Suggested thread from the one over iPhone because we were getting off topic. What are going to be the advantages of WP7 over Android that will keep everyone from switching to Google's open platform?
Integration with Microsoft's services.
I use them a lot and I like them, but they're not enough to keep me on WM. They will, unfortunately, also not be enough to make me get WP7. At least not until all of WP7's restrictions are lifted and I can find equivalents for all the apps I have on my phone now.
Other than that, unfortunately, there is nothing that WP7 does better than Android, from what I can see. I prefer Android's UI (tiles are just widgets, but widgets are better) and of course I prefer it's openness, customizability and the unlimited possibilities.
vangrieg said:
It's incomplete.
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If you want notes and tasks, yes. But there are apps for that. Everything else is there.
But people are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones. They don't ask "what OS does this phone run". They ask "what can this phone do".
If they need Exchange, they will get a phone with Exchange.
Not on all devices. Not well on all devices.
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Right. But I'll repeat myself:
People are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones. They don't ask "what OS does this phone run". They ask "what can this phone do".
If they need multitouch, they will buy a phone with multitouch.
Yes, we geeks ask "what OS does this phone run". But not normal people. We geeks can talk about fragmentation. Normal people will never think about that, they'll just ask "can this phone do what I want?".
Fragmentation is a non-issue. And it's not only bad. Android running on more phones means more customers, means more people buying apps, means more developers, means more apps, means more customers..................
1. Only high-end devices, which means apps won't be made for the least common denominator.
2. Native full multiple account Exchange support.
3. Built-in Office stuff, with Sharepoint (wow!)
4. MS-supplied drivers, made together with chip manufacturer, no crappy stuff from HTC or whoever.
5. Integration of web services (including third-party ones) in a meaningful way - contacts go to contacts, pictures to device picture library, without doing everything in a separate app - this way even I'll be using Facebook.
6. Real OTA updates, for all devices, because of a truly uniform platform.
7. Awesome UI, not a bland iPhone/WM third party launcher rip-off, both in terms of looks (subjective) and in terms of functionality (OS level widgets with rich APIs allowing to update text, graphics and animation). Hubs are an awesome idea too. Lots of text, easy to read/see what you need to tap. Everything I ever dreamed of in a UI actually.
8. Dev tools making creating awesome UI consistent with overall OS very easy.
9. Absolutely best video codec support out of the box, with perspective OTA additions for all devices.
10. Gorgeous desktop software for syncing stuff - Zune software is truly amazing - fast, flexible, great looking, I couldn't believe it were from Microsoft.
These are just a few things that came to mind immediately.
vangrieg said:
1. Only high-end devices, which means apps won't be made for the least common denominator.
2. Native full multiple account Exchange support.
3. Built-in Office stuff, with Sharepoint (wow!)
4. MS-supplied drivers, made together with chip manufacturer, no crappy stuff from HTC or whoever.
5. Integration of web services (including third-party ones) in a meaningful way - contacts go to contacts, pictures to device picture library, without doing everything in a separate app - this way even I'll be using Facebook.
6. Real OTA updates, for all devices, because of a truly uniform platform.
7. Awesome UI, not a bland iPhone/WM third party launcher rip-off, both in terms of looks (subjective) and in terms of functionality (OS level widgets with rich APIs allowing to update text, graphics and animation). Hubs are an awesome idea too. Lots of text, easy to read/see what you need to tap. Everything I ever dreamed of in a UI actually.
8. Dev tools making creating awesome UI consistent with overall OS very easy.
9. Absolutely best video codec support out of the box, with perspective OTA additions for all devices.
10. Gorgeous desktop software for syncing stuff - Zune software is truly amazing - fast, flexible, great looking, I couldn't believe it were from Microsoft.
These are just a few things that came to mind immediately.
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Damn, great list! I couldn't of said it better myself. But you forgot Xbox live support and acheivements!
1. Since the Market shows only compatible apps, apps do NOT have to be made for the least common denominator, like on WM
2. This is there on Android
3.
4.
5. This is actually better on Android with Sense.
6. Doesn't matter. People own one device, they don't care if others get OTA updates (talking about normal people)
7. The UI looks VERY ineffiecient. VERY VERY inefficient. Wasted space everywhere (why are the programs a freakin' list?! And why so few tiles per screen? That makes it VERY hard to get to apps). Android's UI is much better.
8. Dev tools are VERY restricted. Awesome UI yes, but no native APIs = Awesone looking apps with no functionality = useless
9. Not true. Some Android devices have better codec support OOTB.
10.
I'll agree with the rest, where I've not written something.
That's against:
1. Multitasking, enables lots of possibilities (streaming radio, IM clients and other clients, navigation)
2. Copy&paste
3. Customizability (not only looks, but also easily change the default apps for everything)
4. Apps, apps, apps - a huge market
5. A native development kit - enables much richer functionality for apps
6. More efficient UI
7. You don't have to pay for high-end phones and can still get lots of the functionality
8. Google services (hey, they're not THAT bad)
9. File system access - enables richer functionality for apps and removes the requirement for proprietary syncing methods (or emailind things to oneself ).
Sethos II said:
If you want notes and tasks, yes. But there are apps for that. Everything else is there.
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2.1 in Nexus One doesn't do Calendar sync. Only with Google Calendar which I don't give a damn about. Third party apps do exist but they have limitations and their own problems; plus I don't want to rely on third parties (neither HTC nor things called Moxier) for this critical functionality.
Sethos II said:
But people are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones.
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Most Android phones suck. Nexus One is a great device except default UI and missing Exchange stuff; Desire has HTC built Exchange stuff but is the best one out there. Evo will be a serious contender when it comes out in a GSM incarnation, I'll take a close look at it.
Sethos II said:
Fragmentation is a non-issue.
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It is. Yes, there are benefits to hardware variety (especially for Google), but the downsides exist as well. They are well known and documented, so no need to repeat the same stuff over and over. You can choose to ignore them but it doesn't change the fact that they exist. Froyo will try to address it. I'll take a look at Android then, again.
2.1 in Nexus One doesn't do Calendar sync. Only with Google Calendar which I don't give a damn about.
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Strange. Mine does.
Most Android phones suck.
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At least you get more than one. You usually buy only one phone, so why deos it matter to you whether other suck? Doesn't matter at all.
no need to repeat the same stuff over and over
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So far, the only thing that's been documented is that it is in fact NOT an issue:
If Google really thought there was a problem, they'd force restrictions. The plan described there makes sense, but doesn't adress the "issue" at all, except for Google's apps.
