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Below is just my opinion, and take it as such.
Windows 7 dissapoints me beyond belief. In fact, teverything about it is the "worst case scenario".
<rant>
1. Home page.. I can sum it up in "WTF". The home page that takes up about 80% of the screen (so even big screens look gimped, small and shifted to the side), with a huge area on right and up completely wasted for nothing. Ugly plain-colored squares, with no design consistency (big, small, long, tall) with pieces of information that make no sense.
2. Social networking - as for me, I really don't give a flying turd about my neighbor's ugly kid drawing an image of a bird on the wall with his drool. Nor do I care that much about viewing hundreds of pictures of my friend visiting his grandma. Thanks for covering my home screen with that.
3. Xbox - I don't even have an xbox, nor do I plan to buy one. Neither do most of the business-oriented people who buy a PDA. And even if I did, would I really be so obsessed about my "avatar" or "points" or whatever they use, that I need it on my home page?
4. Emailing - the heart of a PDA. For some people, even more important than the calling itself. By looking at the presentation videos 7's email system is complete trash. It gives you no real "sense" for the inbox, there is no good view to browse your emails properly. Swiping through pages to see "flagged" "unread" on different screens creates a feeling that you're not getting the whole picture, and you're missing stuff. Besides, it has no good integration with contacts that HTC's Sense provides pretty darn well.
5. Interface in general - animation effects blow. They are kind-of OK for today's standards, but when 7 is released, they will already be boring and plain. They are not looking forward, the "flow" of it is already outdated and will be completely destroyed by any new interface that Android or especially Apple will no-doubt deliver in near future. Besides, how awesome it is to see parts of words all the time? "Peop" turns into "ople", so if you slide left-and-right real fast, you can actually see a whole word..... freaking idiotic.
6. Customization... I'm just speechless. This is the only thing that I could raise as WM's, perhaps, only advantage over Android and iPhone. Now they are officially going over to the Apple's way of treating customers like money-packed down-syndrome drooling kids that fall into a seizure when they hear words "cab" or "tweak". After hanging in xda-developers for so long, and writing my own stuff for the PDA, this alone is way more than enough to make me never even look at WM devices again.
7. "Copy and paste" and "multitasking".... I cannot believe that there is even a controversy over WM device having those 2 features... I don't even know what else to say about this. Insane.
Microsoft is obviously a huge Apple fanboy now. They are accepting their market strategies and their development practices and are scared ****less to look ahead and develop something brilliant.
At this point, with current info, WM7 is nothing more than a bad, extremely poorly designed iPhone interface mod. It's already outdated, already looks inefficient, boring and just waiting to be forgotten. Heck, age-old HTC Home plugin looks way better than WM7, and is actually more useful for everyday tasks.
</rant>
Flame away.
Sadly I couldn't agree more... I had been waiting for the mytical complete revamping of the Windows Mobile OS, and when the first real info came out in Spain, I was stoked by what they were presenting (although I couldn't understand the oddly offset homescreen squares)... This week has been nothing but disappointment after disappointment It seems they took all the bad plays out of the iphone playbook (which apple has mostly since corrected) and decided to repeat them. I was hoping for an windows 'iphone' that righted all the wrongs of Apple:
-Controlled Interfaces (both in Syncronizing information with PC and in application installs)
-Real Copy and Paste
-File System
-Use as a USB flash Drive when connected to computer
-Removeable media
Windows Mobile, was ugly and slow, but useful once you knew it. I just feel now that this will be pretty, but no better than a 1G iphone
i dont disagree with any of your points
Yes, I also agree. Microsoft has just threw out everything, that was keeping Windows Mobile different, usable and customizable. I use copy&paste, multitasking and today plugins every day and I can't live without it. I won't use Windows Phone 7, I'd better wait if somebody makes a mobile phone running full desktop Windows (I think it will be someday, now we have HD2 with 1GHz CPU and we are also able to boot Ubuntu on HTC devices).
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around. I bet in a few years, Android will become the NEW Windows Mobile (and I mean that in a bad way )
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around.
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
DarkDvr said:
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
WhyBe said:
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
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Click to collapse
Well, in BEST case scenario (for MS), that's what will happen. However, for me, that's wishful thinking.
