Develop Bugs

Photon: What Windows Mobile 7 could have been

Pocketnow.com has a great story on Windows "Phone" 7 and details about what happened to Windows "Mobile" 7, codenamed Photon.
I think it's worth a read. I can add a little detail: Photon has been killed about 18 months ago. That's how long development of Windows Phone 7 took them. 18 months. And that's why the Windows Phone 7 they've shown at MWC looks so unfinished: Because it is.
Photon was the original Windows Mobile 7 project. An evolution of Windows Mobile 6. They were hard at work back then, trying to make Windows Mobile 7 competitive to iPhone OS. Windows Mobile 7 was originally planned to be released in mid 2009.
But at some point, they dumped the whole project and decided to start from scratch. Photon was dead. And Windows "Mobile" was doomed, making way for Windows "Phone". Instead of Photon, they released Windows Mobile 6.5 in mid 2009, a stop gap release to give them more time to finish their new Windows Phone 7 project.
Well, we all know how that turned out.
I personally think that they've made a mistake. I think Windows Mobile 7 (Photon) would have been competitive, as it essentially would have solved all of Windows Mobile's problems, but preserving the power of Windows Mobile, the reason we use and like it.
Windows Phone 7 will instead be much more closed and remove a great proportion of the power user features, that were the reason for us not to move on to other platforms, like the iPhone.
But what do I know? Windows Mobile 7 wouldn't have been much different from other platforms, like Android and iPhone OS. Sure, it would have had much more power user features, but it would have been centered around applications, like the others. It would certainly have gained a significant market share, but no dominance. With Windows Phone 7, instead, Microsoft is aiming higher.
But that also means a lot of risk. It means Windows Phone 7 might fail completely. In the end, it will come down to how good they are at getting developers excited about their new platform. That's where Palm failed, despite having a very compelling platform with webOS. Microsoft might fail the same way, though they have a much better starting position than Palm (more money, more resources, better developing tools).
In my opinions, they've taken too much risk while desperately trying to create something different from their competitors' app-centric platforms. As Engadget said it: Being different does not necessarily mean making a difference. If they can make a difference, they might dominate the smartphone market some time, like they dominate the desktop OS market. But if they fail to make a difference... well, Windows Phone might fall into oblivion, like Palm's webOS.
I like the Windows Phone 7 UI. I like it a lot. See my take on the interface quoted at the bottom of this post.
But Windows Phone 7 is very similar to Vista: Just like they killed the "Longhorn" project, they killed "Photon", and started from scratch. And just like Vista, what they're going to release by the end of 2010 will be an unfinished product.
They're trying to make you think that 7 is their lucky number, but actually, it might turn out that it's not, and Windows Phone 7 is just like Windows 6 (Vista).
Also, Windows Phone 7 is not that different from Palm's webOS: When the Palm Pre was released, webOS was a nice looking mobile OS, but lacking features and refinements. And lacking third party applications. Expect the same to happen with Windows Phone 7.
Here's the Pocketnow story: http://pocketnow.com/thought/thoughts-on-windows-phone-7-series-btw-photon-is-dead
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In short: This is easily and by far the best and most well thought through UI I've ever seen. Ever.
I particularly like
- the ability to pin pretty much everything to the first page (but unlike Sense, as many things as you want), whether it's contacts, programs or whatever
- the things you pin to the first page not being static, but also showing information - a very clever way to bring together the iPhone's icon-based home screen with Windows Mobile's information based home screen.
- the navigation through the pages, with the text on top going out of the screen to show you that there's more you can discover by swiping left/right
- the panorama backgrounds on all the screens (cover arts in music, a random picture in photos etc.)
- the ability for third party developers to integrate their stuff (like additional social networks or streaming services) into the hubs (I hope there will be a lot of freedom for third parties to do so!).
- the seamless integration of all kinds of services in general, whether it's Exchange, Windows Live (finally!!), Facebook...
I also particularly like that some good concepts from previous Windows Mobile versions have been preserved:
- long press menus
- softkeys
- quick search through any list (in WM6.5, it was the keyboard icon, now it's the required search button)
Those enable a consistent UI throughout all applications, contrary to the mess you find on the iPhone, where important buttons like "back" are in different places depending on the application you're in.
OK, enough of the praise, here's what I do NOT like:
- The all applications list: That should be a grid, cause there's lots of wasted space there.
- There seems to be no easy way to get to the music controls while music is playing in the background.
- Apparently there is no easy way to switch between running applications, this seems to work much like WM6.5, with the back button taking you to the application you used before. This is a mess, the back button should open some kind of task switcher instead.
Will that awesome UI be enough to keep me from buying an Android device? Well, ONLY if I get all the important applications from the beginning, like for example satellite navigation (TomTom, Copilot...) and ONLY if there are no restrictions on how I use my device - give me multitasking, unlimited access to the file system and registry, let companies develop competing applications (like browsers) etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Great writeup...it's obvious that in order to attain mass market share MS needs to develop an interface that just works straight out of the box. It has to work for all ages which is something Apple have done with the iPhone..simple and attractive with a huge incentive to keep ones interest high through their ever growing appstore. If they can get it right first time and with the enthusiasm from application developers they may well be onto a winner but the win may not come immediately.However, they need to make every step count along the way and the longer they take the bigger the gap to the lead.
I also believe MS may leave at least one door unlocked to get their OS to do what powerusers expect from it.
From what I've seen of the WP7 interface so far it looks pretty neat and I'm definately looking forward to it hopefully landing on my HD2 soon.

Uh... link's dead.

aussiebum said:
Uh... link's dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently pocketnow is in the process of moving to a new server and that article is on the new server. I can't see it either.
Microsoft is MASSIVELY different than Palm. In size, skills, and especially developer support and tools.
WebOS is a great OS but like you said, it's main failure is developer support. First, it's partially their fault due to the architecture. Until recently, you couldn't really write "native" apps using their SDK (people hacked it long ago but that's another story). Basically you were limited to little more than a web page with increased access to the phone. Meh. Also, WebOS has very minimal market penetration. Until recently it was only available on the US's #3 carrier and only later on select carriers abroad. Why develop software for a device that hardly anyone has? Apple was (as they always seem to do) able to drum up a large amout of support with very little reason to show for it. Microsoft will have a much more compelling story than Apple did with it's iPhone but will lack Apple's "it" factor (Jobs' RDF).
Palm is tiny. They don't have the money and patience like MS does to sustain a long, battle for the hearts and minds of phone users everywhere. Just look at what MS did with the Xbox. They didn't turn a profit on that unit until well into the Xbox 360. But did MS quit after the original Xbox was a failure? No, they tried harder. And now look.
Palm doesn't have the devloper tools. Yea, they can write plugins for Eclipse but they lack the ability to write extensive APIs and integrate them into Visual Studio. Do not underestimate the power of .net (figuratively and literally). Silverlight is fantastic as is XNA. If I can make a 'game' (although it sucked lol) anyone can.
No guts no glory. Microsoft is playing for keeps. I have no doubt that WP7 or WP8 will be successful.
FYI, Windows 7 is really Windows 6.1. And just like Longhorn, Photon was likely destined to be a failure. Vista was a necessary step to get to 7. The hatred for Vista is largely unfounded and 7 really is just Vista with the complaints fixed and a bit more modern UI.
We still don't know the story on app compat. It's running WinCE and it will support silverlight (.net) so there's little reason, other than wanting a complete clean break, that most old apps won't work. WinCE uses cab installs just like WM (because it is CE). I can write one app and deploy it to a bare WinCE 6.0 system or to WM6.5 (CE5). Maybe they will allow old stuff, maybe they won't. We won't know til next month. They very well may not have made this decision yet.
At one time the iPhone had 0 apps and WM had a **** ton. How long did it take for iPhone to build up a huge base of devs? I'm expecting a pretty solid selection of apps written for WP7 right from launch. Microsoft already has a lot of the key stuff onboard. I've got something in mind and will likely be doing one myself (something I started for WM6).

