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Suggested thread from the one over iPhone because we were getting off topic. What are going to be the advantages of WP7 over Android that will keep everyone from switching to Google's open platform?
Integration with Microsoft's services.
I use them a lot and I like them, but they're not enough to keep me on WM. They will, unfortunately, also not be enough to make me get WP7. At least not until all of WP7's restrictions are lifted and I can find equivalents for all the apps I have on my phone now.
Other than that, unfortunately, there is nothing that WP7 does better than Android, from what I can see. I prefer Android's UI (tiles are just widgets, but widgets are better) and of course I prefer it's openness, customizability and the unlimited possibilities.
vangrieg said:
It's incomplete.
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If you want notes and tasks, yes. But there are apps for that. Everything else is there.
But people are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones. They don't ask "what OS does this phone run". They ask "what can this phone do".
If they need Exchange, they will get a phone with Exchange.
Not on all devices. Not well on all devices.
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Right. But I'll repeat myself:
People are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones. They don't ask "what OS does this phone run". They ask "what can this phone do".
If they need multitouch, they will buy a phone with multitouch.
Yes, we geeks ask "what OS does this phone run". But not normal people. We geeks can talk about fragmentation. Normal people will never think about that, they'll just ask "can this phone do what I want?".
Fragmentation is a non-issue. And it's not only bad. Android running on more phones means more customers, means more people buying apps, means more developers, means more apps, means more customers..................
1. Only high-end devices, which means apps won't be made for the least common denominator.
2. Native full multiple account Exchange support.
3. Built-in Office stuff, with Sharepoint (wow!)
4. MS-supplied drivers, made together with chip manufacturer, no crappy stuff from HTC or whoever.
5. Integration of web services (including third-party ones) in a meaningful way - contacts go to contacts, pictures to device picture library, without doing everything in a separate app - this way even I'll be using Facebook.
6. Real OTA updates, for all devices, because of a truly uniform platform.
7. Awesome UI, not a bland iPhone/WM third party launcher rip-off, both in terms of looks (subjective) and in terms of functionality (OS level widgets with rich APIs allowing to update text, graphics and animation). Hubs are an awesome idea too. Lots of text, easy to read/see what you need to tap. Everything I ever dreamed of in a UI actually.
8. Dev tools making creating awesome UI consistent with overall OS very easy.
9. Absolutely best video codec support out of the box, with perspective OTA additions for all devices.
10. Gorgeous desktop software for syncing stuff - Zune software is truly amazing - fast, flexible, great looking, I couldn't believe it were from Microsoft.
These are just a few things that came to mind immediately.
vangrieg said:
1. Only high-end devices, which means apps won't be made for the least common denominator.
2. Native full multiple account Exchange support.
3. Built-in Office stuff, with Sharepoint (wow!)
4. MS-supplied drivers, made together with chip manufacturer, no crappy stuff from HTC or whoever.
5. Integration of web services (including third-party ones) in a meaningful way - contacts go to contacts, pictures to device picture library, without doing everything in a separate app - this way even I'll be using Facebook.
6. Real OTA updates, for all devices, because of a truly uniform platform.
7. Awesome UI, not a bland iPhone/WM third party launcher rip-off, both in terms of looks (subjective) and in terms of functionality (OS level widgets with rich APIs allowing to update text, graphics and animation). Hubs are an awesome idea too. Lots of text, easy to read/see what you need to tap. Everything I ever dreamed of in a UI actually.
8. Dev tools making creating awesome UI consistent with overall OS very easy.
9. Absolutely best video codec support out of the box, with perspective OTA additions for all devices.
10. Gorgeous desktop software for syncing stuff - Zune software is truly amazing - fast, flexible, great looking, I couldn't believe it were from Microsoft.
These are just a few things that came to mind immediately.
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Damn, great list! I couldn't of said it better myself. But you forgot Xbox live support and acheivements!
1. Since the Market shows only compatible apps, apps do NOT have to be made for the least common denominator, like on WM
2. This is there on Android
3.
4.
5. This is actually better on Android with Sense.
6. Doesn't matter. People own one device, they don't care if others get OTA updates (talking about normal people)
7. The UI looks VERY ineffiecient. VERY VERY inefficient. Wasted space everywhere (why are the programs a freakin' list?! And why so few tiles per screen? That makes it VERY hard to get to apps). Android's UI is much better.
8. Dev tools are VERY restricted. Awesome UI yes, but no native APIs = Awesone looking apps with no functionality = useless
9. Not true. Some Android devices have better codec support OOTB.
10.
I'll agree with the rest, where I've not written something.
That's against:
1. Multitasking, enables lots of possibilities (streaming radio, IM clients and other clients, navigation)
2. Copy&paste
3. Customizability (not only looks, but also easily change the default apps for everything)
4. Apps, apps, apps - a huge market
5. A native development kit - enables much richer functionality for apps
6. More efficient UI
7. You don't have to pay for high-end phones and can still get lots of the functionality
8. Google services (hey, they're not THAT bad)
9. File system access - enables richer functionality for apps and removes the requirement for proprietary syncing methods (or emailind things to oneself ).
Sethos II said:
If you want notes and tasks, yes. But there are apps for that. Everything else is there.
