Just learned about the Celebrite UFED device currently available and in use by law enforcement (Link listed below). The UFED connects to mobile devices (indeed the Epic) and extracts every bit of data - to include previously deleted data potentially. This means all text messages, passwords, browser history, banking information, Google accounts, Facebook, etc. will all be rendered as part of the public record once judicial precedings commence. And even if charges are dismissed and the record is sealed, the integrity of the extracted information has been compromised and cannot be viewed as safe.
So I am asking if any dev's might be able to restore the fourth amendment constitutional protection against illegal search and seizure through the magic that ya'll do. For those who might be thinking they have nothing to hide and this would only benefit criminals, keep in mind that silently giving up civil liberties is a slippery slope. It starts off small, but (conspiracy kook sounding, I know) turns into opening up your nightstands for government types before bed. While I support the need for efforts by law enforcement in assuring the safety of our communities, I DO NOT support trickery and loopholes around the judicial process like the overtly invasive Celebrite UFED technology. I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this issue and if anyone with more knowledge in this are than I will step forward to secure our privacy and peace of mind.
cellebrite-com (forum won't allow me to post actual link)
I don't have a problem with this at all. If your stupid enough to do criminal stuff on your phone then you should go to jail. In actuality the US Supreme Court ruled recently that a cell phone is not constitutionally protected via 4th Ammendment. I think someone was arrested and they looked at his messages and found someone else who conspired to commit a felony. They charged him as well....
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3
Eh if you are caught doing something stupid then yes it MIGHT be necessary. But if its abuse then we have a right to defend yourself.
I'm pretty sure that there are certain criteria for it to work. It was in a thread somewhere. When I find it ill edit my post.
I think they were:
Must have a sd card inserted
Usb debug must be on
*something else I can't remember*
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
mmcgrat6 said:
Just learned about the Celebrite UFED device currently available and in use by law enforcement (Link listed below). The UFED connects to mobile devices (indeed the Epic) and extracts every bit of data - to include previously deleted data potentially. This means all text messages, passwords, browser history, banking information, Google accounts, Facebook, etc. will all be rendered as part of the public record once judicial precedings commence. And even if charges are dismissed and the record is sealed, the integrity of the extracted information has been compromised and cannot be viewed as safe.
So I am asking if any dev's might be able to restore the fourth amendment constitutional protection against illegal search and seizure through the magic that ya'll do. For those who might be thinking they have nothing to hide and this would only benefit criminals, keep in mind that silently giving up civil liberties is a slippery slope. It starts off small, but (conspiracy kook sounding, I know) turns into opening up your nightstands for government types before bed. While I support the need for efforts by law enforcement in assuring the safety of our communities, I DO NOT support trickery and loopholes around the judicial process like the overtly invasive Celebrite UFED technology. I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this issue and if anyone with more knowledge in this are than I will step forward to secure our privacy and peace of mind.
cellebrite-com (forum won't allow me to post actual link)
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Firstly, "be part of the public record" is not true. Only evidence pertaining to the case at hand may be submitted in to some form of record. So while yes, there will be a person(s) scouring all of the information, anything irrelevant (ie, not usable as evidence) would not be saved.
With this in mind, how would this constitute illegal search and seizure? You said so yourself "once judicial precedings begin"; such as a search warrant. So there is no breaking of the constitution there...and furthermore, once a search warrant is obtained, anything of yours that falls within the scope of the warrant is subject to search. So, to me, this is no different than if a cop read through every page of your diary looking for evidence. Because the unneccessary stuff will not be saved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
I am actually a law student, and this is illegal as long as you have a reasonable expectation of privacy (ie: YOU HAVE A PASSWORD) As long as you have a lock password it is illegal. Also, I have used cellebrites and they don't usually work anyway unless the phone is unlocked, so just keep your phone locked and if an officer asks you to unlock it, tell them to get a search warrant.
Wow aren't we ignorant. If it were that simple. How many people who were on death row have they let out because years later they find evidence that clears them. How many times hagve you heard of someone spending years in jail for rape to find DNA evidence clears them?
Unfortunately people in law enforcement are human beings flawed like the rest of us. If they can read the data who is to say they can't put incrimintating data on just because they don't like you?
I think it is easy to make blanket ignorant statements like this totally ignoring reality unless you are the one who is wronged.
Top Nurse said:
I don't have a problem with this at all. If your stupid enough to do criminal stuff on your phone then you should go to jail. In actuality the US Supreme Court ruled recently that a cell phone is not constitutionally protected via 4th Ammendment. I think someone was arrested and they looked at his messages and found someone else who conspired to commit a felony. They charged him as well....
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3
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Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
My concern is not for criminals to be allowed to freely conduct their activities under protection from prosecution. And while cellphones have been ruled as not protected under the fourth amendment, handsets like the Epic interconnect to provide access into far more areas for personal data than a simple cellphone. in fact the courts have ruled that email, for example, IS protected by the fourth amendment. What this device represents is a "work around" into individual privacy.
More and more we as a nation have been relinquishing our privacy rights in support of protecting our safety and security. However, it's been almost a decade of this trend and the nation has been evolving ever since toward everybody knowing your business. We might not have anything to hide, but we must also have legal protections for cases which involve potentially corrupt individuals from abusing the systems which allow them use of this invasive device.
I agree, police officers are surprisingly uninformed of Supreme court law. They usually don't care until it affects them, like when the exclusionary rule told them "Hey, wanna **** these defendants over? Well now their free, good job asshole."
Plus there are crooked cops that could use your passwords they find on your phone (even if you aren't doing anything wrong on it) and sign in to your Facebook and IM to find out more info about you. Is this okay? If so then go to a communist state where you aren't allowed to have secrets from the government.
excellent point, squshy 7. But "part of the public record" was not meant to be taken as the only reason for concern. While protocol calls for the data to be disposed of if nothing happens, we don't live in a perfect world. Evidence is lost. Incorrect limbs get amputated. People forget to do things or believe something important has already been done. And corruption among those of authority can and does happen. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So why let it happen needlessly in the first place?
mmcgrat6 said:
excellent point, squshy 7. But "part of the public record" was not meant to be taken as the only reason for concern. While protocol calls for the data to be disposed of if nothing happens, we don't live in a perfect world. Evidence is lost. Incorrect limbs get amputated. People forget to do things or believe something important has already been done. And corruption among those of authority can and does happen. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So why let it happen needlessly in the first place?