Will there be WM7 hacks? Yeah, of course. Question is, how easy/available/useful they will be. WM6 platform, even with all its deficiencies, is a nice and easy platform to tweak/expand. So far, WM7 looks to be complete opposite of that (just look at their idea of branding and marketplace), and few hacks that will be released won't make up for anything. Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
DarkDvr said:
Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
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Click to collapse
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
WhyBe said:
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
DarkDvr said:
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
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Click to collapse
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than endlessly Googling to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
WhyBe said:
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than Googling for an hour to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
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Click to collapse
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
DarkDvr said:
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
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Click to collapse
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
WhyBe said:
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
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And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
DarkDvr said:
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
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Click to collapse
Well, we don't know what's truly under the hood of WP7 yet. We know it has multitasking, it is just highly restricted. Copy and paste can be implemented within the app (MS'es alternative to C&P seem pretty slick though). I don't see WP7 as a blatant copy of Apple, MS just acknowledged some winning points of the iPhone platform and followed suit and improved upon it (that's smart business actually). I think MS concept of the OS is far more advanced than what iPhone delivers. I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es. Android sort of reminds me of WM.
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. Even HTC Sense "broke" alot of the things I was used to in the standard WM interface (MS Voice Command and PhonEx just didn't work properly or consistently, for example). God only knows what would "break" if I installed some other WM shell.
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't share yours though:
WhyBe said:
I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see anything that's "new style" about it. Cut words, ugly squares, "pushable" buttons look identical to the labels, which creates confusion.. etc etc.
WhyBe said:
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. ...
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Click to collapse
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
WhyBe said:
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
WhyBe said:
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
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Click to collapse
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
WhyBe said:
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Openness of current WM platform is about the only plus it has, not its drawback. I think that's pretty much established.
Besides, as I've said before, you don't have to pick between a smooth experience and openness for customization. WM7 could have an excellent setup right from the box, if you like what they've made, even maybe the one they have now. Nobody says that at the same time it cannot have support for developer's imagination. Nobody besides MS's analytics who decided that copying Apple will bring them a big buck. Honestly, no, it won't.
chiks19018 said:
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>.< That's not the point.
DarkDvr said:
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All consumer cars have the exact same interface. Steering, acceleration and brakes...
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software. It's always worked for me. Now the third-party stuff...that's a different story. If things like social networking and cloud computing are implemented on the OS level (instead in the app), it will be easier for third party apps to work in conjunction. Bing on the OS level will be a lot better than a Bing app. Same for Voice Command (if MS uses it).
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This philosophy is failing WM and Android.
WhyBe said:
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software.
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Then you've never used Windows ME or anything before Windows 98.
Let's just agree to disagree =)
Heya Minty here =D , Just sat here with a question
Now probably most of the devs here know that Froyo is 450% faster then Eclair
My question :
Are there any plans of getting Froyo on the HTC black*sheit*stone *coughcough* ?
And if so Is it going to run like hell or wha =D ?
Thanks =^.^=
\/ Peace!!!
Minty
thatd b f§$%in mint!!! =D
You can find the Review of the Froyo Android benchmarked with linpack >>Here<<<
And @ N!ghty Yeah it would be fecking Mint =D !
well, lets hope that someone will attend to the job then X=) :drool:
I kind of really hope so too =D , Now we all need is a Rom wich u just can flash on the HD , Instead of the Haret winmo Kernel killer, and i'm not getting rid of my blackbrick
It's not even close to 450% faster.
Don't believe all you read.
That test done at AndroidPolice.com is a single and not very significant benchmark. It's a program doing floating point math with matrices. This is not a representative example of the apps used on android phones.
Of course it's faster, Froyo uses JIT compiler, so the code is compiled once and the ran multiple times in native form. The standard java compiler has to translate the code everytime. There are other things that will influence the performance, like having good drivers and allow some apps and codecs to run native code.
The current situation is similar to what Microsoft intended to do with Windows NT, putting all third party code, including drivers, on a layer above the kernel. So that a faulty driver could not take the system down. But this lead to slow framerates on gaming, so people kept gaming under MS-DOS and not Windows. Microsoft had to allow some things so gaming was possible in Windows.
i also noticed the test was done using a google nexus one with a 1ghz processor, not on something like a hero that has the same 528mhz processor that our blackstone has.