I agree.
I wouldn't worry about WP7 apps' database like the iPhone people will get interest in it, its potential is great when it comes to the new UI (the only thing we know for sure).
About the Photon project, why do you think that it's dead?
It seems that M$ is willing to keep the old branch of Windows Mobile by renaming it to Windows Phone Classic. Perhaps Photon is the final evolution of Windows Phone Classic. I don't think, IF they keep on developping, that they are going to stop to this current bad look and poor customization of WM6.5.3.
I don't think Windows Phone 7 was supposed to be WM6.1, if it was the OS would be ready a long time ago.
I apologize for my poor english, i hope you understand my thought.

X-On said:
About the Photon project, why do you think that it's dead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been told by peole inside Microsoft that WM6.5 will live on for no longer than two years, more likely only 18 months from now. I've heard no word that there would be a successor.

freyberry said:
I have been told by peole inside Microsoft that WM6.5 will live on for no longer than two years, more likely only 18 months from now. I've heard no word that there would be a successor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Due to the limited versions numbers left between 6.5 and 7 it's not really assumed they will keep it going for too long. after 6.5.3 is gonna be officially released (this month?) my guess it that they're only fixing bugs and make it run on few more devices. in 1-2 years I don't think anymore OEMS will demand it and there'll be not a lot of phones with CPUs less than 1Ghz and such and they'll all run WP7. For MS it doesn't really make sense to keep it going any longer.....

WM6.5.x will be Windows Phone Starter Edition according to the latest rumors

Win_XP said:
WM6.5.x will be Windows Phone Starter Edition according to the latest rumors
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it's 'Windows Phone Classic'
source

Any chance of a Photon leak? Would be nice project for Xda Dev.

some screens ...

dark_sith said:
Any chance of a Photon leak? Would be nice project for Xda Dev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We had old alpha versions. It was very unfinished, slow and buggy.
Cotulla has posted its screenshots above.

I think Photon looked good. They should at least have finished the work on it and released it instead of WM6.5.
Let those 1000 developers work on Windows Phone OS 7.0 and another 500 work on Photon, release Photon in mid 2009 as WM6.5 and Windows Phone OS 7.0 a year later.
That would have been perfect. Ah I'm dreaming...
Mamaich, any chance you could have another look at that dev document, whether third party applications get paused when sent to the background?
(i.e. whether or not developers are allowed to write programs like GPS tracking tools or FTP clients that can do their work in the background)

freyberry said:
Mamaich, any chance you could have another look at that dev document, whether third party applications get paused when sent to the background?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such info in the docs I have. These are OEM docs, they have lots of information on WinPhone kernel, and only brief info on user apps.
I personally like WinPhone 7 kernel. It supports lots of different sensors, hardware accelerated Direct3D API (no OpenGL ES), multi-touch, almost all drivers are split in MDD+PDD model simplifying BSP development and ROM updates, redesigned security model.
Obviously we will hack WinPhone7 to enable running native apps (similar to "rooting" Androids that we have to do to install features like VPN client), and publish our own "native mode SDKs" here on XDA.

mamaich said:
There is no such info in the docs I have. These are OEM docs, they have lots of information on WinPhone kernel, and only brief info on user apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot. We will have to wait, then.
Obviously, WP7 will be hacked and we will be able to develop native and multitasking applications. But I seriously hope that big, important applications like GPS navigation programs won't be restricted from running in the background... I'll contact MS concerning that issue

If MS continue with the Photon project, it would be more of the same.They would continue to loss marketshare. It may be technically more advanced for the WM powerusers. Unfortunately, it is a small minority for the market. the fact that Apple could sell their dump phone (1st iPhone) in millions and continue to do so well tells us what appeals to the the mass market. MS really has no choice but to follow the path they are doing now if they are to remain relevant to the mobile space. Yes, it is risky but the alternative is certain to fail.

freyberry said:
Thanks a lot. We will have to wait, then.
Obviously, WP7 will be hacked and we will be able to develop native and multitasking applications. But I seriously hope that big, important applications like GPS navigation programs won't be restricted from running in the background... I'll contact MS concerning that issue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume that Navigation programs would belong to that type of application that would receive a multitasking permission by MS.... If that story about the permissions is true!? But looking at the already exisiting Designed for Windows Mobile or Marketplace submission handbook this pretty much fits in with MS's way of handling 3rd party applications.

from the picture. are thet from Windows "Mobile" 7 ?
I like these UI. Microsoft should place these UI to WM6.x if WM7 was killed

MrWhisper said:
from the picture. are thet from Windows "Mobile" 7 ?
I like these UI. Microsoft should place these UI to WM6.x if WM7 was killed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me only like other screenshots I've seen with the new bottom bar (battery and signal indication + start button in the middle. I don't know if it's even real. Whatever, I'm gonna make it happen on WM 6.5.x! I already managed to change look of the taskbar. the bottom bar will be next project.