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Honestly dude, I've come to terms with the fact that mistrusting everyone in charge for fear of corruption is unfounded. Its actually much simpler than that.
Most humans are idiots.
Hence our messed up world. Not evil. Just stupidity.
Once one realizes that, it becomes alot easier. Because then you'll see that there is truly nothing you can do about it.
Lol. Im a misanthrope to the max
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Deleted 10 char
Benjamin Franklin said:
Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.
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And that sums up MY opinion on this matter, but really, just look at my previous post and just keep your phone locked.
Censura_Umbra said:
I agree, police officers are surprisingly uninformed of Supreme court law. They usually don't care until it affects them, like when the exclusionary rule told them "Hey, wanna **** these defendants over? Well now their free, good job asshole."
Plus there are crooked cops that could use your passwords they find on your phone (even if you aren't doing anything wrong on it) and sign in to your Facebook and IM to find out more info about you. Is this okay? If so then go to a communist state where you aren't allowed to have secrets from the government.
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Why are you putting illegal stuff on your Facebook? What's there that can't be retrieved via birth records, driver's licenses, and marriage certificates...all of which are already in the government's records?
A crooked cop can plant any kind of evidence they want to incriminate you. It doesn't have to be on your phone. Heck it's probably not even worth their effort.
Any decent lawyer can get that stuff tossed anyway. If anything, it's harder than ever to successfully prosecute someone, not easier.
And really, as resource strapped as police departments are, they're not looking at you at all unless you ARE doing something illegal. Don't use the word "wrong" because it's not necessarily the same as "illegal."
Censura_Umbra said:
And that sums up MY opinion on this matter, but really, just look at my previous post and just keep your phone locked.
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You confuse freedom with anarchy. You're free to do what you want. You're also free to accept any and all consequences.
Censura_Umbra said:
I am actually a law student, and this is illegal as long as you have a reasonable expectation of privacy (ie: YOU HAVE A PASSWORD) As long as you have a lock password it is illegal. Also, I have used cellebrites and they don't usually work anyway unless the phone is unlocked, so just keep your phone locked and if an officer asks you to unlock it, tell them to get a search warrant.
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This. The cellebrites we use at Sprint at least, require the device to be unlocked(unless the Android has USB debugging on already, in which case I believe it can bypass the lock). If a blackberry has a password on it, it pops up on the machine requesting you enter the password on the machine.
So technically it can "bypass" your lock, but only if you enter the lock on the cellebrite machine.
LOL the cellbrites carriers have obviously were only meant to transfer contacts, pictures, etc. By error, Ive been to extract this information even when the phone was locked. Im sure they can program a machine to bypass all of that.
Uh and yes EVERY american must give up some freedom for security. This is nothing new. As long as you dont do some stupid ****, then you have nothing to worry about. Anyway, most of us on here have rooted phones. You know rooted phones exposes your passwords, etc right?
socos25 said:
Wow aren't we ignorant. If it were that simple. How many people who were on death row have they let out because years later they find evidence that clears them. How many times hagve you heard of someone spending years in jail for rape to find DNA evidence clears them?
Unfortunately people in law enforcement are human beings flawed like the rest of us. If they can read the data who is to say they can't put incrimintating data on just because they don't like you?
I think it is easy to make blanket ignorant statements like this totally ignoring reality unless you are the one who is wronged.
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Not ignorant by any shape of the imagination, as I have experience on both sides of the law. As someone said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the other ones that have been tried." Nothing is perfect and innocent people may be jailed or executed. Not saying that is good, but that it works most of the time...which is why I live in the USA.
If you have lived as long as I have then you would know that things go up and down (conservative & liberal) in this country. Now we are in a conservative swing and we do need some balance as we move away from the days of coddling criminals and granting more rights to them than the rest of us get.
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3
I'd like to say this..
1) your locks are pointless if you have clockworkmod installed...as they can just backup your rom lol..as cwm has no password protect option...
2) You can always restore data...1 wipe i never enough..I had my sd cards erased a few times...I was able to recover 100% the contents..to do a proper wipe you gotta wipe 7 times using 0's method and alternating 1's and 0's..to note..this isnt going to make the data unrecoverable..just more expensive to recover...the point in wiping data is not that its unrecoverable but wipe it enough so that it isnt worth it financially for the other side to recover it.
b15love said:
Uh and yes EVERY american must give up some freedom for security. This is nothing new.
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actually, this IS new, and those that believe the above quoted 'line' deserve neither freedom or security.
For example, is it ok for a police officer who does a traffic stop for improper lane change (for example) to snatch out the cellebrite device and ask you to hand over your cell phone ? NO.. without a search warrant or probable cause (at the very least) he has no right or authority to dig around in your phone.
If you were just involved in an accident, then i could see the possibility of scanning your phone to determine if you were texting while driving, thus contributing to the accident. Officers in Michigan could be using this device for routine traffic stops according to this article
Basically, we've ventured off topic anyway.. the question that remains (regardless of the 'conspiracy theory' sounding debate) is:
is it possible for the devs to prevent this device from scanning our phones ?
Related
SPB Clone is a fine bit of software. It makes a full ghost copy of your BA that you can reinstall after a hard reset - all the registry settings, installed software. etc.
The demo version is fully working but after installing via a clone you get a nag screen that continually pops up to remind you to buy the software.
Because I was so impressed with SPB Clone, I wrote to SPB to ask them if they could provide me with a single user licence at a less painful price, since the PDA I was cloning was actually my phone, and I'm not a big company with many PDAs. They told me that, sadly, SPB Clone was only available on an enterprise licence but then they told me how to remove the nag screen....
1. Open the folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer.
2. Tap and Hold and select View All Files.
3. Select bootupdt.exe and select Cut from context menu.
4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap and hold on the empty space within folder view. Select Paste from context menu.
5. Soft reset.
6. Remove bootupdt.exe from the root folder.
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
@tintoy: Generosity? I consider this being spam. Nobody wants new posts about "I now know how to reboot!" or "My how-to: Plugging USB cable in". I would accept those kinda posts if he'd just tell about product X, which is cheaper than Y but has same or more features like A, B, C. Only hassle you have to solve is to remove [filename] from autostart.
Chatty said:
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
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Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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I'm a firm believer in freedom of information.
SPB gave me this information because I am a single user.
I have provided this information to other single users.
If an unscrupulous company wishes to use unlicensed software, possibly risking prosecution, that's their remit, not mine.
madcapmagician said:
Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
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Ok, your're starting to get insulting. That's why I'll answer the last time to this thread.
madcapmagician said:
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
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This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat. Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum. And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
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Farcical. No comment.
madcapmagician said:
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
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Here you stepped over the line. If you ain't got no further arguments (if there has been at least one already) you start to insult people. That will make you look respectable, indeed. Although English is not my mother tongue I do speak more than one language. How many do you speak? (Not that I'm really interested.)
Chatty said:
Ok, your're starting to get insulting.
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Your original post was both rude and insulting, hence my reply.
This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat.
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How so? Do you not bring your manners to a forum? You are, in effect, saying that because you cannot see your fellow forumers face-to-face you feel you do not have to be polite to them.....and you then get upset when they are impolite back to you.
Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum.
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Why do you assume I didn't? Again, you are being insulting. I scoured the web to find the answer, like most other noobs would do. From the way you wrote, I got the impression you are very IT-literate - well, I am not and there are many others like me. My post is for them.
And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
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Then I suggest you re-read your first post: in your head, when you typed it, it may have sounded witty and polite and to-the-point; that is not how it came across. If you felt my description was at fault, you should have said so, rather than making rude, tangential comments.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful
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Just to reiterate the point.
Here you stepped over the line.
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Agreed, although in my head, when I typed it, it was quid pro quo.
I will publicly apologise here and now for being rude.
Please understand that there is nothing berating in this post - I am merely trying to articulate myself without you being able to physically hear my voice.
madcapmagician said:
Hey guys, I know a way that you can get the hard work of dozens of developers for free. Heck they gave it to me, and so it is implied that they want me to share it with the entire internet. Aren't I morally and ethically bankrupt?
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Yes, you are.
Chatty said:
There is this tire change sticker in my car that is driving me batty
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Hmmm, interesting
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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Chatty said:
Generosity? Huh...spam. X, Y, uh A, B, C, Marco, polo
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Exsqueezeme
madcapmagician said:
Everyone marvel at my use of polysyllabic word play. I am the master of the keyboard. Chatty, my swing thing is bigger than yours.
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madcapmagician again said:
I am a firm believer in freedom of unscrupulousness. It was granted to us in the 18th ammendment to the Constitution. SPB gave me the information because I am single minded and they have no desire to make money. They are actually just out to provide a community service.
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Wow, excellent points, all of them!
Chatty Cathy said:
Actually my swing thing is bigger. And I speak multiple languages, just not very well. A donde esta la casa de pepe?
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Stunning!
madcapmagician said:
Why are you rude to me just because I was rude to you? Don't you understand the consequences of disturbing the molecular dismobilization of the antisymmetric wave function? Egad man. Let me cut loose some more words from my Microsoft Word thesaurus...prostrate, genuflecting, forumers (huh?), tangential, exoskeletal, plebiscite. Take that!
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Do you guys know how tired the rest of us are of this kind of non-productive grade school banter? I am waiting for the "your momma" insults to start any minute. Can someone please delete this thread.
The original post in this thread was a useful piece of information on how to remove the nag screen on a piece of software.
It was not a "How-to" on rebooting or plugging in a USB cable, and i am sure that anyone who wants to use the SPB Clone would be grateful for this information.
The fact that you either didnt understand what the post was about or didnt care doesnt mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread. Trading insults back and forth is the biggest spam anyone could expect to see in a forum, especially this one, which provides so much good information to those of us who use these devices.
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
cw6447 said:
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
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I agree with you on the ethics of "stealing" software, my main complaint here was the instant flaming that madcapmagician received after posting, that is not what this community is about. he was not posting a "how-to" on the process of rebooting, he was relaying the information given to him as he received it, i think that the information can be used by those who are ok with "stealing" software and those who disagree can just disregard the information. If the mods decide that the information shouldnt be here they have the power to remove it.
Forgive me for carrying on with this ridiculous and pointless conversation but is it not in fact illegal to unlock contract mobile phones? Would the cellular providers be happy for 1000's of people to remove their branding and software from devices which they have sold? If the software company had not wanted to help the individual then they would not have told him to start with. I am sure that nobody is so special that a software company would whisper information into his ear that they didn't want to be made common knowledge.
This is a tech support forum, it has helped me as well as many, many other people. If you want to start talking about wrong, immoral, illegal or any other description you may have then start looking at what other people are doing.
I appreciate this forum, and it's members. For crying out loud, stop arguing and get on with the job in hand.
Zylo, I agree with you in one regard. The post is perfectly legit insomuch as it is helpful and technically related. But only for people without a conscience. Bret, you are symptomatic of this new generation of kids with no personal accountability in life. To pretend that you can guess that a software company doesn't mind you giving away their software for free is ludicrous. madcap probably got ahold of some sales guy who thought it would be nice to do him a favor. Do you think the owners, investors or developers would have told him to feel free to post it on forums around the internet? Why not take that info and sell it for a profit on eBay? Or better yet why not just sell the software as your own? If they were giving you a free copy then they wouldn't mind you doing whatever you want with it. Right? You see, you keep blurring the lines of common decency to the point where eventually anything goes. You won't understand until someday you actually become a responsible citizen, start your own business, and put your hard-earned money and time out on the line. I bet when the leeches and thieves come after your product you will have a whole different attitude. The "right thing" to do in this case is so easy and obvious. I fear for a world where people can't make that distinction.
Sorry if what i said came across as a flaming. It was not intended as such. I'm just aware that softweare companies have many employees, from designers to developers to marketing people to managers. Of all these people the ones who seeme to have the most alturistitc (read non commercially-minded) approach always seem to be the developers. They are typically just concerned with writing good software and makng it work. If you asked a developer for a free copy of his/her software for 'testing' they'd probally give it to you without complaint! If, however, you asked them if they'd like their contract to end at the end of its term becuase you were going to make the software they wrote completly unprofitable by telling everyone how to get it for free they might be slightly less generous!
Your points have been taken on board but for the record, I work for a small, local mobile phone dealer. How much business do you think we lose from people unlocking phones, and therefore not returning to us?
I'm not saying that is right or wrong but what I am saying is that it is illegal. It is stealing from the provider and taking profits away from independant dealers. Also, how are you to know that my own business did not fail due to non-payers? You obviously open your mouth before engaging your brain. I could not recover the debts owed to my company and it resulted in the business closing. Is that not also theft?
If you want to target anyone go for the real criminals who sell ripped off software and DVD's on the Sunday markets. They are the real problem, not one guy who has made a very small post who has admitted to have lttle understanding of what he has done. I'm sure you have now all alienated him so he will never return to this site again.
Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.
Yeah. Can we consider this conversation over?
Please don't be offended by my posts @madcapmagician, I was just making a point, not trying to demonise you! I would imagine there is even a fairly decent discsussion that could be had about what consitutes ripping off software and what consitutes fair use...
I found my original e-mail and SPB’s reply:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerzy Bulowski
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:01 pm
To: [email protected]
Subject: Clone
Dear Sir or Madam,
I recently downloaded your demo of Clone and have to say that, already, it has served me well after my phone required a hard reset the other day.
I was so impressed that I decided to purchase a copy but was absolutely horrified to see the price of $199. Whilst I can appreciate that Clone is suited to large businesses with many corporate PDAs, I am a single user - the PDA in question is actually my HTC Blue Angel mobile phone - and I was wondering whether you could sell me a single-licence version for a price more similar to what you charge for Pocket Plus?
If this is not possible could you tell me how long the annoying reminder screen will continue to pop up on my phone?
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jerzy Bulowski
Hello Jerzy,
Spb Clone is enterprise product and there's not any "single user" licenses.
How to remove the nag screen in your case:
1. Open folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer. 2. Tap and Hold and select View All files. 3. Select bootupd.exe and select Cut from context menu. 4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap-n-hold on the empty space within folder view. Select "Paste" from context menu. 5. Soft reset. 6. Remove bootupd.exe from the root folder.
Best regards,
Alexander Shalin
Customer Support Team
Spb Software House
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.spbsoftwarehouse.com
Phone: +7 812 324 49 44
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Bret, perhaps I should point out that you can download SPB Clone for free from their website, as a demo version. Corporate customers, if they liked it, would then buy a licensed copy for $199.00 – I have “stolen” nothing.
Chris - As far as the ethics of posting said information in the public domain are concerned, my conscience is clear. This information is for single users, like myself. If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine.
Tintoy – I’m not offended. It was Chatty’s immediate, condescending, demeaning post that riled me. Zylograth said what I should have, instead of replying as I did:
The fact that you either didn’t understand what the post was about or didn’t care doesn’t mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread.
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And that’s that!
AFAIK I think it's still open to debate whether we discuss cracking. I'm happy to talk about cracking, but not cracks.
Odeean makes a good point that cracking and reversing is part of the education of programming; if you're a commercial developer, or would be one, it's worth knowing weaknesses and pitfalls.
People shouldn't come on here and say "wantttt - crack for thai-g" etc. That's just silly and damn lazy. If you don't know how to get warez, you should be using a Motorola, not even a Nokia. But you should be rewarding programmers, or you should understand when there aren't programmers left to program because they've all gone broke. (And I'm not just talking about cash.. we don't all program for the $$)
But if you want to learn how to crack thai-g, search, ask nicely, or learn and tell. But don't distribute cracks (at least publically). There are other boards for that, and we have enough trouble keeping this board clean enough now-a-days
V
Take it like a man!
Madcap, my almost 3-year old daughter tries to make equally bad logic when I have caught her sneaking a cookie before supper. If you were in court you would be your own worst enemy. The email from spb said "How to remove the nag screen in YOUR case". Not "in your case and EVERY other person you can broadcast it to". Show me where he added, "And please feel free to share this with other single users". ONCE AGAIN, if they did not expressly permit you to give this to other people then it is just plain wrong! No, not illegal...it's the spb CSR's ignorant fault for giving it out to you. Let's say you are standing behind a guy in line at the QuickTrip. You witness the cashier ring up his order, but forget to ring up his Snickers bar. When the customer makes the cashier aware of the error, the cashier says,"Oh that's ok, just go ahead and take it." Does that then give you the right to grab a Snickers bar and put it in your pocket without paying for it? If one person got a freebie then everyone should get it, right? How long do you think QuickTrip will survive giving away it's products? It really isn't any different. Software is intangible property that should be treated as tangible. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should. It is just like all of the thieves who thought downloading music they did not pay for was OK. It wasn't...still isn't...never will be.
As for your equally weak argument of, "If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Let's take the same QuickTrip. While you are at the counter paying for your snacks (except for the Snickers bar tucked into your pocket), you oversee another employee opening the safe behind the counter. Because of your excellent eyesight and brilliant mind, you see and remember the combination. When you get home you go out to the SafesAndVaultsDevelopers.com forums and post about the dummy at QuickTrip opening up the safe right in front of everyone. You also post the combination to the safe because "if an unscrupulous person wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Great logic. I wish I could send you to time-out like I can my daughter.
Try this. Reply back to spb. Tell that same Customer Service Rep that you are posting this hack on all of the popular PDA sites on the internet. And copy the support group at spb, too. After they respond to you, post their letter back here. I will be waiting to see the response.
Now I know you would never have posted the above spb info on a site where you thought "unscrupulous" people could visit and get hold of it. I mean, what jerk in their right mind would do that to a company and possibly expose them to real dollar losses? So since you know everyone here is trustworthy, why don't you go ahead and post your email account password, your xda forum password, and the PIN to your ATM account on here. Throw in your momma's phone number for grins. We won't do anything bad with it.
Am I going off on you? Yes. When someone tries to make a clearly black and white argument grey, and aggressively attempts to defend that indefensible position over and again, they deserve to be called out. Take it like a man.
With the recent legal decision making it legal for users to "jailbreak" their iPhones (still at the risk of losing warranty, I assume), wouldn't that also carry over to ALL cell phones? Wouldn't it then be illegal for Sprint (or Verizon, Att, etc...) to develop code that would block or remove Root? I would assume, that just as in most parts of the legal system, once precedence is set, it should carry over all carriers.
It does carry over that you're allowed to root your phone... but nothing in the ruling said the carrier can't put code in to prevent it. They just can't sue you for cracking their protection.
Ok, Makes sense, but lends another question...
If a law is passed allowing something, and someone takes measures to prevent people from doing what has already been deemed legal, they can be sued for infringing on that person's rights. Wouldn't that, in effect, be the same thing as a carrier writing code to block Root? I understand if they put in a "Safety" feature, so people can't just accidently Root, but anything beyond, would technically be a violation of our rights as the owners of the phones....
And before it gets said, I am not saying we should all run out and Sue Sprint or our individual carriers, for "Breaking Root" on our phones. I am just putting a thought out there for conversations sake. Sometimes getting other peoples opinions on a subject helps put things in perspective.
thenewguy821 said:
And before it gets said, I am not saying we should all run out and Sue Sprint or our individual carriers, for "Breaking Root" on our phones. I am just putting a thought out there for conversations sake. Sometimes getting other peoples opinions on a subject helps put things in perspective.