Ofcourse, You're all right thats true, i just wish Google or HTC would release an official version of android for our blackbricks that would be killer, or release ALL info about the chipsets and radios used in our bricks =D *hey, we can all dream right ? * hehe
Gumshot said:
Ofcourse, You're all right thats true, i just wish Google or HTC would release an official version of android for our blackbricks that would be killer, or release ALL info about the chipsets and radios used in our bricks =D *hey, we can all dream right ? * hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, but they rather dont give a **** about ppl trying to put android on a winmo phone of theirs... its simply uneconomical
N!ghty said:
yeah, but they rather dont give a **** about ppl trying to put android on a winmo phone of theirs... its simply uneconomical
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Click to collapse
Quite right... and fair on HTC's part too. How are they supposed to just dream up a bunch of developers and testers to do a port? and then... they have to go through all the operator approval tests again... remember the operators subsidised the phones in many regions with the expectation for WinMo, not Android.
Folks just don't understand that a 'phone' is not just a phone.... it's a massive part of a whole telecoms industry that's VERY political and full of competition.
It's just not realistic to expect a 2 year old device to be supported with enhancements unless the business model is like Apple's where the entire ecosystem is around the apps and services (read Advertising).
Thanks everyone , i'm just thinking that i would go and get the new iPhone june/july , Registered as a dev there and for android too shame that HTC wouldn't do things like that but it could be expected obviously
Thanks everyone
Yeh, because going to an even more closed off platform is clearly the answer.
Thats why all those 1st gen iPhone's running on iPhoneOS 4.0... oh wait...
An android platform is hackable, so even if there isn't any official support, someone can mod it. I'm happily running 2.1 on my HTC Magic even though it's only supported at 1.6, I'm sure there will be a 2.2 release.
Quite right...
Apple do a sterling job of marketing and making very very good products appear to be out of this world products.
However, the facts are:
1) It's a closed platform
2) It's low resolution (but hides it well)
3) It is the most responsive UI in the world
4) It doesn't multitask well, not even in V4 which improves matters, but isn't WinMo
5) The functionality is superficially wonderful, below the surface it's limited.
6) Hacking is possible, but the customisation options are generally poor (accepted that folks are porting Android to it)
7) Apple's policy of 'our way, or go away' has merits. It does improve UI consistency, and the overall consistency of the product.... but it stifles innovation and has a very ugly habit of killing of competitive software that Apple doesn't want to give ground to.
For me, WinMo is STILL the best all round smartphone OS, but the UI sucks. And still sucks on WM7.
Symbian is slowly dying (too late for Nokia to save it now)
Android is interesting, on most of the best products at the moment, but still lagging behind WinMo in functionality, streets ahead in attractive UI, a little ahead in usable UI
For me, Android's the most likely to improve. The dev community is moving to it en-mass, and Microsoft still manage to clutch mediocrity from the jaws of greatness.
Apple will eventually discover what Nokia discovered... people just grow tired of the best device and want something new and different. Once everyone's got an iPhone, they want something different...
TheBrilliantMistake said:
Quite right...
Apple do a sterling job of marketing and making very very good products appear to be out of this world products.
However, the facts are:
1) It's a closed platform
2) It's low resolution (but hides it well)
3) It is the most responsive UI in the world
4) It doesn't multitask well, not even in V4 which improves matters, but isn't WinMo
5) The functionality is superficially wonderful, below the surface it's limited.
6) Hacking is possible, but the customisation options are generally poor (accepted that folks are porting Android to it)
7) Apple's policy of 'our way, or go away' has merits. It does improve UI consistency, and the overall consistency of the product.... but it stifles innovation and has a very ugly habit of killing of competitive software that Apple doesn't want to give ground to.
For me, WinMo is STILL the best all round smartphone OS, but the UI sucks. And still sucks on WM7.
Symbian is slowly dying (too late for Nokia to save it now)
Android is interesting, on most of the best products at the moment, but still lagging behind WinMo in functionality, streets ahead in attractive UI, a little ahead in usable UI
For me, Android's the most likely to improve. The dev community is moving to it en-mass, and Microsoft still manage to clutch mediocrity from the jaws of greatness.