RustyGrom said:
Apparently pocketnow is in the process of moving to a new server and that article is on the new server. I can't see it either.
Microsoft is MASSIVELY different than Palm. In size, skills, and especially developer support and tools.
WebOS is a great OS but like you said, it's main failure is developer support. First, it's partially their fault due to the architecture. Until recently, you couldn't really write "native" apps using their SDK (people hacked it long ago but that's another story). Basically you were limited to little more than a web page with increased access to the phone. Meh. Also, WebOS has very minimal market penetration. Until recently it was only available on the US's #3 carrier and only later on select carriers abroad. Why develop software for a device that hardly anyone has? Apple was (as they always seem to do) able to drum up a large amout of support with very little reason to show for it. Microsoft will have a much more compelling story than Apple did with it's iPhone but will lack Apple's "it" factor (Jobs' RDF).
Palm is tiny. They don't have the money and patience like MS does to sustain a long, battle for the hearts and minds of phone users everywhere. Just look at what MS did with the Xbox. They didn't turn a profit on that unit until well into the Xbox 360. But did MS quit after the original Xbox was a failure? No, they tried harder. And now look.
Palm doesn't have the devloper tools. Yea, they can write plugins for Eclipse but they lack the ability to write extensive APIs and integrate them into Visual Studio. Do not underestimate the power of .net (figuratively and literally). Silverlight is fantastic as is XNA. If I can make a 'game' (although it sucked lol) anyone can.
No guts no glory. Microsoft is playing for keeps. I have no doubt that WP7 or WP8 will be successful.
FYI, Windows 7 is really Windows 6.1. And just like Longhorn, Photon was likely destined to be a failure. Vista was a necessary step to get to 7. The hatred for Vista is largely unfounded and 7 really is just Vista with the complaints fixed and a bit more modern UI.
We still don't know the story on app compat. It's running WinCE and it will support silverlight (.net) so there's little reason, other than wanting a complete clean break, that most old apps won't work. WinCE uses cab installs just like WM (because it is CE). I can write one app and deploy it to a bare WinCE 6.0 system or to WM6.5 (CE5). Maybe they will allow old stuff, maybe they won't. We won't know til next month. They very well may not have made this decision yet.
At one time the iPhone had 0 apps and WM had a **** ton. How long did it take for iPhone to build up a huge base of devs? I'm expecting a pretty solid selection of apps written for WP7 right from launch. Microsoft already has a lot of the key stuff onboard. I've got something in mind and will likely be doing one myself (something I started for WM6).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree with all of the above, as well as my HD2, I have a Palm Pre and whilst I watched the WP7S presentation from MWC, I kept thinking - "that's like the Pre" Palm did a great job with the user interface on WebOS - it blows away the iPhone and Winmo for ease of use, but they did release an unfinished product (although they have managed to put a reasonable spin on the ongoing development by pitching "new features" into the mix every couple of months - things that should have been there day1).
MS are huge in comparison to Palm and provided they do not get bogged down with "big corp intertia", my guess is that the new OS will lauch complete with all bells and whistles intact.

There is no WM7

Please be careful in your terminology.
There is NO WM7.
I would be for WM7 -- a win32/directx (like wm6.5) version of Windows Mobile running on the CE 6.0 kernel. This was developed (mostly) then scraped about a year ago.
Now we have wp7. This is not Windows Mobile. It's not called it, it's not compatible with anything from WM, it has no characteristics of the Windows Mobile products; it is a completely different product line.
Perhaps Microsoft will someday release a WM7 for the enterprise community. Again, for me this would mean a Win32 api based system built on CE 6.0 instead of 5.2. That is what we all wanted (as developers) for the past two years. A Windows Mobile with a desktop-like kernel.
I like wp7, but ultimately it is NOT wm7.
Calling wp7 wm7 is like calling a set top media player a Windows PC.
Rob

its actually wp7 now, they dropped the "series".

leemoss84 said:
its actually wp7 now, they dropped the "series".
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Click to collapse
Lol. Noted, thanks.
Rob

Exactly my thoughts. I really wish Microsoft would release WM7 with the ability to run WP7 apps and legacy apps along with the more modern CE6 core with all the multitasking and customization of current Winmo.

Guys, it's exactly wm7 you have talked about, just locked and with a new UI. Really nothing special. It is running on CE6, has a lot of components as WM6.5 has. I saw the binaries and I can tell that most of MS applications are native applications coded in C++ and only thirdy-party applications will use .NET code or how you or MS like to call it. I'm sure that we will see the paltform somehow cracked and able to run other native code and legacy applications. It's just a matter of time.

Well reading that was pointless
Would have read better saying no wm8 lol

Well, calling it WM7 ties it to all of the negative connotations of Windows Mobile, so it's better to call it something new so there's a "RESET" in the public mind. Windows Mobile has a very bad reputation in the public mind...you DO realize it had fail written all over don't you? MS had to escape from it.

xdmcdmc said:
Guys, it's exactly wm7 you have talked about, just locked and with a new UI. Really nothing special. It is running on CE6, has a lot of components as WM6.5 has. I saw the binaries and I can tell that most of MS applications are native applications coded in C++ and only thirdy-party applications will use .NET code or how you or MS like to call it. I'm sure that we will see the paltform somehow cracked and able to run other native code and legacy applications. It's just a matter of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter 1 bit if under it all it's CE 6 with Win32 if we as developers can't use that. This is not WM7, so we should not call it that.
I, as a user, have over $300 invested in Windows Mobile applications that I've purchased. The most significant of which will most likely NEVER get ported to WP7 because it won't support native code at the application developer level.
Then there's my massive investment in Visual Studio 2008 (yes, and I'm very pissed that 2008 won't get dev tools for wp7). For the kids and phone users out there who don't understand why -- developers spend $1000+ per computer to pay for Visual Studio Pro. Moving to VS2010 calls for another $1000. I just got 2008 last year. Windows Mobile development kits worked across many versions of VS without requiring expensive and unnecessary upgrades all the time.
I stuck it out, waiting for WM7, because the promise of CE 6.0 brought real multitasking, a desktop like memory model, and essentially, modernity to Windows Mobile.
I have no interest in .net. I don't see the point to making a 1ghz chip behave like a 500 mhz chip. C# seems suited for simple apps and I guess, depending on your app, you may want to write in managed code. However, for a lot of heavier-weight applications (read: ones with significant custom database needs, web browsers, well performing games) the developer needs to manage memory directly. Pointer math, while harder to code, is ideal for devices and their limited resources. IPhone runs native code, making it, gasp, the technically superior product now.
The problem now is that what developers were remaining are now leaving. The users that are left are also leaving or planning to stick to 6.5 until an IPhone development path is set out. We stayed loyal to WM only to find out that we just should have switched.
WP7 seems to say to the remaining Windows Mobile users "You aren't the users we wanted to keep."
Rob

RobRedbeard said:
It doesn't matter 1 bit if under it all it's CE 6 with Win32 if we as developers can't use that. This is not WM7, so we should not call it that.
I, as a user, have over $300 invested in Windows Mobile applications that I've purchased. The most significant of which will most likely NEVER get ported to WP7 because it won't support native code at the application developer level.
Then there's my massive investment in Visual Studio 2008 (yes, and I'm very pissed that 2008 won't get dev tools for wp7). For the kids and phone users out there who don't understand why -- developers spend $1000+ per computer to pay for Visual Studio Pro. Moving to VS2010 calls for another $1000. I just got 2008 last year. Windows Mobile development kits worked across many versions of VS without requiring expensive and unnecessary upgrades all the time.
I stuck it out, waiting for WM7, because the promise of CE 6.0 brought real multitasking, a desktop like memory model, and essentially, modernity to Windows Mobile.
I have no interest in .net. I don't see the point to making a 1ghz chip behave like a 500 mhz chip. C# seems suited for simple apps and I guess, depending on your app, you may want to write in managed code. However, for a lot of heavier-weight applications (read: ones with significant custom database needs, web browsers, well performing games) the developer needs to manage memory directly. Pointer math, while harder to code, is ideal for devices and their limited resources. IPhone runs native code, making it, gasp, the technically superior product now.
The problem now is that what developers were remaining are now leaving. The users that are left are also leaving or planning to stick to 6.5 until an IPhone development path is set out. We stayed loyal to WM only to find out that we just should have switched.
WP7 seems to say to the remaining Windows Mobile users "You aren't the users we wanted to keep."
Rob
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why can't you just use VS 2010 express tools? The WP7 dev tools are free.