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2.1 in Nexus One doesn't do Calendar sync. Only with Google Calendar which I don't give a damn about. Third party apps do exist but they have limitations and their own problems; plus I don't want to rely on third parties (neither HTC nor things called Moxier) for this critical functionality.
Sethos II said:
But people are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones.
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Most Android phones suck. Nexus One is a great device except default UI and missing Exchange stuff; Desire has HTC built Exchange stuff but is the best one out there. Evo will be a serious contender when it comes out in a GSM incarnation, I'll take a close look at it.
Sethos II said:
Fragmentation is a non-issue.
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It is. Yes, there are benefits to hardware variety (especially for Google), but the downsides exist as well. They are well known and documented, so no need to repeat the same stuff over and over. You can choose to ignore them but it doesn't change the fact that they exist. Froyo will try to address it. I'll take a look at Android then, again.
2.1 in Nexus One doesn't do Calendar sync. Only with Google Calendar which I don't give a damn about.
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Strange. Mine does.
Most Android phones suck.
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At least you get more than one. You usually buy only one phone, so why deos it matter to you whether other suck? Doesn't matter at all.
no need to repeat the same stuff over and over
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So far, the only thing that's been documented is that it is in fact NOT an issue:
If Google really thought there was a problem, they'd force restrictions. The plan described there makes sense, but doesn't adress the "issue" at all, except for Google's apps.
In reality, there isn't an issue. If a certain app doesn't run on your phone, it won't show up in the market. Phone upgrades usually go from lower to higher spec'd hardware, which means most likely more apps will run on the newer phone than on the old one.
The developer interest in Android also shows, that developers aren't too concerned. Developers are much more concerned about the restrictions they find on WP7, than about the fragmentation of Android.
Those restrictions make many projects impossible, whereas the fragmentation just means a bit more work to do.
Also, if they don't force restrictions, it means more phones will run Android. That means more people buying software, which makes up for the additional work developers have to do.
The only "issue" I can see is people buying cheap phones and then complaining that it doesn't work as well as the high-end Android phone they keep hearing about. But those are stupid people, anyway.
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Now you can keep repeating yourself, but even if you keep saying it a thousand times, fragmentation won't become an issue.
Just because you're repeating it doesn't mean it will become true.
Sethos II said:
1. Since the Market shows only compatible apps, apps do NOT have to be made for the least common denominator, like on WM
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It's the same with WM. You see only a fraction of apps in Marketplace (granted, this is a joke of an appstore, but still). The problem is, when the overwhelming majority of devices are crap, that's what normal devs will target. And that's what they do.
Sethos II said:
2. This is there on Android
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No.
Sethos II said:
5. This is actually better on Android with Sense.
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Not true. With Sense (which is a third party thing to begin with), you get what's built in. In WP7 you can have third party additional services hook into OS stuff in a very smooth way, way beyond the homescreen.
Sethos II said:
6. Doesn't matter. People own one device, they don't care if others get OTA updates (talking about normal people)
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Right. Thing is, when Android 2.1 came out, how many devices get the OTA upgrade? What if the one device I own doesn't get it? If it will, will it work 100%? Will my hardware support features in 2.3?
Sethos II said:
Android's UI is much better.
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I'll leave this without comment. I said that's the UI I could only dream of - it just implements almost everything I wanted.
Sethos II said:
8. Dev tools are VERY restricted. Awesome UI yes, but no native APIs = Awesone looking apps with no functionality = useless
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Well, it's not "useless", but no arguing it's incredibly limited. Me, I need an ebook reader and a satnav app. No use in WP7 without this stuff and copy/paste, I'm just not buying it. It's in a way like early Android without NDK, only much better in terms of UI frameworks and dev tools. We'll see how it evolves, it's a big uncertainty now. I personally think that most of the limitations originate in the very simple fact that SL3 just doesn't have the necessary functionality, while SL4 isn't ready yet and therefore couldn't be ported. Among other problems, current SL doesn't have methods to interact with native code. I suspect that this, rather than some religious principles, is the reason for not getting much of the stuff needed. So, in a nutshell, Android's APIs are arguably better in most areas apart from UI. Yet WP7 is hard to beat in this department.
Sethos II said:
9. Not true. Some Android devices have better codec support OOTB.
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You missed the point. You get codec support from Samsung but not HTC, just like it is with WM. There's little to no chance you'll get it from Google.
Sethos II said:
why deos it matter to you whether other suck?
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Well, because I personally don't see a phone I would want to buy. That's one hell of a reason for me.
Sethos II said:
Strange. Mine does.
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Care to comment all this stuff?
It's the same with WM. You see only a fraction of apps in Marketplace (granted, this is a joke of an appstore, but still). The problem is, when the overwhelming majority of devices are crap, that's what normal devs will target. And that's what they do.
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No, it's not. You're completely wrong here.
Devs make the apps they want. They want a high quality graphics game, they make it. They want an app that runs on every device, they make it. No problem there!
No.
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Yes.
n WP7 you can have third party additional services hook into OS stuff in a very smooth way, way beyond the homescreen.
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No. That's how it should be, but it's not. The dev tools don't allow enough integration.