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Click to collapse
The ruling was that jailbreaking / rooting a phone does not fall under bypassing encryption through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. That's all. They didn't say that companies can't protect their IP.
Realistically you can expect that cellular providers will start entering provisions in their contracts that make it a violation to modify your phone's software (just as it's, for example, illegal to modify pollution controls on a motor vehicle).
phobos512 said:
The ruling was that jailbreaking / rooting a phone does not fall under bypassing encryption through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. That's all. They didn't say that companies can't protect their IP.
Realistically you can expect that cellular providers will start entering provisions in their contracts that make it a violation to modify your phone's software (just as it's, for example, illegal to modify pollution controls on a motor vehicle).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you are saying, but your examples don't apply. By modifying your vehicles pollution controls, you are finding a way around a law, therefore making it illegal. By adding provisions in their contracts, the company would be making their own laws, stricter than the ones the courts have already allowed.
A better example, In Chicago, it was recently decided (At the Supreme Court level) that the 2nd amendment applies to the entire country, not just the government. Any laws made by the states/cities trying to block the 2nd amendment rights, would be unconstitutional, and could not be enforced.
By the Courts deciding that Jailbreaking/Rooting the phones is Legal, any action by the carriers to block the unlocking of the phones, would be a violation of that court decision.
My 2 cents worth:
They can choose to block it if they want to, but they cannot penalize you for seeing that your device is rooted or jailbroken.
That's just my take on it.
Veritas06 said:
My 2 cents worth:
They can choose to block it if they want to, but they cannot penalize you for seeing that your device is rooted or jailbroken.
That's just my take on it.
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Click to collapse
They cannot sue you for violating DMCA since it is now an exception.
They can still:
- void your warranty
- add an verse in contract that you can be penalized for modifying to gain root
- do pretty much anything they want beyond sue you for violating DMCA until there is a lawsuit or court ruling to decide otherwise.
I think you have to remember that rooting is basically bypassing encryption the encryption. There is no where that says that Sprint/AT&T etc cant change there encryption or fix holes in it. By changing the encryption and fixing holes this often "breaks root" however you are not forced to update so i don't think you can say they are taking away your "right" to root.
Even if they put out a stealth patch that fixed the current root methods and put your phone back at stock and unrooted. They still havent infringed on your right to root your phone. You can always re root once a new method is found. While it can make it difficult for you or take away your root access they haven't actually taken away your right to root... they just arent making it easy for you which is an entirely different thing.
It would be a PR nightmare and would possibly lose some customers, but they really don't have any legal reason not to add a section in the contract to say that in order to run a phone on their network, you must you a phone with software APPROVED by them. By rooting you would lose approval.
It wouldn't be that difficult from a their perspective to allow them to cut service or even penalize you for doing so.
thenewguy821 said:
Ok, Makes sense, but lends another question...
If a law is passed allowing something, and someone takes measures to prevent people from doing what has already been deemed legal, they can be sued for infringing on that person's rights. Wouldn't that, in effect, be the same thing as a carrier writing code to block Root?
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Click to collapse
No. They can write their software to be whatever they want. They are under no obligation to make it easy for you to hack. The law just makes it lawful for you to hack it. It does not make it unlawful for the companies to make it difficult or impossible. The law allows you to try, it does not gaurantee you success.
Someday they'll have an easy method to remotely determine if a phone is rooted and instantly void all our warranties, saving the company money.
If we want to run their software updates then we agree to lose root, since they were intended to run on non-rooted devices.
Posted via XDA Android app from Evo
thenewguy821 said:
I understand what you are saying, but your examples don't apply. By modifying your vehicles pollution controls, you are finding a way around a law, therefore making it illegal. By adding provisions in their contracts, the company would be making their own laws, stricter than the ones the courts have already allowed.
A better example, In Chicago, it was recently decided (At the Supreme Court level) that the 2nd amendment applies to the entire country, not just the government. Any laws made by the states/cities trying to block the 2nd amendment rights, would be unconstitutional, and could not be enforced.
By the Courts deciding that Jailbreaking/Rooting the phones is Legal, any action by the carriers to block the unlocking of the phones, would be a violation of that court decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're misunderstanding the concept of something being legal and something being your right...
No law was made saying that companies have to allow you to bypass their protections. The only thing that happened was that you can now not be prosecuted for bypassing protections to install 3rd party applications or remove bundled software.
I thought of an analogy... If you wanted to post on a forum like this one, you are allowed to. If the owner of the forum doesn't want you here, they can do all kinds of things to stop you. Ban your account, ban your IP, etc. If you go to a new computer at some wifi hotspot you can create a new account and sign up. That is not illegal. It's also not illegal for them to ban you again. It's not your RIGHT to go on the site but it is still LEGAL for you to do so.
ViViDboarder said:
You're misunderstanding the concept of something being legal and something being your right...
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I am not trying to say We have a right to do this... What I meant, was by the courts decision to allow jailbreaking/rooting of phones, we now have that right. I don't think that is a misunderstanding at all.
BTW, I hope the rest of your post wasn't to imply that I should be banned from posting here, just because I started this thread. I just thought it might be an interesting topic, and to get different views on it. I could have just made another thread about Froyo coming out next week... lol
So, it sounds like not too many people here understand the recent decision. First, it was, in no way, a new law or a change to an existing law. The Library of Congress (who oversees the DMCA) issued a ruling, pretty much on a whim. That sharply distinguishes it from a court decision (that would set any kind of legal precedent).
What this means for us:
According to the Library of Congress, it is not a violation of the manufacturer's (copy)rights for users to bypass protections (rooting/jailbreaking) for the purpose of installing legally obtained software. Hence, rooting your phone to install something you legally obtained, like an app that requires root (SetCPU, Root Explorer, etc.) or a completely open-sourced ROM (CyanogenMod) is perfectly acceptable. This means that HTC cannot sue you over it AND they may not automatically brick rooted phones (Disclaimer: the process of rooting may brick your phone due to the nature of the process, I am not telling you that rooting is 100% risk-free. I am only saying that HTC may not brick your phone for that specific reason. This applies a little bit more directly to Apple and their absurd anti-jailbreaking practices). HTC can, and will, void your warranty if they discover that you rooted your phone. Likewise, Sprint may not refuse to provide network coverage to people who root for the purpose of installing legally obtained software. However, they can, and likely will, refuse to provide any warranty-style services for your phone (i.e. that $7 per month Total Equipment Protection Plan).