Apple will eventually discover what Nokia discovered... people just grow tired of the best device and want something new and different. Once everyone's got an iPhone, they want something different...[/QUOTE
Good analysis and well said
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I couldn't agree more
the one and only
then one and only WinMo :
Fo shizzle my nizzle, LOL
@ontopic, Its such a shame that WM7 is not going to be availible for ours even too ( such a waiste and a shame
TheBrilliantMistake said:
Quite right...
Apple do a sterling job of marketing and making very very good products appear to be out of this world products.
However, the facts are:
1) It's a closed platform
2) It's low resolution (but hides it well)
3) It is the most responsive UI in the world
4) It doesn't multitask well, not even in V4 which improves matters, but isn't WinMo
5) The functionality is superficially wonderful, below the surface it's limited.
6) Hacking is possible, but the customisation options are generally poor (accepted that folks are porting Android to it)
7) Apple's policy of 'our way, or go away' has merits. It does improve UI consistency, and the overall consistency of the product.... but it stifles innovation and has a very ugly habit of killing of competitive software that Apple doesn't want to give ground to.
For me, WinMo is STILL the best all round smartphone OS, but the UI sucks. And still sucks on WM7.
Symbian is slowly dying (too late for Nokia to save it now)
Android is interesting, on most of the best products at the moment, but still lagging behind WinMo in functionality, streets ahead in attractive UI, a little ahead in usable UI
For me, Android's the most likely to improve. The dev community is moving to it en-mass, and Microsoft still manage to clutch mediocrity from the jaws of greatness.
Apple will eventually discover what Nokia discovered... people just grow tired of the best device and want something new and different. Once everyone's got an iPhone, they want something different...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A very board view. and true.
I'm living it differently. I own an Ipod Touch 1.0 gen (jailbreak), Touch Diamond 500 with Win 6.5 modded and I'm desperately and impatiently awaiting THE BATTERY FIX, lol, so that my batt can last all day on xdandroid 2.01. xdandroid is awsome!
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
I agree.
But it won't change anything.
Comparing RTM Releases is more than valid, becaue in every case the OS was so far behind what was already on the market (Android/iOS vs. WinMo/Symbian) that it wasn't even funny.
WP7 isn't anything near as far behind Android/iOS as those platforms were compared to the aformentioned upon release. It has nothing to do with hardware, either.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
N8ter said:
I agree.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
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Click to collapse
yes i think you have seen the post that pushed me to start this thread lol.
lumpaywk said:
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. When both iOs and Android were introduced, they were immediately compared to everything else.
Whatever IS released on market, out of Beta and RTM - should be compared.
Whatever is sold to customer.
And trust me, that is what MS wants too. Compare and eventually win.
And very valid point - as well as Apple and Google were having DEBUTS on the market,
MS was on the market for 10 fuc....ng years.
I wait to judge finally for the first upgrade.
You know what is the thing with WP7?
It gives such a big promise it creates huge frustration for some.
I want it but only if I will not loose any of the things I need in my live.
Id be inclined to say Android left its beta stage with the release of 2.1. Before that, it didnt even support multitouch. The interface is still nowhere near that of wp7 or iphone in terms of smoothness. WP7 is way too polished to be a beta, but there are just a few things I wish it had to make it perfect. Android was launched over 2 years ago and it was a dud until verizon picked it up.. an unpolished one at that. I still dont understand why people want to use it other than verizon didnt have the iphone at the time.
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
palm's current OS is not their first attempt at a phone os either.
but whats the point in comparing the different OS .. if it meets your needs then its good ... if it doesn't then it needs work ...
The Gate Keeper said:
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point about it being a new brand, I think one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes is branding of Windows Phones. In my opinion they really should have tried to distance themselves from Windows Mobile as WM has a stigma associated with it seems.
But I still think there's plenty of room in the market for Windows Phone to do well. Even if sales aren't great now, I think Microsoft has a great product and if they continue to build on it I don't see why it wouldn't do well. Remember; 70% of people in the US don't own smartphones yet.