Do you have an Android? If not, shut up. Cause I have one.
What if the one device I own doesn't get it?
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If you're not a geek, you don't care. Most people are not geeks. No problem here!
I'll leave this without comment. I said that's the UI I could only dream of - it just implements almost everything I wanted.
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Lots of inefficiently used space is all you wanted? LOL
Well, it's not "useless", but no arguing it's incredibly limited.
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Exactly. That's why apps on Android will be much more functional. Maybe they don't look as beautiful, but they look good enough. WP7 will get lots of beautiful, awesome looking fart apps.
You missed the point. You get codec support from Samsung but not HTC, just like it is with WM.
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No, I didn't miss the point at all. Fact is, and I'm repeating myself again here, that people buy phones, not operating systems. They don't care whether the codec support comes from Google or HTC, they only care whether their phone can play their video or not.
Also, I don't see why Google wouldn't add codec suppot.
Well, because I personally don't see a phone I would want to buy. That's one hell of a reason for me.
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What phone do you have? I'm sure my Nexus ca easily compete with it hardware-wise!
Care to comment all this stuff?
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Don't know. I think I've downloaded a plugin or so. But I know it works on my phone.
EDIT: Ah well. That's what I did: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=5553563&postcount=2
I see it has to be rooted, because it wants the file in /system.
Well, I give you the points for that, but nevertheless, it works on mine
Plus, as I said, people buy devices. If they want Exchane, they ask "can this phone do Exchange" and if it's a Hero, Desire, Legend... then they get a "yes" and buy the device. I don't see any issue here.
The HTC apps are even better than the integration you get on WP7, or, at least as good. They merge your contacts together from Exchange, Google, SIM card, Facebook,...... just like WP7, but you get more control.
The Exchange mail inbox with HTC Sense is also better, or at least as good, as the Exchange inbox on WP7.
I really don't see an advantage for WP7 here. The HTC Sense stuff is just as good, or better.
Sethos II said:
Do you have an Android? If not, shut up. Cause I have one.
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Great argument. I won't. Shut up yourself if you want.
Sethos II said:
That's why apps on Android will be much more functional. Maybe they don't look as beautiful, but they look good enough. WP7 will get lots of beautiful, awesome looking fart apps.
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No arguing about functionality, at least in early WP7. I've already said I won't buy it for this reason. Yet it doesn't negate other benefits, including UI. And most Android apps look like crap to my taste.
Sethos II said:
No, I didn't miss the point at all. Fact is, and I'm repeating myself again here, that people buy phones, not operating systems.
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Yes you did miss the point. I can only get codec support if I buy Samsung phones. And I don't want them. I want an HTC Evo. It doesn't have codecs built in, and there are no decent third party video players yet. That's a drawback of the platform. WP7 will have the edge here. Whether it's important for you or not is a different matter.
Sethos II said:
What phone do you have? I'm sure my Nexus ca easily compete with it hardware-wise!
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HD2. Until I see a GSM Evo I personally don't care for what else Android has.
Sethos II said:
I really don't see an advantage for WP7 here. The HTC Sense stuff is just as good, or better.
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I do. I've had enough experience with HTC software to not want it. Ever. You may argue they magically turned into a great software company when they began developing for Android, but I won't believe. Native support for Exchange will always be preferrable to me. For others as well, I know it.
I've had enough experience with HTC software to not want it.
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On Android?
If not, don't judge it. Cause HTC's Android software is fine.
Their WM software only sucks because WM sucks.
HD2. Until I see a GSM Evo I personally don't care for what else Android has.
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Hm... let's see... my Nexus has the same hardware... except for the screen... which, frankly, looks much better than the HD2's (I had the HD2 before). It's also lighter, not such a fat brick. Still I prefer the HD2's Design, but that's not worth anything.
So I was right, your WM phone doesn't have better hardware...
Yes you did miss the point.
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No you missed the point. You buy phones, not operating systems. And by the way, starting from the Desire, HTC's phones get the same codec support.
Great argument. I won't. Shut up yourself if you want.
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You think you know more about Android, but you don't even have one! Really?! If you don't know something, don't talk about it.
Sethos II said:
You think you know more about Android, but you don't even have one! How stupid is that? Really, if you don't know something, don't talk about it.
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Why do Android fanboys have to be rude? I didn't offend you in any way. Yes I do know something about Android, even though you have more experience and deeper knowledge. Some of the things are common knowledge though, you don't have to own an Android device to know that none of them offer 4.3" screens. Fragmentation is a more general phenomenon than Android itself, and there's enough written and said about it, including acknowledgements by Google themselves. There's a lot of well documented information like lack of native Exchange support, and so on. So please let's not resort to trolling.
Why do Android fanboys have to be rude?
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I'm not rude, but this is true!
Don't pretend you know more about Android than someone who is actually using one.
Even "common knowledge" is often nonsense!
And please, stop talking about "native Exchange support". It does have native Exchange support, peroid.
You can say "no calendar without rooting" (which also is not true for HTC devices), but stop denying that it doesn't have native Exchange support. It even supports multiple Exchange accounts! And on an HTC device, I can have my Exchange, including the calendar, pushed to my phone, PLUS my GMail pushed. Try that on a Windows Mobile phone!