In reality, there isn't an issue. If a certain app doesn't run on your phone, it won't show up in the market. Phone upgrades usually go from lower to higher spec'd hardware, which means most likely more apps will run on the newer phone than on the old one.
The developer interest in Android also shows, that developers aren't too concerned. Developers are much more concerned about the restrictions they find on WP7, than about the fragmentation of Android.
Those restrictions make many projects impossible, whereas the fragmentation just means a bit more work to do.
Also, if they don't force restrictions, it means more phones will run Android. That means more people buying software, which makes up for the additional work developers have to do.
The only "issue" I can see is people buying cheap phones and then complaining that it doesn't work as well as the high-end Android phone they keep hearing about. But those are stupid people, anyway.
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Now you can keep repeating yourself, but even if you keep saying it a thousand times, fragmentation won't become an issue.
Just because you're repeating it doesn't mean it will become true.
Sethos II said:
1. Since the Market shows only compatible apps, apps do NOT have to be made for the least common denominator, like on WM
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It's the same with WM. You see only a fraction of apps in Marketplace (granted, this is a joke of an appstore, but still). The problem is, when the overwhelming majority of devices are crap, that's what normal devs will target. And that's what they do.
Sethos II said:
2. This is there on Android
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No.
Sethos II said:
5. This is actually better on Android with Sense.
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Not true. With Sense (which is a third party thing to begin with), you get what's built in. In WP7 you can have third party additional services hook into OS stuff in a very smooth way, way beyond the homescreen.
Sethos II said:
6. Doesn't matter. People own one device, they don't care if others get OTA updates (talking about normal people)
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Right. Thing is, when Android 2.1 came out, how many devices get the OTA upgrade? What if the one device I own doesn't get it? If it will, will it work 100%? Will my hardware support features in 2.3?
Sethos II said:
Android's UI is much better.
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I'll leave this without comment. I said that's the UI I could only dream of - it just implements almost everything I wanted.
Sethos II said:
8. Dev tools are VERY restricted. Awesome UI yes, but no native APIs = Awesone looking apps with no functionality = useless
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Well, it's not "useless", but no arguing it's incredibly limited. Me, I need an ebook reader and a satnav app. No use in WP7 without this stuff and copy/paste, I'm just not buying it. It's in a way like early Android without NDK, only much better in terms of UI frameworks and dev tools. We'll see how it evolves, it's a big uncertainty now. I personally think that most of the limitations originate in the very simple fact that SL3 just doesn't have the necessary functionality, while SL4 isn't ready yet and therefore couldn't be ported. Among other problems, current SL doesn't have methods to interact with native code. I suspect that this, rather than some religious principles, is the reason for not getting much of the stuff needed. So, in a nutshell, Android's APIs are arguably better in most areas apart from UI. Yet WP7 is hard to beat in this department.
Sethos II said:
9. Not true. Some Android devices have better codec support OOTB.
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You missed the point. You get codec support from Samsung but not HTC, just like it is with WM. There's little to no chance you'll get it from Google.
Sethos II said:
why deos it matter to you whether other suck?
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Well, because I personally don't see a phone I would want to buy. That's one hell of a reason for me.
Sethos II said:
Strange. Mine does.
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Care to comment all this stuff?
It's the same with WM. You see only a fraction of apps in Marketplace (granted, this is a joke of an appstore, but still). The problem is, when the overwhelming majority of devices are crap, that's what normal devs will target. And that's what they do.
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No, it's not. You're completely wrong here.
Devs make the apps they want. They want a high quality graphics game, they make it. They want an app that runs on every device, they make it. No problem there!
No.
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Yes.
n WP7 you can have third party additional services hook into OS stuff in a very smooth way, way beyond the homescreen.
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No. That's how it should be, but it's not. The dev tools don't allow enough integration.
Do you have an Android? If not, shut up. Cause I have one.
What if the one device I own doesn't get it?
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If you're not a geek, you don't care. Most people are not geeks. No problem here!
I'll leave this without comment. I said that's the UI I could only dream of - it just implements almost everything I wanted.
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Lots of inefficiently used space is all you wanted? LOL
Well, it's not "useless", but no arguing it's incredibly limited.
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Exactly. That's why apps on Android will be much more functional. Maybe they don't look as beautiful, but they look good enough. WP7 will get lots of beautiful, awesome looking fart apps.
You missed the point. You get codec support from Samsung but not HTC, just like it is with WM.
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No, I didn't miss the point at all. Fact is, and I'm repeating myself again here, that people buy phones, not operating systems. They don't care whether the codec support comes from Google or HTC, they only care whether their phone can play their video or not.
Also, I don't see why Google wouldn't add codec suppot.
Well, because I personally don't see a phone I would want to buy. That's one hell of a reason for me.
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What phone do you have? I'm sure my Nexus ca easily compete with it hardware-wise!
Care to comment all this stuff?
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Don't know. I think I've downloaded a plugin or so. But I know it works on my phone.
EDIT: Ah well. That's what I did: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=5553563&postcount=2
I see it has to be rooted, because it wants the file in /system.
Well, I give you the points for that, but nevertheless, it works on mine
Plus, as I said, people buy devices. If they want Exchane, they ask "can this phone do Exchange" and if it's a Hero, Desire, Legend... then they get a "yes" and buy the device. I don't see any issue here.
The HTC apps are even better than the integration you get on WP7, or, at least as good. They merge your contacts together from Exchange, Google, SIM card, Facebook,...... just like WP7, but you get more control.
The Exchange mail inbox with HTC Sense is also better, or at least as good, as the Exchange inbox on WP7.
I really don't see an advantage for WP7 here. The HTC Sense stuff is just as good, or better.
Sethos II said:
Do you have an Android? If not, shut up. Cause I have one.
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Great argument. I won't. Shut up yourself if you want.
Sethos II said:
That's why apps on Android will be much more functional. Maybe they don't look as beautiful, but they look good enough. WP7 will get lots of beautiful, awesome looking fart apps.
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No arguing about functionality, at least in early WP7. I've already said I won't buy it for this reason. Yet it doesn't negate other benefits, including UI. And most Android apps look like crap to my taste.
Sethos II said:
No, I didn't miss the point at all. Fact is, and I'm repeating myself again here, that people buy phones, not operating systems.
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Yes you did miss the point. I can only get codec support if I buy Samsung phones. And I don't want them. I want an HTC Evo. It doesn't have codecs built in, and there are no decent third party video players yet. That's a drawback of the platform. WP7 will have the edge here. Whether it's important for you or not is a different matter.
Sethos II said:
What phone do you have? I'm sure my Nexus ca easily compete with it hardware-wise!
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HD2. Until I see a GSM Evo I personally don't care for what else Android has.
Sethos II said:
I really don't see an advantage for WP7 here. The HTC Sense stuff is just as good, or better.
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I do. I've had enough experience with HTC software to not want it. Ever. You may argue they magically turned into a great software company when they began developing for Android, but I won't believe. Native support for Exchange will always be preferrable to me. For others as well, I know it.
I've had enough experience with HTC software to not want it.
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On Android?
If not, don't judge it. Cause HTC's Android software is fine.
Their WM software only sucks because WM sucks.
HD2. Until I see a GSM Evo I personally don't care for what else Android has.
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Hm... let's see... my Nexus has the same hardware... except for the screen... which, frankly, looks much better than the HD2's (I had the HD2 before). It's also lighter, not such a fat brick. Still I prefer the HD2's Design, but that's not worth anything.
So I was right, your WM phone doesn't have better hardware...
Yes you did miss the point.
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No you missed the point. You buy phones, not operating systems. And by the way, starting from the Desire, HTC's phones get the same codec support.
Great argument. I won't. Shut up yourself if you want.
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You think you know more about Android, but you don't even have one! Really?! If you don't know something, don't talk about it.
Sethos II said:
You think you know more about Android, but you don't even have one! How stupid is that? Really, if you don't know something, don't talk about it.
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Why do Android fanboys have to be rude? I didn't offend you in any way. Yes I do know something about Android, even though you have more experience and deeper knowledge. Some of the things are common knowledge though, you don't have to own an Android device to know that none of them offer 4.3" screens. Fragmentation is a more general phenomenon than Android itself, and there's enough written and said about it, including acknowledgements by Google themselves. There's a lot of well documented information like lack of native Exchange support, and so on. So please let's not resort to trolling.
Why do Android fanboys have to be rude?
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I'm not rude, but this is true!
Don't pretend you know more about Android than someone who is actually using one.
Even "common knowledge" is often nonsense!
And please, stop talking about "native Exchange support". It does have native Exchange support, peroid.
You can say "no calendar without rooting" (which also is not true for HTC devices), but stop denying that it doesn't have native Exchange support. It even supports multiple Exchange accounts! And on an HTC device, I can have my Exchange, including the calendar, pushed to my phone, PLUS my GMail pushed. Try that on a Windows Mobile phone!
I'm not pretending to know more about Android than you do. Never even tried.
Well, somehow you did.
Anyway, the iPhone is getting multiple Exchange account support.
I don't know, but I think this is all just embarrassing for Microsoft. I mean, yes, WP7 will also have that, but when? End of the year? Come on! WP7 should have been out one year ago!
And despite that it took so long, they couldn't even figure out multitasking or notifications! I mean, they had the iPhone, the Pre, Android and so on to copy from, but they even fail at copying the others!
Oh wow... now they've even announced a gaming network... OMG. This is it for WP7. How embarrassing...
Related
Did a search and couldn't find anything but it appears that when the Guys at Skype decided to discontinue Skype for Windows Mobile they also decided that they wouldn't be developing for WP7 any time soon.
David Flynn at apcmag.com said:
Citing a second-rate “user experience” compared to the iPhone and Android, Skype admits it has no immediate plans to release an app for Windows Phone 7.
Skype is working full steam ahead on an app for the iPad and the next-gen iPhone, but users of Windows Phone 7 will have to take a number and wait… and wait… and wait.
Skype’s Asia Pacific Vice-President Dan Neary says that Microsoft’s forthcoming smartphone OS is not a priority when it comes to mobile platforms.
“We try and focus not only where the need is but where the best experience is, and we feel that the best areas for us to develop are on the operating systems that we currently support – iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry and now Android” Neary told APC during a press briefing in Sydney today. “We simply feel that those operating systems (have) a much better user experience”.
Neary said that while a Skype app for Windows Phone 7 “is on the roadmap, the question is how quickly we’re going to get to it. We feel that we are best best deployed on other operating systems (for now) and we’ll see how the space evolves.”
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article here
screw skype then, does windows mobile messenger support voice chat?
C'mon now
The main part of this article was about Skype abandoning development for the current WinMobile (6.5). They were talking about which platforms were currently supported. Why would they be talking about an app for an OS that hasn't been released yet.
lordcanti86 said:
The main part of this article was about Skype abandoning development for the current WinMobile (6.5). They were talking about which platforms were currently supported. Why would they be talking about an app for an OS that hasn't been released yet.
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err...I interpreted it differently...to me it sounds like they're not going to bother for a while.
Neary said that while a Skype app for Windows Phone 7 “is on the roadmap, the question is how quickly we’re going to get to it. We feel that we are best best deployed on other operating systems (for now) and we’ll see how the space evolves.”
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coupled with
Skype’s Asia Pacific Vice-President Dan Neary says that Microsoft’s forthcoming smartphone OS is not a priority when it comes to mobile platforms.
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..sound to me like they'll wait to see how well the platform takes off before considering beginning development.
welki1979 said:
err...I interpreted it differently...to me it sounds like they're not going to bother for a while.
coupled with
..sound to me like they'll wait to see how well the platform takes off before considering beginning development.
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Which is fine. Either wp7 will be successful and they will port it over ~3 months after release. Or wp7 will fail and it wouldn't matter either way if skype existed or not.
As an aside, anyone came across any information about kin sales?
gom99 said:
As an aside, anyone came across any information about kin sales?
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Actually yes, but its 3rd party info. I have a friend at that Carphone place... they've had a briefing on the Kin range and are expecting units to be released to them late july apparently.
I tried to get some sort of confirmation of this but as yet all I've managed to find out came from one of the shop staff who made a comment about them being late or something. (not really sure it was mumbled quietly as he walked off)
Suprisingly enough though there is nothing on the GSM Arena site despite the fact that the HTC Mondrian is listed there (a WP7 phone).
gom99 said:
Which is fine. Either wp7 will be successful and they will port it over ~3 months after release. Or wp7 will fail and it wouldn't matter either way if skype existed or not.
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And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.
shaundalglish said:
And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.
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The problem is that trying to maintain backwards compatibility with all those apps that were designed for stylus input and resistive touch screens was what allowed the competition to get so far ahead in the first place. The only thing they could have done was to start over because that forces developers to redevelop apps that are designed for finger input, compactive touch screens, and work better with the new OS.
shaundalglish said:
And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.
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Maybe you should look at the videos from MWC and MIX 2010, then you'll see that there are some quite amazing apps in development. They demonstrated a Netflix, an Associated Press, a Seesmic, a Shazam and MLS app and a bunch of games. You can expect apps from EA Mobile, Fandango, Pandora, Foursquare, IMDB, Namco, PopCap Games, Photobucket and SPB Software just to name a few (that list is a bit longer than that) and because the developer tools are already available I expect many many more apps than that.
"Amazing"? lol yeah if bling bling is all you want...
shaundalglish said:
"Amazing"? lol yeah if bling bling is all you want...
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So Netflix is bling bling? Or a game like The Harvester is also just bling bling? What about Shazam?
Oh come on... Shazam is always the first app that gets ported to any new OS, because there's nothing complicated about it. Games are of course just bling bling. And 96% of the world's population couldn't care less about Netflix.
I just prefer functionality, that's all. WP7 is not going to deliver this.
shaundalglish said:
I just prefer functionality, that's all. WP7 is not going to deliver this.
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You mean to say that you believe it's not going to deliver the functionality that you deem to be important. It's still going to be a great communication, social networking, maps/navigation, multimedia and gaming platform and that's what most people want from their smartphones these days. I agree with you that WP7 is missing quite a bit of features, but I don't think those missing features are deal breakers for the average consumer.
No it's not going to deliver a lot of functionality at all, regardless of which features I personally use.
shaundalglish said:
No it's not going to deliver a lot of functionality at all, regardless of which features I personally use.
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what features are those?
Also calling something a fart app or bling bling is misleading. The majority of apps people actually consume fall into that category.
Not that I disagree with what you're trying to say but many of the advanced apps of windows mobile are just hacks to correct the lacking default user experience of wm. I do think you're being too hardlined though.
but I definitely don't like some decisions they're making with some of the current advanced features. eg: file system, data storage, side loading.
The problems as I see it is that the APIs is to poor at the moment.
No sockets support -> Some apps will have serious problems, e.g. Skype.
No way to access Bluetooth.
Very limited access to media.
This are the main things that make me doubt on this platform. I'm fine with it being locked down, just not too much.
Should we really be bothered by such trivial issue?There are better alternative apps like Fring and Nimbuzz that perfectly connects to the skype node,allowing you to still skype and be skyped.
blackrider said:
Should we really be bothered by such trivial issue?There are better alternative apps like Fring and Nimbuzz that perfectly connects to the skype node,allowing you to still skype and be skyped.
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Except Fring won't be possible in WP7 either. Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol, and implementing it would require ability to manipulate sockets. One could possibly implement an http version of a client that would connect to a central server and then the server would communicate with other Skype users, but that would be difficult, costly and ultimately useless because it would only serve as a temporary workaround until socket support comes to WP7 APIs.
vangrieg said:
Except Fring won't be possible in WP7 either. Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol, and implementing it would require ability to manipulate sockets. One could possibly implement an http version of a client that would connect to a central server and then the server would communicate with other Skype users, but that would be difficult, costly and ultimately useless because it would only serve as a temporary workaround until socket support comes to WP7 APIs.
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Socket support for WP7 will come later but is not in initial release.
havox22 said:
Socket support for WP7 will come later but is not in initial release.
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Hopefully they'll hurry up, since I'm fear that I (and many others) will stand without good/any music support.
I'm a big user of Spotify, a streaming music service, which I'm sure will require Sockets to work, because it's Superior responsiveness is based on a P2P protocol. Before anyone say anything else, the phones won't share the media, but they'll download from desktop clients.
Hopefully they'll release some custom version anyway. Responsiveness won't be a problem on Mobile devices where most people have the "important" stuff in Offline cache anyways.
What do you think about it?
well does any knows what's confirmed in android 3.0?
not really..
so how does one compare?
Now WebOS 2.0 is a different story
vetvito said:
Now WebOS 2.0 is a different story
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How so? Does it come on a phone somebody wants to buy?
Release wise or the OS themselves? We'll have to wait until all three get released. As long as they all perform well then it will most likely be all down to personal preferences.
vangrieg said:
How so? Does it come on a phone somebody wants to buy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. That's what really holding this OS back, however things may change next year.
To me UI isn't Google's strong suit. Google is good at minimalism, Chrome is a good example. But if it's anything more intricate & complicated then Google's UIs become less intuitive. Google Buzz, Wave, even youtube and google.com itself can be an utter disaster at times. I don't have experience with G-Mail or Orkut to comment.
Only recently has MS start providing better UI expeirences. Aero, MS Ribbons (highly debated but I like that it's touch friendly), Zune/MS Games UIs, Metro. The Entertainment Division does seem to be leading the way in terms of cutting edge UIs. But they're ahead of Google in that department.
I won't say it's impossible for Google to make a cutting edge UI, I'm sure they have alot of talent in that area, I just haven't seen it translated into a product line yet.
Edit: I assume this is a UI & integration discussion, because in terms of raw features Android already beats wp7.
gom99 said:
To me UI isn't Google's strong suit. Google is good at minimalism, Chrome is a good example. But if it's anything more intricate & complicated then Google's UIs become less intuitive. Google Buzz, Wave, even youtube and google.com itself can be an utter disaster at times. I don't have experience with G-Mail or Orkut to comment.
Only recently has MS start providing better UI expeirences. Aero, MS Ribbons (highly debated but I like that it's touch friendly), Zune/MS Games UIs, Metro. The Entertainment Division does seem to be leading the way in terms of cutting edge UIs. But they're ahead of Google in that department.
I won't say it's impossible for Google to make a cutting edge UI, I'm sure they have alot of talent in that area, I just haven't seen it translated into a product line yet.
Edit: I assume this is a UI & integration discussion, because in terms of raw features Android already beats wp7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're hired the WebOS designers (after they left Palm following the takeover by HP) so presumably they will front the UI design.
i really don't get people saying Android 3.0 is going to be better than anything on the market. Well show me how it interacts, what changed, did UI get better? Just do not hope it will be, show us soem proof. I can't find anywhere that shows 3.0. To my understanding, 3.0 is just an updated version that will be suitable for tablets.
^ No proof of anything right now for 3.0. You can find tablets running every version of Android. The Samsung Galaxy Tab looks nice.
JC_Agga said:
i really don't get people saying Android 3.0 is going to be better than anything on the market. Well show me how it interacts, what changed, did UI get better? Just do not hope it will be, show us soem proof. I can't find anywhere that shows 3.0. To my understanding, 3.0 is just an updated version that will be suitable for tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And probably incompatible with current handsets. Not too long ago people were drooling over the Hero, legend, moment but lets see if those devices get the latest android OS. No thanks, I've been held hostage by HTC long enough, dont want my device obsolete right after it leaves the factory.
vetvito said:
^ No proof of anything right now for 3.0. You can find tablets running every version of Android. The Samsung Galaxy Tab looks nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm starting to see reports that Gingerbread isn't even 3.0 as most of us assumed. It's saying that Gingerbread is another 2.x, and HoneyComb will be the 3.0. It's still all hearsay though.
btw...who exactly is the one with a sweet-tooth at google?
I can't wait to see both Win Phone 7 and Gingerbread completed.
Mobile operating systems are so diverse, complex and multifaceted these days that you just cannot say one "beats" the other. It all depends on personal preferences and requirements.
FreeDee said:
Mobile operating systems are so diverse, complex and multifaceted these days that you just cannot say one "beats" the other. It all depends on personal preferences and requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/signed
10chars
This thread will beat others?
Why everything has to be competition?
What is better?
What is faster?
Both OS will have it´s good points and bad as well, it will be just matter of preferences like all in life
Nobody knows what Android 3.0 will be.
But Android 2.1 is better than WP7 and probably Android 3.0 will be better than Android 2.1 - so Android 3.0 will be better than WP7, definitely.
Fermat said:
Nobody knows what Android 3.0 will be.
But Android 2.1 is better than WP7 and probably Android 3.0 will be better than Android 2.1 - so Android 3.0 will be better than WP7, definitely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard to say that. Besides, bring some facts/arguments why you think it's better.
a FACT is that Silverlight/XNA development is better than Java devolpment. The majority of the developers will agree with me, because of several different reasons. Examples of these reasons are the efficiency of the language, options to port the code and the software used (Visual Studio simply is great).
Another FACT is that WP7 will not suffer from fragmentation like the old WM or like what's happening to android now.
The UI is 100% personal preference, but after using the emulator, seeing demos, and using android phones myself (hero with custom ROM, Desire) I prefer WP7 by far.
Can't say anything useful about battery life until we've got some retail models launched, but I think MS has spent a great deal optimising that as its important for the user experience.
Last but not least, the integration with the OS is excellent on WP7 - acces to Bing Maps, the phone's theme, the zune hub and more just adds a LOT of possibilities. You gotta admit its really sweet how you can instantly access all your imaging-apps (like failmakers/captioning, color effects, etc) directly when you're viewing a picture.
As you might've noticed by my post, I'm way more interested in WP7 than android right now.
The facts/arguments are spread all over this forum, no need to start this discussion again.
WP7 does have some nice things, like the beautiful (IMO) UI, but all in all, Android 2.1 is far superior.
(fragmentation doesn't hurt anyone, btw. - it only gives iPhone/WP7 fanboys something to talk about when they can't find better arguments against Android)
Oh and btw. I prefer Silverlight over Java. It's much better. In theory that is, because in the case of WP7, it's crippled by stupid restrictions.
The fact that you mention integration with the OS tells me that you don't know much about Android. It offers much more possibilities and deeper integration than WP7. Microsoft is talking about integration all the time, but that doesn't change the fact that it's been done before and much better by Google.
(yes, all the stuff like direct access to imaging apps is there and much more)
Fermat said:
<snip/>
Oh and btw. I prefer Silverlight over Java. It's much better. In theory that is, because in the case of WP7, it's crippled by stupid restrictions.
<snip/>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It restricts stupid? That seems like is should be a good thing. Does Android allow / embrace stupid then?
READ this article BEFORE you post to this thread!
http://www.theunwired.net/?item=tho...ons-and-live-tiles-anywhere-in-the-cloud&5669
Glanceable information? No jumping in and out of apps? Less stop and stare? Integration?
Everything just a big, fat lie.
Here's the truth: Nothing in WP7 is new, nothing is different.
You will still jump in and out of apps.
You will still not be able to see information "at a glance".
WP7 will just be a grid of static, oversized icons, like iOS.
From The Unwired:
But rather than that, Windows Phone 7 customers have to jump in and out of the apps - to get status updates; just like on pre-Windows Phone 7 smartphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except for Android, of course.
Yes, there is an OS that doesn't just talk about "integration" and "information at a glance".
There is an OS that does it. And it's not WP7! It's Android.
WP7 is just lies and hot air. Google does all the things Microsoft only talks about but can't do.
Do you need a hug?
I could use one, yes.
EDIT: Wait... maybe not.
I do agree that Windows Phone 7 does have a few issues with its lack of features but it does look like a good OS. I would personally like to see the live widgets do a bit more as they don't really do much as I would have to go into the Facebook app to look at status updates etc.
The goal is to get you to use LIVE for everything. If not Live then use what's integrated in the phone.
Another thing Hubs will be rare. Carrier hubs and OEM hubs that's it.
ohh here we go again
Uhm... the fact that you give no information? the fact that you just started saying ANDROID ANDROID ANDROID, tells me you should go to the Android section... I love Android a lot too, but Windows Phone 7 just has something I have been missing, and that's something called QUALITY, with so much open source, Android feels locked down and broken, WP7 looks polished and well built. Of course people as of right now dislike it:
NO TETHER, NO FLASH(well guess what iPhone doesn't have that either lmfao), NO THIS APP, etc. etc.
IT IS BRAND NEW! And with this many things at LAUNCH! It's gotten a bigger start than Android!
So just stop trying to kill an OS because your **** is so hard for Android, give other platforms a chance.
Smokexz said:
Uhm... the fact that you give no information? the fact that you just started saying ANDROID ANDROID ANDROID, tells me you should go to the Android section... I love Android a lot too, but Windows Phone 7 just has something I have been missing, and that's something called QUALITY, with so much open source, Android feels locked down and broken, WP7 looks polished and well built. Of course people as of right now dislike it:
NO TETHER, NO FLASH(well guess what iPhone doesn't have that either lmfao), NO THIS APP, etc. etc.
IT IS BRAND NEW! And with this many things at LAUNCH! It's gotten a bigger start than Android!
So just stop trying to kill an OS because your **** is so hard for Android, give other platforms a chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Standing Ovation*
Smokexz said:
So just stop trying to kill an OS because your **** is so hard for Android, give other platforms a chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funniest post of the day. I can't stop laughing LOL.
OP's a troll..
Phone Titan said:
I do agree that Windows Phone 7 does have a few issues with its lack of features but it does look like a good OS. I would personally like to see the live widgets do a bit more as they don't really do much as I would have to go into the Facebook app to look at status updates etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no you wouldnt jus go to peoples hub to see this information
I think the OP is missing the point. Yes you have to launch apps for certains things - all phones have to no matter what OS. It would be truely magic to be able to get to do something or see something without tapping or launching something.
The whole glance and go premise is related to the home screen with the hubs and live tiles. Its the equivalent of the old win mo today screen which tells you all the necessary info on one screen as soon as you unlock the phone. Something the iPhone can't do right now.
OP, you need to chill. WP7 is brand new and was a bit rushed. This is Microsoft's new baby, however, and it will be continually supported and updated. Just watch.
Smokexz said:
Uhm... the fact that you give no information? the fact that you just started saying ANDROID ANDROID ANDROID, tells me you should go to the Android section... I love Android a lot too, but Windows Phone 7 just has something I have been missing, and that's something called QUALITY, with so much open source, Android feels locked down and broken, WP7 looks polished and well built. Of course people as of right now dislike it:
NO TETHER, NO FLASH(well guess what iPhone doesn't have that either lmfao), NO THIS APP, etc. etc.
IT IS BRAND NEW! And with this many things at LAUNCH! It's gotten a bigger start than Android!
So just stop trying to kill an OS because your **** is so hard for Android, give other platforms a chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*applause*
Don't forget that OPs is a Android fanboy and Troll.
Omega Ra said:
*Standing Ovation*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two for the ovation
Smokexz said:
Uhm... the fact that you give no information? the fact that you just started saying ANDROID ANDROID ANDROID, tells me you should go to the Android section... I love Android a lot too, but Windows Phone 7 just has something I have been missing, and that's something called QUALITY, with so much open source, Android feels locked down and broken, WP7 looks polished and well built. Of course people as of right now dislike it:
NO TETHER, NO FLASH(well guess what iPhone doesn't have that either lmfao), NO THIS APP, etc. etc.
IT IS BRAND NEW! And with this many things at LAUNCH! It's gotten a bigger start than Android!
So just stop trying to kill an OS because your **** is so hard for Android, give other platforms a chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft has intentionally not included services and featuers which are standard. They are either being stubborn, or they are doing the ol' apple trick of trickling features through "New OS Versions". WP7 has been in development for TWO YEARS, there's no excuse for glaring oversights regarding things that are more less standards and expected.
WP7 lacks saves states for applications, that's inexcusable.
There's no background services. For small developers this basically rules out developing for WP7 without having a lackluster application. Anybody that wants to provide HUB updates to apps will need an extensive infrastructure in the cloud as push is the only solution.
It feels like MS is solving the "fart app" issue of android and ios through pure class division. Any worthwhile application will need a developer with deep pockets to have servers providing push.
I won't deny the fact that the OS is cohesive, fluid, and very beautiful. Once you step out of MS applications things start to fall apart.
It really isn't revolutionary at all. Microsoft is said to spend over $1 Billion in advertising for WP7. WP7 is all about hype and marketing without any substance.
All the apps look the same. Everything has the same structure. It is a bunch of same.
It is a pity that Microsoft actually HAD TO PAY DEVELOPERS to develop apps for WP7.
tboy2000 said:
The whole glance and go premise is related to the home screen with the hubs and live tiles. Its the equivalent of the old win mo today screen which tells you all the necessary info on one screen as soon as you unlock the phone. Something the iPhone can't do right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about reading before you post?
The whole issue is that the "glance and go premise" will not work because live tiles do not work.
The only tiles that will be "live" are the built in ones from Microsoft. Almost no third party developer will make use of live tiles, because there are huge costs associated with that - setting up a server etc.
What that means is that WP7 will not be "glanceable". In fact, it even will hardly present more information than iOS!
In the end, WP7 will be a grid of (huge) icons, just like iOS. The whole glance and go premise is nothing but a big, fat lie.
@Smokexz
Next time read before you post, moron. I gave you a full article.
I'm not talking about features like multitasking that have been beaten to death. Now read, think, then post.
JCopernicus said:
Any worthwhile application will need a developer with deep pockets to have servers providing push.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
crow26 said:
How about reading before you post?
The whole issue is that the "glance and go premise" will not work because live tiles do not work.
The only tiles that will be "live" are the built in ones from Microsoft. Almost no third party developer will make use of live tiles, because there are huge costs associated with that - setting up a server etc.
What that means is that WP7 will not be "glanceable". In fact, it even will hardly present more information than iOS!
In the end, WP7 will be a grid of (huge) icons, just like iOS. The whole glance and go premise is nothing but a big, fat lie.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this the same kind of lie that apple told about how the iphone 4 will make phone calls, without adding it requires it to be held a certain way or needs a case? Just because there is a cost to implement live tiles doesnt make MS's statements lies, just means the uptake wont be as quick. But no worries, thanks to your news flash I'm off to give all my data to google and the hordes of dodgy devs mining personal data, that'll show MS!
I think i read somewhere that Microsoft hosts servers for push applications for free. If that is true then there is no problem for developers to make such apps.
WP7 UI experience is just plain AWESOME. If only MS gets Mango on all current and future WP7 devices before this year end, its gonna be a real threat to Android and iOS.
-proud owner of a Samsung Focus (7.0.7004.0)
update::
Ok so why do I think WP7 is awesome compared to Android? Well for starters the concept of Hubs is amazing. The Music Hub has all my songs, videos and even links to 3rd party Music/Video Apps right in one place. The Android Music Player seems like junk compared to the Zune player, it even automatically finds the currently playing songs Artist image and sets it as the background for the entire Zune Hub which although seems trivial but it really adds a nice touch.
The Office Hub does not even have a comparable application on Android. The mango update is gonna make it even better with skydrive integration built rt into the hub.
Xbox live integration with its achievements and gamer points really increases the replay value of games. Although one thing which i currently find annoying is the high minimum price of the xbox live games, some of which cost $2 more than their iPhone counterparts. This may be due in part becoz WP7 is a newer platform so as it matures and the adoption rate increases prices will reduce.
overall the UI really seems to be built for the consumer and is really easy to use. from what I have seen of Android it just seems like a marriage between Symbian/WinMo. Sure you can customize the hell out of it and currently it has a lot of features which WP7 lacks but IMO only features do not determine the success of a platform coz Symbian/WMO had most of these features half a decade ago. And frankly the average consumer does not give a damn about modding/ ROMS/ features etc.