Kloc said:
Why can't you just use VS 2010 express tools? The WP7 dev tools are free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. I can run the express tools. Honestly, I'm not yet sure on what differences, if any, will exists between VS1010 Pro and Express when it comes to WP7. I will get the RC tonight and begin testing.
My point still remains, that this isn't the product that we were all waiting around for. It's a great product, exciting in many ways, but it isn't the successor to WM 6.5 -- it seems to do utterly different things, utterly differently.
For users and developers invested in WM 6.5 there is a 0% upgrade path. It completely nullifies that investment. Nothing will flow forward, thus I think it really is correct that MS gave it a completely different name.
The least they should do is create a WM 6.x "panel" with a virtual, or somehow sandboxed FS for us to run our tons of legacy apps in.
Rob

RobRedbeard said:
Good point. I can run the express tools. Honestly, I'm not yet sure on what differences, if any, will exists between VS1010 Pro and Express when it comes to WP7. I will get the RC tonight and begin testing.
My point still remains, that this isn't the product that we were all waiting around for. It's a great product, exciting in many ways, but it isn't the successor to WM 6.5 -- it seems to do utterly different things, utterly differently.
For users and developers invested in WM 6.5 there is a 0% upgrade path. It completely nullifies that investment. Nothing will flow forward, thus I think it really is correct that MS gave it a completely different name.
The least they should do is create a WM 6.x "panel" with a virtual, or somehow sandboxed FS for us to run our tons of legacy apps in.
Rob
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya but there is an important thing to keep in mind, now it is about the look and feel of WP7, even though the applications written in .NET CF will not work out of the box, but 90% of the code will! infact you can use the same classes and connect them to the new GUI, as simple as that

I still don't understand why they locked it down. Even if it is marketed towards the general public how would they know how to use a file explorer anyhow? Not like their gonna mess something up because they don't know how to use it!

RobRedbeard said:
Please be careful in your terminology.
There is NO WM7.
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ONLY ZUUL!
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I get the name change from Windows Mobile to Windows phone. But I don't get it why they also renamed 6.5 to Windows phone.....

Windows Phone 7 for HD2

Hi all ass google told me, there will be an unofficial update for hd2 but they still have problems with the grafic driver.
I may buy an Hd2 and i want to know your opinion about the graphic bug and if the Hd2 has enough sufficient hardware; 1Ghz cpu is MINIMUM requierement and in the video in youtube the os works really slow.
Thx

wait until its ready for the HD2 before you buy 1, because its no guarantee that it will work & if it does who knows if it will be able to download things from the marketplace
as far as graphic drivers if those arent up to par the whole UI will be pointless (laggy & choppy) to many unknowns to spend that much on a phone imo

I talked to HTC and T-mobile they expect the update mid to late june around the same time the Iphone 4g will be droppin...

sorry to say but they just fed you donkey balls =)
the only thing I have seen or even heard/downloaded is a new rom from htc and its still 6.5
it isn't 7 =/
Officially microsoft has repeatedly stated that no device will get the wp7 upgrade sadly...so take it as it were but that's the official word

Thx guys but with unofficial update i mean the russian guys who could get wp7 working on the hd2

domineus said:
sorry to say but they just fed you donkey balls =)
the only thing I have seen or even heard/downloaded is a new rom from htc and its still 6.5
it isn't 7 =/
Officially microsoft has repeatedly stated that no device will get the wp7 upgrade sadly...so take it as it were but that's the official word
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can u find the official microsoft statement and give s a link here??

well..I found this:
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Cue the sad trombone, folks. If you were waiting around with your Windows Mobile 6.5 device with hopes that Microsoft would one day bless it with a new chance at life in the form of Windows Phone 7, it’s time to move on.
APC Magazine just got the full spiel from Microsoft themselves: Windows Mobile 6.5 devices won’t be upgradable to Windows Phone 7 series. (You hear that? Five hundred XDA hackers just scoffed and said “Yeah, we’ll see about that.”)
Why? Standards. Microsoft has a very, very, almost ridiculously strict set of hardware guidelines that they want manufacturing partners to follow when building Windows Phone 7 Series handsets — and for the most part, old handsets just don’t fit the bill. They either lack one of the three mandatory keys (search, back, and Windows key), or — get this — they have too many keys.
A while back, a shot of the HTC HD2 allegedly running Windows Phone 7 Series hit the net. We were quick to debunk it here, with our reasoning being that the HD2 lacked the mandatory search key. Sure enough: Microsoft’s GM of Mobile Communications in the Asia-Pacific, Natasha Kwan, says the HD2 won’t be getting the upgrade “because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.
Of course, this just means that they won’t be getting the upgrade treatment from Microsoft. As we mentioned above, there’s probably a mighty army of hackers just waiting to get their hands on Windows Phone ROMs for the sake of down-porting it to older handsets; if it’s feasible, it’ll probably happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/03/01/windows-mobile-6-5-upgrade-windows-phone-7/
daam..now i'm becoming really the anti-microsoft..
and I never thought I would say that..not even after windows ME and Vista on pc..
how can they do this to us???
So they say just because there aint no search button..and there r to mush other buttons our phones wont get WP 7?
SO that means we (all HD2 users)just got f****d???dam..I spent alotta money not to change my phone in couple of month..since WM 6.5 is totally dead..

MS will change their mind
When all of us move to Android or stay with our HD2 another year at least, and many will buy the new iPhone, MS will realize what a fatal market research it is to force phone makers to a specific look (or buttons).
I am also reading they will not allow a layer of extra GUI like HTC sense to run on it, and want consistent look to all phones, regardless who is the maker. Unless they come up with an amazing GUI and themes , they can forget about me having WM7. I am more than happy with WM6.5 and HTC sense..
__________________
HTC HD 2
Energy ROM(May 4th)

BigE said:
When all of us move to Android or stay with our HD2 another year at least, and many will buy the new iPhone, MS will realize what a fatal market research it is to force phone makers to a specific look (or buttons).
I am also reading they will not allow a layer of extra GUI like HTC sense to run on it, and want consistent look to all phones, regardless who is the maker. Unless they come up with an amazing GUI and themes , they can forget about me having WM7. I am more than happy with WM6.5 and HTC sense..
__________________
HTC HD 2
Energy ROM(May 4th)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I abhor statements like this from the above poster
MS will realize the error of their ways. SURPRISE! Several users that were once wm have already moved to android and apple since 2007. Hence the campaign to revitalize the operating system. Its already been happening and if you think it can get worse for microsoft mobile after announcing wp7 to which many have said it is impressive, you are deluding yourself.
Fact remains
Google looks like vomit before htc sense, people bought google in droves. Apple has shiny buttons, people bought it in droves. I fail to see your logic from an economic standpoint beyond baseless fanboyism (dont misunderstand I am a die hard windows mobile faithful as well). People somehow buy seemingly restricted crap because of how it is marketed. Time and time again this has been proven...
so what you don't buy wp7 device...and if 100 people buy it over you, no one is really going to care if you don't buy it =)

imauser said:
can u find the official microsoft statement and give s a link here??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding? The internet is full of official Microsoft statements. Just a simple Google search will very likely link you to all of those sites.