I'm not pretending to know more about Android than you do. Never even tried.
Well, somehow you did.
Anyway, the iPhone is getting multiple Exchange account support.
I don't know, but I think this is all just embarrassing for Microsoft. I mean, yes, WP7 will also have that, but when? End of the year? Come on! WP7 should have been out one year ago!
And despite that it took so long, they couldn't even figure out multitasking or notifications! I mean, they had the iPhone, the Pre, Android and so on to copy from, but they even fail at copying the others!
Oh wow... now they've even announced a gaming network... OMG. This is it for WP7. How embarrassing...
What do you think about it?
well does any knows what's confirmed in android 3.0?
not really..
so how does one compare?
Now WebOS 2.0 is a different story
vetvito said:
Now WebOS 2.0 is a different story
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How so? Does it come on a phone somebody wants to buy?
Release wise or the OS themselves? We'll have to wait until all three get released. As long as they all perform well then it will most likely be all down to personal preferences.
vangrieg said:
How so? Does it come on a phone somebody wants to buy?
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Good point. That's what really holding this OS back, however things may change next year.
To me UI isn't Google's strong suit. Google is good at minimalism, Chrome is a good example. But if it's anything more intricate & complicated then Google's UIs become less intuitive. Google Buzz, Wave, even youtube and google.com itself can be an utter disaster at times. I don't have experience with G-Mail or Orkut to comment.
Only recently has MS start providing better UI expeirences. Aero, MS Ribbons (highly debated but I like that it's touch friendly), Zune/MS Games UIs, Metro. The Entertainment Division does seem to be leading the way in terms of cutting edge UIs. But they're ahead of Google in that department.
I won't say it's impossible for Google to make a cutting edge UI, I'm sure they have alot of talent in that area, I just haven't seen it translated into a product line yet.
Edit: I assume this is a UI & integration discussion, because in terms of raw features Android already beats wp7.
gom99 said:
To me UI isn't Google's strong suit. Google is good at minimalism, Chrome is a good example. But if it's anything more intricate & complicated then Google's UIs become less intuitive. Google Buzz, Wave, even youtube and google.com itself can be an utter disaster at times. I don't have experience with G-Mail or Orkut to comment.
Only recently has MS start providing better UI expeirences. Aero, MS Ribbons (highly debated but I like that it's touch friendly), Zune/MS Games UIs, Metro. The Entertainment Division does seem to be leading the way in terms of cutting edge UIs. But they're ahead of Google in that department.
I won't say it's impossible for Google to make a cutting edge UI, I'm sure they have alot of talent in that area, I just haven't seen it translated into a product line yet.
Edit: I assume this is a UI & integration discussion, because in terms of raw features Android already beats wp7.
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They're hired the WebOS designers (after they left Palm following the takeover by HP) so presumably they will front the UI design.
i really don't get people saying Android 3.0 is going to be better than anything on the market. Well show me how it interacts, what changed, did UI get better? Just do not hope it will be, show us soem proof. I can't find anywhere that shows 3.0. To my understanding, 3.0 is just an updated version that will be suitable for tablets.
^ No proof of anything right now for 3.0. You can find tablets running every version of Android. The Samsung Galaxy Tab looks nice.
JC_Agga said:
i really don't get people saying Android 3.0 is going to be better than anything on the market. Well show me how it interacts, what changed, did UI get better? Just do not hope it will be, show us soem proof. I can't find anywhere that shows 3.0. To my understanding, 3.0 is just an updated version that will be suitable for tablets.
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And probably incompatible with current handsets. Not too long ago people were drooling over the Hero, legend, moment but lets see if those devices get the latest android OS. No thanks, I've been held hostage by HTC long enough, dont want my device obsolete right after it leaves the factory.
vetvito said:
^ No proof of anything right now for 3.0. You can find tablets running every version of Android. The Samsung Galaxy Tab looks nice.
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I'm starting to see reports that Gingerbread isn't even 3.0 as most of us assumed. It's saying that Gingerbread is another 2.x, and HoneyComb will be the 3.0. It's still all hearsay though.
btw...who exactly is the one with a sweet-tooth at google?
I can't wait to see both Win Phone 7 and Gingerbread completed.
Mobile operating systems are so diverse, complex and multifaceted these days that you just cannot say one "beats" the other. It all depends on personal preferences and requirements.
FreeDee said:
Mobile operating systems are so diverse, complex and multifaceted these days that you just cannot say one "beats" the other. It all depends on personal preferences and requirements.
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/signed
10chars
This thread will beat others?
Why everything has to be competition?
What is better?
What is faster?
Both OS will have it´s good points and bad as well, it will be just matter of preferences like all in life
Nobody knows what Android 3.0 will be.
But Android 2.1 is better than WP7 and probably Android 3.0 will be better than Android 2.1 - so Android 3.0 will be better than WP7, definitely.
Fermat said:
Nobody knows what Android 3.0 will be.
But Android 2.1 is better than WP7 and probably Android 3.0 will be better than Android 2.1 - so Android 3.0 will be better than WP7, definitely.
