever you want to look at on TikTok, read about it. If it's girls, give up on that. Lose that which distracts you.
Edit, Call me a conspiracy theorist: musical.ly was dying before Chinese corporations connected to the CCP pumped billions into it. I'm 90% sure that TikTok is a psyop (psychological operation) to spread "tics". It's pretty blatant, all of this. It serves to weaken our men, divide our people, and enable the eventual invasion of the US mainland. For this reason, I will never give into the general weakness I sense within society. I will continue the tradition of manhood at all cost. I'm 24 btw, I was 12 when Instagram was created. I'm not just an old doubter. Social media is detrimental to everything if it's designed to cause addiction.
Edit 2: I understand this in absolutely no way answers what you asked, and I completely pontificated my opinions. For this I apologize. I feel that this information is essential to save our society before it collapses. Some evil dictators want power at all cost, they will sacrifice billions of humans. I will preserve the natural order at all cost, no weak dictator shall dictate over us. Abundance is our right, nature provides infinite abundance. Scarcity is artificial. Do not be controlled by anything but your own mind and heart.

id recommend you burn your phone and go live in a forest dude

Doesnt work for me, but thats because I dont use it because I am not a teenage girl.

Mine randomly turns to big ui, like the res changes to 1080p and I have issues closing the app.
Tried everything, not sure if it's kernel related.

kevp75 said:
Doesnt work for me, but thats because I dont use it because I am not a teenage girl.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cleary from that comment you haven't a clue

Josh.haveman1 said:
I recommend not using TikTok for any reason. Using it turns you into livestock. It's a disturbing app which, even since it was Musical.ly, has existed for the main purpose of monetizing underage girls.
Even if that's not what you follow, that's the base of the platform. The platform is mainly used by minors, and all of the trends are created by minors. The app serves to sexualize young girls, it rewards them for promiscuity. It devalues their beauty because they show it all for their anonymous, likely adult followers. It's basically a big anonymous grooming movement.
If you ignore this truth of the platform, it's still just taking your EXTREMELY valuable attention, and wasting it, to give time to collect and sell your valuable user data. It's highly likely that data is being illegally accessed.
Shorts are bad for your mind. They are bad for your attention. They teach you to have ADHD. We should only absorb media in long format. TikTok is making ignorant experts in every arena. It is not good for anyone. The fact that the app is psychological terrorism combined with the fact that they are collecting unprecedented amounts of user data should be more than enough to convince any adult to avoid the platform like the plague. Or you can wonder why you can't stare at nothing for hours on end. Whatever you want to look at on TikTok, read about it. If it's girls, give up on that. Lose that which distracts you.
Edit, Call me a conspiracy theorist: musical.ly was dying before Chinese corporations connected to the CCP pumped billions into it. I'm 90% sure that TikTok is a psyop (psychological operation) to spread "tics". It's pretty blatant, all of this. It serves to weaken our men, divide our people, and enable the eventual invasion of the US mainland. For this reason, I will never give into the general weakness I sense within society. I will continue the tradition of manhood at all cost. I'm 24 btw, I was 12 when Instagram was created. I'm not just an old doubter. Social media is detrimental to everything if it's designed to cause addiction.
Edit 2: I understand this in absolutely no way answers what you asked, and I completely pontificated my opinions. For this I apologize. I feel that this information is essential to save our society before it collapses. Some evil dictators want power at all cost, they will sacrifice billions of humans. I will preserve the natural order at all cost, no weak dictator shall dictate over us. Abundance is our right, nature provides infinite abundance. Scarcity is artificial. Do not be controlled by anything but your own mind and heart.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this mf really gave us a paragraph about tiktok LMAO (no pun intended, love the effort my amn)

AntoTheMenLover1337 said:
this mf really gave us a paragraph about tiktok LMAO (no pun intended, love the effort my amn)
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Click to collapse
Amn? That's out near Baldur's Gate right?

skimminstones said:
Cleary from that comment you haven't a clue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearly...