Related
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...
C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.
Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.
C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make some musical ones, to live up to your name!
Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.
No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform
havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money
Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.
Hello Everyone,
We have implemented in-application advertising in one of our company's latest applications and seem to have run across an "issue" in Pocket Internet Explorer. I wanted to see if anyone else has come across this and can help me confirm that I have correctly identified the issue.
The way that the advertising implementation works is that when a user clicks on an advertisment, the default web browser is launched as a new process and navigated to a URL. Often, that URL when then follow a chain of 1 or more redirections to eventually land on the actual advertisment page.
If Opera is the default browser, there never is any issue. With Opera, the browser follows the redirections and eventually lands on the target page.
With Internet Explorer however, some advertisments work and others do not. By not work, I mean the browser loads for a short while and then eventually displays a 404 File Not Found error. The address bar still displays the original URL. I believe that this occurs when a certain number of redirections are requested or perhaps it is a certain type of redirection. This was been tested on various models of Windows Mobile 6, 6.1, 6.5, and even 6.5.3 - all professional touch-screen models as this is what our application targets. It can be clearly seen in our application's advertisment statistics as well.
If anyone has any insight on this behavior it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Brian P. Hamachek
President & CEO
SynergeTech Solutions, Inc
Before you start bashing me for starting this thread. Note Ive Search And Haven't Seen This Come Up Yet.
Now As Much As I love Skyfire, Im not seeing a whole lot of support for it from WP7. Someone Please bring me up to par with whats going on?
Heres the Only Info Ive found on this and its not much http ://support.skyfire.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5513
Skyfire could actually function reasonbly well on WP7 (due to the rendering being done by Skyfire's servers) and would be allowed by Microsoft. It's just up to Skyfire on whether they want to make it or not.
Ok thanks. I guess ill have to wait and see.
I read something awhile ago where SkyFire said they couldn't make a SkyFire version for WP7 due to lack of Native Code. I'm sure they could write their own code instead of just borrowing Microsofts, but that is where they stand now.
TriAxisFL said:
I read something awhile ago where SkyFire said they couldn't make a SkyFire version for WP7 due to lack of Native Code. I'm sure they could write their own code instead of just borrowing Microsofts, but that is where they stand now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know Opera said that but I hadn't seen Skyfire.
I don't really see why they couldn't. They don't do any rendering on the device. They have servers that pull the web page on your behalf and transcode it into a format that's pre-rendered and easier on the device. I would think this would be pretty easy in XNA or maybe even silverlight. Now a browser that actually decodes and renders the page all on it's own, yea that will be much slower without native code. It's a good thing the built in browser doesn't suck.
They could probably get a working version of skyfire on a device but it wouldn't have multitasking ability like IE does so why would anyone want to use it? I think they will eventually have multiple browsers but I think it'll be after multitasking is fully unleashed.
RustyGrom said:
I know Opera said that but I hadn't seen Skyfire.
I don't really see why they couldn't. They don't do any rendering on the device. They have servers that pull the web page on your behalf and transcode it into a format that's pre-rendered and easier on the device. I would think this would be pretty easy in XNA or maybe even silverlight. Now a browser that actually decodes and renders the page all on it's own, yea that will be much slower without native code. It's a good thing the built in browser doesn't suck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol haven't seen it.
Are you sure?
Lack of Opera Mini is another let down.
Do you know the source?
doministry said:
Lol haven't seen it.
Are you sure?
Lack of Opera Mini is another let down.
Do you know the source?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure of what?
Source of what? I didn't say anything that requires attribution...
i thought they were allowing for any third party browsers on wp7
deadwrong03 said:
i thought they were allowing for any third party browsers on wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they are. However, third parties are limited to using managed code (Silverlight and XNA) which would make writing a browser implausible if not impossible. However, with browsers that perform the actual page rendering on a remote server and basically send a capture of the page back to the phone to display, they should be able to make one just fine. Creating an HTML and JavaScript engine in C#, particularly with the limitations that WP7 has on top of that, would be out of the question.
RustyGrom said:
Sure of what?
Source of what? I didn't say anything that requires attribution...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh man, I was asking for the source of the Opera saying thy won't be able to make OperaMini for WP7!!
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
MS listens to their customers DDDD
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
I don't feel the need for any of those.
Internet Explorer is superb and the office applications are better than any i've used on other platforms.
doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never.
------
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of putting out a quality product from the get-go was to eliminate the need for all of this excess garbage. I replaced that crap on Android because the default stuff was garbage. This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Also third party browsers can very well created but no one has put forth the time to build a new rendering engine solely for WP7.
ratchetjaw said:
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
The OP is right.
Even if "IE9 is the best" (and there is no such thing) people love options. I am having a hard time giving up Android fully because there is no real cross platform chat option in WP7. No whatsapp. No Skype. These programs have millions of users. The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7. I used that all the time on my HTC Touch WinMo phone.
The NoDo update is so trivial in my mind. The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Then I will be happy....er.
nicksti said:
The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more APIs... word around is MIX 2011 will introduce devs to more WP APIs (hopefully sockets is one of them)
and multi tasking is the mango update coming fall 2011 (septemberish?)
nicksti said:
The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
emigrating said:
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh okay my bad. I don't know all of that detailed stuff lol
Well WP7 has only one browser and few skins. Rendering is identical with all the good and bad consequences.
I am not asking you guys to need other options but it is sick that it's the only platform which still has no options. I like IE very much but I miss Opera Mini server rendering for fast browsing in worse coverage area. And I have few pages IE misses big time. No flash etc.
As for the Office, other platforms have DocsToGo which kills Office with one finger.
And now Softmaker will make Office for Android...
The Word implementation on WP7 is my huge disappointment. Almost featureless app.
It's the first time for 4 years I have to use PC to make basic editing like font style changing or inserting a tablet.
The same with email. The MS email client is so nice but at the same time is a pain. Not able to delete quoted message? Bummer. And very very often I don't see the pictures loaded or even worse, attachements don't show up so Ihave to open my email in the browser.
z33dev33l said:
This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It sounds like a person who likes to have a choice, especially compared to other platforms. And have had it previously.
WP7 is very far from perfectly functional device. We don't live in a camp where is only one truth for all. Accept the diversity.
emigrating said:
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Blade0rz said:
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That isn't a restriction, its an API that hasn't been implemented yet. There is no policy that limits people to Http Request and there is no switch they can flick to quickly enable it, outside of giving people access to the native APIs.
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
PG2G said:
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
Read this:
http://wmpoweruser.com/surfy-alternate-ie-shell-for-wp7-having-a-hard-time-getting-to-market/
This was just about the new broswer UI..
nicksti said:
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Li'Messenger was removed a day or two after release. No official confirmation as to why, but I'm guessing because it accessed the Live servers directly thru unsupported APIs. Rumors have it they are bringing out a new version adhering to the Live EULA though.
Messenger by Miyowa had an update just a couple days ago which made it a lot more stable. It's still a very basic app though and I definitely wouldn't suggest you run out and get a new WP7 device because of it.
TBH though, I don't think Messenger in a larger capacity will work properly on WP7 until we get a native client (apparently not going to happen) or the OS allows apps to multitask (H2 '11 - so Dec 31st ). Even with live tile or toast notifications it's too cumbersome to use for anything but quick messages due to load/login times etc.
the key to hacking this phone, as ive noticed, isnt getting a new os. ive paid attention and i think i know what to do. we need a new internet browser. if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality. what we need to do is make an html parser in java that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps). i think we should focus on getting this done.
Its a good idea but we have no way of uploading a new browser to the device.
X-15D9W8491 said:
the key to hacking this phone, as ive noticed, isnt getting a new os. ive paid attention and i think i know what to do. we need a new internet browser. if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality. what we need to do is make an html parser in java that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps). i think we should focus on getting this done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your post makes no sense.
First because that's not the key for hacking
Second cause java applications can't be invoked from javascript.
it does make sense @johnkussack
is does make sense. you can invoke a java app through js. quit criticizing me just because you dont know what youre talking about. and besides, what i meant to say (if this makes it easier to understand) is that we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser and a download is set off in javascript that bypasses anything written into the browser by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser and just making a new one and not being lazy. you of all people should know this makes sense because you programmed and app onto the kin! besides, the whole thing about hacking is to be optimistic or you never get it done and youre impeding development with stupid posts like your last. get a grip and post something important instead of that trash next time!
thats the point
WEM97 said:
Its a good idea but we have no way of uploading a new browser to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly my point. we could just create a new app like john did only we make it work like john obviously failed to do.
X-15D9W8491 said:
exactly my point. we could just create a new app like john did only we make it work like john obviously failed to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Forgotten~~~~~~~~~~~~
X-15D9W8491 said:
nonsense stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, you'r messing it all
Second, to run a java application you would need to have a java virtual machine (which kin has not), or interpretation for java applets (which kin has not).
Third, i do know what i talk about, cause i code in Java & Javascript.
X-15D9W8491 said:
is that we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser and a download is set off in javascript that bypasses anything written into the browser by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser and just making a new one and not being lazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here one could stop reading. Also you can call Kitt to try to hack it, but it may not answer.
So, do your work before saying that other have failed where you have no success either.
And if we could do that magic stuff, last thing we should do is care about a new browser, when you could just install opera for win ce. So all the topic is going nowhere.
johnkussack said:
First of all, you'r messing it all
Second, to run a java application you would need to have a java virtual machine (which kin has not), or interpretation for java applets (which kin has not).
Third, i do know what i talk about, cause i code in Java & Javascript.
Here one could stop reading. Also you can call Kitt to try to hack it, but it may not answer.
So, do your work before saying that other have failed where you have no success either.
And if we could do that magic stuff, last thing we should do is care about a new browser, when you could just install opera for win ce. So all the topic is going nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first, i havent had any success yet because those were plans. i havent tried this yet.
second, if putting on opera could help, why didnt you do it, "genius"?
if this thread is going nowhere then do me a favor and stop posting on it!
piss off
soninja8 said:
You sound like a smart-ass. You think its so simple that you decide to make fun of John. Without John we wouldnt have done anything by now so you should just shut it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that post was an a and b conversation between me and john so c your way out, dumbass. and you should shut it because you havent really helped at all, john has gotten me nowhere because i started from the beginning before i was part of this, and i need absolutely no input from you.
X-15D9W8491 said:
second, if putting on opera could help, why didnt you do it, "genius"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because we don't know how to do that yet.
I don't own this device, but a friend does. What happens if you download an exe or cab from the browser?
xboxfanj said:
I don't own this device, but a friend does. What happens if you download an exe or cab from the browser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It tells you the file type is not supported. Basically, you can't download something to the Kin that it isn't designed to handle.
X-15D9W8491 said:
that post was an a and b conversation between me and john so c your way out, dumbass. and you should shut it because you havent really helped at all, john has gotten me nowhere because i started from the beginning before i was part of this, and i need absolutely no input from you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
~~~~~Forgotten~~~~~
I am not taking sides here but you guys both have points. X has a really good idea though so at least try. show proof it dosent work then i will agree with you. Its a good idea but we dont have the means of getting into the KIN.
there comes a time
Code:
the key to hacking this phone,[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] as ive noticed,[/SIZE][/COLOR] isnt getting a new os.
This is a solid point. We should not examine the possibilities of a new operating system until we are able to work with the current one.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] ive paid attention and i think i know what to do.[/SIZE][/COLOR] we need a new internet [B]browser.[/B] if you think about it, the browser is the problem because of its zero functionality.
Maybe so. Though the current OS has many shortcommings of, you could definitely argue that none are as confining as the browser
Code:
what we need to do is make an html parser in java
I am not sure what you mean by this. My initial impression is that coding an HTML parser from the ground up in Java is far out of the scope of this project. Perhaps you will explain it's purpose in a later part of your post.
Code:
that is invoked in javascript (dezgrz thx for finding out about the javascript apps).
I guess what you mean by this is to use the current browser's javascript interpreter to invoke the HTML parser. There are a few severe hurdles you'd have to overcome to do this.
First of all and from what I understand, the Kin's built-in browser is IE 6 for Mobile. Web developers and users alike agree that IE6, regrardless of it's environment is a very broken web browser. Despite this, it is still a full-featured web browser, at least by Microsoft's standards. So for the purpose of security, Microsoft has probably constructed the browser in such a way that code run in it will be heavily isolated from the rest of the OS. I know that exploits for IE6 are a dime a dozen but even most of those require more access to the device than we have. Our situation is compounded by the fact that, even as far as other mobile versions of IE6 go, the Kin's browser is badly crippled.
Second of all, assuming you could somehow invoke the Java code through JS, the Java code would still have to be interpreted and run using a Java interpreter which the phone lacks. Java is an interpreted language. What that means is that in the most basic sense, a Java application is comprised of a bunch of text files containing programmer code. When you 'run' a java application, what you are really doing is running a special program (called a Java INTERPRETER, what we've been talking about) that takes that programmer code and turns it into computer code that is capable of being executed. The interpreter is the part that the Kin lacks. Without it, the text files of programmer code that are the java application just look like ordinary text files to the Kin.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]i think we should focus on getting this done.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
...and unfortunately we've come to the end of the post. I have only talked about some of the preliminary issues with your project roadmap but IMHO they'd be pretty fatal to it's success.
Let me know if you'd like me to explain anything else to you. In the meanwhile, let's wait and see what more directed people like JK come up with.
Oh thank goodness, another post. Perhaps this one will explain some of the discontinuities that arose in the first post.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]is does make sense.[/SIZE][/COLOR] you can invoke a java app through js.
I am not aware of any way to do so, especially on as crippled a browser as the kin one. I've already kind of addressed this in the previous post albeit indirectly.
Code:
[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]quit criticizing me just because you dont know what youre talking about. and besides, what i meant to say (if this makes it easier to understand) is that[/SIZE][/COLOR]
I've decided to minify all the psychosocial turmoil content in his posts in order to make what I am referring to more clear.
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we code a java app onto the phone that automatically connects to the browser
This portion confused me for a bit as in the first post you talked about a Java HTML parser howerver now it seems to have changed to something that simply interfaces the current browser. Maybe this would be more within the scope of the project but you'd still have to get through all the aforementioned hurdles. Even so I'm not really sure what purpose it would serve.
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and a download is set off in javascript that
Oh ok, here you are explaining how the Java code gets to the browser. You use javascript injection to make the browser download the Java application.
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bypasses anything written into the browser
Now, this would be a real trick. Accomplishing this would be equivalent to acquiring a U-Boat by fishing in the toilet.
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by editing the permissions, etc by editing the browser
Another primary problem about your train of thought is that you seemingly assume that javascript is capable of doing debug-level computing tasks such as significantly modifying a compiled binary and perform priveleged filesystem operations. Stuff like this would be a pain in the neck to do even on a desktop computer with suited programming languages.
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and just making a new one [COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]and not being lazy. [/SIZE][/COLOR]
Javascript is a language designed for the web, not general purpose and certainly not for creating another web browser from scratch. JS, like Java is an interpreted language except the interpreter is included in the web browser. I am not sure coding a web browser within a web browser would produce very desireable results, esp. with such limited processing power as is available on Kin hardware.
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[COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"]you of all people should know this makes sense because [/SIZE][/COLOR]you programmed and app onto the kin![COLOR="Silver"][SIZE="1"] besides, the whole thing about hacking is to be optimistic or you never get it done and youre impeding development with stupid posts like your last. get a grip and post something important instead of that trash next time![/SIZE][/COLOR]
hm. hm.
In conclusion, have a nice day.
In fact,iirc the Kin doesnt even have Javascript but JScript. Microsoft implementation, compatible with javascript itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript
The funny commands which could expose part of the system doesnt work, of course.
That's just weird
johnkussack said:
In fact,iirc the Kin doesnt even have Javascript but JScript. Microsoft implementation, compatible with javascript itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript
The funny commands which could expose part of the system doesnt work, of course.
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ok. first, let's forget our arguments and move on, those have nothing to do with what we are trying to accomplish. Second, how related is jscript to javascript because microsoft always has to make weird implementations of porgramming languages. This could possibly be a minor setback. Third, i'll admit that some things I posted didn't make sense, so i'll make them more understandable in the future.