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It's hard to say that. Besides, bring some facts/arguments why you think it's better.
a FACT is that Silverlight/XNA development is better than Java devolpment. The majority of the developers will agree with me, because of several different reasons. Examples of these reasons are the efficiency of the language, options to port the code and the software used (Visual Studio simply is great).
Another FACT is that WP7 will not suffer from fragmentation like the old WM or like what's happening to android now.
The UI is 100% personal preference, but after using the emulator, seeing demos, and using android phones myself (hero with custom ROM, Desire) I prefer WP7 by far.
Can't say anything useful about battery life until we've got some retail models launched, but I think MS has spent a great deal optimising that as its important for the user experience.
Last but not least, the integration with the OS is excellent on WP7 - acces to Bing Maps, the phone's theme, the zune hub and more just adds a LOT of possibilities. You gotta admit its really sweet how you can instantly access all your imaging-apps (like failmakers/captioning, color effects, etc) directly when you're viewing a picture.
As you might've noticed by my post, I'm way more interested in WP7 than android right now.
The facts/arguments are spread all over this forum, no need to start this discussion again.
WP7 does have some nice things, like the beautiful (IMO) UI, but all in all, Android 2.1 is far superior.
(fragmentation doesn't hurt anyone, btw. - it only gives iPhone/WP7 fanboys something to talk about when they can't find better arguments against Android)
Oh and btw. I prefer Silverlight over Java. It's much better. In theory that is, because in the case of WP7, it's crippled by stupid restrictions.
The fact that you mention integration with the OS tells me that you don't know much about Android. It offers much more possibilities and deeper integration than WP7. Microsoft is talking about integration all the time, but that doesn't change the fact that it's been done before and much better by Google.
(yes, all the stuff like direct access to imaging apps is there and much more)
Fermat said:
<snip/>
Oh and btw. I prefer Silverlight over Java. It's much better. In theory that is, because in the case of WP7, it's crippled by stupid restrictions.
<snip/>
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It restricts stupid? That seems like is should be a good thing. Does Android allow / embrace stupid then?
Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
EDIT
Sorry, I should have elaborated. I basically want a phone that's good for texting (software keyboard on WP7 is great), fast in general (specifically the browser), has a few good time passing games (more heavy gaming would be done on my Playstation), good facebook support (which WP7 seems to support immensely), good for music/videos, good camera/video quality (I like the iPhone's HDR option, is there an app for that on WP7?) and good call quality/reception. I must admit I like apps, but not to the point that I have withdrawals for not having the same ones on each platform. It seems app development is picking up on WP7 with 100 apps a day and there are already some decent apps I would be using (flixster, IMDB, shazam, etc).
The iPhone has all these things and does them really well, but I feel like iPhone's are becoming a dime a dozen nowadays so I kinda want something that is a little bit different (has to be good though).
Someone asked why I don't like Android and BlackBerry so I guess I will explain (please don't get mad, its just my personal opinion). I've used Android on numerous occasions, but I don't like how it feels for some reason, nor do I like how the carriers customize its phone's interface with crappy skins and fail to update it promptly. I know you can do a lot with rooting, but it being my personal phone I would rather not risk losing data by tempering with it. Regarding BlackBerry's I need a phone with a touchscreen and I think the only BlackBerry at AT&T with a touchscreen is the BlackBerry Torch. When I used it, it just seemed so much slower and more bothering then it was fun to use. I'm not a corporate executive (I'm a senior in high school) that needs a phone to handle 100's of emails perfectly so I would rather not purchase one.
Hey man,
It really depends on what you want to use your phone for. It also depends on whether or not you want to make calls with your left hand (ha).
Seriously, though, I've got a WP7 device and my brother has an iPhone 4. For me, the biggest difference between the two is convenience. I have my upcoming appointments, weather, latest photos, facebook updates, emails and texts all on my homescreen, and most of the information I need day-to-day is available without having to dive into an app. When I had an iPhone, the homescreen's lack of functionality really began to frustrate me, and doing a lot of tasks became laborious.
That said, though, try both and see which you like. Obviously, the iPhone has the edge in apps but if you've got an iPad you can take advantage of iOS's huge store. Of course, the vastness of that store can be a blessing and a curse - in my experience WP7 apps tend to be of a higher standard, visually and functionally.
Basically, I don't see how you can go wrong with this choice. Both are great devices. I'd recommend Wp7 because for me it's more useful, and if you've got an iPad you can still get your angry birds fix. Anyway, try both and you can't go wrong.
Cheers
ErikWithNoC said:
Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Depends on what you want out of your phone. Without that information, the best advice I can give/ way to frame this is that it boils down to one important aspect:
Do you want variety? If you get an iPhone4, you are basically getting a smaller iPad (I own an iPad, so not knocking just saying), but you also get to share apps between the two, music, etc. If you get a WP7, you are getting and entirely new experience and platform. You will be getting duplicates of apps and in many cases music, etc.
For me, I love variety. I have several Android phones, a couple BBs, an iPad, and am getting an HD7 very soon. But I am also a cell phone salesman, so knowing every OS is vital to helping customers get the right phone. I am also a tech geek, so having different gadgets is exciting. Lastly, I am a curious person by nature and don't like not knowing first hand.
So, do you want variety (with the caveat of not having a unified experience) or do you want a unified experience across all your gadgets?
zuka right, it is about what your needs are.
I have the LG Quantum, i am in love, i need the keyboard, and i really like the "spell check" in it, i also have used the camera button more than once. WP7 has a flow to it and after using it for a bit you will like having that back button, i use it alot when my girlfriend txts me in the middle of something and i dont have to think about where i was in the UI. the iPhone is great but the GUI is feeling a little dated to me.
MartyLK said:
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
It is all comes down to the personal choice.
All WP7 devices are built around the same specs pretty much, what makes Focus stand out is its screen IMHO. I do not own neither iPhon4 nor WP7, but I have a Galaxy S with the same screen as the Focus, believe me it is a joy to have it.
iPhone4 retina display is another marvel on its own, but I think 4" screen on Samsung is the balance between real estate and the visual quality.
Of course coming here you will get more favorable opinions towards WP7, but do your research on the choices you might have. AT&T is not big on the Android offerings, but Captivate offers the same screen as Focus, but in different OS implementation.
Good luck on your choice!
pjcforpres said:
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
juist out of interest, OP, why don't you like android or blackberries?
It depends OP. Are you interested in participating in an Open Beta? If so.. WP7 is for you.
lqaddict said:
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
pjcforpres said:
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
lqaddict said:
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
pjcforpres said:
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
lqaddict said:
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and my point is that it is already present in the current offerings, no need to beat the old horse, we are not in 2007 anymore where WP7 seem to be stuck at the moment.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you are saying is, the technology was invented years ago, but MS is too ignorant to understand it and port it?
By the way, please stop going off topic. The OP asked for user experience, I gave my experience. Your other post was completely uncalled for and off topic.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from kindle says it is a universal c&p system for both third party and microsoft proprietary programs
I think a lot of people are being very hard on microsoft right now. There are features that the OS does not provide but it doesn't make me want to go back to any other OS because the experience is poor. I think microsoft has a pretty good 1.0 base with the initial update, I feel surpassing google g1 and android 1.5. there are things I still want from the OS but so far not too shabby
Jesus, can't you guys go one thread without desolving into an android vs wp7 flame war?
Just try and be constructive and answer the guy's question.
The answer to OP is:
Search and browse a lot, see reviews and criticisms of the gadget, then try to "take in the hand" and finally choose.
Avoid opening in this thread. Only generates flame.
Closed Thread.
It really kicks the **** out of any mobile OS on the market by a landslide. I keep wanting to make a switch to something new just because I've been using it so long and I'm kind of bored, but honestly ever time I start really researching what's out there, I realize there is nothing even CLOSE to what Android offers. I was starting to get excited about the new BB10, but once again, after really researching and watching demos, that phone is going to be an epic failure and probably blackberrys ultimate demise. Their big "hub" idea is nothing more than Android's notification system but from the side instead of the top. Windows Phone probably has the most promise at this time, but they still have too many little annoyances for me (no folders, no ability to change email notification sounds between different accounts, no ability to separate your volumes for different notifications/alerts etc) that add up to a big no right now. IPhone is just years behind...I do love their hardware and that alone has made me think about switching, but then I start looking at their software and once again, it's a no.
Oh well...Android is king right now and as far as I can see (now and on the horizon), there is nothing even on the same page. Add the Note 2's functionality and you have an absolute ass whoopin going on...Haha.
Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
I'll disagree with you on the BB10. The issue with RIM's past was antiquated software and hardware. They refused to change and the mobile market decided to leave them behind. With BB10, they've basically fused a bit of ios, android and wp into one. Other than wp8, I've used all the other OS on a daily basis to know that each OS has its own potential and I'm sure tech fans would agree with that assessment. I think BB10 will be a huge success for RIM and will also motivate the innovations of the other OS as well.
lude219 said:
I'll disagree with you on the BB10. The issue with RIM's past was antiquated software and hardware. They refused to change and the mobile market decided to leave them behind. With BB10, they've basically fused a bit of ios, android and wp into one. Other than wp8, I've used all the other OS on a daily basis to know that each OS has its own potential and I'm sure tech fans would agree with that assessment. I think BB10 will be a huge success for RIM and will other motivate the innovations of the other OS as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RIM will motivate other platforms to do what??? Not become as crappy and irrelevant as the BlackBerry OS? There is not one thing that BlackBerry is doing right now (or will be doing) that everyone else hasn't exceeded ten fold. The BB OS makes Windows Phone look Android and iOS combined times three!
That is just your biased opinion, nothing more.
I have owned many and currently own an Android phone (Note II). That said I have nothing against WP8, iPhone, or BB10 (yet).
There are MANY features of the Lumia 920 that I like better than any Android phone I have owned. As a phone, it is probably my #1 pick right now. That said I am a flash junkie and I got bored with it. The WP8 market has some quality apps but still lacks in quantity. Also a few quams with WP8, but not too many. Simple things like not being able to set my own custom sms tone (you can chose only from factory options). All in all though WP8 is VERY smooth and the Lumia 920, while slightly bulky (although while thick still doesn't feel bulky compared to a Note II), is a VERY solid handset.