Either way, why do we need to compare this launch feature-to-feature with previous launches? Does that matter when considering a new phone? If you like the phone, buy one. If not, don't.
yeah I agree, comparing an RTM now to over 3 years ago is just inane.
They've had that time to see how to build a successful OS and they opted to use an iOS model that's closed off and tailored for people who don't want too many choices, just easy access to facebook and texting and such.
no copy/paste is pretty stupid I don't care what year it is...
but yeah, comparing an RTM now to then is a world of difference. iOS now does a lot more than WP7, and we all knew the limitations of WP7 months ago, plenty of time for MS to fix this stuff, they have no excuse.
vetvito said:
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long have you used WinMo???
Really, when has that experience been anything but frustrating out of the box???
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
N8ter said:
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
SMH at N8ter, yet again with the personal attacks. How about staying on topic.
N8ter said:
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
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Click to collapse
You spoiled most of threads with hate to the people who have different views than yours, and with your forceful promotion of WP7.
Just let other's speak. Why do you flame here all the time?
We can discuss here what we don't like, can't you just accept it?
If it's too hard, just start yor won thread.
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
fb401 said:
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point.
orangekid said:
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
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Click to collapse
I have owned a Captivate and a Focus, one is Hummingbird the other is Snapdragon. I get atleast 20% more battery life with the Focus than I did on the Captivate. I don't remember if the Captivate had a smaller battery though, the Focus is 1500mah
orangekid said:
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The UI on Android seems like Windows XP in a Windows 7/OSX world to me. It's not bad, but it is definitely not as "slick" or "fluid" as WP7 or iOS.
Exchange support on Android is getting better, but it is still pretty basic. Even with 3rd party apps, it is less than perfect. The 3rd party apps do not integrate contacts with the phone address book very well.
orangekid said:
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
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If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then the X10a (with generic ROM and all bloat removed) vs the WP7 devices is the best comparison to make. I have an X10a (a=North America version) and the Focus. The Focus is definitely snappier. This is on essentially equal hardware, so it appears the WP7 is more optimized than Android 2.1. I have not used 2.2 on the X10a (mostly because there is no NAND loadable version yet) so it may be more on par with 2.2.
orangekid said:
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To say there is no choice on anything is not 100% true. You do get to choose which live tiles to use (essentially like widgets) but you are stuck with the as-designed home screen. This is in my opinion a good decision by Microsoft. As much fun as it is to tinker with different home replacements on Android, it is not something that is good for most users. The UI should be consistent across devices so that the overall experience is consistent.
orangekid said:
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed!
orangekid said:
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe in some fantasy world where the only people who use smartphones are XDA forum posters.
HD2s get better battery life than Vibrants out of the box (I had both and used both for months before I sold the HD2 - actually used the HD2 more since all my media and documents were stored on it) and it has a smaller battery. There are Efficient ROMs for WinMo devices, IIRC, which give better battery life (I use only stock ROMs).
An Android handset cannot even compete with a Nokia for battery life. WP7 gives better battery life than Android.
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already said this more than twice in two different threads. I've tried saying it in different ways. I can say it in French if they want, my French is respectable...
I still don't think they'll get it, though...
These types of comparisons are made all the time.
Exchange support on Android is not *fine*. If you think it is, then you have not used an WinMo, iPhone, or Symbian phone against an Exchange server, especially on a device used for business. Exchange ActiveSync has existed for almost a decade... To have such poor support (compared to competing products) after being on the market 2 years... Well, it's terrible. TouchDown and other clients are buggy or have unacceptable workarounds for some of the shortcomings in the Android OS. They are not usable in all use cases - not to mention they're expensive as hell.
Better off just getting an N8 and buying SPB Mobile Shell. You'll get more bang for your buck, that way, IMO (due to better Business features, battery life, and support for more DRM and Media Types + offline navigation capabilities on top of a pentaband radio).
Captivate has a 1500mAh battery. Battery life on Android is worse than on other platforms. That is why Google is still trying to make improvements IRT battery life.