.....hmm have to get back to work now, will update this asap ....unless the thread gets locked
Well, I recommend you get your NoDo fix now...it is super easy, and works using either the data method or wifi...
kapanak said:
Well, I recommend you get your NoDo fix now...it is super easy, and works using either the data method or wifi...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup I'm aware of the Hungarian VPN hack, but am not that desperate for NoDo right now so will wait for ATT to get its act together.
Tried Android emulator on amazon.com and decided that WP7 UI is awesome?
I'm not sure how this works.
vangrieg said:
Tried Android emulator on amazon.com and decided that WP7 UI is awesome?
I'm not sure how this works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something like humping an ugly fat neighbour to appreciate your slim, beautiful wife even more ?!
Avandor said:
Something like humping an ugly fat neighbour to appreciate your slim, beautiful wife even more ?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jesus!
vangrieg said:
Tried Android emulator on amazon.com and decided that WP7 UI is awesome?
I'm not sure how this works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I was a former Symbian user and had never used an Android device before, so this was my first time with the Android UI which I must say offers nothing compared to WP7.
Avandor said:
Something like humping an ugly fat neighbour to appreciate your slim, beautiful wife even more ?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol rofl
fat girls need loving too
but they gotta pay!!!
As for android, best to go look at a device. Sadly, it functions quite similarly to amazon's test...sometimes fast, most times slow
And what does text based WP7 offers, thad android doesn`t?
balance
non fragmented hardware
driver specific code to run at optimum
me thinks that's enough
UbiMaiden said:
And what does text based WP7 offers, thad android doesn`t?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Text based? At least WP7 doesn't use any terminal emulator
UbiMaiden said:
And what does text based WP7 offers, thad android doesn`t?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A clean, smooth, fast interface?
This thread should be closed before it gets out of control.
I have used Windows Mobile before moving to Android.
here is what I feel about Android...
Android is the new Windows Mobile 6.X
very powerful...but lacks cohesiveness. Unusable without custom ROMs
I am thinking of giving Windows phone 7 a try. Perhaps I am getting too old to keep flashing my phone every week.
Anyways... don't completely ignore Android. UI can be improved at any time. Next few years will be interesting to watch.
arkavat said:
Android is the new Windows Mobile 6.X
very powerful...but lacks cohesiveness. Unusable without custom ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^My thoughts exactly. Maybe those Microsoft WM developers jumped ship to Google
If you ever played with the Windows Mobile emulator before, it's the same experience. Very plain and boring. That's why OEMs spent so much time skin it and customize it.
What you see on the emulator is not the same on devices.
What's hilarious is that someone starts a thread like this, then some WP7 denizens wonder why there is "negativity" about WP7. What is the OP even saying? Such valuable information that will surely help someone out, the forums are better for it that's for sure. Pretty sad actually.
as per the topic (whatever it actually is), the problem with the WP7 UI is that it can't be changed. So you either love Metro forever, or you best get a phone where you can theme it a little or at least change the wallpaper. I'm not going to sit here and bash WP7 because even though it is missing essential features that I need as a power-user, it is still a nice OS and I can see that it might be right for some people. For me It's going to be Android, iOS, and WM6.5.x for at least a couple more years till WP7 matures.
arkavat said:
I have used Windows Mobile before moving to Android.
here is what I feel about Android...
Android is the new Windows Mobile 6.X
very powerful...but lacks cohesiveness. Unusable without custom ROMs
I am thinking of giving Windows phone 7 a try. Perhaps I am getting too old to keep flashing my phone every week.
Anyways... don't completely ignore Android. UI can be improved at any time. Next few years will be interesting to watch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true.
That being said, to some people the ability to load a custom rom is an advantage. If you want to "customize" WP7 you're SoL. If you don't like your manufacturer's Andorid skin, but love the hardware (as many Galaxy S users do), it's not hard to load a stock custom ROM on it and get on with your life.
In many cases people don't even need custom roms. They just install something like ADW or LauncherPro and that's good enough for them.
That being said, no software differences will make up for the huge gap in hadware between WP7 and Android phones. The WP7 hardware is just not... attractive... these days. Even normal consumers are asking about specs these days, because the tech press and even the normal press have been conditioning them to expect these things to improve over time, not drop back (as WP7 has... going from late 2010 hardware to late 2009 hardware if you "upgraded" from Android to WP7).
Another thing Anddoid has going for it is Apps. AmEx just came out with Serve.com and there's only an App for iOS and Android, for example. No WhatsApp for WP7. No Trillian for WP7. RIM is supposed to be releasing BBM for iOS and Android. There are tons of apps that either aren't available for WP7, or will never be available in the forseeable future due to API lockdown by Microsoft.
It's a terrible platform for an App-o-holic and moving form Android to WP7 I find myself carrying around both phones pretty much 100% of the time because there are lots of apps that simply aren't available on WP7. There still isn't an IM client. No HTML5 browser. No SP-to-SP messaging app, no Turn-by-Turn Navigation, still cannot attach videos to MMS or Email, etc.
Like I said in another thread. Looks only get you so far. A dumb blond may be hot as hell, but she's still dumb.
but then this leads to the question, what do you want to change? besides putting background image and font changing, much of the wp7 is extremely theme friendly. Now, granted, haven't found a way to change the square tiles but even then that's a wip...
And even with the tile shape not being able to be changed, there are plenty of options to create something amazing
domineus said:
but then this leads to the question, what do you want to change? besides putting background image and font changing, much of the wp7 is extremely theme friendly. Now, granted, haven't found a way to change the square tiles but even then that's a wip...
And even with the tile shape not being able to be changed, there are plenty of options to create something amazing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The size of the tiles? Make the App List a a grid instead of a list?
Change the default search provider in the browser?
Lower the touchscreen sensitivity and/or threshold for panning so that moving my finger 1 millimeter won't make the phone switch panes.
A lot of stuff people would want to change are impossible becuase Microsoft has crafted the OS in such a way that even skilled developers cannot compete with their stock apps (better browsers, other music players, better email clients (with conversation view and unified inbox, e.g.).