Max_Terrible said:
Are you kidding? The internet is full of official Microsoft statements. Just a simple Google search will very likely link you to all of those sites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually u should read my post below this one..

imauser said:
actually u should read my post below this one..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry man. Sometimes I tend to just read posts and not check whom made the post. My bad

Max_Terrible said:
Sorry man. Sometimes I tend to just read posts and not check whom made the post. My bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats alright friend
but the thing is really frustrating that MS does this to its loyal clients..
plus they said they do it to offer a better experience of using WP7..this is dam ridicules..I mean alright..for better exp new phones based on WP7 should have only 3 buttons..but Y it should mean that sum recent WM 6.5 phone be out of game..
personally Im cool with WM..this is a great OS(especially on Leo)..the only problem..that we aint gettin no new content(the most important for me is decent games)..

I *think* i read somewhere that MS was going to use both OS's. 7 for the ooooo and aahhh factor and 6.5 for the more business oriented side of it because the 7 series supposedly won't run any application from the previous generation.
Waiting game.

yes, that IS what they SAID, but their actions proved otherwise IMHO when they removed smart-device development from VS2010.
This is like them saying "we still support windows XP for the business user but have decided to withdraw XP-compatible app development from all of our coding products"

So I'm curious. I keep hearing that Microsoft made the announcement that the HD2 won't be getting WP7 upgrades, but does that mean that xda developers can't hack the ROM to work with WP7? I guess my question is whether the HD2 meets the minimum system requirements of WP7. The ones that I saw only left a few things in question.
For example, I know that the HD2 is multi-touch capable but the WP7 requirements stated that it needed to be capable of four simultaneous points of contact. Can the HD2 do more than two?
Also, the WP7 requirements spoke of something like 8GB of a storage capacity, which even the US version only has 1GB. Does the MicroSD not count?

travis.garrison said:
So I'm curious. I keep hearing that Microsoft made the announcement that the HD2 won't be getting WP7 upgrades, but does that mean that xda developers can't hack the ROM to work with WP7? I guess my question is whether the HD2 meets the minimum system requirements of WP7. The ones that I saw only left a few things in question.
For example, I know that the HD2 is multi-touch capable but the WP7 requirements stated that it needed to be capable of four simultaneous points of contact. Can the HD2 do more than two?
Also, the WP7 requirements spoke of something like 8GB of a storage capacity, which even the US version only has 1GB. Does the MicroSD not count?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dun worry, the chefs at XDA are notorious for making ROMs not made for that particular device.

travis.garrison said:
I know that the HD2 is multi-touch capable but the WP7 requirements stated that it needed to be capable of four simultaneous points of contact. Can the HD2 do more than two?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know this 100% for sure, but AFAIK the screen on the HD2 is capable of true multi-touch, as in - as many fingers as you can fit on it. The reason it's only currently capable of 2 point touch is because there aren't drivers available to handle more. The drivers that are currently available were adapated from the HTC drivers, which don't handle full multi-touch - just 2 point touch.

you can donate for WP7 porting for HD2 if you want:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=684346

There is one definitive reason, and one stupid reason the HD 2 won't be getting Windows Phone 7.
And it won't get it, officially. If Da_G manages to do it (and I have full faith in him that if it's possible, he'll make it so), it'll still be buggy as hell.
The Stupid = Too many buttons.
Yeah, it's bad. But MS has made a commitment to be standardized across it's platform, and I can't knock that. That's a really good idea. And besides, HTC has shown time and time again that it would rather just release a new phone with upgraded software, than stick to a device and provide it regular updates.
The Realistic = No hardware scaler on the graphics board.
One of the key ways that the Xbox and the WinPhone7 are going to be able to play the same games is by utilitzing a hardware scaler instead of processing the resolution difference sperately. I doubt the HD2 has one of those.

What does Android have that WP7 doesn't?

OK seriously, not trolling, not looking for an argument. I'd just like to legitimately know what I'm missing out by using a WP7 device as my primary phone over an Android handset (or even an iOS one if anyone wants to touch on that). Like what software features I'm missing out on, etc.
My Omnia 7 is the first smart phone I bought for myself, and the first one I've used for an extended period of time. I'm not far off being able to upgrade my handset and I'd really like to hear from some people who've used both. Or if anyone can point me to an article that gives a blow by blow feature set comparison of ICS and WP7.5, that'd be cool too. Also "must have" apps that WP7 lacks.

The good thing is that wp7 going very fast and fluid, which have 2 cores android but not anywhere near equal, Greetings

Demaar said:
OK seriously, not trolling, not looking for an argument. I'd just like to legitimately know what I'm missing out by using a WP7 device as my primary phone over an Android handset (or even an iOS one if anyone wants to touch on that). Like what software features I'm missing out on, etc.
My Omnia 7 is the first smart phone I bought for myself, and the first one I've used for an extended period of time. I'm not far off being able to upgrade my handset and I'd really like to hear from some people who've used both. Or if anyone can point me to an article that gives a blow by blow feature set comparison of ICS and WP7.5, that'd be cool too. Also "must have" apps that WP7 lacks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way things stand right NOW, Android and iOS have more apps to offer and more functionality. That's a given and there's no need to debate the point. However, what you need and what I need are probably worlds apart. What I'm missing in WP7 is not being missed because neither Android or iOS offer it either. That being said, the functionality I really need hasn't been around since Windows Mobile 6.1 and that is a sad statement.

Bugs.
xD
And tons of apps I guess.

A decent kernel, a decent multitask, decent apps, tons of developers, market share, bugs, fragmentation. You feel the difference when youneed to multitask mainly when it comes about chat apps, like Kik and WhatsApp. The WP7 multitasking is awful ;/
You receive the message, hold the back, reopen the same instance of the app, and the message doesnt show up. So you need to close the app and open again to see it.
I love the whole OS but the mulstitask. Otherwise, Android sucks so bad.