Again iPhone has many good qualities and iOS has by far the best selection of mobile games (I am sorry if you disagree, but this is fact.). The phones themselves do have a nice feel (personal choice) and smaller size which some people demand/want. I personally do not care for them as my own device,but that is almost entirely due to the small screen size (opinion/personal choice) and being locked to itunes which I despise.
I will almost definitely try a BB10 phone on launch unless I find something before hand that I know 100% I won't be able to deal with. I love trying out new phones, hardware and software.
Android and it's manufacturers have their own set of flaws just like Apple and MS/Nokia/etc... I won't bother listing my opinions there out of the flaming I would take over it, but I personally don't consider Android "king" of anything except selection and modification.
lude219 said:
I'll disagree with you on the BB10. The issue with RIM's past was antiquated software and hardware. They refused to change and the mobile market decided to leave them behind. With BB10, they've basically fused a bit of ios, android and wp into one. Other than wp8, I've used all the other OS on a daily basis to know that each OS has its own potential and I'm sure tech fans would agree with that assessment. I think BB10 will be a huge success for RIM and will also motivate the innovations of the other OS as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BB10 will be Rims saving grace. If it flops, they will die. There is no doubt about that.
And the only way BB10 will be a successful OS is if they have enough developers to support them. Without the developers they will have a useless phone.
I personally own a Playbook, and the QNX operating system is by far the fastest when it comes to web browsing. If you look up sunspider results you will see what I mean. The playbook is even running on outdated hardware. Throw a S4 Pro, paired with 2Gb of ram and it will be the fastest tablet to date.
Multimedia is fantastic on it too. I'm able to watch a 1080p video, stream it to my big screen via HDMI cable flawlessly. It doesn't even have to turn the tablet screen off. The software is that efficient.
The only downfall is the extreme lack of apps. If some developers back BB10, it will be successful. And I will dive in for sure
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda app-developers app
unrelated response
crawlgsx said:
That is just your biased opinion, nothing more.
I have owned many and currently own an Android phone (Note II). That said I have nothing against WP8, iPhone, or BB10 (yet).
There are MANY features of the Lumia 920 that I like better than any Android phone I have owned. As a phone, it is probably my #1 pick right now. That said I am a flash junkie and I got bored with it. The WP8 market has some quality apps but still lacks in quantity. Also a few quams with WP8, but not too many. Simple things like not being able to set my own custom sms tone (you can chose only from factory options). All in all though WP8 is VERY smooth and the Lumia 920, while slightly bulky (although while thick still doesn't feel bulky compared to a Note II), is a VERY solid handset.
Again iPhone has many good qualities and iOS has by far the best selection of mobile games (I am sorry if you disagree, but this is fact.). The phones themselves do have a nice feel (personal choice) and smaller size which some people demand/want. I personally do not care for them as my own device,but that is almost entirely due to the small screen size (opinion/personal choice) and being locked to itunes which I despise.
I will almost definitely try a BB10 phone on launch unless I find something before hand that I know 100% I won't be able to deal with. I love trying out new phones, hardware and software.
Android and it's manufacturers have their own set of flaws just like Apple and MS/Nokia/etc... I won't bother listing my opinions there out of the flaming I would take over it, but I personally don't consider Android "king" of anything except selection and modification.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should have prefaced my post by saying that I have owned the Blackberry Pearl, the Bold 9930, the Playbook, Lumia 900, iPhone 4 and 4s...I have experienced all the big mobile OS's, so I'm not just an Android fanboy that has no real world experience using other software platforms. Like I said, I really want to fall in love with another platform just because I feel I have gotten everything I could possibly get out of Android, but it just never works out that way. I always end up back with Android wondering when someone will make an OS even close to it.
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powerwagon said:
I always end up back with Android wondering when someone will make an OS even close to it.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung will be the someone you're looking for.
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It's all about personal preference and personal bias....and what your actually comparing.
The vast majority of smart phone users don't fully understand their own device...let alone the other available ones...but if your talking specifics of what the bulk of smart phones can do in stock form..then you really need to discuss specifics...not just in general terms.
While some phones are more capable doing certain things...others can do the same...well enough..that many folks don't even bother researching all the models. Instead..the rely on peer reviews and what is "trending" to make their choices,or what their favorite celebrity pimps on TV...
Android does has something all others do not...and that is the absolute frigging humongous dedicated group of individuals who choose to share what they have made which in-turn can make our phones do the things we here want them to do without charge... Without this dedicated group of people...Android would be no different than all the rest...
Some may disagree...but... the numbers of developers for Android that do this just for the love of doing it...far exceed any other platform...and that is why Android is King of the hill...regardless of what new OS Windows, Rim or Apple decides to bash their future on. The others are hoping their dedicated cult will excite all to switch to their latest & greatest..and all plan more media blitzes to sway the masses to grab that ever dwindling % of market share...which will work for a little while ..but..only Android is open source...which allows as much customization as easily as it does...for now.
Like I said...it is about personal preferences and personal biases...and what & how that individual chooses a smart phone...
Mac
Very well said Mac
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Just read this article, today, by sheer coincidence. It basically states that Android has finally eclipsed iOS.