However, rooting your phone to install illegally obtained software is still illegal. This applies to the vast majority of ROMs available that reuse Sprint or HTC code without the express permission of those companies. CyanogenMod uses the same open-source code for Android that Google freely provides to anyone who wants it (like HTC). The CM team then works to use the open-source code provided by Google and the manufacturer (HTC's kernel is open-source and publicly released (eventually) according to the open-licensing terms that Google forces them to accept) and make that into a working ROM for your phone. Most other ROM developers take the closed-source code provided by the manufacturer (e.g. the code from the recent OTA) and manipulate or modify it to become a new ROM for your phone.
Although, while that practice is, technically, illegal, it is also very similar to a foul/penalty in sports -- it's only against the rules if you get caught. And, in this case, manufacturers have not cry foul because the developer community that is, basically, stealing their code is also driving their profit (and they are too smart to bite the hand that feeds them, unlike Apple).
So, I hope that this helps people better understand the decision and the fact that it really does not change anything in terms of the actual risks of rooting -- it only removes the extraordinarily unlikely risk of HTC suing you just for rooting. But, given their ongoing legal battles with Apple, I'd say that HTC is not worried about you or me right now anyway.
the decision doesn't specifically make root/jailbreaking legal or illegal, it just ruled that it's not a violation of the DMCA. the swat team won't be kicking down any htc execs doors just because you jumped the gun and lost root by applying an OTA
So in all reality, which ROMs aren't illegal software? Example: CM?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
thenewguy821 said:
I am not trying to say We have a right to do this... What I meant, was by the courts decision to allow jailbreaking/rooting of phones, we now have that right. I don't think that is a misunderstanding at all.
BTW, I hope the rest of your post wasn't to imply that I should be banned from posting here, just because I started this thread. I just thought it might be an interesting topic, and to get different views on it. I could have just made another thread about Froyo coming out next week... lol
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Haha, no. I wasn't implying that. Sorry. It was just the only example I could think of at the time.
Cayniarb said:
I am only saying that HTC may not brick your phone for that specific reason.
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How would this apply to the Moto Droid X? Not 100% sure.......but isn't that what Moto is doing?......bricking your phone if you try to root? Will they have to change that?
bluebeast213 said:
How would this apply to the Moto Droid X? Not 100% sure.......but isn't that what Moto is doing?......bricking your phone if you try to root? Will they have to change that?
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Click to collapse
No. Motorola has put together some clever programing that makes the process of attempting to root the Droid X result in bricking your phone (but only sort of -- you can reinstall the stock, unrooted ROM and be all good, without root). They aren't bricking phones that are successfully rooted, they are just making it impossible (so far...) to root it in the first place.
Again, the process of rooting your phone may cause it to not work/get bricked. That is very different than being able to root, then the manufacturer bricking it after the fact (like, say, a jailbroken iPhone that you accidentally connect to iTunes -- nice, expensive paperweight).
So, no, Motorola will not have to change that for any legal reason. They may change it though because the developer community that largely drives the android platform will not be too happy with them, and that could affect their bottom line.
http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!
crzchn said:
http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!
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Click to collapse
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
lol.. hopefully they use it for the greater good.... thats all i would have to say, there is a lot of sickos out there.
Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.
crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha ha I agree!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.
the worst part about ciq and other non government agencies collecting data is that they are used by the fbi and cia to share info... which is illegal through direct channels. also, a third party collecting our info and delivering it to the carriers is totally unacceptable. theres tons of threads in the OG epic forums... as thats where konane first found and decided to kill CIQ. i honestly wonder if all the anti-ciq stuff really started there... then the tech pundit sites reported what was in these forums as usual... then the mainstream noticed... idunno. as far as plots to take over the world/bring down systems... keep it analog like good music. all the major telecoms have an open door policy w the feds... so its not like they would need CIQ for normal investigations... and they have a grace period to get warrants after they look at the info... patriot acts sealed the fate of privacy and liberty in this country. all because of a now dead boogeyman living in a cave... good job america... something about a jackboot on a human head... forever...
/rant
nivron said:
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the FBI. You don't think while they are combing through all that data while investigating CIQ they won't "stumble" upon certain things? Or mirror those servers? Or realize how useful to them CIQ is and say they've found nothing wrong with what CIQ or the carriers are doing?
Do you think for a moment the FBI isn't already using CIQ as a resource to catch 'terrorists'? Like how the airlines use full body scanners and the TSA to catch 'terrorists' with the same high (lmao!) efficiency.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/12/12/fbi-says-carrieriq-may-be-used-in-law-enforcement-proceedings/
Not saying you think any of that, just making a point. I'm pretty sure most of us are on the same page with this crap.
I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.
sfhub said:
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.
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Click to collapse
Actually the code may be embedded deeper than we thought. Not just at the system or kernel level, but further. I'm no microprocessor engineer but doesn't almost every chip have instruction sets or at least some sort of code written into it? Because when CIQ itself says one of the 3 methods of loading it on the device is at the hardware level - that's what it sounds like to me. Literally the chips are programed with CIQ in the code.
Remove that.
then we would have to disable it in drivers
xlGmanlx said:
I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.
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Click to collapse
Oh man, here we go with the "I don't have anything to hide so why should I care" section of this conversation.
I'm not embarrassed about having sex but I sure as hell am not going to let you watch. It's called privacy. Has nothing to do with having things to hide, it has to do with the basic human right to have our own space, time, thoughts, gadgets, property, voice, opinion, and so on.
There are no saints either. Everybody has lied, cheated, stolen, done something wrong that would get them in trouble. Sometimes it was a mistake or even an accident. Does that mean black helicopters should have descended on you to whisk you away to a 5x5 cell without trial? No, and why without trial? Because at this point they don't need a warrant and as per the Patriot Act you don't even have to be charged with something to be held for, well, forever. So no trial is the next logical step.
Just a little interesting fact, the US Patriot Act is actually an acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"
just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
KCRic said:
snip
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Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......
I never doubted the gov would trace. Glad its gone.
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete
xlGmanlx said:
just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......
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Click to collapse
You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.
pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us ....
Pete
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Protect us from what?