Hmm.. Android
- always gives you a choice!
- allows you to open, save any file you want
- allows you to send any file via e-mail not only picture (sic!)
- allows you to use USSD codes and menus (WP supports only one way USSD queries) (to explain USSD are codes that are "dialed" to check balance, activate services and so on)
- allows you to send files over bluetooth and connect to devices like GPS and other that require serial port profile
- is extensible - consider "share this" functionality.. on android every application can register itself to handle specific type of actions - so if you decide to share a link to currently browsed page you can perform "share" action and you will be given a choice of any app that is installed. in WP you can only use services that Microsoft has implemented (only pictures can be shared by any app)
- can open any file or url with specific app - app can register to handle specific file types or url schemes - so if you navigate to something that begins with http://youtube... you are given a choice whether you want to open this in browser or with youtube app.. or whaterver is installed
- supports single sign on - note that if you use google apps like google reader, gmail, g+ you define your google account only once. In WP you have to provide credentials to every app (like skydrive - by microsoft - it requires to provide live credentials despite the fact that you have already set up your live account in system settings) stupid and unconvenient
- has much better apps and cheaper! in my opinion most of apps in WP marketplace are crap... (early days?)
- sometimes is screwed by manufacturers (like somsung with its ugly touchwizz)...
- fully supports mms
- works out of box, but if feel advanced allows you to tune it
- isn't always so smooth... but hey.. depends on the app - there are many WP7 apps that aren't so smooth as the "main" UI.... it is not the platform!!! it is developers that are responsible for writing it right!
- real multi tasking - real background services with no weird restrictions like in WP7 (they say its because of battery/performance reasons - bull****... see below).
- decent api that allows to create usefull apps
- ...
I'm using lumia 800 for a month now.. and can't wait till i get my HTC One S and will be back to android (was using nexus s).
And one thing.. as for lumia 800. Even with newest firmware this thing SUCKS as it goes to batter life.. 18h this is the max what i managed to get having 3 push email accounts, twitter and facebook (+facebook chat). This is crap... really.
With nexus s I can get 36h+ with no problems.
If you have any further questions - ask.

Multitasking that doesn't suck

We don't have bugs, few of us have short battery life, (my gs2 lasted less than an hour), we don't have lag, we don't have a virus-riddled marketplace, did I mention lag?

mikeeam said:
A decent kernel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whole new Kernel coming in <1 yr.
emdzej said:
- allows you to send files over bluetooth and connect to devices like GPS and other that require serial port profile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why connect your phone to a GPS when it already comes with a FREE GPS app and maps of the entire world? It's less clutter to just use one device.
Demaar said:
What does Android have that WP7 doesn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use andriod but I checked it out before purchasing my Lumia 900. The obvious difference is Windows Phone is missing Apps. The other thing is apparently multitasking is currently better on Andriod.
Of course with Windows Phone you miss out on this...
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sitizenx said:
Whole new Kernel coming in <1 yr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still we don't know if current devices are upgradable.
sitizenx said:
Why connect your phone to a GPS when it already comes with a FREE GPS app and maps of the entire world? It's less clutter to just use one device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was just an example, there are a lot of devices that can be connected via bluetooth. Maybe this is not common but to give you example: lego mindstorms nxt
sitizenx said:
Of course with Windows Phone you miss out on this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep... and with Tango and restrictions for 256MB devices, possible WP8 not for current devices it will begin to be the same with WP... sadly
In general.. it depends what you use your phone for and what you expect.
In my opinion WP is perfect for someone that just uses it call, text, share photos on facebook, but it lacks serious features, and it's API... gosh... it is so limited.
If everyone could use interop, not only "trusted" partners. This could change everything.
I really like WP... but it is not that kind of device I need to use every day.
3rd party apps can not integrate with the phone. I know that Microsoft dosn't want to promote google.. but wouldn't it be nice if someone could write an app that would provide google talk integration in message hub?
I need VOIP... real one, not some ****ty skype that dosn't run in the background, but real SIP. No luck.
WP reminds me times when phones had their own "OS" (not symbian) and apps were j2me...

I don't know your particular needs and what you may be missing as a result, but I can tell you that Office integration via SkyDrive is pretty sweet. Now that SD has a desktop client that syncs a folder (like Dropbox but 7GB for free), I can manage my simple spreadsheets from my phone. I'm in the process now of moving some trackings that I did on paper at a few stores to excel files that I can manage on my phone as needed, or from my computer. This is very handy as far as I'm concerned.
There's a lot to lose going to WP7, depending on your needs, but a lot to gain as well. WP7 makes the perfect "starter" smart phone. I like to geek out on my phones, like any Fandroid, but WP7 just makes me happy to use. I think it's the scrolling.
Good luck in whatever you decide!

Is there a comic book reader yet?
Also its not just the missing apps, the apps that are available are missing key features ie Game Time is missing the stream live games feature. Score Center doesnt have the Watch app to go with it.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

emdzej said:
In general.. it depends what you use your phone for and what you expect.
In my opinion WP is perfect for someone that just uses it call, text, share photos on facebook, but it lacks serious features, and it's API... gosh... it is so limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? That's all Windows Phone is good for? What about the FREE GPS app that comes with every Lumia 900 with up to date downloadable maps? That one app is worth far more to me than 100,000 Andriod apps.
I use adobe reader, amazon kindle, a weather app, ebay, whatsapp, check three different email accounts and surf the web on my LTE phone. That's a pretty robust experience. The only thing that really irks me is the lack of good multitasking with whatsapp. I use skype for video calls and it works fine. I have unlimited mobile to mobile minutes so I can call anyone for free in the United States so there is little need for a VOIP service.
---------- Post added at 04:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------
vetvito said:
Is there a comic book reader yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may find this hard to believe but I haven't checked.

pillsburydoughman said:
Multitasking that doesn't suck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The funny thing is, I wish the multitasking on my Transformer was more like WP7 with saving the state.
To each their own...

Android has free GPS navigation, it's called Google Maps
Android is open source, so you can see how your phone is running (WP7 does not run on open source).
Android has a much larger development community.
Chevron can't touch our unlocked phones.
Live tiles, while cool, are extremely restrictive. If you don't want Metro UI then you're screwed. In Android, you can run iOS style if you want, or Metro UI or Android UI...your choice.
That's off the top of my head. Windows Phones are fine for people who only want a smartphone for the sake of saying they own a smartphone (much the same demographic as iOS). However, for serious tech enthusiasts and people who just want more out of their device, Android is the way to go.

sitizenx said:
[/COLOR]
You may find this hard to believe but I haven't checked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
To the one mentioning bluetooth file transfer, come on man its 2012. Wifi direct is far superior.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

PoorCollegeGuy said:
Android has free GPS navigation, it's called Google Maps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately as I understand it you can't download whole states or countries to use offline. Big limitation.
PoorCollegeGuy said:
Android is open source, so you can see how your phone is running (WP7 does not run on open source).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Average user doesn't care. As long as my phone works I have no desire to "see how your phone is running." I also never lift the hood of my car.
PoorCollegeGuy said:
Android has a much larger development community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither I nor the majority of users care. As long as we get the apps we need we are happy.
PoorCollegeGuy said:
Chevron can't touch our unlocked phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most phone users don't know what Chevron is or what a developer unlocked phone is.
PoorCollegeGuy said:
Live tiles, while cool, are extremely restrictive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most users don't care. As long as they do their jobs well I don't even notice them.
PoorCollegeGuy said:
If you don't want Metro UI then you're screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't like Metro then you also don't own a Windows Phone.
PoorCollegeGuy said:
Windows Phones are fine for people who only want a smartphone for the sake of saying they own a smartphone (much the same demographic as iOS). However, for serious tech enthusiasts and people who just want more out of their device, Android is the way to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For 99.9% of us it's a phone. It's not an item to gain techy bragging rights. My Lumia 900 is faster on wireless internet than 99% of Andriod phones out there. So Andriod owners can sit around talking about the number of cores in their phones and meanwhile I'm getting my work done and I'm on my way.