The user interface on Android is terrible compared to WP7 and iOS, especially when it comes to applications. Go to http://www.TweetDeck.com and compare the Android and iOS user interfaces. As far as the OS user interface... It's worse than 3rd party replacements like SPB Mobile Shell, and the reason why there's a market for this is because the Android UI is terrible. If it was "fine," then Manufacturers wouldn't spend the kind of cash and resourecs they do defacing it as if it was another version of Symbian OS or Windows Mobile.
The Sony Ericson devices probably the the most attractive Android skins on them. I was in Best Buy on Black Friday playing around with one. I didn't even know what the hell it was until I dug around in the menus, either. It was very attractive, performant, and intuitive. Unfortunately, only a minority of Android devices have this sort of user experience.
N8ter, I hope none of that was directed at me. I am in almost complete agreement with your statements.
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.
There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.
j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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Click to collapse
yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too
j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.
j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
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Click to collapse
It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.
WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.
So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!
Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"
What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.
WP7 UI experience is just plain AWESOME. If only MS gets Mango on all current and future WP7 devices before this year end, its gonna be a real threat to Android and iOS.
-proud owner of a Samsung Focus (7.0.7004.0)
update::
Ok so why do I think WP7 is awesome compared to Android? Well for starters the concept of Hubs is amazing. The Music Hub has all my songs, videos and even links to 3rd party Music/Video Apps right in one place. The Android Music Player seems like junk compared to the Zune player, it even automatically finds the currently playing songs Artist image and sets it as the background for the entire Zune Hub which although seems trivial but it really adds a nice touch.
The Office Hub does not even have a comparable application on Android. The mango update is gonna make it even better with skydrive integration built rt into the hub.
Xbox live integration with its achievements and gamer points really increases the replay value of games. Although one thing which i currently find annoying is the high minimum price of the xbox live games, some of which cost $2 more than their iPhone counterparts. This may be due in part becoz WP7 is a newer platform so as it matures and the adoption rate increases prices will reduce.
overall the UI really seems to be built for the consumer and is really easy to use. from what I have seen of Android it just seems like a marriage between Symbian/WinMo. Sure you can customize the hell out of it and currently it has a lot of features which WP7 lacks but IMO only features do not determine the success of a platform coz Symbian/WMO had most of these features half a decade ago. And frankly the average consumer does not give a damn about modding/ ROMS/ features etc.
.....hmm have to get back to work now, will update this asap ....unless the thread gets locked
Well, I recommend you get your NoDo fix now...it is super easy, and works using either the data method or wifi...
kapanak said:
Well, I recommend you get your NoDo fix now...it is super easy, and works using either the data method or wifi...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup I'm aware of the Hungarian VPN hack, but am not that desperate for NoDo right now so will wait for ATT to get its act together.
Tried Android emulator on amazon.com and decided that WP7 UI is awesome?
I'm not sure how this works.
vangrieg said:
Tried Android emulator on amazon.com and decided that WP7 UI is awesome?
I'm not sure how this works.
Click to expand...
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Something like humping an ugly fat neighbour to appreciate your slim, beautiful wife even more ?!
Avandor said:
Something like humping an ugly fat neighbour to appreciate your slim, beautiful wife even more ?!
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Jesus!
vangrieg said:
Tried Android emulator on amazon.com and decided that WP7 UI is awesome?
I'm not sure how this works.
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Click to collapse
Well I was a former Symbian user and had never used an Android device before, so this was my first time with the Android UI which I must say offers nothing compared to WP7.
Avandor said:
Something like humping an ugly fat neighbour to appreciate your slim, beautiful wife even more ?!
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Click to collapse
lol rofl
fat girls need loving too
but they gotta pay!!!
As for android, best to go look at a device. Sadly, it functions quite similarly to amazon's test...sometimes fast, most times slow
And what does text based WP7 offers, thad android doesn`t?
balance
non fragmented hardware
driver specific code to run at optimum
me thinks that's enough
UbiMaiden said:
And what does text based WP7 offers, thad android doesn`t?
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Text based? At least WP7 doesn't use any terminal emulator
UbiMaiden said:
And what does text based WP7 offers, thad android doesn`t?
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Click to collapse
A clean, smooth, fast interface?
This thread should be closed before it gets out of control.
I have used Windows Mobile before moving to Android.
here is what I feel about Android...