Sent from Tapatalk
Agreed, and I believe this was a huge oversight on their part. The point i was trying to make is there are plenty of other spaces where the privacy is willing given away with little notification and facebook is one of them. Hell they have been told they are to comply with any audits for the next 20 years.
phatmanxxl said:
You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.
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Click to collapse
pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh, that argument just makes me sick. Those agencies are trying to protect their livelihood, which comes from protecting us, but it's not the same thing. Police detectives get promotions partly based on their case closure rates, that means they have self interest in closing cases that might not be quite airtight. Because who doesn't want a promotion, with the prestige and money that comes with it. The CIA was certain iraq had WMD's, and was trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger, because blockbuster findings like that lead to more funding, which means more turf for those section directors. They aren't all bad obviously, on the contrary I'm certain most of them want to do the right thing. It's the few that don't because they care more about their career than anything else, or the guy that is trying to do the right thing but simply gets it wrong. Mistakes happen, data gets misread or incorrectly analyzed, and people suffer for it. I don't want to be that unlucky person, so I don't want that crap operating on my phone.
QUOTE- "OPEN is a targeted, effective solution to the problem of foreign, rogue websites stealing from American artists and innovators," Issa said in a statement. "Today's Internet blackout has underscored the flawed approach taken by SOPA and PIPA to the real problem of intellectual property infringement. OPEN is a smarter way to protect taxpayers' rights while protecting the Internet."
http://www.keepthewebopen.com/
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...duced_in_the_us_house_of_representatives.html
Anyone who speaks legalese want to look this over and tell us if we need to fear this, or if this is a viable alternative to SOPA/PIPA??
Either way, we need to keep pressure on Congress to protect our 1st Amendment. Keep calling your State reps!!
Jesus Christ. Another one?
The music and movie industry has deeper pockets and more patience than we the people do. Eventually we will get tired of sending letters and signing petitions and these types of laws will get through. It's nice to know big business can buy...err, I mean help pass laws to deny us rights...err, I mean protect us from evil foreign enemies.
sopa means soup in spanish so ppl here make jokes like:
-a grandma says- "in my days sopa was a food" lol
Not agin, this is going to be annoying when they come up with another SOPA similar thing.
Sent from my NookColor using xda premium
Maybe we should start blacklisting/boycoting companies who urge to push these laws into reality don't you think so?
Riyal said:
Maybe we should start blacklisting/boycoting companies who urge to push these laws into reality don't you think so?
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Click to collapse
We can start by boycotting the RIAA, MPAA, CBS, Disney, CNet, among others...this is just a tiny percentage of the companies backing SOPA/PIPA/OPEN.
I haven't had the chance to read over the OPEN Act; what about it makes it a better alternative to SOPA and PIPA?
Actually this piece of legislation was the one they were looking to get passed. There is a movement for something called 'Thick Whois'. The premise is that the owner of any new (and eventually old) website would be required to provide a form of ID to register a website. There is likely to goals behind this - one is to implement a national sales tax and the other is that they will now be able to more effectively target individuals.
If you combine the premise of 'Thick Whois' with OPEN, they could effectively choke the revenue stream of any one they target. This is a dangerous piece of legislation!
I WISH we could have SOPA sometimes just to get rid of all the stupid pics people post here (which are clearly violating copyright laws).
It should be noted that while SOPA and PIPA were steadfastly backed by the entertainment industry giants like the MPAA and RIAA, those groups vehemently oppose OPEN as not being strong enough. (See the Wikipedia article on the Online Protection and Enforcement of Digital Trade Act, which actually seems to spell OPEDT Act...)
I still don't think it's a good idea to try to police the Internet at all (since almost any moderately effective effort is going to involve censorship), but at least OPEN is less draconian than its predecessors.
OPEN leaves too many doors open to further limiting legislation
clpo13 said:
It should be noted that while SOPA and PIPA were steadfastly backed by the entertainment industry giants like the MPAA and RIAA, those groups vehemently oppose OPEN as not being strong enough. (See the Wikipedia article on the Online Protection and Enforcement of Digital Trade Act, which actually seems to spell OPEDT Act...)
I still don't think it's a good idea to try to police the Internet at all (since almost any moderately effective effort is going to involve censorship), but at least OPEN is less draconian than its predecessors.
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In attempting to read it, and my ability to translate legal bs is limited, what I have "learned" is that it doesn't appear as intensive as SOPA/PIPA, but it seems to still leave the doors open for legislation later...and those O.P.E.N doors are what scare me. I do know that it is still backed by some of the big players from SOPA/PIPA, but they are complaining that it isn't tough enough. I am guessing they will take anything they can get though.
I have a real issue with my Constitutional rights getting changed or limited or revoked, just so some rich, fat cat, s.o.b working in Hollywood can further line his/her pockets
Getting tired of all these attempts to pass this mess entertainment industry is just about as bad as the Oil companies now, a politician in every pocket
But really time could be better spent on fixing over things in the nation that are far more in need
My opinion is that the entertainment industry needs to come up with SOMETHING that makes it worth going to the movies. The way I see it now, the bands that play the shows are actually working for their money instead of sitting there. The movie theaters need to come up with something that the average consumer can't afford or is too large. That would cut down on piracy. Thery're just lazy......
i want to know why the megaupload and filesonic are closed? if those sites are closed why xda is here? i love xda but just wonderig
spicagenmod said:
i want to know why the megaupload and filesonic are closed? if those sites are closed why xda is here? i love xda but just wonderig
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xda doesn't host any illegal downloads.
This is just my point of view. Music artistes and movie producers, actors etc should not be that concerned about piracy. For example, I watch a pirated movie online. After the movie, I realized that the acting of some actor is really good. Chances are, I world appreciate that actor more and appreciate his products more. Then, the actor has now one more fan and the probability of me catching one of his movies in the cinema would be higher as I would want to support him. Just my two cents
We fight against ACTA right now in Poland. I've never seen politicians lie so blatantly (I know, I was being naive) about things that you can check in one minute. I think they got some huge "gifts" for forcing ACTA on us because they never before stood so firmly against such opposition. In my opinion piracy is a business problem - you need to make people want to buy your staff even if they can pirate it for free any time - not prosecute them.
I wanted to go to cinema for Prometheus, The Hobbit and new Batman but right now I think I'm going to boycott them, I don't want to finance acts like ACTA/SOPA etc.
I don't know much about these acts, but all they made me do is hate our ****ed up government even more! Gah
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...t-sopa-was-bad-just-wait-until-you-meet-acta/
MORE BS!!
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why I can't log in (via the app) on my Google Pixel 6 Pro.