What I have noticed is the lack of apps. Also the lack of phones. The lack of developers. Multitasking is a joke.
What wp7 has that's good? UI, smooth system, its always vanilla (as it should be)
When talking about wp7 vs android vs IPhone android is the the clear winner. Followed by wp7 and iPhone. My first smartphone was an iPhone, then I went to wp7, then android, then iPhone and now I'm android for life.
But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the Metro UI on my Galaxy Note...
I also run a zune themed music player, wp7 email, and more.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

Orange_furball said:
What I have noticed is the lack of apps. Also the lack of phones. The lack of developers. Multitasking is a joke.
What wp7 has that's good? UI, smooth system, its always vanilla (as it should be)
When talking about wp7 vs android vs IPhone android is the the clear winner. Followed by wp7 and iPhone. My first smartphone was an iPhone, then I went to wp7, then android, then iPhone and now I'm android for life.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats a bold statement. Maybe a tattoo of 'Android for Life' to prove your allegiance? ;p

sitizenx said:
Unfortunately as I understand it you can't download whole states or countries to use offline. Big limitation.
Yes you can, there's guides for it.
Average user doesn't care. As long as my phone works I have no desire to "see how your phone is running." I also never lift the hood of my car.
If you'd read my statement at the bottom, I said WP7 was fine for the "average user who just wants a smartphone for the sake of owning a smartphone". This covers your comment here.
Neither I nor the majority of users care. As long as we get the apps we need we are happy.
I would very much like to see where the majority of users agreed to have you as a spokesman. If you didn't care about that stuff, then why are you on XDA Developers? The point of this website is the aftermarket development of devices. This is where people go when they care about development. The setting this conversation is taking place in directly contradicts your opinion here.
Most phone users don't know what Chevron is or what a developer unlocked phone is.
And that's ultimately why WP7 will forever be inferior to Android in the world of unlocking and rooting.
Most users don't care. As long as they do their jobs well I don't even notice them.
Once again I'd love to see the thread, article, tweet, etc that shows the whole world is behind you on this. One of the biggest and most talked about features on Android are the customizable widgets and making your phone look how you want it. With WP7, you can't do that. You're stuck with tiles whether you like them or not.
If you don't like Metro then you also don't own a Windows Phone.
That's exactly what I said but I meant more as in "even if I liked the features of WP7 over the features of Android, the restrictions of the UI itself may prevent me from getting one". The UI holds the phone back a whole bunch because not everyone likes it. If you don't like your Android UI, you can change it to match a phone you enjoy the UI of more. This gives it mass commercial appeal for both rooted and non rooted users. You are vastly (and I mean vastly) underestimating the impact of customization. If Android wants Metro UI, well as you can see with Orange_furball's post above, you can have it. If you want Android theme or iOS theme on your WP7, then you have to go out and buy one of those devices. It's bass ackwards.
For 99.9% of us it's a phone. It's not an item to gain techy bragging rights. My Lumia 900 is faster on wireless internet than 99% of Andriod phones out there. So Andriod owners can sit around talking about the number of cores in their phones and meanwhile I'm getting my work done and I'm on my way.
Once more, I would like to see your statistics where you can confidently speak for the entire user base. I'd also like to see your statistics where you can speak for 99% of Android phones and their WiFi performance. I'd also like to see your credentials to speak for the Android community as a whole. You seem to be taking a lot of liberties with the opinions of people who have never met you. That doesn't help your argument at all as I will only listen to the opinions of those people, not their opinions as assumed by you.
But for the sake of argument, go check out the OS mobile market shares and you'll find that WP7 is under 10% (I believe even under 5%). So even if you were speaking for "everyone" with WP7, you're still not speaking for the other 95%+ that own a cell phone worldwide.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Answers are in red.

w p 7.5 thoughts

Hello friends, this is my first post, just thought I'd share a few thoughts about my HTC titan. Coming from an android device (HTC desire running 2.2 froyo) , was immediately impressed by the smoothness and ease of use, and the huge screen is a revelation! I used to have an xda Orbit 2 (running windows mobile 6.1) and there is no comparison, so much better in every way. The android phone scores better than windows phones in that it is so customizable, but I found myself playing with the settings for hours on end without actually using it! A few times I have swapped back to my Desire, but never for long- what I thought was a smooth browsing experience was very jerky, and the flash player didn't help, slowing the phone down whilst loading numerous adverts on each webpage. After a while I found myself getting bored with the metro start screen, and can't wait for the 7.8 update with a busier screen. Android has thousands of apps, 95% of which are garbage. I find I only need a few good apps on my titan- a good you tube app, picasa app being the most important ( I like to upload my pictures an videos to the cloud where they are safe) . I had an issue with outgoing call quality on my titan- my voice was muffled, the answer was to tape over the noise cancelling mike on top of the phone. Also be careful with the case you use- any with metal in them seem to kill the reception. Now I use a rubberized case, my previous leather one (with aluminium stiffening) and my plastic case (with aluminium stuck on the back) are now gathering dust upstairs! Overall, I love this o.s., it may not be as flashy as some, but works. As an aside, I bought the Mugen 1950 ma battery, and the phone lasts two and a half days easily with moderate use- I bought a Mugen 3200 ma battery for my desire, and it only lasts two days!

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Hi++
so you switched to WINDOWS PHONE , congratulation and Welcome to your new community !
and here is HTC titan 7.8 roms :
Sianto Edition AL
EB Edition V2.6
++ HTC TITAN unlocking and SPL guide-1
HTC TITAN unlocking and SPL guide-2
Have fun !!