Android is the new Windows Mobile 6.X
very powerful...but lacks cohesiveness. Unusable without custom ROMs
I am thinking of giving Windows phone 7 a try. Perhaps I am getting too old to keep flashing my phone every week.
Anyways... don't completely ignore Android. UI can be improved at any time. Next few years will be interesting to watch.
arkavat said:
Android is the new Windows Mobile 6.X
very powerful...but lacks cohesiveness. Unusable without custom ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^My thoughts exactly. Maybe those Microsoft WM developers jumped ship to Google
If you ever played with the Windows Mobile emulator before, it's the same experience. Very plain and boring. That's why OEMs spent so much time skin it and customize it.
What you see on the emulator is not the same on devices.
What's hilarious is that someone starts a thread like this, then some WP7 denizens wonder why there is "negativity" about WP7. What is the OP even saying? Such valuable information that will surely help someone out, the forums are better for it that's for sure. Pretty sad actually.
as per the topic (whatever it actually is), the problem with the WP7 UI is that it can't be changed. So you either love Metro forever, or you best get a phone where you can theme it a little or at least change the wallpaper. I'm not going to sit here and bash WP7 because even though it is missing essential features that I need as a power-user, it is still a nice OS and I can see that it might be right for some people. For me It's going to be Android, iOS, and WM6.5.x for at least a couple more years till WP7 matures.
arkavat said:
I have used Windows Mobile before moving to Android.
here is what I feel about Android...
Android is the new Windows Mobile 6.X
very powerful...but lacks cohesiveness. Unusable without custom ROMs
I am thinking of giving Windows phone 7 a try. Perhaps I am getting too old to keep flashing my phone every week.
Anyways... don't completely ignore Android. UI can be improved at any time. Next few years will be interesting to watch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true.
That being said, to some people the ability to load a custom rom is an advantage. If you want to "customize" WP7 you're SoL. If you don't like your manufacturer's Andorid skin, but love the hardware (as many Galaxy S users do), it's not hard to load a stock custom ROM on it and get on with your life.
In many cases people don't even need custom roms. They just install something like ADW or LauncherPro and that's good enough for them.
That being said, no software differences will make up for the huge gap in hadware between WP7 and Android phones. The WP7 hardware is just not... attractive... these days. Even normal consumers are asking about specs these days, because the tech press and even the normal press have been conditioning them to expect these things to improve over time, not drop back (as WP7 has... going from late 2010 hardware to late 2009 hardware if you "upgraded" from Android to WP7).
Another thing Anddoid has going for it is Apps. AmEx just came out with Serve.com and there's only an App for iOS and Android, for example. No WhatsApp for WP7. No Trillian for WP7. RIM is supposed to be releasing BBM for iOS and Android. There are tons of apps that either aren't available for WP7, or will never be available in the forseeable future due to API lockdown by Microsoft.
It's a terrible platform for an App-o-holic and moving form Android to WP7 I find myself carrying around both phones pretty much 100% of the time because there are lots of apps that simply aren't available on WP7. There still isn't an IM client. No HTML5 browser. No SP-to-SP messaging app, no Turn-by-Turn Navigation, still cannot attach videos to MMS or Email, etc.
Like I said in another thread. Looks only get you so far. A dumb blond may be hot as hell, but she's still dumb.
but then this leads to the question, what do you want to change? besides putting background image and font changing, much of the wp7 is extremely theme friendly. Now, granted, haven't found a way to change the square tiles but even then that's a wip...
And even with the tile shape not being able to be changed, there are plenty of options to create something amazing
domineus said:
but then this leads to the question, what do you want to change? besides putting background image and font changing, much of the wp7 is extremely theme friendly. Now, granted, haven't found a way to change the square tiles but even then that's a wip...
And even with the tile shape not being able to be changed, there are plenty of options to create something amazing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The size of the tiles? Make the App List a a grid instead of a list?
Change the default search provider in the browser?
Lower the touchscreen sensitivity and/or threshold for panning so that moving my finger 1 millimeter won't make the phone switch panes.
A lot of stuff people would want to change are impossible becuase Microsoft has crafted the OS in such a way that even skilled developers cannot compete with their stock apps (better browsers, other music players, better email clients (with conversation view and unified inbox, e.g.).