My account is set up by going through my Twitter account. I've tried deleting and recreating a new account using an email, phone number, Facebook, Google, etc., but constantly run into dead ends (such as getting the message that says "Invalid Parameters"when) trying to log in on the app on my Pixel 6 Pro.
Other messages I receive when attempting to do so, read "Unable To Log In" or "Too many attempts. Try again later."
The strange thing is I'm successfully able to get into TikTok on the Chrome Browser (on my phone) as well as other devices I own that have the TikTok app itself.
works fine for me. Are you using any form of adblocker?
This is a really, really silly response, but I honestly don't know. It's possible that I activated, checked on/off, or toggled something on/off in the past. Where should I look? Any specific directions will really help me.
Nevermind! I FINALLY figured it out. I had to switch off the Private DNS option in my phone's settings. Woo-hoo!
Thanks for coming back and reporting the solution. It might help many others in future
yeah working for me and im using adaway.
Eduardo1974 said:
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why I can't log in (via the app) on my Google Pixel 6 Pro.
My account is set up by going through my Twitter account. I've tried deleting and recreating a new account using an email, phone number, Facebook, Google, etc., but constantly run into dead ends (such as getting the message that says "Invalid Parameters"when) trying to log in on the app on my Pixel 6 Pro.
Other messages I receive when attempting to do so, read "Unable To Log In" or "Too many attempts. Try again later."
The strange thing is I'm successfully able to get into TikTok on the Chrome Browser (on my phone) as well as other devices I own that have the TikTok app itself.
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I recommend not using TikTok for any reason. Using it turns you into livestock. It's a disturbing app which, even since it was Musical.ly, has existed for the main purpose of monetizing underage girls.
Even if that's not what you follow, that's the base of the platform. The platform is mainly used by minors, and all of the trends are created by minors. The app serves to sexualize young girls, it rewards them for promiscuity. It devalues their beauty because they show it all for their anonymous, likely adult followers. It's basically a big anonymous grooming movement.
If you ignore this truth of the platform, it's still just taking your EXTREMELY valuable attention, and wasting it, to give time to collect and sell your valuable user data. It's highly likely that data is being illegally accessed.
Shorts are bad for your mind. They are bad for your attention. They teach you to have ADHD. We should only absorb media in long format. TikTok is making ignorant experts in every arena. It is not good for anyone. The fact that the app is psychological terrorism combined with the fact that they are collecting unprecedented amounts of user data should be more than enough to convince any adult to avoid the platform like the plague. Or you can wonder why you can't stare at nothing for hours on end. Whatever you want to look at on TikTok, read about it. If it's girls, give up on that. Lose that which distracts you.
Edit, Call me a conspiracy theorist: musical.ly was dying before Chinese corporations connected to the CCP pumped billions into it. I'm 90% sure that TikTok is a psyop (psychological operation) to spread "tics". It's pretty blatant, all of this. It serves to weaken our men, divide our people, and enable the eventual invasion of the US mainland. For this reason, I will never give into the general weakness I sense within society. I will continue the tradition of manhood at all cost. I'm 24 btw, I was 12 when Instagram was created. I'm not just an old doubter. Social media is detrimental to everything if it's designed to cause addiction.
Edit 2: I understand this in absolutely no way answers what you asked, and I completely pontificated my opinions. For this I apologize. I feel that this information is essential to save our society before it collapses. Some evil dictators want power at all cost, they will sacrifice billions of humans. I will preserve the natural order at all cost, no weak dictator shall dictate over us. Abundance is our right, nature provides infinite abundance. Scarcity is artificial. Do not be controlled by anything but your own mind and heart.
id recommend you burn your phone and go live in a forest dude
Doesnt work for me, but thats because I dont use it because I am not a teenage girl.
Mine randomly turns to big ui, like the res changes to 1080p and I have issues closing the app.
Tried everything, not sure if it's kernel related.
kevp75 said:
Doesnt work for me, but thats because I dont use it because I am not a teenage girl.
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Cleary from that comment you haven't a clue
Josh.haveman1 said:
I recommend not using TikTok for any reason. Using it turns you into livestock. It's a disturbing app which, even since it was Musical.ly, has existed for the main purpose of monetizing underage girls.
Even if that's not what you follow, that's the base of the platform. The platform is mainly used by minors, and all of the trends are created by minors. The app serves to sexualize young girls, it rewards them for promiscuity. It devalues their beauty because they show it all for their anonymous, likely adult followers. It's basically a big anonymous grooming movement.
If you ignore this truth of the platform, it's still just taking your EXTREMELY valuable attention, and wasting it, to give time to collect and sell your valuable user data. It's highly likely that data is being illegally accessed.
Shorts are bad for your mind. They are bad for your attention. They teach you to have ADHD. We should only absorb media in long format. TikTok is making ignorant experts in every arena. It is not good for anyone. The fact that the app is psychological terrorism combined with the fact that they are collecting unprecedented amounts of user data should be more than enough to convince any adult to avoid the platform like the plague. Or you can wonder why you can't stare at nothing for hours on end. Whatever you want to look at on TikTok, read about it. If it's girls, give up on that. Lose that which distracts you.
Edit, Call me a conspiracy theorist: musical.ly was dying before Chinese corporations connected to the CCP pumped billions into it. I'm 90% sure that TikTok is a psyop (psychological operation) to spread "tics". It's pretty blatant, all of this. It serves to weaken our men, divide our people, and enable the eventual invasion of the US mainland. For this reason, I will never give into the general weakness I sense within society. I will continue the tradition of manhood at all cost. I'm 24 btw, I was 12 when Instagram was created. I'm not just an old doubter. Social media is detrimental to everything if it's designed to cause addiction.
Edit 2: I understand this in absolutely no way answers what you asked, and I completely pontificated my opinions. For this I apologize. I feel that this information is essential to save our society before it collapses. Some evil dictators want power at all cost, they will sacrifice billions of humans. I will preserve the natural order at all cost, no weak dictator shall dictate over us. Abundance is our right, nature provides infinite abundance. Scarcity is artificial. Do not be controlled by anything but your own mind and heart.
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this mf really gave us a paragraph about tiktok LMAO (no pun intended, love the effort my amn)
AntoTheMenLover1337 said:
this mf really gave us a paragraph about tiktok LMAO (no pun intended, love the effort my amn)
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Amn? That's out near Baldur's Gate right?
skimminstones said:
Cleary from that comment you haven't a clue
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Clearly...