Cnet — Android Challenges the iPhone in Every Category.
Hi,
I always had android phones (galaxy's, notes & nexuses) but it always seemed like the iOS ecosystem was better, software wise.
From the outside it seems that they are getting better apps, faster updates (even to big apps) and of course they have the iMessage that all of my friends from the US uses and is a huge part of why I want to swich. (I'm from europe).
What do you guys think? Should I jump ship once and see how it is?
If thats what you want
tal123 said:
Hi,
I always had android phones (galaxy's, notes & nexuses) but it always seemed like the iOS ecosystem was better, software wise.
From the outside it seems that they are getting better apps, faster updates (even to big apps) and of course they have the iMessage that all of my friends from the US uses and is a huge part of why I want to swich. (I'm from europe).
What do you guys think? Should I jump ship once and see how it is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually like many people used iPhones but here I am.
Do you really think on a board like XDA, in the Pixel XL forum you are going to get everybody telling you how great iPhone is?
AstroDigital said:
I actually like many people used iPhones but here I am.
Do you really think on a board like XDA, in the Pixel XL forum you are going to get everybody telling you how great iPhone is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Truly. This is an android enthusiast forum. If you want an iphone, go get one. Don't expect that recommendation from anyone here, though.
I think that there could be good points for both sides. it's no different then pixel vs any other flagship.
Yeah, no, it's very different. IOS vs Android, not Android vs Android. This being an android specific forum, you're not likely to find much in the way of love for the iphone 7 here.
I think it is always weird to have iOS vs android discussions in a specific phone's forum. That seems like a more general topic better discussed elsewhere.
This forum us for talking about this phone...
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Lack of a back button is reason alone to stay on Android!
I know and understand your frustrations with Android. I've been an avid android fan since the OG Droid came out. What a phone and I loved it. Pure simple and open Motorola did a great job with that phone. Fragmentation ruined that phone and most every android phone since. The thing I hated apple for was the reason andtroid was so frustrating. To this day I get sick of looking at my wifes Iphone, it looks almost exactly the same as the original Iphone, if she puts wallpaper or a photo on her phone its just covered up by the icons that apple stick there and thats annoying to me anyway. Customizing your Iphone without jailbreaking lol... even the name lets you know how they feel about messing with their phone. Let's see Android is rooting Apple is jailbreaking even in a simple adjective they let you know don't touch fall in line with everyone and like it! I really domn't like the concept of Apple sorry, it's my phone I paid for it I should be able to do whatever I want as long as I'm not intruding on the rights of others and I'm sorry I do't see how customizing my phone would bother anyone. What they did and still do have right is they control the quality of the products in their app store and Andropid has dropped the ball on that one since the beginning. looking back they were trying for numbers not quality to compete and it has cost them. The quality of apps on the iphone is better and in saying that Android is catching up. These are basically the same apps written for different platforms. Ive seen it with my wifes phone for years I get so many more force closings amnd associated other problems than she does and I can hear her frustrations when using my phone. Like I said Android has been getting better and it's a heck of alot easier writing programs for one platform and one manufacturer. This is Androids problem each manufacturer has made alterations to Android AKA skins along with constant updates its tough on developers. The whole reason for Nexus was to give the developers a heads up and a chance to work with a pure version of android. I always loved the Nexus program and found that I personally had much fewer problems than my friends that had HTC, Samsung LG etc..... These manufacturers were never held accountable for upgrading on a timely fashion and neither were the providers aka verizon AT&T etc... this is why we are in the mess we are. I think and hope google has finally said enough! They have designed and engineered a top of the line flagship, one that is not outdated before the first box arrives. This phone is one people should be proud of it's fast and smooth its as close to pure android as possible oh I know Verizon put a few apps on it but they can be removed and give mne a break that's no big deal. It's a top quality phone that can stand up to the Iphone. Believe me if you know anyone that has drank the KoolAide and my wife has it certainly isn't going to change their minds and expecting that is not realistic. Google has given the developers a phone and a platform to work with and lets see how much of a difference this makes. I for one am hoping it makes as big a difference as Google thinks it will. I think incorporating with VR and home is swinging for the fences and I hope it's a home run.
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tal123 said:
Hi,
I always had android phones (galaxy's, notes & nexuses) but it always seemed like the iOS ecosystem was better, software wise.
From the outside it seems that they are getting better apps, faster updates (even to big apps) and of course they have the iMessage that all of my friends from the US uses and is a huge part of why I want to swich. (I'm from europe).
What do you guys think? Should I jump ship once and see how it is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used an iPhone a number of years ago, jail broke it used Cydia the whole nine yards, once I started using Android devices I have NEVER looked back. In my position I get to try out different phones and some of the people at my company use iPhones. I have taken them home for weekend test drives just to see if I'm missing anything and after a day or so I find myself putting the SIM back in my current android device. I can't speak for you or what may be most important to you but for me I would not go back to ios.
yeah apple do a good job with software/hardware integration, but then it's to be expected with a heavily locked down device, it's the same reason they get updates first they are simpler to make stuff for.
but for me I've just always found Android way more flexible and I would rather have that flexibility. end of the day it all comes down to personal choice.