Hey, thanks for welcoming me Spider-7. And thanks for link to all those roms. I should say tho that I've never flashed a rom to any of my phones, they are all totally stock. I do enjoy the xda site for all its useful info, like tips and tricks, accessories etc. Yes, went from windows mobile to android and back to windows again, windows seems like a professional platform to me. I'll wait for the official update for 7.8 to come, whenever that may be!

markpab said:
Hey, thanks for welcoming me Spider-7. And thanks for link to all those roms. I should say tho that I've never flashed a rom to any of my phones, they are all totally stock. I do enjoy the xda site for all its useful info, like tips and tricks, accessories etc. Yes, went from windows mobile to android and back to windows again, windows seems like a professional platform to me. I'll wait for the official update for 7.8 to come, whenever that may be!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to WP7 and soon 7.8 have fun

Thanks Dinchy87. Didn't know I'd been a member since 2008- must've joined when I had my windows mobile! Only took me nearly 4 years for my first post!

Welcome
I would recomend checking out the Skydrive App if you are into Cloud backup, It can be used for totaly automatic backup of photos
Mark

Thanks for the tip, but I read somewhere that the photos are uploaded in a lower resolution, don't know if this is right.

Welcome! The Titan is a nice device. I rock a Focus S but I have a Titan too I got repaired for a friend. Both solid units. Some apps to get: Board Express Pro (it runs a bit better on WP than the WP version of the XDA app), Amazing Weather/Weatherflow, Ask Ziggy, Amazon, Gleek! (if you're into Twitter), LinkedIn, Metrotibe, Daily Wallpaper, TurboCam, Photosynth and WPCentral.
Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 AM ----------
I meant Metrotube (for YouTube videos)
Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

Hello! Yes, I like the titan very much, just the call quality issues that spoilt it at first. I have the super tube app for watching you tube videos, and is pretty good. Who needs flash!

Just last night I purchased the surf cube browser after using the trial first, and it seems good. More features on the u.i. than internet explorer, you can swipe for favourites or use an onscreen joystick. Tried uc browser too, but was disappointed. Uc was available on android, and was pretty quick. Earlier on I was reading a review of the new Nokia lumia 920. I'm not sure that windows 8 is much of an improvement over 7.5/7.8. Seems more of a refinement than a major step forward. I can't upgrade for 6 months, and I'm not sure that I would. I'm sure everything will run a little quicker with the dual core CPU, and you need that to shoot 1080p videos, but I may wait till windows 9 is out, till the difference in performance is really noticable. Just my thoughts.

For you since you are new to the platform, 7.5 to 7.8 will do just fine. I'd either wait to see what gets put out in the spring before you upgrade, of if you get a lumia 920 on the cheap, then take it. Supertube is a fine app too
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Oh yes, I'd say the 920 is a superb phone for sure. And as time goes on I suppose windows 8 will improve on windows 7 series in one big way- the apps. I just hope that the developers who design apps for 8 will also do the same apps for 7. Though will that be more difficult than it sounds since the o.s. Kernels are different? Forgive me if I'm wrong, these are things I've picked up looking thru xda and WP central forums- and I'm no developer!

markpab said:
Oh yes, I'd say the 920 is a superb phone for sure. And as time goes on I suppose windows 8 will improve on windows 7 series in one big way- the apps. I just hope that the developers who design apps for 8 will also do the same apps for 7. Though will that be more difficult than it sounds since the o.s. Kernels are different? Forgive me if I'm wrong, these are things I've picked up looking thru xda and WP central forums- and I'm no developer!
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it wouldn't be so hard if they developed For the 7.x platform as 8.x supports both, but it would mean some features would not be available. If they develops for 8 first and use 8 only functions then they will have to re do it for it to work on 7 costing more time and money. Logically any developer should aim to target 7.x to gain the widest possible user base. Games maybe the exception here but in an ideal world, shouldn't be, it would mean not having cutting edge wp8 game tho which isn't ideal from a selling point of view
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dazza9075 said:
it wouldn't be so hard if they developed For the 7.x platform as 8.x supports both, but it would mean some features would not be available. If they develops for 8 first and use 8 only functions then they will have to re do it for it to work on 7 costing more time and money. Logically any developer should aim to target 7.x to gain the widest possible user base. Games maybe the exception here but in an ideal world, shouldn't be, it would mean not having cutting edge wp8 game tho which isn't ideal from a selling point of view
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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That's the thing. Ideally as a dev you code for both, and that's what I've been telling a close friend who wants to get in on WP. But because the market for WP7 was relatively small, if the first wave for WP8 are a smash hit then most will not code for WP7. Devs are in a tricky spot in that if Gen 1 WP 8 doesn't sell, they may be forced to code for Windows 8 only before they come back fully to the WP platform.
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Is it correct that 7.8 devices will still be made and sold alongside wp8 devices? If so, app developers would be encouraged to develop for both platforms.

markpab said:
Is it correct that 7.8 devices will still be made and sold alongside wp8 devices? If so, app developers would be encouraged to develop for both platforms.
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well I thought so, I have no proof but im sure I read somewhere that 7.8 effectively becomes the low end parts

dazza9075 said:
well I thought so, I have no proof but im sure I read somewhere that 7.8 effectively becomes the low end parts
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That's exactly what will happen. Nokia's 510 that was recently announced is now the poster child of that. It still is a good idea for devs to code for both, but we will see it they will...
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The more I use my titan, the more impressed I am with it. Lets hope apps keep being developed so these devices can only keep getting better.

markpab said:
The more I use my titan, the more impressed I am with it. Lets hope apps keep being developed so these devices can only keep getting better.
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I'm glad you dig the Titan. I've always loved some of the HTC unibody designs, so it is cool for me own one, even though I plan to use it as a backup phone. . Support really depends on how much stuff from WP8 gets ported into 7.8. If there are enough new features, it will hold some over until Gen2 WP8, or WP9.
My issue with HTC over the last few years is that they're releasing too many devices with that "one thing missing" to not make them popular, or releasing the right device a few months later , when the market's moved on. Adding the ****ty aftermarket (comparative to Nokia) and non hacker friendly (comparative to Samsung) support, they cannot help but bleed money...
Sorry for the rant.... The Titan is an excellent Gen 2 WP 7 phone. Let's see what HTC does with its successor...
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Oh yes, onwards and upwards! I'm glad that WP hasn't gone the way of android with a new o.s. Upgrade every 6 months- you no sooner get your jellybean powered phone than the rumours start of the new upgraded system with amazing multitasking features , which render your phone obsolete (a friend at work has a Samsung s3 with picture in picture capability, so he can continue watching whatever while he plays with his start screen- wtf! ) no wonder quad core cpu's are so necessary! An excellent improvement for the next upgrade would be an external battery so you don't need to take the back off the phone when the damn thing freezes up! I would call this the Cadbury's chocolate bar upgrade! I don't mean to knock android, but my stock 2.2 desire used to freeze up regularly for no reason at all, and my Titan hasn't frozen once in 6 months. It all comes down to what you like, an if you are happy with whatever phone you have, then I am very happy for you! I can't comment on Apple products, I've never tried one, they really don't interest me. So in short, lets just have upgrades to the o.s. when there is something usefully added, or leave them as they are. P.s. Thanks for the thanks Trappxl!