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Try this, you may like it.
http://blog.walshie.me/2011/04/04/so-who-wants-windows-phone-updates-like-right-now/
if you're having problems unlocking your device, you should really hit the chevron thread. But for the most part, any issues with the unlock process on my end have been fixed.
As far as updating, you should check a few areas that have a nice update step for everyone and it works for anyone whose tried so far.
Then there is the option of actually waiting for your specific device to update via carrier.
It gets tiring to see the I'm tired of windows phone because it hasn't updated even though you like the experience...it's the first update...the very first one at that. Take a look at android updating, or even the god awful windows mobile updating
Updater
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this. It's brand new, but, given who it came from it should work.
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First update errors were caused by Samsung not MS.
Second update is being held up by the carriers.
I have an unlocked/unbranded samsung omnia 7 and haven't gotten the update, but I don't care because it is only a minor update and I know it is coming. Be patient bro.
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you on this. Both Android and iOS got grief regarding simple features. MS should have learnt from their mistakes, as WP7 was release years after these 2.
Any way i am now running Mango, and i have to say this is a Massive leap forward for the OS. If i had not have invested so much into iOS i would move over and just use WP7!
As for my previous post, i was venting my frustration. Which i think i am allowed to do and have an opinion. Granted the update only brought copy and paste and a few other minor features but these are massive features. Especially when using the device as a business device.
FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus (cause she liked my HD7) and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead... However, this same person had no problems accepting my HD2 as a gift over the new phone, but I didn't give it cause my mom didn't want to pay more by using 2 different carriers and no family plan.
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
It was the perfect case of "I don't care how it looks, I care what it can do." as far as I'm concerned.
But of course I'm sure you will think this was only an outlier situation
N8ter said:
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead...
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
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Click to collapse
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
Dj21o said:
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
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Click to collapse
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
eric12341 said:
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Just tried a short video and it has the share options to Facebook, SkyDrive and your email addresses so it is indeed working in the Mango beta.
(My video successfully uploaded to facebook, NEAT!)
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Then:
Are you able to send a short video to others with MMS? What about more than one picture at a time in a MMS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then in reply to that:
At this stage 'Messaging' is not an option in Mango, just email, facebook and skydrive.
You can only send one picture at a time in an MMS from WP7 Mango (can you send more in a single MMS on other platforms?).
EDIT: or rather i can't find a way to do more than one picture in a single MMS...there may be a way
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Click to collapse
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
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Click to collapse
I guess the people that care about that would be upset then.
People send videos through e-mail and MMS all the time...
MrNetrix said:
E-mail video? Since when do people e-mail or even MMS videos? My feature phone can definitely do neither.
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Click to collapse
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
To your first part of the post (not quoted): Free on Contract blackberries and cheap iPhone 3GSes can do all this, and more. That's not even comparing current WP7 OS/Devices to Android and iOS devices that were released in the same timeframe.
I'm not going to get baited into another heated forum battle, so... last response to you
If your only retort is "who does <something," then you've already defeated your own argument. A majority of cell phone users are on Feature and Dumb Phones. Millions and millions of people utilize the video MMS feature on those phones. And feature phones have email clients as well (some having somewhat decent HTML support, even).
N8ter said:
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
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Click to collapse
No, I was just unaware that mine was able to since I never even had the remote need to.
N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Then:
Then in reply to that:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
eric12341 said:
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
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Click to collapse
And how is your grandmother who has a feature phone going to view that facebook video from her phone when she's at the flea market lookign for deals? Everyone wants their kids on Facebook. Yea. Lol... More people share on YouTube than Facebook. You can make YouTube Videos Privates. But more cell phone users are on Feature Phones and if you want to share short video clips with people on dumb or feature phones you cannot depend on either Facebook or YouTube. That is the issue. The issue is not what you can do on your phone, or wha tyou prefer. The issue is the OS being designed in a way that limits communications with people who have not yet migrated to smartphone platforms... Do you understand it NOW?
Again, if your only retort is "I found the quality lacking," then you've defeated your own argument.
Tethering?
Mobile Hotspot?
What about better Exchange Policy support so Exchange Servers stop declining lots of WP7 devices from connecting to networks that iPhones and Symbian devices have no issues connecting to?
File System Support so we can use a File Manager and manage files on the phone? And more easily/faster bulk copy media of dispirate/varied types to the device?
Outlook Synching from Zune Client, and Documents? For those of us who do not have SharePoint/Exchange but don't want to put confidential contact information/documents in the cloud? For those who don't know... Windows Live (Hotmail - which shares the same base login for Live) has a bad history when it comes to Account hacking/hijacking.
A notification tray so that you can see what you got while you were asleep or your phone was silenced/put away (I'm talking beyond the Social notifications pane, which only covers stuff you can already see in the Facebook/Twitter app, etc.) without hopping into several applications? (swipe left from Home, App List. Swipe Right, Notification Cache).
Does the Video Camera settings save in Mango, at least?
Only loosely related, but it would be nice if they allowed us to suscribe more than one RSS feed in Windows Live...
DLNA support at the platform level, not just from specific phone models/OEMs? Every decent Android device has this, and the iPhone has AirPlay.
Turn by Turn is still pretty bad in Mango, and I think I've already mentioned it but I still can't get over the insane feature drop-off from WM to WP7 IRT Bing Maps... It's still borderline unbelievable to me...
Universal Search?
Has Codec support been expanded? If you email someone a WMV and their phone doesn't support that CODEC, well, too bad?
I can continue
N8ter said:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't possibly be serious. Using the capabilities of a beta, that is not even close to feature complete, as proof that the finished release of the update won't include MMS video? That just boggles the mind.
N8ter said:
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? I thought this thread was about WP7 users being "fed up" with the OS. Given that, it seems more to me like telling people who own a PC, but aren't very happy with Win7, to have patience because a new version of the OS is coming. That may or may not be good advice, but it is a more correct analogy.
MartyLK said:
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you 110%. Android is open source and all about customizations, if you choose to do so. I know the GSII is coming to Sprint in August, but I'm not sure if I can hold back with all the power that device has. It runs quite well and the most I would do is underclock the phone to conserve my battery. I have fully customized my Evo, but I cannot sync my emails, my data has to be turned off, and I need a task killer all the time or my battery dies really quick.
With WP7, you don't need to worry about those features, and you get free applications *cough*. I mean, I hate having to go through all of the troubles to get these things to work properly, but I love the variety that I have.
WP7 runs sooo smooth and there is over 500 features being applied in Mango, and I really want simplicity and that beautiful UI.
What do you think is more important?